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This is John Kohler with Ok Raw.com and we have another exciting episode for you, this
one is very important to me because I see It happen a lot in the raw foods arena. Recently
I was at the Woodstock food festival and I met a brilliant young lady named Jolita brilliant,
and Jolita brilliant has recently started eating meat and It may happen to a lot of
people that are into a fruit based diet and I don't' want that to happen to you. So today
I have a special guest Dr. Jameth Sheridan who has a lot of experience with this exact
situation and are some reasons why this occurs and in this video we are going to share those
reasons with you because I do not want you to going back to eating animal products. In
my opinion it is not a solution it is gonna cause a bigger problem.
John: So Jameth why don't you tell us more about yourself, how long have you been into
a plant-based raw style diet and through your experiences with the fruits and eating a high
fruit diet Jameth: I have been a plant based vegan for
28 years and raw foods for about 26 not as a passing fancy but as a full time career,
vocation a full timer, I am into it, I live it I breath it, I research It, I have been
most of the raw food diets, I have helped evolve some of them. I am not the founder
of the raw foods movement but I am one of the early pioneers. And the number one reason
I see, people leaving a raw foods vegan program is because they emphasize fruitarianism. The
number one reason we lose more people to veganism because of fruitarianism than anything else,
in fact raw food fruitarianism is the worst threat to veganism. Why, you think you go
out in nature, into the garden of eden, you walk around you sit under a tree. You ohm,
you do something, you pick this perfectly ripe fruit and it comes off and you eat it
and there is this beautiful lure and romantic poetry that has some validity to it. Fruits
are unbelievable high in fiber and nutrients, high in anti-oxidants, high in certain minerals,
other components that help you to heal. They provide immediate energy, they are phenomenal
for you, there is no toxins in the fruits whatsoever. Some vegetables and other fruits
have small amounts of toxins; fruits have none. They are really God's gift to man and
woman they are amazing for you. BUT, can a man or woman live on fruit alone? That is
the question, that has been the question for decades!
John: Wow Jameth: Now, in my experience, the vast majority,
I mean like 90% of people who are long term fruitarians, I have never seen them be successful
ever! And I have been in this raw now for 27...26 years studying, researching and being
with these people and studying them. They either lose their teeth and lose their strength
and health and they just go off into the jungle and die and sit in a hammock and don't do
anything, or they go to the other end of the spectrum and they start eating meat because
their fruitarian paradigms are largely fruitarian paradigms, definitely all fruit does not work
for them. John: Is fruit bad...
Jameth: No! John: I am going to start eating meat, I mean
what's up? Why don't we define how much fruit? Some fruit are like 80% calories some fruit
are 90%, like are a really extreme amount that is not normal because there are so many
different other foods on earth that we could be eating
Jameth: Ok, if you are doing a tremendous amount of athletic activity, you are burning
glucose in your blood stream, you are burning glycogen , your liver is converting it to
glucose, you are burning glycogen from your muscles, its going into your blood stream
and you are deficient in glycogen because you've worked out really hard for really long.
What your body wants, the first thing it wants immediately from that expenditure is that
it wants sugar. It wants immediate blood sugar because its trying to crank out blood sugar
as fast as it can because you are using it constantly. So after you work out doing lots
of athletics, you want fruits or fruits blended in your smoothie so its more concentrated.
It dictates that, It mandates that. But if you are not doing all that exercise, you do
not need that much sugar coming in your body constantly and even if you are doing that
much exercise there are still people that have failed on that, thrown the baby out with
the bathwater and said "fruit is toxic for me, fruit is crap, even in the raw foods movement
there are people that know that because too much fruit, 70, 80, 90% or even 50 for some
people is too much for sugar John: and that depends on different persons
right? Jameth: right
John: ...because we are not clones out of the factory
Jameth: ...whether the their metabolism, how much energy they need, their time in life,
what's their physical schedule makes a big difference on how much fruit, and the time
of year too. But because too much fruit is bad for people, most people, therefore, (sarcastically)
fruit is bad for everybody, it is throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the other
direction and now we are having these ultra high fat diets, still clean quality fats totally
coming from animal products which people have overcome diabetes on actually even though
it is ultra high fat at least you are overcoming diabetes, a problem that the fruit can sometimes
cause but it is the opposite direction. John: So do you recommend a higher fat diet
for me Jameth, if I am not supposed to eat fruit, I mean what I am I going to do?
Jameth: I recommend eating a balanced amount of fruit and a balanced amount of fat and
that's gonna be varied depending on who you are and how much exercise you are doing. We
are going to talk about fat when we get down to fat, you can actually do too much fat...
John: ok Jameth: ... and you can do too little too
and I want to talk about that. So most people on a fruitarian diet in my experience are
deficient in multiple things and sugar, sugar, if you have just desert desert desert, sweets
sweets sweets, desert desert desert, what do you crave? You crave savory salty foods,
a little garlic and salt and spices and stuff and if you just eat salt salt salt salt, what
do you want after your mega salty meal? You want desert, BAM!, BAM!, BAM!, BAM!, swinging
back and forth like a pendulum like a maniac swining back and forth and you do not have
any balance and that is what happens with vegetarian diets, people swing the pendulum
over everthing else because "grains are poison, whole wheat, they all cause brain damage ", which
is not true, because gluten is bad for some people which why "all grains have gluten"
which is also not true, all tubers are allegedly bad for you, any good foods, all the legumes
are bad for you blah blah blah, so in fruitarian paradigm, what are your options? The little
tiny bit of grains that they let you have or screw it and if you are not doing well,
just shove more food down your throat and you will heal!
John: Aren't you supposed to be eating more fruit if you are not getting the results on
a fruitarian diet? Just eat more if you are not eating enough right?
Jameth: Now you have more sugar coming in your body, more sugar come by your teeth.
Somebody on a fruitarian diet has more sugar pass by their teeth than any junk-fooder in
the history of the world because when you eat mostly fruit, every single meal is sugar
coming on your teeth. And if you put blood sugar in with bacteria, the bacteria that
causes dental decay, those bacteria grow, they grow like crazy. If you put dental bacteria
in with fruit, the dental bacteria grow, they grow way better on fruit sugar than they do
on white sugar because fruit sugar is way more vital. Fruit sugar blows away white sugar,
it is totally better for you. So you have fruit sugar hitting your teeth all day long
and the bacteria on your teeth are in love, they grow like crazy! And dental issues are
rampant in people that eat high amounts of fruit , including me in the past when I was
largely a fruitarian and it started rotting the teeth out of my mouth
John: I have had issues with my teeth as well, doing too much fruit.
