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>> GREETINGS, MY NAME'S AZIZI JASPER,
AND I'M HERE WITH MR. JEFF CHANG, AUTHOR OF "CAN'T STOP WON'T STOP."
UH, WE ARE GOING TO GET INTO IT.
HE IS OUR SPEAKER FOR THE DIVERSITY LECTURE SERIES
THIS YEAR AT GRCC.
UM, SO, HIP-HOP.
IT STARTED OUT AS A BLACK AND BROWN NEW YORK STREET THING,
AND IT GREW TO THE EXTENT THAT KIDS IN JAPAN
ARE B-BOYING AND DOING GRAPH ART,
THERE'S STATUES OF TUPAC IN AFRICA, THERE ARE COURSES BEING TAUGHT ON HIP-HOP,
OUR FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH EVEN SAID THAT THE MOST HURTFUL THING
IN THE PAST EIGHT YEARS THAT HE EXPERIENCED
WAS KANYE SAYING THAT HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE.
UM...
MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHAT DOES HIP-HOP MEAN,
AS FAR AS RACE RELATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY?
AND MORE SPECIFICALLY, SOMEBODY COMING FROM HAWAII.
>> MMM-HMM. >> WHAT DOES-- HOW DID IT PULL YOU IN?
WHAT WAS THE DRAW? >> YEAH-- WOW.
YOU'RE STARTING WITH THE BIG QUESTIONS. (both laughing)
SO, I-- YOU KNOW, I...
I WAS A LITTLE KID GROWING UP IN HONOLULU, HAWAII,
UM, WHEN I FIRST HEARD "RAPPER'S DELIGHT,"
AND JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER KID AT MY SCHOOL,
I WANTED TO LEARN ALL THE LYRICS TO IT, YOU KNOW, AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT.
AND, UH... AS I MOVED ALONG,
THERE WAS A WHOLE BUNCH OF HIP-HOPSPLOITATION MOVIES
THAT KINDA CAME OUT. >> SURE.
>> AS YOU PROBABLY REMEMBER-- LIKE, THE EARLY '80s--
>> "KRUSH GROOVE," UH-- >> YEAH, "KRUSH GROOVE,"
BUT BEFORE THAT, THERE WAS LIKE "BEAT STREET" AND "BREAKIN'."
"BREAKIN'" WAS ACTUALLY BIG IN HAWAII BECAUSE IT WAS-- IN L.A.--
AND SOME OF THOSE DANCERS THAT WERE IN "BREAKIN'"
USED TO COME BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN L.A. AND HAWAII AND...
KINDA GOT THE DANCING STARTED UP IN HONOLULU.
SO, UH-- AND THEN, "WILD STYLE" AND "STYLE WARS" CAME OUT,
AND THOSE ARE SORTA THE "HOLY GRAIL" FOR ME AND MY LITTLE CREW OF FOLKS.
UM, BUT FOR ME, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP IN HAWAII--
MAJORITY, MINORITY, WHATEVER THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
UH, STATE-- UM, THE FIRST IN THE U.S.
AND YET, THE IMAGES THAT YOU SAW ON T.V.
WHERE STILL LARGELY OF SUBURBAN WHITE KIDS IN CALIFORNIA.
SO, TO BE ABLE TO SEE THESE KIDS WHO WERE DARKER SKINNED,
HAD THEIR OWN WALK, THEIR OWN TALK, THEIR OWN SWAGGER,
THEIR OWN WAY OF DOING THINGS, CREATING ART,
THEIR OWN DANCES, THEIR OWN MUSIC-- THAT WAS INCREDIBLY EMPOWERING FOR ME.
AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS SORT OF--
I COULDN'T ARTICULATE IT AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT,
BUT I THINK THAT WAS A LOT OF THE ATTRACTION OF IT TO ME
AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT HAPPENED, I THINK, SIMULTANEOUSLY FOR A LOT OF FOLKS
ALL AROUND THE WORLD DURING THOSE YEARS FROM LIKE, SAY, '79 TO LIKE '89.
AND I THINK BY THE TIME '87, '88, '89 HIT,
A LOT OF US WERE MOVING INTO COLLEGE
AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE HEARING THINGS LIKE ERIC B. & RAKIM
AND PUBLIC ENEMY AND K.R.S. AND M.C. LYTE AND LATIFAH
AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER FOLKS,
AND THAT WAS SORT OF THE SOUNDTRACK TO OUR COLLEGE YEARS AND OUR ACTIVISM.
AND, UM, SO, I JUST KIND OF GREW UP WITH IT IN THAT WAY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> AND, UM...
AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS HAPPENING SIMULTANEOUSLY IN OTHER COUNTRIES AS WELL,
BECAUSE THROUGH THE '80s, THERE WAS MORE AND MORE OF HIP-HOP
THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED VIA THE MEDIA,
AND YOU COULD INCREASINGLY FIND, LIKE, THAT RARE RECORD STORE
WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY GET THE RECORDS AND THE CASSETTES,
AND PEOPLE WOULD TAPE IT FOR EACH OTHER, AND--
>> RIGHT. >> "STYLE WARS" AIRED ONE TIME
ON THE LOCAL P.B.S. STATION,
AND I JUST REMEMBER A COPY OF THIS--
OF "STYLE WARS" GOING AROUND THE ISLAND. >> (laughing).
>> AND YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY HAD THE--
"OH, YOU HAVE THE SAME COPY?" "OH, YEAH, LOOK IT!"
YOU KNOW, "IT KINDA BLURS OUT HERE."
YOU KNOW, LIKE, PEOPLE FIDGETING WITH THE RABBIT EARS OR WHATEVER,
AND NOW I'M SOUNDING REALLY OLD, I KNOW, BUT...
>> (laughing). >> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
THAT WAS LIKE-- YEAH, THAT WAS THE ONE CASSETTE THAT GOT DUBBED AND RE-DUBBED
AND GOT SENT ALL AROUND. >> RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.
WHAT'S MORE HIP-HOP THAN THAT, THOUGH? >> IT'S TRUE.
I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF FUNNY IN THAT SENSE.
IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN NOWADAYS WHERE--
YOU KNOW, I'M TEACHING A CLASS NOW AT STANFORD,
AND SO, WE DO SPOTIFY PLAYLISTS AND I GIVE 'EM OLD,
YOU KNOW, PRE-'79 MIXED TAPES TO LISTEN TO.
AND YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL SO EASILY AVAILABLE.
