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This conversation will take place in english.
So I'm going to introduce our two great guests here in english:
We have, straight from Egypt, an internationally renowned author Nawal El Saadawi
who's going to conversate with Stefan Ingvarsson, translator and culture journalist. Welcome to the stage!
-- You have to watch out! -- Yes!
We can decide how close we want to be.
-- If you think that I'm asking silly questions you can rollaway. -- Yes exactly!
But I hope that we will not fall from there!
I'm going to check your back here
It's a great pleasure and honor to have you here in Umeå
You asked me to make an introduction
and the introduction I can give is that reading your last three novels
I really feel a description of an egyptian society
a society think the pressure cooker
and the pressure cooker is about
talent and about dreams
and you're describing a lot of people who have
opportunities but you're also describing a lot of people who lack
opportunity but they have a lot of talent and they have a lot of dreams
and your portraying
different tragedies the tragedy of having dreams and talent and not
the opportunity to follow them
mature also showing the tragedy
love those who have opportunities but lacked talent in
which is very very sad and
there are many such characters in your books
good look to the side and their the fee
you see if the woman looking at another woman the
seeing look I got this spot in the newspaper I got to be published
I got to pursue my dreams
but she's more talented than I am yes said
I and and the so my first question is
where does the feeling in
of halon being
kept down come from you well
in fact it's the first time I C Steve
be fine the second in fact that makes him this morning
and we set for 20 maybe one hour
one hour and we had a beautiful
Diane so I told him let's do it
it but because you cannot every
good things happened only once me solely
but anyway he brought up displaying
about I'm equally still
you she when while
and Palin we
are living in a wood that XP
all you and specially if you have a 10
why 1
people who are not talented people who
I BDN people who are not three baby
okie they become
president of State they become Minister ministers
they become top government dust that's why we had
decent very ugly word junket
because people who go to power are not be tainted
I'm not be creative people
they are the people who have not paid
by the compensate this lack of Palin
to have power and this is alert and Tony
that's why or do you hear and I think
everybody is talented we are all born create
but over 10 I'll
creativity is p by education system
and by religions and by political power
so that's why we strictly
so I was talking mystified about that
about this trendy help dnt
man human steady
just repeat just
right beans thank you Millwood
sweet you have the better government I
hope so but I I don't think so because I
I think on governments the same its
it's a problem with the whole capitalist patriarchy
religious just it had nothing to do with the people
it is the system that 38 key
talented people said we were talking I hope I E
he summarized what we did
week it we can start in you page methods cussion
but but you also we have to go back to when you were a child
you told me that in some ways you're sick you're still six years old
and I believe you but births
you had a very very personal experience
%uh being treated differently and your brother
can you tell us a bit about
udall and a hand the brother who was when you
all that me and
I was seven he was E we were in the same greed
and there was much better than in school
he was a batiste he was more stupid than me
I can't say it was more intelligent than p.m.