Jameth: and that is the number one people because they do not have much options, everything
cooked is poison, which is not true, this only occurs with protein not with any cooked
vegan food, they just go the opposite, the complete opposite direction, where there are
eating a high sugar, high salt, low protein low iron low B12 food and eating mostly fruitarian.
What is the body thinking? What is it used to is a lot of salt because you are not allowed
to add separate salt to a fruitarian diet, blood is salty, meat has b12 it has iron in
it, it has protein in it and also has a tremendous amount of toxicity in it, which is the exact
opposite of a fruitarian diet. I've seen some people go to eat high meat diets and they
feel like crap after a while and say "I gotta be a fruitarian, I have got to cleanse this
crap out!" , back to fruitarian, they do good for a while, then they go back to fish, meat
meat fruit meat fruit meat fruit, they just destroy the body. Too high sugar, can give
you osteoporosis, and animal protein gives you osteoporosis too and these people they
roll their lives away and their hormones away John: wow! It sounds like these diet extremes
are really not good but Jameth there has to be a center of gravity and we will talk about
it in a minute but what are some of the top reasons that persons start eating meat from
raw vegan or... Jameth: it doesn't even have to be fruitarian,
sometimes it is raw vegan radically deficient diet sometimes it is all raw diets that have
certain things that are so stringent . Sometimes its too high in fat, sometimes there is no
salt, there are these things that often time a raw food diet, a 100% raw does not work
and in my experience, for most people long term. And because you are programmed with
raw, raw is the main number 1 criteria of a raw food diet that works. If it does not
work or it cannot be cooked, some people just go to the other end, go all the way to the
other end and just eat meat. It is a total rejection of an all raw vegan paradigm because
if one little thing does not work and they don't give you a place to go, the leaders
don't give you a place to go within that, then you go eat meat. So, some people think
that eating meat is better for you than eating steamed legumes, or brown rice or potatoes,
foods that have been shown to reverse heart disease, foods that have been shown to prevent,
and in many cases, reverse cancers and diabetes and so forth, you can't do that on poison.
It is a total misconception that all cooked foods are poison that sends people to eating
meat. Case in point, famous person, famous vegan
oriented health professional MD, at a conference many years ago, woman comes up she says, "you
know, when I eat your high starch, no salt, ultra low-fat diet, I don't feel well and
I have to have turkey and fish occasionally because it makes me feel better, it really
blah blah blah" she was genuine. The doctor told her, well you know, it does not work
for everybody and I am like aghh! You did not listen to the woman! You did not get out
of your own little box to understand, so I went to the woman and I followed up and I
said look, I believe you could do it all vegan if you touch up. She says "really? Blah blah
blah"..we talked about it so here is what I had to do , I let her soak in water, sprout
lentils, high protein lentils is what she did this with, meat was high protein, everything
she was doing she was told, "do not eat protein". Because animal protein is so toxic, animal
protein causes leukocytosis. This is what happens when you get an organ transplanted;
it rejects the meat, because animal protein we know promotes cancer, therefore, this author
assumed that all proteins promoted cancer including vegetable proteins which is not
true vegetable proteins do not promote cancer. They were not allowed to have protein, they
were not allowed to have legumes, they were not allowed to have spirulina, no chlorella,
no herbs, no superfoods nothing like that, nothing high in protein at all. She said screw
this I cannot eat protein, just fruits and vegetables, I will just have meat occasionally.
That is one driving factor. The other driving factor is, she was craving
salt, she was told don't have salt, salt raises your blood pressure, therefore if your blood
pressure is higher then you are going to have more cholesterol and heart disease and so
forth which is not a direct correlation. And also, she was probably craving essential fatty
acids which she was not allowed to eat any fat. No oil, no fat, no flax seed no nuts,
no seeds, nothing with any fat in it except tiny grains that are in fruits and vegetables,
that's it. So here is my recipe for her, lentils, higher in protein than animal products, non
toxic full of other nutrients, proteins covered, maximum amount of nutrients in there. Flax
seed oil -- omega 3 is in a healthy form that does not have any toxicity like free from
epa from animal products does. John: but shouldn't we eat the ground flax
Jan instead of like the flax oil? Jameth: ultimately ground glax is even healthier
thant the flax oil because it is the whole with the benefits of the bio estrogens that
compete with the xeno estrogens and the estrogens in your body which protects you from them,
yes that's better but you cannot put it on letils, it does not work, she wanted something
that tasted good and that worked. Lentils steamed, you gotta cook lentils or you gotta
cook all the legumes. Flax oil essential fatty acids also more callorically dense than the
whole grain that she was eating and she might have wanted more calories. Celtic sea salt
and she could use any sea salt, she could use gluten free, organic tamari , she could
use miso, she could use himaillian salt something like that, those three things. Cooked legumes,
in this case lentils, flax oil and sea salt, completely eliminated forever, her craving
for animal products. This vegan, the was probably sixteen/seventeen years ago, she has not eaten...Because
the person was not giving her the option, I gave her the option. Look you can do this
vegan, I have helped thousands of people stay vegan or return to being vegan, to break out
of their previous rigid paradigm whether it was a raw food paradigm which is what mostly
happens or if it is an ultra low fat ultra low protein, ultra low sodium diet.
John: Wow, I am in favour of you know just eating a balanced diet whatever it is, you
do not want to get too extreme in any case in having a meal.
Jameth: Yes and it is not even a compromise, it's a synergize, it is an absolute synery...it
is the best way to do. Eating lentils, they are phenomenal for you, flax oil and celtic
sea salt, they taste and digest phenomenally, or even a piece of flesh, the lentil is the
best part, it is the best thing that you can possibly do. There is a lot of people on carbotarian-type
diets . Some people can just do whole grain starches, potatoes, squashes, grains and thrive
but there is a good section of the population, they do not get protein, they do not get enough
fat or enough fatty acids in there, they don't get enough nutrients from that and they need
to do these; like the legume family. Like, focus on actual more vegetables and massive
big salads with things like avocados in it, not ten avocados at once, that I ridiculous!
