Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
>>> PART 2 OF THE INTERVIEW WITH DR. PAUL FARMER NEXT ON
WYOMING CHRONICLE. >> HELLO.
I'M RICHARD AGAR. WELCOME TO WYOMING CHRONICLE.
IN OUR PREVIOUS PROGRAM, WE MET DR. PAUL FARMER AND OPHELIA
DAHL. COFOUNDERS OF PARTNERS IN
HEALTH. THAT ORGANIZATION IS DEDICATED
TO PROVIDING HEALTHCARE TO THE WORLD'S NEEDIEST PEOPLE.
IT HAS GROWN OVER THE PAST 25 YEARS TO ESTABLISH MORE THAN 70
CLINICS AND HOSPITALS IN A DOZEN
COUNTRIES. THEIR WORK HAS LITERALLY
TOUCHED MILLIONS OF LIVES.
PART 2 OF THE INTERVIEW STARTS WITH DR. PAUL FARMER'S
PIONEERING WORK IN SUCH -- IN FIGHTING DISEASES SUCH AS
TUBERCULOSIS THAT HAVE DEVELOPED
RESISTANCE TO THE DRUGS USED TO FIGHT THEM.
FIRST, A BIT OF BACKGROUND. >> AND EAGER CROWD COMES INTO
THE EVENT HALL IN JACKSON HOLE, WYOMING.
IT IS AN EVENT FOR PARTNERS IN HEALTH AND EVERYONE HAS COME TO
HEAR STORIES FROM TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE MADE A
DIFFERENCE. OPHELIA DAHL IS THE DAUGHTER OF
FAMED CHILDREN'S AUTHOR. THE AUTHOR OF MANY LOOKS
INCLUDING CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY.
OPHELIA DAHL LESS -- LEFT ENGLAND FOR HAITI TO INVOLVE --
WORK AT A CHILDREN'S ORPHANAGE. AND THERE SHE MET DR. PAUL
FARMER. >> WE SAW THINGS THAT WE HAVE
NOT SEEN BEFORE. I NEVER SAW THE WAY HUNGER CAN
WORK ITS WAY THROUGH A COMMUNITY
OR EPIDEMIC DISEASE. I NEVER SAW ANYONE DIE OF
MALARIA OR TUBERCULOSIS. AND ONE OF THE WORST THINGS
THAT WE RECALL FROM THE FIRST YEAR
WAS SOMEONE DYING IN CHILDBIRTH.
>> THOSE EXPERIENCES STAYED WITH OPHELIA DAHL AND DR. PAUL
FARMER HE WOULD WORK TO ESTABLISH GREATER HEALTHCARE IN
CANGE, HAITI. IN 1987, OPHELIA DAHL, DR. PAUL
FARMER, AND FOR -- A FARMER -- A
FORMER MED STUDENT ESTABLISHED PARTNERS IN HEALTH.
THEY HAD NO FUNDS BUT HIGH AMBITIONS TO BRING HEALTHCARE
TO THE NEEDIEST.
FORTUNATELY, ANOTHER FOUNDER HAD
DEEP POCKETS. BOSTON REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER
THOM WHITE. >> I CLIMB INTO BED AT NIGHT
AND PULLED THE SHEETS UP AND THANK GOD, AND THESE PEOPLE ARE
SLEEPING IN BED. THIS IS SUFFERING AT IT'S WORST
FOR THESE PEOPLE. >> OVER THE PAST
QUARTER-CENTURY, PARTNERS IN HEALTH HAS EXPANDED ITS
SERVICES TO THE POOR AROUND THE WORLD,
INCLUDING THE U.S. DR. PAUL FARMER HAS WORKED
TIRELESSLY TO TREAT INDIVIDUALS WHILE SPREADING THE MEDICAL
GOSPEL OF HEALTHCARE FOR ALL. >> THIS IS A DISTRICT OF OVER
400,000 PEOPLE AND IN 2003 OR 2004, THERE WAS NOT A SINGLE
DOCTOR MUCH LESS A HOSPITAL. THERE WAS A HEALTH CENTER HERE
BUT REALLY PEOPLE HAD TO GO TO OTHER DISTRICT HOSPITALS.
