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I am going to build upon what we did in the last session to show its application through
some case studies and then, we will go talking on Management by Objectives. As I was trying
to explain to you, the most important part of organization management is be able to intervene
in organizations; to get them to be, where you want them to be and the distance from
where you are to where you want to be, is the business of organization management.
We looked at n number of tools through which this can be enabled and these tools would
mean essentially intervening at the individual level, intervening at the interpersonal level,
intervening at the group level and we saw the mechanics of it. Ultimately, as I was
explaining to you once you have intervened and caused a change in the equilibrium of
forces, then you help the forces to settle down and that is called the process of stabilization
of change, then the cycle begins all over again and you go back to its analysis.
So, whenever you talk of an organization wide intervention, it is a large scale change effort
that increases the effectiveness of an entire organizational system. This is an eternal
quest because no matter how good you are mostly rational people and most people who can think
straight want to keep on improving themselves. Of course, if you have achieved nirvana, it
is not meant for you. Nothing that I say is meant for the genius, it is all beamed (aimed)
at the normal mortal and whatever I say is meant for the species which believes in improving
itself. If you think you have achieved perfection obviously, you do not need anything of what
is being said here. So, the quest for improvement is the search for effectiveness and that is
what this statement is all about.
Organization in wide intervention deals with issues of communication, job satisfaction,
leadership and we discussed all that in the last session. I want to take up the case study
of Granite Rock Company. Normally, when a case study is undertaken it is customary to
distribute it and let people read it, but letting people read and come back with solutions
when their half-baked is not the correct way of undertaking case studies.
It is asking people to diagnose a case without having understood the fundamentals of human
anatomy or fundamentals of human physiology, they will talk and if they are smart, they
will talk smart but they would not talk profession. There will be hardly any content to it which
makes sense in terms of a diagnostic analysis. Therefore, I decided to take up case studies
with you, not in the classical sense but show to you what we looked in the last session
gets actually applied. Now, the case of a Granite Rock Company which
is what I am going to elaborate as an illustration of principles which we talked about. It is
that of a 105 year old company which was connected with construction material manufacturer and
a supplier company.
In 1987, competition changed and large multinational conglomerates entered the market, granite
rock was at disadvantage in terms of profit and resources. Again, I think you should go
back to the preceding session and recall how we analyze the changes in environment which
make changes in the person. How technological changes change the working of an organization
and how indeed people who do not change do not even belong to the Jurassic park, because
we discussed how Jurassic park exists only in movies, there is no Jurassic park on this
planet. If you are outdated you are extinct, you do
not deserve to live and life like nature is totally cruel about it, you cannot argue with
it. If you think you can fool around nature, my invitation is try it, find out for yourself.
In 1987, this company which had several years and decades of experience behind you discovered
that the world had once again changed therefore, the nature of resources have changed. We had
also discussed in the preceding session how change in material and how change in technology
makes a choice of an intervention strategy a must. How you have to combine more than
one intervention strategy to make it work, the idea is to see how it works for this company.
06:13)
The company realized that it had to change its strategy to survive and it conducted customer
surveys to analyze its performance. For those of you who have seen the preceding presentation
will recall that we talked of how surveys are set up and how survey results are analyzed
and what it has to do with an organization wide intervention.
The results of survey proved that the customers were satisfied with the product quality and
the customer service, but they were dissatisfied by the time taken to process special orders.
Now, we get deeper into the water, it is not good enough to do a survey because, what you
find from the survey may not be a holistic picture, where you will need other intervention
strategies. Even your results from the survey may be a fractured result; it will not be
a black versus white result, which is why, again the outcome of any management education
has to be by definition with a certain maturity. Management was not meant for kids and if kids
get into management they do to themselves what people do when they play with knives,
sooner or later it will cause a gash. You may get away with it for a while, but as I
said the chicken do come home to roost. Now, what do you do in a case where certain
aspects of the survey shows that the quality is all right but the time for special orders
does not work. You do not go back and argue with the customers, recall what I was trying
to tell you, each customer votes with his rupee. People do not want to deal with you
if you cannot deliver it on time. You may have the best of reasons but who is interested
in your reasons, are you interested in anybody else's reason when some service you want is
not delivered on time. Why should anyone be patient with you when you do not deliver in
time as a part of the organization and if there is a take away from this session, it
is habits do not change. People at a certain age believe that they
behave in a certain manner at a given point of time but when they get into another environment
they will change, it never happens. Their behavior may differ on one occasion or on
two occasions ultimately, they will go back to the habits that have formed with them,
habit is the man.