anyway I was but school
and they worked hard is cool because I lamb
to be in school to be away from home from the beach
and during holiday she play
and I skipped in in the house
to cook and hate my mother in Keeney house
but my Britain's playing in school and play
in holidays and he was awarded by
everything even they did the more money more food better
loses because they told me he's a boiling
so I said watch I am not convinced
what's the difference between a blimp
so they said that's what got set
so I said but must be just if he is not just
he's not got you know so I my first elected
Eli I wrote it too but
and they told him you got if you are not just
and if you treat my read them method just because he's a boy
and you created me a good I did create
said show if you are not just
I'm not ready to believe in you and they tell you something
we may see these still any group of people
men and women they say you know
each a dude almost I did the same
did you did you have this experience every bit later than you actually
yes you might see in when you were order
USA grew up religiously also that's the difference between Sweden
it legit yeah but but
this the them so the situation
this experience of being treated differently really shaped you but
you also there is one special characteristic from you
and that's your enormous energy
that that you can use but
so many more than just you use your energy
the like a battery for legions
been of people and and
and and my next question is where what work
what gives you the synergy what gives you the power
people you know yesterday AP
from cairo it was a horribly
I was ex post I spent fourteen
hours in the air and the airports
from Cairo to Copenhagen Copenhagen to Stockholm Stock on
to me and waiting to hours and
in full our so 8 p.m. here and I slept
in the morning I use its host and the name its teeth in
I no I'm
I'm just and giving you what happened
I'm many exhausted noticeable
so if some traditionally
critic came to me
it maybe I use my energy to take what is left to me
but he his question about Palin
about dreams about my childhood
I don't know GP like that
if I could charge you don't want to thank you the best thing I've done in
years
I'm said but but you're also charge by
very concrete than
of oppression around you
and and I'd like to maybe start
there because were we're moving towards your latest book
but I I'd like to because with which you've given me is
is an understanding of death pressure-cooker
that egyptians lately has been
and and and why a revolution was
not only necessary it it was like a natural force
in the pressure cooker like this and
said like I'd like you to describe
when when we have to these dreams and talents
what what is the system how to them
look like that keeps them now how would you
to to someone who does not really know everyday life in Egypt
how would you describe what keeps
young dreams and Fallon down in egypt today
will and I think you are following the revolution
Egypt and in the Arab world and also
in New York Occupy Wall Street
and in London I participated in your and
Occupy San ball I was trembling everywhere wherever
here there is a revolution Eagle you know but
I feel I feel happy
when there is a revolution because this was my 3
I was dreaming that evolution since I was a track
I think there's something wrong in around me in the and
is school in religion where
there is some sort to ingests
that cannot digest I cannot
and ollie the Chi ground we had the same PD
but we wear fish its
to be sad so then you should
a huge meaty dreamy of the revolution
so what did mention key in cairo
of course did where other you she's
Egypt during my
and they not speak it smaller ones but the big revolution that happen
in 25 January 820
11 dish was great
for me so this was the belushi
millions of people 30 mediums in the streets
still I was want them and they he
he screwed day and night and
it was like a dream and I think
me be we had a different system
but it began you know what happened
because Egypt spot the world
and Egypt spot what deeply the media East
usually AC needed to you know
we would name needy East because we have colonized
by at British so relative to and then we will
mideast like India India was flower
East and
now when I go to London I say I go to the midwest
he it
and when they go to the states and say I am going to the hot west
you know now you know but nobody Laughlin this immediate East
anyway each is the center the mideast
its almost the only state in the east
because the other team other sis a very small
like the Gulf countries the Gulf countries
are not countries it's a group of types
but Egypt he said all state
see the light seven thousand years i've seen
me she so Egypt is very important
to the colonial countries Egypt very important to the British
tonight well and I since no Egypt very
imported for the American israhi
European colonizers
and that's like the aborted jewish
with the Muslim brothers you see you see the company she
between capitalist Clooney
and be released powers with the most
fundamentalist three-ton the religious groups
usually AC lead in and george bush I'm please
and the twins the
American colonial powers
supported been led and the religious fundamentalist group
and the supporting now the Muslim brothers against the people
against costs and the European Union
and the you s got everything you need
is following deal s and now
the door complaints that we have
lucien they say it's a religious cool it immediately
who because it we made another lucien on the thirty
do to to dismiss the Muslim brothers
from Egypt because the government
