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>> IT'S ON NOW?
YES, IT IS.
SO, WE'VE GOT TWO OF THESE THINGS--
HOPE I'M NOT TALKING TOO LOUD.
UM, MY NAME IS DAVID COPE.
I'M SENIOR SHAKESPEARE PROFESSOR HERE AT THE COLLEGE.
CARMEN WAS ONE OF MY FIRST STUDENTS.
I WAS A-- I'D WORKED FOR 18 YEARS AS A CUSTODIAN,
AND I WAS THE DOCK MANAGER OF MAIN AND NORTH BUILDING AT GRCC.
MY POETRY CAREER HAD TAKEN OFF
AND THEY HIRED ME ON THE CONDITION
THAT I GET MY MASTER'S DEGREE.
SO, MY FIRST CLASS,
I HAD INVENTED A MULTICULTURAL LITERATURE CLASS
WHICH IS NOW TAUGHT BY MY COLLEAGUE, ROLAND GANI--
AND CARMEN CAME INTO MY CLASS.
UM, SHE WAS YOUNG.
SHE WAS STILL LEARNING ENGLISH, BUT SHE HAD A FIRE IN HER
LIKE NO STUDENT I'VE EVER HAD SINCE.
I WAS WORRIED-- IN FACT, THE ONE THING
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OVER THE YEARS IS I WAS AFRAID
SHE'D HAVE A HEART ATTACK BY THE TIME SHE WAS 30
BECAUSE SHE WAS MOVING SO FAST AND SO HARD.
UH, I COULD GIVE YOU AN ACADEMIC INTRODUCTION
WITH ALL OF HER DEGREES,
ALL OF HER PUBLICATIONS AND THAT,
BUT I REALLY DON'T WANT TO.
UM, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR-- SHE WENT THROUGH THE ENTIRE SYSTEM.
I THINK SHE'S PROBABLY THE ONLY GRCC GRADUATE WHO EVER GOT A PhD
FROM OXFORD UNIVERSITY IN ENGLAND--
THEY CALL IT "D.PHIL" BUT IT'S THE SAME THING.
UH...
SO, WE'VE GOT LIVING PROOF THAT IF YOU'RE A GRCC STUDENT,
YOU CAN GO PLACES IF YOU'VE GOT A FIRE IN YOUR BELLY.
DO YOU ALL FOLLOW ME HERE?
OKAY.
SO, TO SPEAK OF CARMEN-- I MEAN, IF I WERE TO TALK ABOUT IT,
WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON.
THIS MEMOIR WON THE BAKELESS PRIZE,
WHICH IS AN INTERNATIONALLY IMPORTANT PRIZE FOR, UM...
MEMOIR-- ALSO, POETRY AND FICTION, TOO, I THINK.
THERE'S THREE OF 'EM.
THEY GIVE IT OUT EACH YEAR, AND, UM...
IT WAS THE SORT OF THING THAT I THOUGHT WAS OVERDUE,
BECAUSE I KNEW HOW POWERFUL A WRITER SHE WAS.
AND I GUESS I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO HER AT THIS POINT IN TIME,
'CAUSE I COULD GO ON BLABBING ENDLESSLY,
AND IT'S PROBABLY BEST THAT I DON'T.
WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, CARMEN BUGAN,
MY FORMER STUDENT, NOW MY MASTER.
(laughing)
(applause)
(indistinct speaking)
>> YEAH.
>> WHEN WE GET TO QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS....
(indistinct speaking).
>> (with Romanian accent) OKAY, CAN YOU HEAR ME
IN THE BACK THERE OKAY?
YES?
ALL RIGHT.
WELL... (chuckling)
IT'S AN ABSOLUTE PLEASURE FOR ME TO RETURN
TO GRAND RAPIDS COMMUNITY COLLEGE,
A PLACE WHICH HAS REMAINED A SPIRITUAL HOME,
UM, DURING THE PAST 23 YEARS SINCE MY FAMILY
AND I LANDED IN THIS TOWN VIA REFUGEE TRIAGE CENTER IN ROME,
THAT FIRST SNOWY EVENING IN NOVEMBER 1989.
AND IN HONOR OF THAT ARRIVAL,
I WILL READ TO YOU THE POEM "GRAND RAPIDS, MICHIGAN"
FROM MY BOOK "CROSSING THE CARPATHIANS."
AND I DEDICATE THIS POEM TO DAVID COPE,
MY TEACHER AND FRIEND,
A GREAT POET AND AN INSPIRING FIGURE
IN THE LITERARY COMMUNITY OF GRAND RAPIDS--
INDEED, THE POET LAUREATE OF GRAND RAPIDS--
WITH HEARTFELT THANKS FOR INVITING ME BACK
TO GRAND RAPIDS COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
AND I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO DEDICATE THIS POEM
TO THE MEMBERS OF FAITH UNITED CHURCH OF GOD,
WHO WILL RECOGNIZE THEMSELVES IN THE POEM, I HOPE.
AND THEY WERE THE FIRST PEOPLE WE TRUSTED--
THE FIRST PEOPLE MY FATHER TRUSTED IN 25 YEARS OF DISSIDENCE.
WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT IS WE CAME AFTER A LONG, LONG FLIGHT,
AND...
WE SAW A MAN WITH A PLACARD WITH OUR NAME WRITTEN ON IT.
IT SAID "BUGAN" ON IT.
AND THAT WAS THE PASTOR, PAUL STOVER.
AND HE'S IN THE PHOTO IN THE BOOK THERE.
IN THE PHOTO INSERT, YOU WILL SEE-- ONE OF THE LAST PHOTOS--
YOU WILL SEE US OFF THE PLANE WITH A PHOTO OF PAUL STOVER.
WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE WERE.
WE NEVER MET THEM.
AND MY PARENTS ALLOWED FOR THE FAMILY TO BE SPLIT IN TWO--
WE WENT INTO TWO CARS THAT NIGHT.
AND I CANNOT TELL YOU WHAT IT MEANS FOR US
TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT LEAP OF TRUST...
BUT I HOPE TODAY'S READING FROM THE BOOK WILL ILLUSTRATE
THAT MOMENT.
BUT BY THE END OF THIS, I HOPE YOU WILL GET TO KNOW IT.
SO, MY BOOK OF POEMS, "CROSSING THE CARPATHIANS,"
IS ABOUT CROSSING THE CARPATHIANS IN MANY WAYS--
THE MOUNTAINS OF ROMANIA.
AND THIS IS A POEM CALLED "GRAND RAPIDS, MICHIGAN,"
FOR DAVID AND FOR THE PEOPLE OF CHURCH OF GOD.
FATHER REPEATS HIS OWN NAME ALOUD AS IF TO REMEMBER IT--
SHEEPSKIN COAT, BLOOD-SHOT EYES, ONE SUITCASE,
HE CARRIES HIS AGE AND HIS LANGUAGE ON HIS TONGUE.
MOTHER GATHERS US AROUND HER--
I STILL SEE ON HER FACE THE GREEN LIGHTS
ON THE PLATFORM IN BUCHAREST,
THE ARM OF THE CONDUCTOR LIFTING TO "GO!"
WHEN WE CROSSED THE FRONTIER WE DRANK QUIETLY FROM A FLASK
OF PLUM BRANDY--
I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT EACH OF US WAS THINKING.
SOMEONE CARRIES A SIGN WITH OUR NAME WRITTEN ON IT,
WE DON'T KNOW HIM BUT EMBRACE HIM
AND LET HIM DRIVE US THROUGH DRIVING SNOW
NOW, THE TITLE OF TODAY'S TALK
IS "HOW TO WRITE ABOUT PERSONAL HISTORY
"WHEN IT IS PART OF NATIONAL HISTORY."
AND THIS IS A LOT-- I'M THINKING HERE ABOUT THE STUDENTS
WHO ARE WRITERS, AS WELL.
THIS IS MORE OF A QUESTION AND LESS A LIST OF PRESCRIPTION,
BECAUSE THE SUBJECT IS-- I BELIEVE--
A LIFETIME EFFORT FOR SELF-DEFINITION
AND UNDERSTANDING.
THE IDEA FOR THIS TALK CAME FROM A RADIO INTERVIEW I GAVE
A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO
TO A WRITERS PROGRAM IN MINNESOTA.
TALKING ABOUT MY BOOK, "BURYING THE TYPEWRITER,"
THE INTERVIEWER ASKED ME IF I FELT ANY RESPONSIBILITY
OR OBLIGATION TO PRESENT ROMANIA
AND THE ROMANIAN COMMUNITY IN MY BOOK.
HAVING MADE IT CLEAR TO HER THAT THE STORY OF MY FAMILY
IS THE STORY OF ONE FAMILY UNDER CEAUSESCU,
I ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED THAT MY FAMILY'S FIGHT AGAINST OPPRESSION,
THOUGH UNIQUE IN MANY WAYS,
WAS ALSO REPRESENTATIVE.
I SUPPOSE MY EGO HASN'T DEVELOPED TO THE EXTENT
TO WHICH I BELIEVE THAT I CAN SPEAK
FOR THE EXPERIENCE OF A WHOLE NATION.
BUT THEN AGAIN, I AM PART OF A NATION
THAT STRUGGLED WITH TOTALITARIANISM,
AND THIS HAS BEEN THE PRIMARY SUBJECT OF MY WORK.
MANY OTHER PEOPLE FOUGHT AGAINST TYRANNY, SUFFERED IN PRISONS,
AND ENDED UP THROWING-- THROWN OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
MANY-- NOT ONLY MY PARENTS--
HAVE FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM AND DIGNITY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES
AND WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO REACH OLD AGE IN THEIR NATIVE VILLAGES.
SO, "YES," I SAID, "THE STORY OF MY FAMILY
"MIGHT BE THE STORY OF MANY OTHER FAMILIES,
"EVEN THOUGH I PREFER TO LOOK AT IT
"FROM A PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE."
ONCE YOU WRITE A MEMOIR THAT PRESENTS A MOMENT IN HISTORY,
NO MATTER HOW PRIVATE AND PERSONAL YOUR STORY IS,
YOU CAN'T AVOID PEOPLE WANTING TO CATEGORIZE IT
AND UNDERSTAND IT IN ITS HISTORICAL CONTEXT.
FOR THIS REASON, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE THINKING
ABOUT THE JOB OF THE WRITER,
FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF A MORE PUBLIC RESPONSIBILITIES,
EVEN THOUGH-- AS I ALSO INSISTED IN THE INTERVIEW--
I DON'T WANT TO INFLATE MYSELF TO THINK
THAT I AM CAPABLE TO SPEAK FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
THE GREAT POET, CZESLAW MILOSZ, ONCE SAID THAT
"THERE ARE TIMES IN HUMAN HISTORY
"WHEN PEOPLE EXPERIENCED THAT HISTORY SO STRONGLY
"THAT THE 'I' OF THE POET"--
YOU KNOW, THE LYRIC "I," THE ONE WHO SPEAKS IN THE POEM--
"WONDERS BOTH WITHIN THE PERSONAL BIOGRAPHY
"BUT ALSO WITHIN THE LARGER HISTORY."
AND THIS IS THE POINT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE UP--
TO MAKE IN THIS TALK TODAY.
FOR ME, THE ISSUE IS LINGUISTIC.
AS A RESULT OF MY FAMILY'S PERSECUTION UNDER CEAUSESCU,
AND IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO EXPULSION FROM OUR COUNTRY,
I HAVE CHOSEN TO WRITE ALL OF MY LITERARY WORK--
AND INDEED, ALSO MY ACADEMIC WORK--
IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.
IN THIS WAY, I BANISHED ROMANIAN--
THE ROMANIAN LANGUAGE FROM MY LIFE.
BUT HAVE I?
HERE WE GO!
THE ROOTS OF MY MEMOIR, "BURYING THE TYPEWRITER."
NOW, THE SUBJECT OF THE BOOK IS THIS--
MY PARENTS BOUGHT AN ILLEGAL TYPEWRITER IN ROMANIA.
IN ROMANIA, DURING THE COMMUNIST REGIME,
IT WAS NOT LEGAL TO OWN A TYPEWRITER UNTIL--
UNLESS YOU REGISTERED YOUR FINGERPRINTS
AND THE FINGERPRINTS OF THE TYPEWRITER
WITH THE POLICE,
BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT WAS AFRAID THAT THEY--
PEOPLE MIGHT TYPE ANTI-COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA
AND SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
MY PARENTS BOUGHT TWO.
THEY REGISTERED ONE THAT I PLAYED WITH.
THE OTHER ONE DIDN'T REGISTER TO THE POLICE,
AND MY FATHER ENDED UP BURYING THE TYPEWRITER DURING THE DAY.
SO, THE POLICE KEPT COMING TO CHECK THE ONE THAT WAS LEGAL,
AND THEY KEPT-- ANOTHER THING--
AT NIGHT, TYPING ANTI-COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA,
AND SPREADING THEM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
AFTER A FEW YEARS OF DOING THIS,
MY FATHER DECIDED HE WANTED TO DO A ONE-MAN PROTEST
AGAINST CEAUSESCU IN DOWNTOWN BUCHAREST,
AND HE DID IT, AND HE WENT TO PRISON FOR IT,
AND MY MOTHER WAS FORCED TO DIVORCE,
AND WE'RE UNDER DEATH THREATS,
AND I SUFFERED MY INTERROGATIONS FROM THE AGE OF 12,
AND WE'RE THROWN OUT OF THE COUNTRY,
AS A RESULT OF THAT.
SO, THAT'S THE SUBJECT OF MY BOOK.
BUT THERE IS ANOTHER LAYER HERE-- IS THE LINGUISTIC,
IS THE ATTITUDE TO LANGUAGE.
HERE I AM IN DAVID COPE'S CLASS,
TRYING TO FORGET MY NATIVE LANGUAGE
AND TRYING TO WRITE MY FIRST POEMS.
BUT GUESS WHAT?
MY POEMS ARE ALL ABOUT POLENTA AND FRIED CHICKEN.
(audience laughing)
AND THEY'RE ALL ABOUT MY GRANDMOTHER.
SO, THE SUBJECT OF MY POETRY IS MY CHILDHOOD, IS MY MEMORIES.
WE FAST-FORWARD 20 YEARS.
I FINISH MY DOCTORATE AT OXFORD.
I WRITE THE THESIS ON THE INFLUENCE OF EAST EUROPEAN POETS
AND IRISH POETS,
VERY MUCH RELATED TO WHAT I AM EXPERIENCING HERE.
AND THEN, MY HUSBAND AND I--
WELL, I WAS GIVEN A CREATIVE ARTS FELLOWSHIP TO--
AND ONLY IN OXFORD, GUYS, YOU CAN DO THIS.
IT'S ONLY IN OXFORD-- TRY IT.
IT WORKS WELL.
YOU-- THEY GIVE YOU THREE YEARS OF, YOU KNOW, FREE FOOD,
LIFE IN COLLEGE.
IF YOU WANT TO TEACH, YOU MIGHT TEACH.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO TEACH, WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
YOUR JOB IS TO WANDER AROUND THE BEAUTIFUL ENGLISH GARDENS
AND CREATE. (audience chuckling)
WELL, IT WORKED OUT SO WELL THAT I GOT PREGNANT RIGHT AWAY
WITH MY FIRST CHILD. (audience laughing)
MY HUSBAND GOT HIS POST-DOCTORATE FELLOWSHIP
IN PARTICLE PHYSICS, ALSO IN OXFORD.
