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INTERVIEWED BY: MIKE VAN BUREN
DATE OF INTERVIEW: JANUARY 25, 2010
ALSO PRESENT: PATTY CLARK
VAN BUREN: Okay. Good afternoon. This is
Saturday, January--excuse me.
This is Monday, January 25th, and we're in
Wallingford, Connecticut, and we're at the home of Frank
Villano, who was a tail gunner on a B-24 in Europe, with the
15th Air Force flying out of Italy, in 1944 and in 1945.
Frank, what is your birth date?
VILLANO: November 28th, 1925.
VAN BUREN: Okay. And attending the interview
also is Frank's daughter, Patty Clark. The interviewer is
Mike Van Buren.
Van Buren: And Frank was in the Army Air Force during World War II.
And what was your rank, Frank?
Villano: Staff sergeant.
Van Buren: Staff sergeant. Okay.
And you served exclusively in Italy; is that correct?
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: Okay. And you flew exclusively out of Foggia Air Base?
Villano: Yes. Pantanella was the name of the air base. It was just
south of FoggiVillano:
Van Buren: Okay. All right. And you were exclusively a tail gunner?
Villano: Um-hum.
Van Buren: And you flew 35 missions?
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: After which you returned to the United States or--
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: Okay. All right. Okay. Were you drafted or did you
enlist?
Villano: I enlisted when I was 17. I took the exam for an air crew
member.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And I was just--I passed the exam, and I waited until I
was--they waited until I was 18 before they could take me
in.
Van Buren: Okay. And where were you living at the time?
Villano: West Haven, Connecticut.
Van Buren: Okay. Why did you join? Why did you volunteer?
Villano: Well, that was during the time when a lot of my classmates,
who were a year or so older than I was, were joining. And
it was the time when everyone was patriotic because of the
happenings at Pearl Harbor.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: Some of the other ones could join the navy and the marines
when they were 17, so we lost a lot of our--didn't lose
them, but we lost a lot of our people to the armed services
at that age.
Van Buren: Okay. Why did you pick the branch that you joined? Why did
you pick the Army Air Force?
Villano: Well, I always had an interest in--in flying. It fascinated
me when I was a youngster, and I made a lot of models that I
was interested in. And I used to go to these little barn
storming air shows. They had one in West Haven, which was
actually in a farmer's field, and they used to give rides in
the airplanes.
Van Buren: Wow. Okay.
Okay. Can you recall your first days in the
service? Can you describe that a little bit for us; in
other words, your basic training that you received
initially.
Villano: Yes. I was inducted. I went to Ft. Devens, Massachusetts,
and from there I went down to Greensboro, North Carolina,
where I took my basic training. I was there for two months.
And I took--we took tests for air crew exam, to test our
dexterity and things of that nature. And then they--they
said that they had enough pilots and--and navigators and
bombardiers and what they really needed was gunners.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: So the 500 of us who were in the class at Greensboro were
sent down to Harlingen, Texas, for gunnery training.
Van Buren: All 500 of you?
Villano: All of us.
Van Buren: Okay. What did it feel like? Can you just describe how you
were feeling at the time? Was it really exciting? Were you
a little bit scared? Tell me all about that.
Villano: Well, you're always a little apprehensive about what
you're--you don't know about. But we went down to gunnery
training in Harlingen, and it was very comprehensive. And
there were things--I never shot a gun before in my life, and
when I got down there, I shot everything from a BB gun up to
a .50 caliber machine gun. And that was a different
experience in my lifetime.
Van Buren: Okay. Okay. Can you tell me a little bit specifically when
you got to gunnery school what that was like, perhaps what a
typical day was like, how they trained you and so on.
Villano: Well--
Van Buren: In other words, did you have like a turret that you were
doing your target shooting from, or did they just initially
expose you to the guns first? And then you talked a bit
before, for instance, about the--the testing for losing
oxygen, things like that. So maybe you can describe that.
Villano: Okay. The first guns we ever shot were a BB machine gun,
and it was like in a shooting gallery in an amusement park.
And they had ducks and targets moving across the--in front
of us and we'd shoot at them with BB guns.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: After that a lot of our training was with shotguns. And in
using the shotguns, we used to have--go out everyday and
shoot 25 rounds of shotguns in skeet or trap shooting. And
the reason for doing that is so you'd get the feeling of
leading your target. And in order to shoot trap and the
target is flashing in front of you, you have to give it some
leading.
So we--we were trained in shooting these shotguns,
not only on the ground, but then they had an oval track
where you were in the back of the truck with a 12-gauge
shotgun, and when you went around the track there were 25
houses that shot clay pigeons out of that at you in all
directions. And from the back of a truck we had to shoot at
those pigeons. And there were times when you just didn't
have time to bring it up to your shoulder, you had to shoot
them from your hip in order to get them flying out of these
different angles. Some of them were flying directly at you,
some were flying away from you, some are flying across
horizontally. And it was just a wonderful experience in the
training to test your reaction--reactions against something
that you haven't experienced before.
Van Buren: Um-hum. Okay.
Can you tell me a bit about the--the training for
oxygen deprivation. Can you tell me that story again,
please.
Villano: They--in the classes they explained to us about passing out
when you--from lack of oxygen, which they call ana- --let's
see, what the hell was it now.
Van Buren: It's not anorexiVillano:
Villano: No, no, no, no, no, no. Geez, I had it. You better cut
this part out.
Van Buren: Well, okay. We'll stop it.
[Interview paused.]
Villano: Geez.
Van Buren: All right. Go.
Villano: They taught us about anoxiVillano: And what they did, they took
around 20 of us and put us into a decompression chamber, and
there was--there were seats along the sides of the chamber.
And they took a first group of fellows, about three or four
of them, and they sat them down in the aisle and asked them
to row like they were rowing a boat.
And so they were all rowing together, and then
they disconnected their oxygen, and they all slumped over.
Now, after they connected the oxygen again, the guys picked
their heads up and start rowing like nothing ever happened.
And they were telling--that was just to show us the dangers
of it. Because you have no experience of passing out, you
have no knowledge of--of how--how you could die if it was
deprived any--for any period of time. But--and it also
showed that when you can do--you don't remember a thing, but
you go back to doing the same thing you were doing before
you passed out.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: In my case they told me to tie--untie my shoe laces and then
tie them up again. So I started with my shoe laces. And I
had the feeling that every--I was under control, there were
nothing that was bothering me. And then they disconnected
my oxygen. And then they connected my oxygen again, and I
started tying my shoes again. And I said, Well, what did
you do that for? I was--I knew what I was doing. And that
brought the fact to me that I didn't know what was going on,
and you have no memory of passing out at all.
Van Buren: That means it's a pretty serious thing potentially?
Villano: Absolutely. And I think that brought it home to all--all
the students there, that--the dangers of--of having lack of
oxygen.
