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>> TIME NOW FOR STORY NO. 8. ONE YEAR AFTER THE TRAGEDY OF
NEWTOWN, CONNECTICUT, THE NATION REMAINS AS DIVIDED AS
EVER ON GUN CONTROL AND THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS MASS
SHOOTINGS, THAT INCLUDE A TEEN ACCUSED OF KILLING HIS FAMILY
IN ALBUQUERQUE'S SOUTH VALLEY. NUMEROUS EFFORTS TO PASS
STIFFER GUN LAWS IN VARIOUS STATES FAILED, INCLUDING
LEGISLATION IN NEW MEXICO, LAWMAKERS TRIED TO PASS SOON
AFTER THE SOUTH VALLEY KILLINGS.
TRIP, RIGHT AFTER THE NEWTOWN SHOOTINGS CAME OUR SHOOTING
HERE LOCALLY. AND IT WAS SUCH A DIFFICULTY
FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE BUT ON THE ISSUE OF GUNS, IT WAS
INTERESTING TO SEE THE PUSH AFTER NEWTOWN AND HERE IT
DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE; THE GUN CONTROL.
WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THAT TO OVERALL?
>> WHERE DO YOU START? HONESTLY, I THINK THERE IS A
LOT OF MONEY IN THIS ISSUE COMING FROM NRA AND AT THE
RATIONAL LEVEL, THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY COMING AND SAYING,
YOU VOTE THIS WAY, AND YOU MIGHT FACE A PRIMARY. I THINK
PEOPLE -- THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL ISSUE, EXTRAORDINARILY
EMOTIONAL ISSUE. I REMEMBER WRITING A STORY
ABOUT THE TRI-CORE -- A STORY ABOUT HOW -- YOU COULDN'T FIND
OUT WHO HAS A CONCEALED WEAPON PERMIT AND I WROTE A STORY
BACK WHEN I WORKED FOR THE INDEPENDENT AND POSTED THAT ON
LINE AND WITHIN TWO MINUTES THERE WERE PEOPLE SAYING, YOU
KNOW, CALLING ME NAMES AND ALL THIS OTHER STUFF AND
FORTUNATELY, I HAVE NOT BEEN AROUND GUNS BUT THIS IS
EXTRAORDINARILY EMOTIONAL FOR FOLKS AND CUTTING THROUGH THE
EMOTION OF HORSE SLAUGHTER AND GUNS AMPLIFIED THAT BY 10
TIMES. >> RACHEL, EVEN OUR NEIGHBOR
STATE, COLORADO, SHOOTINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE,
POLITICALLY IT IS FASCINATING TO WATCH DEMOCRATS GET VERY
MUCH PRESSURED IN THEIR SUPPORT OF THAT GUN BILL UP
THERE. TWO GOT RUN OUT OF OFFICE, A
THIRD ONE RESIGNED BECAUSE PETITION VOTE WAS GOING TO BE
A DIFFICULTY FOR THE PARTY. I HAVE TO IMAGINE THIS GIVES
PAUSE TO FOLKS WHO DO WANT GUN CONTROL IN OUR STATE.
PEOPLE LOSE THEIR SEATS OVER IT.
WHAT IS THE LEVER POINT FOR PEOPLE THAT DO WANT TO HAVE
GUN CONTROL. IT SEEMS VERY DISTANCE AT THIS
TIME. >> THE ISSUE DOES GET AT SO
MANY OF THE CORE OF AMERICAN LIFE; RIGHT TO SAFETY VERSUS
RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, RIGHT TO PROTECT YOURSELF, AND
IT DOES SEEM LIKE AFTER EVERY MASS SHOOTING, EVERY SHOOTING
IN A COMMUNITY, YOU SEE A BIG PUSH, PEOPLE TRYING TO GET
LEGISLATION MOVING FORWARD, OUTPOURING OF GRIEF AND PEOPLE
START TALKING ABOUT WANTING TO HAVE MORE GUN CONTROL AND YET
IT NEVER HAPPENS. SO IT SEEMS LIKE THE
SUPPORTERS OF GUN CONTROL PROBABLY NEED TO COME UP WITH
A WAY TO FRAME IT THAT IS NOT SO TIED TO WHAT JUST HAPPENED,
A BROADER APPROACH IN SOME WAY.
