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>> WHEN DOES GRANDMAMA ARRIVE?
>> I'M SO LOOKING FORWARD TO
SEEING YOUR MOTHER AGAIN.
WHEN I'M WITH HER, I'M REMINDED
OF THE VIRTUES OF THE ENGLISH.
>> BUT ISN'T SHE AMERICAN?
>> EXACTLY.
>> WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT
"DOWNTON ABBEY" AS
ENTERTAINMENT, BUT THERE ARE
SOME LIFE LESSONS FOR US TODAY.
WE'LL HEAR ABOUT SOME OF THEM
NEXT ON "GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES."
>> THIS IS
"GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES," WITH
PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING
COMMENTATOR JOHN BERSIA.
>> WELCOME TO
"GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES."
AMERICA HAS ENDURED A SERIES OF
BRITISH INVASIONS FROM THE
WAR OF 1812 TO THE BEATLES IN
THE 1960s.
AND FOR THE LAST THREE TV
SEASONS, THE CHARACTERS OF A
FICTIONAL POST-EDWARDIAN
YORKSHIRE COUNTRY ESTATE.
>> WELCOME TO DOWNTON.
>> THE NEWS HAS BEEN FOLLOWING
THE ECONOMIC UNREST IN ENGLAND,
THE QUEEN'S DIAMOND JUBILEE,
EVEN THE BIRTH OF A FUTURE KING.
AND IN ADDITION, SEVERAL MILLION
PBS VIEWERS HAVE BEEN IMMERSED
IN THE LIVES, LOVES, AND DRAMA
OF THE CRAWLEY FAMILY AND THEIR
SERVANTS THROUGH THE EARLY YEARS
OF THE 20th CENTURY.
OUR GUEST TODAY HAS A UNIQUE
VIEW OF THIS TV HIT.
JESSICA FELLOWES IS THE NIECE OF
THE SERIES CREATOR,
JULIAN FELLOWES, AND THE AUTHOR
OF TWO BOOKS CHRONICLING THE
PRODUCTION --
"THE WORLD OF DOWNTON ABBEY,"
AND "THE CHRONICLES OF
DOWNTON ABBEY."
WE MIGHT EVEN GET A GLIMPSE OF
THE UPCOMING FOURTH SEASON
AIRING IN THE UNITED STATES
STARTING ON JANUARY 5th.
HELLO, JESSICA.
WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
VERY NICE TO BE HERE.
>> WELL, IT'S GOOD TO FIND OUT
THAT THERE IS A BOOK ABOUT
"DOWNTON ABBEY" -- IN FACT, TWO
BOOKS.
>> TWO BOOKS.
>> TELL US HOW THE TWO BOOKS
CAME TO BE AND WHAT THE
CONNECTION IS TO THE SHOW.
>> WELL, MY UNCLE IS
JULIAN FELLOWES, THE CREATOR OF
"DOWNTON ABBEY," AND WE HAD THE
FIRST SEASON AIRED AND IT WAS A
BIG HIT, AND I ENJOYED IT ALONG
WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
AND THEN MY AGENT DISCOVERED
THAT THERE WAS A BOOK IN THE
WORKS, BUT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR
A WRITER.
I'D ALREADY WORKED AS A WRITER
AND AS A JOURNALIST FOR ABOUT
15 YEARS, AND SO I WENT IN TO
MEET THE PUBLISHERS AND I LIKED
VERY MUCH WHAT THEY WANTED TO
DO.
THEY LIKED THE KIND OF WORK THAT
I'D DONE BEFORE, WHICH I WAS A
DEPUTY EDITOR OF A MAGAZINE
CALLED COUNTRY LIFE, SO I WAS
FAMILIAR WITH THE BIG HOUSES.
AND OBVIOUSLY, WITH JULIAN, I
HAD THE INSIDE ACCESS THAT NO
ONE ELSE COULD GET.
AND I PARTICULARLY LIKED THE
FACT THAT THEY WANTED TO LOOK AT
NOT JUST THE SHOW ITSELF AND THE
CHARACTERS AND ALSO THE WORKINGS
AND HOW IT WAS MADE AND PUT
TOGETHER, BUT LOOKING AT THE
SOCIAL HISTORY OF THE PERIOD, SO
IT REALLY IS PUTTING THE WHOLE
THING INTO CONTEXT.
AND THAT WAS WHAT REALLY
APPEALED TO ME.
THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT JULIAN
AND I HAVE ALWAYS SHARED
TOGETHER -- AN INTEREST IN THAT
PERIOD.
MY GRANDFATHER, JULIAN'S
FATHER, WAS BORN IN 1912, SO HE
WAS BORN INTO THAT PERIOD, AND
SO I USED TO ASK JULIAN A LOT.
WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER, HE WAS THE
ONE WHO WOULD GO OFF SORT OF
SCURRYING AROUND PEOPLE'S ATTICS
AND FINDING OUT FAMILY HISTORY
AND CREATING AN ARCHIVE OF THE
FAMILY.
AND SO, I USED TO LOVE TO TALK
TO HIM ABOUT THAT AND HEAR ALL
THE STORIES.
SO, I RECOGNIZED A LOT OF IT IN
"DOWNTON ABBEY."
>> SO, THERE ACTUALLY WAS A BOOK
THAT SORT OF PLANTED THE SEED
THAT HELPED INSPIRE THE SERIES?
