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Welcome to The Point. We’ve got some excellent points for you guys today. Rob Delaney is
a comedian. He’s got a point about feminism and misogyny so drama. We’ll talk about
that. And Miss California contestant Mollie Thomas, the first openly lesbian woman to
compete in that contest. Well among the first because there’s someone else in that contest
as well. She has a point she sent in about her competing there. And then our third point
is about Chris Brown and whether he should be allowed to perform at the Grammys. Had
he done his penance in a matter of speaking. Now we’ve got a great panel for you as well.
Kelly Carlin is the host of the Kelly Carlin show which is unsurprising I suppose on Sirius
satellite radio which by the way is where the Young Turks got their start. Oh fantastic.
Right. Also a filmmaker and speaking of filmmaker, producer and director Andrea Meyerson who
is from Stand Out Productions. Great to have you here. Thank you. And James Golden whose
a journalist, poet, and the author of Afro Clouds and *** Rain which is up for a NAACP
Image award. So excited. Alright. Just before we start can I ask you what an afro cloud
is? The imagery of an afro cloud is just celebration of being a black man and just everything that
I wanted to put into this work of art. I feel like I wanna float on an afro cloud. That
sounds fun. It’s a beautiful place to be. Ok. Alright. So now our first point sent in
by Rob Delaney and it’s a fascinating one. Let’s watch. Hi. I’m Rob Delaney and I’m
a comedian and my point is sexism and misogyny are the worst thing in the world. I went with
my wife recently to the museum of tolerance in Los Angeles. They had a room that just
talked about how awful and systemic sexism and misogyny and just awful anti-women stuff
is happening every second around the whole globe with every culture, country, color,
creed. It just doesn’t matter. And I was I kinda had an ah hah kind of moment. I just
realized I was like aw man. Women are a little more than a half of our population on the
whole planet and so many structures exist to just keep them down and hurt them and do
the worst things to them. And I realized like ok so with racism, you can have people who
aren’t racist but are still misogynist. I suppose you could have the opposite but
it seems to me, and this is my non professional opinion, that sexism and misogyny are endemic
to every culture. And so if we’re can root them out, if we could root that out of like
every culture, everything gradually you know across the world. It’d be great if it could
happen instantly. That literally every other issue we have would improve. And plus like
men and women are two wings of the same bird so if we’re treating women awfully then
the planet can’t function. And so cultures and people and systems treat women as second
class or like fifth class citizens. It must stop and I think that we can either stop it
together and have our world flourish or let it continue and the world will be a toilet.
And things that are bad will get worse. Perhaps the greatest most wide reaching political
thing that you could do for your planet is to be kind and sensitive and loving to the
women in your own life. Alright Kelly. I’m gonna start with you. I liked that he had
an ah ha moment where he’s like you know what. Men suck. We’ve been really crappy
to women for a long time. And of course not all of us. But is he right in the central
idea that hey you know what? If we can just get beyond that, we’d solve so many other
problems? Well you know I was thinking about this. Like the big problems in the planet.
The really big ones are like war, poverty, and the environmental destruction. And I think
all of those have to do with a relationship with power. Like how we relate to our own
power, power over things. And I think part of the problem is that men and women, we all
have our own relationship with power. And I think a lot of this has to do with the domineering
of one class of citizen over another. So I’d be willing to give it a try. Sure. Ok but
Andrea, here’s the thing. As you look at how things are developing now, women are actually
kicking men’s *** in education. I mean they’re taking them to school. Ok. Literally. I didn’t
even intend that. I’ll be here all night. Don’t forget to tip your waiters and waitresses.
Anyway. But of course that doesn’t mean that solved the problem and then as before
they have babies, they’re actually on par or doing better than men in their careers
as well. Talking whole here. But they run into a wall at some point. Even thought they’re
50.6 percent of management and professional related occupations, they’re only 2.4 percent
of fortune five hundred CEOs. And do you think it’s mainly because of the baby track. No,
I don’t think it’s mainly because of that. I think that certainly doesn’t work in their
favor. It takes two to have a baby but it all falls on the woman and so that just automatically
pets them like, oh they’re not gonna be the best candidate for the job. But that isn’t.