>> RUSSELL, ALSO THROW IN THERE IS THE ISSUE OF
MULTIPLE -- THE CLIP WITH THE MULTIPLE AMMUNITION.
THAT DIDN'T EVEN REALLY KIND OF GET DEALT WITH, SO EVEN
CHIPPING AWAY HAS BEEN A DIFFICULTY FOR FOLKS.
>> GUN CONTROL SUPPORT GROUPS ARE NOT AS ORGANIZED AS NRA,
NOT AS WELL FUNDED. THERE HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTS TO
ORGANIZE THEM BUT THEY ARE STILL IN THEIR INFANCY, STILL
NEED TO GET ORGANIZED. >> WHAT IS MISSING FROM THERE?
>> IT IS ANOTHER URBAN VERSUS RURAL AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS
WHEN WE HAVE DISCUSSIONS, IDEAS JUST FLOATED OUT THERE,
LOOK AT A MAGAZINE, YOU SEE THE COST OF AMMO GO UP.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE GUN OWNERS, WHO SAY WAIT A MINUTE,
NOW YOU'RE MESSING WITH MY LIVELIHOOD, MY HOBBY.
I WAS NEUTRAL, NOW, THE COST OF AMMO HAS GONE UP AND MY
AR-15 IS DOUBLE OR TRIPLE IN COST.
>> THAT IS RIGHT. >> GUN CONTROL SUPPORTERS DO
NOT SHOW UP ON THESE DAYS AT THE STATE CAPITOL HERE AND GUN
RIGHTS SUPPORTERS, THEY COME, THEY GIVE MONEY, THEY ARE
MOTIVATED, THEY ARE VOCAL AND THEY ARE VERY POWERFUL.
I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING TO SEE IN THIS STATE
LEGISLATURE IN THE SENATE, WHICH IS NOTORIOUSLY COZY,
EVENER ACROSS THE AISLE WHEN IT COMES TO PERSONAL ISSUES,
AFTER ALL THESE MEMBERS OF THIS STATE SENATOR'S FAMILY
WERE KILLED, THIS LEGISLATURE FAILED TO DO ANYTHING.
IT IS ABOUT MONEY AND IT IS ABOUT POLITICS AT THE END OF
THE DAY AND YOU KNOW THE NRA SPENT $50,000 IN NEW MEXICO
OVER THE PAST DECADE, MORE THAN MICHIGAN, INDIANA,
WISCONSIN, MARYLAND, MORE THAN HALF IN THE STATES IN THE
COUNTRY, $50,000 IN NEW MEXICO.
THIS IS A CHEAP STATE TO DO BUSINESS IN, YOU KNOW.
>> ABSOLUTELY. INTERESTING.
>> I WANT TO SAY, TOO, THAT THIS IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE
BECAUSE THE SANDY HOOK, AURORA, YOU KNOW, THERE IS
ALSO MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, IT IS NOT EASY.
THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT ISSUE.
CONNECTICUT PASSED PROBABLY THE MOST STRINGENT OF GUN
CONTROL LAWS AND EVEN REPUBLICANS SUPPORTED IT
BECAUSE IT WAS RIGHT THERE. THIS IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE
THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE VERY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE
GUNS AND FEEL PUT UPON BY THIS STUFF AND ALL OF A SUDDEN
EVERYBODY STARTS FOCUSING ON GUN OWNERSHIP AND IT IS HARD
TO SEPARATE OUT THESE KIND OF LIKE OUTLIERS WITH PEOPLE WHO
OWN GUNS AND HUNT OR WHATEVER. IT IS REALLY DIFFICULT.
>> BACKGROUND CHECKS, THAT IS THE BIG ONE FOR A LOT OF FOLKS
TOO. 30 SECONDS HERE.
THAT SEEMS TO BE THE POINT OF ENTRY FOR A LOT OF STATES.
FEDERAL AS WELL, JUST SIMPLY DO A BACKGROUND CHECK TO GET
TO THOSE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. >> RIGHT.