>> WELL, YEAH.
I MEAN, THE SHOW CAME ABOUT
BECAUSE JULIAN WENT AND HAD
DINNER WITH A PRODUCER,
GARETH NEAME, WHO IS NOW THE
PRODUCER OF THE SHOW.
GARETH IS, ANYWAY, A VERY
SUCCESSFUL TV PRODUCER, AND THEY
WERE TRYING TO GET ANOTHER
PROJECT OFF THE GROUND AND IT
WASN'T REALLY WORKING, SO THEY
WERE JUST CHATTING.
AND GARETH SAID, "I THINK YOU
SHOULD REALLY GO BACK TO YOUR
'GOSFORD PARK' TERRITORY."
AND "GOSFORD PARK" WAS THE FILM
THAT JULIAN WROTE FOR
ROBERT ALTMAN.
AND IT WON HIM AN OSCAR AND IT
CATAPULTED HIM INTO A WHOLE
OTHER LEVEL OF SUCCESS AND, YOU
KNOW.
SO, GARETH HAD SAID, "YOU KNOW,
I REALLY CAN SEE THIS GO FOR A
BOOK -- A TELEVISION SHOW SET IN
A BIG COUNTRY HOUSE THAT FOLLOWS
THE LIVES ABOVE STAIRS AND
BELOW," YOU KNOW.
AND JULIAN SAID, "WELL, I THINK
THAT SOUNDS GREAT, BUT I'VE
ALREADY GOT SO MUCH FROM GOING
INTO THAT TERRITORY THAT TO DO
IT TWICE IS LIKE ASKING
LIGHTNING TO STRIKE IN THE SAME
PLACE AGAIN."
YOU KNOW, IT'S...SO, NO.
SO, HE WENT HOME, BUT HE
HAPPENED TO BE READING A BOOK
CALLED "TO MARRY AN ENGLISH
LORD," WHICH IS ALL ABOUT THE
AMERICAN BUCCANEERS -- THE WOMEN
WHO WENT OVER TO BRITAIN IN THE
1890s ONWARDS AND MARRIED INTO
THE ARISTOCRACY, AND THE
ARISTOCRACY WERE VERY HAPPY TO
WELCOME THEM.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE VERY MUCH MONEY
AT THE TIME.
THEY HAD AN AGRICULTURAL
DEPRESSION.
THEY ALSO HAD THE RATHER JOLLY
PRINCE OF WALES, LATER
KING EDWARD VII, WHO VERY MUCH
ENJOYED THE COMPANY OF AMERICAN
WOMEN.
I THINK THEY ENJOYED THIS SORT
OF JOIE DE VIVRE.
YOU KNOW, THEY BROUGHT SOMETHING
ELSE TO THE TABLE, AND THEY
LIKED THAT.
SO, JULIAN WAS THINKING ABOUT
THAT.
HE WAS READING, IN PARTICULAR,
HE WAS READING ABOUT A WOMAN
CALLED MARY LEITER, WHO WAS A
VERY SUCCESSFUL BUCCANEER IN THE
SENSE THAT SHE CAME OVER AND
MARRIED GEORGE CURZON, AND SHE
DIED ONE OF THE HIGHEST-RANKING
AMERICANS THAT HAD EVER LIVED AS
VICEROY OF INDIA.
WHAT JULIAN GOT INTERESTED IN
WAS WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM MUCH
LATER.
WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU WERE THAT
WOMAN WHO CAME OVER?
YOU LEFT BEHIND ALL OF YOUR
SOCIETY, ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS.
YOU'D SUNK ALL YOUR MONEY INTO
SOMEONE ELSE'S ESTATE, AND YOU
FIND YOURSELF IN A FREEZING-COLD
HOUSE IN YORKSHIRE 20 YEARS
LATER.
AND SO, THAT WAS CORA, THE
AMERICAN CHARACTER IN THE BOOK,
OR THE BEGINNING OF THE WHOLE
SHOW.
>> DON'T WORRY ABOUT ME.
I'M AN AMERICAN.
HAVE GUN, WILL TRAVEL.
>> TELL US ABOUT THE SETTING OF
THE FIRST SEASON, WHERE WE'RE IN
A PERIOD OF TECHNOLOGICAL
CHANGE, SOCIAL CHANGE, AND
SOON --
>> YEAH, EVEN MORE THAN THAT.
>> ...EVEN MORE THAN THAT.
>> YEAH, WELL, I MEAN, JULIAN
AND GARETH WERE VERY SET THAT
THEY WANTED IT TO BE A PERIOD
DRAMA BUT WITH ELEMENTS THAT A
MODERN AUDIENCE COULD REALLY
IDENTIFY AND RELATE TO.
THEY OPENED IT IN 1912 WITH THE
SINKING OF THE TITANIC, CHIEFLY
BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT THAT WAS
A GOOD REFERENCE POINT IN
EVERYONE'S MINDS.
SO, WHEN YOU HEAR "SINKING OF
THE TITANIC," YOU IMMEDIATELY
KNOW WHAT CLOTHES EVERYONE WAS
WEARING, YOU SORT OF KNOW WHAT
SOCIETY WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW THERE
WERE BIG ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE
STEERAGE PASSENGERS NOT BEING
LET OFF THE BOAT AS QUICKLY AS
THE FIRST-CLASS PASSENGERS AND
ALL THAT, SO YOU'VE GOT THAT
CLASS BATTLE AND, YOU KNOW, THE
HISTORY ALL IN ONE SHOT.
