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[Moose] What's up everyone, this is Moose and we are here on ctf_turbine_pro_rc2 with Hein and Fixxxer
from The Syndicate and gunRunners respectively
Today we're going to be looking at this map, same as always.
We're gonna go ahead and start with Hein, and he's going to tell us rollouts for this map.
[Hein] Hey, I guess the reason that everyone's kind of curious as to why we we went from rc1 to rc2...
So, look up! And that's why!
The ceiling's about a third higher, for those really high juggles that always happen. [Moose] Right.
[Hein] But that's about it so we will begin with the rollouts. Let's go to BLU.
[Moose] We'll leave Fixxxer behind.
Let him do his thing.
This is a map that's pretty good for the whip but it's not necessary.
You can usually win the mid without being out first, it's a matter of how you prioritize your kills.
So you'll always want to kill the big damage doers, so the Demo and the Heavy,
and hopefully you can get a pretty easy kill on a Soldier or a Scout that overextend a little too far cause they get a little bit greedy.
So you could probably get one of those. So, just rollout like normal.
And one thing that I like to do is send the Pyro down with the Engineer just to let him set up his stuff and so he won't get killed really fast by the Spy-Scout combo.
So some teams leave both of those down there the entire time, others don't.
You want to go ahead and take over their stairs as quickly as you can.
And a lot of people call this the elbow or the banana, or something like that. You could just straight-up push through,
but more than likely you need to try and kill as many of them as possible, because they'll probably just do the same thing to you,
and their team will kill your Engy and Pyro, you'll kill theirs, and then you kind of fight at mid, or it just doesn't work out at all.
So Scout: I like to send Scout straight through one of the doors. Either one, just to kind of watch out for things, and sometimes you can get a pretty quick cap.
Sometimes - it doesn't always happen. It kind of depends on if the Engineer drops his gun first or his Dispenser.
So, I recommend everyone, do that and just build your gun first. Just in case.
There's too many times where we just go straight in, there's nothing there, and we just take it out.
If you want to be fully aggressive and not just take this, you can have your Heavy and your Medic go left,
and then have your Scout do this jump right here, right on to the crate, and kind of block because he's going to be out there pretty quick.
You want to be on this backside if you're gonna to do this, cause as I was saying, this is very aggressive.
And you can die very easily, so you need to decide what you're trying to accomplish with this jump.
Are you trying to kill people or are you trying to just put out damage and let your Scout clean up, or something like that.
So if you want to kill someone, do a forward jump all the way and just focus down the Medic.
When you're up at this height, you're basically shooting straight down, so plan on popping the Medic up and just shoot the wall behind him
so you can get an easy kill. And that's all it takes; it's very quick, it's very easy.
If you want to do that also, I would say have your Scout go with you, instead of going for the...
Hi! Hi Fixxxer.
...instead of going through the elbow, way over there.
And you can do a lot of damage and then you'll have your demo come out main, and he can jump, if he wants.
He can also jump on there, I don't really recommend putting two at one place.
So he could jump up to here on this far side and start spamming from the far side, and he'll get some good spam out and he won't get hurt.
And you'll have the rest of his team kind of hanging out here. And if you do it right it works great. If you do it wrong, your Soldier will die, your Scout will die,
and they'll just roll through. So you gotta know exactly what you're doing, and Fixxxer the last time you played this
what did you generally do on your rollout?
[Fixxxer] My rollout, I pretty much beelined for the point with Embryo, our Scout.
If I had an easy pick going out to mid I'd come out the garage door here on the left, and I'll go towards banana.
If I had an easy pick perhaps on a Medic or a Demo down below I'd do it
but generally I wanted to avoid any confrontation so I can get to their flag room and meet Embryo there for perhaps a quick cap.
[Hein] Right, and that's a big thing that he's talking about. This is a big map, and you gotta really know how to navigate through it.
So the whole point is to cap flags. Some teams will just stalemate outside and just kinda hold mid and never cap,
and then their team can get in with a Scout and a Spy, and they can pull it out and cap, and that could win them the round
if you're not pushing the whole time, you always want to push, you never want to stagnate.
So we've got the Scout kinda... a few options for him. Your Sniper does whatever he wants.
There's so many different places - he could hide back at main, he could go either side of the deck, he could go up the banana and shoot out that
which is probably not that smart at the very start, but later on it's very smart.
Just kinda let him do his thing. Make sure he has Jarate, because he can throw it from way back here over the side
and he can just get all of them covered with sweet sweet Jarate, and they can't really do a whole lot about it
and if your Soldier jumps and your Demo's spamming, you can really do a ton of damage.
