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Interviewer: So were you happy
when the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was repealed recently?
Gale Davis: Yes. And wanted my
job back. Wanted reparations.
Wanted to be made a general. Uh...
[laughter] Making up for lost time.
In the military I didn't
know anybody was gay because we were all hiding from everybody
but, a few years before
in college, I knew a student
who was gay and then
fifty years later, I'm talking
with some alumni and
one of my roommates, because we had a triple room, said he was gay
and he was trying to be naked in front of me as much as possible
but I didn't notice [laughter] 'cause I'm
a freshman and trying to
hide my gayness, and I
never noticed him being any more naked than
anybody else [laughter]
But, he went into the airforce. He got married. He had four
children. I don't know why you would have four children if you knew all along
you were gay. And, he said he
fooled around in high school back in Pennsylvania
But
I've never been married, I've never had a fake marriage
I thought
you were supposed to be honest
and not, even though it's dangerous, I knew we
could be all collected and sent away to some camp
somewhere, but I tried to be honest. But yet,
keep hidden.
Interview: So what did you do after the airforce?
This was about '61? Gale Davis: Yeah.
Well, I went to bible college in Pennsylvania
and my lover Steve Jones and I met here. He
also was a gay, born again
Evangelical Christian, and my
observation is that there are a lot of Christians
Conservative Christians, from all different denominations
who are gay. They were born that way
and a number of pastors...gay pastors
who were thrown out of their congregation
or they left before they could be discovered
I knew one fellow who pastored in Cleveland
Tennessee. He got fired from his church
for getting a divorce. But the reason that he got the divorce
was he was gay, but they didn't go into that.
Because you could also be fired for wearing shorts.
A conservative congregation. You couldn't mow your yard
wearing shorts in Tennessee.
But all the different denominations, they have different
different....approaches of why
they're the best group, and all those other people are wrong
because they do things we don't do
[laughter] Having graduated from two bible
colleges, I've been observing all the different groups
that form and split and reform. I keep
discovering new denominations that are a
further split [laughter] 'cause they have a different
take on it, but they're sure that they've got the right...right way to go
Interviewer: So you mentioned that your
thesis, thesises, or however that is said plural,
Do you want to go into that a little more? Gale Davis: Oh, well
I've read a lot of magazines and newspapers and I've met all kinds of
people, and people seem to open up
pretty much to me and tell me lots of things. Sometimes I don't
want to hear what they're telling me [laughter] but they're being honest with me
'cause I've rode
buses and just went a lot of different places
and so I've been observing
what's going on
'cause, and back in my first college, people
would ask me my opinion and I didn't want to have one
til I studied the issue, and there are lots of issues
so I would go hear people speak, even though I
mostly didn't agree with them, and I met
communists, athiests, conservatives,
all different kinds of people, but I listen
and try to pick out the good ideas they have
and...and something that made common sense
and not get...carried away because you're
you lock yourself into a narrow path
and you're stuck there [laughter]
But I've been mailing my
my opinions out
to a variety of people, and
all over the country
and
I'm working on
getting a..a gay church here in town
'cause in Nashville we had five and that wasn't enough
'cause the Episcopalians didn't have
a church, the gay Episcopalians
The gay Pentecostals didn't have a church
and various other groups of people have different music
they've got different theology, and they felt real comfortable growing up
in their home church, in their denomination, and
their language and traditions, so
five gay churches in that town wasn't enough [laughter]
I co-pastored an Evangelical gay church
in Nashville. We had three pastors
and the one was a guy in a wheelchair
I don't remember his technical term, but he was very short
and he had to have an electric wheelchair, and he was
an ordained preacher and he had to have
an assistant 'cause he had a lot
of limitations. But he was gay
there are gay people who are deaf and sign at
the bars in Nashville, you see deaf gay people
and all different varieties of gay people
[laughter] and now we can talk
to one another in public and don't have to sneak
around.
