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PETER BARRON: Hello, everybody.
And welcome to Martha.
I hope you're feeling uncomfortably excited.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Always.
PETER BARRON: We've hugged already, so it can only go
well, I think.
We're going to talk for a few minutes.
There's going to be some microphones roving very
shortly, so please have your questions ready.
And if you could, wait for the microphone to come to you
because it's all being recorded.
Now Martha, you all know extremely well, obviously, the
UK's Digital Champion and a great pioneer of the internet
in Britain.
You've been Digital Champion for about three years now.
And unusual, in that you were appointed by a labor
government and kept on by the conservative government.
So a rare case of someone who enjoys cross-party support.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Well, maybe they just have no
idea what I'm doing.
[LAUGHTER]
MARTHA LANE FOX: I just carried on.
No idea.
PETER BARRON: So I think we know what you do, we know what
your aim is.
Can you tell us are you winning?
Are you succeeding in the matter?
MARTHA LANE FOX: [LAUGHS]
I always love #winning.
There's two elements, I guess, to what we've been up to.
And one is more campaigning.
And one is more internally government-focused.
And I'll just give a quick run through of both because
they're quite different.
And they link together, I believe.
But they're interestingly different.
So the first part is about encouraging millions more
people in the UK on the internet.
There are about still 8 and a half million adults who have
never used the internet.
And no big surprises that they are also the most
disadvantaged people and often older people.
So obviously, having been given no resources, I launched
a campaign to try and encourage organizations to do
more or amplify what they were already doing
to get people online.
So that's the external part.
And I think it's going pretty well.
It's hard because it's not often the
top of people's agenda.
It is top of Google's agenda, but it's not top of every
organization's agenda.
But we've done some quite interesting cross-sector
partnerships.
So we've managed to get the BBC in a room with Mecca
Bingo, in a room with the post office.
And you might think, well, how the hell is that going to go?
But actually, it's great because the BBC
can broadcast a message.
The post office can help, actually, people get online
through their network.
And Mecca Bingo can point people, when they're having a
different kind of experience, to say, oh, don't forget, you
can do cool things online as well, in an environment that
they're surprised by.
So actually, one of the powers of what we've been doing is
just convening unusual partnerships, I guess.
But being, ultimately, a bit of a geek, the internal in
government stuff is the stuff that I've really, really
enjoyed, surprisingly--
don't tell anybody--
because of the potential for change and restructuring the
relationship between both citizen and government but
also how government operates within itself and to the
external world is really extraordinary.
PETER BARRON: You originally launched something--
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yes, we did.
PETER BARRON: --in this area, which people
may not know about.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yeah, we launched gov.uk.
I did a report in 2010 that suggested government having
920 web sites at a cost of around half a billion.
It was, perhaps, not the most effective thing, either, for
citizens or for government.
And amazingly, they agreed with me.
I think some of the people who created some of those 920 web
sites probably have death wishes on me.
But we've survived so far.
And the very simple idea behind my report was that,
actually, one domain, maybe multiple front ends, but one
central piece of technology that is absolutely and
relentlessly focused on the end user would be a good place
for government to start and a good way of thinking about how
people use government services online.
And because we're here in Google, I can reveal that,
pretty much, the team at gov.uk, if you look at it,
have copied a pretty well-known web site.
I have no idea what it might be.
But it looks quite familiar to any of you sitting in this
room because, surprise, surprise, there are few
companies have invested on the best possible user experience.
And so trying to take some of that knowledge and use it for
the searching of government databases and, ultimately,
transactional services is kind of exciting.
But the prize is big because not only is it about us, as
citizens, having much better quality services and much
better quality of information, but it's also about making
government fit for purpose for the next 100 years.
And that is pretty important.
PETER BARRON: The last time we met, we were in Liverpool.
MARTHA LANE FOX: We were.
PETER BARRON: And you were talking about putting
disadvantaged people online and small businesses online.
And the take-up in Europe has lagged behind
the rest of the country.
Here we are in fashionable central London with a whole
lot of business people, presumably, who are very
tech-savvy and already are online.
What can people in this room learn from your campaign?
What should they be doing that they aren't doing?