So, adversely, you gotta watch out for them throwing Jarate.
So maybe have your Pyro looking for that, if you want to send your Pyro out with you. And you can airblast back rockets and stickies and Jarate
all that kind of fun stuff.
If you do that, you're leaving your Engineer alone. There's plusses and minusses with everything that you do.
So kinda set it up however you want, there's a lot of different ways to play this map and there's a lot of wrong ways.
And it's a little more difficult than some people really think it is, because they just think it's stalematey and you're standing around and wrangle the gun.
Yeah.
High five.
[Fixxxer] Oh yeah.
[Hein] So that's... okay, I'll just kind of keep naming off classes we've done.
The Scout, we've done the Sniper, we've done the Soldier, we've done the Demo pretty much. You can just be really aggressive with Demo, it's a lot of fun.
Just spam, just spam. Medic and Heavy, you always want to stay together. If you want to do this banana push, that's perfectly fine, and you can just hold this area.
Or you could swoop around this way, and try to cut them off, so they can't get out.
That sounded Canadian.
So that they can't get out, and then you have other people pushing the front side and get a good sandwich going.
But always, your Heavy wants to be with your Medic. At all times pretty much.
If your Heavy dies, your Medic wants to be less aggresssive and just hold for a minute, because if you try to push without your Heavy,
it really doesn't work that well, for the most part, it kind of depends on the skill level of the team you're fighting.
Another alternative which - we were kind of doing these earlier for Soldier - is at the very start, have him go through the tunnel.
Have him whip out a few people going high so he can keep going fast,
and then once he gets here, he can do a double straight over and behind them.
Or, the one I was really practicing was off of this door, or right off of this door right here.
And the good thing about that is that you can do it when their Sniper is up, and you won't really peek at all.
So you'll come out, and you'll just instantly go, and then you're all the way over.
You can do it from both doors. Whichever side the Sniper's on is the side you want to do it on because you want to get in his face immediately.
And what Moose and I found earlier is: you can rocket jump right off of this all the way to the other side with the Original.
It's kind of a slower jump because you're just using one, and you might get picked out of the air. But, you can't do it with the Sticky Jumper.
Well we- [Moose] Rocket Jumper. [Hein] We couldn't. Yeah Rocket Jumper, sorry. Yeah you can definitely do it with the Sticky Jumper.
But with the Rocket Jumper, for some reason it's barely too short. You can just hit it and fall straight down.
But that's a really fun one to do if you have a really good jumping Soldier.
And it's a lot of fun, I enjoy it. Demo can do the same thing - he can just jump up high, and then you've kinda split their attention.
And that's always good; if you have your team knowing exactly what they're doing, you can just kind of focus on killing, while they're focussed on
deflecting attention, and putting out damage. And you can wipe them, pretty much.
If you, well obviously if you do it right.
Pyro, either he stays in the flag room, or he stays with the Medic, and just reflects things away.
He can do a lot of work at mid cause there's so much going on at once - this is one of the few maps where you're just instantly right with the other team.
And you have to face them because there's no where else to go.
And Fixxxer gave an alternative for what the Spy usually does.
There's a lot of different things he could do. He could push straight in like Fixxxer does.
Or he could be more combat like I think Hei, and I don't want to quote him if he doesn't do this but,
Or Kessel. I think Kessel definitely did this. He would stay out at mid and he would go for kills immediately.
[Fixxxer] Just sniping.
[Hein] Yeah, just shooting people, backs Evan however he could. Getting the combo.
Go up the top and then expect them to go up here, and then maybe go for stairstabs or trickstabs, get in behind here,
uncloak on the health, and then just come straight up. A lot of teams do that because it's such turmoil.
The Spy can be a big pain at this mid. Especially if they're really good at facestabs and sidestabs, because you can't do a whole lot to stop that.
So if your Spy's good at that, by all means, use him in whichever way you really want to.
Diversity is fun. Engineer, he's just going to build up at last. We'll go over some good gun spots.
There's really good gun spots and then there's really bad gun spots, cause you can't rely on the wrangler to do all your work.
So you want to get it in a spot where it's not easy to take down and basically, they have to pop an über or they have to Bonk in or sap or whatever.
You know, teamwork.
So that's kind of mid. [Moose] Right. [Hein] That is if you win mid.
[Moose] And correct me if I'm wrong but if you can hold mid you basically have won.
