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TOM MERRITT: Coming up, what goes best with a dragon?
Babies.
We'll show you why.
VERONICA BELMONT: And we raise a pint to Bilbo Baggins as we
kick off our December book pick, "The Hobbit." It's A
Sword and Laser Book Club.
[DANCE MUSIC]
VERONICA BELMONT: Hey everybody,
I'm Veronica Belmont.
And welcome to The Sword and Laser Book Club.
TOM MERRITT: That's right.
It's our book club episode.
We're kicking off our December pick and giving you scads of
great reading list ideas in the science fiction and
fantasy genre.
VERONICA BELMONT: You didn't say who you were.
TOM MERRITT: I'm Tom Merritt.
VERONICA BELMONT: You're Tom Merrit.
And you can join in reading "The Hobbit"
with us this month.
Or if that's not your thing, you will come away from this
show with something you'd like.
I definitely guarantee it.
We have so many books to recommend as always.
TOM MERRITT: Let's start off by checking out what books are
coming out soon in the calendar.
VERONICA BELMONT: On December 18, "The Folly of the World,"
by Jesse Bullington, follows a deranged thug, a ruthless con
man, and a half feral girl into the flooded low countries
of the 1420's.
TOM MERRITT: On December 24th, you get some Piers Anthony in
this Xanth series with "Luck of the Draw," in which Bryce
is summoned to Xanth as part of a wager.
Courtship ensues.
Also on the 24th, "The Hermetic Millennia," by John
C. Right Wright, sweeps through 8,000 years of human
history, as gunslinger Illatian Montrose is
occasionally woken from cryo-suspension as he waits
for the arrival of a malevolent alien intelligence.
VERONICA BELMONT: If that's not enough to slack your
sci-fi fantasy thirst, keep watching.
We've got some great ideas from our audience.
But first, we kick off this month's book pick, "The
Hobbit."
TOM MERRITT: So "The Hobbit."
VERONICA BELMONT: A little book some of you
may have heard of.
TOM MERRITT: Where do we start?
VERONICA BELMONT: Where do we start?
TOM MERRITT: We should start with a disclaimer that so much
has been written, so much academic theses--
I almost said academic feces.
VERONICA BELMONT: I know.
You almost did.
TOM MERRITT: Academic theses have been written about "The
Hobbit." We're not going to try to kick off "The Hobbit"
the way we might kick off other books.
There's too much known about it.
But the movie's coming out this month.
So obviously we thought it was a good opportunity to get back
in and read it.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
TOM MERRITT: When did you first read "The Hobbit"?
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, gosh.
Years ago when I was a kid.
So it's been a while--
not too long, I mean.
But I mean, it's been a good amount of time since I've
picked up the book.
And I'm excited.
Because I feel like I've read "Lord of
the Rings" more recently.
So it's actually fun to go back and read "The Hobbit" now
and kind of get a wider breadth of the world.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
I first read "The Hobbit" in 1987.
VERONICA BELMONT: How do you know that?
TOM MERRITT: The only reason I know that is because this is
the version I read right here.
VERONICA BELMONT: Is this the actual book?
TOM MERRITT: It's 50th anniversary addition that came
out in 1987.
VERONICA BELMONT: Wow.
That's awesome.
That's gorgeous.
TOM MERRITT: I had not read "The Hobbit." I was culturally
deprived as a child until I didn't send in the little slip
for book of the month club that this was the
book of that month.
And I got this sent to me accidentally.
And I was going to have to send it back.
Because I was like, well it was an accident.
And then I started reading it.
And I'm like I don't care how much it is--
VERONICA BELMONT: You kept it instead.
TOM MERRITT: I'm keeping this.
I'm buying it.
And it's been a long time since I read it too.
Because like you, I read "Lord of the Rings" when the movies
all came out.
But I mean, I read it more than once.
But I remember when the last time I read it was.
VERONICA BELMONT: I know.
Well as a little back story, it was published on the 21st
of September, 1937.
There were 1,500 copies.
And it was sold out by December.
So it did pretty well for itself at the time.
