Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
Her Holiness SHRI MATAJI NIRMALA DEVI Public Program, Toronto
June 15, 1989
YOGI: Shri Mataji has arrived and I would like to tell you that I have been with Her
for about thirteen years and I have seen the miracles that She has performed in giving
people the experience that they have sought for lifetimes. She is renowned in India as
the greatest living saint, She is known throughout Europe. In Italy they have recognized Her
as the Mother and I hope in North America you recognize who She truly is. And She has
come here to give you all what you have been seeking for lifetimes and the only need to
do tonight is to have an open mind, the mind of a scientist – not deny it, but just listen
to what Mother has to say and have the experience and when you have the experience you cannot
deny it, because no scientist denies the results of his experiments. So I hope you will all
have this experience of self Realization and I now present Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi.
Shri Mataji: I bow to all seekers of truth. At the very outset it should be understood
that truth is what it is. We cannot organize it, we cannot change it, we cannot conceptualize
it. So if we have some ideas about truth we have to know that it is to be known to us.
This is what is called as the self knowledge. Through self knowledge only you can know the
truth. Before self knowledge is not possible because whatever we know through our mental
efforts, through our emotional feelings is relative. We find a person falls in love with
someone – and after ten days you find him walking to a divorce-case. We find a person
who says, “This is the best way for us” – and after some time we find he is in great
trouble. In every way we find that whatever we say is true before Self Realization, is
very relative. It may be all right, it may not be all right, it may work out, it may
not work out – there is no definiteness about it. Especially the mental projection,
as it is, always moves in a linear direction and then it recoils back upon you. But self
knowledge is a thing where your self is the one which gives you wisdom of the Divine.
But the light of the self comes in your attention, then in that light you know what is the truth.
For example somebody is standing with a snake in his hand and it is all darkness – you
tell that person, “This is a snake”, he is not going to believe you. He’ll say,
“All right, I don’t think so, I believe it is a rope.” So no use arguing with such
a person. Best is to put the light on – so let him have a look at it and then he just
drops out the snake. In the same manner, when the self knowledge comes into our awareness
we start feeling the All-pervading power which is described as Ruah, described as the All-pervading
power of God’s love, described as Brahmachaitanya - call it by any name – for the first time
you start feeling on your fingertips. You have never felt it before. Now when you start
feeling it on your fingertips, these centers that are there are the sympathetic centers
five, six and seven on the left-hand side, same sympathetic, on the right-hand side we
have seven centers. So you start feeling them. Feeling your own centers and feeling the centers
of others when this enlightenment comes on your central nervous system.
We have become human beings through our evolutionary process. We don’t realize how much better
evolved we are than the animals. For example if you want a dog or a horse to pass through
a very dirty lane he’ll just walk through, it’s not bothered, but for a human being
it’s an impossible situation. In so many ways we are evolved, but there is a little
bit left – this last breakthrough has to work out about which all the saints have written
that, ‘you should know thyself’. If you do not know yourself, then you cannot know
anything about God. No use talking about God, about religion. Now you find that people who
follow any religion whatsoever, any religion – say maybe a Hindu, Christian, Muslim,
Sikh - any religion he may be following, he can commit any sin. There is no restriction.
Nobody says that, “I cannot commit this sin, because I am such and such.” So there
is no compulsion to remain holy by following anything. So there is something missing about
it which one has to know – what is the point we have missed. There’s nothing wrong in
any religion, all these great prophets were born on the Tree of Life, like living flowers,
and they were plucked by us and then we say, “This is mine, this is mine”, and we are
fighting – but actually they all belong to one Tree of Life. So what was the common
thing that they talked and which we have missed in practically in every religious seeking
was this: that we have to seek the eternal, we have to seek the eternal and the transitory
is to be used in moderation, in its own limitation and in its full understanding.
Today’s problems of ecology, this, that – all these things come from human error
and the human error is because they have not found out the eternal. When you find out the
eternal then you become a balanced personality, absolutely a balanced personality and the
balance comes from divine wisdom. All the problems today are because human beings are
not at that level of self knowledge, because human beings are still relatively living.
One person thinks this is good, another thinks this is good and that’s how we exploit each
other, we exploit the nature, we create problems and everything repels on us, because transitory
things as you know are transitory, because they have inbuilt quality to get destroyed.
They get destroyed and gradually we learn from them how to destroy. But human beings
are the epitome of evolution. God has created human beings as the highest creation. Maybe
we have been given freedom, a complete freedom to choose. If we want to go to heaven we can
go, if we want to go to hell, we can go. So this freedom we have been acting on, we can
say as trial and error, error and trial, and ultimately a stage has to reach where we start
thinking, what mistake did we commit? Where did we go wrong? And there we have to realize
that the eternal we have not sought.
We see this miracle - say of flowers – we see the flowers, how beautiful they are, created
by nature. We can’t create even one of them. Spontaneously they appear according to the
different categories they belong. The choice, such a big choice – all this and many other
such living things are done by this divine power. But we take it for granted, we just
take it for granted and the greatest thing that has happened is that, that today human
beings are brought to this level that now they have become divine computers. They can
become divine computers. It’s a very beautiful thing that is ahead of us – only thing we
should know that we have to grow into that new awareness. This is called as the one that
we call knowledge. Knowledge is not mental knowledge, by reading you do not become. Kabira
once said that by reading too much the great learned people have become stupid. First I
used to think, how can that be? [SOUNDS LIKE: Badi, badi pantita murrachaweiy ?]. I used
to think, by reading how can people become stupid? The thing is, when you read all others
are in your head, but you are not there. And this is, I find today, that we think by reading
we’ll become the knowledge. Knowledge will be, but that’s not a absolute knowledge,
that’s not. That is a relative knowledge. To get to the absolute knowledge you have
to become something, you have to become the Spirit. And once you become the Spirit this
knowledge is just manifested. It can be manifested even in a little child and a child can know.