If you can maintain that hold on mid, they can't get past and then there's no way they're capping.
[Hein] Yeah. [Moose] So mid should be your first priority. Obviously the point is to get the intel.
But having mid definitely helps a lot.
[Hein] If you hold mid, you want to push, but you also want to maintain your hold on that mid.
You don't want everybody to go in and then just lose it, because then they're just going to counterpush and they're gonna,
obviously they just wiped you out, and then you lost mid. So leave the Demo or leave a Scout roaming around.
Or just something, that can be there to say "Hey, they're coming this way!", and your Engineer knows what to look for.
Or your Sniper. Obviously your Sniper is not going to move in too far, except maybe in the banana.
[Fixxxer] This is one thing I do as Spy. Basically on this map, I'm everybody's ***. I do things to help other people get the job done.
And what we usually do is, we'll have our Sniper looking on the flag here, and I'll stand over here and opening the door for them.
[Hein] Yeah. And you gotta watch out for that because we've played this a few seasons in a row now cause everybody seems to love it.
And what'll happen is: their Sniper will be all the way back in there and you can only see his head.
If your Medic is here healing - like you can see me pretty well, but I can't see you.
I can barely see you. So, if you're gonna do that kind of doorhold, make sure your Medic knows, because I've had this happen a few times
where I'll be back here kind of building making sure everybody's healed up, checking for Spies.
And then someone opens the door, and I get sniped.
And it's the most infuriating thing ever, so make sure your Medic knows that you're gonna open the door for him.
Even if the Sniper says "Hey open the door for me", check with your Medic first, or make sure everyone's watching.
Cause you don't want to drop a Heavy or Medic just because your Sniper wanted a kill.
Greedy ***.
[Moose] Right. [Hein] But you want to watch out for this, there's a lot of sticky spots. They fixed this it looks like.
Cause in the past you could hide stickies up in there, and it wasn't clipped. So it looks like it's fixed.
But you still want to watch for stickies up high on the walls. On the backside of this is really big.
There's a lot of little, stupid spots. If think they fixed some of the other clipping things that were back here.
There's like an alarm bell that you could put it in.
I don't remember, but if you're going to push this way, it's very tough, because you're coming out of a little door, you can get spammed really easy by their demo.
So you might want to fork your push. Have some go high through the tunnel, have some go through main,
and just go through it. The Medic generally probably wants to go main more often than not.
So if that's the case, he needs to watch for stickies on the bell, on the backside of this wall where the scorch marks are.
Any corner that you go around, right here is a big one, or there, and right here.
So whoever is being pocketed at the time: they need to be your Spy-checker.
You need to watch through this window. It's a really great tool. You can see who's in there, where the gun is sometimes.
See whether they are on the right side or the left side. And watch and see if they're watching you.
That's another big one, because on defense, you know they're going to be looking through there, and they're just going to see you,
And they're like "Oh hey, they're pushing in now. Get ready."
Yeah, yeah. Picture time.
So know your enemy, and make sure you see them. A new addition is this right here.
It was in the b1 edition, and I think it was crates that time.
But it seems like it's been added and that's going to change quite a bit how this is played.
Cause in the past, the only was most classes could get up here was with a teleporter set right there, or there was a glitch jump that you could do.
Seems like they've fixed it. Or jump on this little thing, which I think is also fixed.
So, they fixed both of those, and they added this in. That's gonna mean that that's going to now going to be an escape route for pretty much every class that needs it.
And it's a way for the defense to also chase. Cause another thing, Scouts would come in, or Soldiers would go and they would rocket jump up, and they would just be gone.
And no one could really chase them, they'd just kind of shoot at them. But now they can chase.
Or they could try to cut you off through here, possibly. It could work, it depends on the situation.
But you gotta watch out for that, it's a big thing now.
And your push on here needs to be very calculated. As I say, in every movie and all I continue to say it,
The first thing that your Heavy needs to shoot at is the Pyro.
Because the Pyro will ruin your über if you allow him to.
So, focus him down. Make their Medic pop the über on the Pyro, and then everyone else kinda has a free game on shooting everything.
Because the Pyro getting übered is going to focus on your über getting wasted, and he's not going to do too much damage to anybody else
and if he does, that means he's... well he's just going to focus on the combo, that's how it always works.
So have everybody else push in at the same time from high or the other door, and kill everything else that's not being hit.
And that'll work. It always works. Wrangler is not very effective on this map.
Some teams will see that it is because they are being assertive in their pushes.
