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HEART NET TV
Our Voice
Shinjuku 2 cho-me, Tokyo, Japan
We made a talk show from the gay street of Tokyo.
Tonight's theme is "MARRIAGE".
We had lesbian and gay couple for discussion.
Last night, broadcast about Takashi who had gay marriage in the Netherlands.
There are so many surprises what we can't expect them in Japan.
In the Netherlands, same-sex marriage is just normal thing.
Takashi Nakamura, will you accept Michiel Witkam as your legal husband.
Yes, I will.
Japan doesn't have legal system about same-sex partnership or marriage.
Takashi's marriage was celebrated by both persons families.
Japan has so many LGBT persons who even can't introduce their partner for family.
TAKASHI'S MOTHER
Every country has different policy about marriage system.
What is the marriage? --- We discuss about various possibilities of partnership.
LET'S START TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE AND PARTNERSHIP.
What a wonderful episode.
How did you think?
For me, Speech by Michiel's son Wouter was very moving. I get tears.
Under the sunglasses, he cried, I suppose.
I was thinking what the law or what the differences of countries by this documentary.
We want to talk about "Marriage" tonight.
How's your marriage, Ira? You are married, aren't you?
Yes I am. I think marriage is the law which person and person can live together happily.
But marriage includes a lot of meanings such as cultural and religious background.
So it would be true what minority people face to difficulties.
How do you think, Elly?
I really want to have child. But I don't mind married or not.
Just loving couple should be together.
Such like a documentary what we just watched, two loving couple is essential.
Takashi said "Sexuality is not important" in the film and I agree with that.
I just want to be with my partner and a child. To marry or not is not very important.
How long are you as couple, Bourbonne and Takashi?
Almost 3 years.
I have to explain in the beginning. We came here as a gay couple.
A cross-dressed performer Bourbonne and his Takashi are 3 years gay couple.
Takashi is manager of Bourbonne. They are public and private partner.
I am an ordinary middle aged person who love other man.
I am gay.
But I just use my feminine talent for a job as a cross-dressed performer.
Usually we have dating as two "middle aged men".
We are ordinary middle aged female, too. We are couple for 18 years.
Yoko and Chizuka came from NGO that support LGBT people. They are a lesbian.
They live together with birds as family.
For me, family or marriage is the system that we can share ordinary life or feeling.
And being close together.
For example, just-launched couple have difficulties to find to place to live in Japan.
I think lesbian couples actually have easier situation about it.
I suppose you are right, lesbian couples can be easier.
We call it "Room Sharing", but we would be asked by owner
whether can continue to pay money after broke up.
Gay couple is worse. Owners think that men are rougher and naughtier than women.
"Sharing house" by other couples would be easier, otherwise it is still quite big hurdle.
Straight couples are very easy to rent a house.
Straight fiancée also have no problem.
One more detail, contract of mobile phone and car insurance are also unfair.
A lot of Japanese companies provide special contract for family member.
Same-sex couple can't use any of those services.
It is really tiny thing though.
But it is certainly quite unfair.
Very few company clearly say same-sex couple also can use family discount.
So it is getting better.
We have to explain about the relationship when I introduce Chizuka to other friend.
I say we are living together because we are more than friend.
They ask me what means "more than friend"?
I answer Chizuka is my partner. And some people realize but some people don't.
It is quite awkward what I have to explain about my partner every time.
Oh I see now. Without marriage, same-sex couple have lot of demerit in daily life.
We watched the situation about the Netherlands (Holland).
The Netherlands is the first country to recognize same-sex marriage in the world.
But they also had a long history of fighting to gain the right.
It is quite interesting history. Let's check it up.
The Netherlands - The world premiere country of same-sex marriage.
V V V
All sexuality are naturally accepted in Dutch society.
Tourist Information Center provides "Gay Map" as one of touristic resources.
Clubs or bars for *** minority are introduced in this map.
Why such a unique society has come true in the Netherlands?
It has a shadowy past of the second world war.
This is the *** monument.
It is the memorial stone of homosexual people who killed by Nazi of Germany.
Nazi called homosexual people who bring racial decline.
Homosexual people are opressed.
They are sent to concentration camp and they had to put the pink triangle on chest.
9000 homosexual people of European countries has killed by Nazi.
In the Netherlands, people swear what it should never happen again.
Then LGBT movements has started which expand *** minority's right.
The voice as homosexual marriage should be recognized is getting louder.
In the beginning, Gay newspaper started the campaign to change the law.
And a same-sex partner bring a legal action to gain right against the government.
Those kind of discussion make the citizens wake to discuss nationally.
But homosexual couples have different ideas.
COC exists more than 60 years.
Early time, COC didn't take the positive stance for same-sex marriage.
Because LGBT people didn't want to be controlled by law of the marriage.
There were so many people who were thinking marriage is not for LGBT.
I was around 18 years old. I never dreamed of marriage.
Because I was educated what marriage is not made for homosexual people.
Two different opinion people discussed very hard.
But people who really wanted to get the right of marriage.
Henk Krol, he is one of initiative of this movement.
Henk is one of member of Parliament now.
He was the chief editor of Gay newspaper in that time.
Marriage has a lot of merit for homosexual people.
So he made the campaign in all over the Netherlands.
What two persons just sign on the paper brings a lot of social support
such as pension, unemployment insurance, or tax deduction, etc.
All surrounding of couple changes. That why same-sex marriage has big meaning.
One of the first couples who agreed with Henk
was a lesbian couple who grows children.
This couple realized the marriage brings a lot of help to grow children.
After this, homosexual people get changing.
Even anti-marriage people also agree with this stream and move forward to change.
In 2001, Marriage system which don't ask the sexuality has come true.
This part is about same-sex couples who had wedding first time in the Netherlands.
In this 10 years, more than 16000 couples are married.
The Netherlands - The first country which doesn't ask sexuality came true.
It is now the most comfortable country for *** minority people.
In abroad, people ask "You have same-sex marriage".
And every time I answer "No we don't have same-sex marriage".
But people still ask "But I saw it in the newspaper".
And I say "In the Netherlands, we only have the marriage for everyone".