It’s a subjective knowledge, you can say, but absolute. It is not arbitrary, it’s
collective. You put ten children who are realized and ask them, what’s wrong with this person?
Immediately they’ll raise the same finger. This is the thing. Now ask that person, something
wrong with your throat? Are you suffering from some trouble? He’ll say, “Yes, how
do you know?” These children are telling Me. So only the decoding is needed afterwards
that - what’s wrong with you, what finger is burning? What is the problem and what does
it relate to? You have to just know how to correct it. And once you know the art of correcting
it, you can correct and you can perfect it. It’s very easy to master this art.
Of course, you must know you can’t pay for anything like this. How much did we pay to
the Mother Earth when She sprouted the seeds? If it’s a living process you don’t pay
for anything. Living processes do not understand money. How can you pay for these flowers when
you have to pay to the Mother Earth? Of course you can pay to the florist – that’s a
different point, but to the Mother Earth you cannot pay. She does all the job without any
payment. In the same way this is a living process and you must know that you cannot
pay for it. Anybody who says that, “I’m doing God’s work, I’m doing this work
for emancipation of your soul,” and all that and takes money – tell him that he
should redeem his own soul first. You cannot pay for it, you cannot put in effort also,
because it is a spontaneous thing. Sahaja means: saha … with, ja …born with you
- is the right of this union with the Divine, is the Yoga. For this you cannot pay, nor
can you command, nor can you demand. You cannot ask – it just works.
So it’s so simple. Now some people say, “Mother, how can it be so simple?” Anything
that is vital, isn’t it simple? As soon as we are born we know how to breathe. Who
teaches us how to breathe? Automatically we start breathing. Anything that is important
has to be simple, cannot be complicated. Now about this subject I must have given thousands
and thousands of lectures in English language itself, leave alone other languages. So there’s
no end to it but as I always say that when we come in this room we see so many lights
– only thing we have to put on one switch and the lights are there. If I start telling
you the history of light and the source of these lights and the electricity, from where
it has come, you’ll be just fed up, but it’s all built-in. So why bother, just have
the lights on. In the same way it’s all built-in within you all these beautiful things,
these centers and chakras. Of course we have to admit one thing, that in the West this
civilization has grown like a tree outside, but it has not sought its roots. This is the
knowledge of the roots and without the roots the tree cannot exist and the roots have no
meaning if there is no tree. So it is all inter-dependent, so we must have the knowledge
of the roots and we have to know all about it. It is very simple and you all can become
masters.
May God bless you all!
Shri Mataji: I want to have some questions from you. Questions should be related to the
subject, because I have not come here to seek any money, seek any power or votes or anything.
I’ve come here to tell you what is for the benevolence of your being and as a result
of a collective, in the sense, emancipation of the humanity. So please ask Me positive
questions which will help you.
Aside: Can you get … [ Mala ?]
FEMALE SEEKER: When you walked in …when you walked in … when you walked in I have
seen one big energy here, of purple - is it my [power ?] or Your energy?
YOGI: (to the seeker:) Could you repeat that, I couldn’t follow.
(to Shri Mataji:) I think, apparently she is saying, when You walked in, she saw some
big energy force. (to the seeker:) Is that right?
FEMALE SEEKER: When Shri Mataji walked in I could see one purple energy.
YOGI: Purple?
FEMALE SEEKER: Purple energy.
YOGI: Aha!
FEMALE SEEKER: And I was wondering if it’s my energy or if it’s Her energy, means … [INDIST.]
Shri Mataji: (laughing) What’s that?
YOGI: She said, when You walked in, she saw some purple energy and she is wondering whether
it is her energy or Your energy.
Shri Mataji: You see all these seeing things are out of question, because if you see something
you are not that. Supposing you see the light – then you are not the light. So it’s
not important. We have to be the light, we have to be the energy.
(to the audience:) Yes please!
SEEKER: Yes, You were talking about the tree, were You talking about the Tree of Life, or
were you talking about the roots of the tree …
Shri Mataji: I …
YOGI: When You are talking about the tree, are you talking about the tree of life?
Shri Mataji: Of course!
ANOTHER SEEKER: Shri Mataji, I would like to know who was your spiritual teacher? [INDIST.:
SOUNDS LIKE: As you belong to a spiritual teacher as You are]
YOGI: He is asking who was Your spiritual teacher?
Shri Mataji: (laughing) Who was the spiritual teacher of Christ? I had no teacher.
SEEKER: You had no teacher?
Shri Mataji: There’s no need to have a teacher. When you become the Spirit you are your own
teacher. You can be born like that. But of course there must be something about Me which
is better that you discover it through your self knowledge.
(to the audience:) Yes, please!
ANOTHER SEEKER: The gentleman who is standing beside you said that in Your presence we will
experience some sort of a spiritual power.
Shri Mataji: Yes [INDIST. ]
SEEKER: Ah, I‘m a candidate who would like to experience.