MARTHA LANE FOX: Well, there's, I guess, two things.
There's the selfish thing.
And then there's the, hopefully
maybe, helpful thing.
Everybody can help what we're trying to do.
I really, deeply believe-- and that wasn't true when I first
took the job--
that we have to give everybody all the skills possible,
particularly now, in order to be as robust in weathering all
of the various storms that are going around.
Not just economically, but in education, in health, in all
of the different things.
And digital skills are one of the most fundamental.
So I think it is a matter of the absolute highest priority
for all organizations to take very seriously skilling-up
both their communities, their employees, the universes that
they touch.
And it's not just about people who have never been online.
It's also about people who, perhaps, feel scared with
technology or who haven't really thought of themselves
as digitally capable.
Because I really strongly believe that we won't be able
to face the challenges that the UK are going to face over
the next five years, unless we are as skilled-up as possible.
And that absolutely revolves around being digital.
So every organization can help us, certainly all of the
organizations in this room, by making small pledges or big
pledges, by just looking around and thinking, well
actually, you know what, I know that the person on
reception doesn't know how to get online or maybe hasn't got
the confidence to go and buy something on the internet, or
to look for an evening course online.
So just have a chat and see whether or not there are
people around you who have never used the internet.
But also, just more broadly, being positive about the
benefits of being online and being able to be robust about
what an important role digital capability can play, I think,
it all adds to the momentum and adds to the
groundswell of support.
We've had lots of pledges from all kinds of organizations, as
I say, from companies, strange ones like Mecca Bingo, big
ones like Google and then medium-sized ones who are all
just thinking about what they can do to help get people
online, building champions, networks, producing low-cost
products, creating an environment where people in
their community can come and learn skills.
So that's the kind of stuff which is a reason to help me.
But then, just more broadly looking at your own
organization, I think that doing a digital test on it is
quite an interesting idea.
I started this crazy business, Lucky Voice.
Has anyone in the room been to Lucky Voice?
PETER BARRON: Oh, yes.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Oh, my goodness.
Brilliant.
Well, I don't need to explain it.
It's like a ripoff of a Japanese karaoke business.
You hire a private room-- thank God--
and you sing your heart out, very badly in my case.
We've also got a big online service that
people can use at home.
And I mention it because I thought, well, what's Lucky
Voice got to do in all of this stuff?
But actually, when I was talking to the people that
work in our bars, not all of them felt particularly
comfortable in how to buy a PC or a laptop or how to make
sure that things were safe that they were doing online.
So actually, just looking internally, even in our little
organization, there are a whole bunch of issues that got
thrown out that, I think, it was important to address.
And I believe, again, that by addressing them, we'll have a
better skilled workforce.
We'll have a more robust business.
And I think that will feed into a more profitable
business over time.
PETER BARRON: We keep hearing that the UK is the e-commerce
capital of the world.
And we are pretty advanced and all of this.
So how do we compare, in terms of the next stage,
internationally?
Are you concerned that we're in danger of falling behind?
That we're not taking full advantage of
our privileged position?
MARTHA LANE FOX: I think it's a couple of things for me.
You're absolutely right about e-commerce.
I'd love to credit lastminute.com with it all,
but I don't think that's the only reason.
And there are lots of things that we do brilliantly.
We've got Immensely competitive telecoms pricing.
We have extraordinary different offerings for people
to be able to get access to equipment and infrastructure.
But there are some areas we're just not very good.
We're not very good in quality of infrastructure, very often.
Our two-meg speeds are often not two megs.
All of the issues around broadband where we fail
compared to how we should do relative to some of the other
things we do well.
And we don't have very good education.
We were talking earlier about the science and technology and
ICT in schools and young people going into technology.
So that's quite a big issue, I'd have
said, for us as a country.
I look at something different, though.
I look at we've got around about 70%, 75% of people
online or able to use the web.
But Imagine what it would be if it was 99%.
Rather than thinking, yeah, that's not bad.
We benchmark OK.
It's not spectacular, but it's not bad.
But imagine what happens when you think, well, that's not
good enough.
