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>>> Coming up next on "Arizona
Horizon," we'll discuss the
political and economic fallout
from the now-vetoed senate bill
1062.
>>> And we'll check out an art
exhibit in Tempe that looks at
the impact of popular culture on
society.
>>> Those stories next, on
"Arizona Horizon."
>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
possible by contributions from
the friends of eight.
Members of your Arizona PBS
station.
Thank you.
>>> Good evening, and welcome to
"Arizona Horizon."
I'm Ted Simons.
>>> The governor today signed a
bill that repeals controversial
election law changes that were
approved last year.
The governor's actions mean that
voters will not have the
opportunity to decide the law's
fate in a referendum.
And now that the law has been
repealed, it allows Republicans
in the legislature to pass the
same legislation again, either
in part or in total.
Representative Eddie Farnsworth
led the repeal effort.
He says no plans to reintroduce
any of the repealed legislation.
Are in the works now, but house
speaker Andy Tobin says some
parts of the law may have merit
and may need to be addressed.
>>> Democratic congressman Ed
pastor says he's going to retire
after 23 years on the job.
The senior member of Arizona's
house delegation was the first
Hispanic from the state to be
elected to Congress.
Shortly after today's announce.
Maricopa County supervisor Mary
Rose Wilcox announced she will
resign her post to run for
pastor's seat.
And state lawmakers Ruben
Gallego and Steve Gallardo are
also announcing their interest
in suck seating pastor.
>>> After days of intense
pressure, the governor vetoed
senate bill 1062 yesterday, a
bill that according to
opponents, would have led to
discrimination against Gay and
lesbians.
Even though the bill was vetoed
by the governor, the ferocity of
the debate left a mark on
Arizona.
Here to talk about the impact of
senate bill 1062 is ASU pollster
Bruce Merrill, also joining us
is economist Jim rounds of
Elliott D. Pollack and Company.
And Marcus Dell'Artino,
political consultant with the
firm first strategic.
Good to have you all here.
Let's start with you, Bruce.
No real surprise regarding the
governor's veto.
Were you surprised the
legislature passed it in the
first place?
>> Well, I was proud of the
governor at least to chastise
the legislature for even
bringing that bill up to her
office.
Yes, this had implications for
the economy of Arizona.
We're beginning to recover now,
and you talked to us about that
a little more, but I think the
main point is this was a bill
that had --
It was a very negative bill that
really could have hurt a lot of
people.
I just don't think it was
reflective of the opinions and
attitudes and values of the
people in Arizona.
I mean, this piece of
legislation would have done a
great deal of damage to
individuals and I think we're
better than that in Arizona.
So I was proud of the governor.
>> Were you surprised?
Were you surprised that she
vetoed, were you surprised at
the thing --
Were you surprised at any of
this?
I think a lot of lawmakers that
passed this, they're real
surprised.
>> You know, this isn't our
first rodeo with controversy.
So am I surprised this comes up
on occasion?
No.
I wasn't surprised that she
vetoed it, and what I thought
was interesting is that you have
checks and balances in
government.
One of the issues we've talked
about in the past is we've
always wanted the business
community to really step up, go
to the capitol and *** their
fists on the podium.
They kicked in the door this
time.
So it's nice to have that
additional check.
And I think that played a major
role.
The business community speaking
out louder than I've ever heard
it I think did influence people.
>> I want to get back to the
role of the business community,
but again, why did a lot of --
A lot of wacky stuff comes out
of the legislature, this was an
addendum to something that was
already law.
Why did this get this kind of
reaction?
>> Remember, this isn't the
first time we've seen this bill.
This bill end up to the
governor's office last session.
And she vetoed it, which most
people forget.
So it would be natural they
would start this bill again this
session and it would move
quickly again this session,
because everybody is up to speed
on it.
You know, people were watching
it, but it was an uncertain, how
do we react to this bill, how I
do talk --
How do I talk about the effects
it may have on the economy when
it's talking about a religious
freedom bill?
So once the national media cued
in on this, that was the
five-alarm fire that set the
business community in motion.
>> Why did the national media
cue in on this?
This is not the first bill
that's raised eyebrows in
Arizona.