SO, WE STARTED OUR FAMILY.
AND HERE COMES THE CRUX OF THE STORY...
I AM IN ENGLISH GARDENS, EXPLAINING TO MY HUSBAND,
"OUR SON DOESN'T HAVE TO LEARN ROMANIAN.
"ROMANIA IS A POLLUTED COUNTRY WITH BAD PEOPLE IN IT.
"LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID TO US...
"AND IT'S NOT AN IMPORTANT LANGUAGE."
"HMM, REALLY."
AS MY BELLY GROWS, I FIND MYSELF SINGING ROMANIAN BALLADS
TO MY BELLY, ALL BY MYSELF!
LIKE THIS--
(singing in Romanian)
AND THEN...
I WAS RECITING TO MY SON THE PRAYERS
THAT MY GRANDMOTHER TAUGHT ME.
(speaking in Romanian)
HERE I AM, A COMPLETE HYPOCRITE!
RIGHT?
"IT'S NOT IMPORTANT THAT MY SON LEARNS ROMANIAN,"
BUT EVERYTHING THAT IS SACRED TO ME,
EVERYTHING THAT CONNECTS ME TO GOD,
EVERYTHING THAT GIVES MEANING IN MY LIFE GOES BACK TO ROMANIAN.
SO, I THOUGHT I BETTER WRITE A BOOK ABOUT IT,
BECAUSE THIS IS A LONG STORY TO TELL.
MY SON HAS TO KNOW HOW COMES THAT WE DON'T GO TO LIVE IN ROMANIA,
AND YET, I AM TEACHING HIM ALL THESE BEAUTIFUL SONGS
WHICH HE WILL REALLY LOVE--
I MEAN, HE WILL BE THERE TONIGHT,
SO HE MIGHT BE SINGING FOR SOME OF YOU.
AND HE-- YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING THAT IS ROMANIAN.
BUT IT'S TRUE-- IT'S AN ATTITUDE TO LANGUAGE
THAT HAS BEEN CONDITIONED BY A POLITICAL REALITY,
BY A HISTORICAL MOMENT,
AND HERE IS HOW THE "I" OF THE POET
WANDERED INTO PERSONAL HISTORY, BUT ALSO--
PERSONAL BIOGRAPHY BUT ALSO INTO PERSONAL HISTORY.
SO...
NOW, THE QUESTION WAS, WHEN I WROTE THE BOOK, WAS,
"WAIT A SECOND-- I HAVE ALL THESE MEMORIES AND I'M VERY ANGRY.
"I MEAN, HOW DO I TELL THIS STORY?
"HOW DO YOU DO THIS?"
HOW DO YOU WRITE ABOUT THE POLITICAL MOMENT WITHOUT SAYING,
"GIVE ME A PLACARD AND I WANT TO BE LIKE MY FATHER--
"DOWN WITH THE TYRANTS AND THE COMMUNISTS!"
HOW DO I DO THAT?
THAT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO DO.
WHAT I WANT TO DO IS TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO MY CHILDREN,
AND TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO THE WORLD,
BECAUSE THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ASK ME,
"WHO ARE YOU?"
I MEAN, NOW I LIVE IN SWITZERLAND.
I LIVED IN ENGLAND FOR NINE YEARS.
I LIVED IN IRELAND FOR ONE YEAR.
I LIVED IN UNITED STATES FOR 12 YEARS.
AND I JUST GO AROUND WRITING POEMS ABOUT WANTING TO BUY A HOUSE SOMEWHERE,
BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE.
(audience chuckling) YOU KNOW?
I MEAN, THE LATEST EXCUSE THAT I FOUND IS, "EH, I'M AN ACADEMIC.
"I HAVE TO GO WHERE THE JOB IS."
BUT REALLY, I THINK IT GOES MUCH DEEPER THAN THAT,
IS THAT THE RESONATION WAS SO STRONG, IN OUR CASE,
THAT MY SENSIBILITY CANNOT ATTUNE ITSELF TO A PLACE,
AS MUCH AS I CRAVE IT, AS MUCH AS I WANT IT.
SO, I DECIDED THAT IT SHALL BE A CHILD SPEAKING TO A CHILD.
SO, IN MY BOOK, YOU HAVE A FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL TALKING,
AND THIS GIRL TALKS TO YOU AND TALKS TO YOU,
AND SHE GETS OLDER, AND SHE SEES MORE THINGS,
AND SHE EXPERIENCES LIFE, AND SHE COMES OF AGE.
AND THERE IS A MIX OF NAIVE, AND THERE IS A MIX OF KNOWING,
AND THERE IS ALSO-- I WANTED TO GIVE YOU THE SENSE
THAT THIS IS WHAT IS LIKE TO GROW UP IN A TOTALITARIAN REGIME--
WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR PARENTS' ACTIONS,
WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE HISTORICAL MOMENT
AND THE POLITICAL CONTEXT OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
BUT IT'S A TRUTH, BECAUSE CHILDREN CAN FEEL MORE,
EVEN THOUGH THEY UNDERSTAND LESS.
AND IT IS A PERSPECTIVE THAT IS NOT OFTEN TOLD.
I MEAN, YOU HAVE PLENTY OF HEROES WHO TELL THEIR STORIES
AND THEIR AUTOBIOGRAPHIES.
YOU HAVE THE BEAUTIFUL NELSON MANDELA--
YOU KNOW, "LONG WALK TO FREEDOM"--
YOU KNOW, THOSE THREE VOLUMES.
YOU HAVE ALL THIS WONDERFUL WORK,
BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE PERSPECTIVE OF A CHILD,
WHICH IS ALSO DISARMING.
THAT PERSPECTIVE OF THE CHILD DOESN'T, UM,
ALLOW ME TO BE ANGRY-- DO YOU KNOW?
BECAUSE AS A CHILD, YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND.
YOU'RE ANGRY WHEN YOU'RE ANGRY, BUT THEN, YOU'RE ALSO HAPPY.
THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT CHILDREN WHICH IS SO RESILIENT.
WHATEVER YOU DO TO A CHILD,
IT WILL START SMILING AT THE END OF THE DAY
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT CHILDREN DO.
UM, SO, I DECIDED THAT THAT WAS MY WAY INTO THE STORY.
AND WHAT I WANT TO DO NOW IS I WANT TO READ TO YOU
TWO EXCERPTS FROM THE BOOK--
TWO SMALL EXCERPTS FROM THE BOOK--
TO SHOW YOU THAT-- UH, OBVIOUSLY, AS A CHILD,
WHAT I REMEMBERED WAS THE MAGICAL PART OF THE CHILDHOOD,
WHICH IS IN THE FIRST PART OF THE BOOK--
GROWING UP WITH MY GRANDPARENTS ON THE FARM,
MILKING THE COWS, MAKING OUR OWN BUTTER,
LEARNING THE RITUALS OF THE LIVING,
OF THE DYING, OF THE FUNERALS,
OF THE PRIEST BEING A HUGE FIGURE, YOU KNOW, IN OUR LIVES,
UH, THE SCHOOL INDOCTRINATION TO BE AGAINST RELIGION,
BEING THE FIRST LAYER OF LEARNING TO DEAL WITH THE HYPOCRISY,
I SUPPOSE, WITH THE DUALITY.
YOU KNOW, MY GRANDMOTHER SAID, "WHEN YOU GO TO CHURCH
"AND THEY TEACH YOU THAT MAN SHOULD BELIEVE
"IN A RATIONAL POWER OF-- YOU KNOW, HIS OWN RATIONAL POWER,
"AND RELIGION IS A MYTH AND ALL OF THIS," MY GRANDMOTHER SAID,
"WHAT DO YOU DO FIRST?
"YOU CROSS YOURSELF WITH YOUR TONGUE IN YOUR MOUTH.
"THIS WAY, YOU'RE CLEAR WITH GOD.
(audience chuckling)
"AND THEN, YOU TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR,
"BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU GET PUNISHED."
SO, I GREW UP LIKE THAT, YOU SEE.
AND SO, WHAT I WANT TO DO NOW-- I WANT TO READ YOU TWO--
ER, ONE OF THIS IDYLLIC CHILDHOOD
WHICH HAS REMAINED FOR ME THE MOST IMPORTANT PART--
MEANING-- THE WELL FROM WHICH I DRAW
ALL THE HAPPINESS AND ALL THE MEANING...
HAS SUSTAINED ME THROUGH EXILE AND ALL THIS.
AND THEN, I WANT TO READ YOU
ABOUT VISITING MY FATHER IN PRISON
AS A RESULT OF HIS PROTESTS.
AND THEN, I THINK I'LL OPEN UP TO QUESTION,
BECAUSE THAT WILL BE-- WELL, WE'LL SEE.
HERE IS THE MEMORIES OF MY FIRST EASTER.
"TIME BLINKS OVER MELTING SNOW.
"HEADS OF SNOWDROPS COME OUT OF THE SURPRISED WARMED EARTH.
"'ZAMBILE ABLASTR' SAYS BUNICA,
"POINTING AT THE NEW HYACINTH BELLS
"IN THE YOUNG GRASS AROUND THE PORCH.
"'LACRIMIOARE, ZAMBILE ALBE.'
"SHE RECITES THE NAMES LIKE PRAYERS TO ME,
"AND MY CHILD-TONGUE ROLLS OVER THE B'S AND SLIPS OVER THE A'S
"AS IF I'M TASTING ROSEWATER FOR THE FIRST TIME.
"I FEEL A KIND OF LOVE FOR THE NAMES OF FLOWERS.
"THERE IS A WHOOSH OF WINGS ABOVE THE YARD,
"AND BUNICA SAYS THE MIGRATORY BIRDS WILL RETURN SOON.
"'WHAT'S MIGRATOARE?
"I ASKED, WEIGHING THE WORD MY THROAT.
"'IT'S WHEN THE STORK HOMESICK FOR THE STUB
"'OF THE OAK TREE IN OUR BACKYARD
"'RETURNS HOME TO REBUILD HIS NEST.'
"'DOR DE CASA,' I REPEAT, LOOKING AT HER EYES.
"SHE SINGS ME THE SONG OF THE CUCKOO BIRD FROM LUGOJ
"WHO LEFT HIS VILLAGE AND SPENT ALL HIS LIFE
"SINGING ABOUT IT FROM ALL THE ROOFS OF THE WORLD,
"NOT TAKING FOOD OR WATER FROM THE KIND STRANGERS
"BECAUSE HE WAS 'SICK' WITH 'HOME.'
"SO WE WAIT TOGETHER FOR THE BIRDS TO COME HOME
"AND BE HEALED.
"I'M AFRAID I WILL BE THE CUCKOO BIRD FROM LUGOJ
"AND I HUG HER AROUND HER SOFT BELLY.
"SUDDENLY IT'S EASTER EVE.
"THE HOUSE SMELLS OF BAKED SWEETBREADS, OVEN ROASTED LAMB,
"AND STUFFED ROASTED TURKEY.
"COLORFUL EGGS SIT IN WOODEN BOWLS ON THE TABLES.
"SOME WINDOWS ARE SLIGHTLY OPEN
"AND YOU CAN FEEL THE STILL-COLD-BUT-WARMING BREEZE IN THE AIR.
"WE MUST GO TO BED ON A LIGHT VEGAN DINNER
"AND WAIT FOR THE MIDNIGHT BELLS TO CALL US TO THE CHURCH.
"THIS YEAR, BECAUSE I AM ALMOST SIX AND LOREDANA ALMOST FIVE,
"MY GRANDPARENTS TAKE US TO THE MIDNIGHT SERVICE
"TO CELEBRATE THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST.
"JUST AS I FALL ASLEEP, IT SEEMS,
"BUNICU AND BUNICA TURN ON THE LIGHTS
"AND SHUFFLE AROUND THE HOUSE.
"THEY DRESS IN NEW CLOTHES-- DARK CLOTHES FOR TONIGHT,
"AS TOMORROW EVERYONE WILL WEAR BRIGHT DRESSES AND SHIRTS.
"LOREDANA AND I ARE BLIND WITH SLEEP
"BUT WAKE UP WHEN BUNICU GIVES US EACH CANDLES
"DECORATED WITH TINY WHITE RIBBONS
"AND LOTS OF PINK, RED, AND BLUE FLOWERS.
"'FOR THE RESURRECTION,' HE EXPLAINS.
"THE FOUR OF US WALK OUT OF THE HOUSE SLOWLY,
"LEAVING ON ONE LIGHT IN THE KITCHEN
"TO WAIT FOR OUR RETURN.
"THE VILLAGE IS FILLED WITH SLEEPY 'GOOD EVENING TO YOU' GREETINGS.
"FROM EVERY STREET CORNER, PEOPLE COME OUT INTO MIDNIGHT
"LIKE A WHISPERING RIVER,
"LOOKING UP AT THE STARS IN THE CLEAR SKY.
"EVERYONE WHISPERS.
"THE CHURCH BELLS TOLL.
"FROM THE ENTRANCE, EVEN THE STERN SAINTS
"IN THE BYZANTINE PAINTINGS LOOK HAPPY TO SEE US.
"THE PRIEST AND HIS HELPERS ARE DRESSED
"IN MAGNIFICENT REGAL CLOTHES OF GOLD, VIOLET, AND SILVER,
"AND THE PRIEST HOLDS A TALL WHITE CANDLE
"FROM WHICH SPRING FRESH FLOWERS THAT SPILL OVER HIS HANDS.
"THERE IS A SMALL LIGHT IN THE CHURCH AND HE SINGS,
"'VENITI SA LUATI LUMINA.'
"MY GRANDPARENTS TAKE US TO THE PRIEST'S CANDLE
"AND WE LIGHT OURS FROM IT.
"I DON'T KNOW WHAT I FEEL,
"MAYBE A SENSATION THAT I AM SUDDENLY FAR INSIDE TIME.
"THERE ARE TEARS STREAMING FROM MY FACE.
"THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE WHEN A COLLECTIVE EMOTION,
"A SORT OF LIGHT, PULSES THROUGH ME
"AND I UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETHING BIGGER THAN ME
"IS HAPPENING-- SOME KIND OF UNITY.
"EVERYONE SMILES.
"AND THEN HUNDREDS OF CANDLES ARE LIT.
"THE SERVICE GOES ON FOREVER.
"I FALL ASLEEP ON EACH OF MY GRANDPARENTS.
"MY SISTER FALLS ASLEEP ON THEM TOO,
"UNTIL WE ARE BEING PUSHED GENTLY IN FRONT OF THE PRIEST
TO TAKE COMMUNION, WHEN WE SING 'HRISTOS A INVIAT'--
"'CHRIST HAS RISEN.'
"WE WALK HOME WITH OUR CANDLES STILL LIT,
"AS DOES EVERYONE ELSE.
"AT DAYBREAK OUR TINY LIGHTS, WHICH FLICKER IN THE WIND,
"ARE THE STARS ON EARTH
"RETURNING TO THEIR BEDS TO SLEEP.
"AT HOME BUNICA PLACES A RED EGG AND A COIN IN A CUP,
"ONE FOR EACH OF US,
"AND FILLS THE CUP WITH WATER.