Van Buren: Okay. Do you remember your instructors at all, any
particular instructors?
Villano: No. I had some that were--what they had, they had also was
what they call a waller trainer. Now, later this was used
in the movies, the screen, it was used in the movies.
You go into this building, and the screen was
elliptical.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And it was like a wide screen that they later come out with
in the movies.
And you--you sat at a--a position that was like
being in a--in a turret and you had electronic machine gun
in front of you.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And they would have about four or five different cameras
focusing different--different images on the screen. And
you'd have planes coming out of the right, planes coming out
of the left, and you had to swing this electronic machine
gun around and try to shoot them down.
And it was--it tested your reaction, it tested
how--how well you could lead them in the speeds they were
going, and it was real great training.
Van Buren: Wow.
Villano: And that was something that was invented just for that
purpose, and later they used it in--in the motion picture
industry.
Van Buren: Huh.
Now and what did you do after that training in
Texas? Take us from there.
Villano: Well, after that we went to--we went to Westover Field, and
we were there for--to meet our crew.
Van Buren: And where is Westover Field?
Villano: Westover Field is in Massachusetts.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And you're just sitting around with all--all the gunners,
and there were officers there. And they call out their
names and each--they call out ten names and then you'd meet,
and that was your crew. You'd introduce yourself to each
other. And from then on we were known as Kolicia's crew,
who was our pilot.
Van Buren: Okay. Can you spell that last name for me, KoliciVillano:
Villano: K-O-L-I-C-I-Villano:
Van Buren: Kolicia's crew. Okay. That's a good alliteration there.
So how long did you guys spend in Westover?
Villano: Oh, we just--that was just for combining the different--the
gunners and the radio men and the engineers with the pilots
and the navigators.
From there we went down to Chatham Field, Georgia,
where we stayed there for two months, and--and all we did
was fly every day. There were days where we had what they
call a touchdown and takeoff, where you just touched the
wheels down and take off again and circle the field and
touch down and take off, and you did that for hours.
Van Buren: That tested the dexterity of the pilot, I assume?
Villano: Yeah, got them used to landing the plane in all kinds of
weather.
Van Buren: Okay. That was a B-24 at that point?
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: Okay. All right.
What happened after that?
Villano: We went on cross country trips on flights to--we went--flew
to FloridVillano: We never touched down anyplace. We'd fly to
the given target and then back again. We'd fly to the
Bahamas and back again. And we flew not as a squadron but
as an individual crew. And this was just different parts of
the country and getting acquainted with each other. We'd
stay at our positions. We'd corresponded through our
intercom, and we just worked together as a crew.
Van Buren: Okay. So basically you were simulating bombing runs?
Villano: Um-hum.
Van Buren: Over friendly territory, of course?
Villano: It--yes. Well, it was actually getting acquainted with each
other and--and--and reacting to each other.
Van Buren: Learning how to really work as a team?
Villano: Sure.
Van Buren: Which is really critical?
Villano: Um-hum.
Van Buren: Okay. And then at that point did you go overseas or--
Villano: Well, we were supposed to go overseas but then they--they
sited our crew to go to Langley Field, VirginiVillano: And there
we would--we dropped off our navigator and we picked up a
new navigator who was radar trained. And they called them
Mickey men. Radar was comparatively new to the United
States Air Force. It had been used in--in England
for--England in--English invented it--
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: For bombers, because they did a lot of night bombing and
they needed the--the radar.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So we picked up Lieutenant Peter Wilson, who was our--our
navigator, and we flew with him for two months.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And the training we do--we did at--from Langley Field was
strictly radar training. It was--all the navigation was
done by radar. Whether it was bad weather or good weather,
he directed the ship with the radar. And it was a training
for him and a training for us and getting to know each
other.
Van Buren: So at that point it was probably 1944--
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: I'm assuming?
Because if you were 18 when you finally were
called in, that would have been 1943, so I'm assuming after
all this training had gone on, you're now into 1944?
Villano: Well, I actually went in in January of '44.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: Because I wasn't 18 till November of '43.
Van Buren: Right. Okay. All right.
And at this point you're still stationed in
Georgia; is that correct?
Villano: Langley.
Van Buren: Langley.
Villano: Langley Field, VirginiVillano:
Van Buren: Okay. Take us from there. What happened after that?
Villano: Well, after that we were assigned overseas, and we picked up
a brand new B-24, and we flew it up to Maine. And from
Maine we went up to Labrador, Gander Field. And from Gander
Field we flew to the Azores. And from the Azores we flew to
Marrakech in AfricVillano: And then from--we stayed there for a
couple of weeks, because we had a--we found we had a leak in
one of the gas tanks, so they had to repair that.
And then from there we flew to Tunis. And then
from Tunis we flew to our home base in Italy,
Panatella--PantanellVillano:
Van Buren: Okay. Did you get a chance when you were in Africa to
explore a little bit of Africa, or did they have any time
for you to do that?
Villano: Well, the only--the only--we did go to town in Marrakech.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And of course that was quite an experience. We went to the
bazaar, which is the marketplace in the center of Marrakech,
and we saw these snake charmers and types of things that
we--we just read about previously.
Van Buren: Um-hum. So it was sort of an exotic experience--
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: --you could say, to be sure. Okay.
So you arrived in PantanellVillano: And do you remember
what month in 1944 that was?
Villano: It was in the end of October of '44.
Van Buren: Okay. All right.
So at that point the same crew was still together
that had been put together in Westover, Massachusetts.
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: No more substitutions. Okay.
Villano: When we--when we got to our--our base there, they took Pete
Wilson away from us.
Van Buren: Who was that trained navigator.
Villano: He was the trained radar navigator. Because all the planes
didn't have the radar; just the lead planes and the deputy
lead plane had radar. So he was slated to fly with the
group leaders.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And lead the--lead the squadrons.
Van Buren: Okay. Well, why don't you take us from there to your first
combat mission, which I'm assuming was relatively quickly
after you arrived in Italy or--
Villano: Our first one was November 4th, 1944. And--
Van Buren: At that point you were approaching 19 years old then.
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: Getting close.
Villano: It was a couple of weeks before I was 19.
When we first fly--the previous night you always
go up and look at the bulletin board and see if your name is
on it. And the night of the 3rd, Kolicia's was slated to
fly on the 4th. In the morning we were awakened, 5:30 in
the morning, and we went to chow. After chow we went to get
our electric heated suit. We--we were flying in
temperatures of 40 degrees below zero. And from there we
went to our briefing.
When you go into the briefing, they--they have a
stage set, and they have a curtain drawn over the stage.
And you sit down, and when everyone's seated, the commander
will come in and--and pull the curtains, and that will
indicate your--your target.
The first mission that we flew, it was to Linz,
AustriVillano: And being newcomers we didn't know what to expect,
but we heard the veterans in the--in the--with the--in the
rest of the auditorium groan. So we said, Ah, we didn't
know what that meant.
