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My name's Conor Ibrahiem and I'm the artistic director of Arakan Creative.
Conor, were you born in the UK? I was.
Whereabouts? Here in Bradford.
Is that where you grew up? Back in '76. Grew up here, born and bred.
Gosh! So you've always lived in Bradford. Er, pretty much. I did move to Stockport for
about four years in the early noughties. Er my my, my kind of ambition was to get to London.
At that stage I was very much focussed on acting, er, but I did a swift U-turn and came
back in 2005. So you got as far as Stockport?
Got as far as Stockport. Better than most. Hehehe. The train ticket ran out?
Not quite. I got a job and met I my future wife. So I had a strong reasons to return.
Yeah, absolutely. And you say you, wanted to work as an actor. You've been involved
in, theatre for quite a while, haven't you? Yeah, em I studied em, performing arts in
college, local college, from '97 to '99 and then, er, my my main ambition was to become
an actor and I I kind of launched myself into that. For a good ten years I gave it, my best
shot. So yeah, my experience ranges from theatre to TV to short films etc.
Yeah. And, could, would you mind telling us, em, how you became inspired to participate
in theatre? It wasn't just theatre. It was the world of
performance. My inspiration was Christopher Reeve. Er, Superman. Every Christmas I would
sit in my little sledge in the living room and watch 'Superman' come on TV and I was
in awe and inspired by this, world where man could fly. Tsk. So that's where the kind of,
the seeds were sown. And I thought myself as a five-year old I've got options here.
I can grow up and be something like a policeman, an astronaut, secret agent or an actor but
if you're an actor, you can do all of them. So I was thinking along those levels at five
so that's what inspired me to become an actor and then by default, as an actor, you kind
of, you you you kind of tread into different, areas of performance. As I said theatre, film
and and radio and what have you. But theatre, em, why did that stick? I suppose because
it was one of the easiest options I could go into to, sustain myself, as a professional
and also in terms of financially as well. So what inspired you was Christopher Reeves.
Initially, yeah. As as I kind of, er, as I grew older and I matured, I realised as an
actor, I was getting, specific - well, I was going for specific roles which were perpetuating
a stereotype. Terrorist, taxi driver you know, doctor. I played a doctor about three or four
times. Dad would be proud, bless him. Em, so you know I kind of ticked some boxes in
that respect. But, alongside all that, I was becoming more religious. It started in 2001,
around the time of 9/11, although 9/11 had no impact upon my decision. I just felt this,
natural kind of drawing toward Islam, and I thought may be there is a way to combine
the two 'cause I had this er, burning question? Can I perform? Is it halal? Is it permitted,
permitted? Is it forbidden. Er, I did my my research. It is, providing you, you know,
you stick to certain kind of loose, you know, some boundaries and and, the loose kind of
rules are really, you know, nothing illicit and nothing depicting history which is, inaccurate.
I was fine with that. No problem. Em, so in 2005 I went to Haj. I was blessed with the,
opportunity to go to Haj and em, I think it was an inevitable collision course where my
arts and my religion were going to cross over, and the idea for Arakan was born shortly after
that. But it was just an idea. And the more I thought about it, and the more I thought
about it, I thought, yah. This is probably one of the easiest things to get into. You
know, 'cause making films costs a lot of money, whereas theatre can be er more achievable,
and I've got lots of experience as a performer. I just need the skills to be the more business
minded approa, approach to it. Em, and that's really how, the the idea of Arakan was born.
And there's only one, in, one other company in the UK that specializes in this kind of
work. So I thought well, yah, it's about time another one opened. It's been a good ten years
since that first one opened. And there's nothing in the north. So, that's really my reasoning
behind it and er, you know, then here we are today.
That's quite fascinating. It seems as though you've had quite a varied, journey already
Yah. Yeah? In the, initially, you were working
as a jobbing actor. Sure.
And then later made your own, em, decision and made your own direction?
Have you have to. You you got no choice really. As as, no matter what profession you are in
in terms of, a freelancer, you have to make a decision at some point, once, especially
if you get married or you know, you have a family. Can you sustain yourself. Well, realistically
you can't. So the bes and sort of you know, the worst case scenario you take a job in
job in MacDonald's. The best case scenario is you still sustain a finger in the pie of
what you love doing, and make a living from it, and I'm blessed to be in that second example.
Hm hm. How did that, journey vary though from being a jobbing actor to later on you're saying
that, you wanted to set up a company Arakan, to fit in with your religious ideals.
Em, different, yeah, was you know was naturally, a whole new ball, ballpark in some ways because
you are seeing things from the kind of holistic point of view. An actor is the end result,
of a massive, brief before, pre-production process. And I'm, I'm curious by nature. You
know, when I was a kid I always wondered how plugs worked. I always wondered how the robot
worked. So, I suppose inevitably I was going to wonder, how does the world of performance
and arts work. And that curiosity was, you know, intriguing, and the more I discovered
the more I thought, I can have a go at that. I'm I'm fairly certain I can do an OK job.