But because animal products, animal fat and processed vegetable oils are so bad for you,
therefore, "avocado is bad for you", is it the same exact fat? Absolutely not, avocados
are super foods they are super high in folic acid, the fat is really easy to digest and
process, yes, you can have too much of them but you have to have way more avocados to
hurt yourself than you have to do when you have regular fat. So have some avocado with
your salad, have some avocado If you are burning a lot of calories, it is absolutely not too
much but in those little rigid programs you are not allowed to do that. In the radical
fruitarian programs, you cannot have half an avocado, let alone a lone avocado. These
ultra low /fat starch fruitarian diets, you can't have salt, you can't have protein, and
they take too much away from you. John: So Jameth, you're saying I can eat all
the salt I want now, what are you nuts?! Jameth: NO! No I am not saying that..
John: did he not say that you can eat salt now right so what is the adequate amount of
salt that we should all be eating? Jameth: Hard question to answer, but you don't
want to shake shake shake shake salt on your food because if it's too much then you're
thirsty, then you crave sugar. If you crave sugar after your salty meal, you've had too
much. John: what if you crave salt after your sugary
meal? Jameth: Then you have had too much sugar.
If it's a mild craving its ok if it is strong then its too much, If you get thirsty after
a salty meal, then it is too much. John: Wow, its all about balance. If I eat
too much salt I get itchy, its like my body telling me, oh you have had too much salt
dude, don't eat so much. Jameth: If I have had too much salt I will
get really thirsty, salt can taste good and sometimes not if it's not a lot, it can be
something that is overdone. Here is what happens if you have not had enough salt, I have this
little experience in my own life. I have been a vegan now for 27-28 years, I lose count,
it is a long long time, I am still buff and strong. But 18 years in to vegan, I started
craving blood, actual blood, I craved this steak juice I had when I was a kid. It was
a two month period at a time I was having cravings for a massive amount of water. I
had two gallons of actual water plus a bunch of juices everyday...zero sodium, not even
eating lots of celery and I was doing herbs to actually flush my kidneys to let water
get out of my system so I was on a massive salt deficient diet the most saltless I have
ever been in my life. I told people about being salt deficient, about being sodium deficient,
about not having enough sodium in your tissues, you are actually dehydrated. With too much
salt you actually have too much water in the tissues. If you do not have enough salt you
cannot hold enough water in the system and no matter how much water you drink, you are
dehydrated, the more you drink the more dehydrated you get, you have to have enough salt in there.
So I started craving blood, I did not tell my wife, I was shocked, I was like Oh my God
I was eighteen years vegan and I strongly viscerally craved that steak juice blood.
So one day after about two months, I was in front my fridge, I grabbed the gluten free
organic tamari which is very salty and you should use it like a seasoning on your food;
and I drank it like a juice. I drank it, and I felt this electricity go all over my body
because when Iooked at that tamari before I drank it I began to salivate, my body was
telling me, "you idiot, you need more salt you idiot!, don't drink more fluids, don't
drink more gallons of water, don't' have more herbs that are flushing your kidneys for this
long period of time." I just scooped the miso in to my mouth like it was piece of cake or
frosting and just ate it directly like a food. I had additional salt coming into me and I
felt this additional surge of electricity come over my entire body because I was so
salt deficient, my body was telling me, "you idiot, just eat that salt, you are so salt
deficient", and when I wasn't eating salt, no sea salt, no tamari, no miso...I had massive
amounts of water that was flushing more salt out of my system. The herbs, they were cleansing
me but too much for too long, I still had that situation where I craved salt, I was
grossly deficient in it. And since I wouldn't eat those other things, by body was like "ok
fine, since you are not going to eat all the other things with salt and stuff we are going
to make you crave anything that you can think of that has salt in it. What has salt in it?
It went straight back to my childhood, distinctly to the steak juice. The blood, blood has salt
in it. As a kid, you lick your wound, it is salty, you have salt in it that Is what happens.
By body said well, dude just forget it, anything with salt, we are going to let you crave anything
you can have that has salt in it. After I did that, I never craved blood again. I had
set up my diet so that I would crave animal products. If I did not think about that if
I had not eaten tamari If I did not have an actual framework in veganism, I would have
had some salty burgers, some salty piece of fish, some salty piece of flesh. Somewhere
I could have said look, animal products made me feel better, and it would have been partially
true but because of my set up, with my false way, my false credit there was this salt.
For some people, it is not necessarily salt but, high fruit/high sugar diets, lead to
cravings of salt, you are gonna crave salt even more and is one of the reasons people
crave animal products. That is why so many people on fruitarian diets don't rinse their
seaweeds even though they are supposed to because they just crave it so much. Something
about them just tells them. I used to rinse all my seaweeds but it was mostly, generally
because I was a good follower of the fruitarian program. My wife, who was maybe more intuitive
than I was, she also had low blood pressure apparently, low blood sugar inherently, she
did not rinse her cup in fact she started preparing the meals ahead of time and hide
the salt cup so I would not reach to get the salt off. She was more intuitive, she had
more issues, she had low blood pressure so it made sense.
John: So an adequate amount of salt overall Jameth: Correct. Now if you have no salt in
your diet ever, your kidney is going to do an all out conservation and it is going to
work harder to preserve the salt you have and you won't have enough hydration in your
body. So if you eat a real reasonable amount of salt after having no salt at all, temporarily
you are going to get puffy and say "your body is going to be like oh my God, hold on to
every piece of that salt, every molecule of salt, don't let any go because we are not
going to get any ever again!", that is how your kidney things. It comes to the point
of balance you actually don't want to have a pillar of salt, you have to be reasonable,
you have to be rational about it, there is a balance, there is a ying-yang here and I
hope that everyone is smart enough to understand that.
John: On the USDA it says what, like 1500.... Jameth: I never measure it anymore, I never
measure, so I don't know John: so for an adequate amount of salt, each
person needs to find out. So I have a little bit of miso and some sour *** with my salad
every night and that seems to be sufficient for me, so you need to find out what is right
for you. Jameth: How hot is it, how much are you sweating,
how much physical activity, how much liquid, how many sweets and other things and -- sugar
and salt will balance themselves out to a positive extent but they can also be on the
extremes. You have to figure it out for yourself, that is your homework.
John: So what other nutrients that we could be deficient in that may cause meat cravings?
