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Coming up next on "Arizona
Horizon," we'll hear from
Arizona's top legislative
leaders on the battle over
Medicaid expansion and other
issues at the capitol.
Plus the sky train at Sky Harbor
is up and running, and so are
several art projects that
debuted with the new passenger
train.
Those stories next on "Arizona
Horizon."
>>> Good evening and welcome to
"Arizona Horizon."
I'm Ted Simons.
The push to expand Medicaid is
still a major issue at the state
capitol.
How long before lawmakers make a
decision?
And what are the state's options
if the decision is no?
Joining us now for their monthly
appearance on "Arizona Horizon."
Senate president Andy Biggs and
house speaker Andy Tobin.
Thanks for joining us.
What's the latest as far as the
Medicaid talks?
>> I think when we start talking
about Medicaid, I think you
start talking about whether
there's enough votes to get it
out of either house, how it's
going to get there, what's it
going to look like.
I'm not sure we have a real bill
that's out there yet.
We have seen some language
proposed.
I think just going back and
forth on that right now.
I'm not sure that there's the
momentum to cross the finish
line on that.
>> Would you like to see more
effort on one side or the other?
>> Well, Ted, I have always said
2
I'm opposed to it.
>> I know that.
>> If I want to see more effort
I suppose it would be on that
side.
>> you're saying not a lot of
movement and not a lot of
movement to get more movement.
>> Well, I guess I don't want to
give a false impression that
nothing is happening.
We're seeing at least on the
Republican side of things the
grass roots have said they don't
want it to do this.
Resolutions, you see people
trying to make that, communicate
that.
On the pro side, you're seeing
some TV ads in different
jurisdictions, some mailers.
I think that there's polling
data that now I think there may
be two or three polls that are
out.
So I think that you're seeing
the pot simmering, getting ready
to boil.
>> how long before the pot
boils?
>> We both have been down there
when things have boiled for a
long time.
This is something we have to get
right.
There have been pieces of this I
think puzzle that folks in the
public are not aware of.
The president and I have clearly
agreed and the governor ace wear
we're not going to let folks
that are on fall off.
It's not like we have a
population today that's going to
crash that's already getting
served.
So the question is we have a $10
billion bag of federal money.
In order to get it we have to
tax $1 billion of public money
3
here.
The question is are you
remembering there's a $17
trillion big bag of debt that
somebody eventually has to pay
for, and then the other
questions come in as things are
changing in Washington I think
we were seeing this week they
actually talked about not having
some of the taxes for Obamacare
they said would be part of the
equation.
Not only recently, in January
they spoke of, oh, by the way
we're going to cut Medicaid
reimbursements.
There's a lot of diss concern
with what's going on in the
federal government.
I think that's what is reflected
at the capitol.
>> the president mentioned a
couple polls.
There's been three at least.
What kind of impact?
One shows a lot of support, one
shows some support, another
mild.
Most seem to show varying levels
of support.
>> what most people agree is we
have a health care crisis, an
insurance crisis.
The problem is we only really
have this one solution over here
called Obamacare.
By solving it we're boring money
from China to do so.
It's hard to find another
solution when you have so much
of the national health care
Obamacare bill that passed for
us to implement ourselves.
So I think it's really hard to
gauge.
A lot of folks like what's
happened with access.
They think we have run a good
program.
4
But over here you're like do you
want the federal government to
be playing more of a role in
that process?
So on this side I think they say
no.
On this side they think we have
done a good job with the
resources we have.
Then it's all about expansion
and taxes and it's more
convoluted than any poll could
play out to be.
>> if the no side succeeds, I
believe you've mentioned you are
on not side, what does the state
do?
What are the options?
>> There's a whole series of
options but I think one option
you could look at is we have a
status quo right now.
We have a prop 204 freeze in
place.
We are Catering and serving
about 80,000 people on there.
These are people -- we agreed to
cover.
We have frozen it.