Egypt's one-year it corruption
under religion under the bonnet it was corruption
but it is not and the religion but and that the Muslim Brotherhood
it was corruption under the name got
which is more Dean dangerous
so do schooling and bullets the you
government European countries governments
israeli government only Dez supported the Muslim brothers
Egypt in the Gulf countries in Cuttack
abort a la revolution because billion
any is to have its people to be independent
they don't want people to be independent
they don't want Egypt to be independent they don't women
to be independent because they furnish
when people are divided by religion when people week
so that's what happened before
know you've told us why the revolution to some extent was
board you can use your voice anything now you've told us why the revolution
was aborted white didn't
go the way you wanted to let if we go back to detective square
if we go back to the days when you you were there
what kinda because this book is very much about this time period
and you're also saying that this book is
is not really complete workup fiction
yet and of course it isn't because this is this
land somewhere between a repre- tars and a novel
effect state has it includes elements that are
like a repre- time she and it includes of course to
frame over above of a fiction story
yeah but it also gives the very clear images
of why
some people kept the spirit of the loop religion
people kept the spirit of the revolution alive
and others went back from
the spirit of the revolution can you tell us a little bit about
how how it actually look there when you were there
I mean I i've been before you came here I was trying to imagine your
you going on the motorcycle and
being your age years and you told me you could go
on the motorcycle during the revolution but you couldn't call now
exact and that's the difference and death so in some way you explain to me
what the revolution is
it work it's what makes no I love about we go on the MacBook to Michael
it it makes you sleep in a tent yeah
some yet please give us some images from this
if the review sheet I don't know whether you live attribution
but I cannot describe pretty you need to leave
everything's millions of people
speaking the same which you
my problem my people all my life
would didn't see something so simply
about just a multiplicity among dignity
about freedom common sense
usually a Capt is common sense
its genius people think that the writers I G
I don't believe me its Commons is going back to the basic
knowledge a few men each Richard also said that creativity
is the ability to sleep paradoxes and that
requires the addy to see paradoxes you've said
yes but that requires some thought
that requires some thought some insulation ***
*** *** AMC that
when you leave you she
it's not met very much and ThinkGeek
it's in the 10 fwy you would really
you know I am medical doctor and people saint is
indeed to despite feed
and the mind bet then the
you know men better because the more he was there mine
women are more emotion I don't believe in that
because we cannot really think Wed
without emotion we cannot great
to Ed without emotion we cannot make any pollution
without any more she so that's very important to bring the
she and link to the mind so when you leavin
belushi there is some new
energy come from you from your mind and body
and speed and immunity because the
are not separated I am sitting here in front to you
in this chair with my body mind spirit everything
with my childhood my all each everything gets here
in this chair nothing anywhere
still with you believe that you should you become a child to be
you have disunity between your body mind and spirit
you behave like a Cheney show you be able to make a genius person
because EU Kishi in fact
split between or mine
body and state when I graduated from the Medical College
I was split a look to the human being
as abut dissipated from
spirit and mind and the body is divided to
lands and kidney and heart and and
all that so we specialise so we lose
we use all emotion because
alert motion come from defeating all that I am
you can be and that's why I don't like the medical profession
because they don't treat people as human beings
so mushi if you come back to the Mater site kid
of course I am over ET Now
and I that never I used when I was a check to be on the motorcycle
not not Ian young each
need each but
it during the revolution there was an can few
are no taxes I think and they have to go home because it was too cold it was in
January and February
23 min and they cannot sleep
on the ground all the night so I pulled the young people
I want to Google because and all you like and they cannot survive
so how to go home new taxi nothin
so when they and many he brought his motorcycle it
and he told me I think you'll I was a bit has been
they said they may die on this model like it
and in the you know the streets in Cairo is poopie
it's not like here so cell
but I'm lose obliged i'd have to die
on the motorcycle of to die impact on the square ship
so I would on the not n
energy a new energy
p.m. from the revolution new
energy CK UK energy not only many
and take physically any so a sec
and the motorcyclist as they come movement and
and they said why and they went well cyl that
a humiliating this as an example
have the revolution can change any she
and held the real vichy can change it
but some people stay in the change and some people go back
yes fly this is the mechanism
well aborting their she because people can add Google
on relaunching take taped people
in Egypt are Bay that review sheet
and also the military com said
