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Jeff Smith: It was very difficult to draw. I had to have the proportions correct and
that was pretty much it.
Gabriel Bá: Well, it looked great from the first panel.
JS: Thank you.
[laughter]
Mark Askwith: Yeah, didn't we all fall in love with Thorn? I fell in love with Thorn.
GB: Yes. Go to the stream.
MA: Yeah.
GB: I like your dress. Fall in love, fall in love.
S?: It worked so well, yes.
[laughter]
JS: Did you hear that Heidi?
[laughter]
MA: Sorry, go ahead.
S?: Why does The Hooded One carry a scythe in the books that he's introduced in?
JS: Two reasons. One is that it's supposed to just represent the stereotypical character
of death. Have you ever seen that? Death is like a big hooded character with a scythe,
have you ever seen that? So, she's supposed to look like that. And then in the story,
supposedly she was originally killed when Thorn's father was trying to defend her, when
she was originally taken and given to the dragons. So Thorn's father killed her with
that scythe, so that's why she keeps it with her.
S?: And may I ask another question?
JS: Sure, go ahead, man.
S?: What was the second hardest character to draw?
[laughter]
JS: Let's see. Well, I'll tell you what, there's that big giant dragon at the end that was
covered with all the millions of other little dragons. That was hard to draw.
[laughter]
S?: You mean Mim?
JS: Mim, yeah. Especially when they came out of the ground and they grabbed her and took
her back down. Yeah, that was hard. Remember that time? That was awesome.
[laughter]
JS: Thank you for that. It was a good question.
S?: So, I'm very interested in panel formats and how they work, like the size of different
panels and what's placed emphasis on and what's a small panel, what's a large panel. How do
you decide which to use and what formats to use? Like how do you decide what your panels
are going to look like?
GB: You know, for a long time I tried to do what I was reading in Bone because the...
When we started reading Bone, he also put out a book called the Bone Reader, where he
explains some of the stuff that was going through his mind. And he was telling about
the rhythm he was trying to create in the story so people would fall into the story,
because every page was like six panels, every time, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So every
time he wanted to emphasize on something, he ran away from the six pages and did a bigger
panel. So you knew that was important. So that's how we saw that working on Bone and
it's the same mentality. You have to see in your story what's important and you have to
make sure somehow that the reader pays attention on that so you can make that panel bigger
or you can make that panel simpler so it's less information so you are sure that he's
not going to be distracted by the background.
GB: Or you can divide the panels... The panels no, the dialogues, and leave the most important
sentence of that phrase in that panel so the reader gets to that panel and reads that sentence.
There're all sorts of ways to play with the sizes and the rhythm of the story, and you
have to see what you want the people to pay attention the most and that's how you variate
because that's the fun part. You have to make the reader be interested in everything that
for you it's very brainy, but for the reader should be enjoyable and invisible. So it varies
a lot.
MA: I think that's the central issue in comics, I have to say.
JS: Yeah, I think what you're doing is you're manipulating time. You are controlling how
long the reader spends on each panel. So if you have a small panel, then perhaps you want
the reader to go by there very quickly, not spend too much time on it. And you can do
other things that Fabio was kind of alluding to, if you wanna slow someone down on a panel,
you can add more background, more details, to catch their eye. I've noticed, drifting
off a little bit from whether or not you make a panel big or not, but I've noticed as I
make the comic, and I'll have all 22, 24 pages going at one time, and sometimes I'll literally
lay them all out just to get a sense and read it. And I'll usually do that in different
stages, when I'm pencilling it, as I'm going through and inking and lettering it, and bits
and pieces, and it all slowly builds up.
JS: I don't just draw one page and be done, put in the drawer. I'm working on the whole
story, all 22 pages at one time. And I've noticed that as I read it over and over again,
when it's just pencilled, you know, a little sequence where say Fone Bone is being chased
by a rat creature and he falls off a cliff or something. And that might take a page and
a half. And I read it in pencil version. "Ah!" And it's so... It's funny, it's exactly how...
