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>>> LET'S LISTEN IN AS ED VISIT WITH ROBERT WILSON, WORLD WAR I
WITH ROBERT WILSON, WORLD WAR I B-17 RADAR NAVIGATOR.
B-17 RADAR NAVIGATOR. >>BOB, I'D LIKE TO TALK A LITTL
>>BOB, I'D LIKE TO TALK A LITTL BIT ABOUT YOUR EPISODES
BIT ABOUT YOUR EPISODES INVOLVING WORLD WAR II IN
INVOLVING WORLD WAR II IN GENERAL, THE B-17 SPECIFICALLY.
GENERAL, THE B-17 SPECIFICALLY. >>I WENT FOR PILOT TRAINING.
>>I WENT FOR PILOT TRAINING. I DIDN'T EVEN GET TO SOLO.
I DIDN'T EVEN GET TO SOLO. SO I WASHED OUT VERY QUICKLY.
SO I WASHED OUT VERY QUICKLY. BUT THE NEXT DAY I WAS ON MY WA
BUT THE NEXT DAY I WAS ON MY WA TO NAVIGATION SCHOOL.
TO NAVIGATION SCHOOL. WHICH WAS ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT
WHICH WAS ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS AND TRAINED AS A
MONTHS AND TRAINED AS A NAVIGATOR USING VARIOUS KINDS O
NAVIGATOR USING VARIOUS KINDS O NAVIGATION, DEAD RECKONING,
NAVIGATION, DEAD RECKONING, CELESTIAL, AND BECAME A
CELESTIAL, AND BECAME A NAVIGATOR.
NAVIGATOR. >>YOU WERE NOT 19 BY THEN?
>>YOU WERE NOT 19 BY THEN? >> I WAS -- THAT WAS AT MY 19TH
>> I WAS -- THAT WAS AT MY 19TH BIRTHDAY AFTER I FINISHED THAT.
BIRTHDAY AFTER I FINISHED THAT. >>BUT YOU ENTERED --
>>BUT YOU ENTERED -- >>OH, YEAH, ENTERED.
>>OH, YEAH, ENTERED. >>BEFORE YOU WERE 19.
>>BEFORE YOU WERE 19. >>OH, YES.
>>OH, YES. AND I WAS A SECOND LIEUTENANT
AND I WAS A SECOND LIEUTENANT BEFORE MY 19TH BIRTHDAY.
BEFORE MY 19TH BIRTHDAY. >>GETTING TO THE B-17, AND I
>>GETTING TO THE B-17, AND I HAVE A MODEL OF IT RIGHT HERE.
HAVE A MODEL OF IT RIGHT HERE. WHY DON'T YOU POINT SOME THINGS
WHY DON'T YOU POINT SOME THINGS OUT FOR ME, BOB.
OUT FOR ME, BOB. IF YOU CAN TELL ME WHERE -- NOW
IF YOU CAN TELL ME WHERE -- NOW REMEMBER, THIS WAS ONLY 7 # FOO
REMEMBER, THIS WAS ONLY 7 # FOO IN LENGTH.
IN LENGTH. 74 FEET.
74 FEET. I MEAN YOU COULD PUT, FOR
I MEAN YOU COULD PUT, FOR EXAMPLE, A SERIES OF SIX FOOTE
EXAMPLE, A SERIES OF SIX FOOTE FOOTERS, MAYBE 12, SIX FOOT MEN
FOOTERS, MAYBE 12, SIX FOOT MEN LAID END TO END, AND THAT WOULD
LAID END TO END, AND THAT WOULD BE THE LENGTH OF THIS PLANE.
BE THE LENGTH OF THIS PLANE. IT APPEARS TO BE MUCH LARGER.
IT APPEARS TO BE MUCH LARGER. BUT IT IS NOT.
BUT IT IS NOT. WHERE WAS BOB WILSON IN THIS
WHERE WAS BOB WILSON IN THIS PLANE?
PLANE? >> WELL, WHEN I WAS A NAVIGATOR
>> WELL, WHEN I WAS A NAVIGATOR AND WAS DOING CREW TRAINING AS
AND WAS DOING CREW TRAINING AS NAVIGATOR, I SAT UP HERE.
NAVIGATOR, I SAT UP HERE. ALSO, UP THERE IN FRONT OF THE
ALSO, UP THERE IN FRONT OF THE PILOT AND THE COPILOT WAS THE
PILOT AND THE COPILOT WAS THE BOMBADEERS POSITION WHO USED A
BOMBADEERS POSITION WHO USED A BOMBSIGHT WHICH WAS A VERY
BOMBSIGHT WHICH WAS A VERY FAMOUS DESIGN WHICH THEY BRAGGE
FAMOUS DESIGN WHICH THEY BRAGGE ABOUT GREATLY.
ABOUT GREATLY. SO THERE IS FOUR OFFICERS UP IN
SO THERE IS FOUR OFFICERS UP IN THIS SECTION, ENGINEER WHO
THIS SECTION, ENGINEER WHO MAINTAINS THE POWER OF THE
MAINTAINS THE POWER OF THE ENGINES IS OPERATING ALSO THIS
ENGINES IS OPERATING ALSO THIS TURRETTE HERE.
TURRETTE HERE. THE RADIO OPERATOR SITS BACK
THE RADIO OPERATOR SITS BACK HERE.
HERE. LATER IN MY CAREER, I OPERATED
LATER IN MY CAREER, I OPERATED RADAR SET WHICH WAS OPPOSITE TH
RADAR SET WHICH WAS OPPOSITE TH RADIO MAN.
RADIO MAN. THERE IS A BALL TURRET UNDER
THERE IS A BALL TURRET UNDER HERE, BUT IN MY SPECIAL AIRCRA
HERE, BUT IN MY SPECIAL AIRCRA AIRCRAFT, THE BALL TURRET WAS
AIRCRAFT, THE BALL TURRET WAS REPLACED WITH A -- PART OF MY
REPLACED WITH A -- PART OF MY RADAR EQUIPMENT WHICH WAS THE
RADAR EQUIPMENT WHICH WAS THE DOME, THE DOME -- THE
DOME, THE DOME -- THE TRANSMITTER, AND THE RECEIVER
TRANSMITTER, AND THE RECEIVER FOR THE RADAR SIGNALS WHICH WER
FOR THE RADAR SIGNALS WHICH WER SENT OUT, AND THE SIGNALS WHICH
SENT OUT, AND THE SIGNALS WHICH WERE SEPTEMBER OUT COULD PROVID
WERE SEPTEMBER OUT COULD PROVID A MAP.
A MAP. SO WHAT I DID WAS INTERPRET OS
SO WHAT I DID WAS INTERPRET OS OSCILISCOPE THIS LOCATION, SUCH
OSCILISCOPE THIS LOCATION, SUCH AS TO READ A MAP.