So once that Pyro's down, the Demoman's main job - his only job to me - is to kill the gun.
While that über's being focussed, while it's being wrangled, it can only shoot one person at a time. So focus it down quick, kill the Engineer, kill the gun.
Doesn't take too much. If you've got a Soldier and a Demo both shooting it, it's gonna go down almost instantly.
And it's pretty beautiful.
This space back here is also newly renovated. They took down the little gate that was sitting here. The little uh... word.
Ramp. We'll call it a ramp. [Moose] Right.
[Hein] So you could put guns here. This will give you a higher vision up there, when before it was right here, you'd basically already be on top of it and could shoot it really easily.
But now, they can see you and they can shoot that whole back wall with rockets and just wrangle up there and just see it really easily.
So watch out for that, cause it's a big deal.
And it's a pretty good spot. I'd say put it right here. Not so much over here because it'd be really easy to get picked from the one way.
Well I guess it's not a one way, but the door back there.
So right in the middle of the room is really good, it'll watch all the doors, it'll give you good vision. You want both doors watched, and up high.
And it'll also watch over there, which is good.
So watch out for that, that's one good spot. The other one that I've seen is right back here.
The flaw with it is they basically have the whole flag room they can push in. And then just spam it from right here.
But hopefully your defense is there, and that's gonna be how you defend it. You're not relying on just the gun, it's more of a bait to get them to push in and pop the über really late.
The other one I've seen is right here, which is okay.
That's going to make it where they can't shoot it from up high very easily, unless they show themselves completely.
And, if they pop in, they can't really do a whole lot of work, it's kind of hard to peek because they're fully visible here as well.
I lost you.
I'm right here. [Moose] I was looking at the gun spot from up top.
[Hein] Ah right.
The other one is here. Right here in the dead center.
They can't really peek it from here because they're fully visible from both sides.
They can't get it from up here, and they can't really get it from the stairs really easily.
This is more of a forward hold, and it also works pretty well. All these gun spots can work incredibly well.
Another spot is right here, where I'm at. You can wrangle it all the way through the front door.
Or you could put it right here so that it does this. If you're gonna do that, you gotta watch out for Spies because you're gonna be looking up here,
and you've got 10, 15 feet of Spy zone.
And it's very common for Engineers to get backstabbed. I think Engineers should generally not get backstabbed unless they're wrangling.
And then at that point, if he's wrangling, someone needs to be kind of giving him a helping hand.
But that's your push, and you want to kill as much as you can.
If you don't want to do a full-on push. Say, your team is conformtable with just holding that mid and you want to send in some suicide team,
one that works out pretty well is the Soldier coming from up here, rocket jumping down then rocket jumping straight back out.
It's just like it was in Vitalism.
It's a little bit longer, so what you could do is have your Spy say "I'm sapping right now".
He starts to sap, Soldier RJs in. A little lower, not like that. And then he's out.
Or he does this jump right here, and just having a double, he's already all the way to here.
And the gun didn't have to go down, the Engineer can't focus him at all, and he's gone.
There's nothing he can do about it, and then they're basically relying on their team being outside to stop him and cutting him off.
Same goes for Scout. Scout's a little bit slower but it works just as well.
Make sure your Soldier is not using the Rocket Jumper, because he can't grab the flag with it.
So it would be really fun, but it's... you know.
It's one of those things. I think it'd be awesome to allow it too, cause they can't kill anything.
[Moose] I dunno. Okay, let's go ahead turn this around then. Say you lose mid.
[Hein] Okay. [Moose] And now you're trying to hold, your Engineer happened to get a gun up on last but you guys are respawning or coming back through.
[Hein] I would go down here for the most part. Depending on what classes-- where are you?
[Moose] Actually, I don't know why I was switching sides, I'm sorry.
I'm still here. [Hein] We'll just do a push out.
[Moose] Yeah that's fine.
[Hein] Okay, cat!
Yeah
Alright, you would want to have everyone come down the stairs, re-establish yourselves in the flag room.
Get a few people up top since it's so easy to do now.
And get some stickies up over there.
Make your Spy or Scout or someone go through the tunnel to make sure that they're not pushing out that way.
And if you get any kind of picks, or you get über before they do somehow, because they're just held so long,
You could push out on them. This is not one of those maps where if you fail an über, you're definitely going to lose.
Because you should never wipe when you push like that.
What should happen is: you pop your über, you heal as many people as you can and spread it out if you need to.
