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OF YOUR QUESTION A BIT LATER
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE STATE OF
FOOTBALL IN PARTICULAR TODAY.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT LANCE
ARMSTRONG, BECAUSE THERE IS A
MAN WHO, FOR A LONG TIME, WAS
PUT UP AS THE GREAT AMERICAN
SPORTING ICON.
THE MOST INSPIRING, THE MOST
FORMIDABLE, THE GREAT CHAMPION,
THE SEVEN TIMES TOUR de FRANCE
WINNER, AND IT ALL CAME CRASHING
DOWN.
WHAT WAS THE MOMENT FOR YOU WHEN
THE BLINKERS MAYBE CAME OFF AND
YOU REALIZED HE IS A CHEAT?
>> WELL, I THINK THE EVIDENCE
WAS ACCUMULATING YEAR AFTER YEAR
AND THERE WAS SO MUCH SMOKE, YOU
FIGURED THERE HAD TO BE FIRE.
BUT AT ONE POINT LAST YEAR, HE
DROPPED THE CASE.
HE JUST SAID IT'S GONE TOO FAR
AND HIS STATEMENT WAS I CAN'T
PUT UP --
>> TIME TO QUIT.
>> FOR HIM TO QUIT, BECAUSE HE
WAS ALWAYS, IN CONTRAST TO A LOT
OF GUYS WHO WERE INVOLVED WITH
PERFORMANCE-ENHANCING DRUGS HE
WAS ALWAYS QUICK TO CHALLENGE
ANYBODY TO TAKE THEM TO COURT,
TO CALL THEM A LIAR, TO SAY GET
ME ON THE AIR.
IN FACT, ONE TIME SEVERAL YEARS
AGO, I WAS IN THAT SEAT FILLING
IN FOR LARRY KING FOR A WEEK,
AND ONE OF THESE ACCUSATIONS
CAME OUT IN THE FRENCH
NEWSPAPER, AND HE ACTUALLY
CALLED ME, HE WAS SAVVY ENOUGH,
HE CALLED ME, HE KNEW THAT A
SPORTS GUY WAS GOING TO BE
SITTING IN THIS SEAT AND THAT IT
WAS SEEN INTERNATIONALLY, WOULD
BE SEEN IN EUROPE.
HE SAID I WANT TO GO ON FOR THE
FULL HOUR AND REFUTE THESE
ALLEGATIONS.
AND I ASKED HIM EVERY
CHALLENGING QUESTION I COULD
THINK OF, EVERY SKEPTICAL
QUESTION.
HE WAS VERY SMOOTH, HE NEVER
WAVERED, HE WAS VERY, VERY --
>> HE LIED TO YOU.
>> HE LIED TO ME AND HE LIED TO
EVERYBODY ELSE.
>> SO AGAIN, FOR THOSE WHO MAY
NOT BE CLEAR ON THIS, YOU ARE
FLATLY SAYING, REGARDLESS OF THE
FACT THAT YOU HAVE CRITICISMS OF
THE PROTOCOL, EVEN IF THE
PROTOCOL WAS CORRECT, THERE'S NO
WAY THEY COULD HAVE FOUND EPO IN
YOUR URINE BECAUSE YOU'RE FLATLY
SAYING YOU NEVER USE IT?
>> WHEN I PEED IN THAT BOTTLE,
THERE WASN'T EPO IN IT.
NO WAY.
>> HE WAS A GOOD LIAR, WASN'T
HE?
>> HE WAS A VERY GOOD LIAR
BECAUSE HE WAS INTELLIGENT AND
HE HAD A SERIES OF FACTS OR WHAT
HE PURPORTED TO BE FACTS RATHER
THAN EVASIONS AND HE DID HAVE
THE ONE THING GOING FOR HIM THAT
HE HAD BEEN TESTED REPEATEDLY IN
AND OUT OF COMPETITION, AND
NEVER FAILED A DRUG TEST.
>> WE NOW KNOW ALL THAT HAPPENED
WAS HE HAD GONE TO EVER MORE
ELABORATE SCIENTIFIC WAYS OF
AVOIDING THE TESTERS.
>> OF COURSE.
WITH THE LIVESTRONG FOUNDATION
AND ALL THE GOOD WORK THAT HE
DID ON BEHALF OF CANCER RESEARCH
AND VICTIMS OF CANCER, THAT WON
HIM SYMPATHY.
>> I THINK THE WHOLE LIVESTRONG
THING WAS A COVER.
I HATE TO SAY IT.
I HATE TO BE THAT CYNICAL BUT MY
PROBLEM WITH LANCE ARMSTRONG, I
THINK HE BUILT THAT WHOLE
EDIFICE AROUND HIMSELF TO
PROTECT HIMSELF FROM THE RAMPANT
CHEATING THAT WENT ON DURING
THAT ENTIRE PERIOD.
>> ONE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
ARMSTRONG AND OTHER ATHLETES
INVOLVED WITH PEDs, TO
AMERICANS, LANCE ARMSTRONG WAS
CYCLING.
THE TRUTH IS, MOST AMERICANS
DON'T KNOW --
>> HE WAS BIGGER, THOUGH, WASN'T
HE?
HE WAS AMERICA FOR A LONG TIME.
HE WAS A WINNER.
HE NEVER QUIT.
HE WAS INSPIRING.
HE BEAT CANCER.
HE WENT BACK AND WON AGAIN.
>> IT WAS ABOUT HIM.
YOU COULD ROOT AND MANY PEOPLE
DO, FOR TIGER WOODS BECAUSE THEY
FIND HIM A COMPELLING GOLFER.
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY EMBRACE
EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM PERSONALLY.
THERE ARE OTHER ATHLETES WHO
MAKE A LONG LIST BUT WITH
ARMSTRONG, SINCE AMERICANS BY
AND LARGE DON'T CARE ABOUT
CYCLING, IT WAS ALL ABOUT THEIR
FEELING ABOUT HIM.
THEY HAD TO BELIEVE IN HIM.
SO THIS FALL IS EVEN GREATER
THAN THE FALL OF SOME OTHERS.
>> HOW DID YOU FEEL THAT HE LIED
SO SPECTACULARLY LIKE THIS RIGHT
ACROSS A DESK FOR AN HOUR ON
TELEVISION, AROUND THE WORLD, HE
LOOKED YOU, BOB COSTAS, IN THE
EYE, ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED
MEN YOURSELF IN AMERICAN SPORT,
AND JUST SOLD YOU A COMPLETE
PACK OF LIES.
>> I DIDN'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY.
I JUST THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS HIS
DEAL.
>> DID HE EVER APOLOGIZE TO YOU?
>> NO.