AS TO READ A MAP. >>GETTING BACK TO THIS DESIGN,
>>GETTING BACK TO THIS DESIGN, WANT UNDERSTAND THERE WERE TEN
WANT UNDERSTAND THERE WERE TEN CREW MEMBERS.
CREW MEMBERS. AVERAGE AGE WAS WHAT, IF YOU
AVERAGE AGE WAS WHAT, IF YOU RECALL, BOB?
RECALL, BOB? >> THEY WERE ALMOST ALL A LITTL
>> THEY WERE ALMOST ALL A LITTL BIT OLDER THAN ME, BUT NOT MUC
BIT OLDER THAN ME, BUT NOT MUC MUCH,.
MUCH,. >>MAYBE 20 --
>>MAYBE 20 -- >>OLD ONE WOULD BE 25.
>>OLD ONE WOULD BE 25. >>THAT'S AN OLD GUY?
>>THAT'S AN OLD GUY? >> YES.
>> YES. >>SO, ALSO THE NORDEN BOMBSIGHT.
>>SO, ALSO THE NORDEN BOMBSIGHT. ONE OF THE DEFICIENCIES WAS THE
ONE OF THE DEFICIENCIES WAS THE ABILITY TO PENETRATE, FOR
ABILITY TO PENETRATE, FOR EXAMPLE, OVERCAST SKIES, CLOUDS
EXAMPLE, OVERCAST SKIES, CLOUDS AND IN PARTICULAR SOME OIL POTS
AND IN PARTICULAR SOME OIL POTS THAT THE GERMANS HAD CONSTRUCTE
THAT THE GERMANS HAD CONSTRUCTE AROUND THE ELEMENT DESTINATION
AROUND THE ELEMENT DESTINATION FOR BOMBING, IS THAT RIGHT?
FOR BOMBING, IS THAT RIGHT? >> YES.
>> YES. AND THERE WOULD BE HUNDREDS OF
AND THERE WOULD BE HUNDREDS OF THOSE POTS.
THOSE POTS. AND SO AS A RESULT, THIS WAS A
AND SO AS A RESULT, THIS WAS A GREAT OBSTACLE TO THE
GREAT OBSTACLE TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE STRATEGIC
EFFECTIVENESS OF THE STRATEGIC BOMBING BECAUSE THE U.S -- THE
BOMBING BECAUSE THE U.S -- THE PATTERN WAS NOT -- HAD STRATEGI
PATTERN WAS NOT -- HAD STRATEGI TARGETS.
TARGETS. SOME OF THE TARGETS WERE VARIED
SOME OF THE TARGETS WERE VARIED OVER TIME, RAILROADS, AND
OVER TIME, RAILROADS, AND AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING COMPANI
AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING COMPANI COMPANIES, BUT FINALLY OIL.
COMPANIES, BUT FINALLY OIL. >> THE BIG DEAL WAS OIL, IN
>> THE BIG DEAL WAS OIL, IN ROMANIA.
ROMANIA. >>BUT THAT EVOLVED AS THE WAR
>>BUT THAT EVOLVED AS THE WAR WENT ON.
WENT ON. WHEN THE WAR STARTED, THERE WER
WHEN THE WAR STARTED, THERE WER ALMOST -- THERE WERE ZERO
ALMOST -- THERE WERE ZERO AIRPLANES LIKE I FLEW IN.
AIRPLANES LIKE I FLEW IN. ZERO.
ZERO. EVERYTHING WAS BEING RELIED UPO
EVERYTHING WAS BEING RELIED UPO THE NORDEN BOMBSIGHT TO SEE THE
THE NORDEN BOMBSIGHT TO SEE THE TARGETS AND TO SUCCESSFULLY DRO
TARGETS AND TO SUCCESSFULLY DRO THE BOMBS WHICH IT COULD DO IF
THE BOMBS WHICH IT COULD DO IF IT COULD SEE THE TARGET.
IT COULD SEE THE TARGET. >>YES.
>>YES. GETTING BACK TO THIS.
GETTING BACK TO THIS. ALL OF A SUDDEN WE NOW HAVE
ALL OF A SUDDEN WE NOW HAVE THESE B-17'S.
THESE B-17'S. ALMOST 1600 OF THESE PLANES
ALMOST 1600 OF THESE PLANES MANUFACTURED.
MANUFACTURED. THE SPEED WAS NEARLY 300 MILES
THE SPEED WAS NEARLY 300 MILES AN HOUR, AND IT WAS COLD UP
AN HOUR, AND IT WAS COLD UP THERE, IS THAT CORRECT?
THERE, IS THAT CORRECT? >> OH, YES.
>> OH, YES. IT WAS -- WHEN WE WOULD FLY AT
IT WAS -- WHEN WE WOULD FLY AT 50,000 FEET, THE TEMPERATURES
50,000 FEET, THE TEMPERATURES WAS USUALLY ABOUT 50 BELOW ZERO.
WAS USUALLY ABOUT 50 BELOW ZERO. THERE WAS NO HEAT.
THERE WAS NO HEAT. THE PLANE WAS NOT PRESSURIZED,
THE PLANE WAS NOT PRESSURIZED, AND THE ALTITUDES YOU WERE
AND THE ALTITUDES YOU WERE FLYING AT WAS USUALLY OVER ENEM
FLYING AT WAS USUALLY OVER ENEM TERRITORY 25,000 FEET OR HIGHER.
TERRITORY 25,000 FEET OR HIGHER. SO YOU HAD TO HAVE OXYGEN SYST
SO YOU HAD TO HAVE OXYGEN SYST SYSTEMS.
SYSTEMS. YOU HAD TO BE ON OXYGEN
YOU HAD TO BE ON OXYGEN VIRTUALLY ALL THE TIME, SUPER
VIRTUALLY ALL THE TIME, SUPER COLD.
COLD. THE FLIGHTS WOULD LAST FROM SIX
THE FLIGHTS WOULD LAST FROM SIX TO EIGHT HOURS USUALLY IF YOU
TO EIGHT HOURS USUALLY IF YOU ARE GOING LONG DISTANCES.
ARE GOING LONG DISTANCES. SO IT WAS REALLY PRETTY U
SO IT WAS REALLY PRETTY U UNPLEASANT.
UNPLEASANT. BUT YOU MORE OR LESS GOT USED T
BUT YOU MORE OR LESS GOT USED T IT.
IT. >>ABOUT A THIRD OF THE B-17S
>>ABOUT A THIRD OF THE B-17S WENT DOWN, ABOUT A THIRD, AND
WENT DOWN, ABOUT A THIRD, AND THE FATALITIES WERE 1,757
THE FATALITIES WERE 1,757 FATALITIES.
FATALITIES. SO THIS WAS A DANGEROUS -- BUT
SO THIS WAS A DANGEROUS -- BUT YOU WERE FLYING AS THE -- IN TH
YOU WERE FLYING AS THE -- IN TH LEAD PLANE BECAUSE OF THE RADAR
LEAD PLANE BECAUSE OF THE RADAR EQUIPMENT THAT YOU WERE TRAINED
EQUIPMENT THAT YOU WERE TRAINED IN.
