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ROB MCCLENDON: SO JEFF, JUST HOW MUCH MONEY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN
MODERN-DAY COLLEGE ATHLETI JEFF BENEDICT: WELL IT'S A BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY.
AND THE REASON THERE IS SO MUCH MONEY IN THE SYSTEM NOW IS THERE'S TWO PRIMARY
CONTRIBUTORS.
ONE IS NIKE, AND THEY'RE THE LESSER OF THE TWO, BUT NIKE HAS CHANGED COLLEGE
FOOTBALL BY APPAREL, MEANING THEY NOT ONLY OUTFIT MOST OF THE
PROGRAMS IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL, UNDER ARMOR IS IN THERE AS WELL.
BUT NIKE IS THE BIG ONE.
THEY NOT ONLY OUTFIT ALL OF THE TEAMS, SO YOU SEE THE CHANGING UNIFORMS AND
THE COLORS AND ALL OF THAT, WHICH IS GREAT.
BUT ON TOP OF THAT AND MUCH BIGGER, FOR NIKE, IS THAT THEY NOW STOCK ALL OF
THE CAMPUS STORES THAT SELL THE APPAREL THAT EVERYBODY IS BUYING AND
WEARING ALL OVER THE PLACE.
THE SWEATSHIRTS, THE CAPS, THE PANTS, THE SHIRTS, IT JUST GOES ON AND ON AND
ON.
THIS IS ALL NIKE.
AND SO IT'S BECOME A BRANDING INSTRUMENT, THE USE AND WEAR OF ALL THESE
COLORS.
SO OREGON STARTED ALL OF THIS WITH THE MULTI COLORED STUFF.
BUT THAT'S BECOME A VERY COOL, HIP THING TO WEAR.
AND IT'S MADE THAT OREGON BRAND GO ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
EVERYBODY NOW RECOGNIZES IT AS THIS, THESE GREEN AND GOLD COLORS, THAT'S
OREGON.
WELL THAT PATTERN HAS NOW FLOWN TO UNIVERSITIES ALL, OKLAHOMA STATE DOES THE
SAME THING WITH EVER CHANGING UNIFORM COLORS.
WHEN YOU DO THAT WITH THE UNIFORM, THAT MEANS YOU CAN SELL FIVE DIFFERENT
COLORED OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY SWEATSHIRTS INSTEAD OF ONE.
IT'S NOT JUST ORANGE.
NOW WE'VE GOT FIVE SHADES.
SO, NIKE IS ONE THING.
THEN MUCH, MUCH BIGGER IS YOU GET ESPN.
THE TELEVISION MONEY THAT HAS COME INTO THE GAME HAS CHANGED COLLEGE FOOTBALL
FOREVER.
YOU THINK ABOUT SIMPLE THINGS LIKE, NOW, THERE ARE COLLEGE FOOTBALL GAMES
ON THURSDAY NIGHTS.
THURSDAY IS THE MIDDLE OF AN ACADEMIC WEEK.
WHEN ESPN COMES TO TOWN BECAUSE YOU'RE ON THURSDAY NIGHT, THEY SHUT THE
CAMPUS DOWN.
BY NOON ON THURSDAY, ON THAT CAMPUS, THERE ARE NO CLASSES.
PARKING LOTS ARE BLOCKED OFF.
YOU KNOW, ESPN CONTROLS WHAT HAPPENS ON THAT CAMPUS.
IT'S JUST CHANGED THE DYNAMICS SO MUCH.
AND IT'S ENABLED TEAMS AND CONFERENCES THAT NORMALLY NEVER GET ON TELEVISION.
SO THE TEAMS THAT ARE RANKED FIFTH AND SIXTH IN THE CONFERENCE, THEY CAN
BE ON NATIONAL TV EVERY WEEK NOW; BECAUSE THERE'S INDIVIDUAL NETWORKS WITHIN
THE CONFERENCES, AND ESPN HAS SPREAD OUT THE GAME MENU ENOUGH THAT, THURSDAY
NIGHT, FRIDAY, AND THEN SATURDAY THEY SPACE THEM FROM 12 TO 4 TO 8.
AND IF YOU'RE ON THE WEST COAST THERE IS EVEN ONE MORE GAME.
THAT TELEVISION MONEY HAS, IS WHAT'S DRIVING THE, WHAT I CALL, BUILDING BOOM
ON CAMPUSES WHERE STADIUMS ARE GOING UP, OR STADIUMS ARE BEING TORN DOWN AND
REBUILT, WHERE FOOTBALL FACILITIES ARE BEING EXPANDED THERE IS ALL
KINDS OF CONSTRUCTION GOING ON, AND THE ESPN MONEY IS THE CATALYST FOR
THAT.