Some women don’t have kids and they still don’t make it to that level. It’s still
that oppression you know. Is it as simple as that? You know the main reason why they
still have the glass ceiling is simply oppression. It think it is. I think there’s still that
inequity. And even when they make it by the way, they don’t make as much money as their
male counterparts. They still don’t. So James what do you think here? I mean is it
incumbent upon men more than anything else to change this because we’re in a position
where we have more quote unquote credibility. Unfortunately other men like uh yea of course.
Women. yea. They want more this and they want more that. So do we have to take the lead
here in some sense? Or do we have a responsibility to take the lead? We’d put it that way.
Well absolutely. I mean there’s so many different facets to this level within the
feminism experience. And I think that one of the biggest things is that we as men have
to take charge of certain aspects of it. Because we have caused so much issues for women within
our country. And then specifically looking at the history of patriarchy, there has to
be a voice from men that resonates in order for us to reach out to other men. Because
of course, us guys. We’re gonna listen to guys before we listen to girls. I mean that’s
part of the problem and that’s why we’ve gotta work to get beyond that. But look, let
me throw out some be a little bit of a devil’s advocate here. When a lot of guys I know that
watch the Young Turks, when we cover issues like the celebrity divorces. And you see Tiger
Woods’s wife getting fifty percent, they’re like why is she getting fifty percent? What’s
with the equality there? Tiger Woods is the guy who was golfing. Now yea he cheated on
her like crazy but they feel like it’s equality run amuck. Go. Well she’s got the kids.
She’s gonna take the kids and she’s gonna raise these kids. So she needs the money to
do that first of all. And if, I don’t know what her career track is or what she wants
to do but I think that’s part of it. And yes I think probably the divorce laws are
based on more traditional idea of marriage you know from the earlier part of the century.
But I’m guessing if a really really really rich woman gets a divorce from a husband,
the husband gets fifty percent so. And it does work that way. Tom Arnold. Case and point.
Exactly. Also, when she’s at home having. They get married under the context that he
is a professional athlete and she’s home raising the kids so whatever she wanted to
be, that was kind of killed. Right. Unless they decided to raise their kids by nannies.
But that I’m not buying because. Or she made a choice to not do one. But that was
a mutual agreement if that’s how. How knows. I wasn’t in the room. Right. I don’t know
what they decided when they got married and had kids. But see but marriage used to be
an economic business agreement. I mean that’s what marriage was. And so I think this kind
of represents still the echo of that in our culture. And James, guys. If we are championing
women’s rights etc., is part of the problem that other guys are like uh huh. Yea. Right.