who replaced Mubarak after hywell
was out the PT found that it's
beyond keep men and women
and auction and eat in this book
the tight the title in Arabic is different
and institutions called it will cost given a
What is the title in Arabic the painting and every each scored
it is blood I she
land all time Inc each player
in the streets in in that the 16 crew you put more
more in the mall I I used to go to the mall
to see my friends who died and we don't know where these
they disappeared so as a medical doctor
a used my authority it went the mall
I was looking at the body and the dead bodies
to see my friends the young people who went with me last
lot yesterday the win with me
and then the are in the morn back and the doctors
take warrant with my doc would make the leap the doctor not my
age but Mike leaves
who will ninety see reports
about the that people would P
because the forty the military authority that people to move by Rick albright the
doctors
to write faults reports and to see that *** young people
died because of God accident
not by bullets and not by torture
so I for it a player in but they didn't
any authority except the rate so I wrote about that
a hoot about that and that's the responsibility rates
and a didn't rate it in fiction in fact
you in this book inflame very scientific medical reports
from the mall because keep Nick 16
about it people may not be easy
may not be I want it to be concrete
facts about what was happening
and dishes crying this is Jimmy
cream debt you eat
G two day each nobody was
punished food any the kinks
d2d the meat
peak diets with Obama and other people
peak and the box T a high
still Fluttershy even some people
just yesterday in much to you some people would say
wide the butter creme the election to the presidency
can you imagine after thirty years of corruption
and heaney and dictatorship
but because he was clean operating with the United States
and with the Muslim brothers they want to bring him back
chill held the the the revolution was aborted
and now young people thanked someone demory
in prisons some damn lost whole
summer the have depression
7 the yen men and women they come to my to me
as a psychiatrist and the are something
of depression
and this is history in fact when you
3d about the French Revolution
what the CDC every if you have a revolution
you minute Ballard we morty I'm sure
at of course this is history
we have to stand me people have to strain peace committees
300 dpi and religions
because what peeps deputies
and 3ft strum its religion
the youth got to justify
injustices that's like the need got
that's why in the postmodern each
in the 21st century we have relied on religions
this cannot happen
but because they need got
the books also land somewhere as we said
somewhere in between propose and fiction and
I understand it's because you felt this necessity to tell
the story now and to use as you said
fact yes not to be questioned yes
but your real motivation in
life has always been fiction writing you have been the surgeon
you have been a psychiatrist you have also worked politically
you've worked in the streets politically and then I'm a higher level
politically in different way but one thing that you
always come back to is fiction writing
why
that's a big boogey well I
and simply because
a few at I
feed ledger might only only Pledger
in life comes from writing fiction
it the pleasure from writing fiction writing
good novels would even good art can
something creative to me
pledging is molded ET I forget
eating when a secret I can see people two days
and they forget eating anti-myc my legs
absolutely like that and I had banking I P
so physically I could go on but my mind is
still it but
the pay keep me going going
that's my it's more than food I forget
it's more than six maybe you like you let the bed
but this is true because some people think that
6 is the biggest later in life it's not too
it several months between Real Madrid
PTT the ability to create
the BT to to head the speedy
that you mind your spirit and body and when
and the and that rating
what you would dream up since you look at change
this is the on pledges in my life and that's what
keeping me writing novels in fact most to
my books are not but some
actor and fictional do you think that fiction is an effective way
influencing people's political mind
yes yes when you read that would not be
you know better you know much make about truth
then many scientific work
when you're at when
so when went to the displeasure when did you discover displeasure
its because if you go back to the vial age
67 the the frustrated girl who was good in school wanted to leave
leave her house when
when did fiction open itself to you
as a pleasure it when it was a train
yes its
almost like that email she take tried
it it's not creativity is not on the writing
in fact I love dancing my dream was to be and then search in fact the
assured when he was a child attention dancing
I wanted to do that and
the images in your last novel yes year in
wanted to be again said I wanted to be music
but my parents live not teach
so my father could not the by me
p.m. so I couldn't text shield when
I started knowing ethnic started writing
so whenever they had any truly e2
in my any to express myself I use it
so I used writing because this is was the only thing available
to me the pen and paper that's it
so I attacked pretty but then
I discovered that it's very very dangerous to ride
it's very dangerous to
even to play and peace and music
even to duds some dances would put in prison
each it some musicians some plates
we put in prison because creativity is dangerous