Imagine if it was like TV penetration--
which it hopefully will be, as connected TVs move more into
the market--
but if you could just assume that everybody was part of the
same conversation, that there was no enormous gap in how
people could consume things, the access to the savings that
were available online, the access to education employment
opportunities.
So I throw it around the other way and say, because we're
doing OK, let's really go for the big picture.
PETER BARRON: What is your target?
When is your job done?
When you get to 99%?
MARTHA LANE FOX: I've thrown out the crazy type of
task of 98%, 99%.
But in a way, like I said, I hope, as a boisterous
entrepreneur, it was always my decision that it's much, much
better to aim for something kind of insane, that makes
people take notice, that's absolutely terrifying, that
you have a loose, loose chance of getting to, but not a very
big one, because I think it throws the debate into a
different place.
So I've come up with quite a lot of flack recently.
Oh, it's 2012.
Your campaign's ending this year.
There's still millions of people not online.
But I think we'll get further by having gone for that big
goal, which I believe is true of everything,
not just this challenge.
PETER BARRON: Great.
Now we're going to take some questions from the
audience in a second.
I was just going to ask you one more question.
As a very close watcher of the whole internet scene right
from the very beginning, you know what's out there and
what's hot.
Can you point to some examples of people who are doing really
innovative things in Britain with business online?
MARTHA LANE FOX: My favorite question.
I was reflecting this as I came here.
When we started lastminute.com, there wasn't a
Google in the UK.
There wasn't a Facebook.
There was no social networking.
It's well played out.
But it's sometimes startling to remember that the landscape
has changed so fast, it's quite astonishing.
And I think it's moved from a broadcast model to this
amazing peer-to-peer type model.
So lastminute.com, in a way, was quite like a broadcast. We
said, come to our site.
We will tell you what the best deals are.
Buy them.
But even now the site has to be syndicated out.
It has to be much more based on referrals, on people
talking to people.
And I think the things that I like in small businesses are
part of this trend that some of you may have heard of
around collaborative consumption.
Rachel Botsman, a very smart lady from the US, came up with
this notion that, actually, the next economy is going to
be based much more on what people can do for each other
and how they monetize that.
And there are many, many examples, big and small, of
interesting businesses, car sharing ideas.
I found someone recently--
I live in Maryleborne--
who, if you're cooking a meal, you can cook an extra bit and
they'll deliver it around.
They'll cook an extra bit and deliver it
around to your house.
Which, if you're like me and the fridge is always empty, is
a good thing.
PETER BARRON: I live in Maryleborne too, so I could
fancy that, yeah.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Perfect.
Perfect.
So I like some of those small ideas.
There's a site in the US called TaskRabbit where you
can just put in what you want done.
And then you can get somebody to do it for you.
And it always makes me laugh that the most
requested thing is, what?
Does anybody know what the most requested thing on
TaskRabbit might be?
Any ideas?
AUDIENCE: Changing a light bulb?
MARTHA LANE FOX: Not changing a light bulb.
But it's kind of like that.
Building Ikea furniture.
[LAUGHTER]
MARTHA LANE FOX: Help build me Ikea furniture.
So I really like some of those small things, whether it was
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] or whether it's [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
or some of the collaborative consumption ideas.
PETER BARRON: Great.
OK, who would like to ask Martha a question?
Don't be shy.
The gentleman over here.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Hello.
AUDIENCE: My question's around about trying to get everybody
on the internet.
One of the biggest blockers, I believe, is that the CXO
community in most businesses don't truly understand social
media platforms, how to use it.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: And therefore, what you find in a lot of big
corporates is that they block out internet during the day.
So what will your guidance and counsel be to CXO community in
regards to how you let your employees and colleagues use
the internet during the day?
MARTHA LANE FOX: So a really great question.
And I realize that I come at it from a very funny viewpoint
because I have always worked in technology companies and
always started them.
So it's always been a different scale and size to
working in an organization with 10,000 people.
But you know what?
I kind of think people are trustworthy.
And I kind of think you judge people on the work they do,
not whether they're staring at Facebook all day.
And as long as you set up the right parameters around what
they're delivering and how they're working and then
monitor that, that's the right thing to monitor, rather than
what they're doing at their desktop.
So I don't think there should be restrictions.
And I think there should just be a different way
of looking at it.