Jameth: Other things that happen with both fruitarian and just raw food diets, whether
you are not fruitarian, whether there is no fruit, both of these things- let's talk about
the fruit part first, is protein. We need far less protein than most charts
say, far less! Most cultures just exist on 20 or 30 grams of protein a day and they are
super active. But then does that therefore mean that every single person needs only 20
or 30 grams of protein If they are doing a lot of activity? No it doesn't. Many people
become protein deficient because they are on a fruitarian diet which is so low in protein,
ultra low, 3,4 or 5% which is just not nearly, nearly enough and there might not be the right
quality of protein in fruit. There is so few people that may be able to thrive long term
on a diet based on fruitarianism. if we are talking long term, 10, 15,20 years, I am yet
to see it. I am yet to see a person go ten years on fruitarianism and still thrive. I
have not seen someone come to the plate and do that yet. I have not even seen five years
for people who are truly, mostly fruitarian who are not lying about their binges, not
lying about their supplementations and so forth.
John: There are people out there like dough Graham, I mean, there are people out there
that look up to Doug who are doing this a long time. How do you explain that?
Jameth: I look up to doug too and Doug was one of my teachers in the raw foods world
and Doug is clearly buff and in shape but Doug has taken B12 injections, has been taking
supplements. Doug is not perfect, he has messed up here and there in various degrees, I don't
want to say exactly what because I don't want to have the rumors but a huge percentage of
people doug teaches go off and eat meat. Why is there such a fall off it works for x amount
of people what Doug teaches, and it may work for x amount of people, will it work long
term? We will find out but I would say minimum, in my experience I would say minimum, over
80% of people, it doesn't work for and it sends them off into a meat diet, junk food
or paleo diets; that needs to be looked at, I think it needs to be presented as "this
is a diet that may work for this amount of people, but if you have issues, here is how
to fix it." John: Good Point
Jameth: These are the issues, here is how to fix it with complex carbohydrates, here
is how to fix it with salt, with lentil protein, here is how to fix it with spirolina with
chlorella and even protein supplements. You don't have to destroy yourself or destroy
the environment and have no ethics by going and eating meat, it's the baby out with the
bath water in the worst possible way. And for those who fruitarianism is working, if
you are kicking *** as a fruitarian, if you are kicking *** as an 80/10/10 er, don't do
anything I am saying, keep kicking *** because I totally genuinely want you to be healthy
and happy. If your are totally ethical about your diet, you are not killing anything, you
are awesome! But be aware that in my experience, in my 27 years of experience with raw foods,
and I am not alone in this, for the vast majority of people, it doesn't work and you are going
to turn them into staunch ex-vegans! You think that lentils, cooked lentils, salt, flax seeds,
is better that animal products and you know you do, so give them that as the option, even
if they are cheating or whatever it is that you want to call it, let them do that rather
than force their hand to go the other direction. John: Wow, this is why I am making this important
video to get this word out, to give you guys options, I am not going to tell you guys what
to do, but I want you guys to know the options so that you can make an informed decision
and do the better thing in my opinion and so Jameth, what other nutrients can be deficient
in our diet? Jameth: Protein too
John: Protein Jameth: Lets talk about protein, as a fruitarian
you are simply not getting enough, most people are not getting enough
John: And obviously it is like Jameth just said, if it is working for you, keep it up
just keep this information in mind if one day that potentially or possibly does change
Jameth: you don't' have to compromise your ethics, you don't have to compromise your
urge and you can still stay vegan. You can do all within a vegan paradigm you can adapt
easily. And it is a healthy way to do it. John: you can see my other video where Jameth
talks about the five reasons why you want to eat more plants and not meat.
Jameth: the other reason, people end up going on a raw foods diet is; we are going back
to salt, and these are people eating high nut diets which is very high in protein higher
protein than the usual animal product diet and not a toxic protein, the good protein,
clean. There is A lot of fatty acids in nuts, a lot, a powerhouse of nutrition in there.
And there is a difference between fats, some fats are good, some fats are bad but too much
fat of any fat can end up being too much, you end up starting to produce more estrogen,
there is estrogen dominance especially if there is no legumes, there is phyto estrogen
built in there. Now lets go to the protein part. There is many people on raw food diets
eating plenty of protein, nuts and seeds, they do not have musculature, eating that
nut and seed protein alone. It simply doesn't work. It takes in some cases, weeks to recover
from working out. My wife kim had that decades ago, it took her so long to recover on protein
from a raw food diet. It worked abysmally for her the way we did it at first but she
is not a lone, there are so many people that could not build muscle because they were losing
weight on their raw food diet, sometimes you are eating a lot of calories, a lot of seeds
and the muscles are dwindling down and you are like "this sucks" . Then you are like
"screw it!, I am tired of being skinny, I am tired of being whimpy, I am tired of not
having enough energy I am tired of not having any muscles, i don't have any muscles any
more!" At first I liked it because I got slim, I am trim, I am lean, I feel awesome, I got
veins, I love this, I feel active...and it just kept going. Some have eaten so much nuts
that they get fat, others couldn't even get to put weight on and they just say "screw
it, I'll go eat meat!" cause I cant eat lentils I can't eat legumes, I can't eat protein powders
for vegans, I can't eat spirlina I can't eat chlorella, I cant get to eat all these stuff
so I will just do the other. It has been my experience that those people invariably, If
the add, the number one protein food you can add to your diet, even more important that
spirulina and chlorella which is a God send to man, you could have those too but more
important than that, the legume family. The legume family is higher in protein than
animal products and it is a different protein than you find in nuts and seeds. It is different,
I has a different energy, a different quality for a lot of people. Now, I let everybody
is that when I was mostly fruitarian I was buff, tough and running marathons, I could
do it, I could build muscle, I could pack It on, it was awesome, it was clean, I was
rotting the teeth out of my mouth and I was getting bladder infections and other things
were starting to go wrong and I had to stop. Other people couln't even get to where I was
at so I have an experience with that. I didn't have to eat legume protein at that time, other
people did, I have seen other people on high nut and seed, on high protein diets wasting
away until finally I am able to convince them that not all cooked food is poison, you do
not have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. These are unbelievably healing foods, whether
they be lentils, chick beans, organic soy beans, red beans, azuki beans, snow beans,
whatever, any of those from the legume family, once you add those to the diet you've got
, unless they are in a fresh pea pod, you have got to cook them, they have got to be
cooked to be digestible and healthy that is an absolute critical thing. There are other
talks that if you soak and sprout them first and then cook them, there is no gastrointestinal
issues whatsoever, those people all of a sudden, come to life. Their muscles come to life,
their brains come to life, they are able to build, work out and be buff and tough and
strong and energetic. But if they didn't do that, they would throw all that out, all the
legume world out and probably throw out a chlorella and a spirolina paradigm and those
are unbelieveably high in protein and they would probably throw out the brown rice, organic
vegan protein and go all the way to meat. We have got to give them options, this is
such a better option. And let us talk briefly about the phytoestrogens
in legumes. Phyto estrogens are considered the scourge of the world and they are very
high in soy food. But now here is the illogic, people think about this if you are a health
professional, If you are an MD, If you are a regular person, please consider what I have
to say, I am not trying to shove anything down your throat but this is really really
important for you to understand, it is the baby with the bathwater. Estrogen, if your
body makes too much estrogen, It actually doesn't but if it does it can actually promote
breast cancer, uterine cancer, different kinds of female cancers. For a man, It can actually
compete with your testosterone and you will have less testosterone in your system and
it is not good. There is also petroleum products and other chemicals in the environment that
are called xeno-estrogens and they come in from the outside and they add to your body's
own estrogen burden make your situation worse and they contribute to cancers in both sexes.