It was actually illustrated by Tolkien, who designed the dust
jacket as well.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
And we have a reproduction here of the first condition.
This is not an actual first edition.
But that's the original dust jacket design that he made.
VERONICA BELMONT: I love that he did the illustrations too.
That's amazing.
TOM MERRITT: Now did you know that when he started the work
on "Lord of the Rings"--
I didn't realize this til we were starting to
research for this--
he changed things in "The Hobbit" to match up with the
story he wanted to tell in "Lord of the Rings." So in
later editions of "The Hobbit," certain parts of the
novel changed.
VERONICA BELMONT: Do you mean like the Gollum section?
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, exactly.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
This I found really interesting as well, how in
the original scene in the original version, Gollum
decides to--
he just gives him the ring.
Or he's just like--
TOM MERRITT: He's like oh well.
I lost.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh yeah.
He lost the ring.
He knows that--
TOM MERRITT: He's not nearly as upset about it.
VERONICA BELMONT: Bilbo has the ring.
And he's like, OK.
And they part amicably.
TOM MERRITT: Sort of, yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: Like, OK.
Well, I guess I lost.
TOM MERRITT: At that point, it wasn't yet known that it was
the one ring to rule them all.
VERONICA BELMONT: Right.
TOM MERRITT: The book got published in kind of an
accidental way.
Susan Dagnall was a staff member of
George, Allen & Unwin.
And George, Allen & Unwin was recommended to the book by Ms.
Dagnall, who was impressed by it.
Tolkien had given it to C. S. Lewis and a student named
Elaine Griffiths, who shared it with Dagnall.
She showed it to Stanley Unwin, who gave it to his
10-year-old son, Rayner.
Rayner's favorable comments convinced Unwin, all right.
We'll give it a shot.
And then like you said, it sold out.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's amazing.
Yeah, and of course it's one of the standards that people
hold themselves to for fantasy these days.
And I've gone back and listened to parts as well in
the audio book.
And the audio book, by the way, is absolutely incredible.
It's really good.
If you want to experience it in a different kind of way, I
highly recommend checking that out.
Because they sing all the songs in it.
TOM MERRITT: Oh, that's cool.
VERONICA BELMONT: And he does all the voices.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: And so it's a lot of fun to listen to.
And I was actually kind of surprised.
Like I know it's a book that you can read with kids, but it
has such a great adventure sense to it.
It feels so different from all the other books that we've
read, which feel a lot more adult and a lot more serious.
This has such a sense of fun to it also.
TOM MERRITT: It's very much a light-hearted adventure with
dark corners.
VERONICA BELMONT: Definitely.
TOM MERRITT: Obviously, Mirkwood.
VERONICA BELMONT: But it's fun.
It's kind of fun to have that change of pace from a lot of
the darker stuff that we do end up reading.
TOM MERRITT: Now what do you think about the
movie coming out?
Are you excited?
VERONICA BELMONT: Well I, like most people, was a little
perturbed by it going from a single film into a trilogy,
although at the same time, more "Hobbit" is
good by me as well.
I'm happy to have the opportunity to see
more films like that.
So I think if anyone can do a good job with it, Peter
Jackson will do a good job.
I don't know.
How do you feel?
TOM MERRITT: I'm a little nervous.
When I come at it as, like, hey.
I get more "Lord of the Rings," I'm excited.
Because I really enjoyed those movies as movies.
And so here we are getting more of that.
And in that way, the addition of characters that aren't in
"The Hobbit," but were in "Lord of
the Rings" is exciting.
Like, oh, we get to see these characters again.
But as a reader of "The Hobbit," coming to it, it
makes me nervous.
In fact, we were talking to Pat Rothfuss.
And he had some concerns about the movie
along the same lines.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh yeah?
What did he think?
TOM MERRITT: Well, why don't you just ask him?
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, hi.
So what do you think of "The Hobbit" film?
PAT ROTHFUSS: I'm conflicted.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
PAT ROTHFUSS: Conflicted.
And that's the mid-western of saying that I'm irritated.
I'm preemptively irritated by the movie.
Like you guys were talking about, it's a light movie.