If you get a lot of kills, great you stay, but your Medic needs to make a decision at about the 40% mark whether he needs to stay or leave.
I generally leave at about the 20% mark because it gives me enough time usually to get around a wall and get away.
And I can survive, and you want your Heavy to also be able to do that with you.
Or your Pyro, or someone that can defend you. Not a Sniper or an Engineer; someone that can put out some damage.
So you'll always want to get out, and if you do that and your team also does it, you can scatter and once their über's over, you can repush on them.
Just redo the whole thing, all over again.
And it should make it where you can get 10 fairly quickly... kinda depends on how even the teams are.
We've played this quite a bit and usually we will... well I think we've always capped out on it.
We've got 9 points usually in the first round, and then the last round we just get it as soon as we can.
We've done it with Bonus and Ranch, I think there's a few different ones.
And it's always really good matches, or scrims. I don't know if we've played Bonus on this as a match,
but try to play teams that are even with you. Because say you put your gun right where Moose is at.
And you've got your Engineer back here whacking away at it, and their team just can't get by it
and you think "Man, this is the best gun spot ever", but the other team's not very good and they're not very coordinated.
If you play a good team, they're just going to roll around the corner and kill it
or they'll do the Soldier jump down into the flag room from high, and you don't even have to touch the gun.
So think about the level you're playing at, and who you're playing.
So if you're Steel, I would say scrim Silver teams. If you're Silver play Platinum. If you're platinum play top Platinum.
Always try to excel, always try to do things differently, change things up, weird strats can work really well.
Like a lot of Pyros now are playing in 6s full-time a little bit.
And it's changing things, it's really fun. It's not always effective, but you know, people are learning stuff and it's pretty cool.
So, just change it up, switch it around. Change who you über in.
Maybe über in your Pyro and try to clean them up, or über in your Scout.
There's a lot of stuff you can do.
It's good times. So when you're pushing out you need to again: watch for stickies, because they're probably gonna be everywhere.
Push out the banana or push out main. If you push out main, you want someone to already be out here, just saying "Hey they're here".
As long as they don't put a mini-sentry or a level 3 out here, your Soldier, Sniper and Scout can pretty much roam here at all times.
It's kind of uncanny how the mid is empty after a certain bit of time.
And they can just go around and flank and clean up. If you call out that they're in the banana, your Scout can go out the main door,
circle all the way around and behind them and drop the Med.
Cause a lot of people won't turn around, so you have to remember to turn around and look.
Cause I know people like Fixxxer love to do that kind of stuff.
If you're all looking the same way--
Well if I'm watching him come up here knowing that they're going to go banana, just decloak right here and get them.
But right here, this is one of my favorite spots.
Just wait for them to walk right by me.
Decloak here and I'm just right behind them.
So, remember the backcaps. Watch out for the sneaky classes, the Scout and the Spy.
Your Engineer needs to be vocal on this map. If he's getting hurt at all, someone needs to go back and help him out.
Or always keep the Pyro back with him, using the Powerjack, I think it is.
Or the... [Moose & Hein] Homewrecker [Hein] Homewrecker.
So you could knock off sappers and it's great, it's really frustrating and it's awesome.
[Fixxxer] Very frustrating.
[Hein] Anything that can hurt the Spy I love.
Huzzah.
So you push mid, and you got it. You're no longer on the backfoot and you're in control.
We're kind of back to how we were, because it's really not that complicated once you get out here.
And you just kind of roll over. And you just switch over from the defensive mode back into offensive mode.
You want to make sure that they can't get a push out, so maybe sticky up high or sticky this door.
Get your combo on that left side, where they can avoid the Sniper from pretty much all positions.
And we'll do another door check for Snipers. So, if you can get a majority of the doors where you can get sniped, you're doing well.
So, how many doors can I get sniped from from this spot as a Medic.
There's a possible chance from up here, so you need to stand right here where I'm at right now.
You could possibly get sniped through the stair from way down there.
And that means that they are all the way peeking out - I'll go down there if you want to stand where the Medic is.
He would have to be all the way right here to get you, and they'll do it. I remember bot did it to me a few times.
And ***'s done it as well, quite a bit. This whole thing you can shoot through as a Sniper.
So they'll just line their dot up and they'll wait for you to run into it and then just pop your head off.
So, with that being the case, you need to make sure that someone is spamming this door.
And obviously they're not gonna get you from here because your team's all there.
And down there's a big one.
So that means, you probably can get sniped from 2 out of the 4 doors.