it opened the mine
and you government the need people to be ignorant
because it's very easy to dominate
and control ignorant people that's why DP
writers the detritus in prison
because they don't want to know don't want people to normal
the truth they don't want that
still each string even but there is also a lot of
NV in your books there is a lot of envy of people
who have lost this spirit and dream
moved those who have it and so the although the head before
yet and and and it's very hurtful
I mean this is when the this is one that the strong
themes that your literature does tooth
sadness *** people who've lost their dreams
lost their creativity it and you
and and on your way
two words who you are today from from this girl
how was your creativity
and your dreams how were they they treated because
eventually you became the person who we are today
but who helped you on the way the lil
Aitken me that many people in my life
number one my grandmother who'll
was a isn't illiterate woman
but she gave me the first lesson in philosophy
and East Lawn and in religion about justice
she said God is just justice and me know
in by ally brain and dishes many
calming 3 in the leech minimal I'll admit
lot very simply so that's my religion when people say you are and
issues I think the oh my religion
is justice so if you call this if he is
okay the but my you just so that
a good from my grandmother she never read the Koran
but she are intelligence shouldn't admit
if there is got he must be just then my mother
my mother played a beet growers Emie
development in
because cheating Aki but that creativity is key
by school and by TDG and my mother
played at all in this
in school yet because they would MIDI in eject
ahead a little energy and the one cheating two-seat
and not mu so a movie so I was punished
and when the punishment they told me you we go to any
you would be burned and got away
I was seven years I would cry to my mother
and drink he was afraid
sure I told her I'm going to be playing she said where
1800 in fire sit wit is the fire
and then when I told her about the school she told me there is no fun
you see so that's the word mother
no fire and you should say
to have children there is no fire
anyway cell
I was relieved of the few fun
den the second part in Schoharie
the teacher ethnic us
to write composition a story
from the email gene each to I
here and used might Meggie
and a route study called a try meanwhile like try
courtside it's about me but I
disguise myself and that another name
so the teacher two contests this story
and he gave me do you
and she said this girl is are
this there has a baby ab mein
city streets is bad you should be and
he through to report
to my parents my mother had
my story but chance
she told me this is be used for story
and this teacher is stupid
so my mother relieve me from the few
a from the stupidity of school
and teaches and I started to confidence
creativity is very much really T
the confidence in the same
if you don't have confidence in the shade you cannot create
euros you also had to keep because the important ones that those who give you
confidence in you also had the teacher
who told Chu you that you will do something great
yes admit after my mother
I said my grandmother my mother and to my father
somehow played a role also supported me
and then a teacher a teacher in
in secondary school among
only teach who ET she was the one to take me know where you have a talent
bad a if we were discussing this morning
that this teacher aftershock doing
after she married she lost and the CVT
three men each should sheesh
after that she started to be his me
is migrating so that when already eat any
and don't you you have attended
because too many each and oppression
and the society she started to be against me
so and this happening this was repeated several
10 in my life that people to encourage you
act when fees they stop their
courage phoenicians their revolution
finishes aborted and the stuff to come
against you Ange but you have to pick
to keep on my situation
I was keeping on why I don't know
why I for me I dunno because that's a question I think everyone is asking
I mean someone told me one an important
important for me with the someone once told miss the fun life
has only one goal never to be better
the and and and with all the struggles that you're describing in all the
betrayed the husband
who failed you you could have ended up the better
a I agree of course there are a lot of pain in my life
I had to region tortured I lived in exile
most my life I was like to the whole city husband
I did most replacements just to continue writing
you know and them facing problems now everywhere
so there is a lot of P but you have to pay the price
Katie that very high price
you cannot be freed state to be happily married
money and to be the president the state and be creative
this cannot happen in
you have to pay the price pt
thank you know about filled up
thank you
hey the you like me
you are good now while we
sign her book outside here
the me
thank you very much her lovely connotation we have to give
from you therapy accepting gifts from you
not allowed without baseball
live in a small skinny wanna p.m. clearly cannot share
I hadn't come fall or don't the longer the mall
at the Buddh me a two-course sports dupes of piety
or ship them 150 billion yen also be
seen up to you to boorda something slain still man stay
thanks defense though come on up in a steel in composite be sus- morning on
ok in his book bins as a teen for shelling or drones for like
and the Stardust XO make it back to M at I'm not some Paul Mackel not a lot