SO ALL OF THESE THINGS, THE APPAREL, THE TELEVISION DEALS, THEY'VE
TURNED COLLEGE FOOTBALL INTO A MEGA BUSINESS THAT IT WAS NOT 15 YEARS AGO.
ROB: SO ONCE AGAIN, YOUR ORIGINAL POINT IS EVERYBODY'S MAKING MONEY
EXCEPT THE STUDENT ATHLETE.
BENEDICT: YEAH, EXCEPT THE STUDENT ATHLETE.
IT'S KIND OF A, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NCAA BEHAVIOR IN RECENT YEARS, WHEN YOU
GO, WHEN YOU DROP THE HAMMER ON SOME KIDS BECAUSE THEY HAD TATOOS
THAT WERE PAID FOR BY SOMEBODY ELSE, OR BECAUSE YOU HAVE A HIGH PROFILE
PLAYER WHO SIGNED SOME AUTOGRAPHS AND HE'S ACCUSED OF MAYBE GETTING A
PAYMENT FOR SIGNING HIS NAME ON SOME STUFF.
NOW OF COURSE IF A PRO PLAYER DOES THAT, NOBODY EVEN THINKS TWICE OF IT,
RIGHT?
AND I WONDER WHY, YOU KNOW THIS IS SUCH A BIG DEAL NOW WITH THESE PLAYERS.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A GUY, A QUARTERBACK WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR A
UNIVERSITY MAKING, AGRUABLY, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, AND
HE GETS IN TROUBLE BECAUSE HE MIGHT TAKE A HUNDRED FOR SIGNING HIS NAME ON
SOMETHING.
IN ANY OTHER PLACE IN AMERICA, NO ONE WOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT THAT.
BUT BECAUSE HE'S A COLLEGE ATHLETE THAT'S A BAD THING.
I THINK THAT JUST SHOWS YOU HOW THIS, THE REGULATORY PROCESS FOR THE
NCAA IS WAY OUT OF LINE WITH WHAT'S ACTUALLY GOING ON, ON THE GROUND RIGHT
NOW.
AND THERE'S A LOT OF PLACES WHERE YOU CAN SEE, THEY'VE GOT TO EITHER
CATCH UP OR CHANGE.
ROB: WHO RUNS THE NCAA?
BENEDICT: WELL HERE'S A GREAT THING.
RECENTLY, WHILE WE WERE WRITING THE BOOK, THE PRESIDENT OF THE NCAA WHO
EVERYBODY THINKS RUNS THE NCAA, RIGHT?
THE PRESIDENT OF THE NCAA, MARK EMMERT SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THIS WAS ALL
HEADED, MEANING COLLEGE FOOTBALL AND THE MONEY AND THE DIRECTION OF THE SPORT
NO IDEA WHERE THIS IS ALL HEADED.
IF THE COMMISSIONER OF THE NFL, OR THE COMMISSIONER OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL,
OR THE NBA MADE A STATEMENT LIKE THAT, THE NEXT DAY HE WOULD NOT BE
THE COMMISSIONER.
IF THE COMMISSIONER DOESN'T KNOW WHERE THE LEAGUE IS HEADED, YOU
CAN'T RUN THE LEAGUE.
AND IT JUST SHOWS YOU THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE NCAA IS NOT REALLY RUNNING
THIS IS A TRAIN WITHOUT A CONDUCTOR. 0:04:46.767,1193:02:47.295 THIS.
AND IT'S A FAST MOVING TRAIN WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE ON IT AND A LOT OF MONEY
IN IT.
AND IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A LEADER.
IT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS DIRECTING WHERE WE'RE GOING.
AND I THINK THAT NOBODY REALLY KNOWS, YOU KNOW, WHERE THIS IS ULTIMATELY
HEADED, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A PLAYOFF SYSTEM THAT STARTS NEXT YEAR.
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY POURING INTO THE SYSTEM IS INCREASING BY THE YEAR IN
BIG WAYS.
AND YOU KNOW WHETHER THIS IS GOOD FOR KIDS WHO PLAY COLLEGE FOOTBALL OR NOT, I
DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I TEND TO THINK THAT IT'S GOOD IF YOU'RE IN THIS FOR THE BUSINESS
ELEMENT AND YOU'RE ONE OF THE PEOPLE PROFITTING FROM IT, THIS IS FANTASTIC.
