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If the desire of being recognized by your equals, being admired by them,
if this desire today goes through the stage, does it mean
there is a lack of principle, a primary lack of recognition
that we can call, Jean-Pierre and I, symbolic
and which causes, today, this lack of symbolic recognition,
the absence of a father that says "my son, I recognize you and you are accepted here".
And, well, today, this lack of recognition, would that explain
why the young enter like this in theatrical and cinematographic attempts?
Yes, I think it's possible that this is one of the reasons.
A consequence, in my opinion an important one, is that you shouldn't,
I would say, mistake this demonstration,
which presents a true work of representation,
since these demonstrations are most frequently imaginary
and don't really, in spite of it all, register anything.
So, there's this distinction to be done,
and, at the same time, we can't discredit it,
because it still is maybe one of the ways through which
some people try to find a way out,
this lack of symbolic orientation you said...
So, I think it really shows it's not about... that it's what constantly goes on,
that's how it happens, but it doesn't mean that...
The issue is knowing how to find a way in this subject.
But I believe it's true, that it's something
of the functioning in which there's no more an instance that recognizes the subject
in the dimension fundamentally missing
and it makes the subject find themselves in the obligation of seeking,
in a sometimes lost course in which, besides all that, they don't really know what they are looking for.
This recognition is not mentioned.
But since yourself, Jean-Pierre, is involved in a theatrical activity,
which you have organized with this excellent philosopher Dany Robert Dufour,
a very successful show that will be performed in Paris next month.
Sorry, can you repeat the name of the show?
- Dany, the name of the show? - It's "Bleib". It means "lay down"
it's like you say to a dog, in German, "stay!", "bleib!"
Today, that's what is said to everyone, so, the dog understands it well, and so do us.
So, the question is, and I take this opportunity to ask it:
Doesn't it seem that going through the stage would paradoxically
be a way for the young to access the dimension of representation...
Yes!
...as if they left a world too real compared to the representative one?
Presentation of themselves, presentation of objects,
presentation of the circumstances of their lives, and that it would be on stage, paradoxically,
that they could enter another register, the representation one?
Yes, it is possible it works like this, in fact it was what I said.
There's a primary dimension of demonstration, which I think is present,
but it can also be the first step of the path to getting access to representation.
I mean, in the old days, they would denounce theater,
they repressed it as a fallacious representation of life
and, today, the stage would be the occasion to really enter
this fiction that life is. Would that be correct to you?
I completely agree with you, I think that's true. That's sort of what may happen.