It's a fun movie.
It's a child's book really.
It's an adventure story.
And just seeing the previews, there's Gandalf.
He's like, promise me that he'll come back safe.
I can't promise that.
They're going to spin it as effectively a prologue to
"Lord of the Rings"--
darkness everywhere, fear and doom.
But no.
No.
Go ahead and make another movie with all of that in it.
Leave "The Hobbit" alone.
Give me "The Hobbit."
TOM MERRITT: Leave "The Hobbit" alone.
PAT ROTHFUSS: And then if you want to write the middle
story, write that middle story.
But don't force it into "The Hobbit." You
don't got to do that.
VERONICA BELMONT: Do you think maybe they're just showing
that in the previews to pull in that "Lord of the Rings"
audience, and that maybe it will be a little more Hobbity
than we're expecting?
PAT ROTHFUSS: You can't tell me that there's going to be
three movies worth of "Hobbit."
VERONICA BELMONT: It's a pretty big book though.
PAT ROTHFUSS: No, it's not.
TOM MERRITT: They're going to pull in the appendix if
they're going to do that.
And that's not the same tone for sure.
VERONICA BELMONT: So would you rather see a
"Silmarillion" movie?
PAT ROTHFUSS: And that's just it.
There are other stories in this world that would be
plenty gritty and plenty dark.
You can do the story of Beren and Luthien--
plenty of gritty I don't know if he'll be safe.
Great.
I would love to see the story of Beren and Luthien.
I'd love to see pieces of "The Silmarillion."
VERONICA BELMONT: "The Children of Hurin."
PAT ROTHFUSS: Yeah.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, yeah.
PAT ROTHFUSS: Go crazy.
But you don't need to make it "The Hobbit," you know?
Give me "The Hobbit." And then give me those other things.
It's irritating to me.
TOM MERRITT: I'm just going to have to approach it as this is
more "Lord of the Rings." And it's "The Hobbit" story.
But it's "The Hobbit" story in that lens.
And then I'll be excited about it.
PAT ROTHFUSS: If I can get to that place emotionally, I will
probably be able to enjoy it myself.
VERONICA BELMONT: Well just have some more beer.
TOM MERRITT: Dig into the yule log.
VERONICA BELMONT: And have some more yule log.
PAT ROTHFUSS: Beer and log cake.
VERONICA BELMONT: And log of deliciousness.
TOM MERRITT: Thanks for hanging out for so many weeks.
VERONICA BELMONT: Since your interview.
We really appreciate it.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
PAT ROTHFUSS: No worries.
There's been beer and cakes.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's all anyone can ask for these days.
TOM MERRITT: All right.
Before we finish up, I want to mention "Letters from Father
Christmas," by J. R. R. Tolkien.
One of our producers, Suzanne, is a huge fan of this book,
reading it to her kids.
It contains copies of over 20 years worth of handwritten
letters from Father Christmas, aka Tolkien.
That's not a spoiler or anything.
I'm not saying that Tolkien is Santa Claus.
It's full of lots of illustration, short stories.
Elements that foreshadow a lot of his novels are in here.
And Santa Claus is a goblin slayer.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, well that just goes without saying.
TOM MERRITT: So we want to give away a couple copies of
this thanks to Copperfield's Bookstore
right here in Petaluma.
In fact, they lent us a lot of these Hobbit books that are
littering the set today, including the reproduction of
the first edition.
So how should we give it away?
Just postings in the YouTube?
We'll just grab somebody by--
VERONICA BELMONT: Well, I would love some more video
questions as well.
TOM MERRITT: Good idea.
Good idea.
VERONICA BELMONT: So if you post a video question and if
we use it on the show, we will send you a copy of "Father
Christmas."
TOM MERRITT: "Letters from Father Christmas."
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
I think it makes a perfect gift.
TOM MERRITT: First two people that send us a usable one.
So keep it brief.
Keep it relevant to what we do.
And we'll send you a copy of this great book.
VERONICA BELMONT: Absolutely.
Send us a link to the video to feedback@swordandlaser.com.
TOM MERRITT: All right.