And I continued with that. And, because I'd been out of the "work" loop, for a good ten
fifteen years, you know the nine to five thing, I itch for it now. I I yearn for it. I love
it. My wife hates me for it but I love it. Em, maybe because I did, you know, I've been
out of that kind of, I've not become bored of it because I never did it. So I now embrace
it. Em, but I also love my work. So, it's I don't need hobbies. This is, this is what
I do. And, do you miss being an actor?
Yah. It's my first passion. It's my first love. I still do a little bit, but, you know,
percentages wise, you're talking ten percent out of ninety percent of my time nowadays
is only is, is in acting. People ask me, well, just write yourself a part, you know, you're
writing, directing your own stuff. Yah, I could do that, but that's easy. I don't feel
like I would have earned it in the same way I would have done for a casting.
Yah. Casting is, you know, it's it's all, fulfilling
when you go aginst fifty or a hundred actors and you get the part. You don't get that when
you write your own stuff. I could do in the future. But writing and directing is enough,
as well as driving the van and loading the set. It, I won't have time to learn lines.
So, I miss it but, I'm very happy, very happy, I never thought I would be, doing this, er,
not just acting, I'm very happy doing this. What does this offer you acting doesn't.
More than a clap and a smile from the audience. It gives me something I never thought possible
and that's changing minds. Even if it's one. You know, some of the feedback forms I read,
it overwhelms me. I think, crickey, that that's how much impact I've had in an in one hour
of, performance. I could never have done that, well, probably not have done that as an actor,
especially to that level. And I think that's what really, that's what really drives me
now, is is, leaving this world when I when I you know when God calls me. And He'll say
well, what impact have you had. I can say I can hand on heart say, well I've done my
best and I've changed a couple of opinions you know that's an amazing thing that you
can't buy. You've got to earn that. Sincerely earn that.
Have you ever done anything apart from working in theatre, for a living.
Yeah. Started, my first job a cleaner in Asda. Actually I had two first jobs. And the second
one was, er, working in a restaurant. Have to tick that box. Er, local restaurant chain,
and em, I you know, I very much enjoyed it. It was it was very hard. Er, I think I jumped
in the deep end too much. I was doing my night shift, at the local restaurant, and then,
I had to get up at six in the morning, to go and do cleaning at Asda, so I didn't have
much sleep. Sometimes I just slept through it, you know. But those were my first jobs.
Em, you know, and it was fine, you know. And I worked in a call centre. Em...what else
have I done. Em, I think that's it, to be honest. Em, I worked in a takeaway after that
as well. Em, but, acting was always that, you know that kind of main focus and er, yah.
What does, being British South Asian mean to you?
...I don't think about it much. Em, yes, it's part of who I am. I am British. I am South
Asian. But I'm I'm too busy with work to think about...the the in-depthness of, where I'm
from. Obviously it relates very closely to my work. I think I'm unconsciously competent
in that area now. I know it. People who are not and are learning that, tend to focus on
it more. And that's fine. I don't mind that. I don't mind the curiosity. Em, but I think
sometimes you can *** on about it too much. We are what we are, you know. Em, just take
me as you find me. Easier said than done, yes, I know. Em, but what does it mean to
me if I really have to think about it. If I go into my feminine mode and think deep.
Em, it means being part of something. It means belonging. It means something I can call home.
Familiarity is something I think humans need. You can feel lost without it. Even if I was
on my own, I have no father, mother, wife, anything. At least I know I've got something
that's, you can't take away from me. It can't die. It It's there. Em, so for me, it's about
a familiarity I suppose, one of the key words. A sense of belonging. Em, but you're part
of a wider family. And I feel blessed to be part of both worlds. Literally.
British and South Asian you mean. Absolutely yah. I feel in, unique in some
respects. That I'm able to experience both, take the best of both. Try and work on the
bad bits of both. And be a testament and example to those, well look, my parents, you know,
got together despite the differences and we're talking the 60s and 70s here. You know, back
in those days, it was even more, harder. Think East is East is the kind of thing I'm talking
about. It's not... And your parents are from different, faiths.
Yah. Dad was, dad was from em, Kashmir, Pakistan. My mother's from Wakefield. English. You know,
em, and I, if I a again if if two people can overcome the differences, and the challenges
there were greater then than they are now in some ways, em, why can't the rest, I'm
not saying we all get married, but, you know, we can have some mutual respect for each other.
Em, so yah, I feel, lucky in in, in in kind of, with my genetic make-up I suppose.
Hehe, yeah. So, connecting that with your work then. Do you characterize your work,
any part of it at all as British South Asian? One element yes. The, the hook or the primary
kind of angle if you like, that we approach, is Islamic theatre. Don't take that at face
value though. Islamic in a sense yes, we look at stories within the Islamic world.
So this is the work you do with Arakan. Absolutely. I set it up I mean that's pretty
much, if anyone asks me what I do, I say, depending on whose asking, well I say I run
a theatre company. Em, and if they say well what type of work I say it's Islamic theatre.