THEY CAN JUST-- I CAN PUT IT UP IN MY DROPBOX,
THEY CAN DOWNLOAD IT, YOU KNOW,
WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT ALL, EVERYTHING'S ON YOUTUBE.
>> MMM-HMM. >> UM, BUT BACK THEN, AS YOU KNOW,
YOU HAD TO REALLY KINDA-- YOU HAD TO HUNT IT DOWN...
>> SURE. >> YOU HAD TO BE-- BOUGHT IT,
YOU WERE REALLY OBSESSED WITH TRYING TO GET ALL THE DETAILS
OF IT RIGHT, AND, UH...
AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT
IN ITS OWN SORT OF TERMS OF AUTHENTICITY, I THINK, SO...
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I MEAN, I REMEMBER WHAT WAS REALLY BIG FOR ME
WAS, YOU KNOW, GETTING A TAPE AND OPENING THE LINER NOTES...
>> YEAH!
>> AND SEEING, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE ARTIST WAS TALKING ABOUT.
OR, YOU KNOW, WHO THEY WERE THANKING,
AND IF YOU WERE LUCKY, THEY HAD THE LYRICS ON THEM.
YOU KNOW, YOU COULD READ THE LYRICS.
AND NOW, EVERYTHING IS, LIKE YOU SAID, SPOTIFY
AND, YOU KNOW, YOUTUBE AND ONLINE.
UM, HOW DO YOU FEEL THAT TECHNOLOGY AND ADVANCES IN TECHNOLOGY--
UM, MAINLY EVERYTHING BEING AVAILABLE, YOU KNOW, AT A CLICK OF A BUTTON--
HOW DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S AFFECTED HIP-HOP?
DO YOU THINK IT'S BROUGHT ABOUT A GREATER APPRECIATION
OR DO YOU THINK IT'S WATERED IT DOWN?
>> HUH, THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING QUESTION.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, HIP-HOP AND TECHNOLOGY--
THAT'S LIKE A WHOLE SORT OF DISCUSSION, RIGHT?
JUST HOW TECHNOLOGY ENABLED--
SO THE RE-CREATION OF THESE CULTURAL PRACTICES
THAT GO LITERALLY, YOU KNOW, BACK TO AFRICA,
AND THEN GETS DISPERSED BY SLAVERY ALL THROUGHOUT THE DIASPORA.
>> SURE. >> AND THEN WHEN, YOU KNOW,
TURNTABLES COME ALONG, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ABLE TO RECREATE,
YOU KNOW, THESE PRACTICES OF FINDING THESE BEATS THAT KIND OF MATCH...
UM... UH...
YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING
IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES SIMULTANEOUSLY.
UM, SO, ROCKERS, YOU KNOW, IN JAMAICA
HAS RESONANCES WITH HIP-HOP, AT THAT POINT.
OR YOU COULD LOOK AT SAMBA
OR, YOU KNOW, NORDESTINO MUSIC IN BRAZIL AT THE SAME POINT.
OR CARNIVAL MUSIC IN TRINIDAD OR NEW ORLEANS,
AND YOU COULD SEE ALL THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF LINKAGES,
AND BE LIKE, "OH, MARDI GRAS INDIANS!
"OH, B-BOYS AND B-GIRLS!
"OH, I GET IT," YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE, THAT'S PART OF THE REALLY INTERESTING THING
ABOUT THAT TECHNOLOGY DID, IN THAT SENSE.
I THINK IT'S KIND OF, IN THAT WAY, UNDERRATED, YOU KNOW?
UM, WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT HOW SAMPLING TECHNOLOGY
ALLOWED PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO ADVANCE THE CRAFT,
BUT WE DON'T ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT HOW THESE CRAFTS,
LIKE, EXTEND BACK THOUSANDS OF YEARS, RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> UM, BEFORE THE MIDDLE PASSAGE.
SO, I THINK THAT THAT'S-- I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.
UM, WHAT I THINK HAS HAPPENED NOW
IS THAT TECHNOLOGY IN THE LAST TEN YEARS
HAS BEEN THIS REALLY DISRUPTIVE FORCE FOR THE MUSIC INDUSTRY.
AND IN A LOT OF WAYS, THE MUSIC INDUSTRY HASN'T FIGURED OUT, STILL,
HOW TO ACTUALLY WORK WITH THAT. >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> IN FACT, THERE'S KIND OF A HISTORY OF THE MUSIC INDUSTRY
BEING VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH NEW TECHNOLOGIES, YOU KNOW,
GOING ALL THE WAY BACK, RIGHT?
UM, SO...
SO THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD SEE HIP-HOP
GETTING UP IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY'S FACE
OVER AND OVER AGAIN, YOU KNOW, FROM, LIKE, IN THE 2000s,
YOU COULD TALK ABOUT HOW THEY STARTED RAIDING D.J. DRAMA'S PAD
AND TRYING TO SQUASH THE MIXED TAPE INDUSTRY.
>> SURE. >> UM...
AND YOU KNOW, AND THEN, TRYING TO DO 360 DEALS, UM,
AND ARTISTS KIND OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO BUILD THEIR OWN AUDIENCES
VIA THE INTERNET IS SORT OF WHAT'S LED, I THINK, TO THIS NEW WAVE OF ARTISTS
WHO ARE IN THEIR 20s. >> DEFINITELY.
>> BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN "THE BOOK" CAME OUT--
"THE BOOK" CAME OUT IN 2005, AND I REMEMBER I WAS TALKING ABOUT IT
FOR THREE, FOUR, FIVE YEARS AFTERWARDS,
AND IT WOULD BE DEPRESSING BECAUSE YOU'D TALK ABOUT IT TO STUDENTS,
AND STUDENTS HAD--
YOUNG FOLKS HAD A STRONG SENSE OF NOSTALGIA FOR THE '90s...
>> RIGHT. >> BECAUSE ALL THE ARTISTS, ACTUALLY,
THAT WERE STILL STARS WERE GETTING UP THERE-- THEY WERE IN THEIR 30s.
JAY-Z WAS, YOU KNOW, IN THIS LATE 30s, HEADING UP TO HIS 40s--
>> PROCLAIMING IT WAS "THE NEW 20." >> EXACTLY, YEAH!
AND THAT WAS SORT OF A WEIRD KIND OF THING,
WHEREAS IN OTHER MUSIC GENRES,
YOU STILL HAD FRESH, YOU KNOW, YOUNG FACES COMING IN.