Get reading if you aren't already.
And then go see the movie, December 14.
We'll circle back at the end of the month to hear
everybody's thoughts on "The Hobbit." Before we go, let's
see what else folks are saying in email and on Goodreads.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes.
Let's start with an email from Alexandra
who writes, hi, Veronica.
Hi, Tom.
Did you guys know that there is a novel called "The Cloud
Atlas," by Liam Callahan?
TOM MERRITT: Wait a minute.
VERONICA BELMONT: In a recent article, he talks a little bit
about how the success of David Mitchell's novel and the film
adaptations affected him.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
This is an amazing story.
It's Callanan.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, sorry.
Callanan.
TOM MERRITT: Well he wrote "The Cloud Atlas" around the
same time the David Mitchell was writing "Cloud Atlas."
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, wow.
TOM MERRITT: And he sold some copies.
But then when the movie came out recently, all of a sudden
his sales have gone up.
But he's also got these hilarious tales of people
calling him for interviews or writing reviews on his Amazon
page of David Mitchell's book or of the movie that had
nothing to do--
VERONICA BELMONT: First of all, why would you write a
review to the movie on the book page?
TOM MERRITT: He seems to be bemused by it.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's good.
TOM MERRITT: So we'll include a link to
it in the show notes.
You can go take a read.
It's pretty funny.
Next up, a video primer from Timm with two m's.
He might be kissing up a little, because it introduces
you to my favorite sci-fi author, Philip K. ***.
TIMM: As a genre built around extrapolating the future from
our current moment in history, science fiction has the
unfortunate tendency to become dated as technology and the
pool of human knowledge grow.
Oldies like "Princess of Mars," "Journey to the Center
of the Earth," or my personal favorite, "The Wonderful
Flight to the Mushroom Planet" are riddled with issues that
may detract from the modern reader's ability to suspend
their disbelief.
Then there are the classics.
Philip K. *** deals with the nature of the human condition
at its most basic levels, and consequently may never expire
the way other sci-fi does, even as linear time continues
to inevitably march on.
A fact which incidentally, Philip himself was less than
certain about.
A new reader should keep in mind that Phillip K. ***'s
stories tackle a lot of different materials.
Besides traditional sci-fi elements like AI, psychic
abilities, and alternate realities, you also get some
less traditional themes, such as advanced theology,
metaphysics, and altered states like drug use,
hallucination, and insanity.
And let's throw in some philosophy and psychology for
good measure.
Clearly, there are a number of different topics to appeal to
a prospective Philip K. *** fan.
If you're interested in psychic powers and alternate
reality, I'd recommend "Ubik," one of my personal favorites
which makes Inception look like a baby's puzzle.
For AI and psychology, his novel "Do Androids Dream of
Electric Sheep" offers some more conventional sci-fi and
incidentally was the basis for the movie, "Blade Runner." So
there you go.
If drug use and altered states spark your interest, "A
Scanner Darkly" is a fantastic read and a great mystery.
"Valis" deals with religion, metaphysics, and philosophy,
but is quite dense, and may serve you better as your
second or third book by this author.
And if alternate history is your jam, you really need to
pick up "Man in the High Castle." For my money, no one
handles the specific sub-genre with
such weight and precision.
Just know that whichever of these books you pick up,
you'll get some cross pollination with these other
categories.
At the center of these various coordinates is one major
theme, uncertainty of reality.
What is consciousness?
What makes us human?
What makes us insane?
Whereas a lot of sci-fi authors will spend time trying
to get you comfortable with the world they've created,
*** works just as hard to make you uncomfortable.
He wants you to feel uncertain about what's going on, to stop
reading a moment and say, wait.
Hold on.
What's happening here?
The first page of "A Scanner Darkly"
demonstrates this idea elegantly.
But you'll have to pick it up to find out what I mean.
Happy reading.
And remember, the empire never ended.
VERONICA BELMONT: Excellent introduction
to Philip K. ***.
We will, of course, be sending Timm a box of goodies, though
not "Father Christmas" unfortunately.
TOM MERRITT: He's too early for "Father Christmas."