Whipped you know. Oh yea. I bet you’re for women. Is that a problem, this sense of wimpyness
etc. Well it’s part of male patriarchy and needing to define what gender roles are so
for a lot of men we consider being masculine and having that certain machismo as part of
being a man. And so you cannot support women’s rights unless you’re effeminate or you’re
not a manly man. And so it does take men to actually go against what has been traditionally
thought of. Which is so important because if we all sat back and said you know what,
AIDS and *** doesn’t affect me so why should I do anything to help the cause? Or poverty
or you know whatever. Homeless issues. That doesn’t affect us but it really does affect
us. So if we don’t take a stand for all of these things and work together united,
you know work together as one people really, I know that sounds a little, but I welcome
men to take a stance for us. The only show I had with Robsing he was like you know it’s
a little bit kind of a dream in some ways. Like oh. We’ll just spread this the news
that men have to be. And you know we’re really talking about progressive men who are
willing to be a part of the solution. Who have a different point of view. Who are more
post modern in their thinking. Traditional men and traditional cultures, it’s a very
different relationship with women. And how do you bring our progressive post modern point
of view to these other cultures? I mean we see it happening all the time with us butting
our business into other people’s cultures. We know how well that goes. Let me ask you
a follow up on that. Look, you’re father’s George Carlin and so he used to speak about
this power dynamic within his comedy all the time. And I got a sense from him that it was
almost like a little defeatist. Like what are we gonna do? Bunch of guys around the
world. We’re all screwed right. And you think you vote and you think you have an effect
etc. No. They get together in a room and they decide and you’re all hosed. Is that true
for women too? What do you think his sense of it was? What’s your sense of it? I think
my dad had a very particular point of view. And plus he heightened it for theatrical reasons
to make a point. But he was a broken hearted idealist. Absolutely. He believed in all of
these ideas. But he also believed that there were these kind of owners. And when you talked
about the disparity between managers versus the board room of women, you know. Those are
the owners of America. Right right exactly. And that’s a club of basically white males
for the most part. And they’re not inviting people in. Look at the ninety nine percent
movement. It’s all about that. But I have a different point of view. I believe that
we can make a change. I mean look at the last hundred years. Change has happened even inside
this screwed up system. Yea. I’m more of an optimist. I’m with you on that actually.
And it’s not that be doesn’t have a great point. He does. And you know like affirmative
action for example. A lot of times people don’t get it. It’s like well the guy,
the plumber or the fireman or whatever. He wants to give his job to his son. So he’s
like why are these Black people coming in and taking my son’s job? And it’s the
same in the board rooms. They’re like we’re used to having this. Why are these women coming
in here and butting into our business? Yes. But let me throw in one last wild card into
there. Sometimes I get in trouble with the audience even though I’m supposed to be
super lib because I talk about how hot women are. And I’m like ah she’s hot. And is
it ok to in certain circumstances to say hey you know what? I’m sexualizing that woman
because I think she’s hot. Ok but it doesn’t mean I sexualize all women. It’s not like
I’m sitting there going ah Hillary Clinton. Ah Madeleine Albright you know. Is that permissible
or no? Are you sexualizing her or are you just noticing that she’s hot? I think it’s
ok to, I think people are hot. I don’t think that’s sexualizing them. You could admire
one’s beauty. But it’s different. I mean like if you’re in a corporate meeting and
you’re like wow. She’s got really nice you know. That’s not ok. That’s sexualizing.
That’s why you hired her because she’s got nice knockers. Well that would be a problem.
There’s a line there. It’s like it’s ok to admire one’s beauty and be attracted
to somebody and notice that. It’s fine. It’s not ok to make a sex object out of
them. It’s very different. What just what tends to happen in our society in general
is we like to objectify women and look at them for what they have rather than what they
have underneath their heads. And so for a lot of especially music artists, they’re
objectified. Rather than seen as talented individuals beyond their sexuality or beyond.
You know. Their beautiful figure. Which perpetuates the problem by the way. Which continues to
perpetuate the inequities. I guess my last point on that would be that look. It depends
on the context right. So if you’re at a bar and you say to your buddy hey look. She’s
really hot. That doesn’t necessarily say anything about that woman other than the fact
that that’s the context that you’re in. But if you’re in a board room or you’re
in politics and you’re like oh. What do you think about her policy proposal and you’re
like I don’t know. She’s hot. Ok. Then you’ve got issues. I think you’re in the
wrong place. You know. It’s very different if you’re at a bar and people are looking
to meet other people. And if you’re at any kind of a work place it’s just really not
cool. Like any kind of professional setting. We’re all agreed on that. But speaking of
hot, when we come back. The first openly lesbian Miss California pageant contestant. And boy
is she hot.