Why were so many eyebrows
raised?
>> I think we've lulled
ourselves into the sense that
the national media is not
watching us.
As soon as 1070 went down,
national bureaus moved their
press people here and made us a
hot spot for the nation.
To look for these things.
And I think that was --
It was an easy hit for them.
>> A couple emails, a couple
tweets went out talking about
how this legislation's
discriminatory, all of a sudden
a reporter from "The New York
Times" or "LA Times" says we've
got to get to Arizona and look
at this legislation.
And that's how quickly it moves.
>> They're still going to be
paying attention.
They need to be careful and have
a clean and short remainder of
the session, because any little
slip-up or anything that's a
little controversial is going to
be magnified because of what
happened so far.
>> I think also it just
reinforces very negative image
that Arizona has, Frankly, in
the media throughout the
country.
And after 1070, this is just
followed that, so it was a
natural thing with the media to
jump on this.
And the media creates these
issues to a very large extent,
and many of the questions I've
been getting is, has this done
new damage to Arizona?
Perhaps, but I think more than
anything it's reinforced this
idea from the interviews I've
been giving today, about all
these crazy things that happened
in Arizona.
>> Been giving a lot of
interviews today?
>> A lot.
>> Around the country and around
the world, I imagine?
>> Yes.
>> Same kind of questions?
>> Unfortunately some of them
start with, what's in the water
out there?
I mean, why do we keep hearing
about this, and we'd raised
this issue earlier, I think you
have to look at the primary
system, not only in Arizona but
around the country where we end
up electing people that are not
really representative of the
average voter.
That's particularly true in
Arizona.
>> You mentioned earlier the
business community coming up and
making a stand here.
Where was the business community
back when this was being
debated?
I know at the legislature there
was some pretty hot and heavy
conversation on this.
Is the --
Is this the kind of thing where
the business community --
I thought Medicaid expansion
would do a little bit of this,
give a little impetus to
business --
When is that particular beast
going to start to raising its
head?
>> These types of things you
can't always anticipate.
You can't always anticipate that
exponential effect, like when
things pick up --
It just accelerates so quickly.
I think for the most part the
discussion happened at the
capitol.
But even though the business
community didn't really speak up
and like I said kick the door
down, while it was being
debated, they still did it
before it was enacted into law.
They brought up a lot of issues
to the governor.
They played a major role in how
the government operates and
influences things.
So I'd like to give them a
little credit for jumping in at
at least a decent time, rather
than after something could have
been enacted and unanticipated
consequence were realized.
>> to Jim's point, the tourism
industry should get a lot of
kudos on this one for tapping
into the business community.
Sometimes they're looked at a
little bit differently, they're
not apple or Google, or
Greyhound leasing, so they're
looked at differently.
They knocked on some doors and
said, hey, we need help.
This is going to have an effect.
>> They were in it early.
They get kicked in the teeth all
the time when this happens.
The convention business impacted
quite a bit, the tourism
industry as a whole impacted
quite a bit.
And we've made comment before,
when you look at the state as a
whole, a lot of these impacts
won't derail the economy.
We are not going into a
recession, but the impacts can
be significant.
But the tourism industry did
step up early on and raise red
flags.
It's because they keep getting
impacted time and time again
when these things happen.
That's the first industry to get
nailed.
>> This may be a little
unpopular to say, part of the
problem is, how do you define
the business community?
I mean, what's happened in
Arizona with the major
decentralization, where all of
the --
Many of the leaders, for
instance, greater Phoenix
leadership, are people that have
only been here a few months.
I don't --
I think there's a real lack,
Frankly, of concerted business
direction in this state that we
could use more of.
>> Speaking of businesses,
business leaders that have only
been here a short while, a lot
of residents have only been here
a short while.
So with all of this going on,
the impact now on upcoming
elections, Republicans who
oppose this, does it help them?
Republicans who supported this
and are fighting for it, help or
hurt them?
How does this change the
landscape, or does it?
>> Well, I think the issues that
have been raised, particularly
Jim some of your comments in the
tourist industry, for instance,
a couple of interviews I gave
today that people said, is it
true that the NFL was really the
major reason the governor took
the position that she did?
