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>> IT'S TIME.
>> IT'S TIME.
♪
>> HERMAN: WELCOME TO OUR
SPECIAL PROGRAM THAT WE'RE DOING
WITH DR. DAVID ANDERSON.
HE HAPPENS TO BE MY FAVORITE
SON-IN-LAW.
A SENIOR PASTOR OF THE FAITH
BAPTIST CHURCH IN SARASOTA,
FLORIDA.
GO ONLINE AND YOU CAN FIND OUT
EXACTLY WHERE THAT LOCATION
MIGHT BE.
IT'S OUR CHURCH AND WE HAVE THE
PRIVILEGE OF DOING SOME PROGRAMS
ON BIBLE TEACHING, WHICH IS KIND
OF RARE ON CHRISTIAN TELEVISION.
>> HAVE YOU SEEN ANY LATELY?
>> IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK.
WE DID SOME ON THE CONSTITUTION.
AND, HOPEFULLY, THE ONES ON THE
BIBLE WILL BE JUST AS POPULAR
AND RESPONSIVE.
WE WERE JUST TALKING BEFORE WE
WENT ON THE AIR, BUT YOU WERE
AWARE OF SOMEONE BEING ASKED
ABOUT PREACHING ON HELL, AND A
GROUP OF PASTORS.
>> YES, I WAS READING AN ARTICLE
ABOUT ONE OF THE MOST -- AT ONE
OF THE RECENT BAPTIST SEMINARS
THEY HAD AND ONE OF BREAKOUT
GROUPS WAS OBJECT PREACHING HELL
TO A CULTURE THAT NO LONGER
BELIEVES IN IT, LIKE HOW DO YOU
THAT EFFECTIVELY.
THE GUEST SPEAKER ASKED HOW MANY
PASTORS THERE HAD PREACHED ABOUT
HELL IN THE LAST YEAR AND THERE
WERE NO HANDS THAT WENT UP.
SO THEN HE ASKED, HOW MANY OF
YOU HAVE PREACHED ABOUT HELL IN
YOUR MINISTRY, AND NO HANDS WENT
UP.
SO THE DISCUSSION THEN TOOK TO
WHY DO WE FIND IT SO DIFFICULT
TO TALK ABOUT HELL?
>> T.
>> HERMAN: WHY?
>> IT'S AN UNPLEASANT
CONVERSATION.
IT'S NOT AN EXCITABLE THING,
WHERE YOU GET ALL EXCITED, A BIG
SMILE ON YOUR FACE.
IT'S EXTREMELY SAD AND
DISTURBING THAT A PLACE LIKE
THAT EVEN EXISTS.
>> HERMAN: THE REASON I'VE GOT
THIS SMILE ON MY FACE.
I REMEMBER WHEN YOU WERE ASKED
TO COME TO A TELETHON, AND DAVID
--
[INAUDIBLE]
YOU COULDN'T REALLY HEAR THE
MESSAGE BECAUSE THE PHONE WAS
RINGING SO MUCH.
I MEAN, IT WAS SO AMAZING THAT
WHEN YOU FINISHED, THERE WASN'T
A RESPONSE AT ALL.
>> NO.
BEFORE I GOT UP THERE I WAS IN
THE ROOM AND HEARD THE PHONES
RINGING NON-STOP FROM THE
PREVIOUS PREACHER.
I GOT TO SPEAK AND IT TURNED
SILENT FOR 15 MINUTES.
>> HERMAN: THE PREACHER WAS
TELLING HOW TO GET OUT OF DEBT,
HAVE THE MORTGAGE PAID OFF OR
WHATEVER, AND THEN YOU GET UP
AND HAVE THE AUDACITY TO PREACH
HELL FROM THE BIBLE.
LET ME START WITH THIS VERSE
BECAUSE IT'S AMAZING.
IF GOD SPARED NOT THE ANGELS
THAT SINNED, BUT CAST THEM DOWN
TO HELL, AND DELIVERED THEM INTO
CHAINS OF DARKNESS TO BE
RESERVED UNTIL JUDGMENT, NOW,
YOU POINT OUT, AND WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OF
HELL ON THE SCREEN FROM TIME TO
TIME, BUT YOU POINT OUT, THERE
ARE DIFFERENT PLACES, MEANING,
DIFFERENT WORDS ABOUT HELL.
HOW DOES THAT WORK?
>> OFTEN WHEN WE SAY THE WORD
HELL WE'RE ENCOMPASSING A WHOLE
REALM OF ACTIVITY.
THE LAKE OF FIRE, THE BOTTOMLESS
PIT, WHERE THE ANGELS ARE
CHAINED.
AND THEN JUST THE GRAVE.
THE PLACE OF THE DEAD.
SO WHEN A BELIEVER OR PASTOR
SAYS YOU WILL GO TO HELL IF YOU
DON'T BELIEVE IN CHRIST, HE'S
REFERRING TO A NUMBER OF THINGS,
BUT, IN TODAY'S CULTURE, WHEN
PEOPLE ARGUE THAT HELL CAN'T
EXIST BECAUSE IT'S TOO HORRIBLE
THEY ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT ONE
PARTICULAR PART OF HELL, THE
LAKE OF FIRE THAT CAUSES THEM
DIFFICULTY BECAUSE IT SEEMS TOO
CRUEL AND HARSH.