By that I mean it's stories in a in a historical context, from the Islamic world, or modern
day issues to do with Muslims. Extremism, hijab, you know, forced marriages, whatever.
But it's wider than that. Islamic in it's ethos. If you open the website, it says something
along the lines of, i's been a while since I wrote in now, but em, family friendly. It's
clean entertainment. And it starts spreading truth. That's what Islam is. Not just a part
of, what Islam is. So it's about, a a form of entertainment which is, telling the truth
as it is, being respectful, not excluding anybody, and, being "halal". 'Cause, there
is, a massive misconception. To an extent, some of it is true, where western media and
arts is saturated with, sexualisation and bad language, and er, immoral behavior, and
that intent can potentially influence, the audience. That's another thing I'm trying
to battle against. In my small way. That you ca, we can, you know, we can produce entertainment
without going down those, cheap routes. Let us call it cheap. Em, and I'm glad in some
ways I never made it as an actor, 'cause then they would have been very hard decisions to
walk away from. Mm.
You know, here's a job. Here's a million dollars. You are gonna go and kiss so and so. You going
to start effing and blinding at scarface. Sss, damn, I would have been pulled in different
directions. And I have had moments of that, where I, there have been parts when they've
asked me to do x, y and z. And I thought, god, what am I supposed to do here. So em,
yah, that's the how I suppose I would characterise the the primary, yeah, but South Asian work
is a part of that. Because I'm from that background. It influences Islamic work you are doing,
is that what you re saying? Sorry, I don't understand that.
Er, the South Asian work influences the Islamic theatre...
Em, I wouldn't say it influenced particularly. It's just whenever there's an issue that presents
itself, you know in the ether, that's something that will capture my attention, I think, how
can I try and address that issue, through the arts. I wouldn't say one particularly
informs the other. I would say that they are particularly entangled.
Of course. And there's a lot of mis misconceptions, still,
to this day, which is, it beggars belief, you know. We can put a man on the moon. We
can't sort this obvious stuff out? It just er... Anyway, if it wasn't for that then,
with the likes of people like myself wouldn't have something to do so, you know. Em, it's
so yeah, I I, sometimes one can inform the other, But it doesn't really direct me. It's
just if there's an issue, I'll try and address that.
So does, is your work particularly associated with the Muslim South Asian community then.
Yah. Because I'm Muslim South Asian. So I'm more familiar, more, you know, em em, I'm
the expert of my own experiences. And and that's what my experiences are. But that's
not to say I wouldn't delve into, or haven't delved into issues that relate to the wider
Muslim population. For example, hijab. Hm hm.
For example, the element of extremism. For example, mental health, whatever. Because,
baseline, we are all human, regardless of how we are dressed up afterwards, as we grow
up. Hm hm.
The names we are given, the colour of our skin and the clothes we buy, whatever. Baseline,
all humans laugh and cry. And they bleed and they want the best for their families unless
they're, you know, unless they're, evil by nature, and then, that's a different story.
But, you know, er...we all have, em, those common fac factors and Arakan does very much
include work from other areas. It's not, not a primary focus that's all.
Do you think, considering British South Asian theatre then, you know, however you want to
interpret that, do you think it's still useful to consider it as a distinct genre?
Yeah. Er absolutely. You, you know, people from a certain cultural background or faith
have a particular name. And there's a name for a reason. It's to distinguish and identify,
or it can be to, prejudice, Depends who is, you know, pulling the strings. For me it's
to identify. If I just class myself as a theatre company, and someone wants a specialist service
to cater for a said group, and how on earth are they going to find me. You need, in a
positive way, you need labeling to an extent. So it's very much relevant. It instantly,
tells the mind, it categorises, and it hones down what you are looking for. That's the
way, that's that's my kind of, er, answer to that to be honest.
And, you know, having worked quite extensively with a range of companies in your time, em,
do you feel as though, amongst the various British South Asian theatremakers, the British
South Asian theatre practitioners, do you feel there is a common thread, between them
in terms of stories and aesthetics of it, or the audiences they are trying to reach?
There's bound to be. Em, and there is. And the wonderful thing is there's so many differences
as well which, I suppose the outsider might think wow, really? You know, because within,
the South Asian context, and the Muslim context, you've got so many variables of castes and
castes, sorry, obviously the, you know, the ***'a Wahabi Sunni thing and you know, the
er, the religious affiliations, and parts of the world, geography, dance, is something
that, one Asian group might do what we don't, singing is something else they may do, we
don't. So, you know, the, there's, there's a national common thread. Common language
tends to be the the one of the most things, and obviously, some, similar issues that are
addressed as well. But thee are so many variables, which is, makes it more, more more interesting.
But it's nice to have a commonality. You know, it's, it's again it goes back to being, that
having the familiarity as people, we I think we need that.
Coming back to your own artistic journey then. Em, what was the reaction of your, friends
and family initially when you decide, this is what you were going to do with your life.
