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Tito: “We have shed a sea of blood to preserve brotherhood and unity of our nations.
We shall not allow anyone to sabotage and disturb that brotherhood and unity.”
One day in Croatia, a granade has landed beside me, than I stood breathless.
You do not know what happenned, is it possible that those shells *** like that.
It is really fear and you can not believe. That granade when you see it flying over
and when it explodes beside you... I was in total shock.
A rifle seemed to me like a cannon, look at that,
but when the first grenade rocked near me, I did not know where I am.
It is a real shock, unbelievable.
The spirit in people has gone lost.
Although computers and mobiles contributed to it largely, so people became pretty dumb, you know.
Now you head off with your girlfriend, well OK in a big city, but here in this small town,
I take a mobile “Hello, where are you?”,
then you “Here I am”, then again “Where are you”. Ridiculous!
What happened to conversation?
And those video games, Playstation 2... That’s brain death.
That is something which emerged after that war, like a cherry on top.
Ever more the word “Croat” has been used in the sense “enemy”.
Although, those people live here for ages. I have more to do with Croatia than they do.
I believe that they are the ones which hoped most that the war does not start.
The people were confronted to decide which side are they on.
I believe that at that time they were in the worse position.
I was serving Yugoslav National Army in Croatia when the war started there.
I was taken prisoner of war and than released. When I came home, I joined the Serb Army.
I am sad that it all happened, as it did, that I have had to leave Mostar.
I had one difficult situation, at night in the hospital,
where I was told that I am not welcome to work there any longer,
probably only because I am Serb.
And suddenly, we felt great hatred, ustasha songs were sung again,
black collars and all that, publicly,
groups of people who openly expressed hatred against anything non-Croat.
When things starting developing, than the story of new borders Karlobag-Karlovac...
Although it appeared unbelievable to me that such escalation could happen,
after a while I have thought that I must include myself,
because if I was to become a part of Serbia, which I never was...
On the other hand I knew that years would pass and that my children would ask me one day
where I was if such bad things were happening?
At the beginning of war I joined the army and retired last year.
He told me “The times we had are now over.
You should go to your people, this is not your state, this is my state. Look for a place to go.”
I have left Kostajnica on 4th Aug 1995. We traveled in convoy for 13 days,
crossed into Serbia on the 14th day.
The beginning! If we say beginning, than something must have been before that,
all those preparations, which in my view, came from the Serb side
I come from the royal town of Knin.
I was refugee in Split from 1991-95, when I returned.
When they were expelled from Kostajnica, few Croats have stayed.
They had difficulties there is no doubt about that. Some people where even killed.
I saw it on film, that three people were killed by special forces. Serbs killed them.
My father lives in Zagreb, my mother in Belgrade.
So I was separated from my father for 4 years.
My older brother was in our army at that time, but fortunately was not sent to the front.
The most horrible possibility for me was the chance that
two of them meet each other on the front at opposite sides.
That was my nightmare.
People from Serb and Croat side usually met in Hungary in the border area.
Meeting my father after 4 years was heavy somehow,
I did not know how to react, he did not know.
It was very emotional. That pack of emotions was such a heavy burden,
I believe I’ll remember that as long I live.
People around us were crying, do not know whether to cry or laugh. Quite a strong image.
Several times people asked me “Are you a Serb or Croat”, and I did not know what to say.
I did not want to define myself at all.
Where was it all buried in people for so long that it could burst so quickly
and produce such horrific events, so that we are avoiding each other,
or even worse being in fear of each other.
I am not particularly delighted with any of these nations,
including Serbs, although I am one of them.
Serbs are really nice people, I was going to church sometimes and so...
We were going to mosque sometimes, made friends, also with Catholics and so...
They even asked me why my son was not going to religious classes. I said he was late.
In his classroom there were only two Serbs there.
But they are wise people, and they will achieve all their goals, I congratulate them.
It is our own fault if we are incapable.
What do I know, in front of me, they also say that they are sorry,
but I do not believe them really.
None of them was killed, some of Muslims were, but I do not hate neither of them.
You really feel the pain about all that.
And how could you know what each person has done in the war?