And actually, of course, it can help people in their work.
And it can be enormously beneficial.
So I think you should trust people.
PETER BARRON: Next question?
The gentleman here.
MARTHA LANE FOX: The government loves
it when I say that.
I open up all government systems to the internet.
They really love that.
GUY PHILLIPSON: Hi Martha.
Guy Phillipson, from the Internet Advertising Bureau.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Hello.
GUY PHILLIPSON: You talked briefly
about learning in schools.
And my daughter did the technology
course, which was rubbish--
did spreadsheets and so on.
A goal seems to be making it push to get that right.
I'm also wondering whether that can be linked to getting
those not online to do so via their kids, actually?
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yes, absolutely.
GUY PHILLIPSON: If you get what I mean.
MARTHA LANE FOX: No, you're spot on.
And on the first projects I went to see in my crazy title,
good job role, was a project under the Westway in West
London where there were a group of people, probably only
about 10 people.
But the average age was about 87.
And they had recently come online.
And most of them had been shown by someone in their
family, actually.
Now they were going to learn more formally in
this training center.
So we've worked a lot with different projects, both with
schools opening up their equipment, but also there are
lots of things happening all over the place encouraging
inter-generational learning.
And one of my jobs is to just keep chatting about it.
So there's a brilliant project, called Finerday,
where a fabulous man called Howard is maniacal about using
kids to get into care homes and into difficult places
where people could get massive benefit from being connected,
either reducing isolation or building their confidence.
And so he got lots of local scout groups to come and
volunteer and help the people in the care
homes to get online.
And it's had phenomenal impact on both sides.
So I completely agree with you.
I think it is happening, but it could happen more.
And it's a really great way to learn.
GUY PHILLIPSON: As in the ICT courses, being transformed, if
you're working with government in the Education Department.
ICT was the course that needs to be transformed.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yeah, it needs to be transformed.
So many kids I met-- well, not so many.
But I have met kids who said to me, yeah, we learned about
computers at school and never went online.
I've never been online.
And I didn't know how to use the internet, having done an
ICT course.
But I think it is changing.
I think it feels like--
Peter knows a little about this too.
PETER BARRON: The gentleman here.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Hi.
AUDIENCE: Interested in any observations from around the
world, in terms of smart stuff that you've observed that we
could bring in.
MARTHA LANE FOX: That we could bring in.
Well, that's a really tricky question.
I think, if I was looking at it from a government point of
view, for a start, I think that I would be really
focusing on infrastructure.
This is probably not a popular thing with some people.
But building faster roads is good, but building much, much
better infrastructure would be much, much more helpful, to my
mind, making sure a two-meg connection is really a two-meg
connection, and then making sure that everybody has a
20-meg connection as soon as possible.
And I think there are huge leaps that can be made in
remote health care.
There are huge leaps that can be made in remote education
and learning and working at home and all those things.
So that's what I would focus on, if I was government.
And if you look at some of the countries that have managed to
do that, then--
it's early days, but still they're in different places.
So that would be one of the first things, I'd say.
In terms of individual businesses, there are hundreds
of thousands.
As I say, I love all the
collaborative consumption stuff.
The other stuff--
I'm absolutely brainwashed by--
my boyfriend turns away when I start talking about it--
is 3D printing.
I don't know how many of you have seen 3D printers.
Or maybe some of you work in that industry.
But bloomin' heck, you know?
I am partly metal now.
And that's why I need antifreeze in my ears at this
time of year.
And they would have printed out my bones again in another
two or three years time.
And so it's quite humbling for me.
It gives me goosebumps.
But also, just now seeing what I believe might happen on the
High Street and that revolution in manufacturing,
not big things, but small things.
So I'm obsessed with 3D printing.
PETER BARRON: Another question?
Any more?
MARTHA LANE FOX: The lady.
PETER BARRON: The lady here.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
I'm working with some of the bankers at the moment, the
likes of Lloyds and Barclays.
And one of the big problems we have with the bankers, the
people who make decisions about giving the money to
businesses, who want to get online, is they don't
understand the technology.
They have a BlackBerry.
It's locked down.
They have no access to the internet.
They think social media is something that happens to
somebody else.