YOGI: (to Shri Mataji:) He says that I told them that in Your presence they would experience
–will have a spiritual experience and he says that he is a canditate and he would like
the experience.
Shri Mataji: Very good! You are a real sadakar, a real seeker. What a beautiful question,
thank you very much.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Yeah, what I would like to know is that, once you reach that state of
your own Kundalini, are there any possibilities that you can lose it?
YOGI: (to Shri Mataji:) He says, once you achieve that status– is it possible that
you can lose it?
Shri Mataji: No, you don’t lose it, but it’s like a loose connection sometimes.
(Shri Mataji laughing & laughter) You understand, electricity it could be little loose sometime.
So you have to work it out and learn how to make it really permanent – that’s all.
But you don’t lose it as such, energy is there and your connection is there but it
does happen sometimes that it’s a loose connection. Mostly I’ve seen people get
their Realization – then they start thinking about it. You can’t think about it, it’s
beyond thinking. Then you start thinking, “Oh I’ve got it already, I am on top of
the world, now what is it?” But it must be established, it’s very important and
you must know what it is. Of course for all that you don’t have to pay, you don’t
have to do anything, but you have to give some time. Why do we have watches? To save
time. Save time for what? [audience laughs] For fixing your connections.
FEMALE SEEKER: Once you have got the energy all over your mind have you known anybody
that uses that power, that energy to do evil or maybe turns themselves into self-style
or to do evil to others [INDIST. ]?
Shri Mataji: Oh [INDIST.], I can’t hear with this noise.
YOGI: She is saying that once you get this power – do you know of anyone who after
getting this power uses it for evil.
Shri Mataji: No, you can’t. It’s a - you can’t use, it’s for your benevolence,
for your hita – you can’t use it. You just can’t do it. If you even start thinking
of something evil, the energy will disappear, immediately. You can’t be evil. You become
saints, you become angels.
SEEKER: You are saying that your motives are altruistic [commentary … ?].
Shri Mataji: What does he say?.
SEEKER: However we have certain expenses, such as flowers, tickets, [preps... ?]. How
do you pay for that?
Shri Mataji: What’s happening?
YOGI: (to Shri Mataji:) Let me answer that question. Those of us who invited Shri Mataji
to Toronto payed for the flowers. As far as the ticket goes, Shri Mataji usually buys
her own ticket.
Shri Mataji: Are you interested in money so much?
SEEKER: No! (Laughter)
Shri Mataji: Actually you see, it should not be because I shouldn’t pay for your salvation,
should I? It’s not good, this doesn’t give you self-respect, but in the beginning
I have to do it, I know, it’s not good. There is no harm in paying for My ticket.
By God’s grace My husband is a rich man, I should say in a rich family and My mother’s
family is also rich enough by God’s grace. And they don’t mind spending this money
because they know that this is the emancipation of human beings. Of course the hall, I think,
is taken by the people who are here, who think they have achieved something – like drunkards,
you see, when they want to share their drinking they can also arrange a hall, just to enjoy.
In the same way these who are drunk in the beauty of God’s Love must have arranged
this hall and must have paid for it. But I hope you don’t want Me to pay for that also.
(Shri Mataji laughing & laughter)
SEEKER: I just have [a simple question ?]. … [INDIST.] … expenses, I just wanted ...
Shri Mataji: Yeah! Yes, you see – what I’m saying that of course you have to pay for
the aeroplane, you have to pay for the hall, but you don’t have to pay for Self Realization.
You don’t have to pay for self knowledge, you don’t have to pay if you get cured automatically
by the Kundalini awakening. But hall you have to pay. But there are people who also give
free halls to us, there are people – but it would be very beggarish I think to have
even the hall begged from someone free. It’s a question of self-respect.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Mataji, I have been a devotee all my life and - to Mother, to life – and
still recently I got sick with leukemia cancer, do You think I have done something wrong?
YOGI: He says he has been a devotee of the Mother and of life for all his life, but still
he has been ill with cancer and leukemia – has he done something wrong?
Shri Mataji: You have done nothing wrong but in ignorance we commit mistakes, isn’t it?
Leukemia is absolutely curable through Sahaja Yoga, absolutely! You don’t have to do anything.
Ignorance is such that unless and until you are connected with the Divine whatever we
do is like telephoning without our connections. The connection has to be established. So you
have done nothing wrong but as you have been dedicated to Mother you have every right to
get cured completely. Sahaja Yoga has cured. We don’t give any medicine – it’s only
your Kundalini, when its rises automatically you get cured. All right?
FEMALE SEEKER: Oh Mother, can You explain the awakening of the Kundalini and the experience
…
Shri Mataji: Will you get up who is speaking?
FEMALE SEEKER: Oh Mother Mataji. Can You explain to the people here the process when your Kundalini
is awakened and the experiences that one gets like I experienced and it’s very frightening
for people who [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: recently meditated and who is around You] – and you
can’t explain it properly.
Shri Mataji: That I am going to do now only.
FEMALE SEEKER: Like that, I had some experience, like hissing a snake, like a little bit of
[levitation ?], like I can hop like a frog, I can do so many things, You know? It’s
frightening. (Laughter)
Shri Mataji: All that’s all wrong, you can see, we don’t have to become frogs or earthworms.
(Laughter)
FEMALE SEEKER: [INDIST.]
