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LANINGHAM: Scott Laningham in the IBM Future of Social Lounge
at South by Southwest Interactive 2012.
I'm here now with Lisa Bodell.
Hi, Lisa.
BODELL: Hi.
Thanks for having me.
LANINGHAM: Lisa is the author of the new book that's about to come out, right, called...
BODELL: New book.
LANINGHAM: ...Kill the Company, End the Status Quo, Start an Innovation Revolution.
BODELL: That's right.
LANINGHAM: That's a fully packed title.
BODELL: It is a fully packed title.
We had to fight for it and I'm really proud that we got it.
LANINGHAM: They wanted it to be shorter?
BODELL: They wanted it to be a little bit blander.
And you know, it's, over the last year we realized there's this kind
of zeitgeist that's happening, where people really are tired at work.
They're tired.
Everything's overwhelming and they're ready to have some kind
of revolution but in a productive way.
And so Kill the Company is really what a lot of people want to do to make it better not worse.
And so we said, let's do it.
LANINGHAM: And you've got to stand out, right?
BODELL: And you've got to stand out.
LANINGHAM: So you tell them what you're going to tell them,
then you tell them what you tell them in the title.
Now, you're going to speak about the book tomorrow?
BODELL: Yes.
Tomorrow we've got a panel at 12:30.
We're going to speak for 20 minutes about the book and what it's about, the key themes
and hopefully get people get inspired and motivated around it.
LANINGHAM: So let's start to dig into that a little bit.
The reason we want to kill the company, there are a lot of reasons people have.
And clearly at a conference like this, we were talking about that before we started,
that there's already been a lot of conversations about why we're in a time of change.
Don Tapscott talking about this burning platform syndrome.
Give us your take on it.
BODELL: So the whole premise on Kill the Company is that the number one enemy
for most companies is themselves.
So we created two what I call C words, it's complacency and complexity.
We're so focused on the inside right now and the very structures we're putting in place
to be more innovative are the very things that are putting a chokehold on it.
So the more processes we create, the more handcuffs we're putting on ourselves.
LANINGHAM: Too much structure.
BODELL: Way too much.
The whole idea is we've traded the telescope for the microscope.
And so if you ask people what they do all day, it's meetings and e-mails.
It's low-value tasks.
LANINGHAM: I'm with you on that one.
BODELL: Right?
Meetings and e-mails.
So people are going to aspire to greatness and innovate;
you can't do it through meetings and e-mails.
And so the big takeaway in Kill the Company is if you don't focus
on your weaknesses, someone else will.
And the first start that you need to do
to be innovative is maybe not starting with innovation itself.
It's clearing away things.
It's killing rules, it's killing the company.
LANINGHAM: Do you think we're overplanning?
I mean, is that part of it?
BODELL: Is that a rhetorical question?
LANINGHAM: I mean, we're just thinking so hard about where we want to go that we're...
BODELL: Well, interesting.
LANINGHAM: What would Tapscott say?
You don't predict the future.
BODELL: You create it.
LANINGHAM: Right, right.
You discover it.
BODELL: Yes, the first way to predict the future is to create it.
LANINGHAM: You create it, whatever.
BODELL: Well, people think the future is like this fixed point and that there's only one way
to get there, and actually it's a winding road.
Right? And so we've got to be able to experiment to get there,
and the problem is we've got handcuffs in companies to do it.
So do we have too many processes?
The answer is yes.
And here's the hypocrisy that we are going to talk about tomorrow,
which is we tell people to go and innovate, right?
We tell them to go and innovate, but then it's like giving people a box of crayons
and telling them only to color within the lines.
They already know the picture they want;
it's just kind of this momentum we're putting people through that results in nothing.
So the idea is what we want to do is get rid of all those processes
and just give people more guardrails to operate.
LANINGHAM: Okay.
Now, what do you say to executives that say, but we've got multi-billion dollar contracts
and this and that and the other, how can we innovate
if we don't completely articulate where we're going?
How are we going to know if we don't fail?
BODELL: Well, completely agree.
LANINGHAM: Or if we fail.
BODELL: I'm not saying you have to fail; I'm not saying you have to get rid of all processes.
But the problem is it's too much.
It's taken away all levels of risk.
It's having people spend more time on these less value added tasks and things that do add value.
We're more concerned about the reports than the ideas.
And so, the idea is how can you kill the things that don't matter
so you can make space for the things that do.
So we have to start there first, not with brainstorms.
LANINGHAM: And how do we start scrubbing that stuff out of our lives?