They don't know what apps are.
What are you doing to educate those bankers?
MARTHA LANE FOX: [LAUGHS I am personally going to meet every
individual banker.
[LAUGHTER]
MARTHA LANE FOX: No.
It's really funny.
Again, this is a bit indiscreet, but hell.
I'm on the board of Marks & Spencer.
And the average age of the board is
slightly older than me.
And when everybody started getting iPads, that was when
people became really interested in technology.
And I think it's kind of interesting because, to your
point in a way.
An iPad isn't the same as being and
understanding being online.
We have finally now got a digital board at M&S.
So I recognize the problem.
I'm happy to say that Lloyds is a really big partner of
Race Online 2012.
So they are taking the agenda seriously.
It's taken a while to get there, but it's now one of our
key partners for how we're going to morph into 2012.
So we're trying, through them, to keep that education piece.
But in all seriousness, again, not trying to blow my own
trumpet, but I've talked at 300 events in
the last two years.
So I'm really trying to get out there and say
exactly that message.
And I hope that, if I can amplify things and other
people hear my message and then amplify it themselves,
then that has a ripple effect.
But we just need to keep making sure it's top of our
priority list. And it's not easy.
PETER BARRON: How are we doing for time?
Can you let me know?
We're OK for a couple more questions.
Any more?
The gentleman over here, please.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
Jason from Points of View.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Hello.
AUDIENCE: I note that, obviously, you're trying to
promote connectedness and get as many people using and
gaining access and skills with regards to digital media.
But what's your opinion about actually, in some ways,
restricting connectivity, particularly when it comes to
children who have access to smartphones and the kind of
content that they might be able to see?
And also the implications of things such as cyber bullying
through social networks via the web and
also phones as well?
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yes.
And yesterday was Safer Internet Day.
So I had the pleasure of going to Parliament with 20
7-year-olds who were completely fantastic and were
talking to an audience and some ministers about their
experiences of being online.
So we were discussing a lot of the
issues you've just described.
I think it's, obviously, fundamental.
And it comes back to me about education and the role that
we, as grownups, have in showing children how to be
safe online and how to make sure that they understand
about the questions around identity, and who might be
looking at things, and how to get to places that are safe
and not safe.
But you what?
They were amazingly savvy, these little guys.
And not savvy in a scary way, just smart.
And I think we underestimate the younger generation.
I think sometimes we project our own fears in some of the
things that we're up against.
They looked at me as though I had dropped from another
planet when I said, online, offline.
What are you talking about?
Online, offline, that doesn't make any sense.
And it wasn't even that they thought they were
online all the time.
It was just the notion that you somehow made a conscious
decision like that.
So I think we have to recognize the world is
different for them.
We have to work with them and through them and use them and
make sure that there are some very simple pointers and
educational tools to use.
One of the pieces of work that I really respect is a woman
called Tanya Byron, who I'm I'm sure many of you know.
She did some work for the previous government just on
this whole issue of how to help children online.
And she just said, it's like learning how to cross the road
or to jump into a pool and swim.
You don't just push your child, you teach them and some
very simple things that you can do to teach them safely.
So I agree with you.
It's really important.
I think it's not impossible.
And I don't think we should be frightened of it.
AUDIENCE: Do you think we should
regulate social networks?
MARTHA LANE FOX: I don't think we should regulate them, no.
I think that it's--
AUDIENCE: Control that more?
MARTHA LANE FOX: I think there are tools out there that can
give you parental control over those things.
And I don't think they should be regulated, no.
PETER BARRON: There's a gentleman here.
AUDIENCE: Hi, Martha.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Hello.
KEITH WELLER: Keith Weller, from Electrical Components.
We hear a lot of coverage in the media about the negative
effect that the internet's having on the High Street.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yes.
KEITH WELLER: What do you view on how we can turn that on its
head and get digital helping the High Street?
MARTHA LANE FOX: I like that question.
And funnily enough, I was at Board Away Day for the last
two days of last week.
And that was one of the big questions, as you would
imagine, for Marks & Spencer.
And particularly, I was arguing for us, because we're
one of the bellwethers of the High Street.
