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Okay, special day in our Country today; Flag Day.
June 14. This is the Facilities Meeting.
At 2:40 P.M.
Like to call the meeting to order.
Wade, would you like to direct us,
where you want for your agenda for today?
Yes, Mr. Chairman. We have a fairly light agenda today. We have 3 items which need to be discussed,
before the Committee. One is for the railroad, and that's an approval of an easement.
With St. Lawence Internet Connection Network Solutions.
A brief discussion on the location of the fence, and the Port access road.
And, I want to bring to your attention,
the Port parcel RFB respondents, and also the
from the New York State D.E.C., relative to the
Peregrine Falcon containment that went on here over the past couple of days.
So, first, why don't we jump right into
the railroad, in the Facilities packet. And, that is
the second page of the document. This is for
6 easements on railroad property.
On Authority Railroad property. You can see where the map is
on page 3 of the document.
John, would you like to make any comments about this?
Stereo Fiber Optic, using the existing National Grid utility poles.
6 locations,
Buck road in Madrid, between
7 in Lisbon, Austin Ridge Road in Norwood,
The Pray Road in Lisbon, Railroad Road in Potsdam,
and County Route 30 in Lisbon. There's a couple of typos in the resolution,
the second paragraph should say
May 31, 2017.
And then in the resolution section,
bottom of the first paragraph, should say
May 31, I believe, 2017.
Is the cost, or the fee,
that we know, is consistent with other locations?
Yeah. I mean is that, less; more? is it a
general number? That's what we're charging everybody, right?
Yeah, they have 2, 3 other easements with us,
and that's what we've been charging them.
22.50 per location...
for the 5 year term. Every year, of for one payment for 5 years?
One payment for 5 years. Oh. That's quite a bargain.
I was really tentative John...I was too. Well there's some we only charge
a dollar...you know, with National Grid. Yes. Okay.
For a lifetime or whatever...(chuckles) Yeah.
Well, you have to keep in mind it's for public good.
Yes. Bruce?
Is there going to be a second Committee meeting? You can come in this meeting.
Where's Bruce? (unintelligible)
...
Bruce holds a meeting on marketing quotes?
So, if there's any other questions that you have that we can answer?
No. I mean, John,
you initiate it. So, it's something you've been doing.
Hello there, Mr. Fred.
Hello. Hello. Just come in for a landing?
(chuckles) Glad you made it.
I'm not too late am I? No, we've got the first resolution...if you want to wait a second,
to look at it. Which one is it. The first one
on the easements. How much is that total?
22.50 times 6.
So it's not per year. No.
It's just the one lump sum for everybody.
I couldn't tell, because the resolution doesn't say that.
We just asked the question, you got to see! (chuckles)
We're all on the same wave length here, aren't we? Don't have to do it all over again.
Did you tell everything on it, Don? He did. He covered, yeah.
13,500. That's it.
Anymore questions? Motion to move that?
I make the motion to move it. Okay. Any seconds?
I'll second that. You'll second? Okay.
That was a weak second, but we'll count it as a second...(chuckles)
All in favor say aye? Aye.
...
This is what, the Facilities Committee Meeting? Facilities, yes.
Okay.
The second item is
discussion item only, but it does require consensus of the Facilities Committee.
This is on the Port access road. Specifically,
the "S" that you see on the diagram in front of you.
What we're looking to do here, is change the
fence into a powdered green chainlink
fence. We're looking to add the section indicated
in black. And, basically fence that area straight off,
and...
Okay, what was the difference in the price between the
bid spec fence, and the powdered green fence? What's the difference in that fence?
We don't know yet, because we need to negotiate that with the Contractor. It should be, directionally, it should be
less, because it less fence than what was in the bid.
The offset is, you're going to have a gate,
that is not installed in Wall Street. That is going to be a fence, which is to say
on that particular item of $5500.
There is a cost difference though, between the normal galvanized
chainlink fence, and the powdered green
chainlink fence. Okay, so do we know...That's the part we don't know.
I don't think we should exceed,
$1000 in that area.
Just to go from galvanized to that green.
[If] That's going to be more costly, say, at $1500
stay with the regular fence that we're going to put up.
Fred, whatever we do, we need to make a decision today.