I believe that people must see the difference
between right and wrong, regardless of nationality.
We can not say today in Croatia
“We are Croats, the good guys, and these are Serbs, so they are bad”. It is not like that.
I can not glorify Serbs now, only, I can not. They suffered and all... but I am really sorry.
I can not take side, as I can not betray any of my parents.
My father is Montenegrin, my mother Croat.
Until the war I declared myself as Yugoslav, and felt best with that.
I am not nostalgic for Yugoslavia, but now I sometimes feel as if I was inexistent.
I know that both sides feel mistrust towards me.
In 1991 my national identity was Yugoslav.
While I was refugee in Belgrade, I felt as Croat, whereby now I am Serb.
I have never felt a “greater” Serb than now.
We are here ustashas, and when we go to Croatia we are chetniks.
Meaning traitors which had no understanding for the Croat matter,
and here traitors and ustashas because we did not support the Serb matter.
I can not accept that someone says “All Serbs are like this and that.”
So I can not allow myself to accept anyone saying
“All Croats, Muslim or Slovenes are like that”. To generalize like that.
Not all are the same and that can not be simply.
But, if you approach as Croat saying “You Serbs, this and that”
without looking at your own side, than it is very bad.
I am happy to be immune of all those things.
I have no feeling of nationality or religious belonging.
My grandmother was in ustasha concentration camp in WWII, my mother was refugee than,
but I never felt hatred against me there.
I had holidays every year in Croatia, never had problems or felt that I was not welcome.
Did your granny ever tell you about the time of WWII?
No, no, she never wanted to speak about it.
And would you like to know?
Yes, but she does not want to speak, I have been trying for years to make her talk.
My grandfather died few years ago, when he was 95 of age.
His neighbors at the village were Serbs.
He spoke German as he has lived also in Austro-Hungary...
Since I remember him, he always said that people are divided to people and to ***,
and that they can not be divided any other way.
Either you are a good person, or you are a ***.
That’s how I feel about attacks on me today, I do not feel that it is because I am a Croat.
It is simply an expression of hatred and stupidity, and I can not connect that to a nation.
I also remember my priest in Subotica, when I told him that there is no church in Cacak,
he was astonished and asked me “How come?”.
I told him that there is no catholic church.
He asked “Well, is there a church at all?”,
“Yes, I said”, “well than, do you think that God minds what church you’re entering?”.
“You go inside, to think about what you’ve done and what you’ll do,
and God doesn’t care where from you are addressing him”.
Priests in Cacak reacted the same.
So I can not differ whether it is a Serb speaking against Croats or vica versa,
I just see him as a great fool and feel pity for him.
Everything is possible here. We have memory like a fly, two seconds.
You know why a fly returns to the same spot all over again, because it has 2 sec memory.
“Oh look at that spot, haven’t been there!” – that’s how we are.
Generally I have more complaints to my side, than to the other,
which my side will certainly not approve of.
On the Serb side, I do not understand, not admitting things and hide behind not knowing,
even now after 10-15 years.
I do not reproach them anything, absolutely nothing.
Well, I reproach them the same as I reproach Croats,
that they let themselves be politically manipulated.
There was the same kind of political manipulation in Serbia and in Croatia,
and I reproach my own people for that, which is important to do.
I see no enemy in Serbia, I just see manipulated people
who still need to make huge steps to open up their eyes.
I might have had reproaches before, because of propaganda at those times,
Croats did that, Croats, did that. At those times nobody told us that Serbs did the same,
so I might have had reproaches subconsciously, but I have never hated that nation,
or else hate anyone.
On the other hand, I personally am a member of their nation, in a way.
I have something which hurts me and what I reproach strongly, to all three sides.
Why did people overnight start seeing their friends and colleagues just through the lens
of ethnic origin and judge them accordingly. They stopped seeing you as a person.
That is the greatest pain I bear inside me.
I am deeply aware that there was an aggression on Croatia, so during and after the war
I was angry with some Serbs, not all, but those who started all that.
I often ask myself whether I’m angry only at those who were in combat.