17:19 CI: Well, my father passed away when I was twelve. Now he had certain ambitions
for me, before he passed on, and he, talked to me and, er, from what I can remember you
know, in particular he wanted me to go into law or doctoring, and the kind of, in some
ways, stereotypical, dreams. Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong
with being a doctor or a lawyer. Er, em, but em, for me...I was never scared of, never
worried about, perception in that respect. Because I was born different. So my kind of
map of being different was already laid out be, before I was, I I had no decision in that.
And I was already viewed as, as different. You now I, sometimes I'd get, an Asian kid
calling me a White B-word, or I'd get the opposite, and I'd laugh at it. I think this
was ridiculous. Where am I supposed to sit? So I wasn't scared about what people would
think of me, and I did get the odd frown. My aunty used to say, come on, give up, get
a real job. That's fine. I appreciate it, you know. I know you mean well, but I love
what I do. Overall, I think I've been lucky in some respects. I think if I was if I was,
if I was female, and I wanted to go into this, I'd probably find a bit more of a problem.
Hm hm. Not exclusively. But to an extent, I think
there would have been more, been more of a problem. But no, em, I think I've been lucky
in the sense that I've been generally encouraged, em, especially when you start yielding results.
You tend to find people, tend to be more friendly then they, initially were. And then you can
start sieving through who the genuine were, genuine people are and who are not. But I,
I you know, I take note of these things. And for me the genuine ones were there from the
beginning. Were always encouraging. Even if they said look, give it up. Do something else.
They didn't mean ill toward me. They were just concerned about my welfare and my future.
So I think I've been lucky. In terms of the reception, my I was always hesitant about
opening Arakan, and specializing in Islamic theatre simply because I didn't know what
people would think. It's seldom ben done. And it's the first one in the North. So, even
now people think, wow, Islamic theatre, how does that work. And so people are always a
bit conscious. OK...em, can my kids come and watch it. Are you going to portray Islam in
this way or this way. You know, I'm getting this, this kind of er, religious affiliation,
trying to pull me in one direction or the other one. I'll try to be neutral as possible.
I say no, I'm just trying, you know, do justice to the Koran and and portray it as, as best
as I can. So em, but thankfully, my my affairs have been, you know, not you know, nothing's
proved to be problematic. You know, I've not had any death threats or anything anything
silly of that. I've had the odd comment which, suggests I do something a bit different. But
that's it. And then, and much I've been very lucky in that, overall it's been very welcoming.
People encourage and they yearn for more but I can only do so much. But I know I'm on,
I'm on a positive footing with the general, Muslim, South Asian community, and it's very
hard, another for another reason is not just because the Islamic element, it's because
of the likes of TV programmes that perpetuate the stereotype, and as soon as they hear you
are involved with the "arts' or the media, that they get on the back foot, oh OK, so
you are going to portray us as like, no, I'm not. I even had to put a disclaimer in our
recent production which I'm going to talk about. That we are not portraying the Prophet.
Why did I do that? It's because of the bloody YouTube video last year from America. Why
did I have to do that? I shouldn't have to do that. I shouldn't apologise for the thing
I know I'm not doing wrong. But I felt I had to just to appease, the question marks out
there. And I don't blame them. I don't honestly. Well I hate the status quo. But fine. Sometimes
you've gotta do things in business and work, that you're not, particularly happy with,
but, it's for the wider good. So as long as I, you know, I'm transparent and people see
the trust is there, I have nothing to worry about.
Do you feel as though, there's ever been any, this is a question being posed, that, was
there any, trauma, em, within you artistic journey so far that you've been able to transform
through your work into positivity? 20:20 CI: Personal or business? Or both? Em...kind
of. Going on the personal bit first. Em, hm...in my upbringing, em, especially when my father
passed away there was a lot of issues around money. Tsk, that's defined how I operate as
a, you know in my terms of my business ethic. I'll always do my best to be straight down
the road. The money, obviously, the stitch of money goes through every seam of life.
That informs very much how I operate as a businessman. I'll always make sure I pay people,
as soon as possible, and what they are owed. That's because I've had a bad experience with
money. It was a div a family divider. Just, that that's all you need to know in that respect.
A family divider. And it can control you, if you don't control it. That's one thing.
Tsk, I've heard stories in my present day, from a close family member who works in a
field which is traumatic day in day out. And that leads me to very much, want to div, er
work on issues within the South Asian community. And we have, we done a production a few years
ago actually, about domestic violence, within South Asian women. Tsk, em, we had some very
good feedback actually. It was, we were very lucky, that we had such a receptive audience.
Some of the comments were, overwhelming. I referred to something like that earlier. I
can elaborate if you wish. But, yah, there is definitely from a personal perspective,
some, a lot of things do kind of, interfere, not interfere. Impact or influence. Inform
my direction. Again, whatever pops up as a problem, I'll try and remedy. Try. Professionally,
yeah. You have minor blips, but I wouldn't sug I wouldn't say that anything major happen,
that's affected me in any big way. Em, again, I suppose I'm blessed in that respect. And
if, god forbid, anything did happen in a major way and obviously I'd stop, you know, pause
the button and and access the situation and move forward in the best possible way. It
wouldn't scare me away because I know I'm not doing the wrong thing. I know in my heart,
em, so, you know, an an, God will test me and that's, and I'm expecting that. So, I'm
just kind of waiting for the next, punch as it were.