We got permission from the Feds
to do that, which is part of the
problem we see on everything is
that we have to say, can we have
permission to do this?
A lot of people have a problem
with that.
But it seems to me that's your
most basic option is to continue
the status quo and then you
implore the Feds to allow us to
continue to provide that
coverage, maybe we can get that
match rate they have been
giving, maybe we can't.
But that's probably your number
one option.
>> The hospital, the hidden tax
we keep hearing about that
hospitals are being inundated
with costs for the uninsured, is
5
that good for Arizona?
>> You have to appreciate some
of this as well.
When you hear the hidden health
care tax, uncompensated care
isn't uncompensated care.
That money is in the system.
The other thing you have is in
the proposal out there for
Medicaid expansion, as the
speaker pointed out, you have to
recover $1 billion.
The way you do that in the
proposal is you impose a tax.
When you impose that tax that
will then be passed on to the
commercial side, the consumer
will have to pay that and you'll
have a hidden health care tax.
I'm not sure that the argument
that this eliminates a hid ten
health care taxis the right way
to go.
Either way you will continue to
have that.
>> We have had this conversation
before.
I have been very up front saying
wait a second, if I solve
president Biggs's hospital
problem because this hidden
health care tax how do I know
president Biggs' hospital isn't
going to charge Ted Simons
company through his insurance
rates more money?
I don't think that's a big ask
for the hospital association and
medical providers.
If we're solving this problem
you should be able to say, well,
that helps us.
We don't have to pass that tax
on.
We Don have to pass those costs
on.
But I don't see any of that in
the language.
I have been asking for that
language now for quite some
6
time.
>> Is that something that will
occur anyway if nothing is done?
>> To your point if the answer
is that that should occur just
because of this huge influx of
federal dollars, then they
should be able to supply us with
a guarantee that it won't occur.
I would think if you're getting
all this cash you should show up
and solve some of our problems
which are auditing, which are --
clearly oversight.
Besides 108 issue you clearly
have the separation of powers
problem when you start talking
about under the current plan
giving one guy one director, one
paid state employee the ability
to go ahead and change rates and
also whether or not they are
going to lower reimbursements.
It's a tough -- it's not so
simple as you might want to make
it.
>> With that in mind, does this
go to the floor as a stand-alone
vote?
Is this rolled into the budget?
We hear both we had a report
where you said you're ready and
willing to send it to the floor.
>> Let me clarify what I have
always said.
I have always said the bill gets
to the floor.
I believe the bill gets to the
floor.
>> I always said it doesn't.
[laughter]
But that I believe it gets to
the floor just because there are
ways that bill gets to the
floor, but so the question is
what form is it going to look
like?
You have to have a bill.
Right now there is no bill.
That's a big hurdle to cross.
7
>> The way the language is right
now I would never put that on
the floor.
It has none of these
protections.
These are just some of the
simplest --
>> The idea would be to work
toward the auditing and get it
there.
If it would get there stand
alone?
>> You mean aside from the
budget?
>> Yes.
>> there can be 17 different
budget bills.
It depends what we're talking
the budget.
Certainly we can't do a Medicaid
expansion and pay for it with
state dollars.
The president just described
it's $1 billion over three
years.
We don't have that.
To be able to sustain the
additional spending that's in
the governor's or the
executive's budget plan, we
can't do that without an
assessment.
What folks need to understand is
if you're talking expansion
you're talking we have to raise
taxes.
Whether or not that gets a match
or not you have to understand
that that comes along for the
ride.
That's where there's difficult
choices down there to make.
I think the providers have an
obligation to be helpful with
those pieces and should be at
the table, not just talking to
members in their districts but
coming to the table saying maybe
this solves your problem.
>>> Let's move on to another
8
issue.
Attorney General's Tom Horne
wants money again to patrol
Colorado city, Mojave County
deputies patrolling that
municipality.
What do you think of that?
>> I haven't seen T. it's hard
for me to gauge it because I
haven't seen T. that's really
not his jurisdiction.