>> SHARRON AND I WERE LISTENING
TO THE BIBLE BROADCASTING
NETWORK OUT OF CHARLOTTE, AM I
RIGHT?
AND McGEE WAS ON.
I DIDN'T REALIZE, BUT HE DOESN'T
BELIEVE ABOUT THE LAKE OF FIRE.
>> THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD BIBLE
PREACHERS FROM THE PAST WHO DID
NOT BELIEVE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE.
THEY BELIEVED IT'S AN IMMEDIATE
DEATH, WHERE YOU'RE JUST
DESTROYED OR YOU LIVE IN A PLACE
OF DESTRUCTION AND SORROW, BUT
THERE IS NO LAKE OF FIRE.
>> HERMAN: HE BELIEVES
SEPARATION FROM GOD.
>> YES.
>> HERMAN: THAT'S THE HELL
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> YES.
>> HERMAN: BUT JESUS USED SOME
PRETTY GRAPHIC LANGUAGE
DESCRIBING THIS PLACE OF
SEPARATION, AND THAT'S MY
DIFFICULTY WITH THAT
PRESENTATION.
THE LAKE OF FIRE DOESN'T REALLY
EXIST AS A LITERAL LAKE OF FIRE
BECAUSE THE LORD'S WORDS ARE SO
GRAPHIC.
WHY WOULD HE USE THOSE WORDS TO
PORTRAY SOMETHING THAT WILL
CREATE AN IMAGERY IN YOUR MIND
IF IT'S NOT REALLY THERE?
>> HERMAN: THAT'S WHY WE HAVE
YOU HERE.
TO GET IT ALL STRAIGHT.
>> COMMON VIEWS OPPOSING THE
LAKE OF FIRE.
>> WELL, FIRST, ANNIHILATIONISM,
IF YOU DIE AS AN UNBELIEVER, AND
THIS IS WHAT SOME OF THE CULTS
MIGHT BELIEVE, YOU'RE SIMPLY
DESTROYED.
YOU NO LONGER EXIST AT ALL
FOREVER.
THAT TAKES AWAY THE PAIN OF
REALIZING THAT MY AUNT OR MY
UNCLE OR MY GRANDFATHER WERE NOT
BELIEVERS, NO LONGER SUFFERING,
THEY HAVE JUST BEEN ANNIHILATED.
THE OTHER IS THE IDEA OF A
SECOND CHANCE.
THEY MAY GO TO HELL BUT THEY CAN
GET OUT IF BELIEVERS WHO ARE
ALIVE DO SOMETHING TO HELP THEM.
SAYING PRAYERS, GIVING
OFFERINGS, DOING SOMETHING TO
GET THEM OUT OF HELL.
SO THAT'S THE SECOND CHANCE.
AND THE THIRD ONE, WHICH IS
POPULAR TODAY, IS UNIVERSALISM,
WHICH IS THAT IT DOESN'T EVEN
REALLY EXIST.
>> A PREACHER, A YOUNG GUY.
>> YEAH.
THEY ARE ALL OVER.
>> DOES NOT BELIEVE THERE IS A
HELL.
>> I WOULDN'T WANT TO SAY THEIR
NAMES, I DON'T WANT TO QUESTION
ANYBODY'S CHARACTER BECAUSE THEY
ARE WELL INTENDED, BUT THERE ARE
SOME VERY POPULAR PREACHERS,
BIGGEST CHURCHES IN AMERICA, ARE
TEACHING THAT HELL DOES NOT
EXIST AS THE LAKE OF FIRE.
IT'S SIMPLY A PLACE OF THE DEAD
FROM WHICH WE ARE BROUGHT BEFORE
GOD'S PRESENCE AND WE'RE ALL
GOING TO LIVE IN HEAVEN, AND IT
WAS POPULARIZED BY THE BOOK, THE
SHACK.
THAT SWEPT THE NATION TWO OR
THREE YEARS AGO, MANY CHRISTIAN
AUTHORS AND ARTISTS SAID IT WILL
TAKE YOU TO GOD.
>> IT'S IN ALL THE CHRISTIAN
BOOKSTORES.
IT TEACHES THAT NOBODY GOES TO
HELL BECAUSE GOD IS FORGIVING.
OR THE PERSON THAT WROTE IT, IT
JUST CAME OUT THAT WAY.
>> IF HIS STORY IS SORT OF A
HALFWAY AUTOBIOGRAPHY, THE BOOK
THAT I READ, IT'S SORT OF THE
STORY OF HIS LIFE THAT HE WAS
TURNED OFF BY VINDICTIVE,
VENGEFUL, ANGRY GOD, AND HE FELT
HE FINALLY GOT RELIEF WHEN HE
REALIZED GOD IS A LOVING GOD.
>> SURE HE IS A LOVING GOD BUT
LOVE HAS A COUNTER BALANCE.
LOVE HAS TO HAVE JUSTICE AND
RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HOLINESS TO BE
HOLY AT ALL.