Back on The Point. We now have a point sent in by Miss California USA beauty pageant contestant
Mollie Thomas. She is openly lesbian and she decided to compete in that manner. Was that
the right thing to do? Let’s watch. Hey. Thanks for having me on The Point. I’m Mollie
Thomas. I was recently the first openly gay woman to run for Miss California USA. By running
I made some waves and really challenged the stereotypes of not only beauty pageants but
also *** orientation. When I initially decided to run, the question was never whether
or not I was gonna run openly. That was never an option. The question was whether or not
I was gonna run at all. I’m proud of who I am. I’m comfortable in my own skin. And
I don’t believe that it’s ever necessary to put on a facade. So I decided to run openly
and I’m so happy with that decision. I went in there really to push the boundaries and
to say look. You can be a strong and attractive and feminine woman and be a lesbian and there’s
nothing wrong with that. Ultimately I’m trying to promote visibility and acceptance
of diversity. And let people know that it’s ok to be comfortable in your own skin and
to be proud of who you are and really just embrace who you are down to your core. It
doesn’t matter what color or size or shape or gender or *** orientation you were born.
Because beauty comes from what you do with it. Not what you look like or who you love.
And I think that’s a really really important message to get across and at the end of the
day, that’s why I ran. You can follow my campaign at mollie thomas or MissCA.com. Thanks.
Alright. Andrea I’m gonna start with you. You are openly lesbian as well. O no I wasn’t.
Is that right? Damn it. WIsh somebody had told me that. I am now. Well you are now.
So is this a good thing for the lesbian community, the LGBT community to have a woman run in
a beauty pageant. Is that a positive step? You know what. It’s not a good thing. It’s
not a bad thing. I mean, I really think that if somebody wants to run in a beauty contest.
You know, heterosexuals don’t make a big thing like by the way I’m heterosexual and
I’m running in a beauty. I’m like just be who you are. If that’s what you wanna
do go do it. I think it doesn’t matter. It just doesn’t matter. She’s a beautiful
bright young girl. She aspires to be a beauty queen. Ok. That’s her dream. Everybody gets
their dream and we live in a country where we could pursue that and hopefully conquer
it. So let her have it. I mean I just think the fact that she’s lesbian. I love that
she’s open. I love that she’s out. Like that’s huge because I’m sure there have
been many that have run that have been closeted. So it’s a big step to be able to be out
in anything you do. We shall be honest about that. Does it help? Does it not matter that
she happens to be very attractive? Does that break down stereotypes? I don’t know. Listen,
we live in a society that looks mean a lot and the stereotype of lesbians has been like
you know a little more butch. And we come in you know. Lesbians come in all shapes and
sizes and looks and there’s a lot of us fems and so it doesn’t you know. The package
is a package. But it is great for those people in Iowa. I shouldn’t...those people in.
Iowa has gay marriage. Yes they do. It is legal gay marriage so you couldn’t have
pick a worse example. For those people that are not exposed to the LGBT community that
have an image that all lesbians look butch or whatever they think in their head. Whatever
they conjured up. Because you know. Frankly the media doesn’t always represent us in
the you know. They’ll pick the butchest woman in the crowd and the most flamboyant
man when they wanna cover anything that has to do with. Right. And I think it all helps
to break down barriers because the more people know someone who’s gay they’re like oh.
She’s gay? Oh. Well I’m you know. Huge. It’s huge. I think so too but how about
beauty pageants? Let’s talk about that. Is that acceptable? Unacceptable these days?
Well I mean they’re kind of ridiculous. It’s awkward to watch them. I mean I think
when I started to become more politically active and smart thinking and watch them and
think oh. Now they’re going to put bathing suits on? This is so. Don’t you know how
obviously awkward and weird this is? All in all it’s a strange kind of thing. It’s
like a circus or something you know. You see I don’t know when it happened to me but
I feel the same way now. But you have to understand the context. I’m actually Mr. Jamaica. Not
a lot of people know that but what happened was I was dating a woman and she decided she
was gonna go run for Miss Jamaica cause she’s from Jamaica. And she won. And so she was
Miss Jamaica. And so I call myself Mr. Jamaica. And I remember at the time I was so proud
and I thought it was fantastic. I went down to Miss Universe contest and rather enjoyed
it. But at some point I was like you know. I don’t know when it happened, what year
but I was like they come out in bathing suits. Isn’t that ridiculous? With heels on. With
high heels. Yes. It’s crazy I mean I’ve never been one to think that like wow. Beauty
pageants. I mean I never aspired to do that, not that I could. I never aspired to be that.