Because, we need to fill in the Contractor...(interrupts) Well, as Chairman, I making a recommendation we don't
exceed $1500 to change the color.
To change it if it's less than 1500, go for it? If it's not...Right. If not, leave it like
the specs call for. You know, it's interesting you said that, because the
...I was thinking of...I know aesthetically
green is good, and looks really nice, and it's a little more
I would say professionally, not really...
institutional type of fence. Another thing I'm thinking, we have
all this galvanized fence, and all of the sudden we go with green,
does that really create a...I don't know...a different aura?
I was just trying to fit in there with the grass. Yeah, I know that.
And, I like the green, I'm not saying I don't like the green, but
what I want to identify...
That's fair for how much per foot, whatever it would be, I guess you could find that out?
The other question I have Fred, I know we
decided to close off Wall Street.
But, if we did that, could we have the post, Steve?
Put there in a way that at some point in time,
that while we're doing this fence, there could be a gate made,
So it could be the gate at some point in time? Not to make a gate, but have a post
there, so it could be turned into a gate? Yeah, the post you put in, it's
considerably more than the normal ones. Okay. So, you're kind of
maybe a 3rd of the way toward a regular gate. Yeah, we could
do that. So, in other words, let's say that this is the edge of the road where you have a gate, and then on the other side
I know you probably have another post in the middle. But, just in case, at some point in time, you say, okay let's
do a gate, so it just makes...(interrupts) But, we needed to do that, Mr. Chairman,
it really wouldn't be any problem at all, just to throw in
a swing gate there anyway. So, the posts are there,
I'm just thinking ahead a little bit. But I don't think we're putting much of a post down in there
if we ever had to do it. Well, what would we do it for?
Listen, who we don't know...(interrupts) No, but I mean, really, because we don't want
traffic down there. Our liability ends there, we don't have our
trucks in there, we don't have nothing in there. The restaurants; or somebody gets hurt...
it's a City property now. But I'd like to
keep our jersey barriers on this side of the fence.
And put proper things up. You know, "Dead End"; "Stop".
When you say this side you mean the public side or our side? Our side. If somebody goes through,
they're going to hit our fence and then the jersey barriers. Oh, okay, I just wanted the order in which they hit...
Right. (laughter).
And then, as Sam says, someday we
have to, you know, we'll probably be gone, and if somebody had to put a gate there,
it's not a big deal, because we've got swing gates. Yeah, we've got posts there.
Yeah, we've got everything so, it's something we could do. We currently may even be able to
manage a post, or excuse me, the fence off of
the existing...I think you can, it's not a
high use thing. But it's just a temporary thing, I think we may be able to do that,
with the existing posts that Kit (?) put in there. Okay. The reason I'm saying
not to exceed the 1500, is because it looks like every dollar we can
...we've got to start grabbing them. Okay. So, just so you're clear on this, I want to
make sure I relay the correct information here.
In the area in black, that's going to be fence, completely across there. And,
that will be fenced with the green fence.
Only if the green fence costs $1500 or less.
That's my feelings. Sam, what did you say?
Doesn't matter to you what color it is? No, I mean the
color's fine. I mean, obviously we...
Just one thing, Wade, the way we position this, is that make sure you're
comparing the same silver fence-length. Right. That galvanized
to the green, so that...(interrupts) The same linear foot of galvanized
versus the same linear foot of green. Yeah, because they may, compared to the original
design, and if looks like we're saving money, but in fact they buried the
powder coating in the cost. Would the posts be green to?
In this? If we had green? Yes. Everything would be green. Yeah. Okay.
(cross talk) I don't think...
I don't think we can get that for that price, but maybe we can. I guess we
investigate it, and if it's...you know.
(cross talk) The yellow line here is where the fence
was origninally going to be? No. The yellow line just indicates
that's kind of the top of the existing raid line. Okay.
This white line back here, is the other original
that's all the survey lines going down through. Okay.
(unintelligible) And, that area there is not being touched
it's going to be just like the peole had there. The only thing that's being changed,
is the fence along the road on the brim. That's it. And then,
this here's another day; that's long after the road's done.