DEFINITELY. I MEAN HERE IN THE WEST, IT IS
ESPECIALLY A QUESTION OF INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, INDIVIDUAL
PRIVACY. >> NOW, NO. 7, ALBUQUERQUE
BECAME GROUNDS ZERO NATIONALLY FOR ANTIABORTION PROTESTORS
WHO CAME FROM OUT OF STATE TO PUSH FOR A LATE TERM BAN.
THEY DIDN'T GET IT ON THE BALLOT FOR THE MAYORAL RACE,
BUT IN SPECIAL ELECTION IN NOVEMBER THE PROPOSAL FAILED.
ABORTION OPPONENTS SAY THEY WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH FOR A
BAN ON THE PROCEDURE AT THE LEGISLATURE.
RUSSELL, SPECIAL ELECTION, AS WE ALL KNOW AT THIS TABLE, HAD
A BIGGER TURNOUT THAN THE MAYORAL TURNOUT WHICH WAS
PRETTY INTERESTING. HOWEVER, THESE FOLKS ARE
PRESSING ON. VALENCIA COUNTY, SANTA FE,
LATE JANUARY FOR LEGISLATURE, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES IN
VALENCIA COUNTY? BETTER THAN HERE OR IF NOT
WHY? >> VALENCIA COUNTY IS A LITTLE
BETTER. A SMALLER AREA, MORE
CONSERVATIVE. I TEACH THERE.
IT IS VERY RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY SO THEY HAVE A BETTER CHANCE
THERE. WILL THIS SERVE AS WHAT THEY
WANT AS A LAUNCHING PAD FOR SOMETHING GREATER REMAINS TO
BE SEEN BECAUSE IT IS STILL A SMALL COMMUNITY, BUT I DO
THINK NATIONAL FOLKS WILL COME AND SAY THIS IS GROUND ZERO
NO. 2, TRY TO GET THIS AND THEN BRING IN DOLORES HUERTA
TO COME OUT AND SPEAK, MAY GET NATIONAL FIGURES.
AT THE END OF THE DAY WILL THAT AFFECT THE LARGER URBAN
AREAS IN NEW MEXICO, I DON'T THINK SO.
I DO THINK THAT IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO LOCALIZE A NATIONAL
DEBATE THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY AND SMALL VICTORIES THAT BOTH
SIDES RACK UP, THEY'LL SAY LOOK, IF WE'RE KEEPING SCORE
THIS IS ONE FOR US. IT IS JUST THAT ATTEMPT.
>> I HAVE TO WONDER WHY DO YOU START IN VALENCIA COUNTY?
I MEAN I GET IT FOR HERE ALBUQUERQUE, BIGGEST CITY BUT
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A -- >> SO, IT IS A VERY VISIBLE
THING. I WAS FASCINATED BY THE WHOLE
EPISODE, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE
THESE OUTSIDE GROUPS CAME IN. MADE SOME REALLY VISIBLE
FUMBLES. NEW MEXICANS DON'T LIKE
OUTSIDERS COMING IN AND TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO AND
WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG AND NEW MEXICANS HAVE A STRONG
SENSE OF PRIVACY AND MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND TO
DEMONSTRATE FROM THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM; BAD IDEA.
>> AND, YOU KNOW, PROTESTING OUTSIDE THAT DOCTOR'S HOME, A
LOT OF PEOPLE, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE THEY WERE ON, WERE, WHOA,
THAT IS GOING TOO FAR. THE TRUTH TRUCK THAT KEPT
DRIVING AROUND CAMPUS, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE
ANTIABORTION THAN THEY USED TO BE, BUT NOT LIKE THAT TRUCK.
MY STUDENTS WERE FREAKED OUT BY THE TRUCK.
IT WENT TOO FAR, SO, I THINK THAT DAMAGED THE CAMPAIGN
HERE. THEY PROBABLY WILL LEARN FROM
THOSE MISTAKES AS THEY MOVE ONTO VALENCIA COUNTY, WILL IT
GO ANYWHERE IN THE LEGISLATURE, NO.
>> ON THAT VERY POINT, IF THEY GET A WIN IN VALENCIA COUNTY
DOES THAT FUNDAMENTALLY MEAN SOMETHING IN SANTA FE?
>> I AM WITH GWYNETH. FRANKLY, IT WILL TAKE ONE
SENATOR IN THE SENATE TO KILL IT.