It's the right speed and everything. And I go through it and I look at the rest of the
comic. And then a couple weeks later, I'm doing it again but now I've inked a bunch
of stuff. And now there is real stuff for my eye to see, and so it changes the timing
on the panel. Now I stop and instead of just breezing right through and Fone Bone is falling
over the cliff, now I stop and I look at the tree in the background because there's something
there to look at.
JS: And maybe sometimes I leave it like take that tree out because, hey, I don't want somebody
stopping right there. I want them to move through that panel very quickly. So it's...
I think in some ways the answer to the question, there are little rules which you can probably
find people writing about like smaller panels in a row give you a staccato effect and go
quickly. Obviously, big splash panel is gonna be a huge moment when you reveal something.
But I think generally, for me anyway, it's a fairly intuitive thing. You kind of just
have to read the story to yourself and see how it's acting and see how it's going and
sometimes you wanna emphasize something or shorten something. That make sense?
S?: Yeah, yeah that makes sense.
MA: Just to add on that, all three of you are real masters of the silent panel. You
really rely on the Silent Panel a lot.
[laughter]
MA: Why is silent so important to cartooning and to your work? There is the silence right
there.
[laughter]
JS: Well, because we... In our interactions. It's not all words. I mean you get stuff from
a look or a glance or you move. And not everybody is talking to everybody in a movie and I think
you can recreate those moments in a comic just as well and I think they are another
way of drawing attention to that moment and thinking about what that character is doing.
MA: Go ahead, sir.
S?: So "Bone" has found its way into classrooms from grade four to grade 10 and Daytripper
looks like it's on its way in as well. I'm trying to get the funding together to get
a class set for my grade 10 and 11 English class.
S?: Great.
S?: I am wondering... Yeah... [laughter] Did you guys ever think that your works would
be studied in schools, and now that it is, how do you feel about that?
GB: Well, as I said earlier, one of the things that inspired us to tell stories were books,
books that you read when you're in school, you know books that survive generations and
you know keep being, I don't know...um...Relevant. So that's what we try to do. And I'd love
to have the comics that I do studied in schools and, because, you know, we try to talk about
stuff that... Art in general, for us is like a reflection of your time, your generation
or at least good art. So, we're trying to talk about matters that we think are questions
of our times. And I hope they survive. And that's what I want out of comics that they
survive their own time and you know go on. And making it to schools is one of the best
way to do that.
JS: And I never thought it would be read by kids and stuff. It was Scholastic that came
up with that idea. They were able to see that Bone was... I was writing Bone for children,
but I was writing the comic that I wanted to read when I was a kid. And of course, but
I was you know a grown man doing it so I had to make it somewhat interesting for me too.
But it was very much Scholastic's vision to be able to see it and package it and get it
to kids and that was definitely one of the best things that ever happened to me for sure.
MA: Just a note, I think that gentleman in the baseball cap, you will be the last question,
but I as you say, one of the sea changes in comics with you have stores now and publishers
that will give you all these back issues. The fact that, Watchmen, Dark Knight, Maus
are all still in print and in stores. The back lists are flourishing. I think that changes
comics. I think that changes the industry. And I think the fact that libraries and schools
have them radically changes this.
JS: I had a very interesting conversation with Art Spiegelman and Will Eisner in like
1996. And we were saying how are we...
MA: Excuse me, Jeff, you dropped a couple of names there.
[laughter]
JS: Oh, I'm sorry. But I really was talking to them. [laughter] We were at the Houston
University and we were... It was maybe it was '97 but it was definitley... We were frustrated
because we were at this point where... You know obviously I'm talking to the guy that
did "A Contract with God" and "Maus" and Bone was was nearing completion. I was just like,
"How are we gonna get this... How are we gonna push graphic novels just the next... Over
the next peak, over the next hill?" And Art got very Zen like and relaxed and he says,
"It's gonna happen. We just need a bigger shelf. We just need a shelf of reliable books."