We'll have to meet with these people and talk to them, and see what they want to do. Did Don see the letters that went out
asking the people during...(interrupts) I saw the letter, yeah.
That's the next issue. Well, that was my next question is, where do we stand
with these people that were here the last time. The answer to your question, there's
...I need that back, I apologize that we only have one, but...the blue area
the blue fence is where it was originally supposed to be.
Even though it hasn't changed direction.
This little jog is...
Well, see this is where people thought it was coming up in here, and they
wouldn't be able to...(interrupts) And the guy with the red shirt was really upset. Yeah. And, we've
pretty well have covered that with him, there's letter...Wade will tell you about that.
But then our fence line, now stays right on the brim.
And, it's going to actually help with the snow too, because if there's a blustery snow, it's going to hit that
fence. Otherwise, it's going to be dumped right onto our road. So, this way
here it helps us out too. And, still gives us enough room,
up on the top, to...
How they adapt to that, and...I talked to some other folks,
Mr. Chairman, in regards to the
property thing with how this works. And,
there's a lot of...we've got to do, before we can just...
Yes. Right.
But...
On it's own...It'll work. It'll work. Yeah. Wade, are you
aware of anyone that would be upset about where this
is drawn right now? No, I'm not aware. I wouldn't think so, but,
I mean that's well, 2, 300 feet off
property line there. Let me ask a question here,
I think Mr. Carter was onto something that
you'll all be able to identify, that, this fence is identified as
a safety fence. As a safety fence. That's correct.
It's a safety fence, not a boundary fence.
So, some such point in time, there may be an issuance of a boundary fence.
Yeah. After we meet with all the people down there, and see if we can work something out,
with them. And [there] may be some people that don't want it. No.
My point is this, Wade,
and everybody here, until that safety fence
...and we move land to get there,
at some point in time, the dirt and all the soil that's there,
will give people all access over that hill, right?
Without the fence. In other words, a kid can go over the hill, before
...Right, right. Presently there are 2 large piles of debris, and,
1 large pile of topsoil right in there. And, that's all going to go into
...Somewhere...at some point in time, there might have to be a
...would you agree, Steve, a snow fence of some sort to identify: that's the end of the
hill? And somebody could fall over that and get hurt?
We've got, probably, I don't know, we have probably at least half of that covered with safety fence now.
And, think that needs to be identified,
...(interrupts) It wasn't in the contract, but it's something we...(interrupts)...And I think the neighbors
are pretty good about this. Understanding that there is a drop-off, and
they've been living with it for many many years, but it's still law. Yeah, we've got snow fence presently installed
from right here...Here to there...all the way through. You mean, that orange fence?
Yeah. The orange fence. It's not going to stop anybody, but at least...(interrupts) Doesn't that guy own that?
Where the orange fence is? No. Doesn't he own the inside of that? Yes, he owns the
inside of that, but we put up a fence all the way down through. Right. But he owns it? Yes.
So, you're saying he runs way back there, where that orange fence is?
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, some people are really close down...(interrupts)...I didn't realize it until I went down
there that day, I asked Wade, why that was like that. He said, well, he owns that property.
That's why I'm saying...(interrupts)...But we put a boundary fence around, so we wouldn't have anybody in there.
Now the second issue that Mr. Carter mentioned is,
the draft letter to...(interrupts)...Let me stop you right there, Wade.
So, what we need to do is to identify that this is the
line that we would recommend to the Board. Correct?
I just need approval from the Facilities Committee, and then I can address it
with the Contractor. Right, but I'm saying, what you're telling us right now, we're going to identify that
fence, these designs. And you're going to price the fence,
purportedly. Right? Yes, and if there's a
$1500 differential, it will be just galvanized. (cross talk)
And, if it is...(interrupts)...There won't be a change order unless, if they want
more money for that powdered green fence, then it becomes a change order.
Then we'll have to bring that back. So, my question is, is this a resolution, or is this just
information? This is just for information. For information.
Okay. We'll call it information, okay.
But this isn't going to go in front of the full Board. Right. Okay.
All right. Thank you. This connects into the fence we've got there now? Right.
It's just going to be minus the barbed wire. Yes, there'll be no...
No. Okay. Right now in front of me, you have
2 things that have been...(interrupts)...Do you want Don and me to make a motion on this?