UM, AND SO-- AND THAT WAS BECAUSE THE INDUSTRY--
THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE THAT HAD BEEN SET UP TO DEVELOP YOUNG ARTISTS
HAD BEEN COMPLETELY WIPED OUT DURING MEDIA CONSOLIDATION.
AND SO, THESE ARTISTS LITERALLY HAD TO REFORMULATE THEIR AUDIENCES FROM SCRATCH.
AND I THINK IT WAS IN THE LATE 2000s THAT YOU SAW FOLKS LIKE DRAKE,
UM, WHO ARE ABLE TO DO THAT-- WIZ KHALIFA. >> SOULJA BOY.
>> YOU KNOW, A LOT OF OTHER FOLKS WHO ARE KINDA COMING UP
AND MAKING THOSE BREAKTHROUGHS-- NICKI MINAJ--
MAKING THOSE BREAKTHROUGHS WHERE THE INDUSTRY WAS JUST LIKE, "OH, YEAH,
"WE DO HAVE TO SELL HIP-HOP TO KIDS."
IT IS ACTUALLY A YOUTH CULTURE. >> SURE.
>> UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW-- BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY INSPIRING NOW
TO SEE GROUPS LIKE, SAY, THE COUP OR BLUE SCHOLARS,
YOU KNOW, UP ON KICKSTARTER,
YOU KNOW, DOING THEIR OWN--
CREATING THEIR OWN SORT OF SELF-DETERMINATION
WITHIN THE INDUSTRY,
BUILDING THEIR OWN SORT OF FINANCIAL BASE
AND SORT OF, YOU KNOW, WORKING THROUGH WITH THEIR AUDIENCES,
UM, HOW TO CREATE THE MUSIC ON THEIR OWN TERMS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
UM, SWITCHING GEARS A LITTLE BIT FROM THE MUSIC SIDE OF THINGS
TO THE CULTURAL SIDE OF THINGS-- >> YEAH, MMM-HMM.
>> UM, THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
HAS A HISTORY OF BAMBOOZLING, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM,
MINORITIES. >> MMM-HMM.
>> FROM TUSKEGEE EXPERIMENT TO "COINTELPRO,"
THE CRACK EPIDEMIC, UM--
YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN TANGIBLE EXAMPLES
AS TO WHY BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY SHOULD--
COULD POSSIBLY BE HESITANT AS FAR AS TRUSTING THE GOVERNMENT IS CONCERNED.
>> MMM-HMM. >> UM, MANY ARTISTS
FEEL THIS SORT OF AMBIVALENCE IN PARTICIPATING
IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS BECAUSE OF THIS.
UH, THERE'S A FEELING OF MISTRUST.
UM, RECENTLY, LUPE CAME OUT UNDER A LOT OF SCRUTINY--
AND THIS HAPPENS TO HIM EVERY ELECTION SEASON.
>> RIGHT. >> I REMEMBER IT LAST SEASON
IT HAPPENED AS WELL.
UM, AND HE SAID THAT HE DOESN'T VOTE, AND HE SPOKE OUT AGAINST VOTING.
UM, AND KENDRICK LAMAR, YOU KNOW, ECHOED CERTAIN SENTIMENTS.
AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS,
WHAT DO YOU VIEW AS THE HIP-HOP GENERATION'S ROLE
IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS-- PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE?
UM, DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S--
THAT HIP-HOP HAS ALWAYS BEEN A SORT OF COUNTER-CULTURE SORT OF THING?
IS IT NOT OUR THING
TO BECOME A PART OF THE MAINSTREAM IN POLITICS, AND EMBRACE THAT?
OR ARE WE THIRD PARTY? >> MMM-HMM.
>> YOU KNOW, WHAT'S OUR TAKE ON THAT?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY INTERESTING
BECAUSE AROUND THE TURN OF THE MILLENNIUM--
THE LATE '90s--
UH, YOU STARTED SEEING THIS INCREASE
IN POLICIES THAT--
WELL, MOVING FROM THE '80s INTO THE END OF THE MILLENNIUM,
THERE WAS A HUGE GROWTH IN THE CRIMINALIZATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE,
PARTICULARLY YOUNG PEOPLE OF COLOR.
AND IT'S EVIDENT IN TERMS OF THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO BEGAN TO BE INCARCERATED.
THAT'S WHEN THE GRAPH STARTS TO TAKE OFF LIKE THIS.
>> RIGHT. >> LARGELY YOUNG FOLKS,
LARGELY FOLKS OF COLOR, LARGELY URBAN FOLKS, RIGHT?
UM, AND IT WAS NO MISTAKE.
I MEAN, THERE WAS LITERALLY "TOUGH ON CRIME" LEGISLATION
THAT WAS PUSHED THROUGH NOT JUST BY REPUBLICANS
BUT ALSO BY BILL CLINTON AND THE DEMOCRATS DURING THIS ERA,
UM, THAT WAS KINDA FOSTERING, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THIS--
YOU KNOW, THIS SORT OF WHAT WE CALLED THEN "THE WAR ON YOUTH."
UM, IT WAS SORT OF PROVOKING THE FEAR OF YOUNG BODIES OF COLOR,
YOUNG MEN OF COLOR, YOUNG WOMEN OF COLOR...
TO GET VOTES.
AND THOSE LAWS BEGAN TO PASS.
AND WHAT YOU HAD HAPPENING IN THE LATE 1990s,
GOING INTO THE NEW MILLENNIUM, WAS STUDENTS BEGAN TO--
AND YOUNG PEOPLE BEGAN TO ORGANIZE AROUND HIP-HOP.
SO, THEY CALLED THEMSELVES "HIP-HOP ACTIVISTS."
AND SO, I WAS PRIVY TO SEE,
LIKE, THIS MASSIVE SORT OF NEW GENERATION OF FOLKS
ORGANIZING AROUND THIS PROPOSITION THAT WAS CALLED "PROP 21" IN CALIFORNIA,
THAT WAS LITERALLY JUST ABOUT CRIMINALIZING
ALL KINDS OF FORMS OF...
OF YOUTH CRIMES-- TO TRY AND TRY THE YOUNG PEOPLE AS ADULTS,
TRYING TO MAKE GRAFFITI A "THIRD STRIKE," ALL THESE DIFFERENT KINDS OF THINGS,
AND A WHOLE GENERATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE--
UH, VAN JONES IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE,
UM, WHO'S NOW A REALLY AMAZING PROGRESSIVE ACTIVIST
IN THE NATIONAL SCENE.
UM, A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE KINDA CAME OUT OF THAT PARTICULAR ERA.
