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Roshan Thiran: Welcome to the Leaderonomics Show. I am with Dr Pawan Agrawal, the
Head of the Mumbai Dabbawala's... Pawan Agrawal: Education...
...Centre. Roshan: That's right. Dr Pawan, welcome to the show. Pawan: Thank you so much. Roshan: Thanks for being with us.
Roshan: Tell us a little bit about you. You spent many years, nine years right, doing the research on the Dabbawalas.
Tell us about the Dabbawalas and the research you've done on them.
Pawan: Very good question and I thanks you for inviting me,...
...with your very good system, and good show.
Actually I had to do research on some management subject. There were four
subjects with me and I am on four subject. One was Logistics
Supply Chain of Mumbai Dabbawala, because I am born in and brought up in Mumbai.
I know the Mumbai Dabbawala, may not be closely, but even my
uncle was taking delivery from Dabbawala in his office.
So I was quite interested to know about the system so I choose
the subject and couple of days I just
got some idea, some information from them. I got thrilled.
Amazing story what Mumbai Dabbawalas are doing.
I really got myself thrilled and I'm motivated.
And I decided even I may or may not be Doctorate,
I would do research complete on the system. Roshan: So tell us about the Dabbawalas;
I mean what's so fascinating about the Dabbawalas. Pawan: Fascinates what, the Dabbawalas
'Dabba' means tiffin, 'Wala' means man who carrying this tiffin
These people are not getting food, these people collecting
your tiffin from your home. Tiffin is your, food is
your, which is cooked by your wife or mother. So they will collect
your tiffin from your home in the morning and they will deliver in your office.
After your lunch is over, they will back empty tiffin in the evening
at your home. Now you may be asking, you may be thinking why you want
the Wala to carry your tiffin; why you cannot carry. The reason in Mumbai
because of the long roads. If you want to reach office nine o'clock,
you will start morning six o'clock. If you start morning six o'clock your wife will
cook for you at five o'clock. You do not know whether your wife should cook at five o'clock because
you love your wife. You want she should cook at eight o'clock.
Roshan: We should love our wife. Pawan: You should should love. [ Together ]: (Laughter) Pawan: So your wife will cook eight o'clock
Pawan: You start morning six o'clock. If she cook eight o'clock,
nine o'clock the Wala will come and he will collect for you.
So your wife will get comfortable time, your food will not be hot
but it will remain warm till twelve-twelve thirty. Number two,
even if you start nine o'clock you cannot carry your work tiffin because
the crowded local days of Mumbai, it's so crowded you find
difficult to board in local train with empty hand
taking tiffin is out of the question. You can't carry your tiffin so they are carrying.
Another thing, they're not only carrying only tiffin they carry good
passion, they carry commitment, they carry
love and affection of your mother, wife to your work office
by way of food. Number, next they carry
hygienic things. Because your home food cooked is the most hygienic
than other food in the world. So they want to do this service for them
their customers. Roshan: And the interesting thing is that they carry what? 2 million over tiffins every day?
Pawan: Yeah. Two hundred thousand. Roshan: Two hundred thousand tiffins every day. Pawan: Every day.
Roshan: And you don't make mistakes, I mean so easy to make mistakes right? I mean two hundred thousand logistically
is a nightmare right? Pawan: Exactly. Five thousand people carrying two hundred thousand tiffins.
It means one man carrying approximately fourty tiffin. That fourty tiffin
with fourty different tiffin weight comes to sixty-six tiffin Kg weight. Lily: And how, how
how is that possible? Is it because you've got special luguages to carry all the tiffin?
Pawan: (sigh) Ah ya you what a ...you know what twelve coach of local train,
two coaches are luggage compartment so they travel
in two luggage compartment so they can travel comfort, not comfortably
not easily but despite because of luggage
compartment is separate they travel to the luggage compartment. Roshan: You know, historically,...
...companies like DHL, FEDEX when deliver things, they deliver things
there's always tend to there's always mistakes that happen. But the Dabbawalas are unique right, I mean there's hardly
any mistakes that happen where you get the wrong tiffin or the wrong wife's food,
or maybe someone else's food and so on and so forth. How come how can they do it?
How can they do that? How do they amazingly accurate delivery on time?
all the time... for years right? Hundreds of years they have been doing this right?
Pawan: Very good question what you ask a... they already last one hundred
and twenty three years started eighteen ninety.