TO REMOVE THOSE ELEMENTS IT'S
NOT LOVE.
YOU TAKE AWAY THE VEIN NATURE OF
THE GOD HE'S NO ONLY THE GOD OF
THE BIBLE, A GOD YOU'VE MADE IN
YOUR IMAGE.
THAT'S THE DANGER.
IF WE START PICKING AND
CHOOSING, CAFETERIA-STYLE THAT
MAKE A GOD THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO
US AND FEELS GOOD TO CULTURE
WITHOUT MAKING A PHYSICAL GOD,
WE'VE MADE A GOD OF OUR OWN
MAKING.
>> COMMON ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE
LAKE OF FIRE?
>> ONE WOULD BE A LOVING GOD
WOULD NOT SEND PEOPLE TO A
HORRIBLE HELL.
>> OKAY.
>> AND THAT'S THE MOST COMMON.
HOW CAN A LOVING GOD SEND HIS
GOD TO HELL.
ANGELS WERE ALSO MADE BY GOD.
AND THE ARGUMENT IS, THAT GOD
MADE US, HIS CHILDREN, HOW COULD
A LOVING FATHER SEND HIS
CHILDREN TO HELL?
HE DIDN'T HESITATE TO CHAIN
ANGELS WHO HE CREATED AND
DESIGNED, IN EVERLASTING CHAINS
AND DARKNESS, BECAUSE GOD IS A
HOLY RIGHTEOUS AND JUST GOD WHO
HAS TO DEAL FROM THE VANTAGE
POINT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
IT'S NOT JUST HIS CHARACTER,
IT'S HIS NATURE TO BE OFFENDED
BY SIN SO HELL IS THE
CONSEQUENCE FOR SIN.
AS JESUS SAID IN MATTHEW, HELL
WAS PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND
HIS ANGELS BECAUSE OF THEIR
REBELLION.
MAN DID THE SAME REBELLION.
IT WOULDN'T BE JUST IF THE
PENALTY WAS NOT THE SAME AND GOD
IS A JUST GOD.
>> SPURGEON PREACHED A LAKE OF
FIRE, DIDN'T HE?
>> YES.
>> AND EDWARDS?
>> YES.
>> JONATHAN EDWARDS, ONE OF THE
MOST FAMOUS ONE.
>> SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF A
ANGRY GOD.
>> THAT'S WHAT McGEE SAID, HE
LOVES THESE GUYS BUT THEY GOT IT
WRONG.
>> YES.
AND THERE ARE ARGUMENTS FOR THAT
BECAUSE THE WORD HELL DOESN'T
REALLY APPEAR IN SCRIPTURE.
>> IT DOESN'T, DOES IT?
>> I MEAN, IT'S IN THE KING
JAMES OBVIOUSLY.
BUT THE WORD "HELL" ACTUALLY
ISN'T IN THE BIBLE, IS IT?
>> NOR IS THE WORD JESUS.
NOR IS THE WORD -- ANY ENGLISH
WORD IS NOT IN THE BIBLE BECAUSE
IT'S GREEK AND HEBREW.
>> EXPLAIN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IF
YOU WERE IN A GROUP OF COLLEGE
STUDENTS, WHATEVER, AND SOMEBODY
POPPED THAT IDEA TO YOU, AND YOU
DIDN'T KNOW BETTER, YOU WOULD
BUY IT.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT IN THE
BIBLE?
>> THE LITTLE WORD ISN'T BECAUSE
IT'S AN ENGLISH WORD, AN ENGLISH
SIZE WORD OF A BIBLICAL
PRINCIPLE, WHICH IS THE HEBREW
WORD, SHEOLE, WHICH IS THE
GROVE, THE PLACE OF THE DEAD, IN
THE OLD TESTAMENT.
THEN THERE IS THE GREEK WORD
HADES, WHICH WAS A PAGAN CONCEPT
OF THE PLACE OF THE DEAD WHERE
PEOPLE GO, THAT THE BIBLE DOES
USE IN GREEK, HADES.
THAT'S A WORD WE USE FOR HELL.
THEN THERE IS A GREEK WORD
TARTUS, THE SEPTUAGINT, A PLACE
OF TORMENT FOR UNBELIEVERS.
AND II PETER THAT YOU JUST READ,
THAT'S WORD, WHICH MEANS TO
THROW INTO WHAT WE SAY HELL.
HELL WAS JUST AN ENGLISH WORD
FOR THESE CONCEPTS, AND ANOTHER
ONE IS GAHENNA, A GREEK WORD,
FOR A PLACE OF BURNING OUTSIDE
JERUSALEM THAT JESUS HIMSELF
USED TO DESCRIBE WHAT WE CALL
HELL.
SO THE ARGUMENT THAT HELL IS NOT
IN THE BIBLE IS REALLY JUST A
SEMANTICAL ARGUMENT, WHICH IS
NOT ACCURATE, THE CONCEPT OF
HELL IS DEFINITELY IN THE BIBLE.
>> WHERE IS SHEOLE AND THE OTHER
WORDS ARE USED, ARE THEY UNIFORM
IN ITS MEANING OR BECAUSE THEY
ARE IN THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION,
IT MEANS SOMETHING ELSE?