If you're paying attention or your team is doing the right thing, then you shouldn't. Ever.
If that's the one that you're really worried about, have your Demo sticky it up.
Have something over there. Just watching the stairs so they can't do anything.
You need to plan exactly what you're going to do. You need to say "Okay, so and so you need to do this, and you need to focus on this."
So your Soldier goes high, your Scout goes high and Bonks in. Your Spy goes from the respawn.
Everyone needs to know exactly what they're gonna do, so that once you get in there it's not just mayhem.
Everyone needs to really understand their jobs and their roles.
And that makes calling really easy. And you can name these plays, just say "Alright this is the Soldier jump", and everyone knows "Soldier's going high, Scout's going high, Spy's going respawn".
Or you say "Okay we're going to do the Scout play", where the Scout goes high, he Bonks in, everyone pushes in through the main door.
So all you'll have to say is a play name, and they'll all do it.
The other big one is when you're doing this kind of formation, where you're splitting up your team,
you need to make sure everyone knows when to push in.
Sometimes you need to delay one of those others ones so that it can work.
Like, if you want your main to push in, you want your Soldier up top to wait. Or if you want your Spy to go in and sap, everyone else needs to wait before he calls it.
So it's like a delayed push a little bit.
So you can say "Okay so and so you push out at this time, and everyone else push at this time".
So they just look up at the clock and say "Okay, it's 15 minutes in. I need you to push in at 5:15, everyone else push in at 5:20".
Try not to make it where it's 30 seconds away or a minute away because then you're just kind of standing around stagnating.
That's the best way to coordinate a push in my eyes, and I think Syndicate is getting better at it,
and Looking Handsome obviously was really good at it because it was so difficult to beat us.
And we just knew exactly what we wanted to do and if you ever had a bad push, don't get mad.
Don't point fingers, don't blame people. Things happen.
Just say "Okay, this is what happened, you got killed by this class. Next time, you need to watch out for that class."
or "Someone else needs to be watching that class so you can do your job".
And once you start pointing fingers, it's really tough to focus and pay attention, so you need your leader or someone that's really positive
to just kind of be an upper for the team. Just say "Don't worry about it, we got this. Let's just go ahead and keep going,
and we'll make it through it. The next push, we're gonna do it".
And generally with that positive attitude, and the DM skill obviously, you'll be able to do it.
With a coordinated push, anything can happen.
Even if it's a bad call, and I've had some bad calls in the past, if you make a bad call and you push in at the wrong time,
but everyone's coordinated and they do their job, it works out. It can still work out very well, and people that are watching don't know that it was an accident.
They just say "Man that was really well coordinated. It was at a weird time, but maybe they were just being aggressive".
Congratulations, Rainbow Dash.
You got something special.
[Moose] I don't have those notifications on.
[Hein] Lucky.
You all need to see the love.
But that's about it for the pushes. I think it's very important, and that's not just a capture the flag thing. That's every single map.
You can use that kind of strategy and style, and you can do a lot of work.
So, what would you add Fixxxer? What from your perspective, when you're not just pushing,
say your whole team is back in your base, you don't have über, you're at like 20%, they've got über or kritz. Let's say they've got kritz.
What would your main focus be? Who would you coordinate with? Would you go for the flag to pull them back, or would you go for the attack.
[Fixxxer] Man I've been trying to get my team to go with the 'naming the place' thing, and they're like "that's too cereal".
It's killing me.
Yeah, well, what I would probably do is cause a little bit of trouble over at the flag and then try and pull them back.
Use Embryo. Embryo and I work really well on this map.
If we just want to capture the flag or if we just want to cause enough trouble for them to pull perhaps the Pyro and the Soldier back into the flag room, it's usually what we would do.
[Hein] Yeah, I like that. And we also need to point this out: you can still go under here.
And it is pretty cool.
So watch out for Spies going under there. Watch out for everything going under there.
It's pretty sneaky. Spies and Scouts both are very good at hiding down there.
[Fixxxer] But if I were really looking to grab their attention, if they're just holding mid.
Dead Ringer. I would go Dead Ringer and start harassing and annoying. It usually draws enough attention to perhaps get a pick or two for my other guys.
[Hein] Alright. So that's... I think that's pretty good. It works.
When you pull away it's like backcapping in 6s. If their team is just starting their push but you go all the way around them and you start capping,
they're going to have to turn around, and they're not going to be able to focus. So I think that's genius.
And it works.
Except for that jump, that was pretty awful.