In this case, with all the quality with them and with all the customer service systems
and position, it was just late delivery which was going to cost them very heavy. So, how
did it go about dealing with these customers to meet customers' expectations, that company
decided to empower the employees. Again this is a claptrap solution, it is like saying
if you want a system to work well create democracy; the truth is democracy can create many more
problems than it solves, if people are not prepared for democracy.
The difference between democracy and mobocracy is very limited when the people are not educated
about it. The only truth about democracy is ultimately it gives to people what they deserve
and that is an unequivocal truth. So, once you say empower people what does
it mean? The people whom you are empowering should have the capacity first of all to have
good sense which is a very rare commodity; 2, must have the capability; 3, must have
the commitment; 4, must be capable of assessing and evaluating, that is why transactional
analysis comes it, which is why a lot of people who do well in single domain professions like
engineering, law, medicine do not do well in management. Because, management is an integrative
discipline; it requires by definition the ability to put together diverse components.
Above of all, it requires the ability to think on the job and thinking is not an isolated
act; thinking requires an inherent competence to observe, to assess, to structure, to interpret and it is then
that the domain knowledge comes in. Therefore, the first important ability is
comprehension; you cannot comprehend unless you can concentrate and nobody can be taught
concentration. It has to come from within which is why people sleep while listening
to something, their mind is not able to comprehend what is being said. When the mind is not able
to comprehend what is being said then, the ability to register what is being said goes
down. Yet, if you are compelled to be there your faculties start losing their energy and
therefore, sleep occurs. Management is therefore both an art and a
science something which we have repeatedly come back to. It is a science to the extent
that there is some use of data, but it is an art because, it belongs only to those who
can enjoy it. People come to management for all sorts of wrong reasons and which is why
several of them never progress anywhere beyond being senior managers or deputy general managers
even till the time of retirement. You look at the profile of people who retire and you
will find that three-fourth of the population retires are there rank of a DGM or a general
manager. Why does this happen? If the same person had
gone into engineering or any other single profession, even if he had become a merchant
navy personnel or if he had set up his own business or he had joined the army, he would
have done brilliantly, but people join management out of a herd mentality that is, where you
are expected to do well.
Now, unfortunately capabilities do not grow like onions; so there is a lack of fit between
what you are and what the job is about and that causes disaster. If you do not have this
ability to sense what the employee needs, I might submit to you as a paradigm that empowering
them is not going to work. So, do not go by claptrap statements; this has to be paraphrased
and that is what case studies are about. What the company can do as a whole is to make
its objectives clear, which in this case they did and one of the ways in which you make
the objectives clear is you break it up into smaller components, so the organization broke
up its objectives into 9 discrete components. In other words, if you cannot get the people
to have the cognitive competency to comprehend the whole, then break up the whole into parts,
because that again dealing with a child, you are not dealing with an adult. If you remember
what I talked in terms of transactional analysis, you will know exactly what is the difference
between a child and an adult.
Individual professional development is again something which the company enabled, because
you can give to a person an opportunity, you cannot make it mandatory for him to grow.
So, the company decided that they would have an organization wide individual professional
development plan, which is why the pre-requisite of every good organization is careful recruitment.
The trouble however is again something which a gentleman remarked yesterday which I think
is worth quoting. As usual I was emphasizing the need for competency
and the need for commitment and the need for capability and I was told sir, what makes
you think; I am putting it in my words that companies know whom they recruit you can easily
get 24, 25, 30000 rupees without having any competency and you cruise along perfectly
well. It again struck me, as a fairly incisive observation
on how inept the recruitment processes of a lot of companies are. Now, if you have got
inept people getting into inept organizations through inept recruitment processes, is it
any surprise that the number of companies which fail are so much larger than the number
of companies which succeed. The messages written on the wall or verse you look at the rate
of attrition, people talk of recruits which leave, nobody has ever calculated about the
number of recruits which are gently and firmly shown the door.
