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Year's Eve I'm I think the essence
tyranny lawler state but beyond them
the I'll possibility
I think it's an assault on free speech yeah so
it seems as though they really are reversing freedoms we have going back
cases fifth amendment to the Magna Carta
and from what I heard today in the hearing it seem like not only
could they be detained people but that the military decides who's a journalist
isn't a journalist asked a question about whether many many separate there's
the question what is said Sen
substantive action was associated groups
yeah and who counts as it was it was the lockers and of course are trying to
will try to show that joining the sign is not a journalist in the covered sense
so about man's now they've made WikiLeaks an enemy of the state
then after strike reno's terms but for that matter
they really think the public in those terms there or
certainly when I was in the pentagon effin Air Force person talked about the
enemy
you know who he was talking about wasn't didn't speak Russian
he was maybe haha essentially army maybe
so can you tell me a little bit about
I'm so the you've been the power of the executive 1971 let's say
now like what I would you say with the difference between now and nineteen
seventy-one
here with the president in order to keep me quiet
about things that went beyond the pentagon papers which ended in 68 before
he came in
he was so afraid that I would give documents about
crimes in my eyes that he'd made the
took many efforts to to keep me silent falls to which are now
legalized like going into my former doctor's office to blackmail me
sending people to beat me up on
onward Wildcats and no use the CIA
against me no name several all of which are essentially legalized
now the death squad part hasn't been formally legalized the president is
pronouncing it is though it's a proud respective you think elections
and use the CIA and doctors office or
my reputation is legal under the Patriot Act so the president now would not even
have to bother
obstruct justice covering that up nixon
would not face impeachment for those reasons at the same time I would say
like Bush Obama has conducted
clear-cut impeachable crimes some violation of the Constitution Article
section 1 Section eight
by we are going to levy without even pretended
so yeah and by continuing basically
%uh turning over people to torture don't torture in Iraq and Afghanistan
and refusing to investigate in both cases he's
failing is obligation to execute the laws
I'm told that no politician has ever been sanctioned
for violating his oath to have supported uphold the Constitution
you were being no I don't remember which is meaningless words
right what I me that oath that was a meaningless words to me
and I feel looking back and I had violated that oath might be quiet but
the fact that the congress is being lied to
later it seemed to me I was distinctly upholding
upholding my with the either way it appears as
no one to measure that no-one to do anything about can you talk a little bit
about that the feeling the experience that preceded your decision to blow the
whistle on
release home soul of story I wrote a book about that
yes secrets for pic to recapitulate by Delphi with
Bradley Manning large party weird entity is being trusted
by respectable people to take their secrets for them to be selected for that
be a trustworthy person do you do with promises of SN
because you're a civilian and he was still listen is it different
for the Manning the because he wasn't listed at the time and you were
civilians
the only difference is in the oath you take which is that his oath does mention
the commander in chief
and obeying the orders the UCMJ you might think that applied officers goods
are also subject to it but it doesn't it only mentions upholding the Constitution
course for for both miss that an officer's
orders are the regulations have the force criminal law that's not true for
for
serving reading a big difference also is the public opinion now
that there is it because Obama is a democrat
somehow liberals have on silent about things like
torture and friend email I good here
unhappily is proving easier for the president to get away with prosecuting 6
going on seven or eight %uh people's
part first track on the Espionage Act I think there'd be more
much more were no cry if pushed for doing that though I'm not sure would
make any difference
got away with anything you want to what exactly was it the democrats
stop him from doing that he wanted to do me I think that is something like
there's orbit after
right there was more of an aircraft was more exam himself is your evening
the pretty much stuff with you term since up
Liberty I'm not aware he's getting any significant opposition
rights but now it seems that Obama is legalizing extending the powers that
question i
he's going further than was actually went it's the same kind
series thought given the fact that Obama is now on twenty new cabinet members you
see
India new cabinet members that some of these
other yeah he addressed in any way other than sorry
sent well I thought that the point would've Hagel
was very promising on a number grow site and just for the last few years Hagel is
the doubt in my mind
Republican or Democrat is somebody was really able to speak forthrightly
against the wards
and a against a the idea that Israel's interests is not identical to that of
the United States
that's why he's getting so much opposition I don't call it a whole lot
on that making a big she cute
yeah when he gets in a lot of officers look at Gore