AND ON FOOT, THAT IS MANY HOURS.
IT IS TWO HOURS IN A VEHICLE. >> IN THE SUMMER OF 2012, THE
CANCER CENTER OPENED. THE FIRST AND RWANDA.
>> PARTNERS IN HEALTH -- PARTNERS IN HEALTH PROVIDES
MEDICAL CARE IN A DOZEN COUNTRIES.
TO MORE THAN 2 MILLION PATIENTS EACH YEAR.
BUT THIS PROJECT, A NEW HOSPITAL, CLOTHES TO WHERE DR.
PAUL FARMER BEGAN HIS SERVICE IN
HAITI, HAS A SPECIAL MEANING. >> TODAY IS A COMBINATION OF
25 YEARS OF DREAMING ABOUT BETTER MEDICAL CARE TO PEOPLE
IN THIS TOWN.
>> THE RIBBON CAN'T -- CUTTING ALSO FEATURED FELLOW PARTNERS
-- PARTNERS IN HEALTH PARTNER, JIM
KIM, NOW PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD BANK.
OLD FRIENDS STILL WORKING TOWARD
THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL. >> THERE IS ANOTHER FIGHT THAT
IS NOT JUST EXTENDING TREATMENT TO THE POOR.
BUT YOU HAVE ALSO BEEN INVOLVED IN A FIGHT ON THE VERY NATURE
OF WHAT WORKS.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE SLUMS OF PERU. YOU RAN INTO THE PROBLEM OF
AGENTS BEING TOTALLY RESISTANT TO ALL KNOWN DRUGS.
DESCRIBE THAT BATTLE. >> BRIEFLY, IF YOU WILL.
>> YES, BRIEFLY. THE BRIEF VERSION.
>> . >> I'M A CONDUCT -- FUN OF HIM
BECAUSE PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS AND ONE A YES-OR-NO ANSWER.
>> THAT IS WHAT MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS USED TO CALL ME,
LITTLE PROFESSOR. >> HAPPILY, THEY DID NOT TAKE
ME OUT AND BEAT ME UP. THIS IS NOT A BATTLE UNIQUE TO
PERU. YOU TAKE AN INFECTION, IN THIS
CASE IT IS TUBERCULOSIS, IT COULD BE A PARASITE, AND YOU
SAY, NOW WE HAVE SOMETHING THEY CAN BE USED TO TREAT IT, AND
ANTIBIOTIC. BECAUSE ANTIBIOTIC DOES NOT
MEAN ANTIVIRAL.
IT IS A GENERAL TERM. YOU TREAT THE PATIENT.
AND THE BUGS CAUSING THIS, THEY MUTATE.
AND THEY MUTATE IN WAYS THAT WILL ALLOW THEMSELVES TO
SURVIVE. THAT IS WHAT MICROBES DO.
SO THIS PROBLEM WAS VERY FAMILIAR TO ANY INFECTIOUS
DISEASE DOCTOR. AND I WAS FINISHING MY TRAINING
IN INFECTIOUS DISEASE WHEN WE SAW THIS BIG OUTBREAK.
AND THE REAL ARGUMENT, RICHARD, WAS NOT ABOUT -- PEOPLE SAID,
THEY ARE RESISTANT TO EVERY ANTIBIOTIC.
I SAID, NO THEY ARE NOT. THERE ARE SEVERAL MORE.
WE HAVE SEVERAL MORE DRUGS WE CAN USE.
>> THEY WERE STUCK IN PROTOCOLS.
>> YES. AND THE PROTOCOLS WERE DRIVEN
BY WANTING.