Yah. You've, you've got quite an interesting transnational experience in, your background
as well, in the sense that your father comes from Kashmir.
Mm. Em, how does that, how do you feel that informs
your identity in the person that you are today. It doesn't have a massive impact, in the sense
that I've never been there. I've never been to Pakistan or Kashmir. Em, but I'm aware
of the issues that exist that have been there for many years. And looking at Pakistan in
in a wider context, I'd be a liar if I didn't say it affected me in the sense that, I'm
very saddened to know that, education is so poor and yet corruption is so high, em, in
in the in the country my father, was born, was raised and came from. You know, I never
saw those attributes in him. I'm not saying he was perfect. But, I know he wanted the
best for his son, and those around him. So, the Kashmiri or the Pakistani I mean, I'd
love to go, I I keep praying, I hope that I can have a positive in influence on the
country. Even if it's on one person or or a child or something. It's a strange thing
to have a sense of belonging to somewhere you have never been. I don't know, maybe it's
because you lack that, my father has been gone many years now, twenty odd years, so
I think when you are distanced from something you want so badly, you start looking for anything,
any kind of connection to it. Mm.
Em, and for me, one of the biggest connections would be, where I was born and bred. So, tsk,
em, perhaps my relationship with Kashmir and Pakistan will, will enhance some, maybe a
bridge will be born through my work. Who knows. Hm hm.
And if it does, I'd, I I'd welcome it and embrace it and try to make the most of it.
Of course. Going back to your work again though, what audiences are you hoping to reach with
your work. I think you ran through this a little bit but...
Primarily Muslim. Don't apologise for that. Hm hm.
And why should I. Because, pantos cater for a said audience, usually school children or
families. Particular types of plays, Shakespeare, applies to a certain type of audience. And
we appeal to a certain type of audience. Someone I worked with a few years ago, wanted to stop
working with us, because we were just focusing on Muslims. Well that person obviously was
a bit blinded because they didn't realise that it wasn't just Muslims. We never say
on our posters, just Muslims are allowed in. That's ridiculous. But we are not going to
apologise for providing them with a story they can relate to, but they are all human
stories. Of struggle, and pain, and happiness, that we as humans can all relate to. So, it's
open to everyone. But the primary focus yes is Muslims. By and large because they have
nothing to relate to in theatre. Or very seldom, things. And when theatre companies do do something,
South Asian or Muslim related, it's a one off. We are continuous. And so, you know,
why not. You know, we're we're just like the corner shop providing South Asian food or
Islamic food to those who need to eat that food. But we, you know, we welcome Bernard,
and Susan, or Lukas from Poland. Fine. Come in. Welcome. Have a have a taste of it. But
yah, that's our primary kind of audience. And is it particularly for the audience and
community in Bradford. Is it particularly the South Asian Muslim community?
Er, yeah well yeah, simply by default because we are based here. But we have attracted people
from farther afield and if we are er fortunate to go outside the district of Bradford, then
yeah, we kind of latch on to that contingent of the local society. Em, and, yeah, that
is the short answer really. And who are the audiences that you've been
getting. So the, is asked, if the, previous question is about the audiences you'd like
to get, who are the actual audiences... Pretty much the ones we aim for. We just wish
there's more numbers, 'cause bearing in mind, it's still a relatively new field, or new
concept is Muslim theatre, South Asian theatre. Hm hm.
Er, especially about Muslim you know, more focus on the Muslim element. Em, so you need
a bit of that trust with them. Right now, the entertainment options for said group are
thus. Before you, pumping their volume too high in their cars, em, weddings, em, books,
seldom anything really to do with theatre. So we need to build up that and that's fine
because the journey has to start somewhere. So I hope that in time the name will, em,
carry amount of, cache or trust, that people automatically oh, I I know what to expect.
I know the brand. We'll go there, and numbers will spread. And we do we do manage to latch
on to those we target. It's just about numbers really. Yeah.
Hm hm. How do you feel, in your work, you're reflecting the everyday lives of, the people
who come to see your plays. Sorry. Re rephrase that?
In your work, how do you feel you're reflecting the everyday lives of the people...
Oh I see. Em, as accurately as I as I think, em, as possible really. I mean, I do a lot
you know, research before hand. If it's if it's a historical, then you you can't really,
well you can't, you can't, develop a time machine and go back to know exactly if you're
that pottering it accurately but, one thing is a constant that's we're all human. And
we will react in a certain way to certain situations. So as as as far as the human reaction
and and the situation is concerned, I'm human too. You know, we always forget that, it's
us and them. It's not. I'm an audience member as well. I I I can be moved by certain things.
I'm just privileged to be in a situation to be one of those who can influence, to an extent.