and the faded the earth %uh before his life president we didn't get much
benefit out to them
you would you ever consider being the partner defense secretary
%uh no yeah what
no I for civil I don't have the talent for that I don't have executive
what you believe in peace yes that that's a disqualification
well I think we've been losing are
a guaranteed freedoms one by one
for at least the last dozen years even chipped away the mall for them
and what's happening now is that they're being open
about law-breaking it was previously
over they're inviting President the public to react to that
in the absence of any real public reaction or congressional investigation
they're making a bipartisan or other things like torture
invest and
though pretensions rendition rather
and drove the particular V universal surveillance
I think now this NBA the idea that the president has unlimited power
to kill as well as to detain indefinitely
it's really hard to distinguish between I'll
death in life in south
small cell somewhere
thing and go likely killing somebody is not necessarily worse
presidencies claiming the right to do that to any american American or not
anywhere or anywhere in the world right it's not like the one the one thing is I
don't you think that
anyway and I find It Be did not need be followed a 180 minutes online night
I'm sorry did nothing even telling you give one AD 180 minutes online
didn't do it on their own
don't you think we do it on their own can you then there are
they're already doing it governments already doing it okay I'm not sure I
understand you but
because the danger these things is not the with the public thinks that they're
great kids simply
people gave fun
I States daydream the whole point of
love the Advani banning
outlawing torture an assassination is the large number
from hundreds of people who are suspected
and but people say we love course torture works
if they tortured me I'd tell them everything
you don't have to question and what if I didn't know the answer
we tell them anything anyway and flood the system
for every person who knows anything is ten people who tell them false things
that will be just as good leads
meaning that their their likelihood for pursuing real criminals is less
rather for meanwhile enraging creating
terrorist phones event
love that addresses think it's dry what do you think is driving the government
to continue its
its or slow you know pushing a peace policy
get knowing the well on the one hand I didn't expect
%uh Obama was voted for first and second time
I didn't expect him to change the policies of Bush with respect to civil
liberties I don't know any
president who has actually I love
risk renounced powers abusive hours that were given to mister president
it takes the congress and takes courts and public to do that and they haven't
done that
but another question is why
that I've asked everybody for all time why is the president
I conducted six indictments twice as many as any other before
for leaking which mike is the first and six is even
misleading because they believe is the seventh to know what that says
yeah I hate nice touch name it starts with H
he took some documents don't put him in a media account 31
title it's a seventh indictment have gotten a lot of a business anasazi
courses going
is would be the eighth love
the best guess I've heard is
it's certainly not because he's more concerned about leaks than other
presidents because they're all the president's
are ferocious about leaks he doing it isn't just because he has
%uh response to 9/11 because
Bush has that so I wasn't bush doing going home sick
and I think two things that have changed our one that he's a Democrat he can get
away with it would be much less liberal criticism
and bushy bushy done the same meet certain me might have gone away
just done it but he would have had more with the heat about it and he
the technique for tracing the leaks
is better every day every week %uh
their ability to check the emails GPS
the credit card checked into show with the context were
with journalists confront the officials with why do you see this guy on this day
and so forth
I think that either Republican or Democrat would
could exploit that we have a democrat now good even more easily
the next president will just be routinely I
with they haven't done yet is Paul full-scale mainstream german
CNN the word shove the act that was used against
all these cases than me applied just as much
to journalists and two secretaries and to readers
above the doctor who are holding impressive I doctor Hansen handed
to somebody else the Act applies exactly's much for them now they have
and use that as much
at all presumably because they're afraid it would be found unconstitutional
Sarawak but they have said Bradley Manning hearings that it would be
exactly the same
with in may give it to you at times right and hit the Grammys Kings uses
special wasn't
military they can make a regulation of bring
but um on
I think that they're going after sunset park on the grounds that they're hoping
some journalists
will disown him as a journalist say well it affect other significant
and
they won't be as much depth courses spending as much everything they can
to denigrate both Manning and
the signs on personal grounds gender
think that 9/11
times
no I haven't been convinced by that I think there's no question at all
the administration jumped on a 911
exploited exactly in distinguishing me the way
from the nazis exploiting the Reichstag fire within 24 hours
it's still to this day there's a controversy
I was in the fire was actually set by the nazis their arguments on both sides
