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[D] Hello, this is the first interview with Giuseppe Bonicelli,
author of the book titled "Let's not search for the Neverland...".
We want to, with the help of INTERNET and FACEBOOK,
share and better understand what Giuseppe writes in his essay.
Let's welcome Giuseppe and begin with the interview.
The title of the book says: " Let's not search the Neverland ...", but which island we should not look for?
[G] Since capitalist globalization has commodified and commodifies all social relations,
while undermining the good progressively islands family of friendship, of love, etc...,
"Let's not search the Neverland..." refers to the fact that it wants to recall instead a necessary emancipation globalized
that fights the alienated one, as I write in the second part of the text.
[D] Here, in the first part of the text, seems to me you are very hard
and determined in your analysis socio-economic, why?
[G] Yes, I look very hard, but I am simply realist,
so much so that my pessimism is exceeded by forecast of philosophers and economists bourgeois,
and especially and surprisingly, from the events in North Africa.
[D] What causes the events of North Africa in your opinion?
[G] Basically by two reasons, briefly:
1) Unsustainability of the daily life of millions of educated and unemployed young people who suffer poverty and hunger on the rise,
because more and more expelled from work and income consumer capitalism.
That is, when we went abroad, in Tunisia, etc ..., far fewer Westerners now go abroad
without leaving those few euros, which allowed them, even the young cultured of surviving.
Today, this no longer happens.
2) They ask more social justice and the ability to choose freely.
We must, therefore, be happy with these movements,
for the new changes and social changes alluded to,
but do not delude ourselves about on the post-movements,
and let's ask ourselves: what will be the political-economic management, in fact, of the post-movements?
[D] Would you want to explain what to expect in this post-management?
[G] It will be the economic policy of these nations, yet compatible regarding to the single thought of profit?
Short, this post-management, will still have profit margins of the political development of welfare capitalism,
given the structural crisis that is impoverishing the world's most historically rich countries? which spaces will have them?!
But, I do not think! instead I predict the possibility of genocide of peoples and not new bourgeois democracies.
[D] But why genocides of peoples rather than bourgeois democracies?
[G] In the past, the over-capacity of capital, goods, and especially
commodity-human labor, was destroyed largely by wars between states,
but now the prevalence is characterized with the genocide of the people of the same governments, or ethnic wars, for religion,
and this prevalence is distinguished from the poorest countries.
It has the clear perception that to the bourgeoisie of richer Westerly countries, cynically fits over the elimination of the human population,
too many unemployed with no hope of entering into the world capitalist production circuit, given that the development of technologies eliminate the labor force.
[D]This relates to what you write in your essay!?
[G]Yes, as I mention in my book, these movements can, in turn, also allude to a new model of life-production that focuses on the man and a new story!
So everything is open to the two opposing solutions: on one hand the capitalist suicide of the human species. The other, a new emancipated society!
[D]You see the future very ugly, but I see people not afraid and does not see all this drama that you develop in your booklet.
Maybe they did not understand the mathematical formula at page 12? Don't you think to exaggerate and scare those that read you?
[G]First of all, the mathematical and scientific formula was motivated by Karl Marx in his “Grundrisse” (notes on political economy) in 1856, so I do not invent anything!
About that I advise the not mathematical minds to take it (the formula) after reading the first part of the booklet,
which explains precisely, the scientific key and agony of the inevitable end of this life-production.
Second. I noticed that people are gradually moving his fears, accentuate now to the economic crisis, now on the invasion of immigrants and rising crime and insecurity...
It's also true that people remove these fears, wanting to believe the false hope that this is an interim period, the cyclical crisis that will be passed...
[D]So do you expect that this interim period will not be exceeded?
[G]Reality is stronger than illusive optimism, this crisis, unwillingly-willing, feed the influx of millions of poor and miserable to countries that are still rich
and you can therefore imagine, the resulting explosive mixture of the most brutal and uncontrollable instincts... we have already known that.
Anyway, this is truly an unimaginable epochal crisis!
[D]Excuse me for interrupting you, but let me understand this concept of removing.
[G]Let me give you an example. Friends and partners are careful on what I say on the crisis, because it is always useful to know what's happening in the world and in Italy,
especially when I do an analysis of the socio-political economic realities very different from the mass media.