AND THAT WAS COST. >> THAT IS A FIGHT THAT YOU
OBVIOUSLY WERE FIGHTING. >> YES.
>> A QUESTION TO YOU. MANY MAY SAY THIS IS
OVERWHELMING GIVEN THE CONDITIONS THAT YOU WORK IN,
WHICH PROBABLY WOULD IN TURN CREATE A SENSE OF HOPELESSNESS
OR HOPELESSNESS. HOW DO YOU TRANSFORM THAT
PERCEPTION WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT?
>> IT HAS NOT BEEN MY EXPERIENCE AT ALL.
THERE HAVE BEEN MOMENTS OF GREAT
SADNESS AND DEPRESSION. AND IF YOU OPEN YOURSELVES UP
TO THE EXQUISITE PAIN OF OTHERS,
THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT IT DOES THINGS TO YOU.
IF YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO TRANSLATE THAT PIECE OF THAT
INTO SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE WORKS, THAT HAS AN EFFECT ON
SOMEONE ELSE OR EVEN BETTER, A GROUP OF PEOPLE, AND IT
INSPIRES OTHER PEOPLE, THAT IS THE
REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF IT.
AND I THINK HAVING BEEN PART OF A GROUP ABLE TO DO THAT, FEELS
LIKE THE NATURE. >> WHEN YOU SEE LATE-NIGHT TV,
SHOWING CHILDREN IN VARIOUS PATHETIC CONDITIONS, DO YOU
THINK THOSE ADDS WORK? THE GUILT APPROACH?
>> I THINK THEY WORK FOR SOME PEOPLE.
OR THEY WOULD NOT KEEP DOING THEM.
IT IS HARD FOR ME NOT TO FEEL --
IF THOSE ADDS COME ON, I SWITCH OFF.
NOT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WORK ON ME.
WHITE THE REVERSE. THEY KEEP WORKING ON ME.
IT TAKES UP ROOM IN YOUR PSYCHE IF YOU KEEP THINKING ABOUT THAT
ONE PERSON. BECAUSE IT IS THE NORM US.
BUT LOOKING BEHIND US, AS WE DO,
THAT IS WHAT KEEPS US GOING. >> YOU HAVE ACTUALLY SAID --
AND THIS IS A QUOTE, THAT YOU FIGHT THE LONG DEFEAT.
SO IT'S ALMOST AS IF THE FIGHT KEEPS GOING.
YOU ARE NOT OUT YET BUT YOU CALL
IT A LONG DEFEAT. >> I WOULD NOT SAY I STILL
CALL THAT -- YOU CAN SAY I CALLED IT AT ONE TIME IN ONE
CONVERSATION. >> OKAY.
>> THERE IS SOMETHING POETIC ABOUOUT THAT.
>> IT IS. BUT IS -- IT IS ALSO THE LONG
SUCCESS. IT IS NOT MINE OR HERS.
IT IS THAT WHEN YOU TAKE THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE
AVAILABLE NOW AND APPLY THEM TO THE
PROBLEMS WE ARE DESCRIBING, AGAIN, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
POVERTY AND DISEASE, AND THEN ASK THE QUESTION, CAN WE BREAK
THE CYCLE OF DISEASE? THE ANSWER IS, YES.
THE LONG DEFEAT IS NOT SO MUCH IN THE FIELD.
IT IS THE STRUGGLE TO FIND A RESOURCE, WHICH AFTER ALL, ARE
NOT A LOT. >> SO YOU FEEL YOU ARE PASSED
TO THAT CONFLICT? >> NO.
THERE ARE DAYS WHEN I FEEL THAT THIS IS A REALLY LONG STRUGGLE
OR LONG DEFEAT. BUT AS WE SAID, YOU LOOK BEHIND
YOU AND SEE THE MOST TALENTED YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE UNITED
STATES OR HAITI OR ROMANDA, COMMITTED TO THIS CAUSE FOR
GLOBAL HEALTH, AND THAT IS A SUCCESS.