"SHE ASKS US TO WASH OUR HANDS AND FACES WITH THE WATER
"FOR GOOD LUCK,
"AND THEN WE SIT AT THE TABLE TO EAT OUR BOILED EGGS.
"WE ALL KEEP OUR EASTER COIN.
"WE GO TO BED AS THE BIRDS WAKE UP ON EASTER DAY.
"I FALL ASLEEP HOLDING LOREDANA'S HANDS,
"VESTMENTS OF GOLD AND PURPLE TWIRLING IN CANDLELIGHT
"IN MY MIND'S EYES."
SO, YOU KNOW, LIFE HAS A RHYTHM.
EVERYTHING WAS COMPLICATED AND WITH MANY LAYERS
AND WITH MANY RITUALS,
AND THERE WAS A COMBINATION OF SUPERSTITION AND RELIGION,
AND ALL KINDS OF RITUALS THAT WE'VE LEARNED
AND WE INTERNALIZED.
AND I THINK BY THE TIME WE WERE, HMM, 10 OR 15 YEARS OLD,
WE COULD GIVE YOU A WISE SAYING ABOUT EVERYTHING.
I MEAN, BECAUSE WE'RE ALWAYS LISTENING TO PEOPLE TALKING,
AND THEY ALWAYS-- THEY HAD AN EXPLANATION FOR EVERYTHING.
I MEAN, AND MY GRANDMA WAS FANTASTIC WITH SUPERSTITION,
YOU KNOW?
YOUR NOSE ITCHES ON THE OUTSIDE, IT'S A GOOD SIGN.
IF IT ITCHES ON THIS SIDE, IT'S A BAD SIGN.
IF YOU LEFT EYE BLINKS, THAT'S BAD NEWS.
IF YOUR RIGHT EYE BLINKS LIKE THIS,
YOU KNOW, IT TWITCHES, IS GOOD NEWS.
I MEAN, IT WAS ALL EVERYTHING.
AND THEN, THEY ALSO INTERPRETED DREAMS.
SO, YOU KNOW-- AND NOW, I'M TEACHING MY SON THIS.
I DON'T MEAN TO DO THAT, BUT IT'S ALL PART OF MY,
YOU KNOW-- TODAY, I WOKE UP AND I HAD THE DREAM LAST NIGHT
THAT THE MONT BLANC-- WE LIVE--
WE SEE THE MONT BLANC FROM OUR KITCHEN WINDOW IN GENEVA THERE.
AND I DREAMT, LAST NIGHT, THAT MONT BLANC
HAS TURNED INTO A VOLCANO
AND I WAS TRYING TO SAVE MY HUSBAND, AND THEN,
STEPHAN WOKE UP-- HE SAID, "MOMMY, I HAD A DREAM, TOO!
"I HAD A DREAM, TOO!
"I WAS DREAMING THAT I WAS GOING TO SCHOOL
"AND I COULDN'T FIND MY TOYS THAT I WANTED TO TAKE,
"BUT YOU TELL ME THAT YOU'LL BUY ME A NEW ONE!"
SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL SHARING THESE THINGS,
AND IT WAS WONDERFUL.
NOW, AS THE FOOD SHORTAGES--
MY PARENTS WORKED AT THE GROCERY STORE,
AND AS THE FOOD SHORTAGES HAVE BECOME MORE DIFFICULT TO BEAR,
THEY'VE BECOME, YOU KNOW--
MY FATHER HAS RETURNED TO HIS EARLIER POLITICAL DISSIDENCE.
AND MY MOTHER SUPPORTED HIM VERY MUCH, AND SO,
THEY TYPED THOSE FLYERS.
WHAT I WANT TO READ TO YOU NOW IS ABOUT MY FIRST VISIT,
BY MYSELF-- IT WAS A COUSIN-- A COUSIN WAS SENT WITH ME,
BECAUSE I WAS ONLY 12, I THINK-- 12 OR 13.
HE WAS SENT WITH ME TO CHAPERONE ME TO THIS.
SO, AT THIS POINT, MY FATHER WAS NOT YET CONDEMNED.
HE WAS KEPT UNDER THE INTERROGATION
AT THE RAHOVA PRISON IN BUCHAREST.
MY MOTHER WAS IN THE HOSPITAL WITH MY BROTHER,
BUT SHE WAS ARRESTED IN THE HOSPITAL,
SO SHE COULDN'T REALLY GO TO VISIT HIM.
AND MY SISTER WAS NOT ALLOWED TO GO VISIT MY FATHER,
BECAUSE SHE WAS A YOUNGER OF THE FAMILY.
SO, IT FELL TO ME, THE LUCK OF BEING THE OLDEST IN THE FAMILY,
TO GO TO VISIT HIM AND TO BRING HIM SOME CLOTHES.
UM...
AND THAT MOMENT...
OBVIOUSLY, IS ONE OF THOSE WHICH HAVE ALSO MARKED ME
FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
I MEAN, SEEING YOUR FATHER IN PRISON
AFTER YOU KNOW THAT YOUR FATHER
IS A MAN WHO PROVIDES FOOD FOR EVERYONE ELSE,
FIXES EVERYONE'S CARS AND T.V.s,
AND IS ALSO MY DADDY WHO SWAM WITH ME,
YOU KNOW, ON HIS BACK IN THE BLACK SEA
AND TAUGHT ME EVERYTHING ABOUT OVID AND TRISTIA.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW.
IT WAS A VERY STRONG EXPERIENCE
AND I WANT TO SHARE THAT WITH YOU.
"THE GATES OF THE RAHOVA PRISON ARE GREY, RUSTED,
"AND HEAVIER THAN ANY WALL I HAVE EVER SEEN.
"THEY ARE COVERED IN THE DUST OF THE CAPITAL'S OUTSKIRTS,
"COMING FROM CONSTRUCTION SITES.
"COMRADES CEAUSESCU AND HIS WIFE SIT AROUND EVERY NOW AND THEN
"AND MOVE BLOCKS ALONG AN ARCHITECTURAL BOARD,
"SHIFTING BUILDINGS FROM ONE SIDE OF THE CITY TO THE OTHER,
"BUILDING APARTMENT BLOCKS AND DEMOLISHING CHURCHES.
"THE CITY AND ITS OUTSKIRTS FEEL LIKE A GIANT HIVE
"OF BULLDOZERS AND DUST.
"FANEL"-- WHO'S MY COUSIN-- "AND I LEAN TOWARDS
"THE SMALL SQUARE PRISON WINDOW.
"WE LOOK FOR THE GUARD.
"WHILE FANEL INTRODUCES US,
"A TERRIBLE IRON-GRATING SOUND COMES FROM THE MAIN GATE,
"WHICH GLIDES SLOWLY ON ITS WHEELS
"ALONG A SMALL TRACK.
"I PEER INSIDE THE COURTYARD.
"THERE ARE DILAPIDATED BUSES LOADED WITH CRIMINALS COMING OUT,
"AND THERE ARE MORE CRIMINALS WHO WALK INTO THE SQUARE GRAY BUILDING.
"EVERYONE EXCEPT THE GUARDS WEAR STRIPED UNIFORMS AND HATS
"THAT LOOK LIKE THOSE WORN BY CHEFS.
"THERE ARE CHAINS AROUND THEIR FEET AND THEIR HANDS,
"SO THE NOISE OF DRAGGING IRON MIXES WITH THE DUST
"RISING FROM THE EARTH.
"THE GUARDS YELL AT THE PRISONERS TO MOVE FASTER.
"I STAND AT THE MOUTH OF HELL, MY OWN MOUTH GAPING OPEN--
"DUST AND IMAGES COAT MY TONGUE.
"THE THOUGHT 'MY FATHER IS A CRIMINAL!'
"JUMPS INSIDE MY CHEST, POUNDS, SCREAMS,
"AND SHRIEKS INSIDE MY THROAT.
"I TASTE SNOT AND TEARS,
"AND I FEEL HOT SHAMEFUL ANGRY TEARS RUNNING OVER MY FACE.
"FANEL PULLS ME INSIDE BY THE ARMS,
"DRAGS ME INSIDE THE PRISON.
"'SHHH, COME, LET'S SEE YOUR FATHER,
"'DON'T BEHAVE LIKE THIS NOW!'
"AND SUDDENLY I AM NUMB, WALKING ALONG CORRIDORS WITH HEAVY LEGS.
"THE REVERBERATING SOUND OF MY FATHER'S CHAINS
"ON THE CONCRETE FLOOR FEELS LIKE A SLAP ON MY FACE.
"WE FACE EACH OTHER THROUGH A DOUBLE WINDOW
"WITH A MICROPHONE IN THE MIDDLE.
"I RUN TO HIM, I WANT TO TOUCH HIM.
"'PLEASE LET ME HUG MY FATHER!'
"BUT THERE IS NO WAY TO GET TO HIM.
"HIS HANDS ARE TIED BEHIND HIS BACK--
"HIS PRISON UNIFORM IS STRIPED
"LIKE THE ONES I HAVE SEEN IN THE COURTYARD ON THE OTHER MEN--
"HIS HEAD IS SHAVED-- HIS CHEEKS, THIN NOW, LOOK PALE.
"MY FATHER IS A BROKEN MAN.
"HE CRIES AS I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM CRY.
"AND I HAVEN'T A CLUE WHAT WE ARE SAYING
"OR WHAT FANEL IS SAYING,
"OTHER THAN US TELLING HIM ABOUT THE FOOD AND CLOTHING
"WE BROUGHT FOR HIM, THE SOCKS AND THE SHOES.
"ALL I SEE IS HIS FACE,
"WHICH TOWARD THE END OF THE CONVERSATION RETURNS SLOWLY
"FROM UNDERNEATH THE CURTAIN-LIKE TEARS,
"TO THE NORMAL STUBBORN FACE OF THE DAD I KNEW."
SO, THAT WAS MY FIRST VISIT TO HIM, AND THEN, OF COURSE,
WE VISITED HIM-- IT WAS THE HARSHEST PRISON IN ROMANIA
AT THE AIUD PRISON.
AND, UM...
THEN, WE-- YOU KNOW, WE WERE FORCED TO GO TO--
I WAS THE ONE WHO WENT TO THE EMBASSY,
TO THE AMERICAN EMBASSY,
AND SOUGHT POLITICAL ASYLUM FOR THE FAMILY.
AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS ON THE WAY HERE--
MY FATHER DROPPED ME HERE TO THE LECTURE--
AND WE WERE SHARING HIS MEMORIES
OF GOING TO THE EMBASSY AS WELL, AND MY MEMORIES,
AND HOW HE GOT ARRESTED AND, YOU KNOW--
HE GOT IN TROUBLE, AND THEN...
AND THEN, THE QUESTION WAS--
WE BUILT OUR HOUSE, OUR LITTLE HOUSE.
THAT WAS CONFISCATED FROM US.
THERE WERE TWO THINGS WHICH WERE CONFISCATED
BEFORE WE LEFT ROMANIA.
ONE WAS THE HOUSE THAT WE BUILT WITH OUR HANDS,
IN WHICH WE TOOK A LOT OF PRIDE.
AND THEN, THE OTHER ONE WAS MY POETRY MANUSCRIPT.
MY POETRY MANUSCRIPT WHICH,
UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF DAVID COPE,
HAS BECOME THE FIRST ROOT OF "CROSSING THE CARPATHIANS,"
BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN--
WHAT I WROTE IT IN YOUR CLASS, IT WAS BETWEEN US,
AND THEN, IT WAS AT THE BORDERS
WHEN I WROTE IT FOR MY HONORS THESIS WITH KEN MIKOLOWSKI.
AND THEN, IT BECAME-- AFTER MY PhD--
"CROSSING THE CARPATHIANS."
SO, YOU SEE HOW MANY YEARS IT ACTUALLY TAKES
TO HAVE A BOOK OF POEMS.
I MEAN, IT TOOK ME MANY, MANY-- TEN YEARS--
OH, NO, MORE THAN THAT TO ACTUALLY--
WELL, TO ORDER THE MESS OF LIFE INTO ART.
THIS IS THE SUBJECT OF MY TALK, YOU KNOW, TODAY.
JUST TO DO THAT.
TO MAKE THAT TRANSITION FROM ONE TO THE OTHER.
AND, UM...
I WANT TO-- BECAUSE I WAS TALKING ABOUT A LINGUISTIC ATTITUDE, TO...
PUTTING IN YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,
TO ORDERING THIS MESS INTO ART.
I WANT TO END TODAY'S TALK WITH A POEM--
A VERY RECENT POEM FROM A YET UNPUBLISHED COLLECTION OF POEMS,
WHICH I HOPE WILL SOON FIND A PUBLISHER.
IT'S CALLED "THE HOUSE OF STRAW"--
THE COLLECTION OF POEMS.
AGAIN, THIS HAS BEEN FINISHED FOR SOME TIME NOW,
BUT IT'S-- I KEEP RETURNING TO IT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE
AND REWORKING THE POEMS.
AND THEY HAVE TO BE PERFECT, BECAUSE WHEN THEY ARE PERFECT,
THEY RE-ORDER MY LIFE.
IT'S ANOTHER POINT THAT I WANT TO MAKE TODAY.
YOU THINK THAT THE WRITING--
THAT, YOU KNOW-- IT GOES TWO WAYS.
THE WRITING PUTS ORDER IN YOUR LIFE...
AND...
THEN, YOUR LIFE MAKES YOUR WRITING ORDERING, YOU KNOW?
THE HAPPINESS THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED AS IMMIGRANTS
IN THE LAST 20 YEARS,
THE GRATEFULNESS THAT WE FELT
AND THAT I FEEL TOWARDS THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE,
BECAUSE HERE, I HAVE COME INTO IDENTITY AS A FREE HUMAN BEING
WHO CAN BE HAPPY, AND I SUCCEEDED.
THIS ORDER THAT-- THIS GOOD LIFE
THAT I CALLED THAT WE'VE HAD HERE
HAS HELPED ME ORDER THE MATERIAL IN MY WRITING.
WITHOUT THE PERSPECTIVE OF TIME,
WITHOUT THE PERSPECTIVE OF PHYSICAL DISTANCE FROM ROMANIA,
I COULD NOT HAVE ORDERED ALL THIS MESS
INTO A COHERENT NARRATIVE THAT YOU CAN BE READING TODAY.
BUT THIS, IN RETURN, IS PUTTING ORDER IN MY LIFE,
BECAUSE NOW HERE IS A VERSION THAT,
YOU KNOW-- IT'S SOMETHING WHICH I CAN HAND TO MY SON
AND SAY, "HERE YOU GO.
"THIS IS WHERE YOU COME FROM, IF SOMEBODY ASKS YOU.
"THERE IT IS."
SO, THIS IS WHERE-- HOW THEY'RE ALL CONNECTED.
YOU CAN'T SEPARATE.
I MEAN, I KNOW I WAS TAUGHT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
THAT YOU SHOULD NEVER LOOK AT THE BIOGRAPHY OF THE AUTHOR.
YOU SHOULD READ THE WORK FOR WHAT IT IS.
IT TOOK ME FOUR YEARS OF DOING A PhD AND FOUR YEARS
OF TEACHING IN OXFORD AT THE UNIVERSITY TO UNLEARN THAT,
AND TO RECOGNIZE WHAT, I THINK,
SHOULD BE TIME-HONORED LITERARY CRITICISM
THAT YOU CANNOT SEPARATE PERSONAL BIOGRAPHY
FROM THE LYRIC PERSONA THAT WRITES.