Now, is there something, in the world, or in life, that mother nature, that God has
put on this earth, for us to protect us from these things? And the answers is yes, they
are phytoestrogens and they are weak estrogens. Now because they are weak estrogens from plants
people assume its actual estrogens and too much of it can cause cancers. Xeno estrogens
from the environment can cause cancers, therefore, because the plants are weak estrogens, "they
promote cancer". We are all on the same page here, does this make sense John?
John: Asolutely.. Jameth: "a little bit of this type of estrogen
promotes cancer so a lot of that type must produce cancer too"...
John: its like if A then B and if B then C, it is like math right?
Jameth: That's right, but if that were true, if that were actual reality, if that was the
way the world worked, then the culture and the people and the culture that eat the most
phyto-estrogen food, not supplements, not xeno-estrogens, foods, phytoestrogen foods,
legumes, would have the most cancers! Right? Phyto-estrogens cause cancer ...
John: I guess if you look at it that way Jameth: ...then it has got to work that way
you have got to have the populations that eat these foods having the most cancer. But
when you look at the Asian cultures, be it Japan, Okanawa and China, they are eating
the most whole organic soy foods, not supplements, not GML crap, not raw, whole organic cooked
lentils, and other legumes, they have the least estrogen based cancers, the least . So
if you could just be like a dummy and say well if this causes cancer, then that must
cause cancer, no in between, then you will just throw the baby out with the bath water.
If you have a little bit of a scientific mind and I am not saying that they readers and
the listeners don't have it, but we have been taught by people who were not thinking the
whole picture. They were not taught the whole picture and they just passed it on because,
"I trusted the person, I believe them and I don't want to question their integrity ". As
soon as we question someone's integrity and question their competency it is totally different.
So we find that they have the least amount of estrogen based cancers. Here is why it
works differently. Estrogen is what your body makes, they are estrogen and they work as
estrogens. Xeno estrogens outside the body work as estrogens. Phyto-estrogens, as long
as they are still in the whole plant provided that they are in that form and not supplements
thereof, fill up the estrogen receptor sites in you body, male or female and they prevent,
the xeno estrogens or your body's own estrogen from attaching to that cell, from attaching
to the breast tissue, from attaching to the uterine tissue inhibiting testosterone in
men. Hey attach and they do not let these bad estrogens get in. They are protecting
you, they fit into the same receptor site. John: so we need these things
Jameth: we need these things in any way, especially in an environment where we have more and more
xeno estrogens coming in. But they are one of the reasons that legumes, soy bean that
pinnacle legumes has such a bad rap when it is actually the totally opposite reaction.
I have seen women who were doing tofu and tempei, totally balance their hormones. They
don't have breast tenderness, they couldn't even tell when their period was happening,
they had no cramping, very little blood when they got on to whole cooked organic soy or
some have used lentils, some have used chick beans, some have used black beans, some have
used peanuts, some have used alp alpha. When they get off that because they are on a raw
food program, they are told that all that food is poison, all of it. They get on to
a high fat raw program. All other factors being equal, the more fat you do, the more
fat you consume, the more estrogen your body makes whether you are male or female.
John: so you're gonna be a girl if you have high fat
Jameth: Not quite but somewhat. The protective phytoestrgenic diet of cooked legumes to high
fat, no protection in there...now you are having breast tenderness, now you are having
cancers forming, now you are having blood, now you are having menstrual cramps. Then
some people see that and say, " these things used to save my life in the past but I can't
go back to them, because they are not raw, they were healthy for me, they made me feel
better, but they are not raw". But the problem is the authorities the go to you and say "oh
that's bad, soy is bad", because raw soy is good for you it is hard to digest, isolated
parts of soy are horribly toxic because they have individual phytoestrogens not balanced
that can have negative hormonal consequences that never occur in the whole food. The people
in the Asian countries that eat soy, the more they eat the better health they have, they
have whole organic soy that has always been cooked. Soy is the number 2 source of phyto
estrogens . Flax seeds are multiple times higher in phyto estrogens. If phyto estrogens
caused cancer then the pet animals, human beings would have the most cancer. It would
be the most deadly estrogen based cancer-causing food on the planet. Let us frame that.
A study in Canada several years ago that was barely reported in the news, women took two
to four tablespoons of flax seeds within two to four weeks of when they were diagnosed
for cancer and when they were going to take mastectomy, where they take the whole breast
off or take the tumour out and disfigure the woman and leave her with self esteem issues
and all of that stuff. In those two to four weeks on two tablespoons of flax seeds, they
came back after two weeks and you would think that those flax seeds that were ultra high
in phyto estrogen would cause the tumour to be bigger than their breast at this point,
but instead they found that all of them had a reduction in breast tumour size, some of
them 50%! John: wow!
Jameth: Just two tablespoons of flax seeds grounded in a coffee grinder every day with
massive phytoestrogens. But what did they do with the results of this experiment? They
went ahead and had surgery! That should be medical malpractice! There was a study done
by the physicians committee that are responsible for medicine, Washington D.C group, headed
by an awesome physician, an incredible researcher, an incredible hero, his name is Neil Brown
and he's an M.D. He did a study with women and he put them on low fat whole food vegan,
not raw or anything like that, less than 10% of the calories from fat just regular normal
probably 30% calorie from fat diet, all of them were having menstrual challenges. He
put them on this diet and every one of them had improvement or absolute cessation of their
menstrual issues. He then asked them to go back the high fat diet to do a comparison,
but none of them would do it. They never wanted to participate in the study because they did
not want to go back to that. Take you to another study. I have seen women
who feel the need to eat, that it is fun to eat certain foods that taste good, healthy
fats like avocados, nuts and seeds, flax oil, things that are food, not inorganic garbage.