>> THEY ARE NOT UNIFORM.
THEY DO -- SHEOLEHADES IS THE
PLACE OF THE DEAD.
YOU'VE GOT TO BE DEAD TO GET
THERE.
AND HELL AT SOME POINT IN TIME,
AND THE BIBLE TELLS IN US
REVELATION 20, HELL IS CAST INTO
THE LAKE OF FIRE.
HELL IS THE PLACE OF THE DEAD.
THE PLACE OF THE DEAD IS DIVIDED
INTO TWO MAIN CATEGORIES
ABRAHAM'S ***, WHICH JESUS
TALKED ABOUT, OR PARADISE, WHICH
WAS MENTIONED ON THE CROSS,
WHERE BELIEVERS GO.
THE OTHER PART OF HELL IS WHERE
UNBELIEVERS GO, WHICH IS THE
PLACE OF TORMENT.
GAHANNA, AND HADES.
HELL GENERALLY IS THE PLACE
WHERE THE DEAD GO, BUT THERE ARE
TWO COMPARTMENTS.
THIS WILL BE EMPTIED OUT TO GO
INTO HEAVEN.
THIS ONE WILL BE EMPTIED OUT TO
GO INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE SO IT'S
REALLY A MATTER OF CONFUSING THE
TERMS.
WHEN WE SAY HELL IS REAL, WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT THE LAKE OF FIRE,
WHEN THE BIBLE PREACHERS TODAY
--
>> IS IT LITERAL?
BECAUSE FIGURATIVELY AND
LITERAL, BIG DIFFERENCE.
>> WELL, IT'S LITERAL, BUT IT
MAY NOT BE PHYSICAL.
THE TYPE OF FIRE IS ANOTHER
DIMENSIONAL TYPE OF FIRE.
IT'S A FIRE THAT DOES NOT
CONSUME.
IT JUST DESTROYS, BUT THE THING
THAT'S BURNING STAYS IN
EXISTENCE.
IT CONTINUES TO LIVE AS JESUS
SAID, WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE
WORM IS A GREEK IDIOM FOR THE
ESSENCE OF A MAN'S BEING IN.
HELL, THE WORM WILL NOT DIE, AND
THERE WILL BE WEEPING AND
WAILING, AND KNASHING OF TEETH.
WHETHER THE FLAME IS LITERAL OR
NOT IT'S REAL, PAINFUL, AND
TORMENTING.
IT'S JUST SORT OF ARGUING AN
IRRELEVANT POINT, WONDERING IF
IT'S A FOR FIRE.
>> THE RICH MAN IN LAZARUS,
EXPLAIN THAT ONE, BECAUSE IT'S
LIKE HE COULD LOOK OVER.
>> YES.
>> AND SAY, CAN'T YOU TELL MY
BROTHER ABOUT THIS.
>> AGAIN, ANOTHER HORRIBLY
PAINFULLY GRAPHIC VIVID STORY BY
JESUS.
SOME PEOPLE SAY, IT'S PARABLE,
NOT A HISTORIC EVENT, IT CREATED
SUCH VIVID IMAGERY IN THE MIND
OF LISTENER, THAT JESUS SAID
LAZARUS WENT TO ABRAHAM'S ***,
PLACE OF THE DEAD.
HE COULD LOOK OVER INTO THE
PLACE OF THE DEAD WHERE THE
TORMENTING TOOK PLACE BUT THERE
IS A GREAT CHASM BETWEEN THE TWO
AND YOU CAN'T CROSS OVER BUT HE
COULD SEE OVER THERE.
THE RICH MAN WHEN DIED AND WAS
IN HELL, HE'S BEGGING ABRAHAM TO
SEND SOMEBODY TO HIS BROTHERS
WHO ARE STILL ALIVE, BECAUSE
HE'S TORMENTED IN THE FLAME AND
HE'S BEGGING FOR ONE DROP OF
WATER ON HIS FINGER TO PUT ON
HIS TONGUE.
WHY WOULD THE LORD USE THOSE
STORIES, IF WHATEVER HELL IS,
IT'S NOT A HORRIBLE, MISERABLE
PLACE TO BE AND WHATEVER THE
LAKE OF FIRE IS, IF IT'S NOT
LITERAL PAIN, WHY WOULD HE USE
THAT KIND OF IMAGERY?
>> BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS USE, THEY
GOT THE TRANSLATION WRONG,
RIGHT?
>> NO, YOU CAN'T.
BECAUSE WE HAVE THE MANUSCRIPT.
SEE, THAT'S ONE OF THE
INTERESTING THINGS, PEOPLE
ARGUING WHETHER OR NOT THE BIBLE
SAYS THIS, WHAT THEY ARE SAYING
THIS, WHAT THE BIBLE CLEARLY
SAYS ABOUT HELL AND THE LAKE OF
FIRE, IT DOESN'T MEAN WHAT IT
SAYS.
THAT'S THE BASIS OF THEIR
ARGUMENT.
WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
LORD REALLY MEANT BUT IT'S
PRETTY PLAIN AND HE SAYS IT
AGAIN AND AGAIN.