I don't know what it is he's
hoping to accomplish or achieve.
I can't comment on that because
I haven't seen that proposal.
>> he says right now that
followers of Warren Jeffs are in
control of the police department
and law enforcement and not law
enforcement protecting, serving
the law.
He says that's a problem.
Did it last year, looks for
money this year.
Again, is it something viable or
something that never gets a
start?
>> Again, I would have to see
it.
I would have to see what he has
in mind.
I'm not sure what he's hoping to
do.
You have to realize that there's
been similar proposals in the
past.
They have been held because they
were problematic.
Everyone from law enforcement on
opposed some of those previous
ideas.
So we have to see -- I would
have to see and understand more
clearly what he's trying to do.
I haven't heard that.
>> is doing nothing the right
thing to do in regards to
Colorado city?
>> Well, I know we have had
legislation moving down at the
9
capitol but I would share with
you you talk about how much it
is, I haven't heard from Tom
Horne.
I haven't heard from the sheriff
of Mojave County.
I haven't heard from my members
in Mojave County telling me they
need this.
I haven't seen anything on it at
all, Ted.
If they need $450,000 maybe if
there's a crime that's been
committed maybe the Attorney
General should go file charges
or something.
Have an investigation.
Instead of coming to the capitol
looking for half a million
dollars.
>> again the question doing
nothing would occur if nothing
gets done.
Okay by you?
>> Well -- what you're
suggesting is that the
legislature is hindering -- if
the A.G. thinks he has
jurisdiction, if he thinks he
has probable cause, he can go
investigate that.
The Attorney General can
investigate that now.
He's got money.
We knows he's got money.
He just got 50 million bucks off
a big settlement from last year
that gives him broad latitude to
use.
He has some money.
If he thinks there's something
to be investigated he can do it.
>> I would encourage him to do
it.
If he has a case, I'm not so
sure we're doing nothing.
We have budgets to do at the
capitol.
We're not the law enforcement
agency of the state.
10
Should be going after whatever
crime is committed.
>> was there not a bill
regarding a special master over
the area Northrup?
Did it die in the Senate?
First is it completely dead,
secondly, what happened to that?
Didn't that pass the house like
88%?
>> Yes.
We got that out of the house
weeks ago.
>> What happened isn't Senate?
>> It got assigned to
committees.
>> You're the president.
Was it --
>> It came over on march 4th.
I signed it -- no, march 8th.
I aside it to committees on
march 12th.
The last week we were going to
have committees.
The chairman apparently chose
not to hear it.
>> Is it unusual to have 88%
approval in one chamber and not
heard in the other?
>> I'm jump in there.
There are some bills that come
over, no disrespect to the
Senate, I have some bills that
come over 28 votes, my gosh, how
did this happen?
Each chamber has their own
rules.
I don't tell the president how
to run his building and he
doesn't tell me how to run mine.
I think if there's -- members
know how to communicate with
each other.
They should continue to try.
>> last point -- please.
>> just want to piggyback on.
That it's not unusual for a bill
that's wildly popular in the
house or in the Senate whether
it gets to the opposite chamber
11
it gets assigned to a committee
and the chair says, I don't like
this bill.
I'm not going to hear this bill
for whatever reason.
I would say that's not unusual
because that's why you have 1400
bills come through and you get
maybe 300 passed.
>> last question before we let
you go.
The guns in small remote
schools.
Success so far at the
legislature.
Yet Democrats try the tactic of
adding on amendments of bills
not heard.
This esay because they thought
these ideas should be heard when
it comes to gun control.
Was the tactic wrong?
You just didn't want to hear
these?
What happened there?
>> We didn't want to hear --
we're not trying to kill bills
necessarily, but the realty is
we let maybe two gun bills out,
two, three gun bills out and
those were the most benign gun
bills we could think of.
We're looking at this particular
bill saying we are concerned
because a rural district can't
even get an SRO, can't afford
them or there's none close by.