THEY ARE LINKED TOGETHER, AND I BELIEVE IN THAT.
I THINK THAT THE CREATURE AND THE WORK--
YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THEM, UM, BECAUSE...
BECAUSE THE WORK COMES FROM THE CREATURE.
THAT'S WHAT IT IS, YOU KNOW?
I THINK, AS A POET, I HAVE TO--
I MEAN, I HAVE CHOSEN TO WRITE ONLY IN ENGLISH,
LEAVING ROMANIA TO THE PAST, TO THE NOSTALGIA AND TO PAIN.
BUT CREATIVELY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH I REJECT MY NATIVE LANGUAGE
AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH I TRY TO ESTABLISH A NEW LIFE FOR MYSELF
AS A CITIZEN OF THE WORLD, I FIND MYSELF--
LIKE IN THE FOLLOWING POEM--
YEARNING FOR THE REAL NAMES OF THINGS,
AND HERE'S THE POEM.
SUNLIGHT IN A WATERBOWL ON THE DOORSTEP,
THEN ON A POND FAR FROM HOME.
(indistinct)-- FIRE ON THE TERRA COTTA HEARTH,
THEN IN A PIT OUTSIDE A TENT
THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY, (indistinct).
MY BLACK SEA LULLING THE SHORE.
THEN DREAMS OF SEA-- WAKING CHEEKS WITH STINGING SALT.
(indistinct)-- AIR ENCIRCLING THE GRAPES OUTSIDE THE WINDOW,
THEN GLIDING WITH A PARACHUTE ABOVE A HERON.
(indistinct)-- SOIL, EXHALING AFTER RAIN
THROUGH GAPS BETWEEN CHERRY LEAVES,
THEN CRYING DIRTY TEARS FROM ROOTS OF A FALLEN BIRCH.
(indistinct).
AND I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS NOW.
(applause)
I KNOW YOU'LL HAVE QUESTIONS BECAUSE...
WHAT I SAID IS STRANGE ENOUGH FROM THE EXPERIENCE
YOU MUST HAVE LIVED HERE.
IT'S DIFFERENT ENOUGH THAT YOU MIGHT BE CURIOUS TO KNOW MORE.
YES? >> HELLO.
MY QUESTION IS HAVE YOUR VIEWS OF ROMANIA--
WHERE YOU COME FROM--
CHANGED SINCE YOU WAS A CHILD?
>> HAS THE COUNTRY CHANGED...? >> HAVE YOUR VIEWS OF IT
CHANGED SINCE YOU WAS A CHILD?
THE WAY YOU FEEL?
>> OH, THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT-- OH, YES, YES, YES.
I MEAN, THE...
THE FEELING TOWARDS ONE'S COUNTRY, I MEAN,
THEY CHANGE BECAUSE OF THE TIME. (chuckling)
BECAUSE TIME HAS PASSED, SO-- AND FOR, LIKE, EVERYONE.
THIS HAPPENS FOR EVERYONE.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU--
YOU GO LOOKING FOR STUFF THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE.
IT ALSO HAS CHANGED BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE OF LIVING
IN A DIFFERENT PLACE.
I HOPE THAT ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION,
AND I HOPE I UNDERSTOOD IT-- >> I'LL DO A FOLLOW-UP ON THAT,
CARMEN, BEFORE I GIVE IT OFF TO SOMEBODY ELSE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, WHEN I READ YOUR BOOK--
I THINK IT WAS THE SECOND OR THIRD TIME THROUGH--
I COULD SEE THAT THE HAPPY COUNTRY LIFE
IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE BOOK WAS AN ILLUSION,
GIVEN WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY
AND WITH YOUR FAMILY.
BUT THERE WAS A PART OF ME THAT WAS THINKING,
"THIS IS THE SEED OF BEAUTY THAT ROMANIA COULD BECOME."
AND BY PLANTING THAT, ON ONE LEVEL,
YOU WERE REMEMBERING THE THINGS THAT ARE GOOD ABOUT THE COUNTRY,
THAT IT COULD BECOME AGAIN.
THAT WAS THE THING I SAW IN IT, ANYWAYS.
COULD YOU COMMENT ON THAT?
>> YES, YES, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
I THINK THERE IS-- I MEAN, THERE WAS ALSO A REVIEW FROM SCOTLAND
ON SUNDAY WHO SAID JUST THAT.
THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, "WHAT HAS REMAINED FOR THIS PERSON
"FROM HER EXPERIENCE IN ROMANIA WAS A LOVE FOR THE COUNTRY."
AND I THINK THE LOVE FROM THE COUNTRY IS REALLY ENCAPSULATED
IN THE HOPE THAT YOU'RE POINTING TO.
THERE IS A SOUL IN THERE, WHICH...
A TYRANNY OR AN EXTENDED POLITICAL SYSTEM
CANNOT REALLY CHANGE, AND I BELIEVE IN THAT.
I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WERE STRONG ENOUGH BEFORE,
THAT THERE IS-- YOU KNOW, THEY WILL REGENERATE.
THEY WILL MAKE SPACE FOR THAT.
AND I THINK THAT IS THE EXTRAORDINARY SPIRIT OF ROMANIA.
NOW, AS FAR AS YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT WAS ALSO AN ILLUSION.
I WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT A BIT--
>> SURE.
>> BECAUSE WHAT I EXPERIENCED AS A CHILD WAS AN ILLUSION,
IN A SENSE THAT, "HERE WE GO, IT'S 2010,
"THE GOVERNMENT OF ROMANIA HAS ALLOWED ME, AFTER MANY YEARS,
"TO SEE THE SECRET FILES KEPT ON MY FAMILY
"BECAUSE OF MY PARENTS' DISSIDENCE."
AND LO AND BEHOLD, WHAT DO YOU THINK I FIND?
I FOUND THAT MY PARENTS WERE FOLLOWED BY INFORMERS
FROM THE YEAR I WAS BORN.
AND I FOUND HOW MY MOTHER WAS FORCED TO RENOUNCE HER CAREER
BECAUSE SHE HAS MARRIED A MAN WITH A POLITICAL PAST.
AND I FOUND A LOT OF THINGS WHICH, IN RETROSPECT,
IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY THAT I WROTE THE BOOK WHEN I DID
AND DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THESE FILES.
NOW, NOT THAT MY PARENTS AND I HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THIS,
BUT MY PARENTS ALSO HAD NO IDEA THAT MY FATHER
WAS SO SEVERELY FOLLOWED.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE WAY OF FOLLOWING
AND INFORMING ON A PERSON,
RESERVED FOR THE MOST DANGEROUS POLITICAL CRIMINALS.
ALL OF THOSE WERE EMPLOYED ON MY FATHER.
IN THE BACK OF MY BOOK, IF YOU LOOK,
THE FIRST MATERIAL THAT I PUT IN THE APPENDIX
IS THE DOSSIER THAT SHOWS YOU ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS
IN WHICH HE-- YOU KNOW, CORRESPONDENCE,
INFORMERS VISITING HIM AT WORK,
ASKING HIM QUESTIONS-- PROVOCATIVE QUESTIONS.
THEY WANTED TO KNOW HIS HABITS.
YOU KNOW, WHERE HE WENT SHOPPING
AND HOW OFTEN HE WAS TRAVELING OUTSIDE OF THE VILLAGE--
ALL OF THESE THINGS.
AND THEY DID IT AS A MATTER OF URGENCY
BECAUSE WHERE MY PARENTS MOVED,
THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMERS WHO KNEW MY FATHER,
SO THEY HAD TO TRAIN NEW INFORMERS
TO BECOME FRIENDS WITH THEM.
SO, IN THAT SENSE, WHAT I HAVE LIVED HAS BEEN...
HAS BEEN A CHILD'S INNOCENT UNKNOWN, UNKNOWING LIFE.
I'M GLAD I GOT THAT,
BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS THE SEED WHICH I HOPE WILL...
WILL BRING ROMANIA OUT.
AND I ALSO HAVE NEWS FOR YOU-- THREE DAYS AGO,
MY MOTHER AND I CAME BACK FROM CHICAGO.
WE CAME WITH THE AMTRAK, WHICH WAS LATE,
SO WE HAD TO TAKE A BUS-- WE GOT HOME AT 1:00 IN THE MORNING,
YOU KNOW, ALL TIRED-- A ONE-YEAR-OLD BABY IN MY ARMS
AND MY SON AND ALL OF THIS, MY MOTHER-IN-LAW, MY HUSBAND.
MY MOTHER IS AWAKE.
"HUH," WE THOUGHT, "OH, MY GOD.
"I MEAN, IT'S LATE-- WHY ARE YOU UP?"
SHE HAS RECEIVED HER DOSSIER...
WHICH, IN MY BOOK, I SAY MY FATHER'S DOSSIER
THAT I GOT FROM BUCHAREST WAS 1,500 PAGES OF NOTES.
WELL, MY MOTHER'S IS 3,000 PAGES.
AND NOW, WE'RE SITTING IN OUR LIVING ROOM ON A CHAIR,
ON A BIG PILE,
AND IT CONTAINS ABSOLUTELY ALL THE TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS
THAT WE'VE HAD,
ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST YEAR IN ROMANIA,
WHEN WE WERE UNDER HOUSE ARREST.
EVERYTHING... EVERYTHING.
SO, NOW, I HAVE AN ARCHIVAL IDENTITY.
MY NEWEST PROBLEM IS ANYONE IN THE WORLD
CAN GO AND SEARCH THAT...
NOT THAT WE SAID ANYTHING PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT
OR DANGEROUS OR OF INTEREST TO ANYONE.
BUT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE VERY INTIMATE LIFE--
I MEAN, THINK ABOUT THE BASIC THINGS
LIKE FARTING IN A HOUSE... (audience chuckling)
SWEARING AT SOMEONE BECAUSE YOU'RE ANGRY,
TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE--
YOU KNOW, INTIMATE THINGS ABOUT IT.
THEY'RE ALL STATE PROPERTY.
I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT, NOW.
SO...
IT WILL TAKE ME SOME TIME TO ORGANIZE MY MIND
AROUND ALL OF THIS...
TO DEAL WITH MY ARCHIVAL IDENTITY.
YEAH? >> OTHER QUESTIONS?
YEAH, HERE'S A MICROPHONE.
>> I SEE A FEW HANDS, BUT IF YOU CAN GET THEM...
>> I'LL TRY.
>> I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT ROMANIAN LITERATURE,
AND WHAT YOU MAY HAVE HAD ACCESS TO AS A CHILD,
WHAT YOU MAY HAVE READ,
AND MAYBE WHAT YOU'VE READ AFTER YOUR FREEDOM
OR YOUR IMMIGRATION INTO THE UNITED STATES,
IN TERMS OF ROMANIAN LITERATURE.
>> YES.
SO, WHEN I GREW UP, OBVIOUSLY, WE--
I DEVOURED EVERYTHING YOU COULD FIND IN A LIBRARY, AS A CHILD.
I FOCUSED A LOT ON ROMANIAN POETS,
AND BOTH THE TOTALITARIAN REGIME AND THE PEOPLE BEFORE,
AND NOW, THE PEOPLE IN THE FREE ROMANIA--
I MEAN, ALL THE THREE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS--
THEY ALL EMBRACE THE POETRY OF MIHAI EMINESCU.
HE IS QUITE WELL KNOWN IN THE WEST, AS WELL, HERE.
AND IN FACT, I DID A COURSE-- A TRANSLATION COURSE--
AT UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AS ONE OF MY INDEPENDENT TUTORIALS,
WHERE I TRANSLATED SOME OF HIS POEMS MYSELF, AS WELL.
UM...
YOU KNOW, WE CALL HIM OUR "SHAKESPEARE"-- A ROMANTIC POET.
AND SO, I WAS VERY MUCH INTO HIS POETRY.
THERE IS ALSO LUCIAN BLAGA, ANOTHER POET,
WHO WROTE A LOT ABOUT VILLAGE LIFE AND ABOUT THIS SENSE--
THE SPIRITUAL SENSE OF TIMELESSNESS.
I LOVE THAT.
YOU KNOW, THAT IDEA THAT YOU'RE IN ONE PLACE-- YOU'RE SORT OF--
I THINK IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO TAOISM OR BUDDHISM.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SIT IN ONE PLACE
AND YOU FEEL THE ENERGY OF A PLACE JUST GOING THROUGH YOU,
AND YOU BECOME ONE WITH THE NATURE.
THAT KIND OF THINKING WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME,
WAS VERY CALMING TO ME.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, WE ARE FORCED TO READ
ALL OF THE COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA,
ALL THE SOCIALIST-REALIST STUFF,
WHICH IS-- WE ARE-- MY FATHER STILL REMEMBERS, AND MY MOTHER,
THAT WE USED TO GO HOME
AND RECITE ALL THE POEMS CREATED LIKE A COOKIE-CUTTER,
YOU KNOW, ABOUT "ROMANIA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY
"IN THE WORLD,"
AND "ALL THE HAPPY PEASANTS ARE JUMPING DOWN
"AND MARCHING TO THE TRACTORS-- IT WAS WONDERFUL."
AND SO, WE--
THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM ACTUALLY WAS QUITE GOOD IN ONE SENSE...
IT MADE US MEMORIZE POETRY WHEN WE WERE YOUNG.
SO, WE HAD TO MEMORIZE LOADS OF THAT STUFF.
IT WORKED WELL FOR THE BRAIN,
EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T REALLY HIGH LITERARY WORK.
BUT WE ALSO WERE-- UH, YOU KNOW, THEY TAUGHT US
A BIT OF CLASSICAL LITERATURE, A BIT OF LATIN, AND YOU KNOW,
WE LEARNED ABOUT THE FRENCH SYMBOLIST POETS, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO, THERE WAS A LOT OF THAT COMING OUT.
>> JUST AS A SIDE COMMENT ON THAT,
YOU CAN GO THROUGH CARMEN'S BOOK--
I HAVEN'T DONE IT YET--
SHE GIVES YOU HER READING LISTS IN THE COURSE OF HER GROWING UP,
WHAT SHE'S READING AT EVERY ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.
AND FROM AN AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE,
SHE WAS FAR BETTER EDUCATED, IN SOME WAYS, THEN WE ARE...
AS FAR AS LITERATURE GOES.
>> YEAH, I WROTE DOWN WHAT I REMEMBERED THAT I WAS READING
AT VARIOUS TIMES.
I MEAN, AGAIN, IT WAS DANGEROUS STUFF READING "ANNA KARENINA"
OR "CRIME AND PUNISHMENT" AT THE AGE OF 14.
IT WAS... (chuckling)
NO, NO.
IT WAS A BIT-- THERE WAS DEMOCRACY, IN THAT SENSE.
NOBODY REALLY CARED WHAT YOU ARE READING,
EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE READING ABOUT THIS VERY HEAVY,
PHILOSOPHICAL WORKS THAT COULD REALLY, YOU KNOW,
MESS YOUR MIND UP IF YOU'RE TOO YOUNG.
BUT THEN AGAIN, TO RETURN TO ROMANIA,
THERE WAS ONE PARTICULAR WRITER WHO HAS STAYED WITH ME--
AND I ALSO TALK ABOUT IN A BOOK, AT THE END OF THE BOOK,
WHEN WE LEAVE ROMANIA-- IS ION CREANGA.