I found that a little offensive.
I mean, in the sense that
somehow we would sell out our
basic values because the NFL
might pull the Super Bowl from
here.
But that's the real world we
live in, and there were people
asking that question.
>> By the way, once the national
media touches something like
this, perception becomes
reality.
And you lose control of --
Nobody at one point was talking
about the bill, they were
talking about what they think
the bill does.
Which in some cases was
completely inaccurate, in others
was accurate.
But that's the danger.
You lose a real --
The ability to have a true
debate in front of a podium, in
front of your peers because
you're battling blogging and the
"LA Times," and "The New York
Times," who often quite Frankly
don't have a sense of actually
the law.
>> That perception, we're seeing
now that Tesla is looking at
Arizona over this battery
operation.
You've got Google, apple, Super
Bowl, the pro bowl, the NCAA
tournament --
Were these things threatened
much, or at all by just the fact
that 1062 passed the legislature
and the governor had to do what
she did?
>> I think that they potentially
were threatened.
But it had to do with a lot of
the interpretation and more just
this momentum that --
The discussion that was going on
rather than the specific bill.
The reason that I think that
there could have been an NFL
play is that we went through
this before.
Not our first rodeo.
All the examples you give on how
these types of bills could
impact the economy, Arizona is
usually that first example, if
you look through our history.
But I think a lot of these
groups jumped in late so they
could be part of the bandwagon.
It took a few bold people early
on to say I'm opposed to it.
Some of the candidates running
for governor went in very early
and put their neck on the line,
but after that momentum it's
easy to jump into that.
>> Did that help those
candidates?
Back to the election question,
did it help to jump on and say
no early?
>> I think it put some pressure
on all of them on how to
navigate between saying this
isn't a good law in terms of
what we need to do in terms of
development, but on the other
hand, remember, it's those
voters that supported this law
that are the primary voters that
have a big influence on who's
going to get the nomination.
And nominating that, how do you
say, no, this isn't good --
A good bill and still not
alienate these people that you
need as a supporter?
And I think they're still trying
to figure that out.
>> How do you see the political
landscape after 1062?
Again, for those who are vocal
for it, vocal against it, those
who tend to follow the center
for Arizona politics --
That's a very important figure
down there at the capitol.
Talk about the dynamics head
nothing a primary and general
election.
>> All politics is local, and in
some of these cases, Kate Brophy
Mcgee, Heather Carter both
voted against the bill.
It helps them probably in their
district.
>> Ethan Orr in Tucson.
>> Very tough district.
Republicans and democrats almost
even.
And I think it probably helps --
He voted no on the bill, I think
it probably helps him.
If you are in Sierra Vista and
you voted for the bill, that
probably helps you rather than
had you voted against it.
>> That's why your statewide
candidates like two senators can
actually come out against the
bill.
Because they represent everybody
in the state as opposed to these
local constituents.
>> And there's a legitimate
defense to voting it down or
being opposed to the bill.
Even if that might be your core
base, because of the economics.
Ignore what was in the bill.
If there's a bill, whatever
number it may be, and it's
causing a pretty significant
economic impact, it could be a,
this isn't the right time for.
This we're seeing too many large
numbers.
We lose a thousand business
locations in a high-tech
company, that's about
$10 million to the state in
terms of taxes.
What kind of multiplier do you
want to apply to that, is it
going to be 20 million,
30 million, or more?
When the numbers are so large
and the economic discussion gets
so big, you might be able to
bring that back in and say, this
is what we had to do right now.
>> There's been some discussion
the democrats might benefit from
all of this.
In the long run.
Valid?
Does that make sense?
>> Take a different view of
that.
It's valid in this point.
This is a giant fund-raising
mechanism for them.
The human rights campaign is
raising tons of money off this
particular bill.
And clearly focused on Arizona.
They want to go to the ballot.
And I think this helps them,
one, organize, from a
grass-roots point, and two,
raise money.
So I think that will have some
effect.
At least on --
>> you talked about the primary
system and how it's such a major
factor.
People --
People want to know, is there a
disconnect between the
legislature and the Arizona
general public?
If there is a disconnect, why
and how do you get things a
little closer to each other?