We could. I mean that's...(interrupts)...Well, that's what I was trying to say. Okay.
But didn't you say that, it doesn't need to come
before the full Board? I don't need a full Board resolution to do that, it's just,
this is one of these discussion items with the Committee that come up from time to time,
"what do you think, what do you want to do". That's good.
What do you say, Mr. Chairman, with it? No, I approve what they've got in front of us.
Okay. Then I don't have a problem with it. The second item that we have,
in front of you, references the draft copy of the letter
that I put together with assistance of council. The first one is
a draft to Ford Street residents, that
basically, it says, that we conducted a survey,
to identify the property boundaries. The survey markers are out there
in the field. Should you agree with them, we'll go ahead and
have pins set. If not,
please have a survey performed at your own expense, provide us a copy, and then we'll go from there.
That's the gist of the first letter.
The second letter draft is a little bit
more specialized, it deals with a unique situation, where
a piece of property - there's a structure on
an Authority-owned piece of property.
Basically, it says 2 things; it outlines what needs to be done,
to propose a quick claim. And, the second item
- what needs to be done, in terms of lease agreement.
What effect will this have on
the project? Anything, other than the fence, or just a clarification
of what the boundaries are...(interrupts)...This really has no effect. Okay, so, it's not going to hold us back
if somebody's got to go get their own surveyor, and they think it's all wrong...
it's not going to do anything...(interrupts) Yeah. This is independent. The issue
with the property boundaries and the project
are now essentially de-coupled...Now, did you
Frank, check that St. Lawrence County
...to make sure this is accurate, for what we were talking about
in this letter? The Survey? Yeah. The Survey is a WCT survey,
we have a copy of that, and I'm glad you mentioned that, because
that's one thing I forgot to mention. A copy of that will go out
with each of these letters, so that way, they have the same information we do. Okay.
When that...help me here with my memory, excuse me,
sometimes, not perfect, but close to it.
I believe Mr. Badlam said, in just general talking,
that when this thing was all about; he talked about it and he said:
when he sold the property to the Bridge and Port Authority,
that we're talking about.
He had had the Lawyer prepare
that chunk of land that he put the restaurant on, which was supposed to be
deeded over, and recorded in Canton, and for
some reason, the Attorneys never recorded that
in Canton. Do you remember that? I remember
it very well. My thought is,
just for our own point of information, Frank,
we should maybe look at what's recorded in Canton.
Because maybe this was already done. And, we just don't
have a record of it. Now, it seems to me, that if I build
a restaurant, and it was on other people's property,
but at the time, Ricky wasn't, he was on his own property.
The way I hear him talk? I don't know all the specifics on that. Well, that's
why I'm questioning it here, because I'd hate to see
...this...(interrupts)...Who owned it before him?
His Father. How long has it been there?
There's no...30 years, 40 years.
Nineteen...(interrupts)...But there was a house there. I know it was in 1966,
his Father had a business there. His Father lived in the house,
the house was tore down, the garage that his Father [ran] a body shop
in, was turned into a resaurant. Right. And, as he got
more into it, and built more on, and then he built more on. And then on the
back section there, he built that on. In the meantime,
he had got out of the business. He had moved away. He was
in South Carolina, and Dan Dupree called him up,
and asked him if he would be interested in selling that
5, or 6 acres behind his restaurant. Ricky says:
"I don't have a problem with it, make me an offer". So, the offer was made,
Ricky accepted it. But, prior to that, Ricky had
sold this business to another person. With the building already
all done. The way it is now? The way it is now. And,
that Lawyer, whoever that lawyer was, and I don't know who it was, was supposed
to carve that out,
okay? And record it Canton. Never was done.
Now, that's where we were left.
Here's the way I would see it, without spending some Authority money,
to get an abstract done on this property, from at least, from his Father forward,
you, I can't tell.
If...where the restaurant currently is located, with the addition...
would've been all on his property, before his Father sold it
to us? Was that part of that 5 acres? Yeah.
And, if that deed was done before they
deeded property to us...without looking at
it, the way I look at it, I'm...(unintelligible) we wouldn't own where his buildings
(unintelligible)...and I won't be able to tell you that without having an abstract done on the property.