BUT IF YOU'RE A PLAYER, AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO TO THE NFL, I DON'T KNOW.
ROB: TALKING ABOUT ACADEMICS, TYPICALLY FOOTBALL PLAYERS HAVE SOME
OF THE LOWEST GRADUATION RATES.
BLACK FOOTBALL PLAYERS HAVE EVEN LOWER GRADUATION RATES.
AND IN OUR ECONOMY WHERE HAVING A DEGREE, OR MAYBE MORE IMPORTANTLY A SKILL
SET THAT YOU CAN APPLY A TRADE WITH, A LOT OF THESE ATHLETES DON'T HAVE THE
TIME TO EVEN GET THE EDUCATION THAT IS OFFERED TO THE OTHER STUDENTS
AROUND THE UNIVERSITY.
BENEDICT: YEAH, AND I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO WHY THE OLD ARGUMENT FOR, WELL
THEY'RE GETTING A FREE EDUCATION AND THEY'RE GETTING THEIR ROOM AND
BOARD, THAT'S THE TRADEOFF FOR PLAYING.
THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT EVEN FAIR ANYMORE BECAUSE WE CITED A STUDY IN OUR BOOK
THAT SHOWS THAT NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME, COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS ARE NOW
SPENDING MORE TIME ON FOOTBALL RELATED ACTIVITIES PER DAY THAN
THEY ARE ON ACADEMIC RELATED ACTIVITIES IN A DAY.
THAT'S A NEW THING.
THAT'S FOR THE FIRST TIME.
THAT'S A SHIFT THAT SUGGESTS THAT THE TRADEOFF THAT WE'VE BEEN OPERATING
UNDER, FREE EDUCATION IN EXCHANGE FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY
FOOTBALL, MAYBE ISN'T SUCH A GOOD TRADEOFF ANYMORE.
AND THAT'S WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT'S THE OLD MODEL.
BECAUSE YEAH, THEY'RE IN SCHOOL, BUT HOW MUCH OF AN EDUCATION ARE THEY
ACTUALLY GETTING?
LIKE WHAT IS THE QUALITY OF THAT EDUCATION?
IS IT SOMETHING THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TRANSITION INTO A JOB WHEN THEY LEAVE THE
UNIVERSITY?
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO THE NFL, SO CAN THEY ACTUALLY GET, ARE THEY
EMPLOYABLE, GAINFULLY EMPLOYABLE BECAUSE OF THEIR EDUCATION
EXPERIENCE?
AND FOR A LOT OF THESE GUYS THE ANSWER IS NO, THEY'RE NOT.
THEY MAY NOT HAVE A DEGREE.
YES, THEY WERE THERE FOR FOUR YEARS BUT THEY HAVEN'T GRADUATED.
OR WHAT THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN IS GENERAL STUDIES OR SOME OTHER, YOU KNOW,
THING THAT THEY CAN'T TRANSLATE INTO EMPLOYMENT, SO THEY END UP BEING A
SECURITY GUARD AT A WAREHOUSE.
OR THEY'RE WASHING CARS.
OR THEY'RE WORKING AT A CINEPLEX, SELLING TICKETS TO MOVIES.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, THAT, SO THAT'S WHAT THEY GOT?
THAT'S NOT, NOW YOU GO NOW THAT'S REALLY NOT FAIR.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHY YOU'VE GOT, THESE ARGUMENTS THAT ARE GOING
ON RIGHT NOW ABOUT WHETHER TO COMPENSATE PLAYERS, IT'S ALL ON THE SURFACE,
AND IT'S ALL HOLDING ONTO THESE OLD CLICHES.
WELL THEY'RE GIVEN A FREE EDUCATION, THAT'S A GREAT THING YEAH, IT'S A GREAT
THING IF THEY CAN ACTUALLY GET A REAL EDUCATION, A REAL DEGREE, LIKE
STUDENTS.
BUT THEY CAN'T, BECAUSE THE OTHER STUDENTS THAT ARE IN SCHOOL ACTUALLY GET
TO GO TO SCHOOL.
THEY'RE NOT EXPECTED TO SPEND 12 HOURS A DAY IN MEETINGS AND FILM SESSIONS
AND THERAPY IN A HOT TUB WITH A DOCTOR, DOING ALL THIS OTHER STUFF, NOT TO
MENTION TRAVELING AS MUCH AS THEY DO.