AND WHAT HAPPENED IS, AS THE DECADE PROGRESSED,
FROM 2000 TO 2008,
WHAT YOU SAW WAS AN INCREASED INTEREST IN, "OKAY, WE GOT SOME CULTURAL POWER
"VIA HIP-HOP NOW, YOU KNOW?
"HOW DO WE LEVERAGE THAT INTO GETTING POLITICAL POWER?"
AND SO, IN 2004,
THERE WAS SOMETHING CALLED "THE HIP HOP POLITICAL CONVENTION"--
"THE NATIONAL HIP HOP POLITICAL CONVENTION,"
ORGANIZED BY A GROUP OF ACTIVISTS AROUND THE COUNTRY--
BAKARI KITWANA FROM OHIO,
ROSA CLEMENTE WAS ANOTHER PERSON,
RAS BARAKA FROM NEWARK-- A WHOLE BUNCH OF FOLKS, REALLY--
BAYE ADOFO FROM NEWARK-- A WHOLE BUNCH OF FOLKS, NATIONALLY--
DAVEY D FROM THE BAY AREA--
UM, CAME TOGETHER AND FORMED THIS NATIONAL HIP-HOP POLITICAL CONVENTION.
THE IDEA WAS "GO BACK AND REGISTER YOUNG PEOPLE TO VOTE."
AND ALL THESE ORGANIZATIONS KIND OF GOT STARTED OUT OF THAT AND ALONGSIDE IT.
SO, YOU SAW RUSSELL SIMMONS AND DIDDY,
LIKE, STARTING UP THEIR OWN SORT OF POLITICAL TYPES OF EFFORTS--
HIP-HOP SUMMIT ACTION NETWORK, "VOTE OR DIE."
AND, UH, WHAT YOU HAD WAS BETWEEN 2004 AND 2008,
MOST OF THE INCREASES--
THE OVERALL NUMBER OF INCREASES IN THE YOUTH VOTE
WERE AMONG YOUNG BLACK, BROWN,
AND YELLOW KIDS.
>> MMM-HMM. >> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE, YOU COULD LOOK AT IT AND SEE HOW THE ENTIRETY--
ALMOST THE ENTIRETY OF THE NEW VOTING POPULATION--
THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE 4.5 MILLION NEW VOTERS
IN THAT ERA
WERE OF COLOR AND MOSTLY URBAN.
AND YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THE-- THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DIDN'T DO THAT,
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DIDN'T DO THAT.
HIP-HOP KINDA DID THAT.
AND I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW--
AND SO, THEY-- IN THAT SENSE,
THEY PROVIDED THE BASIS OF THE MARGIN OF VICTORY
FOR BARACK OBAMA IN 2008.
SO, WHAT I THINK IS HAPPENING NOW IN 2012
IS YOU HAVE A LOT OF FOLKS GOING BACK AND SAYING, "WOW, WE DID ALL OF THIS,
"BUT WHAT'S COME OF IT?" YOU KNOW?
AND I THINK THAT THIS IS WHERE THE DEBATE IS
AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT.
UM, WE'RE NOW ABOUT A MONTH OUT FROM THE 2012 ELECTION.
>> SURE. >> AND THERE'S A HUGE DEBATE HAPPENING
AMONGST 20 YEAR OLDS ABOUT "SHOULD WE ENGAGE OR SHOULD WE NOT ENGAGE?
"WE ENGAGED LAST TIME.
"WE REALLY, LIKE-- WE PUT IT DOWN...
"AND YET, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO SHOW FOR IT?"
>> RIGHT. >> AND I THINK THAT,
COMBINED WITH, YOU KNOW, THE SKEPTICISM THAT YOU HAD
FROM THOSE WHO ARE NOW IN THEIR 30s, RIGHT,
AND THEIR EARLY 40s, THAT'S CREATED QUITE A REALLY INTERESTING DYNAMIC.
>> DEFINITELY.
>> AND WE'RE KIND OF, AGAIN, AT THAT TURNING POINT
WHERE PEOPLE ARE GONNA KINDA TRY TO FIGURE OUT, LIKE, "SHOULD WE ENGAGE?
"HOW DO WE ENGAGE?"
THE ONE THING THAT IS FOR SURE
IS THAT THERE'S NOW A NUMBER OF NEW ELECTED OFFICIALS
WHO ARE IN THEIR LATE 20s AND EARLY 30s.
>> RIGHT. >> WE'VE HAD SOME
THAT ARE FLAMED OUT, RIGHT? (laughing)
WE DON'T NEED TO GO INTO ANY KIND OF SPECIFIC DETAILS,
BUT EVERYBODY WHO LIVES IN MICHIGAN KNOWS, RIGHT?
WE'VE HAD FOLKS WHO HAVE KINDA FLAMED OUT--
>> SOME OF US STILL HAVEN'T. (laughing)
>> RIGHT, AND SO, YEAH-- AND A LOT OF FOLKS
WHO ARE STILL ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS WHO--
UM, BUT ANYWAY, YOU KNOW, MY POINT IS, AT SOME POINT,
WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CHANGE THINGS.
>> SURE. >> MY WORK HAS MOVED TOWARDS,
LIKE, TALKING ABOUT CULTURE--
THE ROLE OF ART AND CULTURE IN CHANGING PEOPLE'S MINDS
AND MOVING PEOPLE'S HEARTS.
UM...
AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND, POLITICALLY,
WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF STRATEGIES THAT WE NEED TO DO
FOR OUR GENERATION TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THINGS.
>> SURE.
UM, I THINK YOU TOUCHED ON SOMETHING IMPORTANT,
AND ONE OF MY BIGGEST GRIPES ABOUT THE HIP-HOP GENERATION
VERSUS, SAY, THE CIVIL RIGHTS GENERATION
IS WE ARE THE GENERATION OF INSTANT GRATIFICATION.
WE'RE THE MICROWAVE GENERATION. >> (chuckling).
>> WE WANTED OBAMA TO CHANGE EVERYTHING WITHIN THE FIRST TWO MONTHS OF OFFICE
AND, LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE GAVE HIM A YEAR,
AND NOW WE'RE FRUSTRATED. >> (laughing).
>> YOU KNOW, THREE YEARS LATER, LIKE, THIS IS JUST RIDICULOUS.
I THOUGHT I'D BE RICH BY NOW, YOU KNOW? >> (laughing) RIGHT.