Shri Mataji: My child, use your brains. (Laughter) I mean, imagine somebody says, “You have
to hop like a frog”, breaking your bottoms (Laughter) – absurd! All these absurd propositions
have no meaning. Anything you talk about Divine it has to be based on scriptures. We have
scriptures and scriptures who have written, seek yourself.
FEMALE SEEKER: Oh Mother, It’s [INDIST.] Kriya Yoga by swami Vivekananda [??].
Shri Mataji: Ah, …
YOGIS: (laugh) [INDIST!]
Shri Mataji: …you see now I don’t want to bring controversies but Sahaja Yoga is
A-Kriya Yoga, A-Kriya.
FEMALE SEEKER: The book explains all [INDIST.].
Shri Mataji: All right, why I tell you, how will I explain, why. Please be seated one
minute, I’ll explain to this lady. A-Kriya-Yoga is like this: supposing you have to start
a car, if car has started and ignited then automatically all the parts of the car starts
working. In the same way when Kundalini starts moving, all these things like Bhandas and
[INDIST.]take place automatically – you wouldn’t even know about it! But Kriya Yoga
is that you take out the wheel and start moving it from outside artificially. They cut even
the tongue of the people. Last time when I came in 1973 …71, I found people had their
tongues wagging like dogs. They had cut it, and what was said that you have to take it
back and this is a [Kaicheri ?]. Nonsense! Absolute nonsense! You don’t have to do
anything outside, artificially. It just works, because everything is built within. I was
shocked to see such prominent doctors from India, such prominent engineers from India
had cut their tongues, finished with all their money and were there just living like cabbages.
You become dynamic. How can you be recluses? If it’s that energy, which is the energy,
which gives you comfort, which cures you, which nourishes you. That’s the energy which
gives you all the counseling, the energy that gives you physical vitality, that energy which
redeems you – do you think you’ll become stupid people? Use your brains.
Now there’s one gentleman who was standing for quite some time, so I’ll give him some
time.
SEEKER: I have two questions. Number one: we hear so much about meditation, TM, the
power of Realization, and so on.
Shri Mataji: All right.
SEEKER: Could you please explain to us what’s the difference between what you are teaching
and what you are saying and what others have been teaching?
Shri Mataji: Yes!
SEEKER: The second question is the gentleman on the left has said that when he was initiated
it took him 2 months to realize …
Shri Mataji: I can’t hear you.
SEEKER: … why such a big gap and what one has to do to achieve that state.
YOGI: His first question is what is the difference between what You are telling them about Realization
and what others have talked, like TM and so on – about.
Shri Mataji: TM doesn’t say about self Realization – I am sorry, TM never talked of self Realization.
They cannot.
What’s the second question?
YOGI: The second question was he was asking why with some people it takes longer to feel
the vibrations because I mentioned that it took me two months to feel vibrations and
it takes some people quickly, much quicker.
Shri Mataji: Ah! So this was from him. Some people do take more time because this gentleman
who is here – you see – was analyzing. You know, he is a scientist and, I know, he
is aeronautical engineer. So he had read all the books that are possible, had been to all
guru-shopping that was possible. So he’s so conditioned. So, naturally, if you are
that conditioned you have to little bit work it out. But also you don’t feel, after Realization
also, if this center is not all right. This is the center of Vishuddhi and it looks after
your cervical plexus and your nerve cervical now, if it’s been numbed by something then
you don’t feel the vibrations. But others can say if the Cool Breeze is coming out of
your head. But normally if you have lead a very balanced life and have not been to all
kinds of false people and that you are not very much full of your ego then it works very
fast. Some people don’t feel but don’t you worry, most of you are going to feel it.
So many questions in Toronto! (Shri Mataji laughing)
FEMALE SEEKER: Mother, do you believe in reincarnation and if so, can you please talk about it - reincarnation.
YOGI: She is asking if You believe in reincarnation, and if You can talk about it?
Shri Mataji: I mean, of course I believe in it. But what is there to talk about it? (Laughter)
You will know such a lot, you have patience. Sahaja Yoga is an ocean of knowledge. Ocean
of knowledge. He is an aeronautical engineer, went to all kinds of gurus and all that. Today
he is an expert on Sahaja Yoga and there are many you have here also who are experts. So
the knowledge is so much. Gradually you will know each and every thing very easily, you
don’t have to exert about everything. Even if I say, “I believe in something”, why
should you accept it? Why should you accept whatever I say? You have to see for yourself
and know for yourself.
FEMALE SEEKER: Because I do believe! Ahm …
Shri Mataji: You are also believing blindly. And if I tell you also, it will be blind.
So better is to see for yourself.
FEMALE SEEKER: Right, I have seen, but I would like to know, ahm …
Shri Mataji: It is there.
FEMALE SEEKER: Because I believe You still know more than I do.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, you will know everything, madam. Everything! But your attention will
be now more not on these things but about self. Attention shifts.
SEEKER: Ah - You posed a question to me about, did Jesus Christ have a teacher? And His teacher
was God. So I was wondering if that God is Your spiritual teacher. When You do meditate,
do You meditate upon a light, or is it, do You meditate upon Krishna as [it back ?] literature,
is it Krishna or is it…?
Shri Mataji: Just now you don’t have to meditate on anything, you just get your Realization.
Then gradually you will know how to meditate. See, they will tell you – because we’ll
have a course, you see, of about, I think, four, five lessons they want to give you one
by one to tell you how to meditate. Actually you don’t meditate, you are in meditation.