BUT THEN YOU'VE ALSO GOT TRAINS,
YOU'VE GOT TELEPHONES COMING IN,
YOU'VE GOT ELECTRICITY COMING
IN, YOU'VE GOT WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE,
YOU'VE GOT CLASS CHANGE.
THE GOVERNMENT ARE BEGINNING TO
TALK ABOUT WELFARE BENEFITS AND,
YOU KNOW, SO ALL THESE SOCIAL
SHIFTS ARE STARTING TO HAPPEN.
AND THE FIRST WORLD WAR REALLY
ESCALATED THEM.
SO, BETWEEN 1912 AND 1920, IT
WAS AS IF 100 YEARS HAD PASSED,
AND, YOU KNOW, THE FEELING OF
CHANGE WAS ABSOLUTELY
PHENOMENAL.
AND WE SEE THAT REALLY REFLECTED
IN THE CHARACTERS, YOU KNOW,
FROM THE DOWAGER WHO FINDS IT
VERY HARD TO COME TO TERMS WITH,
AND CARSON FINDS IT VERY
DIFFICULT TO COME TO TERMS WITH,
TO THOSE WHO ARE MORE WILLING TO
EMBRACE IT AND MOVE WITH IT.
WE RELATE TO IT BECAUSE I THINK
WE'VE SEEN THIS HUGE AMOUNT OF
CHANGE, TOO, IN THE LAST
10 YEARS, PARTICULARLY
TECHNOLOGICAL, BUT THEN THAT HAS
HAD SUCH WIDE -- YOU KNOW, MUCH
WIDER EFFECTS ON ALL OF OUR
SOCIAL LIVES, AS WELL.
SO, EVEN JUST GOING BACK TO
10 YEARS AGO, TRY TO REMEMBER
LIFE PRE GOOGLE, TWITTER,
FACEBOOK, MOBILE PHONES, VIDEO
NEWS ONLINE, BOTOX, GAY
MARRIAGE -- YOU KNOW, ALL THESE
THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED THE
FRAMEWORK OF HOW WE LIVE, AND I
THINK LIKE 100 YEARS AGO, IT CAN
BE VERY EXCITING, BUT IT CAN
ALSO BE QUITE OVERWHELMING.
ARE YOU MAKING THE RIGHT
DECISIONS, ARE YOU TAKING PROPER
ADVANTAGE?
>> WHAT DO YOU FEEL WERE THE
MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES OF THAT
TIME?
YOU THINK THAT THEY'RE
ACCURATELY REFLECTED IN THE
SERIES, AND MAYBE YOU COULD
FRAME THIS BY TALKING ABOUT THE
CONCEPT OF SERVICE?
>> THE PART ABOUT SERVICE AT
THAT TIME WAS THAT BEFORE THE
FIRST WORLD WAR, SERVICE WAS A
VERY RESPECTABLE POSITION AND
CAREER TO GO INTO, AND
PARTICULARLY IN A RURAL AREA
LIKE YORKSHIRE WHERE
"DOWNTON ABBEY" IS SET.
YOUR OPTIONS, IF YOU WERE
WORKING CLASS, WERE PRETTY FEW.
YOU WENT AND WORKED IN FARMING
OR YOU WENT AND WORKED IN
SERVICE, YOU KNOW.
AND YOU MIGHT, IF YOU WERE
INCREDIBLY BRAVE, LEAVE AND GO
INTO THE CITY, BUT THAT WAS, YOU
KNOW -- ONLY TINY PORTIONS OF
PEOPLE DID THAT.
AND GOING INTO SERVICE WAS, YOU
KNOW, IN ONE WAY, IT WAS QUITE
DIFFICULT, BUT UNLIKE FARMING,
IT WAS MORE RELIABLE.
YOU WERE INDOORS, YOU GOT THREE
MEALS A DAY, YOU HAD A ROOF OVER
YOUR HEAD, AND THERE WAS A SENSE
THAT YOU COULD WORK TOWARDS A
PROMOTION, AS WELL, AND WHEN YOU
GET TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE UPPER
SERVANTS LIKE CARSON AND
MRS. HUGHES AS BUTLER AND
HOUSEKEEPER, THEY'RE VERY SENIOR
PEOPLE AND THEY WOULD'VE HAD
QUITE COVETED POSITIONS.
AND IN FACT, THEY WOULD'VE BEEN
COVETED BY OTHER HOUSES AROUND
THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW.
IF A BUTLER DIED IN ANOTHER
HOUSE, THEY MIGHT TRY AND POACH
CARSON FOR THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW.
SO, THEY HAD A CERTAIN SORT OF
POWER.
THEY CERTAINLY EARNED, YOU KNOW,
RESPECT FROM BOTH THE PEOPLE
THEY WORK FOR AND THE PEOPLE WHO
WORKED UNDERNEATH THEM.
THEIR LIVES WERE DRIVEN BY THE
PURPOSE OF WHAT THEY DID, AND WE
SEE THAT VERY MUCH IN SOMEONE
LIKE CARSON, YOU KNOW, AND LOTS
OF PEOPLE SAY, "CAN WE HAVE MORE
SCENES WHERE CARSON'S WORRYING
ABOUT THE PUDDING GLASSES ON THE
TABLE AND THINGS," BUT, YOU
KNOW, THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF
WHAT HE DID.