And I think we have more of a responsibility than many
organizations to make sure the High Street is strong.
And I'm not joking when I say that I think some of the
changes in technology really have the potential to rebuild
the High Street.
Taking 3-D printing, it's not insane to imagine a time when
you'd go to a place to print out some small parts for your
game, or for your doll, or for even your washing machine, if
you can fix the washer yourself.
And so there are ways, I think, that the hybrids of
technology could reinvigorate your reasons to go into the
High Street.
I also think that there are lots of smart models that I've
been reading about.
In the US recently, I read that there
was a start-up store.
And a whole bunch of small dot coms and other start-ups had
taken over retail space and were just showcasing stuff.
So it wasn't quite a pop-up shop.
It wasn't quite a flash sale.
But they had taken over some space.
And they were just showing some ideas and getting a feel
for whether or not customers liked them.
So some bolder ideas about how we embed technology, rather
than being frightened of it.
All of the numbers show-- that I have seen, of course--
the impact is still too early to tell, but--
Marks & Spencer benefits from people buying things online.
People are more likely to go into a store and spend more,
if they've bought stuff online.
And similarly, if they've been in-store and then they go
online, they'll spend more money online.
There is that symbiotic relationship.
And I just think we're not being, necessarily, very bold
or brave in thinking about some of those hybrid models
and some of the ways that we could create opportunities for
people to go to the High Street.
And I don't know about you, but I bloody hate huge
shopping centers.
Why do you want to go there?
Much nicer to think about reasons to go to your local
High Street, pick up things you've ordered online.
Or go and have a different kind of experience.
Go and play a crazy virtual reality game.
Go and look at a 3--
whatever the thing is.
Do you agree?
KEITH WELLER: Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
[LAUGHTER]
MARTHA LANE FOX: Good!
KEITH WELLER: I couldn't have put it better myself.
[LAUGHTER]
MARTHA LANE FOX: Great.
PETER BARRON: OK, time for a couple more, just quickly.
The lady in the front there.
ERICA SCHMIDT: Hi, Martha.
Erica Schmidt, from Aegis Media.
Just curious to get your perspective on the EU Privacy
Directive, which obviously is coming into play
not long from now.
And there is also potential legislation
coming in next year.
And there's two points of view.
Obviously, there's a consumer point of view and making sure
that choices and what they're aware of, in terms of how
their behavior is being tracked or identified as well
as the business impact for us in the media industry,
obviously publishers, et cetera.
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yeah.
It's really complex.
And I am certainly not an expert on EU regulation.
But I know that, if we had had some of this legislation when
we had been starting lastminute.com, we'd have been
in big trouble, big trouble.
And so there's a really fine line between making sure
people have protection and making sure
businesses can survive.
So I think I sit in quite a negative place about it.
But I think, as I understand it, and we know it's still
being pretty worked on and I have respect for some of the
people that are working on it-- so hopefully, some of
these issues will be played out.
But it's complex.
PETER BARRON: OK, last question, please?
Any takers?
In the absence of any particular, I'm going to ask
you a question.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
PETER BARRON: Maybe 100 years ago we might have talked about
the electricity economy and the difference that
electricity could make.
And there might have even been an electricity champion at
that point.
But here we are talking about the internet economy.
But presumably, in the future, we will no more talk about the
internet economy than we talk today about
the electricity economy.
When do you think that might be?
MARTHA LANE FOX: Yeah, I think it's happening.
It just seems kind of bifurcated to me.
So there are some businesses that look and feel completely
web-enabled.
And there are some that really don't.
So it's as though there's the massively speeding up sectors.
And then there are some that are stuck.
And it's when those two come closer together that,
obviously, it will be really, truly different.
I would say that, within five years, things will feel very,
very different, again, because I just think the pace of
technology change around devices alone.
I think, when people can be online via their TVs without
even really realizing it, that's a big bloomin' deal.
And that's a big deal for businesses as much as it is
for consumers.
So the infrastructure changes combined with the enormous
benefits that all businesses realize they get by being
online and reaching new consumers is just going to
speed up that change.
PETER BARRON: Martha Lane Fox, thank you, very much indeed.
MARTHA LANE FOX: A pleasure.
Thank you.
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