VERONICA BELMONT: A little too early for "Father Christmas."
TOM MERRITT: He'll get something better.
It's just going to get worse-- no, it's not.
VERONICA BELMONT: Left over log cake.
TOM MERRITT: Keep sending us videos.
You'll get books.
That's all we're saying.
VERONICA BELMONT: Absolutely.
Just like this one.
We have another white board video from Aaron, who
introduces "Bridge of Birds," by Barry Hughart.
AARON: I've read a lot of fantasy books.
Let's call it 1,000.
This is the best one.
No jokes, people.
No cheap gags.
No humor.
"Bridge of Birds," the first of Barry Hughart's "Chronicles
of Master Li and Number Ten Ox," is the best fantasy novel
ever written.
It won the World Fantasy Award.
But don't listen to them.
Listen to me.
You need to read this book.
Why haven't you read this book yet?
You'll learn a little about Chinese mythology, but a lot
about intricate plotting and engaging characterization.
This book will teach you about wisdom and humor.
Read it.
You will be a better person, probably with a better social
life and a more satisfying career.
Your complexion will improve.
You'll gain 10 IQ points.
You'll lose weight.
You will finally learn to play the piano.
You'll bring about global peace.
Read this book.
Make this a better world.
TOM MERRITT: I need to lose some weight for the holidays.
VERONICA BELMONT: No.
TOM MERRITT: So I should read some Hughart.
VERONICA BELMONT: Stay away from the log cake.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, and stay away from the log cake.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
That's probably part of the problem.
TOM MERRITT: Finally from our Goodreads forum, as promised,
cute babies and dragons.
Jean writes, obviously we all love Lem from the "Sword and
Laser" YouTube show.
But who else is our favorite dragon character?
Here's mine.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh my gosh.
TOM MERRITT: That's her daughter, Aviendha, in her
Halloween costume.
And yes.
She is named after the character from "The Wheel of
Time." But to prove it wasn't just an excuse to post the
baby picture, Jean goes on to say that her favorite dragon
is Temeraire from Naomi Novik's series.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yay, one of my favorite series.
TOM MERRITT: Who's your favorite dragon?
VERONICA BELMONT: I do love Temeraire.
I'm a huge fan of Temeraire.
He is one of my favorite dragons of all time.
I would definitely put him towards the top of the list.
And Lem.
Lem's OK too.
Lam's pretty good.
TOM MERRITT: I think my favorite dragon is Edmund.
VERONICA BELMONT: Edmund--
TOM MERRITT: From "Voyage of the Dawn Treader," when he
gets turned into a dragon.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, i haven't read that.
TOM MERRITT: The C. S. Lewis?
VERONICA BELMONT: No, I haven't read that.
TOM MERRITT: It's the third of the "Narnia" chronicles.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, then I guess maybe I have read that.
It's been awhile.
TOM MERRITT: Oh wait.
And I have it wrong.
It's Eustace that gets turned into the dragon.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, I don't know.
TOM MERRITT: Right?
Eustace?
PAT ROTHFUSS: Yes.
TOM MERRITT: Thank you.
Yes.
VERONICA BELMONT: Patrick Rothfuss says yes.
TOM MERRITT: He says yes.
VERONICA BELMONT: He knows his stuff in this area.
TOM MERRITT: All right.
Well post your favorite dragons on
the Goodread forums.
But that does it for us today.
Don't forget "The Sword and Laser Author Guide" show where
we interview the best authors in the biz.
And submit your questions to them.
In our next episode, we're talking to Paul Cornell,
creator of "Doctor Who's" Bernice Summerfield.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes.
And also the brand new book coming out, "London Falling."
but you don't want to miss that.
So make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel.
It's the green button up there in the corner at
YouTube.com/GeekandSundry.
Or send us an email at feedback@swordandlaser.com.
And of course, join in on all the fun at our Goodreads
forums at Goodreads.com.
Search for "Sword and Laser." We will see
you guys next time.
TOM MERRITT: Adios.
VERONICA BELMONT: Felice navidad.
TOM MERRITT: Cheers.
[DANCE MUSIC]