Because I don't know about you, but it's like...
BODELL: It's hard.
LANINGHAM: Just responding to everybody else's escalating needs.
You know, I have this task, but I need to talk to these three people in order to get it done.
And then you do the pyramid outward from that and that's where we are.
BODELL: A false sense of urgency.
LANINGHAM: So how do we...what kinds of things can we do to start turning the corner on that?
BODELL: Well, a couple things and I'll talk about this tomorrow.
There's a few case studies we did around, the phrase I like to use is if you want
to get people to approach change differently we've got to change our approach.
So one is, you've got to give people the tools that are kind of on demand to get rid of things
and really reverse their assumptions.
We've got to break this mold.
And the other thing is we have to approach change with a little c not a big C. The things
that annoy us every day, the meetings, the e-mails,
that's what's holding us back, not big programs.
So if we can show how to change behavior in little ways like in our meetings and our e-mails
and empowering people differently, that's what's going to start to create change,
not a big change program but little things every day.
And we've got about two or three dozen of those that we give people ways to do that.
LANINGHAM: And it's more than just time management
or traditional manage your schedule stuff.
BODELL: Let me give you an example.
Let me give you an example.
So the tools are kind of broken down into two things: one,
break down the barriers and then build up the business.
The barrier ones are what really get people running around the room with their lighters
on fire, especially the leaders, because they're too stressed out
and they need things to be simplified.
For example, one of the tools is called, kill a stupid rule.
And people love it, they love it.
We give them 15 minutes to do it.
And the teams always say, we always need more time, and so we ask them this:
if you could kill a few rules in the organization,
how many people would want to do it?
Everyone raises their hand.
What rules would they be?
And the list goes on.
And what they realize is they're not rules; they're assumptions,
they're everyday annoyances, they're processes, they're reports.
So, you start to create the way to get rid of those and suddenly life gets easier.
I've got time to come up with ideas.
LANINGHAM: Yes.
Can we apply this to homeowners associations?
BODELL: You can.
LANINGHAM: You know, because their rules, sometimes...you know, so many of us live
in these neighborhoods with, there's this phenomena of homeowners associations
and all these covenants and things you have to do.
And sometimes I feel like you can so over direct
that people won't do the natural things they would have done
to make the neighborhood beautiful because their individuality is squashed while they feel
parented too much.
Same situation, right?
BODELL: Yes, people don't want a 12-step program.
They want, you know, the thing I talk about is innovation is about potential whether it's
for your business or for yourself personally.
And the same tools we talk about in the book for frankly
for business, you can apply to your life.
I can think of 15 rules I'd love to kill or assumptions I have I'd like to reverse
in my personal life to make my day easier with my kids, with my husband, with whatever, school.
LANINGHAM: Why do we have so much obsession with parenting in our world?
BODELL: Why do we have so much obsession with parenting?
LANINGHAM: With control, I mean.
BODELL: I was going to say...
LANINGHAM: You know, I'm using that word that way.
Why?
BODELL: Well, I think it's...
LANINGHAM: Because it's complex?
BODELL: Because of complexity.
I think the problem is because as things become more complex we feel more out of control
and we get more adverse to change.
And our natural reaction to change as human beings is to resist.
And so, in a state where we're in a panic we resist,
or in a state where we feel out of control, we resist.
And so we have to start to get more control so we can actually start
to change, otherwise change won't stick.
I know that's how I feel whenever I'm overwhelmed, I just want to stop.
I don't want to do more.
People don't want to do any more.
LANINGHAM: Who's on the panel with you tomorrow?
BODELL: Well, it's just me.
LANINGHAM: Just you, okay.
I thought you said it was a panel.
BODELL: Yes, about twenty minutes.
LANINGHAM: It's not a panel.
In the little South by Southwest app it has one head instead of three or four.
BODELL: Yes, that's right.
LANINGHAM: I finally figured out that's what that means.
BODELL: Just my head, that's right.
Just me. For 20 minutes we're going to take through them some tools
so they can see what we're talking about.
LANINGHAM: And the book comes out when?
BODELL: May 15th on Amazon, Kill the Company, and out in bookstores everywhere.
LANINGHAM: Thank you for stopping by.
BODELL: Hey, thanks.
Really inspiring.
Thank you.
LANINGHAM: Really a pleasure.
Again, Lisa Bodell at South by Southwest about her new book, Kill the Company,
End the Status Quo, Start an Innovation Revolution.
I'm Scott Laningham at South by Southwest 2012.
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