But their gaze moves from my eyes when I kill them the hope by telling them
that we must invent and shape a new way of living,
outside the capitalist-thinking one, which lasted for centuries! Here, they remove, as if to say, we expect hard times and tragic, but may this way of life be at the end?!
Some of those, who have read my book, have told me that the second part is very nice and makes dreaming, but according to them, is an utopia! Impossible!
[D]Anyway, it seems legitimate to think in that way, I have difficulty imagining a world radically different from this,
and although I find your utopia fascinating, based on real scientific potential, I find myself every day to think and act within a way of life that I have from childhood ... or not?!?!?
[G]Good point! And so I understand the removal of all the peoples of the globe, the chronic delegation to new hypothetical democratic governments, more honest and efficient, giving hope for a better future...
But as I write in the book, the mother-lying most hidden, it is the appropriation of the other's labor, the exploitation of man by man!...
and the only and last hope are reduced to selfish and illusory individual safeguard of large and small privileges that this system still holds.
[D]But this, in your opinion, how much can go ahead?
[G]The fact is that most people do not understand that the capitalist vampire can not stop its greed and that after centuries is ended the intensive-extensive expansion of capitalist conquest as I write at the beginning of my book,
this is the greed that kills and excludes capital progressively weaker and thus eliminates workers and consumers, vital for the survival of the capital of the world!
Most people do not realize that without the living labor (workers) capital has no reason to exist (although with technology is removing) and we know that the world grows increasingly unemployed!
[D]But is this what you explain in your book?
[G]It is not easy to explain how the capitalist economy works essentially but I do have tried it with my little book!
So, we see dramatically in a desperate attempt to save individualistic and family, because the crisis makes us increasingly close in ourselves, selfishly,
hoping that the ongoing layoffs, unemployment, poverty, misery, touches others and not us.
But now we see that more and more families are involved in the crisis and will gradually, over time, involving those who still have their small or large privileges.
The unpredictable upheavals of northern Africa teach that nothing is more obvious and safe? We are not realizing that in a few years there have been changes too fast for us to lose track of reality?
[D]Sorry if I come back on the mathematics and scientific formula as you call it, but may you give it a meaning in your own words?
[G]I try. In the formula on page 12 is written that the increase in productivity and technology, work processes, gives two same mathematical results:
the reduction of necessary labor (employment), and the reduction of surplus value or surplus labor (which we call approximate profit). In fact, if you read the formula you see the same figures...
The fact is that paradoxically the most enlightened bourgeois economists awarded by the Nobel, they say us that to go out of the crisis, each country should develop basic research and applied,
fueling productivity, but against fueling the progressive decrease in the surplus value of human labor (as explained in the Marxist formula)!
This scientifically explains the suicide of capitalism!
[D]I understand, but what happens with the globalization?
[G]Globalization expanding production capacity and increasing global consumer products capitalists, gives the illusion of increased global wealth,
because it expands, but with globalization, however, hiding that it is the need to expand markets and consumption globally,
because it is not more sufficient just the local, national, continental market, as the capitalist technological development has destroyed and destroys human labor,
thus decreasing the number of consumers worldwide, it is clear.
The globalization is a consequence of technological development of capitalism and it has had, in these recent decades, a big boost with China,
which, with the policy of Deng Xiaoping after Mao's death in '78, converted itself to private capitalism and began to develop (in the past few decades)
scientific parks, basic research and applied in production...
to the degree that we now know that China is gradually overcoming investment and research in all Western countries.
This means that productivity and the world is so developed by busting any possibility of control
of monopolies and competitions of these ... powering so the world's unemployment!
So we see that for example we have in Europe Germany and few other countries that have well developed research and technology, innovation in manufacturing and services,
introducing machines however more and more capable and efficient, but that inexorably reduce workers...
[D]I'm sorry, but Germany is out of the crisis!
[G]In this moment it is true, but because has dispossessed capitalist production to other countries already capitalists and not because has conquered new countries to capitalism.
It has then expropriated other capitalist countries impoverishing them. This is very important to understand.
I try to explain. You and I are producers of machine tools, I am German, you are Italian, we have both hypothetically, 100 workers each (200 in all),
we sell well, but one of the two, with increased competition, technology, infrastructure costs of services, decreased consumers (just because there is entry of technology) and profits, etc..,
put on bankruptcy and make closing one of two competitors.