IN. >>YES.
>>YES. >>I WANT TO MAKE SURE I
>>I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS.
UNDERSTAND THIS. AS YOU WERE APPROACHING YOUR
AS YOU WERE APPROACHING YOUR TARGET, YOU -- LET'S ASSUME
TARGET, YOU -- LET'S ASSUME THERE WAS SMOKE OR WHATEVER, AN
THERE WAS SMOKE OR WHATEVER, AN THE NORDEN SYSTEM BOMBSIGHT
THE NORDEN SYSTEM BOMBSIGHT WOULDN'T WORK. YOU ARE THEN
WOULDN'T WORK. YOU ARE THEN DETERMINING WHEN THE BOMB SHOUL
DETERMINING WHEN THE BOMB SHOUL BE DROPPED, AND THE REST OF THE
BE DROPPED, AND THE REST OF THE CARAVAN, I WILL CALL IT OR
CARAVAN, I WILL CALL IT OR CONVOY WOULD LIKEWISE DROP THEI
CONVOY WOULD LIKEWISE DROP THEI LOAD, IS THAT RIGHT, BOB?
LOAD, IS THAT RIGHT, BOB? >> YES, EXCEPT THAT WE USUALLY
>> YES, EXCEPT THAT WE USUALLY HAD THE GROUP BOMBBADEER WITH
HAD THE GROUP BOMBBADEER WITH US, AND HE WOULD USE THE
US, AND HE WOULD USE THE BOMBSIGHT.
BOMBSIGHT. FOR INSTANCE, THERE MIGHT BE A
FOR INSTANCE, THERE MIGHT BE A SITUATION WHERE THE TARGET WOUL
SITUATION WHERE THE TARGET WOUL OPEN UP AT THE LAST MINUTE.
OPEN UP AT THE LAST MINUTE. >>BUT THERE MIGHT NOT BE.
>>BUT THERE MIGHT NOT BE. >>THERE MIGHT NOT BE, AND
>>THERE MIGHT NOT BE, AND USUALLY THERE WASN'T.
USUALLY THERE WASN'T. BUT THE MECHANISM OF THE RADAR
BUT THE MECHANISM OF THE RADAR WAS THAT I COULD INTERPRET THE
WAS THAT I COULD INTERPRET THE TARGET ZONE AFTER IT HAD BEEN
TARGET ZONE AFTER IT HAD BEEN SURVEYED BY INTELLIGENCE.
SURVEYED BY INTELLIGENCE. SO THEY WOULD FLY OVER AT NIGHT
SO THEY WOULD FLY OVER AT NIGHT A FIGHTER PLANE WITH EQUIPMENT
A FIGHTER PLANE WITH EQUIPMENT ON IT, VERY IDENTICAL TO WHAT I
ON IT, VERY IDENTICAL TO WHAT I HAD, AND THEN PHOTOGRAPH THE
HAD, AND THEN PHOTOGRAPH THE IMAGE ON THE SCREEN.
IMAGE ON THE SCREEN. THEY WOULD COME BACK, AND
THEY WOULD COME BACK, AND INTELLIGENCE EXPERTS WOULD
INTELLIGENCE EXPERTS WOULD IDENTIFY THE PARTICULAR PART OF
IDENTIFY THE PARTICULAR PART OF THIS BLOB LOOKING STRUCTURE, TH
THIS BLOB LOOKING STRUCTURE, TH IMPORTANT PART, THE TARGET PART.
IMPORTANT PART, THE TARGET PART. SO THE DAY BEFORE THE MISSIONS,
SO THE DAY BEFORE THE MISSIONS, THERE WOULD BE ABOUT FIVE OR SI
THERE WOULD BE ABOUT FIVE OR SI OF US GO TO AIR FORCE
OF US GO TO AIR FORCE HEADQUARTERS, FIVE OR SIX RADAR
HEADQUARTERS, FIVE OR SIX RADAR PLANES, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO
PLANES, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO STUDY THE TARGET AND BE BRIEFED
STUDY THE TARGET AND BE BRIEFED BY THE INTELLIGENCE SO WE COULD
BY THE INTELLIGENCE SO WE COULD INTERPRET OUR RADAR SCOPES TO
INTERPRET OUR RADAR SCOPES TO PICK THE TARGET OUT OF THAT.
PICK THE TARGET OUT OF THAT. >>IN TERMS OF THIS.
>>IN TERMS OF THIS. >>BUT THEN THE PARTICULAR, OKAY
>>BUT THEN THE PARTICULAR, OKAY SO I KNOW WHERE THE TARGET IS,
SO I KNOW WHERE THE TARGET IS, IN THIS BLOB.
IN THIS BLOB. SO I HAVE CONTROLS THAT ARE
SO I HAVE CONTROLS THAT ARE IDENTICAL TO WHAT THE BOMB BA A
IDENTICAL TO WHAT THE BOMB BA A HAS THE CONTROLS, HE HAS THE
HAS THE CONTROLS, HE HAS THE PRECISE PART OF IT. BUT I HAVE
PRECISE PART OF IT. BUT I HAVE INPUT IN WHICH I CAN IDENTIFY
INPUT IN WHICH I CAN IDENTIFY THE TARGET, WHEREAS HE CANNOT
THE TARGET, WHEREAS HE CANNOT SEE IT.
SEE IT. >>YOU WOULD TAKE OVER?
>>YOU WOULD TAKE OVER? >> I WOULD TAKE OVER, YES.
>> I WOULD TAKE OVER, YES. I WOULD.
I WOULD. >>YOU WERE FLYING.
>>YOU WERE FLYING. >>YES.
>>YES. >>I WANT TO INTERRUPT YOU.
>>I WANT TO INTERRUPT YOU. SO YOU WERE THEN FLYING THE
SO YOU WERE THEN FLYING THE PLANE?
PLANE? .
. THE PLANE WAS ON AUTOMATIC PIL
THE PLANE WAS ON AUTOMATIC PIL PILOT, AND WE ARE ON AUTOMATIC
PILOT, AND WE ARE ON AUTOMATIC PILOT FROM THE POINT -- BOMBING
PILOT FROM THE POINT -- BOMBING POINT CALLED INITIAL POINT.
POINT CALLED INITIAL POINT. AT THE INITIAL POINT, THE PILOT
AT THE INITIAL POINT, THE PILOT WOULD SIT IT ON AUTOMATIC PILOT.
WOULD SIT IT ON AUTOMATIC PILOT. HE WOULD HAVE AHEADING WHICH WE
HE WOULD HAVE AHEADING WHICH WE HAD TO GIVE HIM.