As long as they had enough healthy fat in their food, they still did not have any menstrual
challenges because the phyto estrogens protect them from all that fat. They are so powerful!
Phytoestrogens are built in foods and there are so many other foods that contain phyto
estrogens that I am not so sure I want to tell people that they will stop eating which
are probably protecting you right now, sesame seeds is one of them, they are not a legume
but they contain phyto-estrogens in them. And the fat that is in that sesame seed, the
oil that comes from the top can be used for a massage, you can wax your furniture with
it. John: so you want to eat an adequate amount
of fat, you don't want to eat too much and it is a whole food source of fat. But how
much is too much for me? Some of these raw food diets advocate "less than 10% of calories
from fat". Is that health or should we eat 40% of calories from fat, what's the right,
I know that everybody is different but I mean it is tough sometimes but there has got to
be somewhere in there where they want to start and experiment with.
Jameth: from my experience, 40% of fat is too much optimally for everybody. You would
not be able to do that in the state of nature. You could not harvest that many nuts and seed
to eat it, it just wouldn't work. 10% I think is actually ok for some people depending on
what they are doing, what kind of life they are leading, I think that is absolutely fine
I don't think they have to worry about it. You go anywhere from between 10 and 25% depending
on what you are doing, that Is my approximate range for people. And make sure you have that
with a lot of legumes and you will not have any hormone problems. And you don't see this
as powerful because you don't have a cycle, but it is as much powerful for men as it is
for women to eat these legume proteins and phytoestrogens.
Red clovers this is one of the bases for the famous "essiac" anti-cancer formula, it has
phyto estrogens in it, healthy ones. John: so you want to include these into your
diet instead of exclude them like some programs may have you do.
Jameth: Correct. John: so what kind of deficiencies apart from
the ones we have heard about already that can get people from a fruitarian style diet
to eating animals for some nutrients that they are missing?
A critical nutrient is iron. This is such a half truth that I want to give you the full
truth about iron. If you are a fruitarian and you are on a high fruit diet and you are
not getting enough greens, not enough iron, if you set yourself up on just eating fruit
and avoiding things with iron, and someone gives you something from an animal product
that has iron, your energy will be up and you will start thinking all of a sudden that
you need an animal product. But you did not use all the choices and you did not consider
the toxicity of that animal product. But let us talk about iron sufficiency. Iron
is different in animal product that it is in a vegetable food and you have been told
this, you have been taught it and it is a half truth. And I used to get into heated
discussions with people about the difference between heme iron which is the type that is
found in animal products and in a supplement as opposed to non heme iron that you will
find in vegetable foods which is claimed to be less absorbable which is another half truth.
Here is the half where it is true; If you are already sufficient I iron and you take
vegetable source iron, you will not absorb that iron will, it is poorly absorbed. Supplement
iron and animal iron are more absorbable if you have sufficient amounts of iron in your
system, that part of it is true. But, what if you have too much iron in your system?
If you take too much of a supplement or too much of an animal product, you could easily
get too much iron in your system and people have had to go and get their blood drawn periodically
because they have too much iron in the system. Iron is an oxidant, it creates free radicals,
that which casues aging and you can damage your system if you have too much iron. Animal
product iron or supplements absorb whether you need it or not.
If you are deficient in iron and you take an iron supplement or iron from an animal
product, the heme iron, those irons will absorb at a certain rate. But when you are deficient
in iron, the vegetable non-heme iron absorbs at a greater rate than the animal iron or
the supplementary iron because you need it! Because the non-heme iron has protein and
riboflavin and lipid and other complexes around it to allow the body to say " you know what,
I want to unwrap you package of organically wrapped iron, or I don't". When the body is
deficient it unwraps the packaged iron that you will only find in whole foods, plant foods,
I thas to be a plant food. John: and you can't get too much iron from
it Jameth: It is impossible, you cannot raise
your iron levels by eating the whole plant food because of the complex of nutrients around
it John: But you can with the animal product
Jameth: Nature built that in, you cannot kill yourself with spirolina! Iodine is not necessarily
something that someone can be deficient in, they can be on a fruitarian diet. Iodine,
we know the iodine we get in a solution has a skull and cross-bones on it, it is deadly
if you take too much. You can take any amount of iodine in the form of seaweeds. I have
taken way beyond the safe level of iodine in whole food form. It will straighten out
the whole foods within the matrix of the organic whole foods. It applies the same to iron.
It is so easy to get iron from superfoods, from greens that there is no reason to settle
for meat to get iron an it is toxic iron. In the early days when I used to argue over
that with people about the difference between heme iron and non-heme iron, it used to end
with, " let's just have an arm wrestle to decide it out" and I never lost and I never
lost a challenge. Because I have been a vegan for 26 years, anybody was a non-vegan should
have been able to waste me in an arm wrestle and they never have been able to for 26 years.
Lets talk about B12. B12 is an issue for everybody that is alive. B12 is made by bacteria in
your intestines. It is also deposited within the flesh tissues. So if you eat an animal
product, there is B12 in it. But, it is looked at as a vegetarian or vegan issue an its not
because 40% of the meat-eating American population is B12 deficient! So clearly it is not a vegan
issue but if you are vegan and you are B12 deficient then it is a problem because you
are vegan. Here is the easy solution to whether you are eating meat or you are vegan to become
B12 sufficient. Either take a B12 supplement which is so easy or you can do what I do which
is to take pro biotics and they provide all the B12 I need and my B12 levels and everything
associated with it are absolutely optimum. John: Ok J that has been some absolutely important
information on B12 that I definitely agree with. Some of my areas of study lately have
been able to actually grow it organically by pruning the soil and having the bacteria
in the soil that actually produces the B12. Where does the cow get his B12 from? It is
from the soil. Because of soil depletion, the minerals being washed away and the soil
bacteria being deficient, I think that may be one of the issues but it is a J has said,
it is simple and easy to solve, just take a B12 suppliment . I have been doing some
work on this to improve my soil to make the plants have the B12 and I'll eat them but
until that time I will take the supplement just to be safe .