SO I AM NOT WHAT I SAID. IT IS ONE WAY OF --
>> DURING A NATURAL DISASTER INTO THIS, BECAUSE IT IS FROM
2010, A DEVASTATING EARTHQUAKE, YOU HAVE FOCUSED SO MUCH OF
YOUR EFFORTS THERE.
HOW TO THAT EFFECT YOU? >> I THINK IN MANY WAYS, IT
AUGMENTED WHAT WE WERE DOING. AND IT POSED ENORMOUS
CHALLENGES. THE BEST PART OF IT, IS BECAUSE
OF THE PLATFORM THAT HAITIAN COLLEAGUES BUILD, WE WERE ABLE
TO ACT QUICKLY. AND EVEN THOUGH WE THINK OF
OURSELVES AS AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS IN IT FOR THE LONG RUN,
WHEN WE NEEDED TO TURN ON A DIME, WE COULD BE A CRISIS
ORGANIZATION ALSO. THAT IS THE BIT THAT FEELS
GOOD. DID IT PUT ENORMOUS STRESS ON
THE ORGANIZATION? ABSOLUTELY.
DID WE HAVE TO SWITCH -- YOU DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO WORK YOU
DON'T SAY, I'M SORRY, WE DON'T HAVE A REAL HELP --
REHABILITATIVE MEDICINE CLINIC. SO WE WILL STICK TO TREATING
MALARIA. YOU SAY, HOW CAN WE GET BETTER
AT MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO WHAT THEY NEED.
>> PAUL, THERE IS AN ETHICAL QUESTION BECAUSE I'M SURE IT
WILL -- IS ONE THAT HAS ACCOMPANIED YOU.
YOU WROTE AN ARTICLE CALLED, THE
MAJOR INFECTIOUS DISEASES, TO TREAT OR NOT TO TREAT.
AND YOU SAID IN THAT, THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION FACING
MODERN MEDICINE INVOLVES HUMAN RIGHTS.
WE ARE WITNESSING THAT OUTCOME GAP WHERE OBVIOUSLY IN THE
RICHER COUNTRIES, YOU ARE LIKELY
TO GET BETTER. AND VICE VERSA.
YOU ARE LOOKING AT, WITH THIS AMOUNT OF RESOURCE HELP THIS
MANY PEOPLE OR WOULD IT HELP MANY MORE WITH A LESSER PROBLEM
X HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT? >> I DEAL WITH THAT -- I AM
NOT DISMISSING THAT AS AN ETHICAL PROBLEM.
IT IS AN ETHICAL PROBLEM. THE VIEW THAT WE HAVE ADOPTED
25 YEARS AGO IS THAT HAITI, FOR
EXAMPLE, AND THE UNITED STATES ARE NOT PART OF TWO DIFFERENT
WORLDS. THEY ARE PART OF ONE WORLD.
AND WHEN YOU MAKE THAT PLUNGE, WHEN YOU SAY, THE LIFE OF
SOMEONE IN RWANDA IS WORTH THE SAME AS THE LIFE OF MY COUSIN,
THEN YOU HAVE A CLEAR READING AS
WEATHER THAT IS HELD OUT AS ETHICAL PROBLEMS.
>> THAT IS A LONG WAY TO CONVINCE PEOPLE.
>> ONCE YOU DO THAT INTERNALLY, IN FACT, I WOULD
ARGUE THAT MOST PHYSICIANS REALLY DO THINK THAT.
YOU GET SOMEONE WORKING IN AN EMERGENCY ROOM IN A CITY AND
WYOMING, AND AN ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON SAYS, ONE DAY THEY SEE
A LOCAL PERSON WHO IS VERY
WEALTHY AND THEN ANOTHER DAY THEY SEE
SOMEONE WHO IS MAY BE AN ILLEGAL
REFUGEE OR SOMETHING, IF THAT PERSON HAS A BROKEN FEMUR, THEY
WILL GET THE SAME TREATMENT OR SHOULD.