HAD TO GIVE HIM. AND THEN I IDENTIFIED THE TARG
AND THEN I IDENTIFIED THE TARG TARGET, AND I MANIPULATE THE
TARGET, AND I MANIPULATE THE SAME KNOBS, THE SAME EFFECTIVE
SAME KNOBS, THE SAME EFFECTIVE KNOBS THAT THE BOMBADEER HAS G
KNOBS THAT THE BOMBADEER HAS G GOT.
GOT. IF AT THE LAST MINUTE THAT THE
IF AT THE LAST MINUTE THAT THE TARGET WOULD HAPPEN TO OPEN UP
TARGET WOULD HAPPEN TO OPEN UP SO HE CAN DO IT VISUALLY, HE
SO HE CAN DO IT VISUALLY, HE COULD DO IT.
COULD DO IT. BUT IF IT DID NOT OPEN UP, AND
BUT IF IT DID NOT OPEN UP, AND SO IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE, I
SO IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE, I WOULD DO IT.
WOULD DO IT. >>YOU HAD 21 MISSIONS.
>>YOU HAD 21 MISSIONS. >>YEAH.
>>YEAH. >>21ST MISSION, I'D LIKE TO TAL
>>21ST MISSION, I'D LIKE TO TAL ABOUT THE 21ST MISSION, BEARING
ABOUT THE 21ST MISSION, BEARING IN MIND BECAUSE OF YOUR SKILL,
IN MIND BECAUSE OF YOUR SKILL, YOU TYPICALLY STAYED WITH THAT
YOU TYPICALLY STAYED WITH THAT PLANE WHICH WOULD BE THE LEAD
PLANE WHICH WOULD BE THE LEAD PLANE, TYPICALLY THE CREWS WOUL
PLANE, TYPICALLY THE CREWS WOUL ROTATE.
ROTATE. IDEA, NO ONE WOULD WANT TO BE I
IDEA, NO ONE WOULD WANT TO BE I THE LEAD PLANE EVERY TIME, RIG
THE LEAD PLANE EVERY TIME, RIG RIGHT?
RIGHT? THAT'S THE GUY THAT WAS THE
THAT'S THE GUY THAT WAS THE SUBJECT OF TARGET PRACTICE BY
SUBJECT OF TARGET PRACTICE BY THE GERMAN SOLDIERS?
THE GERMAN SOLDIERS? >> SOME OF THE CREW MEMBER
>> SOME OF THE CREW MEMBER BECAUSE I WOULD SEE DIFFERENT
BECAUSE I WOULD SEE DIFFERENT CREW MAN ALL THE TIME, "OH, I
CREW MAN ALL THE TIME, "OH, I HAVE TO FLY OWN THIS MAGNET
HAVE TO FLY OWN THIS MAGNET AGAIN!
AGAIN! (LAUGHING).
(LAUGHING). >>YOU DIDN'T ROTATE?
>>YOU DIDN'T ROTATE? >> I DIDN'T ROTATE.
>> I DIDN'T ROTATE. IT IS A JOB FOR A LONER.
IT IS A JOB FOR A LONER. I KNEW VERY FEW PEOPLE EXCEPT
I KNEW VERY FEW PEOPLE EXCEPT SOME OF THE LEAD PILOTS, AND
SOME OF THE LEAD PILOTS, AND COMMANDER OF THE PLACE.
COMMANDER OF THE PLACE. SO IT WAS A LONELY JOB.
SO IT WAS A LONELY JOB. BUT I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHIN
BUT I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHIN ELSE EXCEPT NAVIGATE ALL THE WA
ELSE EXCEPT NAVIGATE ALL THE WA THERE, TOO, BECAUSE THE RADAR
THERE, TOO, BECAUSE THE RADAR EQUIPMENT WAS VERY, VERY GOOD
EQUIPMENT WAS VERY, VERY GOOD FOR NAVIGATION.
FOR NAVIGATION. IT WAS SUPERB FOR NAVIGATION.
IT WAS SUPERB FOR NAVIGATION. >>LET'S GO TO THE 21ST MISSION.
>>LET'S GO TO THE 21ST MISSION. YOU DROPPED YOUR LOAD.
YOU DROPPED YOUR LOAD. >>WELL, WE ARE NOT THERE YET.
>>WELL, WE ARE NOT THERE YET. THIS IS PARTICULAR REFINE RY WA
THIS IS PARTICULAR REFINE RY WA ROMANA AMERICAN ONO, AND PLOSTY
ROMANA AMERICAN ONO, AND PLOSTY WAS UNIQUE, THERE WERE TEN
WAS UNIQUE, THERE WERE TEN REFINERIES IN A VERY SMALL AREA.
REFINERIES IN A VERY SMALL AREA. THESE REFINERIES WERE FOREIGN
THESE REFINERIES WERE FOREIGN CAPITOL, AND THIS ONE WE WERE
CAPITOL, AND THIS ONE WE WERE BOMBING THAT DAY, MY SECOND DAY
BOMBING THAT DAY, MY SECOND DAY ROMANO AMERICANO.
ROMANO AMERICANO. ACCOUNTED FOR 33, 35% FOR OIL
ACCOUNTED FOR 33, 35% FOR OIL PRODUCTION.
PRODUCTION. >>OH, YEAH.
>>OH, YEAH. IT WAS THE HEART OF THE ENERGY
IT WAS THE HEART OF THE ENERGY SYSTEM FOR THE ACCESS.
SYSTEM FOR THE ACCESS. >>YES.
>>YES. SO YOU WERE APPROACHING THIS.
SO YOU WERE APPROACHING THIS. >>YES.
>>YES. THE PLANE ON YOUR 21ST MISSION,
THE PLANE ON YOUR 21ST MISSION, AND NOW WHAT STARTS TO HAPPEN?
AND NOW WHAT STARTS TO HAPPEN? >> WELL, THE FLACK STARTS --
>> WELL, THE FLACK STARTS -- FLACK PLOESTE, I READ PERHAPS
FLACK PLOESTE, I READ PERHAPS 300 HEAVY GUNS, THESE ARE 88
300 HEAVY GUNS, THESE ARE 88 88 MILLIMETERS, ABOUT SO BIG
88 MILLIMETERS, ABOUT SO BIG AROUND.
AROUND. THEY EXPLODE AT AN ALTITUDE AND
THEY EXPLODE AT AN ALTITUDE AND THE SKY TURNS MORE BLACK WITH
THE SKY TURNS MORE BLACK WITH IT.
IT. SOMETIMES YOU COULD SAY, WELL,
SOMETIMES YOU COULD SAY, WELL, YOU CAN WALK ON THE FLACK.
YOU CAN WALK ON THE FLACK. BUT I WAS BUSY WITH THE BOMBING.
BUT I WAS BUSY WITH THE BOMBING. SO I DIDN'T LOOK OUT.
SO I DIDN'T LOOK OUT. BUT WE RELEASED THE BOMBS
BUT WE RELEASED THE BOMBS SUCCESSFULLY.