But after they picked us up on a--on a--with a
truck, and they took several crew members down to their
respective planes, and when they were going down to the
planes, there is not much--much talking going on. They
dropped us off at--at each of our planes. When we--we took
off--let's see.
First, you have to wait for a signal from the
tower. If it's a red flare, the--the flight is canceled for
the day. If it's a green flare, it's a go. And a red flare
could be caused by weather problems on the way up. And--and
anything--if the original target is--is obscured and there's
no way to bomb that target, they might cancel it. Or else
they might send you to an alternate target. But in any
event, when the green flare was shot up, that was a go.
We were at a--a base that had a double runway. So
when we went out to taxi to the runways, they would
alternate. You took off from the left runway, you were down
the runway 30 seconds later. The one they took off from the
second runway. And every--at 30-second intervals the plane
would take off. Of course this was to get the planes in the
air as soon as possible so we could get our formation set
up.
Van Buren: Um-hum. Can you tell me again, describe what a--how many
planes in a squadron and how many planes in a bomber group
and maybe the average number of planes that would go on a
mission.
Villano: A group had--our group had four squadrons in it, and each
squadron on a normal bombing excursion would be seven planes
from each squadron. And you used to fly two triangles and
then a seventh plane at the base of it, of the squadron.
When they had what they called--what the heck was
it? You better shut it off again.
[Interview paused.]
Villano: Squadron sometimes would have from seven to 12--seven was a
normal day, but you'd have up to 12 planes for each
squadron.
Van Buren: On a maximum effort?
Villano: On a maximum number effort.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: These usually resulted in these thousand-plane raids you
talked about. Now, I always envisioned the--the sky being
loaded with planes, a thousand of them at a time, but that
isn't what happened. Each group went over the target. They
all had target destination times. And what really happened
is that the target was bombed for--we'll say from 11:30 to
maybe 2:00, and it was a steady stream of bombers going
over. That was a maximum effort of a thousand planes. If
it was a normal mission, that's the way they still did it,
but it would be in--in--each group had their own destination
time.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: Because if--if you--if--you could--well, first of all, in
this--when they--the way they had the groups set up and the
squadrons set up, every--you--you might think that
every--every plane has its own bombsight, but that wasn't
true.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: The only bombsights that they had in--in a squadron was in
the lead plane or the deputy lead plane and possibly a third
plane, and everybody else just had a toggle switch.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And when you saw the--the lead plane drop its bombs, you hit
the toggle switch and you dropped your bombs. This way you
formed a pattern; you weren't all aiming for the same point.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So the pattern--he'd--he'd aim for one portion of the--of
the target, and then the pattern would develop from the
toggle switches of the bombs.
Van Buren: Okay. So when you say there were usually just one or two,
sometimes three, you said bombardiers or navigators, you
meant?
Villano: No. The bombardiers still flew in the planes, but they
didn't have a bombsight.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: They didn't always have a bombsight.
Van Buren: So only a limited number of planes had the bombsights?
Villano: Right.
Van Buren: And that would be two or three planes per group?
Villano: Right.
Van Buren: Meaning per 28 total planes on a typical run?
Villano: Right.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And it had a twofold purpose, too, because the Nordon
bombsight was supposed to have been a secret. You know, it
was--it was a revolutionary type of bombsight that was used
by the Americans.
Van Buren: What do they say, if you can hit a pickle barrel from two
miles up or something like that.
Villano: Well, if you could see it, you could, I guess.
But--and the fact that they didn't have them in
every plane is, if any of the planes got shot down the enemy
wouldn't get the bombsight.
Van Buren: Right.
Villano: So there was a minimum of those used in the bombing run.
Van Buren: Can you tell me--obviously you hit a variety and types of
targets. Maybe you can describe the most--whether it be an
oil field or a munitions factory or enemy positions, can you
describe some of the different targets that you hit, please.
Villano: Our first--well, first, all our targets were primarily to
cripple the German machine. We--we bombed their oil--oil
refineries, the oil depots, and then we also bombed the
marshaling yards that the trains used to--to carry the
munitions and such to different parts of Germany.
So if we--we crippled their transportation and we
crippled their oil, they wouldn't have the oil and--and
gasoline to run their tanks and airplanes and such.
Van Buren: Right.
Villano: And so that's where our primary targets were.
Well, when you hit an oil refinery, the result
would be black--black smoke that just enveloped the sky,
really, over the target.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: When you hit a marshaling yard, you could see the bomb
strikes more easily, because it just left the puffs of smoke
from--from the bomb itself. As a tail gunner I was
responsible also for watching it, surveying the target after
the bombs were dropped.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And then when we went back to briefing, after the mission
was over, they would ask the tail gunners--because they were
the last one to see the target in the plane--from the
plane--and we would tell them how accurate or how
inaccurate, where we saw the bombs drop, and--and how well
we did.
Because we always had landmarks that they pointed
out to us in the briefing. If--if there was a river there,
you'd--you'd know that the bomb's supposed to be dropped in
certain--to the right of the river or just over the river or
to the left of it. Or there were building landmarks that
you--you memorized, and you knew if you dropped the bombs in
that area, you knew you had a good hit.
Van Buren: Okay. Now, obviously a lot of guys didn't make it back.
There were a lot of casualties. Would you say that--could
you give us a sense of--on your average mission, what
percentage of planes you would lose. Can you speak to that
at all, sort of a statistic.
Villano: Well, it's hard to determine or say that, you know, a
percentage from each one. There were some--some missions we
went on there were no casualties at all.
Van Buren: Really.
Villano: And there were other ones that we went on, there were quite
a few casualties.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: There were some casualties that were not caused by the
enemy. Sometimes we'll go to a target that was what we
thought was a fairly easy target. And sometimes--I know a
couple of times--there was collisions trying to maintain a
tight formation. Sometimes--
Van Buren: Resulted in midair--
Villano: --something happened and there was a midair collision where
both planes were damaged and went down.
On our field there was a couple of planes
that--that on takeoff the nosewheel collapsed for some
reason and the bombs went off before they got--now even
though the bombs were armed, there was the concussion of
the--of the plane hitting that set the bombs off, and they
exploded at the end of the runway. Those are casualties, of
course, still caused by the war, but they weren't caused by
enemy fire.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: The flack was--was probably our most dangerous adversary
because you--you can't imagine.
I flew--when I was flying, I--I wanted to see what
the other turrets were. So I--I flew the--I flew the nose
turret and he took my place in the tail.
Well, when I was--when you're in the tail, you
don't see anything coming at you, you just--you see behind
you, you see where you've been, but you don't see anything
in front of you. When I was flying in the--in the nose
turret, I got a perspective that I never had before.
Because I heard Shortie, who was our nose gunner,
say, "Oh, I see a plane going down here," or "I see a plane
going down there," or "This one's going into a flat spin."