AND EVERY ROMANIAN-- EVERY ROMANIAN WILL TELL YOU ABOUT.
HE'S A WRITER FROM MOLDAVIA WHOM...
GREW UP IN A VILLAGE VERY MUCH LIKE MY VILLAGE,
AND WAS FULL OF RELIGION MIXED WITH SUPERSTITIONS,
AND AS A CHILD, HE WAS VERY, VERY NAUGHTY...
AND AT SOME POINT, WE MEMORIZED IT SO MUCH-- MY SISTER AND I--
THIS BOOK, "AMINTIRI DIN COPILARIE,"
WHICH IS, "MEMORIES OF CHILDHOOD,"
THAT WE COULDN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN OUR LIFE AND HIS LIFE.
DO YOU KNOW?
HIS MEMORIES HAVE BECOME OURS, SO AT SOME POINT, WE DIDN'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I REMEMBER I WAS TAKING THE HATCHET,
GOING OUTSIDE THE HOUSE-- THE DOORSTEP--
WHEN IT WAS RAINING,
AND PUTTING THE HATCHET ON THE GROUND, GOING LIKE THIS-- WHAP!
TRYING TO STOP THE RAIN,
AND DOING THE CHANT THAT HE WAS HAVING IN HIS BOOK.
AND THAT WAS SOMETHING WHICH I REMEMBER IN MY BOOK,
AS I WAS LEAVING.
I WAS CHANTING PRAYERS TO STOP THE RAIN TO-- YOU KNOW?
SO, HUGE-- I MEAN, THEY HAVE HUGE IMPORTANCE
ON OUR IMAGINATION.
SINCE WE CAME HERE,
I'VE READ VERY, VERY LITTLE ROMANIAN LITERATURE.
LIKE I SAID, I REALLY ABANDONED THE LANGUAGE,
AND I REALLY ABANDONED EVERYTHING.
THE ONLY BOOK WHICH I HAVE CLEAR MEMORIES OF READING HERE
IS MIHAI ION PACEPA'S "RED HORIZONS,"
WHICH IS ALSO IN ENGLISH AVAILABLE.
HE WAS THE RIGHT MAN OF CEAUSESCU,
AND HE TALKS ABOUT-- I MEAN, HERE YOU GO--
MINE IS A PERSONAL TESTIMONY FROM THE EXPERIENCE
OF THOSE WHO SUFFERED AND THOSE WHO DISSENTED,
BUT HERE, IF YOU READ HIS BOOK,
YOU HEAR HOW THEY DID IT, HOW THEY ENGINEERED EVERYTHING,
HOW THEY TRAINED.
SO, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT DOCUMENT.
HE WROTE HIS MEMOIRS AFTER HE DEFECTED FROM ROMANIA,
AS A RESULT OF HIS DISAGREEMENT WITH CEAUSESCU,
IN A PRIVATE CONVERSATION, TO START KILLING PEOPLE.
AND HE SAID, "I'VE DONE A LOT OF DECEIVING AND A LOT OF SPYING,
"BUT I'M NOT WILLING TO ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY KILL ANYONE MYSELF,"
SO...
HE LEFT HIS FAMILY THERE
AND HE SOUGHT POLITICAL ASYLUM IN THE STATES.
AND THEN, HE WROTE HIS MEMOIRS.
AND I MEAN, MY FATHER DOESN'T THINK MUCH OF HIM.
I MUST ALSO SAY THIS PUBLICLY, BECAUSE HERE'S MY FATHER--
IF HE HEARS ME TALKING ABOUT THIS,
AND I BREAK THE RULE OF THE FAMILY.
SO, HERE YOU HAVE IT-- MY FATHER DOESN'T THINK MUCH OF HIM.
BUT I THINK IT'S A TREMENDOUS DOCUMENT.
SO-- AND IT'S AVAILABLE IN ENGLISH.
AND THAT'S ABOUT IT, REALLY.
I MEAN, I THREW MYSELF INTO EVERYTHING ENGLISH.
>> OKAY, WE HAVE ONE HERE, AND THEN, MAYBE SOME OTHERS, TOO.
>> (with accent) CARMEN, YOU ARE A REAL TREAT,
CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED NOTHING
LIKE WHAT YOU'VE EXPERIENCED, AS YOU KNOW MY BACKGROUND,
BEING A EUROPEAN IN EGYPT AND BEING BORN THERE.
I HAD AN AUNT-- SHE IS 93 YEARS OLD--
SHE WAS A ROMANIAN, BUT SHE WAS BORN IN EGYPT
AND SHE WAS JEWISH, AND I REMEMBER, AS A KID,
SHE WOULD TELL US ABOUT ROMANIA BECAUSE SHE VISITED,
AND SHE WOULD TALK IN THE EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE LIKE--
OH, WHAT WAS HER NAME?
THAT FAMOUS-- MAGDA LUPESCU AND SOME OF THESE FAMOUS CHARACTERS.
AND I USED TO HAVE A FEELING,
HAVING STUDIED A BIT ABOUT THE ALSO HUNGARIAN EMPIRE,
AND THE SPIN-OFF OF HOW ROMANIA WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING AKIN--
IT WAS ALMOST LIKE MAGICAL, AS A COUNTRY.
AND THEN, OF COURSE, AS I GOT INVOLVED IN POLITICAL SCIENCE
AND I READ ABOUT ANA-- WHAT WAS HER NAME?
ANA PAUKER.
YES, AND SOME OF THESE FOREFRONT OF THE COMMUNISTS.
AND THEN, THE MOST TRAGIC EXAMPLE THAT HIT ME
WAS THE SUBJECT OF THE CHILDREN WHO WERE INFECTED-- THE BABIES--
THE CHILDREN WHO WERE INFECTED BECAUSE OF THE SO-CALLED--
WHAT WAS THAT-- BLOOD TRANSFUSION THAT THEY WERE GIVEN?
>> THE CONTAMINATED BLOOD. >> YES...
THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS YOU'RE GIVING ME A PICTURE
THAT'S ALMOST TOO MILD AFTER WHAT I HAD READ, WHEN I READ.
SO, YOU'RE BEING VERY KIND?
OR IS IT JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU HADN'T EXPERIENCED REALLY,
THE EXTENT OF THE EXTREME VIOLENCE
OF THAT FASCINATING COUNTRY
THAT I WAS BEING EXPOSED TO BY MY AUNT?
AND THEN, SUDDENLY, HERE YOU HAVE THIS EXPERIENCE
THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
IT YOU'RE BEING VERY, VERY MAGNANIMOUS,
OR SOMETHING ALONG THAT LINE.
BUT YOU HAVEN'T SAID MUCH ABOUT SOME OF THE REAL BRUTALITIES
THAT I'VE READ ABOUT.
NOW, ARE YOU BEING CAUTIOUS ABOUT THAT OR WHAT?
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT-- TWO VERY IMPORTANT POINTS
THAT YOU'RE MAKING THERE,
AND I CAN ADDRESS BOTH OF THEM.
MY FATHER IS ABLE TO DO A REAL TESTIMONY ABOUT THE BRUTALITIES
AND THE REAL HORRIBLE THINGS THAT HAPPENED.
BUT I WANT TO SAY ONE THING-- WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE AIDS--
THE INFECTIONS WITH THE NEEDLES.
WE CAME TO THE UNITED STATES,
AND WE HAD PEOPLE FROM THE CHURCH, I THINK, IN FACT,
FROM FAITH UNITED-- PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW--
AND THEY SAID, "OH, MY GOD,
"IT'S HORRIBLE WHAT HAPPENED.
"WE JUST SAW ON T.V.-- WE SAW A DOCUMENTARY
"ABOUT ALL THESE PEOPLE INFECTED."
IT WAS SO WELL KEPT SECRET...
THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW, AS PEOPLE WHO LIVED THERE.
AND THAT'S WHEN...
THAT'S WHEN-- THE OTHER THING, TOO,
IS I GAVE YOU HERE REALLY THE PERSPECTIVE OF A CHILD
GROWING UP, NOT KNOWING.
AND I THINK THIS COUNTS FOR A LOT,
FOR ME NOT GOING INTO-- AND I TRIED TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT,
SPECIFICALLY, BECAUSE NOT ONLY THAT A CHILD WOULDN'T KNOW,
BUT IF I WERE TO GO INTO THAT, TO PROVIDE MORE BACKGROUND
OF ALL THE ATROCITIES THAT WERE HAPPENING THERE--
I MEAN, THERE WERE SO MANY THINGS,
AND THERE WERE--
WELL, WHEN WE WERE LISTENING TO RADIO FREE EUROPE
BECAUSE IT'S ALL WE WERE FINDING--
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SETTING THEMSELVES ON FIRE
IN THE CITY CENTERS,
PROTESTING FOR THE GOVERNMENT...
AND WE'D HEAR ABOUT IT.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT I DIDN'T WRITE ABOUT IN MY BOOK.
I TRIED TO MAKE IT VERY, VERY SIMPLE.
AND SOMEBODY ELSE MADE THIS POINT--
IN FACT, I HAD A WONDERFUL REVIEW
IN A LITERARY REVIEW IN ENGLAND,
AND IT WAS WRITTEN BY A JOURNALIST WHO WENT TO ROMANIA IN 1985,
AND HE SAID THEIR VISIT THERE WAS SO ORCHESTRATED,
HE SAID, "I AM EMBARRASSED, AS A WESTERNER,
"TO HAVE BEEN IN THE COUNTRY THE SAME YEAR
"THAT CARMEN AND HER FAMILY WERE HUMILIATED
"TO SEE THEIR PARENTS DIVORCE IN PUBLIC,"
BECAUSE THEIR MOTHER WAS DIVORCE--
"I'M HUMILIATED THAT I DIDN'T OPEN MY EYES."
HE SAID THE ONLY THING THAT BUGGED HIM
IS THAT THE HOTEL STAFF WAS VERY UNFRIENDLY TO HIM.
AND YET, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU ANOTHER STORY.
I WAS GIVING A READING IN CHICAGO
AT A VERY FAMOUS BOOKSTORE--
IT'S "THE BOOK CELLAR"-- THREE DAYS AGO.
AND THERE, THERE WAS A WOMAN WHO WAS THE WIFE
OF SOMEBODY WORKING FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE IN 1984.
A VERY IMPORTANT PERSON WHO CAME SPECIFICALLY TO HEAR ME.
AND SHE SAID SHE WENT TO ROMANIA IN 1984,
AND THEY WERE INVITED--
THEY WERE ALLOWED TO TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES,
AND THEY WERE EVEN INVITED AT A WEDDING,
AND THERE WAS SO MUCH FOOD, AND THERE WAS SO MUCH ABUNDANCE,
AND THERE WERE SO MANY DANCING FEASTS
AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF...
AND THERE I WAS SAYING, "HAVE YOU BEEN IN THE SAME COUNTRY
"AS I HAVE BEEN?" (audience chuckling)
THINGS WERE SO ORCHESTRATED--
IT IS 23 YEARS AFTER THE FALL,
AND SHE'S FINDING OUT IN A CONVERSATION WITH ME
THAT SHE HASN'T BEEN IN THE SAME COUNTRY
SHE THINKS SHE WAS.
BECAUSE AS A WIFE OF A VERY IMPORTANT PERSON, IT WAS--
THE ONLY THING SHE SAID WAS WRONG
WAS THAT THE ROMANIAN AMBASSADOR IN WASHINGTON
SAID TO HER, PRIVATELY,
"PLEASE, BRING POWDERED MILK WITH YOU,
"IF YOU'RE TAKING YOUR SIX-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER,
"BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT FIND FRESH MILK IN ROMANIA."
AND SHE SAID, "THAT WAS ODD."
AND THEN, IN FACT, YOU KNOW, THEY FOUND FOOD AND THEY--
AND I SAID, "ARE YOU SURE YOU TRAVELED FREELY?"
WHAT THEY DID IS THEY HAD DIFFERENT KIND OF ACQUAINTANCES
OR FRIENDS OR PEOPLE THAT PASSERSBY,
THAT WHEN THEY WERE ASKING INFORMATION,
THEY WERE TAKING THEM TO THE PLACES
WHICH WERE PREPARED FOR THEM.
I MEAN, SHE WAS IN A MONASTERY WHERE THE NUNS
WERE TAKING BATHS IN MARBLE BATHTUBS.
COME ON!
YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING OF, "GIVE ME A BREAK, LADY-- WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?"
YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T EX--
HOW MANY MONASTERIES IN ROMANIA HAVE THAT?
I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ONE.
YOU KNOW, SO...
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I AM BEING VERY GENTLE...
AND I AM BEING VERY, YOU KNOW--
WELL, I'M RECOGNIZING THE MAGICAL OF THE SOUL OF THE PEOPLE,
WHO-- I THINK THAT IS TIMELESS.
BUT THEN, I'M TELLING YOU, ALSO, WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED
AND WHAT MY FAMILY HAS EXPERIENCED PRECISELY--
THIS IS THE TITLE OF MY TALK.
BECAUSE THE EYE THAT WANDERS INTO THE LARGER HISTORY
CAN ONLY GO SO FAR.
YEAH, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL GLADLY TELL YOU--
I MEAN, MY FATHER SAYS, "OH, YOU HAVEN'T SAID ABOUT THIS,
"YOU HAVEN'T SAID ABOUT THIS," BUT THEN AGAIN...
MY FATHER NEEDS TO GIVE A PUBLIC TESTIMONY
ABOUT WHAT HE SUFFERED AND WHAT HE SAW.
HE IS DYING TO DO THIS,
AND IT WILL TAKE SOMEBODY WHO CARES
AND IT WILL TAKE SOMEBODY WHO CAN MAKE IT PUBLIC.
BECAUSE HE WILL TELL YOU ABOUT THE LABOR CAMPS--
I MEAN, HE WAS TRANSFERRED FROM ONE LABOR CAMP TO ANOTHER.
AND HE WAS KEPT ON TRAIN TRACKS FOR MONTHS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT...
WITHOUT HEATING, WITHOUT--
THEY WOULD PUT FOOD IN A SMALL LITTLE WINDOWS.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO PEE IN A LITTLE HOLE, AND DO THAT,
AND HE-- THIS IS A MAN WHO--
I CAN ONLY TELL YOU WHAT WE EXPERIENCED AS A FAMILY.
I DON'T--
IT'S ALSO OUT OF A SENSE OF HONOR AND RESPECT FOR HIM...
I HAVE TO KEEP THINGS TO WHAT I KNOW,
AND LET HIM HAVE HIS STORY, BECAUSE HE SUFFERED.
>> MY QUESTION IS, UM...
YOU TELL SUCH A POWERFUL STORY,
AND WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO YOUNG PEOPLE
THAT ALSO HAVE A POWERFUL STORY TO SHARE?
>> AH.
WELL, TELL IT. (chuckling)
(audience chuckling) I THINK, UH-- WELL, YOU KNOW,
I WAS-- TWO WEEKS AGO,
I WAS SPEAKING TO ABOUT 400 STUDENTS IN A HIGH SCHOOL.
AND THE TEACHER WHO INVITED ME TO DO THIS TALK
SAID, "YOU KNOW, CARMEN, NOW...