Logically you understand that the capitalist remained increases his production having eliminate a competitor, and increasing (hypothetically) to 50 new workers in his factory.
So will have 150 workers and no longer 100 as before, but if the eliminated candidate is unsuccessful, we will not have 200 workers-consumers anymore in all, but only 150 workers and consumers.
This reasoning you can apply to all productions, and you will have the jobless recovery as the most eminent economists write about.
[D]But this reasoning do you apply to the level of world production?
[G]Yes, and unemployment figures tell us that this world's crisis has already expelled in only two years (2008 to 2010), more than 130 million workers in the world! They are not longer returned.
Here, I try to explain in my book because of this.
[D]Let's return then to the example of Germany!
[G]Essentially I want to say that yes, in Europe, Germany is to imitate, capitalism-speaking, because it does not risk the future bankruptcies, such as Spain, Greece, Portugal and Italy tomorrow...
but, like China, it will find increasingly more difficult in the world, for finding new customers due to the increased number of unemployed worldwide, and
these developed nations are already in a deadly and fierce competition to win over consumers still remained in the world... and continue to decrease.
Sure, you can tell me that, reasoning in the only capitalist thought Germany will always last a minute longer, a period more than Italy present capitalist!
That's why they advise us to imitate it...
Yes this is true, in this capitalist epoch, however if someone grows, and fewer and fewer are capitalists worldwide, necessarily the most die though.
[D]Your book has fascinated me and I read it several times, especially the second part that refers to the concept of eternal party!
But it seemed too condensed, I dare to say too essential , because it leaves open many issues that I think have to be developed.
[G]Condensation, or better, essentialisation was a choice, because I consider this book a small poster and the 6-point program on page 36 are the extreme synthesis.
Not to case, I'm working on a study that in a few months will be on my website.
As for the concept of eternal party, that has loved very much and that I joke a lot, in my book I try to explain it with examples,
which are scientifically and potentially possible to live...
In fact, one of my few creative fantasies is to imagine the application of the 5 senses to technological machines
to free man from capitalist exploitation...
and let the reader's curiosity, find out how you can live a truly free society...
In fact I always suggest to read especially the part 2 of my book!
[D]Would you describe your book original ?
[G]Those who have studied Marx, know that in this book I just revised and updated its brilliant analysis and ideas,
to the technological world developed today, that Marx, of course, did not imagine in the details (such as which technologies would be developed).
But he is showing, even after more than 150 years, that its general-universal economic laws
that I condense the mathematical formula, are coming true!
And this way of life is transient and historically destined to end! In good or bad!
[D]In your book you briefly mentions our country Italy.
What do you think of the Berlusconi government, or rather, of Italian politics in the grim picture of the global crisis?
[G]At capitalist level, Italy's country has now no hope of recovery!
Due to 4 basically reasons:
1° Thanks to center-left party and politics as D'Alema, who never understood the centrality of communication-formation of TV,
Berlusconi was able to manipulate and persuade for decades the majority of Italians.
But it is notable that not much and only with the political manipulation, but especially with its entertainment programs.
I'm writing a study of this cultural manipulation, but I can reveal that the culture of having,
of consumerism, of the appearance of beauty as a market, greed, cunning, deceit, arrogance, ambition, etc..
are vices, motivated as values of happiness, and have not had a culture of left-party on the other side able to fight them.
2° The Central Catholic Church has a important role in Italy, and to maintain and feed its economic materials privileges
(see private schools and teachers of religion supported by the state, commercial real estate exempt from taxation, etc..)
had favored and chosen by his silence, the values of Berlusconi.
That's why the new religion is consumerism,value that, the same Central Church formally recognizes as his deadly enemy,
but by removing the fact that in Italy, Berlusconi is a great promoter...!
I always say that the Central Church has forgotten the eighth deadly sin, that is: hypocrisy.
[D] And the third reason?
[G] 3° It's economic development of mafias illegal capitalism, which is structured and expanded to the north,
and which is connected with the expansion of the old vice of patronage and nepotism at the national level,
so that soon we will see the tragic consequences of capitalist production desertification,
as fewer and fewer foreigns capitals invest in Italy, and the Italians ones are less and less able to compete,
with globalization, the rise in costs, having killed, with the widespread cronyism, the missed meritocratic competition...
You may well imagine the progressive and most unemployment in Italy.
