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[applause] L> I don’t know about you but all this makes me shiver.
T> Dell'Utri.... L> An assassination attack... unsuccessful [applause]
stand still, don't jump on your seats, everybody freeze! [applause]
M> So: Dell'Utri hires this politician and says, "Here you have to build a political party,
Berlusconi says that the politicians we refer to have legal problems
D> We are in 1991-92? M> In '92, shortly after the arrest of Mario Chiesa
after the first small suspects in Milan, Craxi will be involved only in December.
Dell’Utri hides Cartotto because what he is doing is known only by him and Berlusconi.
Fedele Confalonieri wasn’t told of this project because he was against entering politics.
D> Fedele is nice, uh? M> If you say now the things he said then you would look like Stalin, but it was Confalonieri.
He said "it is impossible for us not to sell the TVs before entering politics".
He was trying to convince Berlusconi, this is why he was not told in the early stages, as Cartotto says.
So he began working at the foundation of the party, that will be revealed to the Italians a year and a half later: nobody knows.
Cartotto says a lot of things that are fantastic!
I want to mention them correctly because the lawsuits fly, and we do not want to be taken to court ... L> I don't know about you, but I don't! [laugh]
Now I think that the being sued is the least of our problems. [laugh - applause]
M> Cartotto explained the birth of Forza Italia:"Berlusconi, in a convention of executives from his company,
attacked by saying: “The friends who helped us (Craxi) count less and less,
our enemies are more and more potent, we must prepare to fight”.
But Berlusconi says something other amazing things: in 1992-93,
When Caselli was not even prosecutor in Palermo, when no one dreamed of links with mafia, Berlusconi, according to Cartotto,
went around saying:"if we do not go into politics they will accuse us of being linked to mafia."
Now, I never feared of being accused of links with Mafia. Did it happen to you? I do not think so. L> No.
T> Cartotto says that “Berlusconi feared that entering politics he could be accused of contiguity to Mafia”.
Cartotto told "Corriere della Sera" that Berlusconi said exactly these words:
”They will look in all the documents, they will say that I am linked to mafia”.
L> But why? Strange, no? T> Cartotto also says that, when the first rumors of these "liaisons dangereuses", came out in 1994:
"I remember that Berlusconi accused Dell'Utri saying that Forza Italia was losing ground in the polls because of this problems with Mafia,
I remember that Dell'Utri's reaction surprised me alot, when he literally told me:
”Silvio should thank me because if I open my mouth...”
L> These are Cartotto's statements. Made where?
T> To the judges of Caltanissetta and Palermo that are looking for the people who ordered the killing of judges Falcone and Borsellino.
L> And how do those come into the plot? T> How many lawsuits do you want to get?
L> We're trying to understand, you're saying things that are out of this world, this is not a normal logic, I think, is it?
Don’t be so satisfied, it is a terrible thing, mamma mia (smiles)!
T> I know these things and maybe I give them a little less importance.
There are pubblic declarations of prosecutor Luca Tescaroli at the appeal process for the massacre in Capaci where all the mafia bosses were convicted from Riina downwards.
They were convicted to have ordered and carried out the massacre that saw the death of judge Falcone, his wife and the men of security.
Tescaroli talks about another ongoing investigation in Caltanissetta,
the one that concerns those who suggested the sequence that had to be followed by the killers for the massacres in Capaci and via D'Amelio:
during those 50 days the two most famous italian judges, Falcone e Borsellino, were killed...
Entire highways blown apart, something never seen before, perhaps in Colombia.
In that trial the prosecutor, recalled the words of few former insiders that declared that Toto’ Riina,
before organizing these massacres, had met some important people and these people were Berlusconi had Dell'Utri.
Of course this is an indictment, a public document, it is something read in court and that we have published,
it is not a ruling, God forbid, it's just a topic of inquiry,
an inquiry that was taking place while Tescaroli was talking.
There are other investigations linked to the murders of ’93 when Mafia began to look curiously at our artistic heritage.
Mafia came out of Sicily and began to bomb the Uffizi, Via Palestro in Milan and San Giovanni in Laterano in Rome,
not to mention the attack to Maurizio Costanzo, that is also very interesting.
If you take a look at the timing, and then read what Cartotto says,
namely that Maurizio Costanzo was one, within Berlusconi's company, fiercely opposed to the entrance in politics.
And to the birth of Forza italia.... It's a very nice picture.
L> Well, I would say, explosive revelations. T> Do you know what is ugly... or beautiful?
These are not things that I found and that no one else could find. These things were said in a courtroom.
L> Well, because all these things have yet to be demonstrated. T> Yes, but when a prosecutor says something, this should be a topic for a public discussion.
L> No discussion? T> They do not talk about it much. L> Is there an order to avoid such discussion? T> A little, maybe.
L> Maybe they’re waiting. T> Maybe they’re waiting.
L> And how does Craxi come into the plot? Because everything started with Craxi.
T> Yes, Cartotto said that Craxi was present at a couple of those meetings in which the birth of Forza Italia was decided.
This happened shortly before Craxi flew to Hamamet to avoid being arrested.
L> So what you say is that the birth of the party is due to the fact that the political references were missing.
So, at a certain point they decided to do for themselves. Right?
T> This is what Cartotto, the only witness that spoke, is saying. Cartotto is not a former Mafia member, he is not a criminal ...
L> And where is now this Cartotto? T> I think he lives just outside Milan.
He is often called to testify in various trials...Dell'Utri's, Berlusconi's...
L> Another chapter is very interesting, and that's the one of the Tremonti-law:
Tremonti is in the news this week because he said that the Finance minister Visco is a gangster. I read a very interesting thing, on this Tremonti-law.
T> The Tremonti-law is a law granting tax breaks to companies that re-invest profits. As such it is neutral.
But, one day a company called Mediaset buys some movies and asks the government if it can access the benefits of the Tremonti-law.
And the government answered yes, you can access these benefits. And Mediaset earns 243 billion liras.
What is the problem? I do not know if Mediaset did or did not have the right to access these benefits;
some say no but let’s say that they had the right to access: the problem is that the beneficiary of this law is the one who made it,
namely Silvio Berlusconi, that with one hand is the prime minister and with the other is the owner of Mediaset
and asks himself: "Excuse me, can we take advantage of this law?” And answers to himself: “yes you can." And in the end he earns 250 billions. [Huge applause]