"DON'T WORRY."
I HAD EVERYTHING PREPARED.
AND I WAS ARMED WITH PAPERS TO READ TO THEM, YOU KNOW,
AND TO GIVE THEM BACKGROUND ON ROMANIAN POLITICS AND HISTORY
AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF, AND I WAS SAYING,
"I HAVE EVERYTHING WRITTEN DOWN-- LET ME KNOW."
AND SHE SAID, "JUST TALK ABOUT YOUR LIFE,
"BECAUSE THAT'S JUST FASCINATING JUST TO TALK ABOUT YOUR LIFE.
"DON'T-- RELAX."
AND SHE SAID THIS, "THEY MIGHT NOT KNOW ABOUT CEAUSESCU,
"ABOUT ROMANIA, EVEN ABOUT WHEN THE COLD WAR WAS,
"BECAUSE THESE ARE YOUNG CHILDREN--
"THEY'RE 14 YEAR OLDS.
"BUT WHAT THEY KNOW-- THEY WILL KNOW--
"THEY WILL RECOGNIZE THE MECHANICS OF OPPRESSION.
"IF THEY COME FROM A FAMILY THAT EXPERIENCED VIOLENCE,
"THAT THE PARENTS BEAT EACH OTHER UP,
"THAT THE PARENTS DID DRUGS,
"THAT THEY LIVED IN A BAD NEIGHBORHOOD,
"IF THEY COME FROM A PLACE WHERE THEY WERE MARGINALIZED
"BECAUSE OF WHATEVER REASON," AND SHE SAID,
"THERE ARE, FOR SURE-- THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO--
"CHILDREN WHO HAVE THEIR FATHERS IN JAIL,
"OR THEIR MOTHERS IN JAIL, FOR DOING DRUGS OR SOMETHING.
"THESE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO RELATE TO YOU
"BECAUSE THE MECHANICS OF OPPRESSION ARE THE SAME."
THE WAY YOU MAKE ANOTHER PERSON SUFFER IS THE SAME,
NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.
I MEAN, WHETHER YOU HAVE A MARITAL DISPUTE
OR A FIGHT IN A COUPLE OR BETWEEN FRIENDS OR SOMETHING,
IT'S THE SAME WAY YOU DO IT, YOU KNOW?
SO, THIS IS WHAT SHE WAS SAYING TO ME--
YOU WILL ALWAYS RELATE TO THAT,
EVEN THOUGH THE HISTORY WILL NOT BE CLEAR IN THEIR HEADS.
AND SO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION IN THIS WAY IS TO SAY,
"FIND-- THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO FIND A WAY TO SAY IT,
"AND TO TELL THE STORY."
THE OTHER THING THAT I HAD TO THINK ABOUT--
AND THIS IS, AGAIN, ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION AGAIN--
CAN PEOPLE REALLY BELIEVE EVERYTHING WE'VE BEEN THROUGH?
SO, IF I TOLD MORE... "IT'S TOO HARD TO BELIEVE."
YOU KNOW, HERE, I HAVE THE ARCHIVES TO PROVE IT,
AND I PUT THEM IN THE BACK OF THE BOOK, AND I HAVE--
YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, 4,500 PAGES TO PROVE IT,
FOR ANYONE WHO'S INTERESTED.
BUT IF I WERE TO TELL MORE OF WHAT HAPPENED TO US,
YOU WOULDN'T-- PEOPLE WOULDN'T BELIEVE--
AT SOME POINT, AND WE FOUND THIS ALSO WHEN WE MOVED TO THE UNITED STATES--
YOU TELL PEOPLE, AND THEIR EYES GO BIGGER AND BIGGER
AND THEY GO, LIKE, "OH, THAT'S UNBELIEVABLE.
"I MEAN, THIS REALLY HAPPENED TO YOU?"
SO, WHEN YOU TELL A STORY LIKE THIS THAT IS POWERFUL
AND IS FULL OF PAIN...
BE GENTLE.
PEOPLE MIGHT NOT TRUST YOU IF YOU JUST TELL ALL OF IT, EVERYTHING,
AND THE SOMETIMES IT'S ENOUGH TO SAY A LITTLE THING.
I THINK FOR ME, IT WAS ENOUGH TO TALK ABOUT THE LITTLE GIRL
GOING THROUGH INTERROGATIONS
FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND HOW POWERFUL THE TOTALITARIAN SYSTEM WAS,
WITHOUT TELLING HOW THEY BEAT MY FATHER
AND STRETCH HIM ON A WALL...
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
IT'S A FORM OF TRUTH. (chuckling)
IT IS THE TRUTH.
>> (indistinct speaking). >> EXACTLY, EXACTLY.
FOR DETAILS, YOU HAVE TO BE--
YOU HAVE TO REALLY WORK AT THE DETAILS,
BECAUSE THE STORY IS ONLY COHERENT
IF YOU MAKE IT COHERENT.
YOU CAN'T JUST-- ALSO, YOU CAN'T PUT EVERYTHING AT ONCE.
I COULDN'T TELL YOU ALL OF MY LIFE IN ROMANIA IN 200 PAGES.
I HAD TO SELECT THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A NARRATIVE,
AND THAT'S THE ART OF WRITING,
AND IT'S THE PLEASURE THAT YOU GET OUT OF READING A BOOK,
BECAUSE I ALSO WANT YOU TO LOVE READING MY LANGUAGE.
I'M A WRITER.
I WANT TO BE APPRECIATED FOR HOW I WRITE.
I DON'T WANT TO JUST BE APPRECIATED BECAUSE WE SUFFERED--
THAT'S NOT WHY I'M A WRITER.
(audience chuckling) DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
AND I MEAN-- I KNOW ALL THE RUSSIAN POETS, YOU KNOW,
WHO WENT TO DEATH BECAUSE-- TO THE LABOR CAMPS
AND THEY STOOD AGAINST STALIN
BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES AS WRITERS.
YOU DON'T WANT TO FALL IN THE TRAP
OF BEING PUT ON A PEDESTAL FOR WHAT YOU'VE SUFFERED,
AND THEN PEOPLE NOT TO APPRECIATE YOUR WRITING
FOR YOUR SKILL WITH LANGUAGE.
IF YOU'RE A WRITER, THEN YOU'RE A WRITER FIRST.
>> (indistinct speaking).
>> YEAH, YEAH.
WELL, I WROTE AN ARTICLE ABOUT THIS, ACTUALLY,
BECAUSE I WAS UNDER COMPLETE SHOCK WHEN I WAS STARTING
TO READ THROUGH THIS AFTER, AND I SAID VERY CLEARLY,
"I'M GOING TO SORT OF DEVELOP THAT."
IT WOULD HAVE STRANGLED THE VOICE OF CHILD.
THAT VOICE OF A CHILD THAT YOU SEE THERE,
TALKING AND PRANCING AND DANCING WITH THE HORSES,
WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE.
IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO HAVE IT THERE.
NOW, I DON'T HAVE IT ANYMORE.
I AM AN ANGRY PERSON.
I AM AN ANGRY PERSON THAT MY MOTHER HAD TO HAVE
ALL OF HER TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS
JUST FOR BEING MARRIED TO A POLITICAL DISSIDENT.
I MEAN, THAT INVASION OF PRIVACY
NOT ONLY THAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED
THAT THEY HAD THE KEYS TO OUR HOUSE,
NOT ONLY THAT I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE THAT THEY TOLD US
TO KEEP THE CURTAINS OPEN SO THEY COULD WALK IN,
BUT 30 YEARS LATER, TO FIND THE TRANSCRIPTS OF THE PHONE--
EVEN THOUGH I KNEW THAT THEY REGISTERED THEM,
BUT TO FIND THE ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTS...
YEAH, I'M ANGRY.
AND YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO-- WHOO-- I HAVE TO--
AT SOME POINT, I HAVE TO SAY, "BUT THIS IS BECAUSE MY PARENTS
"STOOD UP FOR FREEDOM, AND THIS IS PART OF THE COURSE.
"THIS IS--" BUT THEN AGAIN, WHEN I SAY THIS,
I DON'T WANT TO STAND UP HERE AND SAY,
"LOOK AT HOW IMPORTANT AND HOW STRONG WE ARE."
I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT EITHER, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
THIS IS SO HARD.
I DON'T WANT TO BE ON A PEDESTAL TO SAY,
"LOOK AT US, WE'RE MORE PEOPLE-- THE OTHERS WEREN'T."
AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY-- SO, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.
ALL I CAN SAY, BARB,
IS THE VOICE OF A CHILD WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE.
SO I'M VERY GRATEFUL-- I CAUGHT IT.
I THINK THIS IS GUIDED WORK, YOU KNOW?
REALLY, IT'S GUIDED WORK,
BECAUSE I CAUGHT IT AND I HAVE IT.
IT WAS MINE.
I TRULY LIVED IT, SO...
EVEN IF IT WASN'T REAL IN THE SENSE THAT THERE WAS SO MUCH
HAPPENING IN THE BACKGROUND THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT...
BUT NOW I KNOW A LOT MORE.
SO, LUCKY ME, HUH?
(chuckling) >> (indistinct speaking).
>> YEAH?
>> ONE THING THAT CAPTIVATED ME ABOUT YOUR STORY RIGHT AWAY...
WAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR GRANDPARENTS AND, UM...
LIKE, WHAT FIRST STRUCK ME WAS THE GRACE OF GOD
THAT YOU HAD THEM
BECAUSE WHO WOULD YOU BE
HAD YOU NOT HAD THAT EARLY CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE WITH THEM.
AND THEN, IT KIND OF PUT ME ON THIS PATH OF LOOKING
INTO HOW DIFFERENT SYSTEMS
CAN CHANGE FAMILY STRUCTURE AND HOW THEY OPERATE,
AND ALL THE MOTIVATIONS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN IN PLACE
FOR YOUR PARENTS TO PUT YOU IN WITH YOU GRANDPARENTS,
AND THE DIFFERENCES OF STYLE THAT THEY HAD,
AND YOU SPEAK OF YOUR PARENTS AS BEING VERY AUTHORITARIAN,
AND UNFORTUNATELY DURING THE CEAUSESCU'S REIGN,
THEY DIDN'T ALLOW ANY SOCIAL SCIENCES.
SO, I'M AT A LOSS FOR FINDING ANY RESEARCH ON THE EFFECTS
OF THE FAMILY STRUCTURE DURING THAT TIME, AND SO,
HOW COMMON WAS IT FOR CHILDREN TO BE RAISED WITH GRANDPARENTS THEN?
HOW COMMON WAS IT, I GUESS-- WERE YOU JUST LUCKY?
OR WAS THAT-- >> OH, NO, NO.
SO-- THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT
AND VERY DIFFICULT FOR US
WHEN WE MOVED TO THE UNITED STATES.
WHEN WE MOVED TO THE UNITED STATES,
WE FOUND OURSELVES A NUCLEAR FAMILY.
WHEN WE GREW UP IN ROMANIA,
WE GREW UP IN A VILLAGE AND WE GREW UP IN AN EXTENDED FAMILY.
SO, WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT YOU GROW WITH YOUR-- WITH--
IN THE HOUSE OF YOUR GRANDPARENTS.
USUALLY THE YOUNGEST PERSON IN THE HOUSE
INHERITS THE HOUSE OF THE PARENTS.
AND THEN, THE HOUSE CRUMBLES ON ONE SIDE,
AND THE YOUNG COUPLE TAKES OVER THE GARDENING,
AND THEY BUILD THE NEW ROOMS IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE,
OR WHATEVER PART OF THE HOUSE THAT IS STRONGEST.
AND THAT WAS, SINCE TIME, IMMEMORIAL.
YOU KNOW?
THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LITTLE BIT.
MY PARENTS WERE A BIT OF A MODERN PEOPLE, ACTUALLY,
BECAUSE THEY TOOK US WITH THEM TO (indistinct),
AND THEN THEY MOVED BACK BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T DO IT.
AND THEN, WE BUILT OUR OWN HOUSE.
BUT OUR HOUSE WAS REALLY, LIKE, A TEN MINUTE WALK--
NOT EVEN A TEN MINUTE WALK TO MY GRANDPARENTS' HOUSE.
SO, PEOPLE WORE-- AND THEN WE HAD ALL THE COUSINS.
I MEAN, I COULDN'T DISTINGUISH
BETWEEN MY SISTER AND MY COUSIN FLORIN
THAT I WROTE ABOUT IN THE BOOK.
WE DID EVERYTHING WITH FLORIN.
SO, YOU HAVE ALL THE COUSINS, AND YOU GROW UP TOGETHER.
AND IN FACT, I WAS TELLING MY MOTHER-IN-LAW JUST YESTERDAY,
I WAS SAYING-- BECAUSE MY HUSBAND AND I WERE BICKERING A LITTLE BIT,
AND I WAS SAYING, "OH, MY GOD,
"NOW YOU'RE LUCKY THAT YOU'RE HERE BECAUSE I CAN TALK TO YOU
"AND I CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF GETTING ME AND MY HUSBAND
"WITH MY MOTHER-IN-LAW,"
BECAUSE I SAID, "YOU KNOW, IN ROMANIA,
"THERE WOULD EVEN BE-- WHEN I GREW UP,
"THERE WOULDN'T EVEN BE SPACE TO HAVE A FIGHT WITH YOUR HUSBAND
"BECAUSE THE WHOLE FAMILY IS THERE."
(audience laughing)
YOU KNOW, THEY SOLVED THE PROBLEM
BEFORE YOU EVEN KNOW YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
(audience laughing) YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE THING.
WHEREAS HERE, PEOPLE ARE SO ISOLATED, YOU KNOW.
THEY GO CRAZY TRYING TO SOLVE IT.
SO, YEAH, THE FAMILY STRUCTURE WAS VERY MUCH--
IT WAS BEGINNING AFTER 1980s, 1990s--
I MEAN, PEOPLE HAVE MOVED TO THE CITIES,
BUT THEY ALWAYS TURNED BACK TO THE VILLAGES.
>> THERE WAS SOMEBODY IN BACK.
>> YES, YES. >> I'LL GET OVER THERE.
>> OKAY.
YOU CAN SHOUT, OKAY? >> TALK LOUD-- THAT WILL WORK.
>> (indistinct speaking)...
...(indistinct speaking)...
>> YUP.
>> (indistinct speaking)...
...(indistinct speaking)...
>> YEAH.
>> (indistinct speaking)...
>> YUP.
SO, THERE IS MARTYROLOGY, AND THIS WILL BE--
THE BEST WOULD BE MY FATHER TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION,
JUST BECAUSE HE WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU THE GORY DETAILS...
BUT THERE IS A MARTYROLOGY.
UH, PEOPLE-- RELIGIOUS PEOPLE-- ORTHODOX--
WHO DID NOT PLAY TO THE TUNE OF THE REGIME,
AND THEY WERE IN PRISONS AND THEY WERE KILLED
AND THEY WERE STARVED,
AND I HAVE A VERY GOOD FRIEND FROM OXFORD WHO JUST WROTE--
A FEW YEARS AGO, ACTUALLY--
WROTE A WONDERFUL STUDY CALLED,
"BETWEEN SUICIDE AND... SACRIFICE."
AND (indistinct), WHO IS A HUGE FIGURE--
RELIGIOUS FIGURE-- IN ROMANIA.