[Fixxxer] And when you have someone like Embryo, I don't have to do anything but sap and let him do all the work.
[Hein] Yep. Embryo is very very wonderful.
His stream is also really funny.
[Moose] Let's review mechanics real quick. You can't cap with either of the Jumpers right?
So you can't just have a Demo do a super-fast sticky jump with the Jumper right? [Hein] Correct.
[Moose] How long are respawns on this map? Do you know off the top of your head?
Do you want to find out? [Hein] I'm gonna guess 15 seconds.
Yeah go ahead.
I'm not going to kill myself, my K/D ratio...
How long?
[Moose] Readying up.
Any other mechanics you can think of with this map? Just to...
Are halves 7 or 9 caps?
[Hein] I thought it was 10.
[Moose] For halves? [Hein] Unless we changed it.
I don't know about halves.
Twenty minutes!
[Moose] Twenty minutes? That's not cool.
[Hein] Oh I got an Overdose.
[Moose] There you go. [Hein] It is 15 seconds.
[Moose] 15 seconds, okay. [Hein] Correct.
Okay, cool.
[Moose] Alright, anything else? Any last thoughts about this, either of you?
[Fixxxer] Well, for me, generally, my two primary objectives when I play Spy on this map.
When it is to sap the sentry for whoever is going in there. Whether it's an über or Embryo the Scout. Whatever.
The other job I have is refreshing the intel. If the intel makes it anywhere in the Z, or anywhere else.
If the intel needs refreshing it's a suicide mission for me basically. This is easily the map that I die most on.
It's suicide mission after suicide mission.
But refreshing that intel, it can just buy enough time to get your team over there to grab it.
[Moose] Yeah I forgot about that too. If you guys don't quite make it, send your Spy in real quick just to decloak and grab the intel before it resets all the way back to their spawn.
How long does it take for an intel reset?
[Hein] It's quite a while.
[Moose] Let's find out. [Fixxxer] Wasn't that reduced recently?
[Hein] Was it? [Moose] Probably. [Hein] It'd be nice.
[Fixxxer] But yeah, there have been times where I've refreshed it 6 or 7 times in a row. Just refresh refresh refresh.
Until my team can get out there and grab it.
[Moose] Right.
[Hein] Kill yourself.
[Moose] Well that's not nice.
[Hein] lol
[Moose] Alright so like, 18:05, 15 second respawn.
[Hein] And you can definitely get back out by that time. Unless they totally changed that in rc2.
It is currently at... [Moose] 20 seconds. [Hein] the...
Here is the halfway mark. Right... now.
And this is a timer, guys. If you don't know that, this little thing above it isn't just a weird symbol.
It's the timer for how long it's got.
[Moose] Oh wow. I've been playing this game for 2 years and I've never noticed that.
You can see that now that I'm pointing at it. You see the timer moving down on it.
[Fixxxer] Sexy.
[Moose] Wow, okay.
[Hein] Yeah. So how long is that? That's a 1 minute timer looks like.
[Moose] Something like that.
[Hein] Yeah, it's a 1 minute time. So, you've got tons of time to dive in it.
You're going to have to watch out for the Engineer, cause he's going to build outside and try to block, and you're gonna watch out for stickies.
[Fixxxer] And Pyro.
[Hein] Do some tandem jumps. I really like it when you get your Demo to jump in as well.
And while he is coming in, he lands and instantly jumps back out. And just as he's landing he's already shot his sticky, so he just lands and he's instantly gone.
That works really well.
Soldier can do the same things. Spy obviously can just refresh it over and over.
It works. It works out.
And you can jump forever on this map. There's so much room.
[Moose] Especially with the ceiling.
[Hein] Yeah it's a good jump map. I enjoy it.
[Moose] Dem jumpmap skills. [Hein] Let's do Blitzkrieg real quick.
[Moose] Yeah let's do a quick Blitzkrieg.
[Hein] I'll just explain it cause I don't want to do it.
So what you'll do is: you'll have your Scout go straight to their flag room.
Your Spy gets there as quick as he can.
If they're building a gun up, or it's already level 1, you have your Scout just kind of wait and say "Hey they're building up, just wait."
So your Spy goes straight in. He doesn't wait for anything, he just uncloaks, he doesn't care if the Engineer sees him.
He also wants to sap, he doesn't want to die, so he needs to make sure that he can get there and sap it.
And while that's going on, your Soldier's getting there as quick as he can, doing his jumps, and he can be very fast. So he's there as a back-up.