>> IT'S INTERESTING THAT, EVEN
IF HE WERE TO COME BACK AND WARN
THEM, LOOK, IF THIS IS TRUE,
THEY SAID, THEY STILL WOULDN'T
BELIEF.
>> STILL WOULDN'T BELIEVE HIM.
JESUS RESURRECTION WILL NOT
CHANGE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE'S
MINDS.
>> WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?
IT'S LIKE, OKAY, BECAUSE IF WE
HAD 10 PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM AND
THEY WERE LOST, AND YOU WERE TO
TALK TO THEM ABOUT THIS SUBJECT,
IT WOULD BE TO ME OBVIOUS THAT
THEY WOULD GO, YOU KNOW WHAT?
I'LL PRAY WITH YOU.
>> I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE.
SO IT'S PRETTY GRAPHIC THAT THIS
EXAMPLE MEANT THAT THEY WOULD
NOT COME TO CHRIST EVEN IF HE
WERE TO COME BACK.
>> IN REALITY, THE BIBLE TEACHES
US, THAT NONE OF US WOULD COME
TO CHRIST IF HE DIDN'T DRAW US
BECAUSE OUR HEARTS ARE SO HARD
WE DISMISS ANY ACCOUNTABILITY
FOR SIN.
WE EVEN DISMISS THE REALITY OF
SIN AND THE BIBLE SAYS WE LOVE
SIN WITH AGAPE LOVE.
SO WE HAVE AGAPE LOVE FOR SIN SO
WE DON'T SEE THE NEGATIVE
CONSEQUENCES, DON'T BELIEVE THEY
ARE THERE, AND DISMISS THEM SO
WE CONTINUE IN OUR SELF
INDULGENT LIVES.
SO A MAN WHO IS IN THAT STATUS
HEARING THE GOSPEL OR THREAT OF
HELL HE DISMISSES IT AS BEING
EITHER IRRELEVANT OR IT DOESN'T
MATTER BUT THESE PREACHERS WHO
ARE PREACHING THAT DOCTRINE THEY
ARE DOING A GREAT DISSERVICE
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER IF
PEOPLE ARE COMING TO THE GOD
THEY ARE PRESENTING.
IF IT'S NOT THE GOD WHO IS IN
THE BIBLE, THEY ARE NOT COMING
TO GOD.
AND IF WE ALTER THE TRUTH IN ANY
WAY, WE MAKE THE TRUTH A LIE.
AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT
PREROGATIVE AS PREACHERS OF THE
GOSPEL.
MY PROBLEM WITH THE ISSUE OF
UNIVERSALISM, THAT EVERYBODY
GOES TO HEAVEN AND THE LAKE OF
FIRE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST, IT
SOUNDS WONDERFUL.
I WISH THAT WERE TRUE BUT IT'S
NOT BECAUSE THE BIBLE CLEARLY
SAYS IT.
I DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT, AS A
COMMUNICATOR OF GOD'S WORD TO
CHANGE WHAT GOD HAS SAID,
BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE
RAMIFICATIONS OF IT.
>> IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE OR
MAKES PEOPLE NOT WANT TO COME TO
MY CHURCH.
>> THAT'S NOT A CHOICE I'M
ALLOWED TO MAKE.
>> TO PUT A MESSAGE TOGETHER, TO
PREACH FROM YOUR PULPIT ABOUT
HELL, TOUGH?
>> IT'S TOUGH -- IT'S
UNPLEASANT.
BECAUSE WHENEVER I START
THINKING ABOUT HELL, I KNOW SOME
PEOPLE WHO ARE EITHER GOING
THERE WHO ARE THERE.
AND IT'S HEARTBREAKING.
BUT WHAT REMIND ME TO DO IT
ANYWAY IS BECAUSE I GOT SAVED
BECAUSE OF A SERVICE I WENT TO
WHERE THEY PRESENTED HELL AND
THEY SAID, YOU'RE GOING THERE,
AND I WAS A CHRISTIAN SCIENTIST
WHO DIDN'T EVEN BELIEVE HELL
EXISTED.
AND I'M SITTING THERE IN THAT
SERVICE AND I'M HEARING THIS
BIBLICAL PRESENTATION OF HELL
AND IT'S SO SHATTERED THROUGH
ALL MY NEW AGE UNIVERSAL, I'M
OKAY WITH GOD GARBAGE THOUGHT,
IT SHATTERED RIGHT THROUGH THAT
WITH A REAL PENDING DANGER THAT
IF I DIED THAT NIGHT, I WOULD BE
FOREVER IN HELL.
>> YOU ACTUALLY BOUGHT THAT?
>> I BOUGHT IT.
AND IT REVEALED TO ME GOD'S REAL
GRACE.
WHERE IS GOD'S GRACE IF NO ONE
IS GOING TO HELL?
THE GRACE OF GOD IS THAT HE'S
SAVING FROM US THIS PLACE THAT
WE CHOSE THROUGH OUR SIN.
WE CREATED, AND IT'S OUR DESTINY
BECAUSE OF OUR OWN DELIBERATE
SIN, HIS GRACE IS HE'S TAKING US
OFF THAT PATH AND PUTTING US ON
THAT NARROW PATH TO HEAVEN.