>> WELL, WE LIVE IN SUCH AN INSTANT GRATIFICATION SOCIETY
AND, TO A GREAT EXTENT, HIP-HOP WAS A CATALYST FOR THAT
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HIP-HOPPERS-- WE SAID, "OKAY, YOU KNOW,
"MY PARENTS MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO SEND ME TO JUILLIARD, PER SE,
"BUT THERE IS THIS REFRIGERATOR BOX AT THE BOTTOM OF MY STOOP
"YOU KNOW, THAT THE PEOPLE CAN, YOU KNOW, SURROUND THEMSELVES, AND I CAN DANCE ON.
"YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AFFORD THE BEST EASELS AND PAINT
"UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THAT ABANDONED BUILDING AROUND THE CORNER,
"YOU KNOW, THAT"-- YOU KNOW, WE FIGURED OUT HOW TO DO SOMETHING,
HOW TO MAKE THE BEST OUT OF OUR SITUATION IN THE MOMENT,
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S THE DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD
OF THE HIP-HOP GENERATION
IS THAT WE'RE VERY IMPATIENT. >> YEAH.
>> WE'RE VERY IMPATIENT WITH THE GOVERNMENT,
WE'RE IMPATIENT WITH OUR SURROUNDINGS. >> MMM-HMM.
>> WHEREAS THE HIP-HOP GENERATION UNDERSTOOD--
ER, EXCUSE ME, THE CIVIL RIGHTS GENERATION UNDERSTOOD THAT EVERYTHING WAS A PROCESS
AND EVERYTHING TOOK TIME. >> MMM-HMM.
>> UM, WHAT-- I GUESS I WOULD ASK,
TO SEGUE THAT WITH THE "OCCUPY" MOVEMENT--
UM...
RUSSELL SIMMONS WAS A MAJOR SUPPORTER OF THAT,
UM, JAY-Z RECENTLY CAME OUT AND SAID THAT HE DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IT,
UM, RUSSELL BLASTED BACK AND SAID THAT, YOU KNOW,
THIS IS ABOUT THE POOR PEOPLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME,
RUSSELL CAME OUT WITH A RUSHCARD. >> MMM-HMM, MMM-HMM.
>> WHAT IS HIP-HOP'S ROLE, AS FAR AS THE "OCCUPY" MOVEMENT?
IS THE "OCCUPY" MOVEMENT STILL RELEVANT?
UM, IS THAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HIP-HOP TO, UM...
YOU KNOW, PERHAPS FORM A MAJOR THIRD PARTY?
OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT'S JUST A PASSING FAD, IN YOUR ESTIMATION?
>> UM, YOU KNOW...
I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAD, AND HAS--
CONTINUES TO HAVE A LOT OF POTENTIAL AS A LOCAL MOVEMENT.
UM, I'M FROM THE BAY AREA,
AND SO, IN THE BAY AREA, IT HAS A DIFFERENT LOOK.
>> MMM-HMM. >> THE "OCCUPY" MOVEMENT THERE
HAS A DIFFERENT LOOK.
UM, AND IT'S MUCH MORE ALIGNED WITH, I THINK, YOU KNOW,
LONGSTANDING RACIAL JUSTICE ORGANIZATIONS,
AND SORT OF TRENDS OF RESISTANT MOV--
RESISTANCE MOVEMENTS, EXCUSE ME, AND ACTIVISM...
UM, AND UNION MOVEMENT WORK AS WELL.
AND SO, IN OAKLAND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE "BOOTS" RILEY FROM THE COUP
ARE PROMINENT.
THEY'RE PROMINENT SPOKESPEOPLE.
AND "BOOTS" DIDN'T GO IN SAYING, YOU KNOW,
"I HAVE TO STAND FOR LEADERSHIP HERE."
HE SORT OF GOT BROUGHT UP BY THE PEOPLE.
HE WAS THE PEOPLE'S CHOICE, TO USE (indistinct)'S TERM.
>> RIGHT. >> AND, UM...
AND I THINK HE'S SORT OF REPRESENTED IT VERY, VERY WELL.
IN DIFFERENT LOCALES, IT LOOKS DIFFERENT. >> MMM-HMM.
>> YOU KNOW, AND THERE'S BEEN SORT OF DIFFERENT EFFORTS IN DIFFERENT AREAS
TO INCORPORATE "ON THE GROUND" YOUTH MOVEMENTS
THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN EXISTING,
AND ALSO MOVEMENTS IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR
SUCH AS ANTI-FORECLOSURE MOVEMENTS,
SUCH AS IMMIGRANT RIGHTS AND MIGRANT JUSTICE MOVEMENTS.
UM, THERE'S BEEN, I THINK, A LOT OF CROSS-FERTILIZATION IN SOME AREAS
AND THERE HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH IN OTHER AREAS.
"OCCUPY" IS SOMETHING, THOUGH,
THAT I THINK STEMS FROM THE SAME STRENGTHS OF HIP-HOP.
YOU KNOW, I THINK HIP-HOP DIDN'T BEGIN AS A POLITICAL MOVEMENT
WHERE WE SAID, "WE HAVE A POLITICAL AGENDA."
IT DIDN'T EVEN BEGIN AS A CULTURAL MOVEMENT,
WHERE WE SAID WE HAD A CULTURAL MANIFESTO.
IT BEGAN AS A WAY FOR KIDS TO HAVE FUN, RIGHT?
AND IT DEVELOPED THAT STUFF LATER ON.
AND, UM...
AND IN THAT SENSE, IT WAS ABOUT UNLEASHING PEOPLE'S IMAGINATION.
AND I THINK THAT THE "OCCUPY" MOVEMENT, AT ITS CORE,
IS ABOUT SAYING, "LET'S, LIKE, GET PEOPLE TO SORT OF BREAK FREE
"OF THESE KINDS OF BOXES
"THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED AROUND US,
"AND TO GATHER IN A SPACE
"AND HASH THIS STUFF OUT AND BUILD COMMUNITY,
"REBUILD COMMUNITY FROM THE GROUND UP,"
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S ESSENTIALLY HIP-HOP IN A NUTSHELL,
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?
SO, UM-- SO, I THINK IN THAT SENSE, "OCCUPY" AND HIP-HOP
HAVE A LOT TO SAY TO EACH OTHER,
UM, AND I'M REALLY INTERESTED TO KIND OF SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT,
WHETHER IT GOES FORWARD UNDER THE "OCCUPY" NAME OR NOT.
>> MMM-HMM. >> THE OTHER THING TO SAY IS,
IS NOW WE SPAN THE GENERATIONS, RIGHT?