The messages given very clear, sorry we made a mistake somewhere you should not be here
look elsewhere. All that I am saying is Granite Rock Company took an overall view of the situation
and encourage people to participate in the decision making processes. It did not make
it mandatory, so the important word here is encouraged. Therefore, the first leg was individual
professional development, job performance, carrier advancement goals, identifying training
expertise are necessary to achieve these goals.
The final IPDP list included development objectives of employees, actions which are to be taken
and measurement strategies; I would like to emphasize the word measurement. Any enhancement
of capability has to be measured and there are instruments which help you to do it; there
are instruments which even help you to measure your competency at ideation.
There are perfect instruments you do not get hundred percent reliable results, but it is
a fairly good approximation. Therefore, a lot of training programs have pretests and
posttests; the pretests assess your competency before you undergo that program and the posttest
assesses your competency after you have gone through this program. The great thing about
the Granite Rock Company because it was a turnaround experience was that it believed
in measurement of enhancement of capabilities.
The measurement strategy therefore, required clear timeframe; you cannot be forever saying
I will do it or when I can or when it suits me and when as if, sorry. You have to do it
in a time bound mode in a manner in which you have been advised with the specifications,
that is required of you and if you cannot do it pack up and move. There are many reasons
for American success, like every other community Americans also have their problems, but one
of their successes is this; they do not hire people, they hire competencies.
As long as you serve a purpose in the organization you are there; you do not serve a purpose
in the organization, you are fired and that is all there is to it. None of this business
that he is poor fellow, he will die, he has nothing to do, where will he go send him to
a [FL]. There is a quip everyone wants to go to heaven
but no one wants to die. Similarly, everyone envies America they are not willing to pay
the price which the Americans pay for their kind of results and it is not for nothing.
That in a unipolar world the nature of the world economy is decided by the kind of economic
fortunes which the American nation goes through. I am merely trying to link up economic fortunes
with productivity indices and measurements of performance. It is not that America is
the only place where it happens but you do not run organization like [FL].
You must have a clear demonstration of new knowledge and skills because, if the environment
is changing, so should you be changing. In organizations where I have been hired to do
the performance appraisal, I have always created a column which says what are the new skills
you have acquired during the period of evaluation and it cannot be the answer that my superior
did not tell me what skills to get. Your superior is a reporting authority and
there was a time when people believed that developing subordinates was a major managerial
responsibility now that has been redefined. You cannot develop a subordinate against his
wishes; you will only cause resentment, the most you can do is give your subordinates
and opportunity to grow. Growth is always a person's personal responsibility and Granite
Rock Company was able to bring a turnabout by following just said this simple principle.
Now where do you put it, in managerial great or transaction analysis or any of the other
interventions strategies I do not know, because ultimately life does not have any neat categories
and that is what this cases supposed to show, so ultimately that there is a process of evaluation
and feedback.
We also talked of the involvement of employees in the decision making process. People have
a responsibility to understand that participation in a patronization process or participation
in a decision making process is not a single act, it carries with it certain degree of
accountability. In other words, are you responsible enough to be given that opportunities a very
important question. Please mark my words, are you responsible enough to be given that
opportunity and we are now not referring to capability because enough has been said on
that.
Not only did they pay emphasis on the human aspect but plant expansion was undertaken.
Now, this is a fairly unusual solution in time of distress you decide to expand. It
is a very useful thing because in time of distress the overall demand goes down and
when the overall demand goes down there is slack time and that slack time should be used
either for augmenting skills or for augmenting facilities. So, there was a focus on ergonomics
of the new plant therefore, it will cause system and cultural change; now that is the
derivation from that case analysis. When a company engages in a successful organization
wide OD development change occurs both in organization systems and culture. We have
spent enough time discussing both systems and culture earlier not to make it a repeat
experiencing. Organization develop new strategies for utilization of resources more efficiently
particularly the human resources.
10 years later what happened? The market share increased by 88 percent, customer satisfaction
increased twice the industry standards that is the way to be a market leader. If you are
merely conforming to the industry standards, your average and to be successful you have
to be more than average. This is something which is not understood about the business
of standards. Everyone talks of standards, but it is my case that standards themselves
create mediocrity; you have to excel this standards to get business. Reaching standards
alone will merely help you to keep a float if at all that and that is a different take
on standards.