YOU KNOW, HIS JOB WAS TO CREATE
THE BEST SHOW ON EARTH IN THAT
HOUSE SO THAT LORD AND
LADY GRANTHAM COULD INVITE THE
VERY BEST PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY
AND HAVE A POWER OF THEIR OWN.
YOU KNOW, THAT WAS WHAT HE WAS
THERE FOR.
IF HE DIDN'T WORRY ABOUT IT,
THEN WHAT WAS THE POINT OF DOING
WHAT HE DID?
AND WHAT BECAME VERY DIFFICULT
FOR HIM WAS THAT THOSE NOTIONS
BEGAN TO CHANGE IN THE YOUNGER
GENERATION, AND WE SEE THAT IN
SORT OF THE YOUNGER FOOTMEN WHO
JOIN THE SHOW.
THEY DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND.
THEY CAN'T TAKE THINGS AS
SERIOUSLY AS ALL THAT, YOU KNOW.
THE WAR HAS BLOWN APART A LOT
OF, YOU KNOW, THEIR PERCEPTIONS
OF WHAT PRIORITIES REALLY SHOULD
BE.
YOU KNOW, REMEMBER, THEY LOST A
GENERATION OF MEN.
LIFE WAS SHORT, YOU KNOW.
COULD YOU REALLY WORRY ABOUT THE
PUDDING GLASSES WHEN THERE WERE
MEN OUT THERE WHO WERE TRYING TO
GET BY WITH, YOU KNOW, ONE LEG
AND THAT SORT OF THING?
SO, AND ALSO, TECHNICAL ADVANCES
AGAIN, HAD CREATED MORE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM.
YOU COULD NOW GO AND WORK IN THE
CITY.
YOU COULD WORK AS A TELEPHONIST,
YOU COULD WORK AS A SECRETARY,
YOU COULD WORK IN ONE OF THE BIG
DEPARTMENT STORES.
YOU KNOW, THERE WAS SORT OF THIS
IDEA OF MOBILITY WAS MUCH
GREATER BECAUSE OF CARS AND
TRAINS.
AND, YOU KNOW, SO I THINK WE SEE
THEM ALL STRUGGLE WITH THAT, YOU
KNOW, AND THERE IS NO REAL
RESOLUTION.
I MEAN, THOSE HOUSES DID KIND OF
STAGGER ON UNTIL THE
SECOND WORLD WAR, EVEN IF A LOT
OF THE ARISTOCRACY LOST THEIR
MONEY AFTER THE FIRST WORLD WAR,
AND THEY LOST A LOT OF THEIR
HEIRS, AS WELL, BECAUSE THEY'D
BEEN KILLED.
BUT YOU DID HAVE A SORT OF
GROWING NOUVEAU RICHE WHO BOUGHT
THE HOUSES AND THEY WANTED TO
RUN THEM IN THE OLD STYLE, SO
THEY DID EMPLOY AS MANY SERVANTS
AS THEY COULD, BUT THERE WEREN'T
AS MANY SERVANTS WHO WANTED TO
BE EMPLOYED THEN, YOU KNOW.
SO, AND ALL OF THIS CREATED
SOCIAL SHIFTS, YOU KNOW, AND YOU
GET -- IT'S LIKE A RIPPLE
EFFECT, YOU KNOW?
IT JUST BEGINS TO SPREAD.
>> WHAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE PART
OF THE FIRST SEASON?
OBVIOUSLY, THAT SET THE
FOUNDATION FOR THE SERIES, BUT
WAS THERE SOME PIECE OF IT THAT
WAS MOST COMPELLING?
>> EDITH IS SOMEBODY THAT I FIND
PARTICULARLY INTERESTING BECAUSE
SHE REPRESENTS BEST THE CHANGE
OF EXPECTATIONS FOR WOMEN AT
THAT TIME FOR UPPER-CLASS YOUNG
WOMEN.
I MEAN, AT THAT TIME, IF YOU
WERE AN UPPER-CLASS YOUNG WOMAN,
YOU SOUGHT YOUR OWN
INDEPENDENCE, AND THE WAY YOU
GOT INDEPENDENCE WAS THROUGH
MARRIAGE.
UNTIL YOU WERE MARRIED, YOU
LIVED IN YOUR PARENTS' HOUSE AND
YOU LIVED UNDER THEIR
JURISDICTION AND YOU WENT
EVERYWHERE CHAPERONED TO THE
DEGREE WHERE A COUSIN OF
WINSTON CHURCHILL'S WAS SPOTTED
WALKING ALONE ACROSS HYDE PARK
AND TOLD SHE'D RUINED HER
CHANCES OF MARRIAGE FOREVER.
YOU KNOW, SO IT WAS PRETTY
STRICT.
BUT THE FIRST WORLD WAR, AS WE
SAW IN THE SHOW, CHANGED ALL
THAT, YOU KNOW.
AND EDITH STARTS LEARNING TO
DRIVE AND SHE DRIVES A TRACTOR
AND SHE WEARS TROUSERS AND SHE'S
KISSING MARRIED MEN AND THEN
SHE'S WORKING AS A JOURNALIST,
AND, YOU KNOW, SHE BEGINS TO SEE
THAT SHE'S NOT GONNA LIVE THE
LIFE THAT HER MOTHER LIVED OR
HER GRANDMOTHER OR HER GREAT
GRANDMOTHER.