THAT'S GOD'S GRACE.
FOR A CHRISTIAN TO DISMISS HELL,
WE'RE DISMISSING ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT MAKE US REJOICE THAT
WE'RE SAVED.
I SAY TO YOU, HERMAN, YOU'RE
SAVED TODAY BUT WHAT ARE YOU
SAVED FROM IF HELL DOESN'T
EXIST?
WHAT ARE YOU SAVED FROM IF IT'S
JUST ANNIHILATION.
WHAT ARE YOU SAVED FROM IF THERE
IS NO TORMENT?
YOU'RE SAVED FROM NOT ONLY YOUR
SIN AND SEPARATION FROM GOD,
YOU'RE SAVED FROM THE LAKE OF
FIRE, AND THAT ALONE SHOULD MAKE
ALL OF US SAY PRAISE GOD,
HALLELUJAH, WHATEVER HAPPENS
TODAY I'VE BEEN SAVED FROM HELL.
>> OKAY.
LAKE OF FIRE.
>> YES.
>> IS THAT AN ENGLISH TERM?
OR IS THIS -- IS IT TRANSLATED
TO SOMETHING ELSE IF YOU GO INTO
THE GREEK AND THE HEBREW AND ALL
OF THAT.
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION,
BECAUSE NO ONE ARGUES THAT.
THERE IS NOT ANYBODY WHO SAYS
THAT THE LAKE OF FIRE IS AN
IMPROPER TRANSLATION, BECAUSE
IT'S THE EXACT WORDS OF THE
GREEK LANGUAGE, LAKE OF FIRE, IN
THAT PHRASE IN REVELATION.
WHAT THEY WANT TO DEBATE IS,
WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
AND WAS IT REALLY A SPECIFIC
THING THAT WE'RE BEING WARNED
ABOUT OR IS IT JUST REPRESENTING
SOMETHING?
BUT THE WORDS OF REVELATION,
DEATH AND HELL WERE CAST INTO
THE LAKE OF FIRE, ANYONE NOT
FOUND IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS
CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
I READ ONE GENTLEMAN'S ARGUMENTS
FOR WHY IT TEACHES THERE IS NO
LAKE OF FIRE, IF DEATH IS THROWN
INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND DEATH
HAS THE SECOND DEATH, SCIENCE
TEACHES US THAT TWO NEGATIVES
MAKE A POSITIVE.
SO DEATH GOING INTO THE LAKE OF
FIRE CREATES LIFE.
SO, THEY DON'T DENY THE WORDS
ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE.
WHAT THEY DENY IS WHAT IT
ACTUALLY MEANS?
I THINK IT'S CRYSTAL CLEAR.
IT'S IN SUCH PLAIN LANGUAGE THAT
JESUS SAYS HE'LL DRINK OF THE
WRATH OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD.
THAT'S NOT A PLEASANT SCENARIO
AT ALL.
>> WOW.
>> ETERNAL TORTURE.
DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SOMETHING GOD
WOULD DO.
I READ A BOOK, THAT STATEMENT
WAS IN IT.
>> YES.
>> HOW DO WE EXPLAIN THAT?
>> IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE
SOMETHING GOD WOULD DO UNLESS
YOU'RE READING THE BIBLE BECAUSE
GOD IS A HARSH, TASKMASTER.
THE BIBLE SAYS HE'S A CONSUMING
FIRE.
HE'S SO HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS, IF
WE WERE TO SEE HIM WE WOULD FALL
ON OUR FACES AS A DEAD MAN.
THIS IS THE SAME GOD WHO DROWNED
ALL THE EGYPTIANS CHASING THE
ISRAELITES WHEN THE WATER
CRUSHED DOWN ON THEM.
THIS IS THE SAME GOD WHO FLOODED
THE WORLD TO RID IT OF SIN AND
SAVED ONLY NOAH.
THIS IS THE SAME GOD WHO KILLED
MANY JERICHO CITIZENS WHEN THE
WALL CAVED IN.
THIS IS THE SAME GOD WHO OPENED
UP THE EARTH AND SWALLOWED THE
ISRAELITES WHO WERE REBELLING.
GOD IS A GOD THAT'S RIGHTEOUS AN
HOLY.
IT'S THE WICKEDNESS OF MAN
SAYING THAT HE WON'T PUNISH US
FOR WHAT WE DO.
>> ISN'T THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT
GOD?
THE NEW TESTAMENT GOD LOVES ME
SO MUCH, HE WOULDN'T SEND ME TO
HELL.
>> EXCEPT THE NEW TESTAMENT SAYS
JESUS CHRIST, THE SAME
YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER.
IT'S THE SAME GOD, JUST A
DIFFERENT ASPECT OF HIM THAT WAS
EMPHASIZED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT,
BUT IT'S THE SAME GOD.
ALL THE PRINCIPLES IN THE NEW
TESTAMENT DERIVE FROM OLD
TESTAMENT TEACHING AND TRUTH.
THE OLD TESTAMENT IS THE STORY
OF ISRAEL.
THE NEW TESTAMENT IS THE STORY
OF THE CHURCH, AFTER THE DEATH
OF CHRIST.