AND THE DOCTORS WILL WANT THAT. DOES THAT HAPPEN?
NO. BUT TO THE DOCTORS SAY, I DON'T
WANT TO TREAT THAT PERSON BECAUSE THEY ARE LESS VALUABLE.
NOT VERY OFTEN IN MY EXPERIENCE.
>> I KNOW YOU LIVE IN RWANDA. I'M NOT SURE THE LAST TIME YOU
WERE IN THE U.S. FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME.
AS YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT OBAMA DID
MANAGE TO PASS THE AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE ACT.
WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THAT STEP IN THIS COUNTRY?
>> I THINK IT GOES TO, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE RIGHT TO
HEALTHCARE IS A POWERFUL PARADIGM, THEN PEOPLE SHOULD
NOT DIE OF AN UNTREATED ILLNESS
BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR. THEY SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO
HEALTHCARE. ONCE YOU THINK THAT IS
POWERFUL, AND A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WE WORK
WITH DO, THEN YOU NEED TO PUT IN
PLACE SYSTEMS. AND THE SYSTEMS -- SAFETY NET
SYSTEM, AND THOSE SYSTEMS WOULD COME FROM WHERE?
THE RIGHT TO VOTE, THE RIGHT TO EDUCATION, USUALLY THE
GOVERNMENT. >> OPHELIA DAHL, PARTNERS IN
HEALTH IS BASED IN BOSTON. SO YOU ARE A PLAYER HERE.
YOU ARE ESTABLISHED HERE. DO YOU SEE THE ORGANIZATION
REACHING ITS VOICE TO SUPPORT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IN
AMERICA? >> WE BELIEVE IN UNIVERSAL
HEALTHCARE EVERYWHERE. >> NO BORDERS.
>> ANYWAY, IT IS HARD. GOING BACK TO PAUL'S POINT
ABOUT, WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK LIVES ARE EQUAL.
SO THE WORK THAT WE STARTED DOING, HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES, WAS VERY MUCH BASED ON THE WORK WE ARE DOING IN HAITI.
HAVE A PROJECT IN BOSTON. AND THAT IS BEING REPLICATED IN
A COUPLE OTHER PLACES. AND WE ALSO WORK OTHER PLACES.
>> SOME MAY THINK IT IS SHOCKING THAT YOUR ORGANIZATION
HAS TO SET UP HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES. SOME SAY THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS
THE FINEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.
>> THERE IS NOT THE FINEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.
THE FINEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD.
IF YOU HAVE TERTIARY CARE PROBLEMS, SERIOUS INJURY,
CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE, A LOT OF MALIGNANCIES, I WOULD PICK
AN AMERICAN TEACHING HOSPITAL OR
TERTIARY HOSPITAL MORE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY.
YOU ARE FROM CANADA. CANADA HAS A BETTER HEALTHCARE
SYSTEM. AND A SYSTEM JUST MEANS, AGAIN,
THIS OVERALL NET. >> I KEEP HEARING THAT.
>> YOU USE THE WORD SYSTEM. I AM TAKING THAT LITERALLY.
A LOT OF COUNTRIES HAVE BETTER SYSTEMS.
BUT THEY DO NOT REACH THE PANICLES OF AMERICA.
>> I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN TO CUBA MANY TIMES.
>> I WOULD SAY THEY HAVE A GOOD SYSTEM.
A GOOD SYSTEM OF REACHING PEOPLE
ON HAVING A SAFETY NET. BUT A LOT OF THEIR SHORTCOMINGS
ARE GETTING UP TO THOSE GRAND TETON PEAKS.
IF YOU HAVE A COMP LOCATED ONLY FOR PROCEDURE AND HAVE THE
CHANCE TO GET YOUR CARE AT ANY HOSPITAL IN THE WORLD -- AND IT
IS MORE STRIKING IN TERMS OF PRIMARY CARE, OR COMMUNITY-
D DO
NO EET.WI
T>> E ANK U FOTHE CAL FEREE.