SUCCESSFULLY. BUT IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD, THES
BUT IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD, THES TWO ENGINES, ONE AND TWO, WERE
TWO ENGINES, ONE AND TWO, WERE SO DAMAGED THAT THEY HAD TO BE
SO DAMAGED THAT THEY HAD TO BE BE -- THE PROPS WERE FEATHERED,
BE -- THE PROPS WERE FEATHERED, THAT IS STRAIGHTENED OUT SO THE
THAT IS STRAIGHTENED OUT SO THE WIND BLOWS PAST THEM.
WIND BLOWS PAST THEM. BUT THE FUEL TANKS IN THIS SIDE
BUT THE FUEL TANKS IN THIS SIDE OF THE PLANE WERE DAMAGED AND
OF THE PLANE WERE DAMAGED AND BROKEN, AND THE FUSELAGE START
BROKEN, AND THE FUSELAGE START STARTED -- VAPORS OF GASOLINE
STARTED -- VAPORS OF GASOLINE CAME INTO THE FUSELAGE.
CAME INTO THE FUSELAGE. >FUSELAGE.
>FUSELAGE. THERE WAS OTHER FUEL OVER HERE.
THERE WAS OTHER FUEL OVER HERE. AT ONE TIME, TWO INCHES OF
AT ONE TIME, TWO INCHES OF GASOLINE.
GASOLINE. YES, IT IS GASOLINE, BUT IT IS
YES, IT IS GASOLINE, BUT IT IS SUPER DANGEROUS ACTIVITY WITH
SUPER DANGEROUS ACTIVITY WITH THE PLANE FULL OF GASOLINE.
THE PLANE FULL OF GASOLINE. SO IMMEDIATELY, THE PILOT GAVE
SO IMMEDIATELY, THE PILOT GAVE THE ORDER TO -- HE HAD TO
THE ORDER TO -- HE HAD TO LIGHTEN THE LOAD SO ALL THE
LIGHTEN THE LOAD SO ALL THE MACHINE GUNS HAD TO BE THROWN
MACHINE GUNS HAD TO BE THROWN OUT, ALL THE AMMUNITIION,
OUT, ALL THE AMMUNITIION, AMMUNITIION BOXES, EVERYTHING
AMMUNITIION BOXES, EVERYTHING THAT WAS LOOSE HAD TO BE REMOVE
THAT WAS LOOSE HAD TO BE REMOVE TO LIGHTEN THE LOAD SO THERE WA
TO LIGHTEN THE LOAD SO THERE WA A HOPE OF FLYING BACK TO ITALY
A HOPE OF FLYING BACK TO ITALY ON TWO ENGINES.
ON TWO ENGINES. >>THEN THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO WORK
>>THEN THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO WORK SO PEOPLE WERE TOLD TO JUMP.
SO PEOPLE WERE TOLD TO JUMP. >>WELL, YEAH, BUT WE MANAGED TO
>>WELL, YEAH, BUT WE MANAGED TO GO TWO HOURS ON TWO ENGINES.
GO TWO HOURS ON TWO ENGINES. BUT THEN YOU DID HAD TO BAILOUT.
BUT THEN YOU DID HAD TO BAILOUT. >>YES, THIS ONE STARTED TO CATC
>>YES, THIS ONE STARTED TO CATC FIRE.
FIRE. >>ONE ENGINE WON DO IT?
>>ONE ENGINE WON DO IT? >> NO.
>> NO. >>SO NOW YOU LEFT THE PLANE, AN
>>SO NOW YOU LEFT THE PLANE, AN ON YOUR WAY DOWN.
ON YOUR WAY DOWN. TEN MEMBERS OF THE CREW.
TEN MEMBERS OF THE CREW. >>YES.
>>YES. >>AND THE LAST TO LEAVE OF THE
>>AND THE LAST TO LEAVE OF THE PILOT AND COPILOT.
PILOT AND COPILOT. >>THAT'S CORRECT.
>>THAT'S CORRECT. >>AS YOU WERE LEAVING, YOU SAW
>>AS YOU WERE LEAVING, YOU SAW THE PLANE WITHOUT SEEING THE
THE PLANE WITHOUT SEEING THE PARACHUTES FOR PILOT AND COPILO
PARACHUTES FOR PILOT AND COPILO ENTER A CLOUD.
ENTER A CLOUD. >>THAT'S CORRECT.
>>THAT'S CORRECT. >>YOU SAW A SISTER SHIP OF THE
>>YOU SAW A SISTER SHIP OF THE SAME VARIETY ON THE OTHER SIDE,
SAME VARIETY ON THE OTHER SIDE, WATCHING -- COUNTING THE NUMBER
WATCHING -- COUNTING THE NUMBER OF PARACHUTES.
OF PARACHUTES. >>YES.
>>YES. >>YOU SAW THE TWO PILOT AND
>>YOU SAW THE TWO PILOT AND COPILOT EXIT THE CLOUD AND THE
COPILOT EXIT THE CLOUD AND THE SISTER SHIP DID NOT.
SISTER SHIP DID NOT. >>CORRECTION.
>>CORRECTION. >>WHAT HAPPENED?
>>WHAT HAPPENED? >> THE ADJACENT PLANE FLYING
>> THE ADJACENT PLANE FLYING OVER HERE FOLLOWED DOWN TO SEE
OVER HERE FOLLOWED DOWN TO SEE IF THEY GOT OUT.
IF THEY GOT OUT. THE REASON WAS THAT THIS CREW -
THE REASON WAS THAT THIS CREW - THE CREW ON THE ADJACENT PLANE,
THE CREW ON THE ADJACENT PLANE, THE CAPTAIN WAS USUALLY THEIR
THE CAPTAIN WAS USUALLY THEIR CAPTAIN.
CAPTAIN. SO THE CREWS KNEW EACH OTHER.
SO THE CREWS KNEW EACH OTHER. THAT'S WHAT I ASSUMED.
THAT'S WHAT I ASSUMED. BUT ANYWAY, HE FOLLOWED DOWN,
BUT ANYWAY, HE FOLLOWED DOWN, AND IMMEDIATELY THE TWO PLANES
AND IMMEDIATELY THE TWO PLANES CRASHED PRETTY CLOSE TOGETHER I
CRASHED PRETTY CLOSE TOGETHER I WAS TOLD, WE WERE TOLD THAT BY
WAS TOLD, WE WERE TOLD THAT BY THE SERVICE.
THE SERVICE. >>I WILL CALL IT THE SISTER
>>I WILL CALL IT THE SISTER PLANE LOST ALL TEN CREW MEMBERS.
PLANE LOST ALL TEN CREW MEMBERS. >>THAT'S RIGHT.
>>THAT'S RIGHT. INSTANTLY.
INSTANTLY. AND, YET, YOU PREVAILED.