And your Spy's sitting there, he's harassing the Engineer. If they've got a Pyro, that is going to take a little more coordination.
It's okay if your Spy dies, but you need to make sure that right as you sap it, your Scout comes in, and kills the Pyro.
So then, you can kind of focus and maybe the Spy can go get the health over there, or leech it off the dispenser.
It might not be built yet cause it's so fast.
And once your Soldier's there, if everything's already cleaned up, he goes ahead and he circles over here, and he takes over this area.
They're going to pull back people, either by the main way or by here.
So, he needs to watch that and if they come in really hot, he just gets out and waits.
And once the Engineer comes back, he kills him.
That being said, you want to take over the mid with the rest of your team.
And at this point you can basically chain cap over and over and over, and you can take over their flag room.
Once the gun's down it's like, priority number one for the most part for the Spy, keep the gun down as much as you can,
and allow your Scout just to run caps.
Make sure you've got the bind for dropping the flag.
It's very important cause if your Heavy picks it up, you don't want him just to kill himself and you don't want a four minute cap time.
[Moose] I think by default that is L, but some people unbind that or change it, so.
[Hein] Yeah. See I've got a problem because mine is usually R, but when I'm not playing capture the flag, it's my "Permission to land: Denied" bind.
So there've been times where I will be in a match, and I'll pick up the flag and I'll hit the bind, and be like "Oh, I'm done...".
So I have to go bind it. Make sure you know what it is as well, it's "dropitem" or "dropitems". One or the other. So if you forget to bind it, you can just bind it really fast.
Just go on the console and type: "bind" space, whatever letter, and then whatever the command is, "dropitem" or "dropitems", and it'll instantly fix.
It's very good to know.
[Moose] I'll try it, I'm gonna try and make sure "dropitem" is it.
But that's really about it for Turbine unless you guys can think of anything else.
[Hein] Oh I can talk a lot about this map, there's a lot of stuff you can do but I don't think we really need an hour long for this one.
[Moose] Yeah it looks like "dropitem" is correct.
[Hein] So one thing I will bring up: we have had a request from the Asia division to see if we get Closed Captioning, because they love watching these - shoutout to you guys, it's really awesome that you're with us now.
But, they can't always understand what we're saying, cause we're fast-speaking Americans.
And I think they really enjoy these a lot so let's see how hard it is to get Closed Captioning going, I dunno if that's even possibile.
Does YouTube automatically do that?
[Moose] I'm not sure, I mean I could try to transcript what we're basically saying and translate or something.
Google Translate that is, but if anyone would like to help in Closed Captioning these, that would be way, way appreciated.
Especially if you're fluent in both English and 'a' Asian language. I'm not even fluent in English, what am I doing?
[Hein] I think the annotations work out really well in the descriptions. We go through each class, each push, each hold whatever. That also helps people split it up really easily.
[Moose] Right.
Hey! Hey. Jerk.
[Hein] One last ***-out before we leave.
Monochromatic Bunny has started a petition; we're going to try and get colorblind mode actually working in TF2.
So there is a petition that's going around. It's on Reddit, Steam forum, UGC forum, TeamFortressTV forum.
Last I checked it was over 500 signatures already, in like 4 days. So hopefully it's a lot higher now.
But, I think that would be very helpful to a lot of people. Even if you're not colorblind or only see black and white like Bunny.
It would be helpful because sometimes it's really not that easy to see classes. Like watch lolcano; both teams look red.
[Moose] Yeah, could you imagine seeing in greyscale a room like this? Like I've got you up against the coloring of that area.
Your pants are the same blue as the dark blue at the bottom and your coat's the same blue at the top.
It would be impossible for someone to see in greyscale who you are. 0:46:06.201MI,0:46:06.700 [Hein] It's like a chameleon.
[Moose] Right. So...
That's one of the causes that UGC has picked up on recently. If you haven't signed the petition, just do it. It's really easy.
[Hein] And you don't even have to put your name. You can keep that hidden, just fill everything else out and you will remain anonymous, but you'll still be helping out a lot.
[Moose] Right.
[Hein] It's good times. I think that's all I've got. Fixxxer you got any shoutouts?
[Fixxxer] Oh no no I don't, besides my team gR. Rock on.
[Hein] gunRunners.
[Moose] Well that sounds good to me guys, this is Moose, and obviously I'm going to put all those links in the description and try to get this up asap.
And we will always be around forums, comments, anywhere. Same as usual - if you've got questions we'll answer them.
Hit us up, don't be afraid. Moose signing out.