HAHA
LOW E.I CAULD IN T PLAS ULY BA L
IN PSWE RE. CTATR ILOW WEREANDEX
NS TH LOE L.
E. OU VE ANCTNS YOVEACTULY SAID
THATE SETHE R LO >>ACEXACLYY.
SAAND EXY.THR
ATAT R, ISINAT BAR, THATIS SR,ETHI TT ISISQUATE
TO ISTH
ETAND HAT T ANS E
ANHAANACTULY SANG, D I LTHMEANTHATACLYNG
MPAR TO ALTHUTCOS RE.
OPARYINGOR YIORPEY PIS.
LARI-- HE Y AMERA?
AMNOA? THCOUNIES AREWORKG
IN THEYWOUL NODIE F
COIE ATHWO G
HE TH
TH IS DIF TH DIFFENCE US B. NG A
SAY, ICAN SE
THE R HIER DIEN AN GE SACA
R TH? ANE A IT HHER AN TH.
ANTHAT? E IT HEWH THEAN.
TH TST THIN
STE IN AND E QSTIO
E ANE ST AROU
LIMITIONCOMM. >>ANDWEAR HA
AE LITICO. LITATIS HE ME
SO. TA HAVE LITE MO TOOVER
HAFE LOW E FOOVDER, ACPARTLLRS YOOWDE
PARS HETH, KIM,WH SHAR YOU VIEWTHATTHKI
THSH YVI MECINE INVOES
CISOCIAL CHANGE.
HE IS NOW HEAD OF THE WORLD BANK.
WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS OF YOUR FORMER PARTNER?
>> VERY HIGH EXPECTATIONS. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK HE CAN
DO? >> WHAT HE IS DOING NOW,
WORKING AT THE BANK, AS AN INSIDER, HE IS GOING AROUND TOO
VARIOUS PLACES AND SAYING -- HE IS MEETING WITH EVERYONE.
I WAS THERE NOT VERY LONG AGO AND THEY HEARD A NUMBER OF
TIMES ON VARIOUS FLOORS -- IT HAS
BEEN YEARS SINCE A BANK PRESIDENT
HAS EVER COME DOWN. .
SO I THINK HE IS LEARNING ABOUT THIS ENORMOUS MACHINE THAT WAS
DESIGNED TO DO GOOD IN THE WORLD.
AND IF ANYBODY IS GOING TO MAKE IT TO GROUP -- DO GOOD IN THE
WORLD, THERE IS THAT FLEXIBILITY, IT WILL BE HIM.
>> THERE IS ANOTHER ASPECT. YOU HAVE A LOVELY LANGUAGE.
AND YOU SOMETIMES CREATE ACRONYMS.
WHITE LIBERALS. YOU SAID THEY WERE ON YOUR
SIDE. YOU SAID THEY THINK ALL THE
WORLD'S PROBLEMS CAN BE SOLVED WITH A COST.
WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT. THIS IS YOU.
THERE IS A LOT TO BE SAID FOR SACRIFICE REMORSE, EVEN PITY.
IT IS WHAT SEPARATES US FROM ROACHES.
>> YOU ARE GOING TO BE ADDRESSING THE CROWD OF WHITE
LIBERALS HERE IN JACKSON. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK OF
THEM? >> FIRST OF ALL, AS I
MENTIONED ALREADY -- I AM GOING TO STICK WITH YOUR QUESTION.
I WOULD SAY, YOU DON'T GO TO THE
NOMINATION AND VISIT AS THEY'RE GUEST -- EVEN IF YOU KEEP IT TO
YOURSELF, LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO THE NATIVE AMERICANS.
AND STILL, ESPECIALLY IN THE 19th CENTURY AND EARLIER.