Well, that's what we're trying to follow up here with this gentlemen here,
that owns it. Maybe he's got the abstract. But, isn't the
abstract, and all of that recorded in Canton? No.
What's recorded in Canton is the various deeds, and an abstact would put some deeds together.
In other words, you give me the Father's name...
That's Ricky. Ricky Badlam. That's who owned it.
Ricky or Richard...whatever his real name...(interrupts)...Probably Frederick.
It's Frederick. Yeah, but Fred's real name is Fred.
Not Frederick. With that, I'll go right in and check that. All right.
(laughter). His Dad had said his name is Fred. All right. Yet they called him Ricky.
What's the street address, and I'll work myself backwards and see. (laughter)
It's got to be the 1700 block of Ford Street. So, it's at
(cross talk - unintelligible)
The physical address is 1702 Ford Street.
1702? What I think, I've gotten
these someplace. What I think is, [it] depends where that acreage that we bought from Ricky Badlam is.
It runs right out the Wall Street, back five and a half acres.
Well, see, it depends on...who did the...without having the surveys...
what would've happened. Now, was that part of...
I'm just asking, I don't know. Was it like this? Going this way? I don't know.
Let me show what's happened here on the...without the surveys. I just want to be
sure that...(cross talk - unintelligible)...But, Frank what happened when the surveyors
went in and surveyed this. Here he is. Right through the belly. (?)
Okay, where was the 5 acres? Was it going this way? Right here. Oh, going THIS way. Yeah. But it was
behind this building, from this road back? Behind Ford Street residents, right here.
So, we would have to see, and we'd have to get our deed. I'd have to see
when the deed was done, into here, what errors
are in it, [if] there was a mistake made, it may have been a legitimate...(interrupts)...I think what happened was is,
when Ricky sold this, he thought that this lawyer recorded this.
No one knows if it's been recorded. So, our surveyor comes in,
to do exactly what you said, he pinpoints it, one here and one here,
the restaurant's on it. So, like you said, we want to
make this right with the restaurant people. Yeah, we want too make sure...(interrupts)...We'll give it to them for
a court claim for a dollar. If in fact we bought all this property,
and, that would; and this was already up, and the restaurant was already
built, then, they would've conveyed to you,
a portion of the restaurant, which was obviously in error. By whoever did the work
back then. Well, and I think Rick said there was an attorney involved, and they didn't
record it, in Canton. Now we're coming to the light...
(interrupts)...He did say that at the last meeting. That's right.
Does he have a copy of that deed? I don't know. I have no balance on that.
All right, is that something you could research for us? You can't research if it's not recorded.
Not recorded. Now, if Ricky...
I'm going to bet a dollar, that the attorney's no longer practicing law.
I think he might be retired. Here's the thing,
...(interrupts)...Legal? (laughter)
If the deed was done, okay?
From Ricky to the Authority.
And, it was in error. We should probably correct
the error. That's it. But I don't know...if there was this unrecorded deed, which I
...if he can get his hands on that, if the unrecorded
deed is part of the property they conveyed to us, now, the
difference there is, it's a recording state.
The guy that had that chunk, by not getting it
recorded, and that lawyer, by not recording it, we now own that property. Yeah.
Now wait...but...I agree with you.
And just what you said, we'll do. What kind of deed would give him that piece of property?
Well, if it was never intended to be transferred...(interrupts)....We don't want that property. We don't want anything
to do with the restaurant. We don't nothing to do with his little stairs out back. Give it to him.
But he's going to hire his own surveyor,
if this was not recorded. To say, our stakes,
and our points are right. Then, we can draw up a deed,
to give him the property. Right? You could.
Or ceded the property. What? You cede it to him; you give it to him.
Still thats...(interrupts)...Why do we have to charge a dollar? But, the thing is...
Wade, can somebody look up; I'm sure we've got a copy of...
our deed that we got to begin with.
I'd like to know if that was a survey description, or just...application.
Not the whole thing, not the whole port, because a lot of that came from someplace else, but, I'm talking about the chunk
we bought from Badlam. Seems like we should have something. Some place.