So are there any other reasons that someone could start eating meat from being a fruitarian
or being a vegan in some instance? Jameth: Yes, and there is actually two reasons.
Is wrong calories -- if you are on a raw foods or a vegan non-animal product diet and you
are eating a thousand calories a day, you feel great, you are losing weight but at some
point your body is starting to become really, really hungry. You are only having a thousand
calories and you need two thousand. What happens is your thyroid which controls your metabolism
will slow your entire metabolism down. This is because your body realizes that it is in
starvation mode, so it slows down the rate at which it makes eye tissue, liver tissue
and muscle tissue, blood cells, everything has to go into life-preservation mode in order
to keep you alive. Your metabolism slows down and you are totally lethargic. If that is
your comparison and you then go to a meat diet, where all of a sudden you can eat a
lot of calories, you are going to feel better. That is why some people will say, " I needed
to go on that meat diet, the McDonald's diet." Let us compare apples to apples and you do
not have to compromise your ethics or damage yourself or the plant.
John: what about too many calories, can that cause me to eat meat and go toward the dark
side? Jameth: Yes. An otherwise good diet, clean,
pure, organic, non toxic kick *** diet but has 50% fat; fat being a huge source of calories,
it makes you sluggish, it makes you fat. When you are fat it makes you have more energy
issues as opposed to when you are not fat. It taxes your body tremendously. So if you
go on a weight loss diet or a body-type diet that has leaner meat, all of a sudden you
move from a four thousand calorie bluhg that is high in fat to a two thousand calorie diet,
you star to lose weight and you begin to feel better, you might say "woa, I never want to
be on a vegan diet again". But you were eating way too much nuts and seeds and you needed
to be eating more vegan cooked foods like legumes, like healthy grains, like potatoes,
like steamed vegetables that are nourishing. One other reason that we have not talked about
that is very popular is people who go on a paleo-type diet or a meat-type diet and say
veganism never worked. If you really do have gluten intolerance, then gluten free Is really
popular because "gluten is poison, gluten will kill you". That is what I would say is
a quarter truth because for a quarter of the people in the world, maybe less, they are
gluten intolerant, gluten will kill them. So if you are gluten intolerant and you go
from a plant diet with gluten in it to a gluten free diet, which happens to include meat,
then you have gotten rid of gluten and you feel so much better, you end up giving the
non- plant based diet the credit, when you were simply gluten intolerant. You could move
from a plant diet that could take your bones down to an animal diet that could take your
bones down just as much. You end up moving from one poison to the next and you don't
need to do that. There is a difference between gluten intolerance and wheat allergy. If you
have wheat allergy then you are allergic to wheat, real hybrid wheat, you get nasal, you
get sniffly, flu-type symptoms and so forth but you are able to eat products with gluten
in it with no symptoms at all. That is different from gluten intolerance where you cannot eat
anything containing gluten at all. Gluten free vegan is easy to do. I am 99% gluten
free, my wife is 100%, I have to be, otherwise, she isn't.
Another reason people abandon a plant based diet for something else when all they had
to do was to remove gluten from their diet. My point is, no matter what biochemistry you
are, it my clinical experience, my research experience, my life experience with people
that we can absolutely solve that the best within a whole plant food paradigm. It is
the best solution within that giant framework of options.
John: wow, this has been very informational. You guys have had full on lecture here free
on youtube so that you can now eat more plants, stay raw, stay plant based instead of going
to the meat, going to the darkside. There is so much information but I want to sum this
up for some of the people, we went over all the detailed information but I want to give
them some of the guidelines that can be really helpful in a right amount for them. And of
course we can't say what that is, you don't want to get too much of these nutrients, but
you do not want to get too little. So the number one thing to do if you are eating fruits
or a raw-foods diet and you are considering meat is what?
Jameth: Make sure that you are not eating too much sugar
John: Not fruit, too much sugar.. Jameth: that's correct
John: excellent. You have to balance that out with other foods because there is a whole
lot of foods out there that you just heard in this talk here that you can eat that are
quite healthy. So number 2. What is another thing that we
need to do? Jameth: Make sure that you are eating enough
foods that are nutrient dense. The other foods you are eating other than fruit should not
be white sugar, white flour that has no nutrients. That is crap! You have to have nutrient dense
foods. John: leafy green foods, food powders that
make it absolutely easy to eat and consume if you don't want to harvest from your own
garden. Jameth: Even if you harvest from your own
garden, you have to ensure that you are having those nutrient dense foods, fruits and vegetables.
John: and someone can get the sufficient nutrients by eating a wide variety of fruits and vegetables
without buying the powder in a bottle? Jameth: Yes...I have never seen someone on
a healthy enough diet in today's day and age where this would not make it even better.
John: I definitely agree I have a personal testimonial experience, I have been taking
vitamin mineral grain for many years and I just feel better when I take it.
Ok what other things do we need to do besides eating nutrient dense foods
John: And eat a wide variety of foods and not eat too much sugar and fruit
Jameth: You need to make sure that you get enough protein in your diet, protein is going
to work for you and in some people its peanuts and seeds but if you are eating too much peanuts
and seeds, sometimes you may end up eating too much fat. You will have all the issues
that we talked about earlier. You will have too many calories. I will ask you to be open
to adding legumes, legumes have got to be cooked, they form when they are sprouted and
when they are not cooked, you have to cook them. The protein in there is a total different
quality from nuts and seeds that many people require that protein and that vital estrogenic
balance for them to be healthy and for them to build muscle. Some people actually have
better result with proteins from grains than they do with proteins from nuts and seeds.
There is nothing wrong with nuts and seeds unless of course you are gluten intolerant
and are to eat grains that are completely gluten free.
John: I definitely agree, you have to have enough protein and I happen to eat 99.99%
raw foods and that is the way I want to do it but that does not mean that you have to
do that. In my opinion, cooking your food is far better than eating meat and going to
the dark side of animal products. Sheridan: we are not talking about frying,
but about wet heat, steaming or boiling. So John, you are 99.99% raw, you are still
here, you are strong... John: yeah, though I don't know if I could
beat you at arm wrestling... Jameth: you are monitoring your health, you
are a completely vibrant guy, who was severely compromised before doing this, but you are
not now. So I would not beat down your door and tell you that you have to have something
cooked, but if you were emaciated, if it were something you need that could only be derived
from something that had to be cooked, then I would be beating him up and I could because
he would be so weak that I could take him easy. I am not *** John because he is
healthy but I am *** some people who have gone the other direction.