ISRAEL IS BEFORE THE DEATH OF
CHRIST.
SO THE WAY GOD HAS DEALT WITH
MAN APPEARS TO BE DIFFERENT FROM
OUR PERSPECTIVE, BUT IT'S THE
SAME GOD.
AND THE GOD WHO IS HOLY AND
RIGHTEOUS IS ALSO JUST AS
LOVING.
THIS IS AN AMAZING ASPECT OF THE
GOSPEL.
A GOD THAT'S HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS,
UNTIL HE HAS TO PUNISH SIN AND
WE HAVE TO FALL DOWN ON OUR
KNEES AND FEAR HIM.
BUT HIS MERCY ENDURES FOREVER.
HOW DO THOSE TWO THINGS, HOW DO
THEY MEET AND GET RECONCILED?
THEY ARE RECONCILED THROUGH THE
MOST BRUTAL ACT IN HUMAN
HISTORY, THE CRUCIFIXION OF
JESUS CHRIST.
THE BIBLE SAID, IN ISAIAH, IT
PLEASED THE FATHER TO BRUISE
HIM.
THE ONLY WAY GOD COULD SATISFY
HIS WRATH AND LIVE OUT HIS LOVE
WAS TO PUNISH AND BRUTALIZE HIS
OWN SON.
THAT'S THE RIGHTEOUSNESS,
MEANING THE LOVE OF GOD IN
COMPLETE HARMONY WITH HIS CAST.
TO ME, IT WOULD BE FAR MORE
VICIOUS AND CRUEL AND PRO PROS
TRUSS TO THINK MAN IS NOT GOING
TO HELL, WHY DID GOD KILL HIS
SON?
WHERE IS THE NEED FOR
CRUCIFIXION
>> HE DIED ON THAT CROSS, GAVE
HIS LIFE, SHED HIS BLOOD, WENT
TO THE GRAVE, AND ROSE THE THIRD
DAY.
YES.
>> HE DID THAT SO THAT WE WOULD
BE FORGIVEN OF ALL OF OUR SINS.
>> YES.
>> SO WHEN HE DID THAT, ALL
MANKIND WAS FORGIVEN?
>> THAT'S WHAT THE UNIVERSALISTS
BELIEVE.
BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE THE
GOSPEL, BUT THEY APPLY TO IT ALL
OF THOSE WHO HAVEN'T EVEN
BELIEVED.
BUT THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS IF
YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH THE
LORD JESUS AND BELIEVE IN YOUR
HEART THAT GOT RAISED HIM FROM
THE DEAD YOU SHALL BE SAVED.
THERE IS A CONTINGENT, AND THE
CONTINGENT IS FAITH.
IS BELIEVING.
THAT'S WHY THE BIBLE SAYS, FOR
BY GRACE YOU ARE SAVED THROUGH
FAITH, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELF.
IT'S THE GIFT OF GOD.
HE DOESN'T GIVE IT TO EVERYBODY.
HE GIVES TO IT THOSE WHO RESPOND
BY FAITH IN THE MESSAGE.
>> I THOUGHT I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO
ANYTHING FOR MY SALVATION.
DOES THAT MEAN I'M DOING
SOMETHING?
>> FAITH IS NOT A RESPONSE OF
YOUR SPIRIT AND YOUR SOUL AND
YOUR HEART AND MIND.
IT'S A RESPONSE THAT GOD DRAWS
OUT OF YOU, BUT IT'S STILL A
RESPONSE.
IT'S NOT A DEED.
IT'S NOT AN ACT OF SERVICE.
IT IS A RESPONSE.
MUCH AS, IF YOU WERE OUT IN THE
OCEAN, 55 MILES AWAY FROM LAND,
YOU WERE DROWNING, AND A BOAT
PULLED UP TO YOU, AND THREW YOU
A LIFE PRESERVER AND IT FELL
AROUND YOUR HEAD.
YOU DID NOT SAVE YOURSELF.
BUT YOU DID CHOOSE TO GRAB ON TO
THE LIFESAVER.
YOU DIDN'T DO A GOOD DEED.
THE BOAT AND THE LIFE PRESERVER
AND ROPE, ALL OF THAT IS WHAT
SAVED YOU.
THE LORD SAVED US COMPLETELY BUT
HE DOES SAY TO US, YOU MUST
BELIEVE TO BE SAVED.
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.
YOU CAN'T MAKE YOURSELF BE BORN
AGAIN.
BUT YOU HAVE TO BE BORN AGAIN TO
BE A BELIEVER.
THE BORN AGAIN HAPPENS THROUGH
YOUR RESPONSE OF FAITH TO THE
DEATH AND BURIAL AND
RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST.
AND THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS, YOU
MUST BELIEVE TO BE SAVED.
THERE IS NO WAY TO TAKE THAT
OUT, EXCEPT THROUGH SELECTIVE
EDITING
>> A PERSON WATCHING THIS, IF
THEY DON'T TRUST CHRIST, THE
LAKE OF FIRE, IF THEY DIE, WILL
BE THEIR BODE?
THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE?
>> THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE,
AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES PREACHING
AND TEACHING ABOUT THE LAKE OF
FIRE SO DIFFICULT.
THAT'S WHY IT'S SO UNPOPULAR,
BECAUSE IT'S INSULTING, IT'S
OFFENSIVE, IT'S NOT A HAPPY,
CHEERY TOPIC.
IF YOU'RE A NON-BELIEVER YOU
WOULD SAY WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME
I'M GOING TO GO TO HELL?
BUT I THANK GOD, AUGUST 19,
1970, THERE WAS A PREACHER WHO
STOOD UP AND PUT A FINGER IN MY
FACE AND SAID, YOU'RE GOING TO
GO TO HELL IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE
IN JESUS CHRIST BECAUSE YOU'RE A
SINNER.
IT MADE ME RETHINK, AM I A
SINNER?
IT WAS THE THREAT OF HELL THAT
MADE ME REASSESS MY WHOLE
STANDING WITH GOD, AND MADE ME
REALIZE, I AM A SINNER, I'M
GOING TOWARDS HELL AND I DIDN'T
EVEN KNOW IT, BECAUSE MY CHURCH
WAS TEACHING ME, IT'S ALL
FORGIVEN, WE'RE ALL GOING TO
HEAVEN.
THAT'S THE CRUELLEST MESSAGE AND
THAT'S WHAT'S BECOMING POPULAR
IN CHURCH BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS
TO HEAR IT.
>> EVERYBODY WANTS TO LEAVE
CHURCH FEELING GOOD.
>> FEELING GOOD.
>> RATHER THAN FEELING LIKE
YOU'VE JUST BEEN ASKED A
QUESTION AND YOU HAVE NO ANSWER.
>> YES.
>> AND PASTORS, WE WANT PEOPLE
TO FEEL GOOD, TOO.
BUT THAT'S NOT OUR CALLING.
OUR CALLING ISN'T TO MAKE PEOPLE
FEEL GOOD.
OUR CALLING IS TO TEACH AND
PREACH THE WORD OF GOD, SO THAT
PEOPLE CAN BE RECONCILED TO GOD
THROUGH THE MESSAGE OF THE
GOSPEL, AND AS THE BIBLE TEACHES
THROUGHOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT AND
NEW TESTAMENT, IT ALWAYS COMES
DOWN TO REPENTANCE.
IF A MAN'S HEART IS BROKEN, HE
REPENTS.
WITHOUT THAT THERE IS NO GRACE
OF SALVATION.
>> THERE MIGHT BE A YOUNG DAVID
ANDERSON WATCHING.
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IN HEAVEN OR
HELL OR NOT, IF YOU WERE TO
ACCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU WERE
CREATED BY GOD AND HE REALLY,
TRULY IS THE MASTER OF ALL
THINGS AND THE MAKER OF ALL
THINGS AND HE'S HOLY AND
RIGHTEOUS, YET LOVING, HE HAS A
CLAIM ON YOUR LIFE.
IF YOU HAVE IN ANY WAY EVER
SINNED, TO WHATEVER DEGREE THAT
YOU THINK IT MIGHT BE
JUSTIFIABLE, IF YOU'VE EVER
VIOLATED THE LAW OF GOD, THE
BIBLE SAYS YOU'VE BROKEN ALL OF
IT.
IN THE SAME WAY THAT IF SOMEONE
WERE TO ATTACK ONE STATE IN THE
UNITED STATES, THEY ATTACK THE
ENTIRE COUNTRY, IF YOU'VE BROKEN
ONE OF THE COMMANDMENTS, YOU'VE
BROKEN THEM ALL.
THAT HAS TO BE RECONCILED BEFORE
THE HOLY JUDGE OF THE UNIVERSE
AND HE DID IT BY SACRIFICING HIS
SON IN YOUR PLACE, THAT HE MIGHT
FREELY GIVE YOU ETERNAL LIFE,
AND CALL YOU TO BELIEVE IN HIM,
AND TRUST IN JESUS, AND BELIEVE
THAT HE IS WHO HE SAYS HE IS.
SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS, THE
ETERNAL SAVIOR, AND THE ONE WHO
WILL SOMEDAY COME BACK AND TAKE
YOU TO HIS HOME IN HEAVEN.
THE CONSEQUENCE OF NOT BELIEVING
THAT, THE BIBLE SAYS THERE IS
ONE.
AND I'LL JUST SIMPLY READ THE
SCRIPTURE.
I SAW A GREAT WHITE THRONE, AND
HIM WHO SAT ON IT, THE EARTH AND
HEAVENS SPED AWAY AND THERE WAS
NO FOUND NO PLACE FOR THEM AND
THE DEAD, SMALL AND GREAT, STOOD
BEFORE GOD AND THE BOOKS WERE
OPENED, AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS
OPENED, WHICH IS THE BOOK OF
LIFE, AND THE DEAD WERE JUDGED
ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
AND THEY WERE JUDGED, EACH ONE
ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS, DEATH
AND HELL WERE PASSED INTO THE
LAKE OF FIRE.
THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.
YOU HAVE THE PROMISE OF LIFE
TODAY, TRUST IN JESUS CHRIST.