SO, I'LL TELL YOU AN ANECDOTE WITH THIS...
SO, MY HUSBAND AND I WERE MARRIED IN (indistinct),
IN AN ORTHODOX CHURCH BY AN ITALIAN PASTOR
WHO TURNED ORTHODOX AFTER FALLING IN LOVE
WITH A GREEK WOMAN WHO'S ORTHODOX-- OKAY.
NOW, HE SAID, "WHENEVER YOUR BOOK IS TRANSLATED INTO ITALIAN,
"I WANT TO KNOW IT.
"I WANT TO READ THIS BOOK, BECAUSE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT--"
IN OUR CONVERSATION--
"ABOUT THIS VERY COMPLICATED RELATIONSHIP
"BETWEEN THE CHURCH AND ITS PEOPLE,
"VIA THE GOVERNMENT-- MEDIATED BY THE GOVERNMENT."
HE UNDERSTOOD EVERYTHING BECAUSE HE'S GOT A LOT OF ROMANIANS
COMING TO THAT CHURCH.
WHAT HAPPENED WAS THIS--
AND IT'S VERY COMPLICATED TO EXPLAIN--
THE ORTHODOX RELIGION WAS TOLERATED AS A CULTURAL HERITAGE,
BUT NOT AS AN ACTUAL EXPERIENCE OF,
"THIS IS TRUTH-- RELIGION IS TRUTH-- GOD REALLY EXISTS,"
AND THEN WE READ THE BOOK OF THE-- YOU KNOW, THE BIBLE,
IN THE CHURCH, AND WE LEARN HOW TO BEHAVE OURSELVES...
OKAY?
BUT IN ORDER TO BE TOLERATED, THEY HAD TO--
THE PRIEST HAD TO CONTROL THEIR COMMUNITIES
AND BRING THEM TO PRAY FOR CEAUSESCU AND THE REGIME--
THERE'S ALL THESE PRAYERS FOR THE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT,
THAT THEY RUN THE COUNTRY WELL.
IN SCHOOL, WE ARE BEING TAUGHT--
I MEAN, THERE IS ALSO PRE-COMMUNISM,
AND THE TRADITION IS QUITE OLD.
SO, THE COMMUNISTS HAD TO INCORPORATE A WAY
OF VIEWING RELIGION WHEN THEY CAME TO POWER.
THEN, THERE IS THE MARXIST-LENINIST DOCTRINE
THAT TEACHES YOU THAT, YOU KNOW,
TO BE AN ATHEIST,
BECAUSE THAT'S THE MODERN WAY OF BEING,
AND YOU'RE NOT RULED BY SUPERSTITIONS
AND EMOTIONS AND GOD.
BOTH SYSTEMS ARE VERY AUTHORITARIAN,
LET ME TELL YOU THAT.
I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE,
WHEN IT COME-- WE ARE NOT ALLOWED, FOR EXAMPLE,
TO READ THE BIBLE OURSELVES, BECAUSE THEY SAID,
"IF YOU TOUCH THE BIBLE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE A WOMAN,
"YOU'LL GO TO HELL," OR "YOU'LL TURN INTO A MOUSE,"
I THINK IT WAS. (audience chuckling)
YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL THESE SUPERSTITIONS THAT WERE GOING ON,
YOU KNOW, AT LEAST IN MY VILLAGE.
I CAN'T TALK FOR ALL ROMANIA--
AGAIN, I CANNOT TALK FOR ALL OF ROMANIA
BECAUSE YOU GET ANOTHER ROMANIAN
WHO HAD A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE, IN THEIR VILLAGE,
IN THEIR PART OF THE COUNTRY,
AND IT WOULD BE A VERY STRONG EXPERIENCE-- ALSO TRUE.
SO, WE HAVE INCORPORATED THE RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE
THAT WAS ALLOWED WITH, UM...
AN ATHEIST SYSTEM.
BUT BEHIND THAT, WAS YET AN OLDER GENERATION LIKE MY GRANDPARENTS,
LIKE THEIR PARENTS,
WHO WERE TRADITIONAL ORTHODOX PEOPLE,
AND WHO HAVE BLENDED DIFFERENT KINDS OF SPIRITUALITY--
IF YOU SEE IN MY BOOK THERE, THERE IS A RITUAL
OF "THE HOUSE OF STRAW," WHICH IS HALF PAGAN, HALF RITUAL,
REALLY, IF YOU COME TO THINK ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU GIVE IN THIS LIFE TO PEOPLE
WHAT YOU WANT TO HAVE IN HEAVEN,
AND THEN YOU PHYSICALLY JUST GIVE THINGS
TO PEOPLE IN A LITTLE HOUSE OF STRAW.
BUT THE METAPHOR WORKS,
BECAUSE IT'S THE WAY YOU BEHAVE IN THIS LIFE
IS HOW GOD WILL JUDGE YOU WHEN YOU GO TO HEAVEN, YES?
SO...
AS IT WAS IN RUSSIA-- YOU KNOW, IN RUSSIA,
YOU STILL FIND-- WE HAVE SOME FRIENDS FROM OXFORD
WHO ARE FASCINATED WITH RUSSIAN CULTURE.
THEY'RE RUSSIANISTS.
AND, UM, RELIGION-- AND YOU KNOW,
THE LADIES-- ONE OF MY OLD PROFESSORS--
THEY WENT TO THE CHURCH IN RUSSIA
AND THEY SAID, "OKAY, FINE,
"ON THE ONE HAND, THEY WERE VERY ATHEIST
"AND EVERYBODY WENT TO CHURCH IN JEANS
"AND KINDA VISITED LIKE A MUSEUM..."
BUT THEN, THERE WERE VERY DEEPLY TRADITIONAL CHURCHES
WHERE SHE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO GO INTO A CHURCH
UNLESS SHE WORE A SKIRT,
SHE COVERED-- A LONG SKIRT TO COVER HER LEGS--
AND SHE WORE A SCARF.
THERE WERE VERY-- AND THOUGH--
THEY WERE SAYING SHE'S AN ABSOLUTE SINNER
IF SHE GOES THAT.
SO, YOU HAVE ALL OF THESE, UM-- LIKE I SAID,
YOU HAVE AN ARRAY OF BEHAVIOR THAT STEMS FROM THE FACT
THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO STRANGLE THE RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE
AND IMPOSE A NEW SYSTEM OF THINKING.
AND THEY COHABIT IT TO THE POINT.
YOU ALSO REMEMBER IN OUR-- IN MY BOOK--
BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU READ IT THERE,
THERE IS A PRIEST, IN FACT,
WHO GOES AND CUTS THE MICROPHONES.
YOU KNOW, IT'S A PRIEST WHO GOES AND CUTS THE MICROPHONES,
CUT THE CABLES OF THE SECRET POLICE.
WHY?
BECAUSE HE IS ALLOWED.
HE IS A MAN OF GOD.
HE CAN BE TOLERATED FOR PLAYING STUPID, YOU KNOW?
BECAUSE YOU KNOW... (chuckling)
THE MICROPHONES ARE IN THE CHURCH, YOU KNOW,
AND HE KNEW VERY WELL, AND WHY DID HE DO THAT?
BECAUSE AS A CHILD, THE CULTURE OF CONFESSION THAT I HAD
FROM MY GRANDPARENTS--
YOU KNOW, QUITE SIMILAR TO THE CATHOLIC CONFESSION, ACTUALLY.
I HAD-- ME, I WANT TO CONFESS
BUT, IN A SENSE, I WANT TO JUST EMPTY MY HEART,
JUST TELL HIM THAT, "LOOK, WE'RE REALLY SAD, WE'RE REALLY SCARED,
"THERE ARE MICROPHONES EVERYWHERE,"
AND HE FELT SORRY FOR ME, BECAUSE I WAS A KID.
AND SO, HE DECIDED TO TAKE A MORAL DECISION...
UM, AND I'M SURE HE HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THAT.
(audience laughing) YEAH, IT WAS--
SO, THAT'S A VERY COMPLICATED RELATIONSHIP.
WHEREAS I WANT TO POINT TO YOU MY ENGLISH TEACHER--
WHEN I WENT TO ROMANIA TO LOOK AT THE FILES,
I'LL GIVE YOU A CONTRAST TO THAT EXPERIENCE.
MY ENGLISH TEACHER...
WHEN HE FOUND OUT THAT I WOULD BE THERE IN 2010,
HE MADE A CALL TO MY AUNT AND UNCLE--
SPEAKING ABOUT EXPERIENCES WE DON'T SHARE--
HE SAID, "I NEED TO SEE CARMEN...
"ALONE, BECAUSE I HAVE SOMETHING ON MY CONSCIENCE FOR 23 YEARS
"THAT I NEED TO DEAL WITH HER."
SO, I WENT AND I MET HIM WITH MY SON AND MY HUSBAND
IN THE PARK IN A CITY CENTER THERE,
AND HE SAID, "WELL, I EVEN WROTE A PLAY ABOUT THIS.
"YOU MUST READ IT."
HE SAID-- HE WROTE A PLAY ABOUT THIS, NOT ME--
HE SAID, "I WANTED TO TELL YOU
"THAT WHEN I SAW THAT YOU WERE BEING KEPT HOME
"FOR INTERROGATIONS AT THE AGE OF 12,
"AND FROM THE SCHOOL ROOM,
"WE COULD SEE THE SECRET POLICE IN THE BELL TOWER
"OF THE CHURCH CHANGING SHIFTS,
"WATCHING FROM THE BELL TOWER WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN YOUR ROOM."
HE SAID, "I SAW YOU, PARTICULARLY ONE DAY,
"COMPLETELY DOWNTRODDEN," AND MIND YOU,
I WAS STARVED FOR THREE WEEKS, HUH,
"COMPLETELY DOWNTRODDEN, COMPLETELY--" HE SAID,
"I LOOKED AT YOU ON THE STREET
"AND I DIDN'T HAVE THE COURAGE TO SAY TO YOU
"THAT YOUR FATHER WAS A GOOD MAN,
"AND I DIDN'T HAVE THE COURAGE TO SAY TO YOU
"THAT YOU'LL BE OKAY," HE SAID, "AND I'M SORRY.
"I WANT TO APOLOGIZE."
TWENTY-THREE YEARS LATER.
I MEAN, THIS IS MORE LIKE 30 YEARS LATER,
AFTER THE FACT, BECAUSE I WAS 12, YOU KNOW?
SO, THAT KIND OF COURAGE DIDN'T ALWAYS EXIST IN EVERYONE.
UM, THIS IS GOING BESIDE THE POINT THAT YOU'RE ASKING,
BUT I WANTED TO SHARE THAT STORY WITH YOU.
IT WAS EXTRAORDINARY.
I MEAN, I LOOKED AT HIM AND I SAID, "SURE, NO PROBLEM.
"I FORGIVE YOU." (audience chuckling)
HUH.
WHAT CAN I DO?
IT WAS LIKE THAT WITH EVERYONE THEN, YOU KNOW?
FUNNY THING THAT THE ROMANIAN TEACHER
WAS THE ONE WHO FED ME SANDWICHES,
UNDER THE PRETEXT THAT SHE WAS PUNISHING ME.
SHE WAS FEEDING ME-- THE ROMANIAN LANGUAGE TEACHER--
SHE WAS FEEDING ME SANDWICHES,
AND SHE WAS THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR ME LIVING,
AND ALSO BELIEVING THAT LITERATURE CAN SAVE PEOPLE.
I BELIEVE THAT LITERATURE MAY NOT BE, YOU KNOW,
NOBLE MINDED ALWAYS... (chuckling)
BUT IT'S NOBLE.
BECAUSE I THINK SOMETHING GOOD HAPPENS THERE
WHEN PEOPLE READ BOOKS.
>> WE CAN TAKE SOME MORE QUESTIONS, I THINK,
BUT I DO NEED TO GET A FEW THINGS RIGHT
BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER.
UM, THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE MY STUDENTS,
BE SURE TO SIGN IN BEFORE YOU LEAVE.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE SIGN-IN SHEET IS.
OKAY, SO THAT'S BEFORE YOU LEAVE.
ALSO, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT CARMEN'S BOOK IS AVAILABLE IN THE BACK.
SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY ASKED ME.
IT'S AVAILABLE FOR $16.
THEY WANT CHECK, CASH, OR CREDIT CARD.
SO, SEE HIM BACK THERE,
AND HE'LL TALK TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO GO THAT ROUTE.
OTHER THAN THAT, ANYBODY ELSE?
>> YEAH, PLEASE.
THERE IS ANOTHER ONE-- YEAH?
I JUST ANSWER IT LIKE THIS?
OR I JUST WAIT FOR PEOPLE-- YEAH.
>> CARMEN, WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT YOU WANTED
TO BE A PROFESSIONAL WRITER?
WHEN WAS THAT MOMENT THAT IT JUST REALLY SPARKED?
>> AH, YES, AND I DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT.
IT'S A WHOLE STORY OF THE POEM OF THE DIVORCE.
NOW, THAT'S A GOOD STORY.
SO, UM, I STARTED WRITING POETRY WHEN I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD,
JUST TO PLEASE MY MOM.
YOU KNOW, THIS WAS WHAT EVERYBODY DID,
AND KIDS MADE UP LITTLE RHYMES,
SO I WAS JUST MAKING LITTLE RHYMES AROUND.
AND SHE USED TO SAY, "FIND ME A RHYME FOR THIS,
"FIND ME A RHYME FOR THAT."
BUT THEN, SOMETHING HAPPENED.
AFTER MY FATHER WAS IMPRISONED...
I DON'T KNOW HOW-- INSIDE OF ME, HOW IT HAPPENED,
BUT I WOULD LOOK AT THE PHOTOS OF HIM ON THE WALL,
AND ONE TIME IN PARTICULAR, I TOOK ONE OF HIS PHOTOS
FROM THE WALL,
I BROUGHT IT AND I SAT DOWN ON THE CEMENT IN OUR COURTYARD--
YOU KNOW, IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE,
AND I WROTE A POEM TO MY FATHER.
BECAUSE WE HAD THE MICROPHONES IN THE HOUSE,
WE COULDN'T READ IT ALOUD.
SO, I WROTE IT AND I PASSED IT--
I PASSED THE POEM AROUND TO MY MOM AND MY SISTER,
WHO SAID, "THIS IS YOUR FATHER.
"YOU'RE BRINGING ALIVE.
"HE IS BACK WITH US.
"YOU'RE DOING IT."
AND THAT WAS WHEN I KNEW THAT MY JOB IS TO BE A WRITER...
BECAUSE WHAT I WAS DOING THERE WAS IN THE SILENCE
THAT WE WERE EXPERIENCING,
I FOUND A WAY TO ARTICULATE FAMILY SUFFERING
AND ALSO HEAL IT AT THE SAME TIME.
ARTICULATION AND HEALING--
AND THAT'S WHAT WRITING HAS BEEN MEANING--
THE MEANING OF WRITING TO ME FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE,
AND I DISCOVERED IT THERE.
AND THEN, THE SIGNIFICANT MOMENT
THAT HAPPENED EVEN MORE WAS THE DIVORCE.
WHEN WE CAME AFTER THE FIRST DIVORCE FROM THE COURT,
FROM THE COURTHOUSE,
MY MOTHER WANTED TO CLEAN THE KITCHEN WINDOWS
WITH THE NEWSPAPERS.
