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Egypt's is continuing meant to be in a state of crisis
and in fact that so i i think thats
I don't think that that is clearly one of the biggest stories the day so what's
let's start there Rebecca a bush it is with us she's a true and fellow
and share with the Middle East and North and the Middle East and North Africa
expert group at the Truman
National Security Project Roman project dot corbis
org is the website Rebecca welcome to the program
thanks for having me thanks for joining us arm first of all your
assessment or your you know kind of a
the new news is you know can I headlines at the top of the news a
what's going on in Egypt right now it's just
I mean it really heartbreaking to watch were so far from
you know the hope a the millions of Egyptians that
came into Tahrir Square out what feels like so
so long ago in their original revolution and
and the thing that really worries me about what you're seeing in Egypt
is it if not I made the short term implications are dire
but also what you're seeing is not just failure at have the state
but the dissolution at the nation and so you're hearing from the
from both sides its this can only happen in a context
where the at where each side has started to really be humanizing be legitimized
the other
and how you're hearing a lot of rhetoric about these people whoever
you know the other side is not really being a dipshit and not somehow being
authentic and in expressing their
kind as Egyptian heard and that's what that's what really
and it disturbs me and bothers me more than anything to see
this kind of violence and and for
for Pro Evolution her anymore she was an awful president
but to see people be able to kind as Dominic
this amount as violence and death against a fellow Egyptians
and be able to somehow find ways to excuse it
and then for Morsi and Brotherhood supporters to be able to
have used the rhetoric and an excuse violence against are now
attacks and 56 a Coptic
churches and bookstores and other institutions throughout the country
I'm and it's really Timmy very worrying and
and Wiese we heard just a rocket or if you know what
Syria explosion in lebanon yeah and I can't believe I've seen it in Egypt
and it's what we saw in the United States the eighteen fifties I mean this
is the
this is the run-up to civil war typically when when
two's two factions within a country major factions began object to find the
other
citrate I the
the history of american involvement with Egypt goes way back in right now
I think our current and by the way I should mention you you but you've been
to Egypt many times you're in cairo dave morse a i've
morsi's constitutional law firm to Crieff for the truman research project
you were
a an election monitor for the ndia for the first round
I V chips problem entry elections so you have it pretty good insight as
we last year I believe it was gave them one point three billion dollars
in military aid in about two hundred fifty million dollars
about point to billion a almost three tenths of a billion dollars
in so-called non-military aid
right and my understanding is that the vast majority that 1.3 billion that we
quote gave them in military aid and quote
know their money actually ever left the United States who went from a checking
account for the US government to checking accounts for Lockheed Martin
and
and and I GE Aviation
and you know on on the list goes for tanks for
electronics for F-fourteens F-sixteens whatever the planes are for Black Hawk
helicopters
and and that a lot of the so-called civilian aid
is actually going the the military engine
Egypt all in so many other so much of the countries
industrial infrastructure that religion is manufactured there is I'll be
manufactured by the military so it's making many is
senior military folks into multi-millionaires
is that a an accurate first evolved assessment well
particularly that you know the first part the description of how US military
aid works and it's not unique to Egypt it
pretty much how r military aid work to most countries
a maybe call me with the exception that israel is that we
given nation's military aid so that we're basically giving them money to buy
our stuff
so you're right that it's not really and about aid to that country specifically
and we don't even cyclic through their checking accounts so that the banks can
make a profit of it free
we run it through our own you know bankamerica handles it or whatever rate
if it's pretty clear kinda what
what's going on in and I think you can see
you know without saying kinda why that create a problem
particularly in our relationship not so much with the military those countries
but actually with the people as those countries right the bullets are made the
USA the bombs are made in the USA the tear gas canisters literally have made
in USA printed on them the tanks the helicopters the guns
Santorum that looks up but many many
you know a lot of their country's have a respect
for their military so it's not just that we're supplying military
that that bothers them but the idea is that where we put our priority
right where we see that the importance of a relationship
is with either the the you know one like a strong man arab leader
or the military and not in actually investing in the people who love the
region
right if we had put a billion dollars into building schools particularly
schools for girls
if we had put a half a billion dollars into your billion dollars in the
building
a year over the last thirty years into building hospitals
into building in on just I infrastructure you know good electric
grids good septic systems good water systems
good roads the kind of infrastructure on which
business grows so that domestic industry could
could blossom we would be a very different place right now would we have
and Saudi gypped I think we would and
you know I at I don't wanna cut you know I've had too many friends who work in
an you know for USA idea if people are doing amazing work and really
I think that we undervalue and that the work that
that they do but they're doing it at a fraction of this budget right and and
so many american if you ask them what percentage of as our budget goes to
foreign aid bill think that it 10 or 15 percent in its
it so minuscule button but really it's about you know our budget reflect our
priorities in everything that we do so not just
foreign aid but but the way that we spend money here at home and
people understand that may understand kinda where the interested
and so I think you know I spent a lot of my life
in the Arab world and there's always kind ever a disappointment in the United
States in the sense that
you know apart most arabs what what the United States has in a sense as
a you can get a job you can go to school you can have a better life than your
parents had an
and they've always kind of looked up to you but also been disappointed
my think by US foreign policy that doesn't really
look at them or see you then Ryan all they get our tanks
they don't get schools they don't get good jobs they don't get in an economy
that is due for some
potentially self sufficient and I and i think that there's a feeling I mean in
Egypt right now I
you know there's a lot of anger at the United States I think some of it unfair
quite frankly I think some evidence that the Egyptian people
and are going to a process that they're going to have to decide what the future
you kept it since I do think that sometimes there's an unfair kinda on the
10th given to be made
if that we are this kind of invisible hand all over the region
and I don't agree with that and but I do think that
we've been to reactive we haven't been very clear
it's true that all foreign policy but is a balance between interest
and values but we need to be very clear about where our values are in it and how
many times we haven't
and we also need to kind as I think in the US discourse about what's going on
in the Middle East
step away a bit from the Federation as elections
alone mean elections are something you can see you see the purple finger
his you see people waiting in line you could talk that I understand why
elections are
are as important as they are an election alone is not come on the case
yeah and and we really have that kinda be looking at that picture
Williams Rebecca thank you so much for being with us today
thank you you can a woke up from the back of a good she did you can read her
writings over
truman at Truman project at work and
this is a complex issue
this is the Thom Hartmann program that is not going to be resolved today or
tomorrow
or any day this week and something that should be causing a
now America to be seriously thinking about where we're doing this