But how to establish that meditation will be seen individually also. Supposing you have
a certain center which is caught up, say, then they will tell you, this is the center
that is caught up and this is what is to be cleared out, and what is the Deity on that
center and that’s how you have to do. It’s very, very simple, but very scientific and
precise, so you don’t have to hear, you yourself will know.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Mother, it’s a privilege talking to You: is it necessary for me, myself,
to come back again and again and get born?
Shri Mataji: What he said?
SEEKER: Is it necessary to come back on this planet, this Mother Earth, to take re-birth?
To come back incarnation again and again, is it necessary? If you have this deep self
knowledge, can you get moksha? …
Shri Mataji: After Realization.
YOGI: You mean after getting your Realization?
SEEKER: Yes, but can’t you get more …?
Shri Mataji: No, not necessary at all – but you do take [birth ?], because you want to
help others, you see?
SEEKER: I understand that part …
Shri Mataji: Ah! But you are free, you need not, you become absolutely free, if you want,
you will, otherwise you will not. It depends on your own choice, it’s your own desire,
but you want to do it, because you want to help people.
SEEKER: I would love to help people…
Shri Mataji: That’s good!
SEEKER: … even today! But I’m not sure, whether I want to come back? Because during
that period of in-transit [transition ?] I think I will forget what I may have achieved?
There may be some of us left over like from previous lives [INDIST.]. I have been seeking
for years …
Shri Mataji: Now, forget the past. And forget the future. In the present just remember,
you have to receive your Realization. Just be in the present! All right? May God bless
you!
Now, so many (Shri Mataji laughing) – everybody is asking questions? Yes!
FEMALE SEEKER: I have to come back. I believe in energy, pure energy and when I love to
see it, but to observe her I can see energies in different colors so it’s this what I
… You said to me when I see it then I am not there. But you know what I mean. So what
– ah?
Shri Mataji: She is saying she sees the energy?
YOGI: Yes. She sees colors.
Shri Mataji: Now, you won’t see that anymore.
FEMALE SEEKER: But I won’t, I am not seeing, I am feeling it and I may, ah, I think You
know what I mean, it’s something you don’t think that she has …
Shri Mataji: No, no – that’s true, but what I am saying, by seeing it you don’t
achieve anything, you don’t get any knowledge. You see, it’s a - you will know why you
see. You will know why you see also and you will be corrected, all right? Just have patience
with yourself. Just have patience. Because seeing these things do not give you joy, do
not give you any power but once you are realized you can raise the Kundalini of others. It’s
like one light which is enlightened can enlighten another. But if you are sticking on to something
like this, “I see the energy, I want to see this, I want to do that”, – that’s
not going to help. What am I doing about it? Is it going to help the humanity? Is it going
to help me? What’s the use of seeing all these things, doing all these things – just
ask this question. As simple as that. I have to give some meaning to my life, isn’t it?
What is the meaning of my life if I just see things and I say, supposing I’ll go and
tell Indians that I have seen Niagara Falls, so what? It’s in my eyes. (Laughter)
SEEKER: Shri Mataji, uhm, I have been trying to work with You for about one year now, and
I have skills that are causing me like this all the time. One is my first great experience
is with Christ and I had many great moments working with You but occasionally I take Your
picture and put it in my drawer for three months and I go back saying things to me about
worshipping only Christ and I only [INDIST.], I don’t think I have this skill - but what
do You say about..?
Shri Mataji: What’s he saying? He is a Sahaja Yogi?
YOGI: I don’t know what he is. He says he has used Your picture and he has made great
experiences but he says he also had good experiences when he has meditated on Christ, so he sometimes
puts Your picture away and feels …
Shri Mataji: No, no, no!
YOGI: … there’s a conflict.
Shri Mataji: There is no difference between Me and Christ. What’s the difference? Not
at all! Who told you that there is a difference?
SEEKER: [INDIST… as Christ said. ?]
Shri Mataji: Not at all, He existed at that time, I exist now – that’s the difference.
And he has talked about Me also. So it’s all right, makes no difference. Who told you
there is a difference?
SEEKER: He did! (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter) That’s the problem.
Shri Mataji: You have to integrate, you have to understand the integration of all the incarnations,
of all the prophets, you have to understand that. They are all in one.
Once Guru Nanaka was sleeping, and they said, “Your feet are towards the Mekka.” He
said, “All right, I’ll move My feet.” He moved his feet on the other side and they
said again, “It’s towards Mekka.”
Who was Guru Nanaka? And who was Mohammed Sahib? And who is Me? That all is to be understood.
You see, when Rama came, they said, “We believed in Parashurama, because Parashurama
was dead.” It’s nice, somebody who is dead you put him in the pocket. Parashurama
was the same as Rama. Then came Shri Krishna – they said, “We believe in Shri Krishna
– ah, we don’t believe in Shri Krishna, we believe in Rama.” Whatever is dead is
better to believe in that, but today I am before you. There’s no difference between
Me and Him or Nanaka, anyone, they are all Mine. We are all related to each other, there
is no difference at all. Even this much. Only difference could be that today the time is
a blossomtime, we have so many seekers and I can give en-masse Realization. They also
said the same things, “Seek yourself!” But Christ lived only for four years – what
do you expect anybody to do in four years? I was in London four years struggling with
seven hippies. I couldn’t give them Realization, I thought that this West is all wasted, I
may not be able to work it out at all. (Laughter) Four years - can you imagine, I was struggling
with seven hippies. (Laughter) I must say, Christ at least was better than Me, quite
efficient. (Laughter) I mean, nobody listened to Him. At least you are listening to Me.
