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Do you think that what makes a good citizen
is a universal principle
or is there anything particular
to what is one regime or what is another one
Integrity is an integrity in Estonian
in Tsonga, my language, it's integrity.
But I think in Estonia
and in South Africa we both know
that stealing is wrong for example
that killing is wrong for example
I believe that human beings across the world
have basic principles.
How do you think family contributes to that?
Is that something that
you as a person are born with certain values
and family can enhance them
or reduce them?
What's the role of family and
tell a little bit of your mother
and how she brought you up?
One of the most amazing stories is
of a pair of identical twins
who both had a terribly abusive father.
And one became a model citizen
and another one became a horrible criminal
So when they asked the criminal how did you
become so horrible as a person?
In court he said, "My father did this and that to me,
what did you expect?"
From a model citizen they asked
"How did you become such a good family man
and a citizen?", he said, "My father did this and
that to me, what did you expect?"
So there is such a thing as personal will
to become something.
It is a nature-question what makes one person come out one way
and another go out that way.
My mother did an incredible thing,
in my house there were 2 principles, no more.
You don't steal.
And you don't lie.
And those 2 things, I came to realize later,
that they cover all moral problems.
If I say I'll meet someone at 12,
but I'm late, I'm like a liar.
I'm stealing their time.
If I say something I'll do it, but I don't
If I hurt somebody I'm stealing their happiness.
Another incredible thing she did,
which I consciously try to pass on to my son,
was to make me always feel I was important.
I don't remember my mother going once as I was
a little crawling thing.
She always referred to us as in plural
which in Tsonga is a sign of respect.
My landlady is a white lady
coming from a good farming family.
We talked with her how familiy grows a good citizen
and 40 years ago when she was
about 10-years-old girl,
a good citizen didn't talk to another white person,
when he interacted with black person.
So she told me a story that
when they saw the man coming towards them,
who everybody knew had a black wife,
the landlady was told not to interact with that person.
It was a good citizenship of that time
to separate yourself from other people.
And I like the story because
already then she felt that it was wrong
and also realizing the political context.
Was your family about apartheid era communicative,
or resistant or accepting?
Let me give you an example:
I went to university and
read biography of Malcolm X
and he was really radical black
saying that whites are devils etc
And I sat as far away from whites I could
I saw them coming, I moved 10 meters away,
I was the last one in the lecture hall,
so that I could choose the farthest distance from those devils.
And I go to my Mom and tell her
that I know how to deal with Whites and
by the way, they are devils.
She asked how do I deal with them
I told that I stayed away
and it's a lot of hard work
in a university where there are 2000 whites
and one black.
She said, "I'm glad that you found your way -
this is how I treat people:
When somebody tells a joke
and I think it's funny, I laugh.
When somebody tells a joke
and I think it's not funny, I don't laugh.
It doesn't matter if they're white, black,
female, whatever. That's how I treat people.
The best way to stop people
from being good citizens is to keep them too busy
with things they shouldn't be busy with.
I told my son that he has more time than me,
I had more time than my mother,
who had more time than their parents.
Because during apartheid my Mom had to wake up at 4,
go to work at 6 and come back at 8.
We were just parenting ourselves.
So I told my son that when you have time
now what you need to do
is to use it for the right reasons.
You need to decide
whether you should become drug user.
When you get offered drugs,
it is too late.
You must decide ahead of time.
Do I wanna die from overdose at 28?
Am I the kind that likes drugs?
Yes, I do? Great! When they offer you,
say yes, I've been waiting for this.
Or you can say no.
If you don't use that time
you'll get offered too much pressure
You don't know which way to go
and you'll become an accidental junkie.
The quickest way of stopping
to become good citizens
is to steal their time.
You keep them poor,
uneducated, work for nothing,
you'll never get good citizens.
they're too busy.
But most South Africans are
unfortunately.
If you want good citizens, they need time
to think about stuff, digest them
We need those fundamentals
to contribute meaningfully
to the betterment of our society
Because for me
being good citizen means you must be
a positive contributer
to the betterment of our society.
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