AND IT'S NOT JUST A FAILURE ON
HER PART, YOU KNOW.
SHE WOULD PUT IT DOWN TO NOT
BEING AS PRETTY AS HER YOUNGER
DAUGHTER -- YOUNGER SISTER OR
NOT BEING AS SORT OF ASSERTIVE
AS HER OLDER SISTER OR WHATEVER.
SHE BEGINS TO SEE ACTUALLY IT'S
NOT FOR THOSE REASONS.
THIS IS JUST HOW LIFE IS, AND
SHE'S GONNA HAVE TO CHANGE THE
WAY THAT SHE THINKS ABOUT IT.
AND SO, IT'S INTERESTING GOING
IN TO SEASON FOUR TO SEE HOW SHE
DEALS WITH THAT.
BUT JUST IN THE RESEARCH, I
FOUND IT FASCINATING TO FIND OUT
ABOUT THOSE WOMEN THAT, AFTER
THE FIRST WORLD WAR, THERE WERE
LOTS OF CONCERNS IN THE
NEWSPAPERS ABOUT THE FACT THERE
WERE MORE WOMEN THAN MEN.
THEY THOUGHT THERE WERE ABOUT A
MILLION MORE WOMEN THAN MEN.
AND THEN THEY DID A CENSUS IN
1921, AND THEY REALIZED THERE
WERE, IN FACT, 2 MILLION MORE
WOMEN THAN MEN.
AND ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAD
SOMETHING LIKE 1.7 MILLION MEN
COME BACK FROM THE WAR INJURED.
AND EVEN THE ONES WHO CAME BACK
WELL DIDN'T REALLY COME BACK
TERRIBLY WELL.
YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THE HORRIBLE
ISSUES OF SURVIVOR'S GUILT, AND,
YOU KNOW, THEY HAD BEEN THROUGH
THINGS THAT THEY COULDN'T TALK
TO ANYONE ABOUT, AND SO THERE
WAS, YOU KNOW, SO THERE WAS A
BIG DIVIDE BETWEEN THE MEN AND
THE WOMEN AT THAT TIME.
AND THEN, SO THESE WOMEN
COULDN'T -- THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE
OPTION OF A MAN GIVING THEM
THEIR POWER AND THEIR
INDEPENDENCE OR EVEN JUST
FENDING FOR THEM.
YOU KNOW, PUTTING A ROOF OVER
THEIR HEAD AND PUTTING THE MEALS
ON THE TABLE.
THEY HAD TO GO OUT AND DO IT FOR
THEMSELVES.
AND THEY FOUND IT VERY DIFFICULT
WHEN THEY WENT OUT TO DO IT.
THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE
CALLED UNPATRIOTIC BECAUSE THEY
HAD BEEN TAKING JOBS FROM THE
BOYS.
BUT WHAT COULD THEY DO IF THEY
DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, IF THEY DIDN'T
EARN MONEY?
AND THEN THEY WOULDN'T BE, EVEN
IF THEY DID MANAGE TO GET A JOB,
THEY WEREN'T PAID PROPERLY
BECAUSE THEY WERE SEEN, YOU
KNOW, NOT TO HAVE ANY
DEPENDENTS, AND SO THEREFORE,
SURELY, THEY WERE JUST EARNING
PIN MONEY.
A LOT OF THEM HAD DEPENDANTS.
YOU KNOW, IT WAS KIND OF TRAGIC.
THERE'S A WONDERFUL BOOK CALLED
"SINGLED OUT" BY
VIRGINIA NICHOLSON ABOUT THIS
TOPIC, AND SHE TALKS ABOUT A
COUPLE -- TWO TEACHERS -- WHO
FALL MADLY, MADLY IN LOVE WITH
EACH OTHER, BUT THEY CANNOT GET
MARRIED BECAUSE IF THEY GET
MARRIED, SHE WILL HAVE TO GIVE
UP HER JOB BECAUSE OF THE
MARRIAGE BAR, IN WHICH CASE, SHE
WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SUPPORT HER
DEPENDENTS, AND THEY COULDN'T
SUPPORT ALL OF THEIR DEPENDANTS
ON HIS SALARY ALONE, SO THEY
COULD NEVER MARRY.
JUST LIKE, "OH," AND, YOU KNOW,
THAT WAS THE KIND OF THING THAT
THEY WENT THROUGH.
BUT SOME OF THESE WOMEN ALSO
REALLY, YOU KNOW, FOUGHT THROUGH
AND MADE THE CHANGES.
THEY WENT TO UNIVERSITY, THEY
EARNED DEGREES, THEY LEARNED TO
FLY PLANES, THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY
RAN COMPANIES, THEY SAT IN THE
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT GETTING THE
VOTE.
THAT WAS ONE SPECIFIC THING THAT
THE SUFFRAGETTES ACHIEVED, BUT
ALL OF THOSE WOMEN -- THE
"SURPLUS WOMEN," THEY CALLED
THEM -- I MEAN, THERE WERE
EDITORIALS DISCUSSING THAT THE
SURPLUS WOMEN SHOULD BE SHIPPED
TO THE COLONIES TO FIND HUSBANDS
OVER THERE AND THINGS.