So I like to think I'm and I and I, again, from the feedback we've had, you know, we've
had stuff like, you know, that that accurately portrays, you know, what we've been through,
what experience, what we're feeling, that's not quite what I feel, but does it make it
someone else does. You can't tick all, you can't, please everyone. But by and large,
our you know, the the percentage is vastly on the scale of we, we get it right. And that's
really encouraging though, otherwise I'd probably just shut up shop.
Yah. One of the questions asked here is, relating to rural communities, how they feel, disconnected
to theatre. What do you think about that. Rural, from a South Asian or Muslim context.
Or generic. Er, within a British context.
Em...yah. Well, what do you expect? I mean if you're rural, you you can't access every
single service. Whether they're disconnected, or whether they care is you know, is another
matter. If they have concerns, I'm sure they'll make the effort to go to a Northern town.
You know, we're based in Keighley, West Yorkshire. And literally, if you look, we've got a 360
degree view, of, countryside. And there's plenty of rural areas around here. But there
are local theatres. It's not very far. If there is a disconnect, I'm not suggesting
that we don't remedy that, or try to remedy the problem. There are ways around it and
it's not. I wouldn't say it's the biggest issue in the world, you know. People can tour.
People can actually do site-specific theatre. They can hire out houses, halls, hell do open
air, so, I think it's just a case of, if they want it bad enough, we'll provide.
Hm. Or even if there isn't a want, we just come
in and provide that, interest or that new hobby or that interest if you like. I don't
see it as a major problem. If there's a if there's a shortage of it, we'll try our best
to to try and remedy that. Of course. Em, how would you say, since you
created Arakan, or even, perhaps, since you've been involved in theatre, that your work has
evolved over time. So yeah, let's take it back actually and let's, address this question
from your, career, individually, which will include Arakan and previous to it. How would
you say your work has evolved over time? Particularly in the context of changing South Asian experience,
in the UK. Er, it's bound to evolve. We are organic.
We feel...we feel the atmosphere that's out there, you know. We smell the air and it does
naturally inform. And if you don't go with the changes and roll with the punches then...
What do you think the changes have been? For ourselves, obviously extremism high you
know, is way up there. And that has informed, to an extent, well, fo now, to a large extent
actually, the kind of work that we, that we produce but also we feel compelled to apply
funding for. To survive, obviously. But also because, well, we feel an obligation to a
broa, a pro, approach that problem, and try and deal with it in the best possible way
otherwise it might be left to someone else's devices and I don't know who that person or
group would be. So we've done two projects, which, makes up, fifty percent if you like,
or near enough of our work output in three and the half years of existing. First of all,
literally as the name says, Extremism, which was the tail end of the preferred agenda.
Em, I had the idea to do a play on extremism before the opportunity of funding came along,
so that idea was, already alive. I just didn't have the means to realize it. When it came
along, I embraced it and thankfully, it was no one pulling my strings. No one saying,
do this do this. None of that. I was very very lucky, in the person I was dealing with
at the Council, was saying, look, I trust you. I'll know you'll do the right thing.
Go for it. Basically. So I was very fortunate. Em, I'm not saying that, er, I dislike working
in that kind of, in that way where if you to kind of, move with, the times as it were.
The times are what they are. I just wish it was happier sometimes. I wish I wish there
was a case of that. There wasn't enough comedy in the world and we are compelled, under a
"preventive" agenda, to cre create more comedy. You know, but that's not the way it is, is
it? However, we do want to do more comedy. We've done no comedy so far and anything lighter.
We do want to do that and we hope to build enough reserves to do that. But the second
project, and the kind of, which relates to extremism to an extent, is, Islamophobia.
The project funding came around because the er, the foundation we applied to, in their
wisdom, realized, there was a big problem. So they put out a tender. They weren't looking
for specifically theatre. Just any group or organization which could try and tackle this
problem, in a West Yorkshire context. So we felt compelled to apply. We felt we were well
placed. We felt we knew the issues. And we felt we're probably one of the few organisations
that could bring an artistic approach to their, to their ourcomes. E were blessed, by God's
grace, we were blessed to get that, funding for three years. And we're going to approach
them. I wish I could *** on a, a different drum, sometimes. Sure, you know. Er, you become
well versed in certain areas, but like anything you know, if you keep eating potatoes, you
are going to throw up at some point. You want some variety in that meal. And if no one is
presenting that, then we've got to start creating it, and I think I've developed a taste for
just entrepreneurial if you like. Because if nothing happens for you, what do you do?
You just sit and moan about it or you go and do something about it. Go and do something
about it. Or try at least. At least you said you tried. So I know that I, if if no one
is presenting those comedy, er, opportunities, then I'll damn well just try and create me
own. Even if it is a small production at first and build up that, that arm of the company.
So we, yeah, a lot of our work is informed, er, but we hope that will change and we know
we can start doing our own, our own thinking and our owe our own output as well.
So given that, given that, changing South Asian culture in the UK, em, and also, in
reflected in your art work, where do you generally feel the state of, the theatre is today? Quite
a big question? Em, in terms, overlay that with the, the status
quo of the British cul, the, South Asian culture. Yah.