John: We are giving you options if that Is what you want to do,...what this is all about
is about balance. Too much of any one thing is not good enough you want to eat a wide
variety, little bits of everything so that you can have a balanced diet.
Jameth: What you have created in your garden is ...when you are eating those peas when
they are fresh, when the water content is there, you are getting the protein that most
people do not get when they are matured. You are eating the garden of Eden.
John: and I will teach you other guys how to do that on my other video on my other youtube
channel. Over 700 videos at www.growingyourgreens.com , that is why I am so passionate about growing
food because that is one of my answers to living sustainably on this diet, by growing
your food, the highest quality food that you cannot find in a bottle.
Jameth: All the factors being equal, fresh is better.
John: So Jameth, what other nutrients do we need so that we do not have to go to the dark
side and start eating meat? Jameth: The other nutrient we talked about
is iron. Heme iron being from animal products having a toxicity, meaning an oxidant-craving
free radical actually killing children and damaging adults, sometimes killing them when
they get too much. Make sure you get enough from greens, it is non-toxic and is completely
absorbable, balances absorption in plants and you cannot absorb too much from plants,
the plant doesn't let you, the body does not let you. You have to make that selective decision,
that is totally different so make sure you have enough greens in your diet.
John: Yeah, greens are very important that is why I like to eat a balance of greens and
my fruits. A lot of people are eating, in my opinion, too much fruits without enough
greens. There are so many different varieties of greens to eat than just romaine lettuce.
There is a whole spectrum of fibre chemicals that I want you guys to eat.
Jameth: and if you think, well I am busy, I cannot do that, I am busy, and then get
a bottle of plant based protein. It has a combination of ultra high mineral absorbable
that I got that Mother Nature made that I just assembled and put in a bottle. There
is a massive influx of whole food nutrients that you can take anywhere. It is a super-food
concentrate. John: Great, so what other foods do we need
to be sure that we don't start eating meat? Jameth: B12. 40% of the meat eating population
is deficient in B12. Two things, the easiest thing for the average person to do is to just
take a B12 supplement. If you are going to do it without a supplement, at least every
year get your metabolic acid level checked and make sure that you are B12 sufficient
and if you are not, take a supplement and that will solve the problem. Whether you are
eating meat or not, 40% of the meat eating population is B12 deficient, it is not a vegan-based
issue. John: The next thing you need to be eating
lest you start craving some salt. We need an adequate amount of salt, too much is not
good, you want to get just enough so that's right for you and you want to figure out how
much that is. I entreat you to only get it from whole food stores whenever possible,
you got to eat a lot of celery to get it from celery so there is something like sea vegetables,
and what are some of the other sources Jameth? Jameth: sea vegetables are a great source,
celtic sea salt, Himalayan sea salt, there lots of varieties, some I like, some don't.
Salts that have a hundred or so other minerals in them with 50 to 60% minerals in small quantities,
not just refined iodized inorganic toxic crap. This is a whole different world of salt that
is totally healthier. John: And will have a video for you on salts
specifically so stay tuned for that. So Jameth are there any other things that we need to
do, once again this is a summary for you guys. You need to make a check list of these things.
There are so many things that you need to eat and if you are not paying attention like
a researcher or like me where I really want to make sure that I get all my nutrients so
I am not nutrient deficient so that I do not go to the dark side because we are taught
in our society to follow the leader and if the leader is not getting it right, and the
leader is the exception to the rule, and you follow the leader then you might not be getting
the same results so you need to start thinking for yourselves and monitoring your health
and be smart about things and you always need to do what I say on my garden channel, "learn
as you grow." Living and learning you will have to grow and modify your approaches. If
you are not getting the results you don't just immediately go to the dark side ...
Jameth: you just throw the baby out with the bathwater!
John: ...you just change some things to get the results you need. Jameth is going to tell
us about his book that is coming out that will deal with a lot of these issues to help
everybody get healthier. Jameth: In about six months it is going to
come out, I have dedicated some time to finishing it. I have been working on it for over fifteen
years. It is going to present a whole new paradigm in healthy eating and in raw food
eating, showing exactly why it is absolutely critical, with new definitive information
why we must absolutely be plant eaters to be healthy. Why raw is phenomenally good for
you and If you want to be optimally healthy then you need to include a high percentage
of high water content raw foods in your diet or its just not going to happen you need to
have enough and that is going to vary depending on people. It is going to create a whole new
paradigm and a lot of controversy but I am a raw warrior embracing the biology and not
the philosophy. John: It is like I have said many times, raw
is not the law. It is all about being healthy. If I have to eat something cooked, whole plant
based products to get healthier I would but to this date I have not found the need or
the desire to do that but with this new information coming out, I might need to change my mind
about that. Jameth: To be all raw in my life right now
I would have to make a choice. If I am being all raw and athletic , I will have a choice
to make for my metabolism. I would need to eat too much sugar because I would have a
lot of calories coming in or I will have to eat too much fat from seed and avocados because
I cannot do it alone on vegetables because I am not getting enough calories coming in,
and I have done that before overall. I have done too much fat and I have done too much
sugar and it is bad. I have no choice, in order to thrive, than to eat whole food cooked
things. It is required in that sense. Was that required in the garden? NO! But is it
a required reality now for the vast majority of people? In my experience the answer is
yes! I want you to be healthy. If you are thriving like a maniac and you are ok, everything
is perfect, then don't do nothing different! If you are not, do.
John: you are absolutely right. So Jameth how can somebody learn more from you, your
work and purchasing some of your products? Jameth: They can go to www.healthforce.com
or www.warriorforce.com , neither of which are talking about my book right now but I
will have the links to that book. John: I hope you use this information to change
your life for the positive. There is so much information contained in this, you might even
want to watch it a second time. So Jameth I want to thank you for this time that you
have shared to educate my viewers about this stuff so that they don't have to go to the
dark side
and they can still live a healthy whole food, plant based primarily raw foods diet.
Jameth: Yes, I want you to be healthy and I want you to be happy and I want the world to be a healthier and happy more compassionate place
all at the same time and we can do that. John: Thank you Jameth and I hope you guys
enjoyed this episode and once again
my name is John Kohler with OK Raw.com we will see you next time and just remember,
to keep eating your fruits and vegetables, they
are
the best.