IT WILL TAKE ONE LAWMAKER IN THE HOUSE TO KILL IT.
YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATURE IS A VERY -- IT IS DESIGNED TO KILL
THINGS NOT TO PASS THINGS. AND I AM NOT JOKING, IT IS
DESIGNED TO KILL THINGS. AND THANKS FOR THAT, THERE ARE
A LOT OF BILLS THAT COME OUT, THAT ARE LIKE WOW.
>> VALENCIA COUNTY, I SEE THIS AS LIKE THIS LARGER THAN
FACTUAL SCIENTIFIC KIND OF DEBATE, COMPETING NARRATIVES
AND SYMBOLIC AND I HATE TO BE THIS WAY, AND I FEEL SKEPTICAL
AND CYNICAL, BUT IT IS ALSO ABOUT BRINGING IN A LOT OF
MONEY. ABORTION IS ABOUT A LOT OF
MONEY, POLITICOS RAISING A LOT OF MONEY, THAT CAN PAY FOR
OTHER THINGS. >> ANTIABORTION PEOPLE HAD
MOTIVATION, THE SUPPORT OF THE CHURCHES, MEGA CHURCHES, OF
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THEY HAD MANPOWER, BOOTS THE GROUND,
BROUGHT IN YOUNG PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
I THINK WE CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE THAT THE PRO CHOICE PEOPLE
HAVE MONEY. ANTIABORTION FOLKS HAVE BOOTS
ON THE GROUND. >> ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE, I
POSTED WHAT HAPPENED, THE STORY THAT HAPPENED, THE
RESULT AND WHATNOT. IT WAS VERY INTRIGUING TO SEE
SOME OF MY FRIENDS SAY, THIS IS SAD, BECAUSE THERE IS A
SLAUGHTER GOING ON THAT IS LARGER THAN ANY HOLOCAUST AND
THEN SOMEBODY SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO IS PRO
CHOICE WOULD SAY, WELL, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF SOMEBODY
TOLD YOU, YOU COULDN'T DO SOMETHING.
>> RACHEL, IT IS INTERESTING HOW WE WATCHED THIS ALL PLAY
OUT OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR, SEEMED LIKE EARLY ON WAS
REALLY ON THE SIDE OF THE FOLKS WHO WERE OPPONENTS,
BOOTS ON THE GROUND, BUT THE PEOPLE SPOKE QUITE LOUDLY.
IT IS INTERESTING AND THERE WERE CERTAIN -- DEFEATS ARE
NOT ALL THE SAME RIGHT? SQUEAK ONE OUT, WE COULD HAVE
DONE SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
THAT WAS A FAIRLY RESOUNDING MEMO FROM THAT COMMUNITY.
I AM CURIOUS WITH THAT MEANS. >> I THINK WHAT IT WAS IS ONE
GWYNETH TOUCHED ON PEOPLE HERE -- THIS IS A COMPLEX
COMMUNITY AND I THINK THERE WAS SOME RESENTMENT OF THE
IDEA THAT FOLKS WERE COMING IN AND TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO.
YOU KNOW, THE SUPPORTERS OF THIS ORDINANCE PROBABLY SAW
SOME DEMOGRAPHICS HERE THEY LIKED.
BUT IT IS COMPLICATED. YOU SEE A LARGE POPULATION OF
CATHOLICS WHICH CERTAINLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS PRO LIFE.
>> ON PAPER IT LOOKED GOOD. >> BUT THEN YOU HAVE CATHOLICS
FOR CHOICE, THIS GROUP COMING OUT AND SAYING WE ACTUALLY
SUPPORT THE PRO CHOICE. >> MY SENSE OF IT, I SAW JUST
A REALLY INTERESTING RISE OF WOMEN HERE.
WOMENS VOICES PUNCHED OVER THE TOP AND SETTLED THE ISSUE AS
THEY SAY. IT WAS INTERESTING TO WATCH.
>> JUST AHEAD POLITICS IS ALWAYS A TOP STORY IN NEW
MEXICO. WE TALK WITH THE MAN BEHIND A
NATIONAL MAGAZINE PIECE ON A CONTROVERSIAL FIGURE WHO
HELPED GET GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ ELECTED.
THAT WOULD BE JAY MCCLEWSKY.