Oh I wanna be Miss. Like I don’t get that whole thing but it’s a society thing. I
mean that’s where their value is. That’s where they think their self worth is like
I’m beautiful. I have this body. This is my shell like this is. And you know what?
Our society says like yea you are. We’re gonna make you famous. It feeds into the same
patriarchy we’re talking about which is that women are objects. And so if we’re
in the pageant then of course we’re objectifying you and that’s all we see you as. It’s
interesting that they have interview questions now but I don’t understand why we continue
to allow these types of venues to flourish. Cause they make money. Well at least they
used to. They used to. I don’t think they make as much money as they used to. I mean
Trump lost a lot of money doing Miss USA. Well Trump loses a lot of money in almost
everything he does. So if they ask you to be. We’re gonna determine who the best guy
in California is James and we need you to dress up in a speedo. I don’t know if I’m
ready for a speedo yet. But not. I want it to be based on my intellect and based on what
I have to offer. And I think that Mollie actually has some progressive ideas. And that’s what
makes her placement in this very appropriate. I mean she’s bringing light to issues about
gay suicide and she’s bringing light to issues that concern her community in California.
And it’s just really refreshing to see that. Yea and she’s gone to Thailand and Mongolia
and I think it was Mongolia, and you know all over the world to work on human rights
etc. And there was another lesbian contestant by the way in the same pageant and she went
non traditional. Instead of a bikini wearing a tuxedo etc. So it was interesting choices
but made by both of them. But she’s you know. Yea I believe she’s only nineteen
and she’s so articulate. And I love that we live. I love the progress the LGBT community
has made. That a nineteen year old could feel safe and proud and just be out there who she
is. That’s like huge. That would have never happened in like even like five years ago.
It’s really progressed. But do you remember like however many years ago. Like maybe twenty
years or so when Vanessa Williams was caught in a picture kissing a girl and they stripped
her of the crown. That was a huge thing back then. Now you catch them in that picture,
everybody wins. Vanessa Williams also got really famous back then. But can I ask you
guys, Andrea mainly. Is it permissible for heterosexual men to be turned on by lesbian
women? Or is that like the most annoying thing in the world? O god what a question. Is it
permissible? I mean like we’re not gonna be able to stop that really are we? No I suppose
not. Do we accept it? I mean I really think it depends on the person. We’re all different.
I can’t speak for the entire lesbian community. Of course not. I don’t know. I personally
don’t give a ***. I have straight friends that you know. I’ve been with my girlfriend
and they openly talk about it and I’m like ok whatever. It’s a good thing you’re
my friend because you’re pretty obnoxious. That would be me. Listen. We all know that.
I mean look at ***. I do. So you know when you’re watching girl on girl action. Does
that happen in ***? Occasionally. Ok. I’ve heard. I’ve heard. First of all they’re
not real lesbians cause you could tell by their nails. Got really long fingernails.
Ok. Speaking of stereotypes. It’s true. Well actually I do have some lesbian friends
who have long nails. But I would feel complimented if a woman was attracted to me. A lesbian.
I mean I’m hetero but I would be ok with that. So I think it goes both ways. I used
to live in Miami beach and I don’t know if you guys know this but on South Beach it
turns out there’s a lot of gay guys. Yea I found that out. Woah really? And whenever
a friend of mine came by like we worked out at a gym there that was predominantly gay
etc. Whenever a friend of mine would come by they’d always hit on him. But they never
hit on me and I was like what. What’s wrong with me? And you know traditionally like you
said a lot of men are turned on by a lesbian relationship and they wanna see that in ***
and they’re intrigued by that. But at the same time they’re repulsed by same sex men
relationships. And that is again where we have issues with the way that men think traditionally
in our country. And so I mean it needs to be a balance. It needs to be appropriate.