And--and then he says, "Well, it looks like there's a lot of
flack up there." And I never realized the type of--of
terror he might have gone through by just seeing these
things.
Like when we were on the--on the bomb run, the sky
is just loaded with black, with the flack exploding. If--if
they were--if the Germans happened to get the altitude you
were flying at, and you knew you had to fly through that,
you can't deviate from your bomb run.
The lead bombardier, who is sighting the drop,
has--he takes over the plane as you're on the bomb run, and
he's--he's controlling the flight of the plane. And he has
to fly--fly a straight line to the target, and he can't
deviate from that at all. And you know you have to go
through the flack, and you see it up in front of you. And I
experienced something that I--that I--I--I realized that
Shortie has to go through every time we fly.
Van Buren: So you had a knew appreciation of--
Villano: I certainly app--yes, I certainly did.
Van Buren: Now, would you say that when planes were--were shot down or
suffered, say, a midair collision--did a lot of the guys
seem to have an opportunity to parachute out? Or do you
think that most--most men were killed when their planes went
down?
Villano: Well, I only saw one that I thought no one got out, I didn't
see anybody getting out.
On--on some of the other ones, you--I--I
personally didn't see every one of them, but some people on
the crew will say, "Well, there's one--one chute opening,
there's another chute opening," and they'd count the chutes.
Van Buren: Right.
Villano: So when we got back to briefing we'd tell them, "Out of ten,
five got out, or six got out, or none got out." It--it--it
varied.
Sometimes you'd go into a flat spin. And in a
flat spin you're--you're--I don't know if it's centripetal
force or centrifugal force, but it holds you and you can't
move. And in order to get--sometimes you can't get to your
parachute to snap it on. And some of the--what you have to
do really is crawl along and be fortunate enough to get to
your chute.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: In the--in the nose--when you're baling out of the nose
turret, you have to bail out of the--of the--where the
opening of the nosewheel doors are, and you go out there.
There's several different places where you--you could go out
the bomb bay, if the doors are open. The belly turret had
to open his door and fall out. He was the only one that
wore a chute on his back because he was isolated from the
rest of the plane.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So he would open--he would snap the doors open, and he'd
just fall out.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: The--the pilot and co-pilot are the other two that had their
chutes on--on their back.
Van Buren: How would the--since you were a tail gunner, how would you
get out? Would you have to work your way up into the
fuselage and then choose--
Villano: Well, there's an exit hatch just aft of the--of the waist
gunners.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And it was about maybe four--I don't think it was four by
four, maybe three by three. And--and that was our escape
hatch. The waist gunners and the tail gunner, you would go
out that hatch.
Van Buren: Okay. As far as your--your crew, your particular crew of
guys that all flew together, did all of those guys survive
the war? Because you said some of them occasionally would
fly on other flights; maybe you could have lost one when he
was on another flight.
Villano: Well, our--our navigator I mentioned earlier was a radar
navigator, and he flew with the lead--lead planes, and--
Van Buren: His name was Pete Wilson?
Villano: Pete Wilson. He come from New York.
And he was shot down on his 31st mission. It was
just outside of ViennVillano:
Van Buren: And you know he did not make it?
Villano: And--and he did not make it. They--they said later that he
was buried in Austria, along with two other of the crew
members.
Van Buren: Do you know if he's still there? Or was his body brought
back to the United States after?
Villano: I don't think so. I don't--I--I don't--I really don't know.
Van Buren: Okay. What kind of varying--various fates could a guy
suffer when he parachuted? You spoke earlier that some
could become prisoners but some could be at the mercy of
angry civilians. Could you just talk briefly, please, about
that.
Villano: Well, when we tried to determine how--what happened to Pete,
we were given conflicting stories about how he--he got
killed. And first they told us he might have hit an
obstruction on the plane when he--when he bailed out. Then
we were told that his chute probably didn't open. And then
we told--we were told that he could have been shot as he was
parachuting. And the last thing they told us was that
he--he could have been killed by civilians who--who beat him
to death, because we heard this did happen.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: Where a person would parachute safely to the ground only to
be beaten to death.
Van Buren: Obviously some became prisoners of war?
Villano: And some became prisoners of war, yes.
Van Buren: Were there examples where guys may have bailed out behind
enemy lines or into the hands of friendly partisans that
actually made it back to fly again that came--somehow made
it back to base? I know you have a special junker story,
and we'll save that for a little later. But.
Villano: Yes. There were. There were. There's a crew that we
were--when we're in training with, we--we flew a mission
that was up at--I think it was near CzechoslovakiVillano:
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And the--they were shot down. And several of the crew
members were killed in the explosion and within the plane.
But the--the plane was crippled and they--but they made it
to RussiVillano: And the Russians took them in. And they treated
them very well. And they eventually came back to fly again.
Van Buren: So in other words, they flew beyond Germany to Russia--
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: --rather than trying to make it back the other way?
Villano: Yeah. That was an option. It was an option: If you knew
you couldn't make it back to your home base to try to head
for somewhere where there were friendly--either partisans or
allies.
Van Buren: I'm assuming that Russia would have been a shorter distance?
Villano: In this case.
Van Buren: If you were already over Germany, it would--
Villano: Right.
Van Buren: --be quicker to go to Russia?
Villano: Right.
Van Buren: Okay. Let's talk about your typical target destinations.
We talked about the types of targets. But what countries
did you bomb the most, and then others that you didn't go to
as much? You mainly were Germany and Austria; and then
behind that, what other countries?
Villano: We--we bombed, to support the 8th Army and the 5th Army, in
Italy.
Van Buren: Um-hum. So you bombed in Italy?
Villano: We bombed in Italy. This was in an area where the 5th Army
of the United States and the 8th Army of Britain were
advancing up the boot of Italy. And we were to bomb the
German positions to try to get them across a river.
Van Buren: Okay. Do you know what river that was?
Villano: No, I don't. I don't recall.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And we--we went to--let's see--Hungary. We went to Hungary
a few times. I--
Van Buren: You bombed in Hungary?
Villano: Yes. There was an air drum over there, over in
(Novazamki?), and that's when we found out--or we--we got
an idea that the bombing of all--all the oil targets were
really productive. There was a lot of ME-262s. Now, they
had these jet planes, ME-262s. And when we were bombing
this air field over there, there were 262s on the ground and
they couldn't get off the ground because they had no--no
fuel. They had a superior plane, but they--they couldn't
fly it because they had no petrol.
Van Buren: So you were able to bomb those planes on the ground?
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: In Hungary?
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: Okay. But is it true you primarily bombed targets in
Germany and Austria--
Villano: Right.
Van Buren: --correct?
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: Can you briefly name the cities--name cities or centers that
you bombed?