How do you Nurture a system through continuous survey feedback method. There is the customer
satisfaction index, there is the employee satisfaction index in fact, there are indices
available on just about anything you would like to measure. I remember having spent some
time in developing an index to assess employees maturity - maturity index. Different people
have defined maturity in a different manner, like everything else I defined maturity in
a very simple manner, maturity is the ability to know by yourself what is good for you.
If you are the one who gets carried away or you are the one who is slothful or you are
the one who does not even know the consequences of what you're doing then of course, you deserve
what will come your way. Then, there is a system for management, there
is a grid management development system, there is a TQM; I am not going to discuss TQM because
it has already been discussed. I am not going to discuss grid management development because
it has already been discussed, but I shall be taking up another case. I shall be referring
to these other components including Rensis Likert system to the extent that they take
the discussion forward.
Survey feedback system has been discussed therefore, we shall move on to the system
4 management. The contribution of this is limited to Rensis Likert in fact, that is
what is called the Rensis Likert's scale - the Likert's scale. They found that managers were
concerned primarily with schedules, close supervision and production; goals are less
effective than managers who use a more participative style, as they develop healthy relationship
with employees while pursuing organizational goals.
Now, Rensis Likert did his research a long time ago the management knowledge which has
then surfaced has established a very simple principle. The principle is, you have to create
a system and design a system as per the level of employees which you have. Participative
style does not work everywhere therefore, it is the first responsibility of management
to assess the professional index of its people, because if you encourage participation beyond
the professional index, you are likely to cause trouble.
After the common games were held reports came that people in responsible positions were
seen picking up flowerpots and keeping them in the dicky of their car, does that need
a comment. Obviously, the person is worth some lacks otherwise he would not have the
car and what is he stealing 200 rupees worth of flowerpot that what is he show his class.
Now, for a community of this order I refuse to buy the slogan encourage participation
you will get better results. One of the problems of management decision making is it is full
of claptrap slogans, which is why if you are in a leadership role learn to know the type
of people you are dealing with. Only the system which integrates with the typology of people
that you are dealing with works. You give too much you are in trouble; you give too
little people will crib but then they will crib anyhow.
A leader should have the competency of doing what is good for the organization irrespective
and make it quite clear. If it is good enough for you, you are welcome to stay back we will
take care of you, but if it is not good enough for you, good luck and wish you all the best.
There are two qualities which are very important in the professional, the ability to create
a relationship where it is required and equally important is the ability to terminate a relationship
where it becomes necessary. Anyone who has crossed 15, 16; if he is a normal or she is
a normal person would have experienced several attractions or repulsions as you go through life, you are attracted
towards people who reject you. You reject people who you really should have
appreciated, because they are the ones who really had your good in their heart. By the
time you want to go back to them the relationship is over, they would not accept you back, but
at the end of the day because there is a heartbreak nobody stops falling in love the next time,
because there is always this lurking hope it will be better luck next time that better
luck never comes. It only varies from 2 minutes to 2 hours to
2 days to 2 weeks to 2 months to 2 years sometimes 20 years, but it is like mirror it does break
which is why you celebrate the few mythical stories of eternal love. You would not celebrate
what you are experiencing, would you. Remember, fantasy is a very important quality to stay
alive. If you did not fantasize, life can be brutal; if you did not believe in your
mythical powers, you see I can give a very simple example everyone lies why do you lie?
As I have explained earlier you lie because you think you are smarter than the next man.
Now by what low of averages can a group of 100 have a person who is smarter than everyone
else yet everyone will lie. I am explaining this by way of reputation to underscore a
very simple principle, fantasy is a very important ingredient of human life. People fantasize
all the time especially about their powers - look at me, the great me wow. You do not
know whether to read a book from front to back or back to front; you get a Urdu book
you open the front page, you get a Hindi book start reading it from the back because you
do not know the difference between Hindi or the Urdu, but you are quite determined you
are the smartest of the moll.
When you are dealing with that kind of a crowd a leader must have the ability to design a
system which meets the mental level of the crowd you are dealing. Rensis Likert committed
the era not withstanding his contributions and I will be sharing his contributions to
you shortly, again wanting to talk pretty; you know there is something wonderful of talking
about. You know participative style, empowerment, divesting of responsibility - the latest phrase
is - bottom of the pyramid - now they are all looking at the bottom of the pyramid.