He says, "And they take so long." He goes, "You know it took Maus... ", it took him ten
years, he says, "Bone is gonna take ten years." It takes a long time to do a graphic novel.
So, I thought that was very prescient because he nailed it exactly. At that point, there
just weren't enough books to constitute a profit centre in a Barnes & Noble, and now
it's a category, and he was right.
MA: Yes, sir?
S?: Hi. I just wanna say thank you guys for coming here, and I've read all... Like I read
work by the three of you guys at some point and really enjoyed it. Jeff, especially Bone.
I have a questions about story. And you were talking about hitting certain icons and then
having that affect people at different points and just basically connecting with people.
And I feel like with your work and a lot of independent work, that's a priority at least
for the most part. But if you're with a lot of mainstream books, I know you guys have
worked... Dabbled in that at some point or another, but I feel like sometimes it's more
event driven and then the story gets lost, and then the connection is lost. And then
what I'm supposed to be getting out of it, a connection, I don't get it. I was just wondering
that, I know you guys have dabbled in certain things or collaborated with people who work
in that exclusively sometimes, but do you feel that in sort of super hero comics, mainstream
books that that's the case or are the creators trying really hard and are there things getting
in the way?
JS: That one.
[laughter]
JS: It's the difference between something like Daytripper and Bone is that it's a personal
book. It's a personal book. The indie comics that this whole festival is celebrating are
the visions of artists. The cartoonists that you're gonna see here all weekend are authors.
That's very different from what you have at DC and Marvel. Those are company books. Those
are corporately owned characters. It's a factory. I'm not saying that to be completely... To
put it down, but that's what it is. It's... There's an editor. There's a company that
owns the character. They hire an editor who hires a writer and then also hires a penciler,
then another guy an inker, and it is all churned out and it's a corporate commercial enterprise.
JS: It's very different from Daytripper, or Hark! A Vagrant, or any of the books you're
gonna see down here, Habibi. These are books by authors. And I think that's the general
difference. And when there is a good mainstream book, and they do happen. I mean there are
real... It's because those particular creators are so good, they could get pushed past those
things that are in their way which are the needs and desires of the corporation. That
answer your question?
S?: Yep, yep.
JS: Cool, man. Bummer.
[laughter]
JS: Maybe we better let him answer... Ask a question. Come on, give us a good one. Come
on.
S?: Who would you think your favourite Bone is?
JS: Great question! My favourite Bone, it has to be Fone Bone. I mean he's the one I
identify with. He's the one I wish I was the most like. Although the one I'm probably the
most like is Phoney Bone.
[laughter]
JS: Alright?
S?: There are two rat creatures that chase Fone Bone off of the cliff, and you follow
them throughout the books. Why did you follow them?
JS: Well, they're funny.
[laughter]
JS: I'll tell you a quick story, and this will go over your head. This is for the older
people in the Audience, Mark.
[laughter]
GB: Thanks.
[laughter]
JS: When I made up the rat creatures, I was doing Bone as a comic strip in college newspaper,
this was like 1982. And that summer, there a huge hit, like this fad book, and it was
called "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche". And it was a very popular book, but it was making
fun of I guess guys that eat quiche, I don't know.
[laughter]
JS: So, that was my joke. I was like real monsters don't eat quiche. And fortunately
the rat creatures long outlived that silly book anyway. And also, I eat quiche.
[laughter]
JS: Because of that book.
MA: Well, I'd like to call out Chris Butcher now, and he's got some words to say.
Christopher Butcher: Alright. Everybody, don't run off, but can we get a round of applause
for our speakers today?
[applause]
CB: That was great, guys. And while you're all running and sunning, thank you to Mark
Askwith, thank you to Toronto Public Library, thank you Jeff, Gabriel and Fabio, and thank
you all for coming again.