Villano: We bombed Munich. We bombed Blechhammer, which is in
northern Germany up near Poland. Oswiecim, which is up near
Poland. ViennVillano: Linz. Amstetten. Klagenfurt. Those
are--those are the main--main targets that we were hitting,
and we hit a lot of those multiple times.
Van Buren: Okay. Which would you say were some of your--can you
describe maybe your worst mission or one of your most
difficult missions, either because of encountering fighters
or flack or whatever.
Villano: Well, our third mission was the one that gave us probably
the--we had our worst experience. And that was to Munich.
We went up to Munich, to bomb the marshaling yards
up there, and when we turned onto the bomb run, we had
our--you go to an initial point and at that point you turn
onto your bomb run. And at that time our co-pilot asked for
an oxygen check. He checked the--had an oxygen check before
the target and after the target, to ensure that everyone was
all right. Well, everyone answered the oxygen check except
our engineer who was also a gunner in the waist. So Chick
said--Chick, who was our co-pilot, said, "Where's Jerry? He
didn't answer."
So the waist gunner said, "He's up behind
Villano." They called me Fingers then. "He's up behind
Fingers. He's up"--and I turned around, and my--I turned my
turret so I could see him, and he was slumped against the
side of the plane and he had passed out. I noticed his
oxygen hose was disconnected.
And I--I had a flack suit on, and they're pretty
heavy. They were 40--40 pounds or so. And there's a clasp
in the front where you're supposed to pull it and all the
snaps--it's made--it's made in two different pieces, the
front vest and the back vest, and then the sides. And
your--and when you pull this, it's supposed to unsnap
everything and it's supposed to fall off you.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And I'm pulling on it, and I couldn't get the darn thing
off. And--and I couldn't get out of my turret. I--I--you
get in your turret by--by grabbing the handles behind your
head and pulling yourself up and getting out, and I couldn't
get out.
So I--I turned my turret at an angle closest to
Jerry, and I leaned over backwards as far as I could,
and--with my feet holding me into the turret, and I
connected him up. And then as I connected him up, my--my
hose became undone. Because in the turret you only have a
short hose, you don't have any--any extra room because it's
so tight in there.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So I connected mine up, and then between Bob and myself we
tried to get Jerry, so he wouldn't go back to doing what he
was doing. So he started for the electric suit. He wanted
to plug into the electric suit again, and his hose come
undone again. But by this time he connected it up again.
Well, when I--when I connected him up, I turned
the oxygen on to full, so he--I figured he--if he had--was
going to come to, he--with pure oxygen, it would be--he'd
come to faster. So--and I'm tapping him on the head, and
finally that's when he--he made some movement.
And then we--we got him stabilized and he went
back to his position. He wanted--he went over--the reason
why his oxygen come undone, we had a bomb strike camera in
the plane, and he went over to turn the camera on, and it
was that far away that his oxygen became disconnected.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: Well, we were on the bomb run then and the plane was
bouncing all over the place, and you could hear the flack
bouncing off the skin of the plane coming through the--it
was--it was--it was an experience that I--I--being our third
mission, it was something that I didn't--we didn't--just had
no way of knowing what it was gonna be like.
So we finally get off the target. And
they--we--as soon as you've dropped the bombs away, you peel
off the target. And we--we got off the target.
And then we found--one of our engines--we had to
feather one of the engines because the engine was--went--ran
out. It probably was hit. And it happened to be our engine
number three which generates all our electricity.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So we had--we fell behind our group because we couldn't keep
up with them. We were only on three engines, and then one
of the other engines wasn't pulling full--full power. So we
were flying on two and a half engines, and so we fell
behind.
And because we had no electricity, what we were
doing was manually running our turrets to indicate that we
had electricity, because usually the--the Germans pick on
the stragglers. The stragglers are sitting duck for them.
Because you don't have the concentrated fire power as you
would from a--from a squadron.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So we were--we were flying back, and we were flying so low,
and we were losing altitude as we were going along, we flew
through the Alps, not over it; we were flying through the
valley of the Alps. And finally we got to a point where we
was going to stop at this--I think it was the 95th bomb
group. It was a B-17 bomb group that was further north than
we were.
Van Buren: In Italy?
Villano: In Italy, yes.
And Joe, our pilot, called in. He wanted an
emergency landing, because we--he--we didn't have any gas.
Because of the lack of electricity, we couldn't even
transfer the gas. We had gas in the outer tanks but we
couldn't transfer it because the pumps weren't working. And
the--they told them that we couldn't come in because they
had a--they had a B-17 coming in on one engine, and so we
had to do the best we can.
So as we were coming in, there was a--a runway
under construction and it was--there was all vehicles
and--and construction equipment on the runway, so we
couldn't run on that.
So Joe--he hit the end of the runway just at the
end, just to touch down the main wheels. Now, the wheels
had to be cranked down because we had no electricity. The
flaps were cranked down. The wheels were cranked down. The
nosewheel--there was no crank for that. We had to kick that
one out. So we weren't sure if that was gonna hold or not.
So when we--when we hit down, the brunt of the--of
the landing was taken on the runway for the--for the main
wheels. And then right after that, we rolled off into this
field. And it was like a farmer's field with furrows. And
the plane was bouncing up and down. And we weren't sure
whether the nosewheel was gonna hold or not. Because the
first thing that would go under a--the jostling like that
would be the nosewheel would collapse. So we finally come
to a halt.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And we had a navigator who--that was flying with us that
day, because Pete Wilson, our regular navigator, flew with
someone else, and he had--he was experienced. So--his name
was Sullivan. And I see Sullivan bouncing off the wing off
the top, and we're--we're just standing there happy to be
down.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And he's yelling, "Get, get out, get out," you know. He was
afraid the plane was going to blow up. And that was the
lack of experience that we had, and he had the experience to
get us out of the plane. So we all jumped out of the plane
and ran away.
But they had the ambulance there, the fire trucks
there and everything, and--in the event that we had--we were
wounded or we had--were injured in the--in the landing of
the plane.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: But fortunately everything turned out fine.
Van Buren: That sounds like a pretty close call, though.
Villano: Well, it was--it was--
Van Buren: A learning--
Villano: --touch and go for a while.
Van Buren: Touch and go and quite a learning experience.
Can you tell me anything about the fighter planes
that you encountered, the enemy planes. Did you ever really
get a chance to notice that it was a Messerschmitt or a
Focke-Wulf or this or that?
Villano: Well, the ME-109s--the ME-109s were the ones that were
attacking us, and all--the training that they gave us in
the--in the--in the states was--they call it a pursuit
curve, because a single--a fighter plane is nothing but a
flying machine gun. And in order for him to shoot his gun,
he has to have the nose of his plane pointing at your plane.
So if you were flying along in this--in this
manner and he wants to shoot at your plane, he has to keep
turning his plane towards the back of your plane. So you
know he has a--a prescribed route that he's gonna take. And
that's where you lead him. You lead him between his plane
and the tail of your plane, because he's sliding to the back
of your plane all the time. Like I say, that was called a
pursuit curve.