I MEAN HOW MUCH TIME CAN YOU REALLY SPEND ON ACADEMICS WHEN YOU'RE
PLAYING A ROAD GAME ON A THURSDAY NIGHT IN ANOTHER STATE?
I MEAN, HOW MUCH STUDYING IS GETTING DONE THAT WEEK?
ROB: WHAT IS THE ROLE THAT COLLEGE PRESIDENTS NEED TO PLAY IN TALKING ABOUT THE
SYSTEM?
BENEDICT: WELL IF COLLEGE PRESIDENTS WERE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT FIXING THE
SYSTEM, AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING IT CAN ALL BE FIXED BECAUSE I THINK A
LOT OF THIS IS BEYOND FIXING.
BUT, IF THE COLLEGE PRESIDENTS WERE SERIOUS ABOUT IMPROVING THE
SITUATION FOR STUDENT ATHLETES WHO PLAY FOOTBALL, THEY'RE THE ONES
WHO REALLY HAVE THE POWER AT THE LEVEL OF THE NCAA.
THE NCAA REALLY ULTIMATELY DOES ANSWER TO THE PRESIDENTS OF THE
UNIVERSITIES.
BUT THE PRESIDENTS ARE JUST SAILING ALONG.
THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE THEY PLUG THEIR NOSE.
ROB: THE SYSTEM WORKS FOR THEM.
BENEDICT: IT DOES WORK FOR THEM.
SO THEY PLUG THEIR NOSE.
THEY PLUG THEIR EARS.
AND THEY SHIELD THEIR EYES BECAUSE A LOT OF WHAT GOES ON HERE, THEY DON'T REALLY
WANT TO KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.
AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED ABOUT CONCUSSIONS AND BRAIN DAMAGE AND ALL OF
THE OTHER RAMIFICATIONS OF THIS SPORT.
BUT THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THAT THEY KNOW ARE KIND OF UGLY.
AND THEY KNOW THIS IS, IT'S THE EXCEPTION.
BUT IT'S ALSO THE FRONT PORCH FOR THE UNIVERSITY THE COLLEGE FOOTBALL
PROGRAMS ARE OFTEN THE BIGGEST MARKETING TOOL THAT THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE
THEY ARE THE REASON THAT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE WEARING THE UNIVERSITY'S
COLORS AND APPAREL ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, IT'S FOOTBALL.
IT'S FOOTBALL THAT B RINGS THE TELEVISION REVENUE.
IT'S FOOTBALL THAT FILLS THE CAMPUS ON SATURDAYS IT'S THE THING AND THEY
KNOW THAT.
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY LIKE IT, BUT THEY KNOW THAT'S THE WAY THE WORLD
IS TODAY.
AND SO THERE ISN'T REALLY A LOT OF PRESIDENTS THAT ARE INTERESTED IN STANDING
UP AND GOING, YOU KNOW WHAT WE HAVE GOT TO REFORM SOME OF THIS.
THEY'RE JUST RIDING ALONG.
ROB: ARE THEY LEAVING THEMSELVES VULNERABLE?
I MEAN WE'VE SEEN THE LAWSUITS ABOUT IMAGE AND WHO OWNS THE IMAGE OF THE
PLAYERS, BUT ALSO IN SOME RECENT LAWSUITS ABOUT CONCUSSIONS THAT YOU
MENTIONED.
BENEDICT: YEAH, I THINK THAT THE CONCUSSION IS A HUGE, THAT THING IS GOING
TO GET BIGGER AND BIGGER.
AS THE AWARENESS GROWS AND THE INJURIES INCREASE.
AND THE INJURIES ARE GOING TO INCREASE.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DECREASE WITH HELMET DESIGN AND ALL THIS STUFF.
THAT'S, THE REASON THE INJURIES ARE GOING TO INCREASE IS BECAUSE
PLAYERS ARE GETTING FASTER, THEY'RE GETTING STRONGER, THEY'RE GETTING
BIGGER, THEY'RE HITTING HARDER AND HARDER.
SO YOU CAN ALL DAY LONG CHANGE RULES ABOUT YOU CAN'T HIT BELOW, YOU KNOW
ABOVE THE NECK, AND YOU, THE HELMET IS BEING REENGINEERED.
THAT DOESN'T MATTER.
IN THIS GAME, WHERE YOU HAVE 22 MEN ON THE FIELD AT A TIME RUNNING FULL
SPEED, THERE ARE GOING TO BE HITS TO THE HEAD.
