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DIANA SCHAUB: What I want to ask about is public-spiritedness. Is there anything here
that… I mean, we know Franklin himself is a man of very great public spirit. What in
this list of virtues leads Americans to pull out of their narrow understanding of virtue
as just something private and commercial? What leads them to engage in public-spiritedness?
AMY KASS: It seems to me to be the case that if your own house is in order, which is his
first priority, then you are capable, if you’re interested, in doing things for others. Uhh,
just humanly speaking, quite apart from Franklin, if you are so preoccupied, so weighed down
by your own debts and your own vices, and your own inclinations and desires, you never
notice the other people that are around you. And Franklin gives you a very handy recipe
for getting your house in order. DIANA SCHAUB: But do we see that today, for
instance with frugality…
LEON KASS: I think Amy’s point could be embellished this way: human beings are, in
a way, naturally sociable. The question is, in what manner are you going to be sociable?
Are you going to be sociable in a way in which you’re looking upon other people as instruments
of your own gain and advancement? Or are you going to be free from the kinds of necessities
that make you think only in selfish terms? So that you understand that it’s in your
own interest also to be sociable, philanthropic, generous, benevolent. Umm, I think these are
the virtues that are controlling the obstacles to being a free man in a free, self-governing
community. And once people go out there freed of those things that weigh them down, the
other things will take care of themselves. I mean, you will engage with other people
in mutual projects, without simply thinking of yourself. And at the same time you will
also be self-fulfilled. It’s a kind of a remarkable combination.