BUT THOSE SURPLUS WOMEN WERE
THE ONES WHO CREATED THE BIG
CULTURAL, SOCIAL CHANGES, AND
ARGUABLY, ADVANCED FEMINISM, YOU
KNOW, 20 YEARS FURTHER ALONG
THAN IT MIGHT'VE DONE OTHERWISE.
>> AND I THINK IT'S GOOD TO
REMIND PEOPLE ABOUT HOW OUT OF
BALANCE SOCIETY IS AFTER A GREAT
WAR, WHICH HAS KILLED A
SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF THOSE OF
ONE GENDER.
>> YEAH.
>> AND THEN THEY COME BACK.
AND THIS WAS ALSO IN THE CONTEXT
OF THE SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT.
TALK TO US A BIT ABOUT HOW THAT
WORKED IN TERMS OF GRANTING THE
VOTE TO WOMEN AND THE RISKS
THEREOF.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
WELL, THE SUFFRAGETTES, YOU
KNOW, HAD FOUGHT A VERY
SUCCESSFUL CAMPAIGN UP TO THE
FIRST WORLD WAR -- A VERY
AGGRESSIVE AND VERY MILITANT
CAMPAIGN.
AND MOST OF THEM, APART FROM A
SMALL BAND, AGREED TO STOP
CAMPAIGNING DURING THE
FIRST WORLD WAR.
AND IT WAS KIND OF CONSIDERED
THAT THE GOVERNMENT, AS A REWARD
TO THE WOMEN FOR THAT
CONSIDERATION AND FOR THE FACT
THAT THEY DID DO A LOT OF WORK
IN THE FIRST WORLD WAR -- I
MEAN, YOU KNOW, WOMEN WERE
PLOWING THE FIELDS AND MANNING
THE BUSSES AND EVEN COAL MINING
IN SOME PLACES, AND, YOU KNOW,
THEY REALLY KEPT THE COUNTRY
GOING WHILE ALL THE MEN HAVE
GONE.
SO, IT WAS SEEN AS A GESTURE OF
GOODWILL BY THE GOVERNMENT TO
GIVE THEM THE VOTE, BUT THEY
DIDN'T GIVE ALL WOMEN THE VOTE
IN 1919.
THEY ONLY GAVE WOMEN OVER THE
AGE OF 30 WHO ARE PROPERTY
OWNERS THE VOTE, AND THE REASON
WAS THAT IF THEY HAD GIVEN WOMEN
EQUAL SUFFRAGE TO MEN, MORE
WOMEN THAN MEN WOULD'VE BEEN
VOTING, WHICH WOULD'VE MEANT
THAT WOMEN WERE DECIDING WHO RAN
THE COUNTRY, AND OBVIOUSLY, THEY
COULDN'T HAVE THAT, SO...
[ CHUCKLES ]
SO, WE HAD TO WAIT QUITE A FEW
MORE YEARS FOR EQUAL SUFFRAGE.
>> I WONDER WHAT WOULD'VE
HAPPENED IF THEY HAD RECEIVED
THE FULL VOTE RIGHT AWAY -- HOW
THINGS WOULD'VE TURNED OUT.
>> I MEAN, IT WOULD'VE BEEN
EXTRAORDINARY, BUT, YOU KNOW,
IT'S QUITE INTERESTING WHEN YOU
LOOK 'CAUSE MEN WERE AFRAID THAT
WOMEN WERE GOING TO TAKE OVER
THE WORLD AND THEY WOULD BE LEFT
USELESS, BECAUSE THE MEN, I
THINK, TO BE FAIR, A LOT OF MEN
AT THAT TIME WERE FEELING VERY
BROKEN, VERY DEPLETED.
YOU KNOW, THEY WERE COMING BACK
PSYCHOLOGICALLY, IF NOT
PHYSICALLY SCARRED, AND THE
WOMEN WERE SORT OF VERY ROBUST
AND SAYING, "LOOK AT EVERYTHING
WE ACHIEVED," AND, YOU KNOW, "WE
KEPT THE SHOW ON THE ROAD WHILE
YOU WERE AWAY," AND THAT DIDN'T
MAKE THEM FEEL ALL THAT GREAT
ABOUT THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW.
SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS
A REALLY INTERESTING, COMPLEX
PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE GOING ON.
IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT HAVING A
VOTE OR NOT HAVING A VOTE.
IT WAS ABOUT THESE MEN AND WOMEN
IN SOCIETY TRYING TO FIND A WAY
AHEAD TOGETHER WHERE THEY COULD
LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER.
>> SO, IN SEASON THREE, WHAT IS
YOUR FAVORITE PART?
>> IT WAS INCREDIBLY SAD, AND
SYBIL'S DEATH, I REALLY
COMMENDED JULIAN FOR NOT
FLINCHING FROM AN ASPECT OF THE
GOOD OLD DAYS THAT WEREN'T THAT
GOOD.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW -- I LIKE
THE FACT THAT HE BRINGS THAT
COMPLEXITY INTO THE SHOW.
HE SAID ONCE THAT HE ALWAYS
BEGINS FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT
PEOPLE TRY TO BE GOOD -- THAT
WHEN HE'S WRITING A CHARACTER,
PEOPLE START OFF WANTING TO BE
GOOD AND GET, YOU KNOW -- AND
THEN MAYBE SOME OF THEM GET
PULLED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
AND I THINK IT'S THE FACT THAT,
YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY
IS IN THE FAMILY ABOVE THEM
DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY'RE
GONNA BE GOOD -- AWFUL, RATHER.