And that’s exactly right. And I guess my last point is you know. The guys that are
old school. Let’s put it that way. Let’s be kind and say old school. They’re funny
cause they’re like women definitely should not get married. They should only hook up
while I’m watching. That makes no sense. Alright. Now when we come back Chris Brown
is invited back to the Grammys. Is that the right thing to do? Should we give him a pardon?
Is it time for redemption? Find out when we come back on The Point.
We’re back on The Point and for our third discussion today we took the issue of Chris
Brown being back at the Grammys. Of course three years ago they were famously going to
the Grammys with Rihanna when the incident happened where he assaulted her and now he’s
been invited back. So let’s start with you James. Are we ready to pardon him? Is it ok
to have him back? Or is it still unacceptable? Well number one let’s just identify the
irony in this that it is the Grammy awards and this is the largest and most important
music event in the world. But more than that, let’s not categorize this as an assault
because it was much more than assault. Rihanna almost died and it as for so many people just
another hideous and heinous act of aggression towards women. So it is a lot more than just
a typical assault. But at the same time Chris Brown absolutely does not need to be at the
Grammys yet. One of the things I have an issue with is the fact that every time that Chris
Brown has made an appearance, whether he’s apologized, there has not been a remorse that
has been backed by any kind of need to rectify the situation. It’s always been just about
saving the career and saving face. So that’s one of the issues. And you know the larger
issue here is that America has an affinity for excusing aggressive male behaviors. Especially
and particularly in the entertainment industry. That’s really interesting. And I see what
you’re saying about that and sometimes if you say the wrong words you’ll get in so
much more trouble than if you’re actually abusing your girlfriend etc. Like people always
talk about Charlie Sheen and he’s winning before breakfast. But didn’t he beat up
his girlfriend or am I thinking of the wrong person? Did we see pictures of her? Because
I think that’s also the other issue here that there were pictures broadcasted all over
the internet of Rihanna who for a lot of especially Black women, young Black women. But also just
young women in general. She was their idol. And to have her pulverized via picture and
have that picture circulated and seen over and over and over again in the media. It just
made such an incredible indelible mark on our society that the Grammys bringing Chris
Brown on seems like a slap in the face three years later. And that’s really strong. So
I gotta follow up on it which is what’s enough? And let me open that up to everybody.
When you say ok. You know what? That guy what really means it? How do we judge that? What’s
enough? Well I think you have to think about what’s enough in your own personal life
with people you know. What is enough? Is this person a serial offender? Is he a psychopath?
Is he a sociopath? Does he really not have the ability to rehabilitate himself? Is there
actual remorse? Is he working on, or she, becoming a better human being? But do we judge
that collectively? No. Do we sit in judgement of Chris Brown and say ok. You have now become
officially a better human being. We can move forward. We do with our actions. We do it
with our agency as a people, as a society. And so we control the music market. Yet if
we’re supporting his music then what are we really saying as a society once again?
Which is that it’s ok for women to be beat. So should I not go to Mel Gibson movies? That’s
a good question. It is a good question. I think that’s gotta be. Everybody has a personal
take and it’s such an interesting. I don’t know the right answer I would tell you. I
won’t go see a Mel Gibson movie and Jodie Foster a lesbian produced it. Directed it.
And I still won’t go see anything he’s in. She is out now isn’t she? Yes. Ok. Is
she? She’s out. Ok well we’re outing a lot of people on this show. O shoot. Well
if you’re not out. Well she is out. She is. Anyway, I can’t go see a Mel Gibson
movie now. Yet she’s friends with him. She is friends with him and he’s been homophobic
too. He’s had homophobic slurs so. And yet I think he’s probably a person who’s very.