SO, LIKE, WE'VE GOT-- ON THE TOP END, WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, BAMBAATAA
AND HERC AND FLASH, WHO ARE REALLY, YOU KNOW, BOOMERS.
THEY'RE REALLY BABY BOOMERS AND THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, IN THAT PARTICULAR ERA.
AND THEN, WE'VE GOT THE FOLKS WHO, LIKE CHUCK, RIGHT--
CHUCK D WHO ARE NOW IN THEIR 50s, RIGHT?
WE'VE GOT PARENTS NOW.
WE GOT A WHOLE GENERATION OF HIP-HOP PARENTS.
I GOT TWO KIDS MYSELF.
AND THEN, WE HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE NOW WHO,
LIKE, STILL ADOPT THE MONIKER OF "HIP-HOP,"
YOU KNOW, FROM 12 YEARS OLD ON UP ONTO, YOU KNOW, 29, 30,
WHATEVER ON UP. >> DEFINITELY.
>> SO, WE'VE GOT A HUGE SWATH OF THE POPULATION NOW, RIGHT?
AND I THINK THAT THERE'S A REALLY INTERESTING DISCUSSION
TO BE HAD AMONGST THIS LARGE DEMOGRAPHIC ABOUT "HOW DO WE MAKE THIS BETTER?
"HOW DO WE TRANSFORM THIS...
"SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST HELPING US,
"BUT IT'S HELPING EVERYBODY?" >> SURE.
>> AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE "OCCUPY" SPEAKS TO HIP-HOP...
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE THE BIG QUESTION IS, REALLY,
FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS.
UM, THERE'S GONNA BE SOMEBODY
WHO'S NOW IN THEIR 30s, YOU KNOW, OR 40s,
WHO BECOME BECOMES PRESIDENT AT SOME POINT.
>> RIGHT. >> IS IT GONNA BE A SITUATION
WHERE THAT PERSON IS CARRYING FORTH THE PROGRESSIVE HIP-HOP AGENDA
THAT WE WERE PUSHING BACK IN 2004,
AROUND POLICE BRUTALITY, HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION,
ALL THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS,
OR IS IT GONNA BE SOMEBODY WHO'S SORT OF REPPING THE SAME OLD SYSTEM?
>> RIGHT. >> AND WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT AROUND, SO...
>> SO, SWITCHING GEARS BACK TO THE MUSIC,
UM... >> MMM-HMM.
>> I ALWAYS GO BACK AND FORTH WITH A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE
WHO'S ACTUALLY THE PRESIDENT OF THE GRAND RAPIDS HIPHOP COALITION,
A GUY NAMED VIC WILLIAMS.
UH, HE ALWAYS PROFESSES THAT, YOU KNOW, "HIP-HOP IS LOVE, HIP-HOP IS POSITIVE,
"HIP-HOP IS POSITIVITY."
UM, YOU KNOW, I COUNTER WITH, YOU KNOW, ONE OF MY FAVORITE ALBUMS EVER IS, LIKE,
"INFAMOUS" BY MOBB DEEP, YOU KNOW?
AND YOU KNOW, MY THING IS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU NEED
TO NECESSARILY BE POSITIVE TO CREATE HIP-HOP MUSIC.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE ALL HIP-HOP MUSIC IS POSITIVE.
I THINK IT'S A MIRROR OF SOCIETY. >> MMM-HMM.
>> BUT DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH, ARTISTICALLY SPEAKING,
UM, HIP-HOP ARTISTS HAVE A SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY
TO PROJECT POSITIVITY?
OR DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH THE ART IS SOVEREIGN
AND IT CAN MEAN WHATEVER IT MEANS AS ART?
>> UM, I THINK BOTH.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S SORT OF A LINE BETWEEN THE TWO, YOU KNOW?
HIP-HOP HAS A RESPONSIBLY--
ER, A RESPONSIBILITY-- EXCUSE ME--
HIP-HOP HAS A RESPONSIBILITY...
TO BE DOPE, RIGHT? >> MMM-HMM.
>> I MEAN, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT, YOU KNOW?
UM, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW-- I AGREE WITH YOU IN THE SENSE
THAT SOME OF THE MOST CHALLENGING ART IS SOME OF THE STUFF
THAT'S MAYBE THE UGLIEST TO US. >> RIGHT.
>> UH, FOR ME, ICE CUBE'S "DEATH CERTIFICATE"
WAS LIKE WHAT MOBB DEEP'S "INFAMOUS" WAS FOR YOU.
>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
>> AND SO, I HAD TO LOOK AT THIS ALBUM AND BE LIKE, "WOW.
"WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT?" >> MMM-HMM.
>> I MEAN, THIS IS, LIKE, PERSONALLY, LIKE...
YOU KNOW, UM...
YOU KNOW...
LIKE, IT'S PERSONALLY AFFECTING. >> RIGHT.
>> IT'S PERSONALLY IMPACTING MY FRIENDS
IN A VERY, VERY DEEP WAY.
YOU KNOW, CREATING AMERICAN YOUNG PEOPLE
WHO LIKE SIT BEHIND THE COUNTER AT THESE SHOPS THAT THEIR PARENTS RUN.
>> RIGHT. >> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
WHEN THEIR PARENTS NEED TO GET SOME REST OR THAT KIND OF THING,
AND "HOW DO I DEAL WITH THAT?"
AND DEALING WITH THAT WAS ACTUALLY A REALLY POWERFUL MOMENT FOR ME.
SO, FOR ME, THAT'S LIKE ONE OF THE PIECES OF ART
THAT HAS MOST TRANSFORMED THE WAY THAT IT IS THAT I SEE THE WORLD.
AND, UH...
AND I DON'T THINK THAT EVERY PIECE OF ART NEEDS TO COME DOWN
AND TRANSFORM PEOPLE'S WAY OF SEEING THE WORLD,
YOU KNOW? >> SURE.
>> SOMETIMES, YOU JUST WANNA KICK BACK AND HAVE FUN.
>> DEFINITELY. >> YOU KNOW?
AND, UH-- AND SO, THERE'S A PLACE AND TIME FOR THAT AS WELL.
>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.
UM, I LIKEN IT TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE, THE MONA LISA.
UM, I DON'T THINK SHE WAS AN ATTRACTIVE WOMAN.
(both laughing) BUT IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PAINTING, YOU KNOW?
>> YEAH. (both laughing)
THAT'S A GOOD WAY OF PUTTING IT. >> DEFINITELY.
UM...