Interviewer: So how has Urbana shaped your
your life in regards to your sexuality or
in general? Because you said your parents have been
here, and your grandparents, and so there seems to be something that
brings you back. Gale Davis: Yes, I grew up a block and a half from the university
and the university brings in all kinds of speakers
so I got to go hear people speak
and run up and ask questions afterwards [laughter]
sometimes I was a reporter, sometimes I was just on my own
talked to Billy Graham a couple of times, and
Eleanor Roosevelt, and Carl Sandburg
and Buckminster Fuller, and all kinds of folks
right here, or political candidates would come
down on the railroad and stop
and speak to a big crowd at the
train station.
And...so there was a good bit of
political people coming through town. Running for president
much of my life. Seemed like every four years
I have a really big year, when there's a general
election, and a lot of things happen
every four years. So I can
date things back
when I was 16,
I had this strong impression. I was downtown Champaign
in front of the W. T. Grant department store
and I had a real strong impression that I should
hang in there and that I would do something
important, and
that I should just be a survivor. And it
wasn't the voice of God, but it was really a strong
impression that
I should be careful and learn all I could
and do things that will make a difference
and it's...it's not like a religious
calling, but it's a life calling
that I should do things in moderation
and have fun, but
look before crossing the street! I don't want to get
hit by a truck before my time is over with [laughter]
So,
Interviewer: So, really quickly
is there anything that you were wanting to say that I haven't asked you before?
Gale Davis: Well,
It's been...the progress has been really slow
and a lot of people
who worked on gay liberation have died
I've had 36 friends die from AIDS
I've had four gay friends murdered
nice people, separately murdered,
and within a week or two, in each case they found the murderers
It's insane
And there have been people murdered who
people thought were gay and weren't
A guy thrown off a bridge, but to have two
boyfriends murdered, one was a student with me at
Parkland College, and he went
to the University of Washington and got murdered out there
and the third guy was a potential boyfriend
and the fourth murdered gay friend
in Nashville, he had been
going to Metropolitan Community Church there in Nashville for
22 years, then he came to our church,
Day Spring Christian Fellowship, because gay people can go
to several churches,
and so
Billy wasn't a boyfriend, but the other three, I took it
pretty personally. They'd been murdered for no reason
other than being perceived of being gay, which they happened to be
but, they shouldn't have been murdered
and three of them were strong
fundamentalist Christians. They weren't
some wild liberal,
they were conservative Christians, so
Interviewer: So you mentioned the idea
of being gay and fundamentalist Christian.
And so I know there is difficulty in straddling both
identities. Can you talk about that at all? So, within
gay communities, it is common that people are not super religious, and kind of
hyper-critical of it. But then in certain
religious organizations, they are also critical of homosexuality
Can you talk about what it is like to be
straddling both of those? Gale Davis: Well, I
knew that I wasn't going to get a job
upon finishing bible college
[laughter] but I wanted
a very deep education. Of course, we discussed
everything in four years of bible college
except that particular issue
[laughter] but
Well, I belong to the National Association of
Evangelicals, who three years ago
had their president from
Colorado Springs exposed for
paying a rent boy to have sex
and buying him illegal drugs and the
Colorado preacher was the head of 30,000,000 Evangelical Christians
and had to resign his job nationally and
his church in Colorado Springs
But he was married. He shouldn't have been messing around
But he was hiding his gay side
all through his life
and now he's...he thinks he's cured and started another church
He shouldn't be doing any church work
[laughter]
Interviewer: Well it is now 7
so if there are any last words you would like to say, feel free.
Gale Davis: Read Jeff Graubart's book
[laughter] The Quest for Brian
but there are so many new books coming out, it's just opening up
I love it that people are coming clean
Interviewer: Really quickly, one thing that I read about
that book, is that it is a mix of fact and fiction
so, but you said it's very close to
what happened? Gale Davis: Oh yeah! And in the back, he mentions...he reveals some
of the character's real names, Suze Orman, and
other people that he'd used
their novel names during the novel, but it was very
dead on [laughter]
I'm so glad he wrote it!
Interviewer: Well thank you very much! Gale Davis: Certainly!