A man whose suffering and probably has some alcoholism and some other issues and has some
mental health issues. And so where do you draw the line on that? It’s such a tough
tough thing. With Chris Brown though. He is not. Like he just had the whole anger. He’s
getting anger management. I mean he just through a chair through the window last time he was
interviewed by. Just a few months ago. Yea. So I mean. Like I don’t. You know and if
he wasn’t a celebrity, he’d be in jail. Hands down at this point he’d be in jail
for what he did. And that’s the other thing that’s maddening of course. Like the Occupy
guys in LA. They sat in jail waiting on five thousand dollar ten thousand dollar bail etc.
Lindsey Lohan was out in like eighty seconds right. And so it’s just so maddening. That
power dynamic there too. But you know I just don’t know where to draw the line here and
that’s very unusual for me. Cause I love to have strong opinions. So like R. Kelly.
I mean urinating on underage girls. Jesus. When do we ever forgive that? We don’t.
We don’t because R. Kelly has a history of perpetrating young women ok? He also married
Aaliyah when she was fourteen years old. So he has a history of doing that. Chris Brown
has a history of male aggression and violent behavior that’s unacceptable which is why
it confuses me that the Grammys would honor him with a coveted position to perform rather
than say Jill Scott. And with him. See he’s made no effort to show remorse or apology.
Like nothing. Like nothing. There have been no steps. What has he done to break through
that? You guys win, ok. Chris Brown should not be back. Ok. You’ve convinced me. Because
a chair throwing, not nearly enough remorse. And I saw when he read his lawyer’s statement.
Ah he’s like and then my lawyer says that I should say. I’m like ah come on come on.
I mean he didn’t say my lawyers says but it was obvious the way he was reading it.
But see I’m so fascinated by how as a culture we kind of become hypnotized by all of this.
And my theory is that for us, because we’re mostly a secular culture, that celebrity has
become our gods and so we worship them. And it activates this part in our psyche where
we don’t think rationally and reasonably anymore. So literally the neurons that we
use to understand and maybe have a moralize and draw a line about these things. Does it
get activated in this way? There’s some chance I’m gonna give you the point of the
week for that comment. Yes. In fact we never had a point of the week before but you might
get the first award. You know I read this study where monkeys look at alpha males within
the monkey world and they will hand them bananas. Like even though they should eat the banana.
They wouldn’t hand it if it wasn’t an alpha male. But they see and alpha male and
they’re like oh. And they wanna watch it on tv. They put it on tv and they wanna hand
the banana to the tv. And that’s how we are. Like no matter what they do wrong, we’re
like here’s our banana. The point is that this goes back to patriarchy once again. Because
if you look at the entertainment industry, when women are placed in the same position
that Chris Brown is in and they are vilified completely. Lindsey Lohan has been vilified.
Brittany Spears was vilified. Whitney Houston has been vilified. All of these artist who
haven’t done nearly anything close to what Chris Brown has done. Janet Jackson exposes
her *** and then she becomes the anti-Christ in America. So when you really look at this.
But did you see that ***? Did you see what happened to Justin Timberlake with the rest
of his career and what happened to hers? I mean she was one of the biggest artists in
the entire history of America. And yet she was vilified because she did the exact same
thing that Justin Timberlake participated in. And it’s not even about making a mistake.
It’s just powerful strong women. I mean look at Barbara Streisand whose a perfectionist.
Whose a very powerful woman. And is a difficult person to be with as an artist but she has
a point of view. Looks at James Cameron. You know. Same thing. He’s as much of an ***
on the set that she is. So we hear. Right. Yet she’s. She’s labeled the diva. Yes.
Well it’s always that way. It’s always the woman. If it’s a strong woman with an
opinion that wants it done perfectly. She’s a ***. Right. But a guy he’s brilliant.
He’s doing what he’s supposed to do. He’s the alpha male. He’s the general. He’s
taking the position. Can I get you guys to pardon anyone on this show? So Chris Brown’s
out. How about Michael Vick? He served his sentence. He’s back. He’s really good.