but they haven't we determined that there is no and the same is true
amazingly enough for femia the main is 100 percent certainty how the main went
down in Havana Harbor
hundred years ago but stuff %ah
the fact that their you serve it to create a war is clear enough
was clearly conspiratorial
what do you think is the discrepancy between the
rats actually exists about kinda and what government is making it
all these things about meeting the enemy and if you're
well the needy the enemy charge i think is I say is a layman
keeps me on its face unconstitutional even for a military man with no element
have
in tamped or intent to harm the United States over to form for
here to afford power just to say that something I C may find its way usually a
his %uh
to kate is ridiculous that's true love every page of every newspaper in the
country
leaving the threat is really is great as the government would like us to believe
the right this is a threat really is great as the government unless they're
trying to do exactly what our founders
tried not to do and that is to expand the word trees ever editions liable
to cover everybody up I remember when
up
paint at many people think that the president is commander-in-chief
he's acting like one for everybody as if you were all in
in the army like Bradley Manning out military a loss
yeah I think MPAA I could be put in a military show
you know I am serving in the same way Bradley Manning premier
no that's that's the intent to the statute is to basically militarized
our civil justice is that's why thing said that
that that's the intent of the statute that's there's no question that that's
what they're after his
to bring to bear the power military in
to create a separate military justice system within the United States
that's what's so dangerous about the NDAA
go for example the NDAA says that people could be detained for
until the end of hostilities when exactly when exactly
is there now day 01463
into ever I'm sorry 4,000 16 eleven years
eleven years and over five months into this war
and no one has the fine with it and
and yet you know basically for the first time a military lawyer
suggested this they might think about when ends but
he said the even the fact that the top leadership about Kenya
has been either killed work disbanded doesn't qualify for that for the
Yahoo or Twitter to pick me if you're fighting a foreign power in their
the reserve your top leadership has been killed disbanded
you you be arriving at the end of hostilities so when the NBA says
you could detain someone in a military prison until the end of hostilities
that is that is what tire issue is to put away
their enemies potentially forever and the enemy traditionally been a
nation-state
and now that it's sort of this shadowy organization it's everywhere
rent we don't really have any legal president for
how it and that's why they're trying to for so that's why they're trying to
create
as much law as they can to give the military
as much power as they campaign and to use the apparatus
above the national security agencies on
domestic population which there was a clear line that one could you do that
in nineteen seventies that mine has now been several
so now you have not just warrantless wiretapping conducted by foreign
intelligence agencies
you got drones for the first time in American skies
it's all part of one piece unfortunately
and that pieces more and more uses of the military
domestic to the point where now that you want to militarize our civil justice
system which is
the essence of what we are as a nation is a civil a separate civil justice
system
not want it's on to control the military so all this is going very
dangerous direction so what can the public to
well they can get involved with the
lawsuit ever hear at go to the website stop NBA downward
Tom they can
making get involved in similar efforts that involved in litigation
and
protest movements of which there are a number throughout the country now
rather than thinking you've done your civic duty
just by going to the polls is owning for
the democrat is gonna turn around and use the laws against them
that he said he would you know oppose so
you know that's not the entire civic duty so you know up
mister ellsberg voted for Obama but he's also have their
as a plaintiff in a lawsuit against them because he realizes that's not the end
your civic duty
what it was would have the things I mean
you know that what I US you mean that could happen in the near future you know
anything yet settled
well actually I give you an example
II which is really me statutes the other day there's been an effort in the
country in the last job
five to six months by a group called Alec which is a
I'm a branch of the 30 corporate up
service a corporate world outfitted
create state wats and it created a new set of laws called Agra terrorism while
which actually makes it an act of terrorism to go into
a have a chicken plant worker bee plan for some
you know industrial commercial place and expose what's going on inside
that's considered terrorists friend for for for my entire life that's good
that's been considered journalism and now
is terrorism so as much if they're trying to vacuum up as much as possible
under the ambit of the military that my powers in the state
so that's that's a tickets really and prophetic words or is it seems that like
it looks like the couple with boys taking over everything
in many respects we have a corporate media's so it's not necessarily the
interest to talk about the NDAA
I'm thank you for talking I S
thank you very much thank you