THE 20th CENTURY HAS BEEN FRAUGHT WITH PROBLEMS.
I DON'T -- EYE JUST THINK THERE IS A HISTORY TO SUFFERING.
THERE IS A TRAUMATIC HISTORY OF SUFFERING.
REMORSE, THIS IS A SOUND DIAGNOSIS TO WHAT HAPPENED.
SINCE TONIGHT, I WILL BE SPEAKING TO WHITE LIBERALS.
IT CHAT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL. I TEACH AT HARVARD.
A LOT OF THE PEOPLE I REGARD AS FUNDAMENTALLY ALLIES.
WHAT I WILL SAY TO THEM TONIGHT IS, WE ARE NOT ASKING YOU
NECESSARILY TO PACK UP, AND WHAT
DOES JESUS SAY, SELL ALL YOUR BELONGINGS AND GET ON BOARD.
WE DON'T ASK PEOPLE TO DO THAT. THAT CAN BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
>> SO YOU WON'T BE SHOULD -- SELLING ANYTHING IN THE LOBBY?
>> NO. WE WILL BE SAYING, YOU CAN BE
PART OF THIS EFFORT TO MAKE THE WORLD HAVE LESS VIOLENCE
AGAINST POOR PEOPLE.
AND I'M NOT TALKING JUST ABOUT VIOLENCE LIKE HITTING THEM ON
THE HEAD WITH A HAMMER. I'M TALKING ABOUT DYING OF
UNTREATED DISEASE. CHILDREN DYING.
YOUR MOTHER DYING IN CHILDBIRTH.
>> HOW DO YOU SEE PARTNERS IN HEALTH MAKING ITS MISSION A
LASTING ONE? ONE THAT WILL GO BEYOND THE
FOUNDERS? >> I HOPE IT HAS ALREADY GONE
BEYOND THE FOUNDERS. MY SENSE IS THAT IT HAS.
I WOULD SAY THE MOST IMPORTANT INGREDIENT FOR THAT IS
PARTNERSHIP. PUBLIC AND PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP.
AND THE TRAINING IN CONNECTION WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.
>> HOW DO MOST YOUNG PEOPLE HERE ABOUT YOU?
>> I THINK A VARIETY OF WAYS. THE INNER TUBES IS A GOOD WAY
TO HEAR ABOUT ANYTHING THESE DAYS.
>> THE ROCK GROUP. >> THE CANADIAN ROCK GROUP.
>> I THINK THERE IS A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS.
SOME OF THEM ARE STUDENTS OR COLLEAGUES OF OURS.
THEY COME IN AND THERE IS THIS QUALITY OF PEOPLE WANTING TO NO
SOMETHING. >> PAUL, YOU HAVE SPENT MANY
HOURS HIKING THE HILLS OF HAITI FOR ONE SINGLE PATIENT.
OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT ON WHAT YOU
MIGHT CALL, A SMALLER SCALE. HOW DO YOU SEE PARTNERS IN
HEALTH ON THE LARGER SCALE? >> NOW THAT WE ARE WORKING IN
12 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, -- >> CLONING ASIDE.
>> EXACTLY. TWO YEARS AGO, WE FACED THIS
CHOICE. DO WE WANT TO GO FROM 12 UP TO
24 DIFFERENT SITES WHERE WE TAKE
PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY FOR OPERATIONS?
RESOURCES AND EVERYTHING. I THOUGHT MANY OF US FELT THAT
WAS NOT THE WAY TO DO THE NEXT 25 YEARS.
BUT AGAIN, TO LEVERAGE THE SERVICE PROJECTS WE HAD WITH
STRONG TRAINING PROGRAMS AS WE SAID.
AND TOO FIND OUT ALSO, HOW ARE WE DOING?
WHAT IS THE QUALITY OF THE CANCER CARE?
HOW ARE THE TRAINING PROGRAMS FOR NURSES GOING?