(Laughter) Isn’t it a better thing? And also your questioning is all right, but you
are not angry with Me by any chance. And you are not going to crucify Me - this is the
difference. (Laughter) We are evolved! (Applause) We are evolved now. Much more evolved, I must
say. Yes, please!
SEEKER: Shri Mataji, [INDIST….chappels…]
Shri Mataji: Kya…? What’s this?
YOGI: He wants to know about the experience.
Shri Mataji: Yes! I think you are all great people who have come here. Nobody asked Christ,
they never asked Him, “Give us the experience of self knowledge.”
SEEKER: … the answer?
Shri Mataji: Please be seated, just now we’ll work it out, now. Now this gentleman, now
you ask some questions, again you have some questions, Sir?
ANOTHER SEEKER: Yes, [INDIST … last year. ?]
Shri Mataji: I can’t hear him at all.
SEEKER: [INDIST.] I am sitting on the chair and [INDIST.] there is some stop here on my
back [INDIST.] I see myself [INDIST.] like everyone [INDIST.] …
Shri Mataji: What’s he saying?
SEEKER: … and the bigger one, [INDIST.] …
Shri Mataji: Yeah!
SEEKER: … and I am asking myself how it happened [INDIST.] …
YOGI: What’s your question?
SEEKER: so what I want to know is that since I have reached all that state of feeling something
is coming out of my head, is that the way what you call the stage of being conscious,
we can call it as the experience of the Mother of the universe [INDIST.] …
YOGI: He has had some sort of experience of this face expanding sideways and some ticklings
on his back – he’s asking if that’s the experience.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no – not that kind, that’s absurd. The experience is that you
become thoughtlessly aware first of all and you start feeling the Cool Breeze on your
fingertips, you start feeling the Cool Breeze coming out of your head, it’s the real baptism
as we call it. All these experiences are not there and they are not all right – they
have to be corrected.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Shri Mataji, [INDIST.] as conscious mind and unconscious mind and we
are reading from [INDIST. ?] Whereas Sahaja Yoga as such is spreading in the whole process
of conscious or subconscious mind? The first one … the second one is that there is no
answer to my question, you are the Christ? [??] And my third one: Why do you …
YOGI: Could you speak up please? Can you speak up please?
SEEKER: …[INDIST.] since You are realizing Your soul you begin rise above the mind, on
so many ways and since we have not realized, I am not Christ myself, I am not Christ, I
do not …
Shri Mataji: Did you follow? It’s beyond Me. What did he say?
YOGI: The first question was, where does Sahaja Yoga fit in like the conscious mind and the
unconscious and Parabrahma and his second question was that after You got your Self
Realization You were Christ and Guru Nanak and so on. But he hasn’t got it - so he
isn’t. I don’t follow that man in all specific …
Shri Mataji: He didn’t follow your question.
YOGI: The second question!
Shri Mataji: But the – please be seated. Please be seated. All right? Now you asked
a question which is intelligent and a good question should be asked about the consciousness
of it. If you want to know I’ll tell you now about it, but it is a big lecture on it
and the other day in New York I talked to Jungians about the conscious, the subconscious,
the collective subconscious, but you will know all about it, everything! So I think
instead of wasting too much time on it, even by knowing that, unless and until you get
your Realization it is of no use. All right? So the first thing is, you get your Realization
and then you will know all about it. I must have given at least ten lectures on the construction
of unconscious and the conscious and the subconscious and the collective subconscious and the collective
supra-conscious and everything. All right? That’s a very good thing you have asked
Me but just now in an introductory lecture I would not like to talk much about it. But
there are lectures and lectures and lectures and they will be all available to you. But
I have to tell you one simple thing that it is not the mental knowledge, it is the love
of God. I am here to introduce you to His love. He is God Almighty, He is our Father,
and He loves us very much and He wants us to enter into His kingdom as soon as possible.
Then He looks after you every moment of your life. And you are amazed at the miracles,
how He is bothered about you – this is what you must have first.
I would say if you are hungry you’ll say, “All right Mother, if You have done the
cooking let me have the food.” But if you are not, then you would like to know this
way, that way – what’s the use? Better have the taste of it and then you will know
each and everything. You will know the people who have been realized souls before, what
they talked, explanation of everything. Without that you don’t have the subtle eyes, the
sukshma to see the subtleties of what they said. So, best thing is to get that light
into your eyes, all right? So let us now stop the questioning – it’s nine o’clock
and it’s better to have it because you didn’t know how the time was passing and the Realization
has to be done and I would like to meet all of you. If you give Me time I would like to
meet you, but in case if we spend our time in only questioning, how can I meet you?
REALISATION:
A few things have to be done, very simple. Those who don’t want to do it can go. You
cannot force on them. It has to be done in your own freedom and glory. And if you don’t
want to have it’s your own choice. Nothing can be forced, this is a divine blessing which
has to be asked for. As Christ has said, we have to knock – in the same way. So it works
on the principle that we are all computers and you have to ask a question to a computer
like Me and then you get the answers as the Kundalini awakening – to explain it more
sort of in a scientific thing. But it is a very simple method that we have to take and
you have to help your centers also. As it is it works spontaneously, no doubt, but if
we can little bit help our centers it expedites and later on, if you go home, you can also
work it out yourself. It’s a very simple thing is – I don’t know how far he has
told you about the channels, but the left side represents your emotional side and your
desire to get Realization. And the right side is the action that you have to take. So first
of all we have to take the help of the Mother Earth, and also the shoes sometimes block
the awakening, so it’s better to take out the shoes for a while, just for a short time.