How do I feel theatre is. Em, tsk...hm, it is a big question. Tsk. Put it this way. Tsk.
If you've got a problem in your community, the last thing you gonna think about is theatre,
with respect. And that's me saying it. And that could potentially just shoot meself in
the foot by distance, but let's be realistic, 'cause again, I'm part of the community as
well. People would rather have a community town hall meeting with a with an MP, and talk
about real issues, by and large. Because that's where the act, that's where things happen
for real. Theatre can help inform policy and help change thinking. And I am a great advocate
and I do believe in this sincerely. But ultimately, if you want to just, cut to the chase and
get it done quicker, 'casue theatre could take many many months of preparation, whereas
a meeting you can organize in a few weeks, and action can be quicker if they can get
their finger out and get it done. And no, you know, red tape and stuff. So I think it
has a place, absolutely. Em, but it's on, it's on, it's only going to be picked up when
people are relaxed enough to want and go and see it. It's always going to be there and
and, we're creating a need in some ways for the for the South Asian Muslim context. We
are creating a need. And often they realize they actually, do we do we need, yah, we do
need entertainment. Of course we do. We need to relax. We can't be working 24/7. So there's
always a need for it there. Sometimes it peaks. Sometimes it dies done. But there's always
you know that basic need, or, relaxation or entertainment.
And, with that basic need of relaxation and entertainment, how do you feel the industry
is faring. How do you feel... Er theatre?
Yeah. In general, oh, poorly, unfortunately, simply
because of funding. A lot of good organisations have gone by the wayside, which is a crime.
Purely and simple. Some organisations get money for what? For pushing paper and lip
service. And other organisations are doing genuine work and I witnessed it myself. And
they are not getting the funding. So something's very wrong. Something's very wrong. And it's
not so much down to the people applying for the funding. It's the idiot decision makers
and I can say that because no one funds me. Right? I'll take it back if I ever go to the
Arts Council or the likes of those. But some of the decisions are ludicrous. It just doesn't
make any sense. So there's more going on there. It's co, we've all got common sense, by and
large. And if something doesn't fit right, something else is going on. And I'd like to
know what the politics is behind certain decisions. Sometimes it's someone's pet hate. Don't like
that company. Sod it. Do you realize the impact you're having? Well good luck to them. They
rea rea reap what they sow as far as I'm concerned. But, I suppose. Hm, the more I think about
it, the more I want to be in the position of that kind of control. Not to say that I
would love reveling in power or control, but the ability to do good. It's just an overwhelming,
em, idea, a feeling, a privilege. The new prince that was born recently. Is that debate
of whether, people should be given power and respect, or they should earn it. Well, I think,
the there is nothing wrong with, people ex, expecting, people are going to expect a respect,
that's fine, but he's still got to earn it, you know. And for me, bottom line, if there
is no kind of hierarchy in place and we are all democratic across the world, I'd be very
much in favour of, getting in a place because of your merits alone. Not because of who you
know. Not because of your, er, narcissistic kind of, traits or whatever. It's got to be
because of who you are and what you believe in, if it's right. So em, the status overall,
it would be the same forever, unfortunately, because it's bad people out there, and that
ain't going to change. So I'm not I'm not going to be idealistic, aw, it's gonna all
stop one day and, all the right companies will get the funding and all the bad ones
weren't. No. So my moan will continue. Hopefully less so.
Yeah. Given that, you know, the British South Asian theatre experience, the British South
Asian theatre cultural experience is quite varied, em, and you've definitely, you know,
working within, a, a section of that variety, given that it is so varied. Do you feel that
generally British South Asian theatre accurately reflects the experience...
Naw. Does it does it chuff. No no no no. It doesn't reflect it. No, I've just said, I
said before, it's so varied, in language, in custom, in ide ideology, in in belief.
To lump it under I I can see why. It's easier, you know. If you said, em Gujerati theatre
company, or Kashmiri theatre company, and within that you have the Jat Clan, all this
business. Yeah, you've got a lot more, you know, kind of, titles to tick off. I can understand
why they do it but it does not accurate accurately reflect...
Can understand why who does what? Well the the the the way, the the reason the
name has come into being. Oh I see.
You know, er, I understand that, you know. South Asia, it covers such a vast, you know,
area. But it's the same as anything else, like for example, you say American cars. Well,
what are you talking about. Mustangs, Fords, you know, Chevvies? Em, so I understand that
there is a need for that but I think there should also be, almost on that form where
they ask you a question about ethnicity. They should break it down as well. What kind of
British theatre are you do er British Asian theatre are you doing? What's your speciality?
I never get that. So, you know, it needs to be a bit more, thought through and and dug
a bit deeper. Mm.
That's all it needs. Some extra bolt-ons if you like.
Mm. So you, do you perhaps feel the term is redundant then?
No. I think it just needs to evolve. Right.
Yah. Needs to change with the times. Em, and so is that what you do to make it
more relevant? Is to is to have it, acknowledge the differences within the community?