Let's see what other
jurisdiction versus done.
This particular idea alive and
well in Texas, let's see if it
works in Arizona.
That's why I let that go
through.
>> We have seen national opinion
polls, 90 odd percent approval
for background checks.
Shouldn't that be something at
least debated at least heard in
the Arizona legislature?
12
>> Well, we have background
checks.
Are you talking about probably
going to the gun shows and stuff
like that.
I don't have a problem having
these debates.
My issue is that we had a
shooting in Colorado, we had a
shooting in Connecticut, for
heaven's sake these are horrible
events.
I haven't seen a gun that came
from a gun show.
I get it.
Folks want to make a story about
okay if we dot background checks
that solves the problem.
I don't see where that worked in
any of those instances.
That doesn't mean that that
shouldn't be there.
I'm worried about those folks
who have mental health issues
that shouldn't be carrying
weapons.
I worry about the bad guys with
weapons.
Of course we do.
Bad guys don't register weapons
anyway.
Those folks who have mental
health issues need help.
So from my perspective we have
background checks now.
I'm not opposed to having that
debate and looking at background
checks in gun shows if we think
that's helpful but knowing is
showing me how that's helpful
anywhere.
>> In the U.S. Senate we had
Senators Mccain and flake
leading the charge say forget
the filibuster.
Mccain's quote was this issue
is as important as we think it
is, why not debate?
Why not at least hear this?
>> My own pin is we had so much
13
going on on our plate, I agree
with the speaker there was no
indicia that this is going to
solve any of the problems.
None of the issues that we got
to that we heard about showed
anywhere where any of those
additional checks or background
speed bumps would have stopped
this.
In fact all those guns were
purchased legally.
Background checks were done.
Bad guys got hold of them and
did bad things.
I'm afraid to say that that's
what continues to happen.
So we need to take I would think
what we're trying to do is put a
moratorium on gun bills.
To categorize what this is is a
gross mischaracterization.
That is a school safety issue.
That's why we did that.
The rest of the gun bills still
remain unheard, whether they are
Republican or Democrat.
We want to get a moratorium so
there's not a visceral reaction
or emotional debate, but this
was a school safety issue.
That's why we let that go
through.
>> That involved guns.
>> Sometimes you need guns to
protect schools.
>> all right, we'll stop it
there.
Good to have you.
>>> Takes us to Sky Harbor where
half a dozen art installations
debuted this week with the new
sky rain.
Director Ed Lobow is here to
tell us about the installations.
Good to have you here.
>> Glad to be here.
>> we have five artists?
>> Five artists and teams and
six installations at each new
14
site and stop along the sky
train.
>> how long in development was
this?
>> Ann Coe one of the artists
likes to say her manager was
pregnant when it started and now
she has a five-year-old.
>> Is the art on the train, in
the train, around the train?
>> It's the spaces leading up to
the train, floors, huge terrazzo
floors.
If you get off on light-rail to
cross 44th street, cross a
bridge that entire bridge is
design by an artist working with
the design team of architects
and engineers and all the rest.
East economy lost, terminal 4
two major projects there.
>> Let's look at some of the
them.
Starting with this one, is it
Daniel Mayer?
>> Yes.
>> Like a caligraphy.
>> Daniel is a print maker who
teaches at ASU.
He use as lot of fonts and in
this case he wanted to scatter
the floor with a path that led
you from one part of the the
train, the exit, over to the
elevators and escalators.
Scrawl you have there is
limitless as the open and
timeless as the open, sort of to
draw upon the book of travel.
>> Daniel Mayer also did I
believe a couple of glass
murals.
Where are these?
>> he sure did.
When you come off the sky train
platform at terminal 4, go down
the escalators, there are two
bridges that connect the train
station to the terminal.
15
He did these remarkable murals
that were really began with
prints of Arizona leaves on
aluminum foil then he scaled
these up and produced them in
traditional stained glass
technique for both bridges.