Now, when we were over there, though, they had
changed their tactics. They weren't using the pursuit curve
except if they were going onto stragglers. What they had
was they call a company front attack. And when you're in
a--in a squadron of seven planes you have a concentrated
fire power of--of the upper turret and the rest of the
turrets. If you come in from the top, you have more guns
bearing on you; if you come in from the bottom, you have
more guns bearing on you, because the tail can shoot at you,
the base. But if they come in straight, horizontal, they
call that a company front attract--attack, where the planes
were wing tip to wing tip and come in straight at you. The
only--the only guns they had to worry about were the nose
guns, either nose gun or the tail gun. So they used to have
company front attacks that come from the nose or from the
tail.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: But fortunately we didn't have a lot of those. Because
our--our--the planes we had that were escorting us did a
marvelous job.
Van Buren: Of keeping the fighters away?
Villano: Oh, yeah. In fact, when we went over the targets, you
wouldn't even see the fighters around. They were usually up
ahead of us clearing out anything that was--that was
coming--that we were flying into.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So they did a real wonderful job in keeping us safe.
Van Buren: Okay. Tell me about--you said you had the Tuskegee airmen
escort you at times?
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: And the types of--what types of planes were they typically
flying, these fighter escort groups?
Villano: Well, we had two groups that were flying escort for us. One
was a P-38 group and the other was the Tuskegee airmen in
the P-51s. They had the red tails and the red spinners.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And at times on the--on our intercom we could turn--turn to
interplane conversations, and we could hear them talking to
each other when they spot planes and what they were doing to
confront the enemy. And we didn't stay on that--those
channels very long. But we used to hear them over the
channels.
Van Buren: Okay. Did you ever get to--to hang out with them when you
were on the ground back at the base? Did you spend any time
with them?
Villano: No. No.
Van Buren: They were at different bases, I guess?
Villano: Yeah, they were. The only ones we did meet were the P-38
flyers, and it was because we were coming back from a
mission, and we were transferring--the army engineer, Jerry,
was transferring the gas from the outer tanks, and he caused
a vapor lock where there was a--it's--it's like an air
between the--the fuel, and we lost three engines over the
Adriatic. We dropped like a rock. And fortunately he
switched the--the tanks so the engines, as they were
windmilling, they caught up again. And our pilot, Joe,
didn't want to take any chances, and he did everything--the
closest base to us was a P-38 base. So we--we landed our
plane at a P-38 base. And we were interested in the P-38s,
of course. All of us wanted to be pilots.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And we were crawling all over the P-38s, and oddly enough,
they were that much interested in our plane, you know. They
couldn't get over all of the armament we had, how big the
plane was. And they were crawling all over it. Their
pilots were crawling all over our plane.
Van Buren: It was sort of a mutual admiration.
Villano: I was just going to say, that's exactly what it was.
Van Buren: A mutual society. That's pretty neat. Okay.
Well, we've talked a whole lot about your
experiences of flying, and I'm sure that you have a couple
of unusual stories to tell. And I can think of two that you
mentioned to me previously that maybe you can recount again.
And one is of the prisoners who commandeered the German
plane. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that,
please.
Villano: Well, the plane that--that our--our navigator, Pete Wilson,
was in, when it was shot down over Austria, the pilot, the
co-pilot, and I think it was a bombardier were captured, and
they were in an Austrian jail.
And it was--it was toward the end of the war and
the Russians were coming in from--from the west. They were
closing in on--on ViennVillano: And the Germans really did not
want to be captured by the Russians. They feared the
Russians something awful.
So this Captain Steves, who was the pilot of the
plane that was shot down, he played on their fear and was
telling them that he--he could take them back to the
American base as a prisoner of war.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And he finally talked them into letting him out.
So they let him out, and they--they went over
to--they had these JU-52s, these junkers, JU-52s, which was
a tri-motored plane they used for parachuting in--in
supplies and stuff like that.
And there was two of them on the heart stands.
And Steves says--we've later found out one of them was half
filled with gas and one was filled with gas, and they picked
the one that was half filled with gas.
Van Buren: By mistake, I'm assuming?
Villano: Yes. And the guys that they--they--let them out were--were
pilots. They were pilots of those planes. So when
they--they got in the plane--
Van Buren: Didn't you say, by--by the way, that you--when they got on
the plane they had a brief encounter with one of the runway
guards and their girlfriend; is that correct?
Villano: Yes. They--
Van Buren: Tell us about that just for a second.
Villano: Well, when they got to the plane, they--they got inside, and
the guard who was supposed to be guarding the plane was in
there with his girlfriend.
Van Buren: Okay. So they booted him out?
Villano: They--well, he--he was afraid of being reported, so he
didn't really pay too much attention that there were
Americans that were trying to get on the plane.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: So they--they took the plane off. And the sergeants who
marched them out was the--was the pilot--
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: --of the plane.
So Steves had in mind that he was going to come
back to Pantanella, and he was going to give them the code
numbers and the call letters of the plane that it was shot
down. And he was going to land--he really wanted to land
that JU-52 on an American base.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And unfortunately he took the plane with the
half--half-filled tanks of gas, and he didn't make it any
further than YugoslaviVillano: And they landed in Yugoslavia
where the Germans were immediately taken as prisoners by the
Yugoslavs.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And Captain Steves and the other couple of guys were shipped
back to our base, where they--they had a special meeting,
and they related their tales and what--what happened after
they were shot down.
Now, at this time, we--we tried to gather some
information about Pete Wilson, but they really
didn't--didn't have any--a clear story on what happened to
him. They know that he was deceased, he was killed. But--
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: --later on--I would say within the past three or four
years--I got some information and found out that Pete was
buried over in--in AustriVillano:
Van Buren: Okay. Okay. While you were stationed in Italy, I'm sure
you occasionally met Italian civilians or had encounters
with them, and you told me about a very unusual one, which I
hope you will tell us about again now.
Villano: Well, we were confined to the base most of the time because
we were on call for flight duty. So if we went off the
base, we had to be back before 5:00 at night.
So we were--I--I just went to a couple of towns
that were not too far from us. The immediate towns around
us were off limits because they were so small and they
didn't want them overrun by the Americans.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So I--I opted to go to Bari, which is about 70 miles away
and ride on the back of a truck, six-by-six truck. And most
of the time was consumed in travel. I didn't have a lot of
time there.
And I was walking down the street in Bari and
someone behind me said, "Have you got a cigarette?"
So at that time, I was smoking. And I turned to
see who it was, and I saw this little old Italian man there.
And he was the only one behind me. So I asked him, "Did you
ask me for a cigarette?" And he says yes.
So I says, "Gee, you speak English very well. How
did you learn to speak that well?"