As long as you check with your animal. I don’t know. Ok. So is it ok that he’s with the
Eagles playing football again? I think we have to believe in rehabilitation on some
level as a culture. Yea aren’t we lib? I mean I don’t know. I’m speaking for myself.
Yea. I am. I do believe in rehabilitation and I believe in giving people a second chance.
And he has done the time. He has. But I think there’s gotta be some. Like to go back and
make those. I mean tie a percentage of his income to like animal abuse or something.
I don’t know. There’s a sudden responsibility you have as an artist to rectify your situation.
When Rihanna was beat, she provided several music videos that went against domestic violence.
And you don’t see that from Chris Brown. You don’t see anything that’s countering
his behavior and his actions. And it’s just another example of Americans and our society
promoting excessive abuse of women. I’m also gonna give you an award James for defender
of women award. There’s never been a man on the show that defended women as much as
you James and I appreciate that. So they get the awards. I’m going home empty handed.
But we discussed this before the show. It’s because Andrea, you already have like twenty
eight awards. So it’s already unfair. I’m just trying to even things out. The only person
left awardless at the end of the night is gonna be me. Ok. Once last one because I can’t
resist because I find this so fascinating because I don’t know the answers. Michael
Richards said something terrible but that dude was apologetic. I mean he looked destroyed
when he went on to apologize etc. You know he’s going through therapy. Yada yada yada.
Can we pardon him or no? I feel like he sincerely. It was the worst. It was terrible. So many
things happen at comedy clubs that don’t get out. I mean that’s a typical slur in
a comedy club. I mean I produce comedy specials. I scam at them. I scout. But because he’s
a celebrity it got out but. And that doesn’t make it right. And the way he used it. Yea.
It was terrible. It was terrible. He does seem sincerely, sincerely apologetic. I mean
really does feel like he he seems like he’s hurting. James. At least he didn’t hurt
women. Does that help? No because there’s no apology that’s good enough for racial
epithets. And you really have to accept responsibility as an artist. If you’re going to make that
mistake, you have to accept that these are the ramifications of what happens. James is
not letting anyone off the hook today. You know there have been so many celebrities that
have had the worst homophobic slurs as well. O yea when you get into that category, you’re
eliminating a lot of folks. Yea it keeps happening. But all of it. None of it’s ok. None of
it’s ok. And if you don’t punish the person that did. Like it has to change. It just has
to change. But I think part of it’s conversation helps to educate people. And not even necessarily
to educate but to have them sort of thinking about it. And going hey you know what. Maybe
James is right. Why is there despairing treatment of women and men in similar situations etc?
And why do we think it’s ok to get beyond what Chris Brown did when it appears that
he hasn’t learned very much from it? So I really appreciate all of you for coming
on to have this discussion. Now I wanna let everybody know what’s going on. First of
all, James B. Golden which by the way is an awesome name. You get an award for that as
well. Thank you. His book is Afro Clouds and *** Rain. We’re rooting for him to win
a second award. The NAACP Image award. Not quite as illustrious as the award I just gave
you but ok. Close enough. And Andrea Meyerson. She’s with Standout Productions. and she’s
got like a million things coming out. On March 14th on Showtime. Lip Service hosted by Niecy
Nash. That’s interesting. And then you’ve got a documentary I Stand Corrected coming
out as well. And then this Sunday on Sirius satellite radio, on Road Dog, Kelly Carlin.
Kelly Clarkson. I won American Idol too? Oh my god. You know why? I just saw a commercial
for Sirius with Kelly Clarkson in it. Anyway, the Kelly Carlin Show debuts. And you’ve
got Robin Williams as guest. I do. A great conversation with Robin. Alright. That’s
fantastic and I wanna thank Rob Delaney who sent in a point. And of course Mollie Thomas
as well. I wanna thank all you guys for joining us and we will see you next week.