ONE OF MY BIGGEST CRITICISMS, I WOULD SAY, OF THE HIP-HOP GENERATION
AND ITS PHILANTHROPISTS... >> HMM.
>> IS THE FACT THAT WE DON'T REALLY MAKE-- LET ME NOT SAY "WE"--
I'M NOT A PHILANTHROPIST.
I'M FAR FROM.
UM, BUT OUR GENERATION... (both chuckling)
OF PHILANTHROPISTS HAS NOT REALLY MADE IT COOL TO GIVE.
UM...
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS-- THE IDEA, OF COURSE, OF "MAKING IT RAIN,"
YOU KNOW, YOU'LL THROW YOUR MONEY UP IN THE CLUB.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S COOL.
BUT YOU KNOW, DONATING TO A CAUSE, YOU KNOW, GETS DONE SILENTLY.
>> MMM-HMM. >> UM...
SPEAK TO HIP-HOP FROM A PHILANTHROPIC STANDPOINT,
WHERE, YOU KNOW-- WHAT IT'S DONE AND WHAT IT CAN DO
AND WAYS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED.
>> WOW, THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING QUESTION.
I NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN THAT SENSE.
BUT, UM...
YOU KNOW, I DEFINITELY THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT.
THERE'S SORT OF THE--
THE MONEY IN THE SORTA CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION TYPE OF WAY, RIGHT?
WHERE-- I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE, RIGHT?
IT'S BEEN THERE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF RAP MUSIC, YOU KNOW?
"RAPPER'S DELIGHT," RIGHT?
"CHECKBOOK, CREDIT CARD, MORE MONEY THAN A SUCKER COULD EVER SPEND," RIGHT?
>> (laughing) RIGHT. >> AND IT'S FUNNY, LIKE,
WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY,
OR IT'S KIND CUTE IN THAT WAY, AND WHEN PEOPLE REALLY START HAVING MONEY
THAT IT SORT OF RAISES A DIFFERENT KIND OF ISSUE, YOU KNOW?
AND THEN, THERE'S EVERYTHING FROM, YOU KNOW, THE SORT OF,
"WELL, YOU SHOULD BE SPENDING YOUR MONEY THIS WAY, TOO."
LIKE, JEALOUSY, RIGHT?
THE JEALOUSY AND ENVY THAT THESE FOLKS, AS INDIVIDUALS,
REALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IN A LOT OF RESPECTS.
SO, UM...
SO, IT'S A VERY INTERESTING THING.
THERE'S NOT BEEN A CONVERSATION WITHIN HIP-HOP ABOUT THAT.
>> MMM-HMM. >> AND SO, THERE'S A--
YOU KNOW, I HAVE THIS BOOK THAT I EDITED CALLED "TOTAL CHAOS,"
AND THERE'S A PERSON NAMED RHA GODDESS, A POET, A THEATRE--
YOU KNOW, A PLAYWRIGHT AND AN ACTRESS AND ACTIVIST
AND A PHILOSOPHER IN THE MOST DEEP KIND OF SENSE,
AND SHE CALLS IT "SCARCITY CONSCIOUSNESS," YOU KNOW?
THAT IF YOU GROW UP WITH SO LITTLE, YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO
WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GET A LOT. >> RIGHT.
>> AND THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY HAMPERING YOU
AND DESTROYING YOU IN MANY TYPES OF WAYS.
SHE HAS THIS AMAZING ESSAY IN THIS BOOK "TOTAL CHAOS"
ABOUT SCARCITY CONSCIOUSNESS,
AND IT REALLY OPENS UP THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION ABOUT CAPITALISM,
ABOUT MONEY, ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY IN THE LONG RUN.
AND SO, I THINK YOUR QUESTION GOES TO THAT,
IN THE LONG RUN-- SUSTAINABILITY--
LIKE, HOW DO WE SUSTAIN THE COMMUNITY? >> RIGHT.
>> UM, YOU KNOW, DO WE DO IT FOR OURSELVES?
DO WE CONSTANTLY GO TO THE BIG FOUNDATIONS TO KINDA DO THAT?
DO WE CONSTANTLY GO TO THE BIG SORTA HOLLYWOOD PHILANTHROPISTS
TO BE ABLE TO DO DIFFERENT KINDS OF STUFF?
YOU KNOW, DO WE GO TO GOVERNMENT TO DO THAT?
AND IT'S A VERY KINDA THICK AND THORNY TYPE OF QUESTION.
I THINK THAT WHAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT, AGAIN, ARE THE SORT OF...
PERSONAL SORT OF BARRIERS THAT FOLKS HAVE TO FACE AROUND THIS.
SO, IF YOU'RE A WEALTHY HIP-HOP PHILANTHROPIST...
YOU COULD GET BESIEGED BY A GAZILLION DIFFERENT TYPES OF ORGANIZATIONS
THAT ARE WORTHY AND UNWORTHY. >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> YOU KNOW, SOME ARE GREAT AND SOME ARE NOT GREAT,
AND HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT?
YOU HAVE TO TREAD LIGHTLY.
YOU HAVE TO KIND OF VERY--
YOU HAVE TO WALK KINDA VERY CAREFULLY WITH THAT, RIGHT?
UM, AND OTHERS HAVE SET UP FOUNDATIONS,
SO THEY CAN KINDA DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THAT,
UM, BUT THE FOUNDATIONS WORK ISN'T NECESSARILY A LOT OF PUBLIC TYPE OF STUFF.
BECAUSE THE SAME ISSUES KINDA COME INTO PLAY, RIGHT?
SO, THERE'S THE PERSONAL STUFF THERE.
I MEAN, THE FUNDAMENTAL, UNDERLYING THING IS
"HOW DO WE ALL KIND OF THINK ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY IN THE LONG RUN?
"AND HOW DO WE BRING ABOUT THAT SHIFT WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE?"
>> RIGHT. >> SO THAT OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT--
OF WHAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THINGS ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL
AND ON A COMMUNITY LEVEL IS SORT OF TRANSFORMED
FROM THIS SORT OF CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION, CAPITALIST MODEL THAT WE HAVE.
>> MMM-HMM... SO, UM, ONE OF MY FAVORITE M.C.s OF ALL TIME
IS LAURYN HILL.
I THINK THAT SHE'S JUST ABSOLUTELY, JUST, PHENOMENAL...
YOU KNOW, IN AND OUT.
AND SINCE THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN, LIKE, A REAL VOID FOR ME,
AS FAR AS A FEMALE PRESENCE-- A POSITIVE FEMALE PRESENCE IN THE GENRE.