He says, "Well, I lived in--in the United States
for a number of years."
And I said, "Whereabouts?"
And he says, "Well, you wouldn't know where it was
anyhow." He says, "It was a small town in Connecticut."
So I said, "Well, I come from Connecticut, and
I--I live in West Haven." And that was the town he lived
in. He lived in West Haven.
And West Haven had an amusement park they called
Savin Rock.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And he was describing Savin Rock to me exactly the way it
was in the years prior to my being born, because he was an
elderly man.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: But yet he had the places down, he had the names down. He
was telling me about this, and I was flabbergasted. How
could I meet a person this far away from home who came from
the same town that I did.
Van Buren: Unbelievable. Truth is stranger than fiction. That's
incredible.
Villano: Unbelievable.
Van Buren: Unfortunately, you didn't exchange information and keep in
touch with him.
Villano: No. No.
Van Buren: God only knows what would have happened if you had.
Villano: You know, I was so dumbfounded that I saw I--I--I didn't
even have the sense to ask him for his name and--and where I
could contact him again.
Van Buren: Interesting. Okay.
Well, why don't we get to sort of--perhaps on a
little bit lighter note--and what I'd like to ask you now
are some questions about various things, like staying in
touch with your family and so on.
Did you correspond with family members throughout
the war, send them letters, and they would send you care
packages and letters and so on or--
Villano: Well, I--I can tell you I--I used to correspond with--my--my
family, my mother and father. I used to write them an
e-mail at--a v-mail. That's what they used to call it at
that time. Where they used to--you write a letter, and they
used to photograph it and reduce it, and they used to send
loads of them home.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And I used to write a v-mail every--almost every night.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And I didn't--just saying that I was well, and talk about
the weather and stuff like that. And my--my mother used to
send me packages from home.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So I--she sent me a package. And when I received the
package it was soiled in the corner of it, you know. And I
know she was sending me some peanut butter, so I thought the
peanut butter had--had--no--oh, no. Wait a minute. I
thought it was--I thought it was--she--she had a--a bottle
of cherries in there. But she put--she put some brandy--she
took the liquid out of the cherries and she put brandy in
it. And so she's sending a--sending me a jar of--of
cherries in brandy.
So when I saw the soil--the box was soiled, I
said, I thought that the brandy was broken. So I opened it
up, and it was peanut butter that was broken.
But I had the--the jar of cherries with brandy in
it. And I wasn't much of a drinker at that time. So we--I
shared it with my crew members and some of the fellas around
me. But it was--they were amused at the fact that she sent
me something like that in the mail.
Van Buren: That sounds neat.
What was the food like that they served you when
you were back on base?
Villano: The food was typical army--army food, you know, they had
braised beef and they had Vienna sausages and stuff of that
nature. They had powdered eggs.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: As a matter of fact, this--one of my crew members, Red Core,
and myself, we went to a--a city close by called CarinolVillano:
And we went on a Sunday. And we both had egg and chips.
That's what they call them. And I think it cost us 10
dollars each to have egg and chips. That was a lot of money
then.
Van Buren: That is.
Villano: But they were--
Van Buren: A hundred dollar--
Villano: They were real eggs and--and french fries. And we went to a
family's house, and they served us. It was wonderful.
Van Buren: It was a very special luxury, I'm sure.
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: Did you feel a lot of pressure and stress; and how did you
deal with that? Or did you just tend to get used to it and
just kept on going or--day by day or--
Villano: I'll be honest with you. I never felt any stress at all.
Van Buren: You didn't really feel a lot of adrenaline when you were up
in the air?
Villano: Well, at the time it was happening, of course, you're
stressful.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: But after it was completed, that day was completed, just
never gave it any more thought. And I think that's the way
that the rest of our crew was too. They--they--we were a
very close-knit group. There was ten of us from--spread out
throughout the country, from California to New England and--
Van Buren: That must have really broadened your--I'm sure before the
war you hadn't been all over the United States, except for
during your training. So these guys gave you kind of a
sense of what it was like to live in different parts of the
United States?
Villano: Yeah, especially CaliforniVillano: John Margaroli, who was
our--our ball gunner--he was actually--he was 32 years old.
That was--that was real old.
Van Buren: That was ancient.
Villano: And he was like our grandfather, you know. But he was a
wonderful guy. And he used to tell us stories about
CaliforniVillano: And I can't imagine 10 people with different
personalities getting along as well as we did. We loved
each other. We were like brothers.
Van Buren: So that was very, very fortunate then. That probably helped
relieve any stress because you didn't feel alone. You were
sharing.
Villano: That's right. We did everything together. The fact that
we--the six of us--were in one tent kind of isolated us. We
knew the--the guys in the tents that surrounded us. But--
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: --mainly we--we stayed together.
Van Buren: Okay. Did you do anything for good luck? Did you carry
anything with you throughout the war or--
Villano: No.
Van Buren: Okay. How about entertainers or entertainment? Did you
have, you know, Bob Hope or other celebrities come to your
base?
Villano: No.
Van Buren: Or USO events you went to?
Villano: No. There was none of that. The only entertainment we had
is when we were forming up the missions. I--I used to turn
on the radio and--and get the Andrews singing "Rum and
Coca-Cola" and all the big bands playing music. That was
our entertainment. But I'll tell you something.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: When we went--when we had a mission, we wouldn't know what
the mission was. We wouldn't even know we were flying the
next day.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: Until we saw our name on the board. And then we went to
briefing and they showed us the mission. It was totally
secret.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: When we were flying in our forming up, sometimes we used to
put on Axis Sally, and she was propagandas from Germany,
telling us that our--our wives and girlfriends are running
around at home while we're over--we're fighting a war and
all that stuff.
But she used to come out sometimes and say, "The
464th, we know you're going to bomb Vienna today and you're
not going to come back," and tell us all these crazy things.
And how did they know? I don't know how they knew. But
they knew the targets when we didn't even know until a few
hours before.
Van Buren: I would think that might make you a little nervous, quite
frankly.
Villano: But--but that was--that was commonplace, I guess. I--I
heard other people say the same thing about, you know.
But I--I just listened to her for the music. She
used to play all popular American music, too, to get all the
people to listen to her.
Van Buren: Right.
Villano: But then I used to turn--tune in mostly to the American
station they had there.
Van Buren: Okay. Can you recall any particularly humorous or unusual
event, like maybe a prank that you guys might have played on
each other or something like that or--since you were so
close, you must have done that from time to time.
Villano: Well, we were always kibitzing around, Red and myself, being
the youngest. Chick, our co-pilot, he was only a year older
than we were.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: Yet he used to say we used to keep the place lively.
I--I can't point to any particular thing but we--I
guess we were always kibitzing around and providing a few
laughs here and there. But nothing in particular.