When I went to Cairo I went next to pyramid, so my guide said sir, what is that I want
try to put my hands beneath; he said, sir what is it that you want; I said, I want to
look at the bottom of the pyramid, he laughed; he said you cannot raise it; I said, all the
management gurus are now wanting to cut the bottom of the pyramid. He said you are a management
man, are you and he looked at me with a sort of contempt which only management people can
evoke. There are institutions where they do not give
membership to a person who comes on the field of management; you are an artist you are a
welcome, you are a dancer you are a welcome, you are a singer you are a welcome, you are
a writer you are a welcome, you are a management man [FL].
Now, why find it necessary to break into Punjabi because that is the only language which are
believed brings reality to the floor as nothing else does. [FL] go there not here, this is
meant for normal human beings, you are a management man. Therefore, if you compare the fate of
management, 20, 10 post period to fate of management it was, as it was in 1990 there
is a whole world of difference. Today, if you survey management schools you
will find any number of seats which have not been filled because people have realized that
getting a management degree is not a substitute for competence. All professionals have their
crests and troughs all, what I am trying to say is, if you want to be a true management
man; management is a noble discipline, learn to formulate things realistically and not
in a fantasy mode, it does not work.
To get back to Rensis Likert, here is his typology of managerial styles; he talked of
operating characteristics, exploitative or the authoritative characteristics, benevolent
authoritative characteristics, consultative style and the participative style. In other
words suppose, you were to reduce what Rensis Likert said to 5 styles; operating characteristics
are listed here, this styles are listed here and then in each case you have got the various
permutations and combinations. For example, for operating characteristics, if you want
to look at motivation, how does a person who is exploitative and authoritative function?
He will use fears, threats, punishments and occasional rewards that is how he want to
motivate. If he is benevolent and authoritative how
will he motivate? Through rewards and some actual or potential punishment. Consultative
rewards, occasional punishment and some involvement. How do the participative style work where
motivations are concerned economic rewards on the system developed through participation.
If you look at the dimension of information flow, an exploitative authoritative person
believes in information flow downwards. A benevolent and authoritative person also believes
in downwards but not always mostly. A consultative person believes in information flow both down
and up. A participate is person believes information flow down, up and horizontal.
Decision making, this chart is so self-evident after having help you to see how to read it.
I want to leave this on the screen for a while so that you can read it and understand it
to yourself, because it is such a waste of time first to show a thing then to read it
out, again then to read it as if you are trying to explain as if you are talking to a bunch
of people who cannot understand maybe that is true, but at least you do not tell your
audience you do not understand. So, it is best to treat people as if they
understand and I leave the rest to you to read and understand. Of course, if you cannot
you can always write back and ask, I did not understand what you meant by decision making
for an exploitative an authoritative person. Then, you will get the answer it means, bulk
of decision is at the top of the organization. This will be repeated now, I understand that
is what frequently asked questions are all about; it was all there to begin with, but
because you were sleeping or you are so used to mummies care you want to be spoon-fed or
wife's care depending upon what point of life you are in, you want to be explained that
over and over again, so you are welcome. Jokes apart, the truth is, this is a typology
which I have not develop myself; this is straight from Rensis Likert and it is best to hear
Rensis Likert from Rensis Likert, you do not have to hear him through Vinayshil Gautam
because that always causes the refraction and refraction is not the best way of communication.
From the chart the question arises how the system 4 management is adopted? In the beginning,
the organization's current management style is assessed using a survey instrument called
the Profile of Organizational Characteristics. During the second phase, organizational members
receive feedback on the survey results and begin action planning activities.
Some examples of system 4 management implementation; if you recall the preceding session for each
intervention strategy I was at pains to explain to you the application. Go back to it you
will be able to comprehend what is being explained here in terms of application and implementation
of system 4. Harwood-Weldon incorporated a manufacturer
of sleepwear; 2 general motors plant at Doraville and Lakewood. The system requires time to
implement and even more time before improvement in productivity and efficiency can be documented.
In other words, no intervention can undo the natural process, you can speed it up a little
bit but what time it takes it will take. Best understood by another expression which
I am very happy to use to explain a point, you cannot run faster than the train you are
on. Apply it to principle, you cannot get a people to perform better than they are capable
off; you cannot motivate a person who is basically demotivated. The same thing applies to system
4 management implementation, things take their time in fact, best interventions work on together
with the time, they work with the system that do not try to beat the system.