THEY MAY NOT BE ON PURPOSE, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO HAPPEN.
THERE ARE GOING TO BE PLAYERS THAT CONTINUE TO GET CONCUSSIONS AND
SERIOUS TRAUMA TO THE BODY AND AS THE AWARENESS CONTINUES TO GROW AND THE
STUDIES EXPAND AND MORE BRAINS ARE STUDIED, IT'S GOING TO GET MORE AND MORE
UNCOMFORTABLE FOR PEOPLE TO CHEER FOR THIS BECAUSE WE'RE USED TO SEEING,
GAMES STOP EVERY WEEK.
WE WATCH THE GAME STOP BECAUSE SOMEONE TAKES A HIT THAT REQUIRES THE
MEDICAL PERSONNEL TO TAKE THE FIELD.
AND WE ALL GET QUIET.
AND WE ALL WATCH.
AND WE STAND THERE AND WE WAIT UNTIL HE GETS ON A STRETCHER.
AND THEN WHEN THEY WHEEL HIM OFF WE ALL CHEER, AND THEN WE PLAY ON.
ROB: THE POLITE CLAP, YES.
BENEDICT: WE PLAY ON, UNTIL IT HAPPENS AGAIN.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE ONE AREA WHERE COLLEGE
PRESIDENTS, WHAT YOU WORRY ABOUT IS THE INDIVIDUAL LIABILITY OF AN
INSTITUTION IF YOU DON'T TREAT A PLAYER PROPERLY.
AND WHEN LAWSUITS START TO TURN AWAY FROM THE NCAA, RIGHT NOW IT'S ALL BEING
DIRECTED AT THIS AMORPHOUS BODY IN INDIANAPOLIS.
BUT IF LAWSUITS START TO GET TURNED AND THE DIAL NOW FOCUSES AT A
UNIVERISTY, AT A MEDICAL STAFF, THAT'S WHEN THINGS WILL GET REALLY DICEY;
BECAUSE THAT'S NOT ONLY COSTLY, BUT FROM A PUBLIC RELATIONS STANDPOINT IT'S
VERY UGLY.
AND IT COULD BE THE FUTURE.
ROB: SO IF THERE EVER IS TO BE ANY REAL CHANGE, AND YOU'RE NOT VERY CONFIDENT
ABOUT IT, DOES IT COME DOWN TO US, THE VIEWER, THAT WATCH THE GAME THAT
THE ADVERTISERS PAY FOR AND THAT MONEY BASICALLY GETS FILTERED BACK THROUGH
TO THE INSTITUTIONS?
BENEDICT: WELL WE, WE AS AMERICANS LOVE FOOTBALL.
AND WE TUNE IN AND WE LOVE TO WATCH THE SPECTACLE OF IT ALL.
FRANKLY PEOPLE LOVE THE HITS.
THEY LOVE THE SPEED.
IT'S A GAME THAT HAS A LOT OF VIOLENCE IN IT, BUT IT'S CONTROLLED VIOLENCE.
IT'S LEGALIZED VIOLENCE.
IT'S THE ONE PLACE WHERE YOU CAN GO AND YOU CAN HIT SOMEONE AS HARD AS YOU
POSSIBLY CAN AND IT'S CONSIDERED A GOOD THING.
AND SO, AND PEOPLE LIKE TO WATCH IT.
THE NUMBERS, THE TELEVISION RATING NUMBERS ARE OFF THE CHARTS.
AND SO, NATURALLY THE ADVERTISERS ARE THERE.
AND IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT NEEDS TO COME FIRST TO CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE LOOK
AT FOOTBALL FOR WHAT IT IS.
BUT I JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE THAT CHANGING SOON.
BUT I THINK OVER TIME, IT'S LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, IT JUST HAS TO BUILD AND
PEOPLE HAVE TO LEARN MORE.
IT'S SORT OF LIKE TOBACCO AND CIGARETTES, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.
WE LOOK AT TOBACCO A LOT DIFFERENTLY NOW THAN WE DID 50 YEARS AGO.
AND I THINK FOOTBALL WILL BE LIKE THAT.
WE WILL SEE IT A LOT DIFFERENTLY A GENERATION FROM NOW THAN WE DO NOW.
ROB: WELL JEFF BENEDICT, CERTAINLY A FASCINATING READ, SOMETHING THAT I
THINK WHETHER YOU'RE A FOOTBALL FAN OR YOU'RE INTERESTED IN ACADEMICS
ANYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS BOOK.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
BENEDICT: THANK YOU.