Van Buren: Okay. Obviously you have a lot of photographs, which you've
shown me and those hopefully will be copied to go along with
your interview. And you did keep a personal diary, I
believe, which you would write down a little summary of each
of your missions and what your impressions were. And I
believe you did that covering all 35 of your missions; isn't
that true?
Villano: Yes. Yes.
Van Buren: And you still have that book--
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: --so that can be copied today.
And then you, of course, have a tag from one bomb
from each mission.
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: Okay. That's--that's fabulous. Okay. So hopefully all
that information will be copied to go along with this
interview.
Do you recall the day that your service ended; in
other words, when the 35th mission was over? I believe you
said something about having a couple of shots of brandy or--
Villano: Yeah. Well--
Van Buren: --guys corralled you for that.
Villano: We were entitled to have a shot of--usually it was a double
shot of brandy after we come back from a mission. But I--I
wasn't a drinker and I--I just--I says, "Well, save them for
me until I finish up."
And the day I finished up, they--they had
prohibited buzzing the tower because some of the guys were
getting a little too close to the tower. Because when they
finished their missions, they used to run down the runway
and buzz the tower.
Joe, our pilot, was--he was a little more
conservative, but he wanted to do something. So he did the
same thing, only he wasn't--he didn't go as low as they did.
Some of these other ones was just about above the runway.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: But he was a little bit higher. He went down the runway and
then he banked sharply and then come in and landed the
plane. And then I was advised, "Well, go up to the office.
They got your brandy waiting for you. All the--all the
brandy you haven't had over the rest of your missions is--is
waiting for you."
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: So I went up there and I had my brandy.
Van Buren: You consumed your fair share of brandy at that time?
Villano: Well, it didn't take much. But I had too much, to be honest
with you.
Van Buren: Okay. Now, when you came back, did you come back to the
states before the war actually ended? You came back--
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: Okay. You came--and you came back to Connecticut, I'm
assuming?
Villano: Yeah. Well, when I come back to the states, they send me
down to Laredo to--I was training to be a gunnery
inspector--instructor on a B-29.
Now, a B-29, their firing apparatus was completely
different from--from the B-24, because it was remote
controlled, and you were in a climate-controlled cabin and
all that. So I was down in Laredo to learn the B-29 system
so I could teach it to new--new gunners.
Van Buren: But of course the war ended?
Villano: The war ended at that time.
Van Buren: Okay. Now, you went back home and you went straight to
work; is that true?
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: More or less?
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: And then you went to work as what? What was your profession
then?
Villano: Well, at the time, I was just a machine operator.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And--
Van Buren: Like a metal, like lathing or something like that?
Villano: Well, it was automatic screw machines that made parts out of
bar stock.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And I held about three or four jobs, and I was always--if
there was a layoff, I was the first one to go because I
wasn't skilled.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And I didn't have any particular skill that--
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: So at that point I went to college. I went to evening
school.
Van Buren: And where--where was that?
Villano: At the University of New Haven.
Van Buren: Okay. Was that on the GI bill?
Villano: No, this is--this is a few years after the GI bill. I
didn't take advantage of it, which was foolish of me.
Van Buren: Okay. So you--and that took you--going to school at night,
you took 12 years to earn a degree in engineering?
Villano: I--I had two degrees in engineering and a degree in business
administration.
Van Buren: Oh, okay.
Villano: So when I went--the place I was working was paying half my
tuition. And I--I stayed there until the day I retired,
although it was--the company was bought out by several
different companies. And when I left the company I was
operations manager.
Van Buren: And what--what year did you retire? In the 1980s perhaps or
early '90s?
MS. PATTY CLARK: The '90s or '80s.
Villano: Let's see. Where's Marguerite? She knows.
MS. PATTY CLARK: Was it 23 years ago?
Villano: It's 23 years ago I retired.
Van Buren: Right around age 60 then, perhaps?
Villano: Sixty-one, I was.
Van Buren: Okay. Now, obviously you were very close with all the guys
on your crew, and you've maintained contact with them
throughout the years. You've seen them periodically; is
that true--
Villano: Yes.
Van Buren: --through--for, I assume, bomb group reunions at different
places around the country or--
Villano: Well, we have our own--own reunion. There was five of us
that we could get a hold of, the rest--we--we knew that two
had passed away. Two we--we--we couldn't locate. So there
was--there was five of us--five of us when we--we finally
got together, and we had a reunion among ourselves for every
couple of years.
Van Buren: Okay.
Villano: And I still contact them. I talk to them over the phone.
Or I--I see this fella in Massachusetts. We--my--my wife
and I--go to meet him up at--right on the border in--
MS. PATTY CLARK: Stourbridge.
Villano: Stourbridge Village. Yeah.
Van Buren: And his name is Red--
Villano: Red Core.
Van Buren: Okay. What--what position was he on the plane?
Villano: He was the upper turret gunners.
Van Buren: Okay. So gunners stick together evidently.
Villano: Yeah.
Van Buren: Okay. And do you belong to any veterans organizations?
Villano: No.
Van Buren: No. Okay. All right.
Well, is there--could you sort of describe how
your military experience may have influenced your thinking
about war in general, about the military, just about life in
general. What--you know, how did it change your perspective
on things by having been in the service?
Villano: Well, first of all, it changed my life a lot as far
as--usually when you--in a town, in a small town like in
Connecticut, you don't really go out to see the rest of the
world the way we--the way I did. To see the--see how other
people in other parts of the country lived and the different
customs in other countries was a revelation to me. Because
I was only 18. I didn't have any knowledge of--other
than--than what I read in books.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: But it--it gave you a better understanding of people in
different places.
Van Buren: Okay. Is there anything else that you would like to add or
any closing comments that you might like to impart to the
viewers?
Villano: Well, you know, one thing that was interesting is that this
Red Core--his name is James Core.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: His name is James Francis. My name is Francis James. And
we're a day apart as far as age. He has gone to some 464th
group reunions.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And at some of these reunions they invited some of the very
gunners, antiaircraft gunners, who were shooting at us, and
they invited them back to this country. And they are very
amiable people. And you find out that people are the same,
no matter what. They had a job to do. We had a job to do.
But they--they became the best of friends.
Van Buren: Um-hum.
Villano: And some of these people are still contacting the--the
Austrian antiaircraft--antiaircraft gunners. And sometimes
they contribute letters to this newsletter that the 464th
group puts out every once in a while. And it--it shows you
that they're--at the time there was animosity, but now
they're just as friendly as your next-door neighbor.
Van Buren: So brotherhood is much stronger than--than war and--and
divisions between people.
Villano: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Van Buren: Well, Frank, it's been a great interview. We thank you very
much for your contributions to the Veterans History Project.
And I think it's going to be a valuable experience--your
experiences are valuable, and a lot of people will benefit
by viewing them and seeing them. So thank you very much.
Villano: It was an honor for me to do it, really.
Van Buren: Oh, I'm glad of that. Great.