They are beautiful and large.
In fact you can see these from
the drop-off area down below at
terminal 4 on the southside.
>> basically those are leaf
prints.
>> those are leaf prints, very
traditional but in a
contemporary setting unlike any
other.
>> I would imagine the scope and
size takes your breath away.
>> 115 feet long by nine feet
high.
You feel like you're a bug
crawling on the leaf.
>> what was this about?
>> A Daniel Martin Diaz did a
remarkable floor at the
pedestrian bridge from the
44th street station to the
light-rail stop.
This is a remarkable project.
It's almost 500 feet long, 40
feet wide, and you can see from
some of the pictures the kinds
of hand craftsmanship that went
into this.
These were produced right here
in Phoenix by Advance Terrazzo
and some of their skilled
craftsmen.
This is an ancient technique.
It dates back a couple thousand
years that began with bits of
marble from construction and
built into cement.
Now we have modern materials
that are really beautiful.
>> Absolutely gorgeous.
Mandala like.
Let's start with Fernandez.
Well known as an artist.
16
>> we had a competition to
select these artists five years
ago.
Fausto, Daniel mayor, Daniel
Martin Diaz and Ann Coe became
the artists to do the projects.
Fausto because of his imagery
got this project.
He worked really beautifully
with the design team to create a
pattern that is based on tail
plane wings.
>> absolutely gorgeous.
Ann Coe, another very familiar
artist to folks in the valley,
and she did a floor as well?
>> She did a floor and it
captures all of the whimsy that
everybody knows Ann has.
So it's essentially an aerial
flyover of the Arizona
landscape, which she loves.
So you have these wiggling lines
of tree or canals and rivers and
takes off the top graphic map
graphics that you on which see.
>> a floor as landscape.
>> The one thing I would point
out, the east economy lot, an
outdoor station, so they had to
come up with an money
investigative new product to
make it durable in the outdoors.
>> there was an international
team that did this.
This was -- was this a ceiling
of clouds?
>> Yes.
At the 44th street station on
the ground floor, sort of the
main entrance to that site.
You have the international team
of Mario MAREG, Michael PERKAI,
working with Paul DEEK.
They had den a great deal of
reading about the ancient ocean
that used to cover Arizona and
were infatuated with the
blueness of our sky and the
landscape.
17
They combined these two things
into this grid that has the
ripple like water in the middle.
>> How much control, how much
say did they have over what they
wanted to do?
>> Very significant.
They began withdrawings and
worked with the architectural
team to incorporate them into
the explanation as the entire
sky9 tray developed.
>> The over all cost?
>> 5.6 million and change out of
a $1.5 billion project.
>> Again, the money came from --
>> Percent for art program.
That means a penny out of every
buck involves artists and coming
up with these kinds of
enhancements.
>> the response from the
artists?
Happy?
>> They are delighted, thrilled.
The response from the public has
been, this is wonderful work.
>> congratulations on a success
there.
Can't wait to take a look.
Thanks for joining us.
That is it for now.
I'm Ted Simons.
Thank you so much for joining
us.
You have a great evening.
>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
possible by contributions from
the friends of 8, members of
your Arizona PBS station.
Thank you.
>>> When you want to be more
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>> it's a fun place to go with
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>> I could have eaten my weight
in calamari.
>> Secret to anyone who doesn't
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They were delicious.
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Good food.
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irresistible.
>> Arizona tonight tonight at
on 8H.D.
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>> On masterpiece classics.
>> I have never seen you so
enchanted.
>> Every woman should have a
moment like this.
>> On masterpiece classics.
on 8H.D.
>>> Next time on Australia's
first 4 billion years --
>> This seems to be how the
animal invasion began.
>> life storms the beaches and
dominates planet earth.
Ancient Australian fossils offer
clues to how we got our start.
>> this is something truly
special.
A living link to our fossil
past.
>> life explodes on Australia's
first 4 billion years.