CI: I don't do it because I wanna make the title different. I do it because I want I
I the passion's there. I think by default, you will start changing names anyway, it can
be a you know, bottom to top or top end, er, top bottom approach. Er for me, sometimes
again if you if you wait for things to happen sometimes they don't happen. So if you don't
start making those motions. For example, tsk, you know laws coming into being generally
speaking, these days, because we've got pretty much all every law covered. It's because there
is a big gap in the market if you like, And, there, I'm just trying to think any anything
recent, some of the new laws, nothing comes to mind but basically, if something goes very
very wrong in society, the bankers for example, or you know, press regulation there you go...it's
reactionary, so therefore laws come or near enough laws sometimes, on the back of that.
So, tsk, I would say we are very much of that kind of, approach. We will keep doing what
we are doing, and perhaps eventually, a name will come along to suit what we do. Em, but
I'm not going to wait around for another title. I'm going to do what I do. Provided the name
is, is respectful and accurate enough, I'm happy with it.
Taking British South Asian theatre the way it is today though, what do you feel are it's
main challenges, what do you think it needs to improve. Is it just about the name?
No, no no. Not just the name. You have to have the right people on board. Organisations
are made of people. Not equipment, desks and computers. It's about people. And it's real
but do you know what? That's not that's not really fair. It should, that's across the
board. It's not just British Asian theatre. It's any organization. That, British British
Asian theatre is, in many ways the same as any organization will apply. It's a service
or a product being delivered by people. And, if it is to survive, all it needs to be is
sincere and honest. That's all it needs. It's not it's not rocket science. Obviously we're
a small minority in that respect. In the in the theatre world. Em, it does need to keep
evolving and keep changing, em, in terms of the output. To reflect society otherwise it's
not relevant. No it's no harm in going historical now and again, fine. We should never forget
where we came from. But it needs to be always relevant. And it shouldn't just be, about
British Asian issues as well. It should be about how I'm perceived by others. So they
did, for example if, X Y and Z the, Asian theatre company did a play, about a South
Asian issue, why not cast it full of White people, and do it from pers pers perspectives
alone. How I perceive by the other. Still British Asian, because the issues are very
much in there. So I've, people start thinking, I'm sure people do. I'm I could be wrong.
I've not researched it but, if there was projects along, those lines as well, then that's a
great sign of evolving. Certainly. Em, and that's what your recommendation
would be. Yah, absolutely. Don't forget your neighbours,
is basic, you know. It's OK focusing on ourselves. Listen, the government doesn't ve, the government,
their laws and the taxes and all all the services they provide are for everybody. They're not
just for the elite. So you have to think in a in a neighbouring, human context. Because
that's the way we, that's the that's the planet we live in. You ha and and us to reflect,
to an extent, em, within, a lot of organisations and in, in in theatre as well because theatre
is a reflection of life. You know that and and it, that's, we are, you know, we are part
of, a variety of, er, cultures and religions. Sure. Conor, it's been wonderful speaking
to you so far already. I loved your honesty. Thank you very much for that. Would you mind
ending by telling us about one of, or any particular works of yours that hold the most
importance for you. All my children are precious. It's difficult,
it's difficult. Em...two, if I may pick two. I'll be brief. First one is a first project.
Tsk, It's a mental health production. It was a comment said by one of the Asian chaps.
What was it called? Centre of the Family. Em, a chap in the audience
saw it, and his feedback was this. I will go home and make sure my daughter-in-law doesn't
suffer like this anymore. That for me was one of the best feelings ever reading a comment
like that. He didn't, I don't I can't remember if he left his name or not. I think it was
anonymous, but still, he didn't need to leave his, you know, he, that kind of comment that
if it didn't have a real impact. And as far as I was concerned, that play was completely
worth it if that girl he's talking about has changed, or her situation has changed for
the better. That's one. The second thing is, portraying Islam as it is and as how it should
be. Our recent production was Spread By The $word. But it was spelt Sword with the S cut
off, because the myth is spread by the sword. But actually deep down you can't spread anything,
truly, but by talking to someone, if I was to force you to do something, you might do
it, surface level, but deep down, it's not really affecting you. And the same is said
for Islam. So for me, that our recent project was, by far, one of my greatest achievements,
on a wider, scale fighting for the cause of Islamophobia. Well not fighting for the cause
rather than, combating it. Because there's a massive misconception on so many levels.
I...I am a Muslim. I know full well, why I chose the faith. What compelled me to to continue,
practicing it. And I know full well that all these, far right and all these kind of ideas
about it are completely misguided. So if I can not only speak up for my artistic side,
my British side, my South Asian side, I'm damn well going to speak for my Muslim side,
because it's a massive injustice, so I'm privileged to be in a position where I helped hopefully
in some way, tackle that, by setting it, in the 7th Century, and that for me is one of
my proudest achievements, so it's, but the other ones I've got, they own their specialties
as well, but those two in particular stand out for me.
Brilliant. Thank you very much Conor Thank you.
It's wonderful speaking to you. Likewise.