>> There's clearly a disconnect.
I do many polls.
On this bill I did not do a poll
on this bill.
Would I estimate that 70 to 75%
of the people would not support
this bill.
And I think why --
The reason you have the
disconnect, again, you have very
low turnout in primary
elections.
And you have to give the people
that do turn out credit.
They feel so strongly from an
ideological point of view, that
they put up money, they go to
the polls, and that's the game
that we play.
I mean, one could argue that
they have a right to determine
these things, because they went
to the polls.
And Frankly, the average voter
in Arizona doesn't go to the
polls.
Independents, which are
increasing almost week by week,
have a lower voting percentage
than Hispanics in Arizona.
So it really --
If you want to change the
system, you either change the
primary system, which we tried
to do a couple years ago, or you
get more moderate voters to the
polls on election day.
>> Do you see a disconnect as
well?
Because I've had lawmakers on
this program, they don't see a
disconnect.
Not at all.
They think they're doing the
public's work, they're doing
just that.
Yet everyone sells going, what
the heck is going on in Arizona?
>> Right.
This particular issue puts a
focus on what people would
perceive as the disconnect.
But largely, when you're down
there meeting with these people
you don't see a disconnect.
Steve Pearce is from a rural
district, and he wears cowboy
hat.
That's representative of the
district.
Heather Carter is representative
of her district.
I can go through the list.
But it's --
When these issues move you
think, hey, what happened here?
So in this particular instance,
the bill moved pretty quickly
and nobody said anything about
it until the very end.
And that's what happened.
But to Bruce --
Bruce is right.
What needs to happen, people
need to vote.
It's really simple.
If you want to change the
system, go out and vote.
Don't change the system in how
we vote.
I don't think that's the answer.
I think people, if you're
talking about this bill, if
you're talking about government
at all, go register to vote and
show up in the primary election
and the general election.
>> Back to business.
OK.
We could go forever on the
political aspect.
You always hear, Google may not
do this, Tesla may not come,
what do businesses want when
they're looking to relocate or
looking to expand?
How much does this factor in as
opposed to tax incentives, and
other things like that?
>> They're going to start with
cost.
They're going to look at land
costs, labor costs, they're
going to have an idea in their
head what part of the country
might they want to locate in,
because of business inputs and
where they might want to ship
their goods.
They're going to look at basic
things.
Then they get into the specific
tax policies, they get into the
economic development incentives
and they also consider some of
these things.
One of the most cost effective
things Arizona has done the last
couple years is better promote
the state.
Three or four years ago we were
doing a terrible promoting the
good stuff.
It's not very costly to promote
what we do well, but
unfortunately we just had one
week negative commercial on
Arizona, and so how do we go
from here and maybe offset some
of that damage?
>> If you do get the incentives
and other goodies, if you will,
major company looking to come
out here, do they just say,
that's just a speed bump, it's
just a glitch, or do they say,
that's something we just can't
abide?
>> From what I've been hearing,
some of those companies that
were considering Arizona versus
another handful of states, and
they were all considered pretty
equal, sometimes these things
can make a difference between
being short listed.
I didn't think that a lot of the
companies that were opposed to
the bill would pick up and move.
A lot of the people opposed to
the bill weren't going to pick
up and move.
They were saying this is what
we'd like to do.
But I think did it have a
business impact.
I think we took care of a lot of
that with the veto.
But I don't know how lasting
it's going to be.
>> Interesting.
>> And I do think we shouldn't
overlook, before we leave, we
know what the consequences would
have been had this bill gone
into law.
Would you have seen
demonstrations, you would have
seen national and international
coverage of this.
It would have damaged Arizona in
a very, very significant way.
>> With that in mind, last
question for all of you --
Has Arizona changed because of
this?
>> I'm not sure that it's
changed because of this.
This is probably reinforced some
images that may or may not be
real images.
But you know, I don't think it's
changed dramatically because of
this issue.
>> What do you think?
>> I would say --
I don't think it's changed.
To Bruce's point, I don't think
it was a fair characterization
in the first place, but this
debate is going to continue.
It may not be tomorrow, but this
debate will have to happen and
this discussion will have to
happen between religious rights
and the other side.