[D]Sorry, but what could the center-left party do when even the Church has encouraged Berlusconi?
Moreover, in cultural terms, the same center-left party, which society may propose off of the capitalist single thought of having?
[G] You put me in trouble, but I try to answer.
It's true that if the majority of men believe that happiness lies in the having and not in being (remembering Fromm),
it is therefore difficult to have alternatives outside the commodified single thought.
So what can propose a left party (not only Italian), in the capitalist world market, if not a softer capitalism, but that can not escape its world crisis!?
Sure, you could as left party, at least in Italy propose, reforms in progress in Europe, at civil level:
such as: biological testament, recognize unmarried couples, research on embryonic stem cells, the defense of a primary and public good such as water,
explain an industrial capitalism, innovative, opposed to the financial one, patronage, nepotistic, mafia, etc..,
things that did not even try to make, at the point that they even did not protect themselves with the solution of the conflict of interests,
with the plurality of information-formation, Berlusconi's monopoly.
[D] Ok, but what do you think the opposition would do?!
[G] One thing that no one has ever clearly marked is that yes, you can attacking Berlusconi in terms of human values, ethically and morally,
but what has not sufficiently explained is that for the country, Berlusconi has never been capitalist convenient!
This was to clarify as a smart opposition.
For example, the center-right party has instilled in the Italians to reduce the economy to taxation only, creating the fear of Communist tax vampires such as Padoa Schioppa and Visco...
and the opposition did not explain urgently why the country did not growing (as they could do so if the mass medias are the monopoly of Berlusconi!),
then precisely, for the absence of an economic policy that would go against Mafia, cronyism and nepotism,
and that favored, on the other hand, the innovation, education-formation, meritocracy, infrastructure services, thereby creating jobs and capital investment (including foreign)
and would thus have mitigated the crisis and relaunch the country, as Germany was able to do.
[D] But what did serve to do then?
[G] To do that, it needed politicians that know about capitalist economy and going beyond moral judgments (necessary!)
of Berlusconi immoral behavior, or more, seek political alliances to ban Berlusconi.
I can say that the Italian left party and in the world no longer have the social and economic margins if it not becomes a left party out of the mentality of the single thought of capitalism.
That's why even the good Obama has not and will not have hopes to resolve the epochal crisis of this capitalism.
And therefore, unwillingly-willing, it has to pass through to the utopia of a new sun rise that I sketch in my book...
[D] You talked about 4 reasons for the Italian crisis. What is the fourth?
[G] The 4° reason is given by the Italian industrialists. In this also Montezemolo and overall the delegates of the Industrial Confederation
have serious guilts, in fact if you remember how much they attacked Prodi and his government at a meeting (just re-elected)
as enemies, because it would be back the Visco's taxation...
not seeing an idea of a capitalist economic policy more strategic, reducing in fact the economy at the tax alone.
When I read the objection of such delegates of the Industrial Confederation to Prodi, I smiled
compassionately towards this Italian economy class, saying that
we have capitalists who can not do capitalism!
[D] Finally. Before you mentioned about a deepening of your book...
Can you anticipate us some argument?
[G] Yes, I start with an update of the crisis, then a greater articulation of how my utopia of emancipation could develop.
I also decided to investigate topics such as overstimulation, passing to the concept of the Big Orwellian Brother,
to alienation and finally to a proposal of individual experience.
The most interesting thing that fascinates me is the last argument.
Usually to the subversive it has always been defendant the exaggerated collectivism
(the party, the organization, the people, communism, etc... the center of everything!),
avoiding explicitly individual creativity, and even accused this of counter revolution...
Well, I agree with Paul Sartre that combined the collective intelligence with the individual intelligence,
obviously aimed and directed towards the emancipation of human been!
I have now finished the analysis of overstimulation and started the Big Brother and we'll see what I shall stimulate positively,
because to each topic I give at once some proposals,
that can be shared or not, but this is the moment to let go out some courage!
[D] Well, that's the conclusion of the interview, as you listened, we have tried to investigate some of the essay topics.
Some topics were only mentioned, especially those in the second part of the essay,
and for this reason, anyone wishing to replicate or asking more questions to Giuseppe,
may do so via FACEBOOK or E-MAIL.
Giuseppe will be happy to answer to all.
Greetings and see you to the next interview!