TO REALLY TAKE A HARD LOOK. AND SPEND THE NEXT FEW YEARS
IMPROVING THE QUALITY AND SERVICES THAT WE ARE PROVIDING.
AND WHEN ICE A SERVICE, WE NOW MEAN THE TRAINING PROGRAMS AS
PART OF THE TRAINING PROGRAMS. I THINK THAT IS WHAT PARTNERS
IN HEALTH NEEDS TO BE.
IT NEEDS TO BE A LEARNING -- A LEARNING ORGANIZATION AND A
TEACHING ORGANIZATION. AND IT CAN'T JUST BE MY
STUDENTS FROM HARVARD.
>> DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE THE SAME KIND OF ATMOSPHERE FOR
THAT MORALITY MIXED IN WITH
PRACTICALITY? BECAUSE CLEARLY THAT IS A
VISION THAT YOU AS FOUNDERS BROUGHT TO
THIS. AND THOSE TO SUCCEED YOU
CLEARLY WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME LIFE
STORY. >> I THINK IT IS HARD TO
UNTANGLE THE TUBE. I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO BE
HEAVY-HANDED. I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO SAY,
ARE YOU WELL ENOUGH TO DO THIS WORK?
IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THIS WORK, MY GUESS IS THAT IT FEELS
A LITTLE TOO CONTRITE TWO- PIECE
SET APART. >> NOT LONG AGO, YOU OPENED
THE FIRST CANCER CARE FACILITY IN RWANDA.
A NEW HOSPITAL IN HAITI ALSO. AND IT HAS TEACHING AND IS A
MODERN FACILITY. LOOKING BACK TO 25 YEARS AGO,
DID EITHER OF YOU THINK IT WOULD
HAPPEN OR TURNOUT LIKE THIS? >> I HOPED IT WOULD.
FOR ME, IT HAS BEEN MORE OF A GRADUAL PROGRESSION OF VISION
IN SOME WAY.
SAYING THAT AS AN 18-YEAR-OLD, BEING IN THE CENTER OF A SLUM
IN PORT-AU-PRINCE, HAD A IMAGINE A
HOSPITAL SOMEWHERE? PROBABLY NOT.
BUT DID I KNOW VERY YOUNG THAT THIS WOULD BLOSSOM AND GROW?
IF WE DID A GOOD ENOUGH JOB OF BRINGING PEOPLE ON BOARD, YES.
>> YES. AINU.
AINU -- IT SOUNDS WILLFUL AND ARROGANT.
BACK TO THE METAPHOR THAT YOU USED.
IF YOU ARE A LOVER OF TREES AND YOU PLANT IN ACORN, YOU KNOW
THAT IT WILL SPROUT INTO A GIANT
OAK TREE. THIS IS WHAT THIS NEEDS TO BE.
A VERY HEALTHY GROWING TREE. I'M NOT GOING TO BEAT THIS
METAPHOR TO DEATH. BUT YOU CAN'T DELIVER
HIGH-QUALITY MEDI-CAL -- MEDICAL
CARE, IN POOR PLACES. YOU HAVE TO HAVE GOOD
HOSPITALS. YOU HAVE TO HAVE CANCER CARE
BECAUSE THERE IS CANCER. ALL OF THESE THINGS, BECAUSE
THEY ARE DIFFICULT, THEY STILL ARE NOT AS GRAND AS PEOPLE
THINK. THEY ARE NECESSARY IF WE ARE
GOING TO TAKE ON THE HEALTHCARE PROBLEMS OF THE POOR.
>> DR. PAUL FARMER AND OPHELIA DAHL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU. >> IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW
MORE ABOUT THE WORK OF PARTNERS IN HEALTH, YOU CAN FIND A LINK
ON OUR WEBSITE AT WYOMING PBS.ORG.
>> WE WILL CLOSE WITH THE MUSIC THAT HAS HELPED IN THE
OUTREACH WITH PARTNERS IN HEALTH.
>> 跋 MUSIC ]