AND, YET, YOU PREVAILED. YOU WERE ABLE TO GET TO THE
YOU WERE ABLE TO GET TO THE GROUND THIS HAS BEEN THE SUBJEC
GROUND THIS HAS BEEN THE SUBJEC OF THE BOOK "FORGOTTEN 500" IN
OF THE BOOK "FORGOTTEN 500" IN WHICH STORIES WE ARE TALKING
WHICH STORIES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WERE DETAILED.
ABOUT WERE DETAILED. BUT NOW I WANT TO GO TO THE DRO
BUT NOW I WANT TO GO TO THE DRO ZONE, IN OTHER WORDS YOU BAILED
ZONE, IN OTHER WORDS YOU BAILED OUT.
OUT. YOU ARE ON THE GROUND.
YOU ARE ON THE GROUND. AND NOW THERE IS A GENTLEMAN BY
AND NOW THERE IS A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF DI DID DID DID MIHA.
THE NAME OF DI DID DID DID MIHA. HE WAS ON THE COVER OF "TIME
HE WAS ON THE COVER OF "TIME MAGAZINE" IN 1942 A AS A PERSON
MAGAZINE" IN 1942 A AS A PERSON WHO HELPED THE MEN.
WHO HELPED THE MEN. DID YOU EVER MEET HIM?
DID YOU EVER MEET HIM? >> I DID NOT MEET HIM.
>> I DID NOT MEET HIM. WE WERE -- WE BAILED OUT AT A
WE WERE -- WE BAILED OUT AT A MOUN AT THE NUS AREA OF SERBIA.
MOUN AT THE NUS AREA OF SERBIA. THEY CALL IT MOUNTAINS, BUT IT
THEY CALL IT MOUNTAINS, BUT IT IS LIKE HILLS, BUT IT WAS HILLY
IS LIKE HILLS, BUT IT WAS HILLY ENOUGH SO THE GERMANS DIDN'T
ENOUGH SO THE GERMANS DIDN'T PENETRATE INTO THIS AREA BECAUS
PENETRATE INTO THIS AREA BECAUS THERE WERE TOO MANY OF
THERE WERE TOO MANY OF MIHAILOVICH'S PEOPLE THERE.
MIHAILOVICH'S PEOPLE THERE. MIHAILOVICH WAS SUPPOSED TO
MIHAILOVICH WAS SUPPOSED TO CAPITULATE TO THE GERMANS, BUT
CAPITULATE TO THE GERMANS, BUT HE REFUSED TO DO SO, AND HE TOO
HE REFUSED TO DO SO, AND HE TOO HIS PEOPLE AND WENT INTO THE
HIS PEOPLE AND WENT INTO THE SERBIAN AREA.
SERBIAN AREA. SO THERE WERE SEVERAL THOUSAND
SO THERE WERE SEVERAL THOUSAND OF THEM THERE.
OF THEM THERE. I THINK AT LEAST 8,000 PERHAPS
I THINK AT LEAST 8,000 PERHAPS IN THIS, OH, AN AREA OF SMALL
IN THIS, OH, AN AREA OF SMALL STATE.
STATE. >>BUT THEY TOOK CARE OF YOU.
>>BUT THEY TOOK CARE OF YOU. >>YES.
>>YES. WELL, THE SERBS PROVIDED THE
WELL, THE SERBS PROVIDED THE MILITARY PROTECTION AND HELP,
MILITARY PROTECTION AND HELP, BUT THE SERBIAN PEOPLE GAVE US
BUT THE SERBIAN PEOPLE GAVE US FOOD.
FOOD. >>YOU ARE DOWN, THE IDEA
>>YOU ARE DOWN, THE IDEA HOPEFULLY GETTING RESCUED.
HOPEFULLY GETTING RESCUED. SO NOW THE GROUP IS IN THE
SO NOW THE GROUP IS IN THE CONSTRUCTION BUSINESS, YOU ARE
CONSTRUCTION BUSINESS, YOU ARE CONSTRUCTING AN AIRSTRIP, DO YO
CONSTRUCTING AN AIRSTRIP, DO YO RECALL THAT?
RECALL THAT? >> OH, SURE.
>> OH, SURE. YOU DIDN'T HAVE A D9, OR D6, SO
YOU DIDN'T HAVE A D9, OR D6, SO THIS WAS DONE BY HAND.
THIS WAS DONE BY HAND. >>THIS WAS DONE BY HAND.
>>THIS WAS DONE BY HAND. SO THE REASON THAT THIS WAS
SO THE REASON THAT THIS WAS POSSIBLE WAS THAT OSS WAS THE
POSSIBLE WAS THAT OSS WAS THE OFFICE OF STRATEGIC SERVICES
OFFICE OF STRATEGIC SERVICES WHICH PRECEDED THE CIA.
WHICH PRECEDED THE CIA. >>BILL DONOVAN.
>>BILL DONOVAN. >>YES.
>>YES. >>AND SO A LOT OF PEOPLE --
>>AND SO A LOT OF PEOPLE -- PEOPLE THAT FLY OVER THE BALKA
PEOPLE THAT FLY OVER THE BALKA BALKANS, SOME MIGHT GO DOWN IN
BALKANS, SOME MIGHT GO DOWN IN CROATIA, ADJACENT TO SERBIA.
CROATIA, ADJACENT TO SERBIA. BUT, THERE THE COMMUNISTS, THE
BUT, THERE THE COMMUNISTS, THE COMMUNIST FORCES HAD CONTROLLED
COMMUNIST FORCES HAD CONTROLLED A LOT OF YUGOSLAVIA, BUT NOT
A LOT OF YUGOSLAVIA, BUT NOT SERBIA.
SERBIA. SO IN THIS AREA, THE SERBS WERE
SO IN THIS AREA, THE SERBS WERE VERY POOR PEASANT PEOPLE, LOOK
VERY POOR PEASANT PEOPLE, LOOK STRAIGHT OUT OUT OF THE MIDDLE
STRAIGHT OUT OUT OF THE MIDDLE AGES ALMOST.
AGES ALMOST. THERE WAS NO ROADS BETWEEN
THERE WAS NO ROADS BETWEEN VILLAGES.
VILLAGES. THERE WERE TRAILS.
THERE WERE TRAILS. THE STANDARD VEHICLE WAS AN OX
THE STANDARD VEHICLE WAS AN OX CART.
CART. >>WAIT A MINUTE.
>>WAIT A MINUTE. THESE PEOPLE, TO BUILD THIS
THESE PEOPLE, TO BUILD THIS STRIP --
STRIP -- >>NO, TO BUILD THE STRIP, TO
>>NO, TO BUILD THE STRIP, TO BUILD THE STRIP, THE NUMBERS OF
BUILD THE STRIP, THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE BEING SHOT DOWN BASICALL
PEOPLE BEING SHOT DOWN BASICALL ON PLOESTE, STARTED TO MOUNT.
ON PLOESTE, STARTED TO MOUNT. AND THEY GET HIGHER AND HIGHER.
AND THEY GET HIGHER AND HIGHER. WE PUT GREAT PRESSURE ON THE
WE PUT GREAT PRESSURE ON THE PEOPLE'S FOOD.