It will hardly take ten minutes, hardly ten minutes.
Put both the feet on the ground parallel to each other, just parallel to each other and
you have to be comfortable. You have to be comfortable, if there is something you find
rather tight on your body you can little bit release the tightness and be comfortable.
If somebody wants to go out for a while can go and come back. This - I’ll wait for them
in case because it is something that has to work out, it has to work out and I am sure
it will.
Now one has to know that Realization is not complete unless and until your connection
is established. So maybe today it will break through in My presence – but you have to
establish and you have to know all about it because the light which is enlightened has
to give light to others, must give light to others, it’s very simple.
Now I’m coming to Toronto, I was told after six years. Of course next year I’m going
to come definitely, no doubt, but still it is you who are going to give Realization to
others, it is you who are going to transform the people here – it’s your responsibility.
There’s no commitment of money, there’s no commitment of anything whatsoever – except
that the commitment that we have got the light and we have to give and once you start giving
others you’ll be surprised that your spiritual growth will be very fast. But if you do not
give to others you will be [stranded ?] and you will not know why it is happening.
Second thing is very simple about modern Sahaja Yoga we should say that first you get your
Realization, first you get a little light within yourself and in that light you see
what’s wrong with you and you yourself drop it. Say people have given up drugs – I have
not told them, they have given up so many things I’ve never told them, it just works
because your own Kundalini works it out and grants these blessings to you. But you must
show full respect to your Self Realization and you must show that gratitude of Divine
that you are going to spread it.
We talk about so many things, disastrous things but how much we can contribute by Realization
you do not know. As soon as you will start using your vibrations for giving Realizations
to other people and meeting collectively, understanding it - you’ll be amazed, the
whole atmosphere will start changing.
I didn’t tell you how much these vibrations help for health but also for all the agriculture,
animals, everything. It’s such a wonderful thing that three doctors in Delhi have got
their MD who have done research on three subjects – one is the physical fitness, second is
the epilepsy and third psychosomatic diseases. In Delhi-University they have done it.
Now there are seven doctors in London who are doing – not, it’s not research but
recording how many people are cured by Sahaja Yoga. We have definitely cured the disease
you are talking about, definitely! And many people have been cured.
There is an architect who was described as dead – that, I mean doctors had certified
that you are going to die within one month’s time, and he was saved by an English Sahaja
Yogini. She saved him just by telling him how to meditate.
So one has to first get Realization and then believe in yourself and then you’ll believe
in Sahaja Yoga. There’s no blind faith needed, you have to first experience. Once you have
the experience then yourself being honest, you will do it. So actually I’m fulfilling
all the prophecies of all the saints, all the desires of all the prophets and all that
was asked for – that’s a very difficult task. It needs lot of patience, understanding
and love. You see it’s easy to get crucified, I tell you, even easier to take some poison
and to take some Samadhi, but to work it out, day in and day out – it’s a difficult
task and you really need a Mother. If it was a Krishna, He would have used his sudarshana
chakra and Rama would have taken his [vanvyasa ?]. But I have to live with you, I have to
deal with you and I have to work it out and My love has such a force that it doesn’t
get tired, it doesn’t get tired at all. I wish you all love yourself the same way
and understand your own glory.
At the very outset we have to understand not to feel guilty at all about anything whatsoever,
because you forget your past. Not to feel guilty. You are not to say that you have done
this wrong, that wrong, not to count any mistakes. After all you are human beings and only human
beings can make mistakes. You are not God! So there is nothing to condemn yourself for
anything, because now if you have to enter into the kingdom of God why should you condemn
yourself? You should be in a very pleasant mood towards yourself, very pleasantly placed
and know that you are a human being and a little journey has to be done. It’s very
simple, I really tell you it’s very simple, so do not go into any depression. Or some
people also feel all the time, “Will I get it or not?” You will all get it, I tell
you, I verily say you’ll all get it, but don’t be diffident about it. With this let
us start now.
I’ll tell you, you put your left hand towards Me like this to begin with, later on we’ll
go into a real awakening but just now I’ll tell you how to do it. Left hand towards Me,
symbolically you are expressing your desire that you want to have your Self Realization.
Then your right hand you put it on your heart, which is a center where resides the Spirit.
In human beings it resides in the heart, so first we put it in the heart. Then we put
our hand on the upper part of our abdomen on the left-hand side. We work out everything
on the left-hand side. Now here is the center of your mastery, which is created by all the
prophets and all the masters for us. So here you place it in the upper part of your abdomen
on the left-hand side. Then you place it in the lower part of your abdomen, in the lower
part of your abdomen on the left-hand side. This is a very important center because this
is the center which manifests true knowledge on your nervous system. So this is also a
very important center. Then you raise your Kundalini by putting your hand on, again on
the center of the master that is the upper part of your abdomen on the left-hand side.
Press it hard.