AND JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY IS A
SERVANT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE
GOING TO BE ALL SORT OF JOLLY
AND NICE.
IT SORT OF STOPS US PATRONIZING
THE PEOPLE OF THE PAST IN THE
WAY I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE A
TENDENCY TO DO OTHERWISE.
WE THINK, WELL, YOU KNOW, "THEY
HAD THAT KIND OF ROLE IN LIFE.
THEY WORE THOSE CLOTHES.
THEY PROBABLY THOUGHT LIKE THIS.
THEY WERE CONTENT IN THAT WAY."
AND IN FACT, THEY WERE JUST AS
MESSY AND JUST AS EMOTIONAL AS
WE ALL ARE NOW TRYING TO FIND
THEIR WAY THROUGH IT.
>> DO YOU FEEL THAT PEOPLE WATCH
BECAUSE THEY'RE INTERESTED IN
WHAT WAS HAPPENING DURING THAT
TIME, OR DO YOU FEEL THAT SOME
ARE WATCHING BECAUSE THEY KIND
OF WISH THEY COULD GO BACK TO
THAT PERIOD?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE
ELEMENT OF ESCAPISM.
I THINK WE'VE ALL HAD -- ALL
OVER THE WORLD, WE'VE HAD HARD
TIMES IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, AND
I THINK WATCHING A TV SHOW THAT
WE CAN ALL SIT DOWN TOGETHER AS
A FAMILY AND WATCH AND THAT
TAKES US BACK INTO A TIME THAT
APPEARS TO BE ONE OF MUCH MORE
CERTAINTY.
AND WE LIKE LISTENING TO WHAT
THE DOWAGER COUNTESS HAS GOT TO
SAY ABOUT THINGS -- YOU KNOW,
THOSE DRY WORDS OF WISDOM, YOU
KNOW, WORK FOR US.
BUT I THINK, AND I CERTAINLY GET
THE SENSE IN AMERICA WHEN I COME
OVER, I ALWAYS GET ASKED VERY
INTELLIGENT QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
HISTORY OF THE PERIOD, AND I
THINK THERE IS A REAL INTEREST,
YOU KNOW, IN -- THERE'S SORT OF
RECOGNITION THAT IT WAS THE
BEGINNING OF OUR MODERN AGE --
YOU KNOW, WHAT SET US ON OUR
PATH NOW.
I DEFINITELY THINK, YOU KNOW,
SOMETHING WE SAW IN SEASON THREE
WAS CORA'S MOTHER COMING OVER AS
SHIRLEY MacLAINE.
AND YOU REALLY SEE IN HER, YOU
KNOW, THE DIFFERENCE IN ATTITUDE
THAT AMERICANS HAD AFTER THE
FIRST WORLD WAR, WHERE
OBVIOUSLY, THEY HAD CONTRIBUTED
SIGNIFICANTLY, BUT WERE NOT
DEPLETED IN THE SAME WAY, AND
THEY WERE FACING THE FUTURE WITH
OPTIMISM AND COURAGE AND HOPE
AND, YOU KNOW, SEEING THIS AS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO BREAK WITH
TRADITION AND DO THINGS
DIFFERENTLY, AND ENGLAND REALLY
NEEDED THAT AND KIND OF LATCHED
ONTO IT, AND ALSO ENJOYED ALL
THE PRODUCTS THAT AMERICA WAS
EXPORTING -- ALL THE CADILLACS
AND THE HOOVERS, AND THERE WAS
THIS REAL SENSE OF, YOU KNOW,
"OH, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THE
THINGS -- WE DON'T HAVE TO TRY
AND GO BACK TO NORMAL."
YOU KNOW, "WE CAN'T GO BACK TO
NORMAL, SO WE CAN MAYBE DO
SOMETHING ELSE."
IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE
ENGLISH/AMERICAN RELATIONSHIP.
IT'S NOT ALWAYS CONSCIOUS.
ALL OF THAT, I THINK, EQUALLY --
WE LOVE LOOKING AT THE BEAUTIFUL
DRESSES AND, YOU KNOW, THE
GORGEOUS LOCATIONS AND, YOU
KNOW, I THINK IT'S A VERY
MASTERFUL PRODUCTION IN THAT
SENSE.
>> SO, EVERYONE'S EXCITED ABOUT
SEASON FOUR.
CAN YOU OFFER US SOME GLIMPSES
INTO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO
EXPERIENCE?
>> WELL, WE'RE GOING TO START
SEASON FOUR SIX MONTHS AFTER
MATTHEW'S DEATH.
AND SO, IT'S -- WHICH I THINK
REALLY IS ABOUT THE FACT THAT
IT'S STILL FEELING VERY SAD, BUT
PERHAPS NOT TOO RAW.
AND SO, HOW THE FAMILY ARE
BEGINNING TO MOVE ON FROM THAT
AND THE ISSUES THAT THEY'RE
GONNA HAVE TO FACE.