PEOPLE'S FOOD. THEY WANT TO FEED US, BUT PRETT
THEY WANT TO FEED US, BUT PRETT SOON YOU RUN OUT OF FOOD.
SOON YOU RUN OUT OF FOOD. EVERYBODY RUNS OUT OF FOOD.
EVERYBODY RUNS OUT OF FOOD. SO THE OSS DECIDED TO SEND AN
SO THE OSS DECIDED TO SEND AN AGENT DROP -- THE THREE AGENTS
AGENT DROP -- THE THREE AGENTS INTO THIS AREA OF SERBIA THAT
INTO THIS AREA OF SERBIA THAT HAPPENED TO BE CONTROLLED BY
HAPPENED TO BE CONTROLLED BY MIHAILOVICH, AND TO TRY TO
MIHAILOVICH, AND TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET US OUT.
FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET US OUT. WHEN THEY GOT DOWN, THEY PLUS
WHEN THEY GOT DOWN, THEY PLUS SOME OF THE FLYING PERSONNEL,
SOME OF THE FLYING PERSONNEL, THE PILOTS AND OTHER SKILLED
THE PILOTS AND OTHER SKILLED PEOPLE COULD LOOK AROUND TO FIN
PEOPLE COULD LOOK AROUND TO FIN A LOCATION WHICH THEY DID FIND
A LOCATION WHICH THEY DID FIND LOCATION.
LOCATION. IT WAS QUITE SMALL.
IT WAS QUITE SMALL. IT LOOKED LIKE A SMALL FOOTBALL
IT LOOKED LIKE A SMALL FOOTBALL FIELD I THINK.
FIELD I THINK. >>700 PLUS YARDS?
>>700 PLUS YARDS? >> OH, I DON'T KNOW.
>> OH, I DON'T KNOW. NO, IT WASN'T THAT BIG.
NO, IT WASN'T THAT BIG. >>HAD TO ACCOMMODATE A C47.
>>HAD TO ACCOMMODATE A C47. >>YES.
>>YES. THE C47 IS QUITE A CAPABLE
THE C47 IS QUITE A CAPABLE AIRPLANE AND CAN HAVE RELATIVEL
AIRPLANE AND CAN HAVE RELATIVEL SHORT TAKE OFF AND SHORT LANDI
SHORT TAKE OFF AND SHORT LANDI LANDING.
LANDING. IT COULD HOLD ABOUT 25 PEOPLE.
IT COULD HOLD ABOUT 25 PEOPLE. SO WITH THE -- THE OSS PLUS THE
SO WITH THE -- THE OSS PLUS THE LOCAL PEOPLE PLUS SOME OF THE
LOCAL PEOPLE PLUS SOME OF THE PEOPLE FROM THE SHOT DOWN
PEOPLE FROM THE SHOT DOWN SURVIVORS COULD BUILD AN
SURVIVORS COULD BUILD AN AIRSTRIP.
AIRSTRIP. IT WASN'T MOSTLY A MATTER OF
IT WASN'T MOSTLY A MATTER OF PICKING UP LIMBS AND TREES AND
PICKING UP LIMBS AND TREES AND CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CUTTING IT O
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CUTTING IT O OUT.
OUT. WE HAVE SEEN IT.
WE HAVE SEEN IT. IN 2004, WE HAD A LOOK AT WHAT
IN 2004, WE HAD A LOOK AT WHAT THE FIELD LOOKED LIKE.
THE FIELD LOOKED LIKE. BUT ANYWAY, A LOT OF US WERE
BUT ANYWAY, A LOT OF US WERE COMING INTO THIS AREA FROM
COMING INTO THIS AREA FROM DIFFERENT PLACES.
DIFFERENT PLACES. EVERYBODY HAD TO WALK.
EVERYBODY HAD TO WALK. WE WALKED 150 KILOMETERS.
WE WALKED 150 KILOMETERS. BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT OTHERS
BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT OTHERS THAT HAD BEEN RESCUED BY A
THAT HAD BEEN RESCUED BY A SPECIAL AIR FORCE ORGANIZATION
SPECIAL AIR FORCE ORGANIZATION WHICH CAME IN TO ESPECIALLY TO
WHICH CAME IN TO ESPECIALLY TO FLY PEOPLE OUT.
FLY PEOPLE OUT. WE WERE ON THE LAST END OF THAT.
WE WERE ON THE LAST END OF THAT. BUT IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE
BUT IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE OSS, YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW
OSS, YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING SO YOU DON'T --
ANYTHING SO YOU DON'T -- (LAUGHING) WE DIDN'T REALLY KNO
(LAUGHING) WE DIDN'T REALLY KNO THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD WENT
THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD WENT OUT BEFORE WE WENT OUT.
OUT BEFORE WE WENT OUT. >>THIS IS A LITTLE DANGEROUS.
>>THIS IS A LITTLE DANGEROUS. >>OH, YEAH.
>>OH, YEAH. OUR EVACUATION WAS AT NIGHT.
OUR EVACUATION WAS AT NIGHT. AND I COULDN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW
AND I COULDN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW THE NAVIGATOR ON THAT C47 COULD
THE NAVIGATOR ON THAT C47 COULD FIND THIS PLACE.
FIND THIS PLACE. >>BUT THEY DID?
>>BUT THEY DID? >> BUT THEY DID.
>> BUT THEY DID. IT WAS A DARK NIGHT.
IT WAS A DARK NIGHT. >>250 WERE EVACUATED, ABOUT TH
>>250 WERE EVACUATED, ABOUT TH THAT?
THAT? >> WELL --
>> WELL -- >>THAT STRIP, THAT LOCATION.
>>THAT STRIP, THAT LOCATION. THE TOTAL NUMBERS APPROACHED 5
THE TOTAL NUMBERS APPROACHED 5 500.
500. 500 PEOPLE MADE.
500 PEOPLE MADE. >>MADE IT.
>>MADE IT. >>YES, AND THERE WERE A NUMBER
>>YES, AND THERE WERE A NUMBER OF -- THE FIRST EVACUATION I
OF -- THE FIRST EVACUATION I THINK TOOK 250 OR THAT KIND OF
THINK TOOK 250 OR THAT KIND OF NUMBER IN THE FIRST FLIGHT OUT.
NUMBER IN THE FIRST FLIGHT OUT. BUT THEN THE OTHERS WERE MORE
BUT THEN THE OTHERS WERE MORE AND MORE TOWARD NIGHTTIME
AND MORE TOWARD NIGHTTIME ACTIVITY.
ACTIVITY. OUR LAST ONE WAS DEFINITELY IN
OUR LAST ONE WAS DEFINITELY IN THE NIGHT BECAUSE THEY WERE
THE NIGHT BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO
AFRAID THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY DO IT.
