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PAUL JAY: Welcome to The Real News Network. I'm Paul Jay in Baltimore.
On February 26: the next round of negotiations with Iran and what they call the P5+1--that's
the UN Security Council plus Germany. And they're going to continue to see if they can
negotiate what they call an end to the Iranian nuclear arms program, except none of the American
intelligence agencies says there in fact is a nuclear arms program in Iran. Iran denies
that there is. But that doesn't mean there isn't sanctions against Iran and continuing
verbal speak from the various leaders, from President Obama to Netanyahu in Israel, and
other places that keep talking as if Iran is on track to a nuclear weapon.
But at any rate, that's not what this story's about. This story as about the fact that the
meeting is taking place in Kazakhstan, a place we don't talk about or hear about very much.
And now joining us to talk about why the meetings are in Kazakhstan and tell us a little bit
about Kazakhstan is Allen Ruff. He's a U.S. social historian and a freelance writer and
recently been spending a lot of time focusing on the study of Kazakhstan.
Thanks for joining us, Allen.
ALLEN RUFF: Well, thank you, Paul. Good to be back.
JAY: So, first of all, why Kazakhstan? Why the meeting there? Is there any special significance
to it being there?
RUFF: Well, first of all, you know, as you said, we learn and we hear very little about
Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan is currently, you know, the former Soviet republic. It's currently
the ninth-largest country in the world. It has a 4,000 mile border with Russia,
an 1,100 mile border to the east with China, and it straddles--it's at the top of
the so-called Stans. It's large, it's oil-, energy-rich, and, significantly for this story,
right now it's the world's largest producer of uranium--it has known reserves of about
15 percent of the world's total and currently provides upwards, now, of approximately 35 percent
of all uranium in the world--again, a major shipper and producer of uranium.
JAY: And also I've learned through my conversations with you, one of the state investment companies,
I guess it is, of Kazakhstan has money in Toshiba and in Westinghouse, both of which
make nuclear reactors.
RUFF: Right. Unlike the former Soviet Union--or Russia, when the Soviet Union imploded, Kazakhstan
maintained the ruling clique in Kazakhstan, headed by Nursultan Nazarbayev, the current
leader for life in the country, president for life, leader of the nation. They formed
large holding companies that have doled out concessions to various private firms, primarily
multinational energy firms.
JAY: And not only are they resource-rich and uranium-rich--I think they're the largest
producer of uranium in the world now, and they're involved in nuclear reactors, as I
said, but Kazakhstan was also the home, to a large extent, of the Soviet nuclear industry,
was it not? So there's a whole intellectual base there, is there?
RUFF: Right. A great deal of that was eroded. True, it was the proving ground for Soviet
nuclear weapons testing above-ground, the missile program and so on, from the '50s forward.
There's a whole, huge northeast quadrant of Kazakhstan that is currently still irradiated
from those tests.
And then, early in the '90s, right after the independence of Kazakhstan in '91, the country
began to disarm itself, shipping missiles and nuclear warheads to Russia, destroying
silos, and so on. That came in part out of an inducement by the U.S., funding to the
tune--I believe, in the early '90s, the tune of $800 million in U.S. aid to the country
that was just in shambles at that time.
Again, the country now has these vast industrial extractive holding companies. One of the most
significant now, of course, is Kazatomprom, the nuclear holding company lorded over by
the regime. And they give out concessions and wheel and deal in not only mined uranium,
but processing of uranium. They're increasingly entering the nuclear reactor business and
have partnerships with a number of international firms, most significant among them Toshiba
in Japan. They ship a large amount of uranium to Japan, and according to some reports, actually
increased shipments to Japan in the aftermath of the Fukushima disaster. Toshiba owns--.
JAY: Before we get more into that, let me just back up one step. Why do we think the
meetings are there? Is there some special significance, given it's about Iran's nuclear
program and Kazakhstan has such a background in this?
RUFF: Right. Well, central to it is a proposal now coming from the Kazakhs that had previously
come from the Russians to create an international fuel bank, that is, the production and storage
of nuclear fuel, low-yield nuclear fuel for, quote-unquote, peaceful reactors for energy,
which would mean that there are some 40 countries in the world now that are seeking to build
nuclear reactors.
But a big concern, of course, has been--at least as trumpeted by the heads of the Security
Council, with the U.S. in the lead, has been this concern that Iran get its nuclear weapons.
So they're now saying to Iran, look, Kazakhstan is willing to provide you with the uranium
for your reactors for peaceful use, for energy use. And at this point it's totally unclear,
it's doubtful, in my estimation, that Iran will pick up on that.
Again, Nazarbayev wants to become an international player. It's energy-rich, it's strategically
located, and they've developed what is called the multivectored strategy of aligning itself
with everyone in the region. They talk, for instance, of while playing a Russia card,
shipping gas at this point, natural gas, to China. They've also allowed in major U.S.
corporations. It's become a center of soft and hard power, strategic interest for the
U.S. And at the same time, Nazarbayev just recently talked about the neighbor across
the Caspian Sea to the southwest, that is, Iran, being a fellow Muslim country and that
Kazakhstan seeks friendly relations, peaceful relations with everyone in the region.
JAY: Now, one of the reputations the country wants to have is that it's a country that
has more equality than some others that are resource-rich and such. But how true is that?
I saw one statistic. I think it's the top 50 richest people share about $24 billion
and that in fact there's been a lot of social protest precisely about the lack of equality.
RUFF: Well, it's a repressive regime. It's not in any stretch of the imagination a parliamentary
democracy. There is a parliament, but it's dominated by Nursultan Nazarbayev's Nur Otan
Party. It's basically a one-party state, two other minor parties going along with that.
There's an absolute repression going on now that's increased in the past year against
opponents of the regime, dissident voices, opposition newspapers; there are some small
opposition parties; all of them coming under increasing repression--the jailing and fining
of leaders, closing down of offices, the closing down of newspapers. Every well-known international
human rights monitor--Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Freedom House, Reporters
Without Borders, and so on all report an increasingly desperate situation.
There have--while there's no large social movements at this point surfacing in the country,
that plays into--you know, the country presents itself as a region of stability in an unstable
broader region of Central Asia, and there's this percolating tension underneath the surface.
So it's really questionable at this point, at least from those close observers of the
country, whether it's a good idea or not for Kazakhstan to be taking on that kind of role
as a international nuclear bank, energy bank. There's lots and lots going on.
And interestingly, few officials here in the U.S., if any, have spoken out about the actual
nature of the regime and what it means for the people.
There is a growing middle class that has benefited from primarily the energy-rich industries
and the billions of dollars now that have flowed from export of oil and natural gas,
the uranium, as I mentioned, but also other minerals, coal and so on.
JAY: We don't hear very much critique or take on the lack of human rights in Kazakhstan
in American press. Why?
RUFF: Well, again, it's at some level out of sight, out of mind. One has to merely Google
Kazakhstan and human rights and tons of stories pop up all across the board.
I imagine that there will be some coverage somewhat of the country as a bastion of progress
and economic growth and stability. When the U.S. press does refer to the country, it's
usually referred to in economic terms and there's hardly anything ever said about the
absolute nature. I think that has to do with--you know, it fits in the longer history of U.S.
relations with antidemocratic and dictatorial regimes that have some strategic or major
economic interest for the U.S. and the powers that be in this country.
JAY: Right. Alright. Thanks for joining us, Allen.
RUFF: Alright.
JAY: And thank you for joining us on The Real News Network.