YOU HAVE YOUR, YOU KNOW, NICKI MINAJ, OF COURSE,
AND YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF OTHERS,
BUT SINCE LAURYN,
THERE REALLY HASN'T BEEN THAT POSITIVE FEMALE PRESENCE IN THE GENRE.
UM, WHAT IS THE FEMALE ROLE IN HIP-HOP NOW?
IS THERE STILL ROOM FOR--
I MEAN, THERE'S DEFINITELY ROOM FOR A LAURYN HILL,
BUT WHY HAVE WE NOT SEEN SOMETHING LIKE THAT SINCE?
>> WHY HAVE WE NOT?
I THINK IT HAS A LOT TO DO, MAN, WITH MEDIA CONSOLIDATION,
AND IT'S HARD TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN THIS, I THINK, IN A SORT OF REALLY--
I'VE GOTTA FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THIS IN AN ELEVATOR PITCH, RIGHT?
BUT THE WAY THAT THE MEDIA INDUSTRY CHANGED FROM THE MID-'90s
TO THE TURN OF THE MILLENNIUM
HAS REALLY IMPACTED WHAT YOU GET IN TERMS OF CONTENT,
ALL ACROSS THE BOARD. >> RIGHT.
>> YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING-- SO, THAT, UM--
YOU KNOW, IF YOU GO BACK TO WHEN HIP-HOP WAS STILL KINDA COMING UP,
YOU'D HAVE EVERYBODY ON TOUR TOGETHER--
SALT-N-PEPA, PUBLIC ENEMY, GETO BOYS,
JAZZY JEFF AND FRESH PRINCE AND PUBLIC ENEMY
ALL ON THE SAME BILL, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
>> RIGHT. >> AND ICE-T AND--
>> (laughing). >> RIGHT?
LIKE, ALL ON THE SAME BILL.
>> AND THEN, HIP-HOP BECOMES MORE AND MORE OF RATIONALIZED INDUSTRY.
IT PEAKS IN 2000, AND FOLKS HAVE FIGURED OUT THAT,
"HEY, THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF MODES...
"LET'S CALL 'EM 'STEREOTYPES,' JUST TO BE PRECISE, YOU KNOW,
"AROUND THE BLACK MALE, AROUND THE BLACK FEMALE
"THAT WE CAN FULFILL THAT WILL SELL,
"AND LET'S WORK THE HECK OUT OF THOSE."
UM, AND SO, THE RANGE OF REPRESENTATIONS NARROWS,
AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT. >> RIGHT.
>> AND IT'S BECAUSE THESE ARE THE STEREOTYPES
THAT CAN SELL NOT JUST RECORDS,
BUT THEY CAN SELL, YOU KNOW, MOVIES, VIDEO GAMES,
VITAMIN WATER, ALL KINDS OF STUFF, RIGHT? >> SEX, DRUGS, AND ROCK 'N ROLL.
>> YEAH, EXACTLY-- THE WHOLE THING.
YOU KNOW, IT BECOMES THIS SORT OF WHOLE BASKET OF GOODS THAT'S GETTING SOLD,
NOT JUST TO MUSIC.
AND SO, WITHIN THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HOW YOU HAVE TO KINDA UNDERSTAND
WHAT NICKI MINAJ IS WORKING AGAINST.
SHE'S PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES
WITHIN THE KIND OF BOX SHE'S BEEN, LIKE, WALKED INTO, RIGHT?
>> HMM. >> AND I THINK THAT THERE--
WHAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO, AS AUDIENCES,
AS PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, RAP MUSIC,
IS TO BE ABLE TO SAY, "THESE ARE THE FOLKS THAT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR,"
YOU KNOW, TO BE ABLE TO RAISE UP--
THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF AMAZING FEMALE ARTISTS OUT THERE.
INVINCIBLE IN DETROIT. >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> SO, YOU KNOW, LIKE-- >> JEAN GRAE.
>> JEAN GRAE-- LIKE, WE COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON, RIGHT?
THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF... OF M.C.s.
THERE'S A SHORTAGE OF ATTENTION FROM THE MUSIC INDUSTRY
TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THESE FOLKS TO KINDA THE NEXT LEVEL.
>> AND QUICKLY, HOW, A CONSUMER, DO YOU SUPPORT THE--
THE PEOPLE THAT YOU SUPPORT, HOW DO YOU SUPPORT THEM?
>> I MEAN, YOU-- >> WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT?
>> YOU SUPPORT THE ARTIST DIRECTLY.
YOU GO TO THEIR SHOW. >> RIGHT.
>> YOU KNOW, IF THEY'VE GOT SOMETHING ON BANDCAMP.
LIKE, YOU MAYBE DOWNLOAD A COUPLE SONGS,
BUT YOU GO AND GIVE 'EM THE FIVE BONES THAT THEY NEED TO KEEP ON GOING.
YOU KNOW, IF THEY'VE GOT A KICKSTARTER THING,
YOU PUT DOWN A 20 FOR A T-SHIRT AND A DOWNLOAD,
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE, SUPPORT FOLKS.
I MEAN, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO BUILD OUR OWN SUSTAINABILITY,
AND THAT MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE, BACK IN THE DAY WHEN WE COULDN'T--
WHEN EVERYTHING WAS ON VINYL,
WE COULDN'T BOOTLEG IT IN THAT SENSE, RIGHT?
YOU SAVED UP WHATEVER, YOU KNOW... (music)
FOR THE WEEKEND, WHERE YOU COULD GO AND SPLURGE ON A COUPLE OF 12-INCH SINGLES
OR AN ALBUM, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? >> RIGHT.
>> AND THEN, WHEN THEY CAME TO TOWN,
LIKE, YOU SAVED UP ALL YOUR MONEY, SO YOU COULD GO AND SEE THE SHOW.
SAME TYPE OF THING. (music)
I MEAN, IT'S NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN IT'S EVER BEEN.
UM, AND I THINK THAT'S THE WAY
THAT WE CREATE SPACES FOR THESE ARTISTS
THAT WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO THRIVE. >> RIGHT.
>> WE DO THAT. >> RIGHT.
>> NOBODY ELSE IS GONNA DO THAT FOR US.
>> WELL, THIS HAS BEEN AZIZI JASPER WITH MR. JEFF CHANG,
AND THIS HAS BEEN A PRESENTATION FOR THE GRCC DIVERSITY LECTURE SERIES.
THANK YOU.
(music)