SUCCESSFULLY DO IT. >>YOU SUGGESTED -- I MEAN THE
>>YOU SUGGESTED -- I MEAN THE STRIPS WERE NOT LIGHTED.
STRIPS WERE NOT LIGHTED. >>OH, NO.
>>OH, NO. WELL, THEY WERE LIGHTED WITH
WELL, THEY WERE LIGHTED WITH FIRES THAT WE PILE UP THE BRUSH
FIRES THAT WE PILE UP THE BRUSH OUR PARTICULAR EFFORT ON THE
OUR PARTICULAR EFFORT ON THE RUNWAYS WAS DEFINITELY INVOLVED
RUNWAYS WAS DEFINITELY INVOLVED IN COLLECTING MATERIALS TO LIGH
IN COLLECTING MATERIALS TO LIGH THE FIRES ALONG THE SIDES AND W
THE FIRES ALONG THE SIDES AND W WERE DOWN TO ABOUT BETWEEN 20
WERE DOWN TO ABOUT BETWEEN 20 AND 25 GOT OUT THE NIGHT I DID.
AND 25 GOT OUT THE NIGHT I DID. >>NOW, GETTING BACK TO THE
>>NOW, GETTING BACK TO THE GENERAL, HE WAS EXECUTED.
GENERAL, HE WAS EXECUTED. >>YES.
>>YES. >>AND, YET, HE WAS AWARDED THE
>>AND, YET, HE WAS AWARDED THE LEGION OF MERIT.
LEGION OF MERIT. >>YES.
>>YES. >>AT THE RECOMMENDATION OF
>>AT THE RECOMMENDATION OF EISENHOWER, AND TRUMAN.
EISENHOWER, AND TRUMAN. >>TRUMAN.
>>TRUMAN. >>EISENHOWER RECOMMENDED IT FRO
>>EISENHOWER RECOMMENDED IT FRO WHAT I UNDERSTAND.
WHAT I UNDERSTAND. HAVING SAID THAT, IT WAS KEPT
HAVING SAID THAT, IT WAS KEPT SECRET FOR APPEARED EIGHT OR
SECRET FOR APPEARED EIGHT OR NINE YEARS.
NINE YEARS. >>WELL, THIS WHOLE RESCUE WAS
>>WELL, THIS WHOLE RESCUE WAS SECRET FOR MUCH, MUCH LONGER
SECRET FOR MUCH, MUCH LONGER THAN THAT.
THAN THAT. AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL THAT TOOK
AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL THAT TOOK PART IN IT HAD TO SIGN A
PART IN IT HAD TO SIGN A STATEMENT THAT THEY WOULD NOT
STATEMENT THAT THEY WOULD NOT REVEAL HOW THEY GOT OUT.
REVEAL HOW THEY GOT OUT. THIS IS BECAUSE OF POLITICAL
THIS IS BECAUSE OF POLITICAL PRESSURES.
PRESSURES. MIHAILOVICH WAS HOPING THAT THI
MIHAILOVICH WAS HOPING THAT THI PLUS HIS OTHER WORK WOULD IN
PLUS HIS OTHER WORK WOULD IN DEFENDING HIS AREA AGAINST THE
DEFENDING HIS AREA AGAINST THE GERMANS WOULD ENABLE THEM TO GE
GERMANS WOULD ENABLE THEM TO GE SOME WEAPONS BECAUSE THEY COULD
SOME WEAPONS BECAUSE THEY COULD SEE THE COMMUNISTS WERE COMING
SEE THE COMMUNISTS WERE COMING BECAUSE THEY HAD NO HEAVY
BECAUSE THEY HAD NO HEAVY WEAPONS.
WEAPONS. MIHAILOVICH HAD ONLY RIFLES.
MIHAILOVICH HAD ONLY RIFLES. >>HE WAS EXECUTED.
>>HE WAS EXECUTED. >>YES, HE WAS EXECUTED.
>>YES, HE WAS EXECUTED. >>AND THEN A GROUP, CONSISTING
>>AND THEN A GROUP, CONSISTING OF YOU AND SEVERAL OTHERS WENT
OF YOU AND SEVERAL OTHERS WENT OVER AND GAVE HIS SURVIVING
OVER AND GAVE HIS SURVIVING DAUGHTER THIS MEDAL.
DAUGHTER THIS MEDAL. >>WELL, YEAH.
>>WELL, YEAH. AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THE
AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THE SECRETARY COLIN POWELL FINALLY
SECRETARY COLIN POWELL FINALLY WAS INFORMED THAT A MEDAL HAS
WAS INFORMED THAT A MEDAL HAS BEEN AWARDED TO MIHAILOVICH, BU
BEEN AWARDED TO MIHAILOVICH, BU HAD NEVER -- NO ONE COULD FIND
HAD NEVER -- NO ONE COULD FIND IT.
IT. WELL, HE MANAGED TO HAVE SOMEON
WELL, HE MANAGED TO HAVE SOMEON FIND IT.
FIND IT. AND SO THIS WHOLE THING WAS A
AND SO THIS WHOLE THING WAS A SECRET BECAUSE OF THE COMMUNIS
SECRET BECAUSE OF THE COMMUNIS COMMUNIST -- THE AGREEMENTS WIT
COMMUNIST -- THE AGREEMENTS WIT ROOSEVELT, CHURCH HILL AND STAL
ROOSEVELT, CHURCH HILL AND STAL ISTALISTALIN, THE AGREEMENT THA
ISTALISTALIN, THE AGREEMENT THA OUT, THAT SAID, IF THE COMMUNIS
OUT, THAT SAID, IF THE COMMUNIS STAYED OUT OF WESTERN EUROPE,
STAYED OUT OF WESTERN EUROPE, THEY COST BALKANS.
THEY COST BALKANS. THAT SHOVED ALL THE SUPPORT TO
THAT SHOVED ALL THE SUPPORT TO THE COMMUNISTS.
THE COMMUNISTS. MIHAILOVICH WAS A VICTIM, AND
MIHAILOVICH WAS A VICTIM, AND THE WHOLE BALL CA BALKAN.
THE WHOLE BALL CA BALKAN. >>BUT HE SAVED YOUR LIFE --
>>BUT HE SAVED YOUR LIFE -- >>, OH, ABSOLUTELY.
>>, OH, ABSOLUTELY. SERBIAN PEOPLE WERE VERY, VERY
SERBIAN PEOPLE WERE VERY, VERY GENEROUS.
GENEROUS. >>BOB, THIS HAS BEEN MY
>>BOB, THIS HAS BEEN MY PRIVILEGE TO VITT WITH YOU TOD
PRIVILEGE TO VITT WITH YOU TOD TODAY, AND IT HAS BEEN A JOY
TODAY, AND IT HAS BEEN A JOY LEARNING ABOUT YOU.
LEARNING ABOUT YOU. >>THANK YOU.
>>THANK YOU. ENJOYED IT, ED.
ENJOYED IT, ED. GOOD.
GOOD. >>