Associated with...(interrupts)...He should probably get that. Well, it probaby came from Chris Ackert (?), because he's arranged to keep all our deeds, but then
when he retired, I believe he gave all the paperwork back to us.
Well, we'll work on it. You see, Ricky was in...
from what I could gather, from when he was talking, he was in South Carolina, or North Carolina,
wherever he was; on the golf course. And, I'm not even sure he ever even came back with
a transaction, and then they went through. I think Ricky just told them to go ahead, and get what they needed,
and, he'd sign them, and cut them a check.
The price was right, Ricky was happy with the Price and that was the end of it.
But in the meantime, prior to that, Ricky sold the restaurant,
to "xyz" person. With that change.
The lawyer that drew it up, never recorded that.
Okay, so, that's where the issue is. We have the title,
to that land. That's what actually happened, because we
didn't record it. Now, the restaurant owner, if he says, "No,
them points are fine, that's fine with me, that's fine." So, he knows that now, because
he's got deeds. If he says, "No, my property line goes
beyond that", then he must have the recorded...(interrupts)...The unrecorded deed. Right.
So, it might end with that, so...Okay...That's why we're asking him to do this.
All right, I think I would do that before I'd do the other letter. We'll research our
files, we'll research our files on that, see what we can find.
We'll hold on the direct letter going out to the restaurant owner, but the other letter
going out to Ford Street...(interrupts)...It's just fine. Because you've got to make sure
that we're not...if the deed was never recorded,
it's inadvertent to however we bought it, we had it surveyed back then, our surveyor
wouldn't have known, because he would have searched the records, [and] there would've been no record of that deed being done.
And, now you've got an overlapping description...we're ahead, because
we record it. But, being a...you know, you don't want to
do something that's going to be injurious...to a party, which is unintended.
I don't think we intended to buy that.
Because it was already deeded out, because I'll bet you if you looked, and the restaurant was there, I know Dan (last name unintelligible) wasn't trying to buy part of the restaurant.
I mean we had a similar problem like this when I told you...well, not to bring this up because
we've got to get going, you know, with the pool. We had the same thing with the pool. The guy
put the pool on our property...we talked about for two and a half years,
and finally we got a resolution together and gave him the property.
That was the end of it. (unintelligible)...passed the voting on the pool. Nobody wanted to...(unintelligible).
Well, that was it. We'll see what we can find out.
(laughter)...We've had these things happen.
And, the only other issue I have for the Facilities Committee today,
and, you've each received a copy of the 9 respondents...
for the request for qualifications for the
Proctor Avenue redevelopment. That's the...the seeding and the (unintelligible)...
So, what I propose there,
is I'll give you these reading sheet, we'll reconvene the
Facilities Committee, and, in about 2 weeks, we'll go into executive with a proposal.
Come out the other side, and then, probably the top 2 or 3
prints here, and then we'll have a preposition. Okay.
That's fine with me. The other item, the D.E.C. thank you...
we can just hold, because that's also in the Board...
you'll find in the packet...we can open at the Board Meeting.
Is there any action needed on the letter going to all the property owners,
or are we just going to that. No. I just wanted...it's got to be one of those
"for your information" type of things.
...(unintelligible)...If for instance say that, I own a piece of property there, and I go up and I see where the stakes are,
and I disagree with them. So, I'm now going to have
to have a...my own surveyor. Right. He has to be licensed surveyor.
Oh yeah. A New York State License. It doesn't say that in here. New York License, and I think we should say
that in there. We should. How do you want to word that. Certified?
A New York State Licensed Surveyor. They have a process they go through.
Everybody's got a license number to survey. Yeah. I just don't want somebody
who's going to shoot and some things, and say, here's what it is, and then these people get into a temper over that.
New York State Licensed Surveyor. Gotcha.
And, that fence will be put in. And then from there well, we'll work on the
...the easements. See what we want to do there.
Maybe even leave it like it is. We'll make that change this afternoon, and then
we'll get this letter in there today. Okay, Mr. Chairman?
For me, sure.
That's it, we're done. And, that concludes the regular business.
I'll make a motion to adjourn. You second it, Don?
Second. [Those in] favor, signify by saying aye?
Aye. Okay. Thank you Mr. Chairman. You're welcome.