I don’t know much about Krajina and Slavonia, so many people fled from there,
they did not run away from good, who’ d flee from good?
I was in Bosnian Kostajnica, now Serb Kostajnica, sat there and angled.
The bridge was destroyed and watched across the river at my house, I could see a baby-bed.
It was hanging here, one could see it nicely.
I had nothing else left and I felt very very miserable.
I had a chance to speak to a mother who lost her son in Vukovar and still searches his body.
If you want to feel that situation, you’ll feel the pain of a mother missing her son.
Hence a person who fled their home, wishes to return, and if you want to understand him
you can, you’ll feel their need, their will and love towards home.
Therefore it is all a matter of approach to people.
I believe that the only just, true and fair formula of behavior, is the formula of being human.
Greatest responsibility in my opinion has the political top of Croatia,
and I also need to name the political top of Serbia.
Many people here thought that if we chuck Serbs out of Croatia, we’ll be better off,
but it did not get better, we’re actually worse off than before.
What opinion of Serbs have I had?
Well after being expelled from Knin, I had a very bad opinion.
At those times, as a youngster I was a nationalist,
because I experienced that only for being other nationality I had to leave my town.
But, as time went buy and my views ripened, I realized that nationalism is a very bad thing
which makes people spin in a spiral of evil.
That is when someone looses everything because of nationalism,
experience sufferings, death of dear ones, loses home etc.
And after all that he repeatedly embraces nationalism in order to resolve these problems.
And so it goes on and on in a circle.
Certain people of Croat origin have expressed their justified frustration
caused by injustice during the war, by handling it the old Balkan way, by revenge.
That is horrible, as nothing is achieved, but just repeated.
As my husband’s name is Jovan, he’s a Serb, he went to his brother in Serbia.
My daughter finished high school in Belgrade in July that year.
Since her boyfriend was in Sisak she returned here and after a while
they moved in together planned to marry soon.
At the day it happened, he traveled to Sarajevo,
he was supposed to go anyway, I never found out how far he got.
Because in the evening of 17th Sep when the curfew started, they killed my child.
I feel as belonging to nowhere, nobody, as I have no rights whatsoever,
but for 14 years I’m fighting for my daughter and beside her also for other people.
Engineers, doctors and others were taken out of the refinery…
I know that before the war one could not smuggle a bottle of petrol out of the refinery
and that they could kill people and carry them out, without anyone witnessing,
I think it’s impossible.
Until 1995 people said that they fled to Serbia, all those Serbs who disappeared.
And after all, where are they now?
Until justice system does not bring justice to all, regardless of their nationality, for all war victims,
there will be no reconciliation.
Until I find out who has killed my daughter and why.
How can someone walk freely after murdering 100 people? How?
I know that Serbs slaughtered, but by God, the Croats did also, very much so.
Those who committed war crimes, such atrocities regardless of nationality,
I would sentence them to death penalty, if it’d be proven.
Those who slaughtered people must be sentenced lifelong.
Hey imagine taking a knife in your hand, be it to slaughter a chicken, it does not matter,
hey but that can not be.
Whoever did that should be imprisoned for life, no discussion.
If I can contribute by supporting a person who dared to testify about crimes he witnessed and
which haunt him for 15 years, than I will do that as a human being foremost.
You can not emphasize one victim and ignore others,
we should all confess, all committed crimes, my nation also, so like the other two,
individuals from these 3 nations.
And I should not bear guilt my whole life as a Serb,
because of some which smeared our name.
Everyone should account for what they committed…
I approve no Serb which defends someone who committed crime. Never.
Nation as such can not be guilty.
There are individuals which must be processed for their atrocities,
all perpetrators, regardless of their religion or nationality.
Me being a Serb, I have maybe learnt something from year 1991,
but I doubt that my whole nation has learned from it.
The proof of that is what happens now around the 10th anniversary of Srebrenica crime.
I believe that as a collective we have learned nothing,
but that we run away and deny, because it is easier to live that way.
Let us put it all under the carpet of subconscious and live on as nothing happened.
The same thing happened to Croats in 1995.
Three days after militarily retaking this place, they acted as if it was all normal,
and crimes were happening all around.