AND SO, SHE SAID, "YOU GO AND CLEAN THE PORCH WINDOWS,"
SO SHE GAVE ME-- BECAUSE IN ROMANIA,
YOU CAN ONLY DO WITH THE NEWSPAPERS.
YOU KIND OF WENT LIKE-- (blowing air)--
ON A WINDOW AND YOU...
THEY WERE QUITE DUSTY AND STUFF.
SO, I WENT ON A WINDOW LIKE THIS--
(blowing air) AND I WROTE, "DAD,"
WITH MY FINGER ON IT...
AND THEN, I STARTED WRITING THE POEM,
BECAUSE I KNEW I COULDN'T TALK ALOUD.
WE HAD JUST HAD THE MOST HORRIFYING EXPERIENCE
OF OUR LIVES, OKAY?
IT TOOK THREE POLICEMEN TO UN-STICK ME FROM MY FATHER.
I DIDN'T WANT TO LET GO.
AND MY FATHER STILL REMEMBERS TO THIS DAY
THAT HE CARESSED HIS YOUNG SON WITH HIS CHAINS--
THIS IS WHAT HE WILL TELL YOU
IF HE WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF ME.
AND I HAD TO LET IT OUT.
SO, THERE WAS GOING-- AND THEN, MY MOTHER CAME TO ME
AND SHE SAID, "HERE'S A PENCIL AND A PIECE OF PAPER,"
AND I WROTE THE POEM OF THE DIVORCE,
WHICH IS IN YOUR BOOK, WHICH IS IN THIS BOOK HERE.
AND THERE, THE VOICE OF A CHILD
IS SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO THE FATHER.
THAT POEM HAS BEEN CONFISCATED WITH THE MANUSCRIPT.
THAT POEM WAS REMEMBERED BY MY SISTER AND MY MOTHER
WHEN WE CAME HERE,
AND I TRANSLATED A LITTLE BIT INTO ENGLISH WHEN I FIRST CAME.
AND THEN, WHEN I STARTED DREAMING IN ENGLISH,
I WROTE IT STRAIGHT INTO ENGLISH IN DAVID'S CLASS.
IT WAS AN OATH OF LOVE.
THEN, IT WENT BACK TO THE DIVORCE,
AND MORE THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THEN, FINALLY,
IT HAS MADE IT TO THE FINAL FORM IN CRO--
IN THIS BOOK, "CROSSING THE CARPATHIANS,"
TO THE FORM THAT YOU HAVE IT.
AND THERE, IT'S ART.
THERE IS THE ARTIST COMING VERY STRONGLY.
I'M CHANGING PERSPECTIVE.
AT ONE POINT, I'M TALKING DIRECTLY IN THE POEM, AS ME.
AT THE OTHER POINT, I'M SAYING, "HIS CHILDREN
"WERE BREATHING AGAINST THE WALL."
I'M SHIFTING PERSPECTIVES FROM THE FIRST TO THE THIRD PERSON,
JUST SO I GIVE YOU THE BIGGER IMAGE, YOU KNOW?
SO, IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE TIME AND THE LANGUAGE,
THE LINGUISTIC DISTANCE,
HAVE BEEN AFFORDING THIS SPACE IN WHICH I CAN, AGAIN,
TO TURN THE MESS OF LIFE INTO ART.
SO-- AND THEN, SO OF COURSE, YEAH, THAT WAS A LONG STORY,
BUT THAT WAS HOW I KNEW.
AND FOR ME, IT'S A PROFESSION, YOU KNOW?
I WRITE A POEM, MY FAMILY READS IT, AND YOU KNOW,
IT'S LIKE THIS.
I SEEM TO SPEAK FOR EVERYONE IN MY FAMILY, YOU KNOW?
(laughing) >> THANK YOU FOR SHARING.
>> ANYBODY ELSE?
>> HELLO.
I'M SURE WHEN YOU FIRST--
YOU WERE ABOUT 19 WHEN YOU MOVED HERE, CORRECT?
OVER-- WHEN YOU WERE 19?
AND SO, YOU WERE A TEENAGER AT THAT TIME.
WHAT TYPE OF CULTURE SHOCK DID YOU EXPERIENCE
COMING INTO THE AMERICAN SCHOOL SYSTEMS?
WITH US AS TEENAGERS, GROWING UP VERY FREE SPIRITED,
SAYING WHAT'S ON OUR MIND, VERY LITTLE INHIBITIONS,
IN CONTRAST TO WHAT YOU WERE USED TO FROM YOUR COUNTRY.
>> WELL, ON A SERIOUS NOTE,
IT WAS REALLY BEING FREE TO SPEAK
AND LETTING GO AND TRUSTING PEOPLE.
THAT ACT OF TRUST THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT,
AT THE AIRPORT WAS A VERY BIG ONE.
BUT THE HILARIOUS STUFF--
OH, ONLY THE PEOPLE FROM CHURCH
CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THE HILARIOUS STUFF.
I MEAN, YOU GUYS TOOK US IN A VAN FOR THE FIRST TIME
TO MEIJER'S...
AND WE SAW THE MOUNTAIN OF APPLES THERE.
(audience chuckling) WE WALKED INTO MEIJER'S,
AND THOSE DOUBLE DOORS OPEN UP ALL BY THEMSELVES!
I MEAN, WOW!
(audience laughing) ALL BY THEMSELVES!
AND THEN, WE SAW ALL THE GREEN APPLES AND ALL THE RED APPLES,
AND MY FATHER SAID, "OH, THEY BROUGHT ALL THE APPLES
"FROM AMERICA HERE BECAUSE WE'RE HERE."
(audience laughing) WE ARE SHOCKED.
IT WAS AMAZING.
AND THEN, YOU TOOK US-- I REMEMBER VERY WELL,
BECAUSE YOU ALSO TOOK US IN A VAN-- TO SEE A MALL,
TO SEE THE T.V.s.
AND WE SAW OURSELVES ON THOSE CAMERAS ON THE T.V.s,
SO WE WERE GOING LIKE THIS, LOOKING AT OURSELVES.
THE ABUNDANCE WAS INCREDIBLE.
THE OTHER THING THAT WE DID-- TALK ABOUT CULTURE SHOCK--
THE CONSUMERISM, THE MATERIALNESS.
WE ARE TAKING NOTES ON ALL THE T.V. COMMERCIALS.
THE PEOPLE FROM THE CHURCH DONATED A T.V. TO US.
YOU KNOW, A NICE T.V.
SO, WE SAT IN THE LIVING ROOM TAKING NOTES TO BUY EVERYTHING
THAT WAS IN THE T.V. COMMERCIAL.
(audience laughing) AND I THINK AT SOME POINT,
SOMEBODY FELT SORRY FOR US AND SAID,
"YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE NOTES ON THIS.
"YOU'LL FIND THEM IN THE STORE.
"IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE IMPORTANT."
BUT WE THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE IMPORTANT.
BUT THAT WAS-- IT WAS INCREDIBLE, YOU KNOW?
AND THEN, MY FATHER-- I EXPLAIN THIS TO MY MOTHER-IN-LAW
AND TO MY HUSBAND IS--
YOU KNOW, WONDERFUL THINGS MY FATHER USED TO DO.
OTHER THAN ALSO GOING ON A MOTORWAY ON A HIGHWAYS
ON THE EXIT LINE, AND FREAKING EVERYBODY OUT.
I MEAN, THAT WAS-- BUT WHAT WE USED TO DO,
WE USED TO DRIVE AROUND THE BANKS--
DRIVE-THROUGH BANKING...
AW, THAT WAS SO MUCH FUN!
MY DAD AND I DID THAT SO MANY TIMES.
WE USED TO GO AROUND TO OUR BANKS AND CHECK OUR ACCOUNTS
AND GET THE MONEY OUT OF THE BANK,
JUST TO SEE IT GO-- PFFF!
WITH THE THING.
AND THEN, WE USED TO WRITE LETTERS TO EVERYBODY IN ROMANIA,
YOU KNOW, SAYING, "WOW, THESE PEOPLE HAVE MONEY
"COMING OUT OF THE WALLS!
(audience laughing) "THIS IS AMAZING!
"THIS IS THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
"I MEAN, WE ARE--" IT WAS HILARIOUS.
I MEAN, THE KINDA-- AND THEN I WAS--
I MEAN, I WAS IN YOUR CLASS,
I WAS ASKING SOME QUITE SHOCKING QUESTIONS IN YOUR CLASS, I REMEMBER.
I MEAN, HOW THINGS ARE AND WHY THINGS ARE THIS WAY.
SO, YEAH, CULTURAL SHOCK BIG-TIME.
>> (indistinct speaking).
>> YEAH.
>> (indistinct speaking).
>> YEAH, YEAH, AFTER THE YEAR IN IRELAND,
COMING BACK HERE WAS A COMPLETE SHOCK AGAIN BECAUSE PEOPLE HERE,
YOU KNOW, DRIVING VERY FAST, GOING VERY FAST,
TRYING TO BUY EVERYTHING,
AND THE DEFINITION OF SELF-WORTH
IS VERY CLOSELY RELATED TO WHAT YOU OWN, YOU KNOW?
SO, AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO TEACH MY SON THIS.
MY HUSBAND AND I-- I MEAN, MY SON--
MY HUSBAND IS A SCIENTIST, AND I'M A POET,
SO YOU CAN IMAGINE OUR INCOME IS NOT VERY HIGH.
(audience chuckling) BUT WE'RE VERY HAPPY
AND WE'RE TRYING TO TEACH MY SON THAT HE'S VERY RICH IN THE LOVE
THAT WE HAVE IN THE FAMILY, THAT HE HAS A SISTER WITH HIM,
BECAUSE THERE WHERE WE LIVE, IN GENEVA,
ALL OF HIS FRIENDS ONLY GO TO BIRTHDAY PARTIES,
THEY HAVE TWO INCOMES FROM C.E.R.N., AND SO THEY HAVE
PROPER VILLAS WITH EVERYTHING.
AND SO, MY SON KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE--
YOU KNOW, "MOMMY, BUT WE'RE NOT RICH WITH MONEY," HE SAYS.
I'M LIKE, "BOY, YOU'RE A BIT TOO YOUNG FOR THAT."
BUT THERE YOU GO.
YOU KNOW, WE LIVE IN A WESTERN WORLD
WHERE THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW?
AND SO, WE ARE VERY MUCH-- I THINK MY SISTER AND MY BROTHER
HAVE BECOME MUCH MORE AMERICAN THAN ME.
HAVING RETURNED TO EUROPE, I HAVE--
I RETURNED TO SMALLER COMMUNITIES,
YOU KNOW, "LIVE FOR LESS," TALK MORE--
YOU KNOW, STUFF LIKE THIS.
WHEREAS THEY HAVE BEEN HARD-WORKING,
TRYING TO ACCUMULATE.
MY SISTER HAS A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE IN ANN ARBOR,
AND WE ALL FEEL LIKE WE'RE GOING IN A CASTLE WHEN WE VISIT HER.
SO-- BUT THAT WAS QUITE SHOCKING--
AGAIN, YOU KNOW, COMING BACK.
AND EVERY TIME I COME FROM EUROPE HERE,
I MUST ADMIT SOMETHING ALSO--
I SHOULDN'T ADMIT THIS IN PUBLIC
BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE COME HERE,
WE ALSO DO SHOPPING FOR OUR KIDS, YOU KNOW?
WE GO TO THE MALLS AND WE BUY THE CLOTHES THAT--
BECAUSE THINGS ARE SO EXPENSIVE IN EUROPE,
WE CAN'T REALLY AFFORD TO BUY THEM.
SO, WE GO AND READ BUY, YOU KNOW,
A SET OF CLOTHES FOR THE NEXT SEASON FOR OUR CHILDREN.
BECAUSE HERE, PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO HAVE,
AND PEOPLE-- IT'S REALLY THAT KIND OF CULTURE YOU HAVE.
SURE.
>> (indistinct speaking).
>> PICKLED TOMATOES, PICKLED MELON, CUCUMBERS,
LEARN HOW TO TAKE THE EGGS FROM THE HENS' BUTTS...
(audience chuckling) YOU KNOW, TO COLLECT THE EGGS.
MILKING THE COW WITH TWO FINGERS,
WITH A FULL HAND.
DAILY CHORES.
FEEDING THE PIGEONS AND FEEDING THE CHICKENS IN THE YARD
WITH MY GRANDMOTHER.
LEARNING WHEN NOT TO ANNOY THE TURKEY
AND WHEN NOT TO ANNOY THE COW.
UM...
EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH MAKING STUFF YOURSELF
TO DO THIS-- ALL OF THE PRACTICAL STUFF.
ALL OF THE VERY, VERY PRACTICAL STUFF.
ONE THING THAT I HAD TO LEARN QUITE YOUNG
WAS TO TAKE WATER FROM THE WELL.
IT WAS A DANGEROUS JOB, BECAUSE YOU HAD TO--
IT HAD THE CHAIN, SO IF YOU'RE NOT CAREFUL,
WHEN THE CHAIN GOES DOWN... YOU CAN GO WITH IT.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
AND YOU CAN FOLLOW INTO THE WELL,
AND THERE'S MANY ACCIDENTS LIKE THIS.
SO, ESPECIALLY, YOU HAVE TO STEP ON A STONE STEP.
SO, I HAD TO LEARN HOW TO TAKE WATER FROM THE WELL,
NOT TO HURT MY HANDS, AND STUFF LIKE THIS.
SHOVELING SNOW...
OH, AND MAKING JAMS IN THE YARD.
ME LEARNING HOW TO STIR THE BIG POT OF PLUM JAM.
THERE ARE ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO
EVERYTHING THE RIGHT WAY,
AND EVERYTHING-- AND MY-- I THINK MY GRANDMA TRIED,
BUT SHE WASN'T SUCCESSFUL AT TEACHING ME HOW TO DO
THE SPINNING OF THE WOOL.
TO MAKE FROM THE WOOL, YOU KNOW--
YOU WASH IT, YOU DRY IT, AND YOU MAKE FROM THE WOOL--
YOU MAKE THE THREADS THAT YOU LATER--
AND I NEVER LEARNED THE KNITTING AND STUFF LIKE THIS.
MY SISTER DID.
SHE JUST NEEDED CLOTHES FOR HER DAUGHTERS,
BECAUSE OUT OF THE MEMORY.
BUT YEAH, YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO DO THE KNITTING, SEWING,
MAKING YOUR OWN BED LINENS--
THAT WAS SOMETHING WE HAD TO DO-- BED LINENS, TABLE CLOTHS.
THIS WAS ALL DONE IN THE FAMILY.
IT'S NOT LIKE YOU GO TO THE STORE TO DO THAT.
AND ALSO, A VERY IMPORTANT SKILL FOR A GIRL IN PARTICULAR
TO DO IS MAKING YOUR OWN CLOTHES.
SEAMSTRESSES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.
AND SO-- AND MY MOTHER WAS QUITE A GOOD SEAMSTRESS.
YOU'D JUST GO AND PICK YOUR MATERIALS
AND SHE MADE OUR CLOTHES,
AND THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THING TO DO.
>> I THINK WHAT WE COULD DO
IS IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE FOR A LITTLE BIT--