Because I don't see it going
away any time soon.
>> What do you think?
Does this change the state in
any way?
>> I want to end with something
positive.
I was really impressed that the
business community stepped up
and had a major influence on
something like this.
I actually feel better about the
business community working with
the politicians going forward.
Now, it's very unpleasant going
through this, but if this
continues in a responsible way,
maybe it will keep us out of
some of these problems.
I'm still optimistic.
>> Great discussion.
Thanks for joining us.
>>> A new exhibit at the Tempe
center for the arts is taking
visitors back in time while
looking to the future.
Producer Christina Estes and
photographer Juan Magana show us
how past pop icons are
influencing the next generation.
>> One of the guys from
fantastic four.
>> Is that captain America?
>> Yeah.
>> They're items few people
would expect to see featured in
an art gallery.
>> What we thought all along
this wall is we've got famous
batman characters from the
1960s television show.
A lot of these are the famous
villains, like cat woman.
>> But they make perfect sense
to Michelle.
She coordinated the exhibit
called "american pop.
Comic books to science fiction
and beyond."
It is all an exhibition about
the loves that people have for
comic books, science fiction TV
and film, the real science
behind science fiction, and the
artists who are living today
that are inspired by all of
those things.
>> One artist's love for
superheros led to this unique
quilt.
>> It's actual comic book pages,
so they're paper, they are
stitched together and in here
we've got batman, and spiderman,
and captain America, different
superheros.
He embroiders details on some of
these pages.
>> He also knitted this
10-foot-tall fantastic four
consume.
>> No one could have worn that.
>> We get giggles, and I think
that's OK.
And then people think a little
bit more about, why would an
artist make a knitted superhero
costume?
>> They might ask the same
question about this PROTON pack.
It's built to resemble the one
worn in the "Ghostbusters"
movie.
>> He studied Dan Ackroyd's
costume, and he replicated from
scratch all of these different
parts to make this pack.
And he told me that even this
part right here, this round
area, is a frying pan.
This rainbow cord, you
actually --
It doesn't exist anymore, so he
had to order that on e-bay.
>> You'll see plenty of items
that are hard to find.
Like batman books.
A helmet.
Even a compass watch.
>> This is my display.
I've got a HAN solo gun, action
figure, Darth Vader, Luke
skywalker.
And I was really enamored of
Princess Leia and I wanted to be
here.
>> Sci-fi characters of the past
have influenced many of today's
scientists, including an ASU
professor who donated this
"Star Trek" costume he made in
college.
>> I think it's as much about
the process for some people that
are into pop culture, of the
collecting or researching or
making of those things, as it is
about the final product.
>> Making connections between
fantasy and reality is key to
this exhibit.
Next to a display of strange
adventures, comic books, you'll
find meteorites from the earth
and science exploration.
>> Some of the kids that are
looking at the show might be
inspired by some of the science
behind the science fiction.
>> There's my favorite.
>> Or the moral stories behind
some of the comic book heroes.
>> He's grabbing the girl.
>> And might take that to the
next level, and create their own
heroes or get more interested in
science.
>> The exhibit at the Tempe
center for the arts runs through
June 8.
Admission is free and every
Friday night the gallery also
hosts sci-fi lectures and
discussions.
>>> Friday on "Arizona Horizon,"
it's "The Journalists' Round
Table."
The latest on the political
fallout of failed senate bill
1062, and the career of retiring
congressman Ed pastor and see
what's next for his district.
That's Friday on "The
Journalists' Round Table."
>>> That is it for now.
I'm Ted Simons.
Thank you so much for joining
us.
You have a great evening.
>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
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Members of your Arizona PBS
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>>> Let's talk about the food a
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>> I found it to be very
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It was built in 1909.
>> When I took the first
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>> Texas grill is my favorite
restaurant in town.
>> Delicious.
>> You don't go to this
restaurant for the ambience.
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And you'll probably want to take
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>> Join us next time when three
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on eight HD.
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I'm Beth Mcdonald host of a
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I'm not the star of the show,
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So if you would like to find out
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American society of clinical
oncology.
Patients have access to clinical
trials, and conventional
therapies.
Administered in a
patient-centered environment.