We can not all close our eyes now and say, yes that happened but it is not my fault,
I did not do this or that.
I believe that we as a collective, not only nation of Croats, but the whole region,
are responsible and that we must act responsibly.
I think that I was aware of it all at the end of the war, when the action Storm started,
for which as a former soldier I can say that
I can not feel proud because of that action, as it had many negative sides.
And it was more a political, not military action.
I remember well the Summer of 1995, I was in Knin, before the collapse of so called Krajina.
The action Storm came.
In Serb media it was titled a biblical expulsion of people from this area.
And fifteen days before that,
a mass of people lost their lives in Srebrenica of whom we knew nothing.
And we complained about our fate, how we must flee, how threatened we are.
And many of us came to Belgrade and still live there,
unaware that behind 5 mountains and hills one whole nation was wiped out.
And we feel no responsibility for that.
Not only we, but also those who committed those crimes,
who attack now, trying to hide their guilt.
As long there is condemnation of only one side,
we do nothing else but perfect preconditions for the next war.
For many it is easier to blame Serbs for everything,
"than to say "Hey, I’m also responsible for what happens in this society"."
People run away and choose the easiest way.
When shall we reach the moment, that people explain themselves why was that all started,
why when nothing was achieved.
At last, not that I advocate that, but why did it end if nobody reached their goals?
If it was all started, why does it end here, why did you come, shake hands,
sign the paper and now it’s supposed to be over?
There is a lack of confronting our own past, here.
"We all consider "the homeland war" to be sacred, but no war can be that."
Any war has a white and it’s black side, more black.
Franjo Tudjman is a criminal for me, and I say that as a president of War Veterans Association.
When there’s someone on the other side to speak freely and say that Slobodan Milosevic is
a criminal, than we’ll be at the right path towards better future for this region.
During the war, many people who’s place is behind bars, were let do things they did,
in order to intimidate, pursue revenge or whatever.
Someone knew that, someone planned that, someone implemented that,
and all of those deserve the same punishment.
And I do not understand this difference being made among those people.
So "yes, they are criminals, but those who are "our", "our’s!",
well yes those who shot are criminals. Hardly anyone can justify a cold-blooded ***.
But, did he really order that ***, no he’s a patriot, he’s a hero, he’s…
There’s a certain type of individuals who categorize people in flocks and tribes
like "we Croats, you Serbs", "you attacked us, you are evil".
Serbs probably think "only we are blamed now and brought to the Hague court"…
That can also be some indicator for things which happened here,
What indicator?
how many people have committed bad things.
If I was returned by time machine back to 1992, I’d run away from it all.
If you fought at Tito’s time you were recognized as someone worth respect.
If you’d done it now, you turned out to be a fool, you went to war defending your people,
and at the end you’re the ludicrous one, like in cartoons.
When you mention at some party that you were in war they say "ah, leave that…"
In postwar time all those thieves who did not fight honestly and fairly, want to cover that up.
If I’d wind the time back, I’d run far away, or hide somewhere in some cave.
We must not allow that wars are glorified nowadays.
I respect all that, I was in war for 4 years, ready to die and all that.
It means that I’ve had an ideal for which I’d die, but does not necessarily mean that I was right.
People realized. Right after the war they pointed out fingers when they saw a Muslim or a Croat,
but now they realized how cheated and robbed they were. You know?
Especially now, with all the poverty, they realised how cheated they were.
I think I can never understand shooting at people, bombing, threatening someone’s life.
Beside all that abstract storytelling of ideology, for me human life is all that matters,
more important than the whole universe.
Actually human life is the universe.
I still remember that excitement of wearing a pioneer’s cap and scarf, it was great.
That Tito’s system had some nice style for a kid, you remember these things your whole life.
It needn’t be a cap and a scarf.
"Now everyone jumps when you mention that and they say: "Tito was bad, this and that"
Tito times were bad because you could not freely say anything”.
"I couldn’t say "Hey Tito, go to hell" or "Hey Croat, go to hell ","
as if I would gain something by saying that.
I don’t know.
You gained something which you see as bad yourself, you started hating someone.