The case of 2 GM plants at Doraville and Lakewood implementing the profile of organizational
characteristic showed Doraville close to system 4 and Lakewood close to system 2. Now, you
will have to go back to the Rensis Likert to recall what is system 4 and system 2. GM
decided to move Schotters, manager at Doraville to Lakewood to implement system 4. In other
words, he took a conscious decision that he was going to move it from exploitative authoritative
to participative.
The reverse could have been taken just as well I am going to move back from participative
to exploitative authoritative or I am going to move from participative to consultative
in this case, it is decided to move from exploitative to participative.
Solidified the Lakewood management team behind system 4 approach that encouraged innovative
thinking about management-employee relationships. Staff and supervisors received training on
increasing mutual understanding, trust and team work, go back to the Johari window this
will be clear to you. Remember, revealing yourself getting the other
person to reveal himself which is the block called as arena. It was not blind and I do
not want to repeat the Johari windows philosophy again; this is an open relationship where
you reveal yourself, you help others to reveal themselves.
Staff and supervisors receive training on increasing mutual understanding trust and
team work; this is great if it works. The trouble is it does not always work and that
is where the problem begins, staff and supervisors receive training in this and in this case,
it did not work.
Workers were kept informed on future products, facility changes and selected cost data. Management
provided them with a regular data on how labor costs compared with regular GM plants. In
other words, the principle which was used in this case was very simple. Take your stakeholders
into confidence, because let me tell you, in the ultimate analysis you have no choice
but to trust people like a lot of things in life, trust is a no-choice situation. It is
amazing how you have to put in exceptionally large extent of trust in people whom you have
never met and you will never meet like your engine train driver, you do not know whether
he is drunk, you do not know whether he has got his license through contacts or genuinely
but you place life at his disposal. The interesting thing about human nature is
you distrust the people that you know and you trust the people that you don't know,
not because you are greater you are very sensible but because you do not have a choice. So,
what you do if there are 1200 people riding a train each one does not go to the engine
driver and say pass through a breadth test proved to be that you are not drunk.
No, you do not function that way where the issues of scale are concerned, but learn as
you grow up as a manager to reconcile the contradictory behavior of human nature. If
I want to ask somebody for 100 rupees he will think 3 times; will he give it back or would
not he give it back; can I trust him, can I not trust him, what excuse should I make?
No, you see sir, I do not carry my wallet. I can see it bulging but you know he does
not carry his wallet you see sir, I have actually 40 rupees I just spend the 60 rupees for 100
rupees the fellow will pull 3 fast ones and he will happily sit in a train without knowing
even the name of the engine driver. Who said man is a logical animal? Most of
the things which he does cannot be explained at any level; let alone reason it cannot be
explained even at the level of emotion. There is no emotion involving trusting an unknown
person, yet you trust an unknown person for those of you who are sitting beneath a roof
each building carries a completion certificate and in a country where corruption is such
a fine art and so much time is spent discussing corruption how that fellow got the completion
certificate. But does anyone think of it while entering
a room how was the ceiling of this room certified as safe? Was he corrupt? Did he know x? Did
he know y? You do not do it. You will go mad if you work that way and yet, you will have
all sorts of anxieties about your brother, your father, your wife, who is she going around
with, who is my husband going around. If they are going around, you would not be able to
prevent it but never mind, you will drive yourself bonkers.
What I am saying the world belongs to the people who are well formed, you cannot help
people get over their anxieties which they want to nurse. Everyone pretends to be well
formed, the truth is everyone has a deep psychological problem the most normal thing is abnormality
of everyone. When you put together a group like, this in
an organization to be a leader, you have to understand how to deal with people differently.
So, all the 4 system of Rensis Likert are useful depending upon who you are dealing
with and what kind of group do you have at hand, but the principle remains trust others
and you will find that it moves. Workers were given detailed information about upcoming
changes to prepare for new models of production, workers participated in planning changes,
workers even advised engineers on redesigning of their work area.
Lakewood made significant progress but changes were gradual, there were some bottlenecks
therefore, to retain management and workers were costly - well nothing in life is cheap
of course, with the exception of cheap talk. If you want quality you pay for it; it takes
time for improved management practices to be adopted and implemented by managers and
additional time is needed to build trust and attitude that translated into improved performance,
we shall carry this forward shortly.