AND IT'S GONNA BE 1922, SO WE'RE
GETTING A LITTLE BIT DEEPER INTO
THE 1920s ERA AND THAT VERY
ATTRACTIVE ERA OF FLAPPERS AND
DANCING AND JAZZ, AND IT GETS A
LITTLE BIT MORE SEXY, AND WE'VE
GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE
NAUGHTINESS GOING ON WITH THE
COUSINS.
ROSE HAS COME TO STAY WITH THEM
AND EDITH, YOU KNOW, SORT OF
EMBRACING POTENTIAL NEW WAYS OF
LIVING.
BUT THEY KEPT IT IN THE HOUSE.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S GREAT.
YOU KNOW, JULIAN UNDERSTANDS
THAT WHAT WE ALL REALLY WANT IS
"DOWNTON ABBEY."
YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO WATCH THE
FAMILY AND WE WANT TO WATCH THE
SERVANTS, AND IT'S NOT ABOUT
TAKING THIS SITUATION TO
SOMEWHERE ELSE.
YOU KNOW, SO WE WILL STILL SEE
CARSON WORRYING ABOUT PUDDING
GLASSES.
[ CHUCKLES ]
>> ANY SURPRISES THAT YOU CAN
ENLIGHTEN US ABOUT?
>> OOH, WELL, I CAN'T GIVE
ANYTHING AWAY, BUT, YOU KNOW,
IT'S DEFINITELY WORTH WAITING
FOR.
[ CHUCKLES ]
>> I LIKE THE WAY YOU COMPARE
THE CHANGES OF THAT PERIOD WITH
THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE BEEN
EXPERIENCING, YOU KNOW, IN THE
PAST DECADE.
ARE THERE OTHER LESSONS FROM THE
"DOWNTON ABBEY" SERIES THAT
APPLY OR COULD APPLY TO TODAY?
>> I THINK SOME OF THE THINGS
THAT I WISH WE HAD A LITTLE BIT
MORE OF IN THE PRESENT DAY IS
THIS SORT OF SENSE OF GRACE, IF
THAT MAKES SENSE.
THERE'S A SORT OF GENTLENESS IN
THE WAY THAT THINGS WERE DONE
THEN THAT FEELS A LITTLE BIT
LIKE IT'S MISSING NOW, AND I
THINK WHEN PEOPLE WATCH THE
SHOW, THEY DO SEE THAT.
AND I MEAN, WHAT IS INCREDIBLY
NICE IS THAT THERE'S ALWAYS A
VERY WARM FEELING TOWARDS
"DOWNTON ABBEY," AND I WAS
LISTENING -- I WAS INTERVIEWING,
IN FACT, THE WOMAN WHO LIVES IN
THE HOUSE THAT IS USED FOR
MRS. CRAWLEY'S HOUSE.
THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY NICE
WOMAN, AND SHE HAS PEOPLE COMING
AROUND AND PEERING OVER HER
GARDEN WALL ALL THE TIME, YOU
KNOW, AND WE SAID, "DO YOU MIND?
YOU KNOW, DO YOU FEEL LIKE
YOU'RE GETTING YOUR DOOR KNOCKED
ON ALL THE TIME?"
SHE SAID, "WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S
FINE, BECAUSE THE KIND OF PEOPLE
WHO WATCH 'DOWNTON ABBEY' ARE
REALLY VERY NICE," YOU KNOW.
AND THERE IS THAT FEELING I FEEL
LIKE EVERYBODY'S JOINED IN IN
THAT WAY, SO IF MAYBE EVERYBODY
JUST TAKES FROM IT A LITTLE GOOD
GRACE AND MANNERS, THEN I'D BE
DELIGHTED ABOUT THAT.
>> WHAT HAS BEEN THE MOST
PROFOUND IMPACT ON YOU
PERSONALLY FROM THE WHOLE
"DOWNTON ABBEY" EXPERIENCE?
>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK FOR ME,
WHAT HAS BEEN WONDERFUL IS THAT
IT'S REALLY TAKEN ME BACK TO MY
LOVE OF HISTORY, WHICH I'D
ALMOST SORT OF FORGOTTEN ABOUT.
AND I HAD, YOU KNOW, I SPENT
MANY HOURS DISCUSSING HISTORICAL
TOPICS WITH JULIAN, BUT ALSO MY
GRANDFATHER AND HIS WIFE.
AND THEN I SORT OF DID A
PHILOSOPHY DEGREE, AND THEN I
WENT AND WORKED IN JOURNALISM,
AND ALTHOUGH I ALWAYS LIKED
STORIES AND I ALWAYS LIKED
PEOPLE, I CONCENTRATED VERY MUCH
ON WHAT WAS GOING ON NOW, AND I
SORT OF FORGOT ABOUT MY LOVE OF
HISTORY, REALLY.
AND SO, THE "DOWNTON" BOOKS AND
WORKING ON THE "DOWNTON" BOOKS
REALLY HAVE TAKEN ME BACK TO
THAT, AND IT'S JUST BEEN HEAVEN.
SO, I FEEL LIKE I'VE REALLY
SUDDENLY FOUND THE THING I
REALLY WANT TO DO FOR THE NEXT
30 YEARS, SO THAT'S VERY
EXCITING.
>> GREAT, WELL, THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US TODAY,
JESSICA FELLOWES.
>> THANK YOU.
>> AND THANK YOU.
FOR "GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES," I'M
JOHN BERSIA, AND WE'LL SEE YOU
NEXT TIME.