Now. Then you press again your hand on your heart. Now, you take your hand and put it
in the corner of your neck and your shoulder and turn your head to your right. This is
the center you catch when you feel guilty. You feel diffident and you try to debase yourself,
this is the center you catch. So you put your hand to your right, your hand on the left
side but your head to your right.
Now, stretch your hand and put the center of your palm on - I’m sorry, then you have
to put your hand on the forehead, across. Now this is the center – and bend your head
- where you have to ask for forgiveness for others, means you have to say, “I forgive
everyone.” Now some will say that it’s very difficult to forgive, but whether you
forgive or you don’t forgive, it’s a myth. So, if you don’t forgive then you play into
wrong hands. So better is to forgive. I find it’s very difficult for people to forgive
others, even to say that and then, when they come to Me I find they have not forgiven and
they have not felt the vibrations. So from your heart you have to forgive when I tell
you. Now put your hand on the backside of your head and push back your head on it. Here
you have to ask for forgiveness from Divine, without counting your mistakes, without feeling
guilty, just for your satisfaction.
Now you have to stretch your hand and put the center of your palm on top of your head,
bending your head, just here where there’s a fontanel bone area which was a soft bone
in your childhood. So put your right hand on top of that and press it hard, pushing
back your fingers and move your scalp clockwise slowly. Seven times you have to move, but
that I’ll tell you later on after you close your eyes, just now you move it seven times.
Now you may have to close your eyes. Please don’t open your eyes because there’s no
mesmerism in it. Moreover your attention has to be drawn inside, so it‘s better to close
your eyes, it will help you a lot, if you keep your eyes closed till I tell you to open.
Now please place your left hand towards Me, and now close your eyes, keep your feet apart,
and put your right hand on your heart and close your eyes. You can take out your spectacles
also because it helps your eyesight.
Now when you have put your hand on your heart you have to ask Me a very important question,
you may call Me Shri Mataji, if you can, or you can call Me Mother – whichever suits
you, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Ask this question three times. In your heart ask the
question, “Mother, am I the Spirit?”
If you are the Spirit then you are your guide, you are your master and all the prophets have
built in a center in your being on the left-hand side of your abdomen in the upper part. You
place your hand and press it hard and here you ask Me another question three times, “Mother,
am I my master? Mother, am I my guide?” Ask this question three times.
Now please put your right hand in the lower part of your abdomen, on the left-hand side.
As I told you this is the center of pure knowledge which manifests on your central nervous system,
but I cannot force on you. You are free to choose. I respect your freedom, so unless
and until you ask Me I cannot bestow anything like that or force you to accept anything.
So you have to say, ”Mother, please give me pure knowledge.” Please say it six times,
because this center has got six petals.
When you ask for pure knowledge the Kundalini starts moving upward. So we have to open the
upper centers with our self-confidence. Raise your right hand in the upper part of the abdomen
on the left-hand side and say with full confidence in yourself ten times, “Mother, I am my
own master.” Please say it ten times.
Now the greatest truth about you is that you are not this body, you are not this mind,
you are not this intellect, you are not your conditioning, you are not your emotions, you
are not your ego but you are the Spirit. So please raise your hand on your heart again
and say with full confidence twelve times, “Mother, I am the Spirit.” Please say
it twelve times without doubting yourself. Please say it with full confidence twelve
times, “Mother, I am the spirit”, which you are.
Now we have to know that the Divine is the ocean of love and knowledge, it is the ocean
of compassion and bliss, but above all it is the ocean of forgiveness, and whatever
mistakes we have committed can be easily dissolved by that ocean. So we have to forgive ourselves
and we have to put our hand in the corner of our shoulder and our neck and turn our
head to our right and here with full confidence we have to say sixteen times, full confidence,
“Mother, I am not guilty at all.” Please say it with full confidence: You are not!
Let the Kundalini judge you, you don’t judge yourself and condemn yourself. Now put your
hand as far as you can, take it towards your spinal cord and turn your head to your right.
As I have told you that we have to forgive everyone. You don’t have to remember whom
you have to forgive, what they have done to you, what is their mistake and why they have
tortured you – nothing is to be remembered. At this present moment we have to know that
we have to forgive them and this is the greatest weapon we have got, that we can forgive everyone
by which we neutralize them completely. They cannot be effective on us. And let the Divine
look after them. So now here you put your hand on your forehead across and bend your
head and press it *** both the sides. Here you have to say from your heart, not
how many times, “Mother I forgive everyone.” Believe Me – only saying this from your
heart you’ll feel very much relieved, very much relieved. Please say that, “Mother,
I forgive everyone.”
Now take back your hand, put it on the back side of your head, what you call as the [optical
?] area and push your head on top of it and let it rest on it and here you have to say
without thinking about your guilt, your mistakes, on anything, just for your satisfaction you
have to say, “Oh Divine, if we have done any mistakes, if I have done any mistakes,
please forgive Me.” Is for your satisfaction, but please do not try to find false with yourself.
Now stretch your hand, and the center of your hand please put it on to the soft bone that
was in your childhood called as fontanel bone area and press it hard, bending your head,
push back your fingers. And now you have to move it seven times, very slowly clockwise.
But before that I’m sorry that I cannot cross your freedom. In your freedom you have
to ask for your Self Realization. It cannot be forced, it’s too precious to be forced
on anyone, so you have to say that, “Mother, please give me my Self Realization.” And
move it seven times slowly clockwise, pressing
it
very hard, pushing back
your fingers, slowly, very slowly – please do it.