You can hardly be happy with that, than according to that, do not spread something
which presses you, regardless of your conviction to be on the right side.
I see no point in people flocking to streets to express revolt
"and mass-shouting "I think this or that"."
It is an absurd in it’s core, that in a society which claims to care about faith and God so much,
the hate towards one group is the bonding link between them.
I could never understand or accept that.
You do not have to love each other, we simply wanted to state
that you don’t have to hate each other.
Human is just a human for me, and real people have remained human,
regardless of their religion.
Well you can’t tell… it hurts you when you meet, I even cry and hug those people and friends,
but somewhere deep it hurts. Of course.
There are some words which can not be outspoken.
Why should I cry and weep now…
My brother died, my sister’s husband, the only son of my sister.
I knew nothing of their death for 18 months.
Sure I can understand that
when people lose their dear ones, someone they love,
that things change.
It is hard to split emotions and common sense and raise above that,
which is a precondition for dealing with own responsibility, start from yourself
and then the responsibility of your society and country.
Let’s leave that, "the time heals wound", I do not think that is correct.
Many people never had a chance to speak of their pain.
Many had not mourned their loved ones, hadn’t find their graves.
Many do not know where to light a candle.
There’s a quote from the Bible "who is without sin, may be the first to cast a stone".
We take the easy way, we all wish to throw a stone, but none would admit our own sins.
Therefore it is unthankful for me to point out to the other side and blame them.
I believe that any human, any nation must see an objective picture, starting from oneself.
It’s not the point to be ashamed of your own mistakes, but to learn from them
and grow stronger by admitting own mistakes and correcting them. So that one can progress.
There are not many Hitlers nowadays like " we are *** , you’re not and finished".
Not many really intelligent people are being like that now.
They have no power of persuasion to potentially convince you of their opinion.
Exactly the oposite!
Those so called nationalists are exactly people who could not show you a museum or a temple,
could not explain you the meaning of their name, could not say anything about religion.
They know nothing of all those things they allegedly defend,
as if someone wants to take them away.
Why should anyone prove their patriotism by going to the demonstration of radicals
and buy a Chetnik T-shirt.
I must admit, as Croat and president of Croat Association of demobilized soldiers,
that the point is not to blame the Serbs for what they did under political orders.
The point is that I say that for my own people, which is exactly what I do publicly,
against all negative things in my environment.
But, the question is whether they want to confront their bad things.
Not because of us, but for themselves,
and only then for our mutual tolerance and joint future. Only then!
Every time you say "let Muslims and Croats do that first" it is shifting responsibility.
I know that nobody’s innocent, such war takes two always.
But each of us should condemn crimes committed in their name.
We should react swiftly to any violence, speech of hatred, injustice
not only inter-ethnic but any injustice done.
I feel sorry for people like my own parents or parents of someone my age, from Zagreb,
because those people do not hate, but are afraid of those who hate.
What hurts you more, those who attack you, or those who keep silent at that?
Those who keep silent, because I expect attacks from those who do it,
but those who ignore injustice done to others and think it’s not their concern,
are surely next in line.
That’s what these times are like: sad, miserable and full of pain.
Refugee from Mostar, Village Zijemlje, Nevesinje, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Musician, Split, Croatia
Nurse, refugee from Mostar, Nevesinje, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Minister of Agriculture, Belgrade, Serbia
Retired, Ex-combatant of the “Homeland war”, Zagreb, Croatia
Musician, Belgrade
Teacher, Kragujevac, Serbia
Activist, ex-combatant of the “Homeland war”, Šibenik, Croatia
Student, Belgrade, Serbia
Teacher, Osijek, Croatia
Mother and activist for human-rights, Sisak, Croatia
Friend, Zemun, Serbia
Activist for peace, nonviolence and human-rights, Osijek, Croatia
Journalist and musician, returnee to Knin, Croatia
Refugee from Mostar, Nevesinje, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Activist, ex-combatant of the “Homeland war”, Šibenik, Croatia
Refugee from Kostajnica (Croatia), Belgrade, Serbia
Psychoterapist, returnee to Knin, Croatia
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