Of course it's the human being that always believe. Every human being maybe you and me
How mistake is not happening? I can make some mistake. We've brought
that, " I am right to do mistake." If you ask about Dabbawala, they are not doing
error. Why? I am using one dialogue, "They say error
is horror, don't look to the mirror it is danger."
Roshan: OK. Pawan: Because they believe if I am not giving tiffin
in time your company will not change theirs time.
If the Dabbawalas come late so he knows the consequences.
Number two very good question you ask: some other's wife
tiffin is delivered to you. You will not eat, you will hit me because
you're not vegetarian. Man, what's this nonsense. Because non-vegetarian
if tiffin vegetarian, he will not accept it.
He says simply my customer is fixed everyday.
I am collecting from home, I'm delivering your office. How I can make mistake?
Let's not make mistake, very simple right? Roshan: But how do you do that?
I know they use colour coding stuff right? These are all just simple people right, I mean the Dabbawalas
are not highly educated, they don't have MBAs, they're not the...
... you know it's relatively with with very little technology.
essentially right? How do they not make mistakes? Pawan: See now you are taking my
interview. I don't know how much qualified you are but before you
comes to this job, you must mentally prepared. Man, how should I take interview?
How should I face camera? How I should manage the show? Because
you are passionate to do this, I don't think you're going to make mistake.
You will not make mistake. Roshan: So it's the passion of the people. Pawan: Passion of the people. Number two:
you're dedicated to the customer, you know
my customer is God, my customer is the whole thing so
you are dedicate to that service. Number three: take people
feel serving food, serving God. That attitude
is there. Now see in this case... Roshan: You got to believe that everybody has
all the Dabbawalas serving people I mean OK... Pawan: Exactly and number three: I don't
know I can explain, this 95% people having
this chain, Dabbawalas. What is this? If the chain
they're having, they never drink they never smoke. The reason morning
I come, Dabbawala come to your home, if really he come to your room and you're not there.
Who are there? Mother, sister, wife, people members are there.
So you cannot go drink and smoke, they're allowed, but because culture
comes from heredity, come from grandfather, father
so that passion is there. Roshan: How do you maintain
the whole Dabbawalas, I mean hundred and twenty three years. Now with new technology
with, you know people what, I mean how do you recruit Dabbawalas firstly?
How do you excite them and motivate them? I mean they're not...
... I don't think they are highly competitive people either right? What's your story...
Is there a secret behind it? Pawan: True. True. True.
I think this question answer can be useful to many people. Those who are
in a job or personal man management. Roshan: Absolutely. Pawan: Recruitment, very good.
Any new person suppose to want to come to this business, what is the
condition? Present Dabbawala should take his guarantee.
If he takes guarantee then only he can come to the group.
And when present Dabbawala takes his guarantee
before you come to the group, couple of days before he will make
him train. Man i'm taking you, after your guarantee you must
have passion, you must be honest, you should be hundred percent
execution. You must have the right delivery. No late delivery.
I will make him train so when you come to recruit, that passion
is there because he takes his guarantee.
So normally the same community people
come to the group because present Dabbawala cannot take guarantee of outside person.
The man who's from a village, the man who's from family,
he takes guarantee of his so because of this
that at most period it's remained which is coming from last hundred years
it has last. That is the main reason because in your
this team, your recruit is very important
and I believe if your six people are working
passionately, tomorrow when you appoint seventh person naturally,
if you see your atmosphere he will work like you he will not dare to go against
your six. That's what happening in Dabbawalas. Roshan: Right, right, absolutely. So the culture is
very strong. Pawan: Very strong. Roshan: And you know it's interesting you are sometimes
refered to as the CEO of the Dabbawalas; what we mean is not CEO in a...
...literal sense but the Chief Education Officer.
And as part of your role to educate people about Dabbawalas;
Is it to help I mean are you helping to translate the principles of Dabbawalas
to normal mainstream management? So that management, I mean, the business leaders can see
how much they can learn in terms of your the Dabbawala, the culture,
the ability to motivate, the ability to build such culture,
values and integrate it into the work place. It's that one of the, one of the
things you are trying to? It's part of your mission? Pawan: Absolutely. Absolutely true.
I would just add, you also called out
because I have done Ph.D, because I'm educationist I have my
school colleges in Mumbai. Thanks God
more than eight thousand students are now taking education in my all educationary class.
What I taught there are some Dabbawalas
who want to educate his children
because of some problem they could not educate.
I came forward. I told man you send your children to me, I will
teach, I will make education absolutely free of cost to these
people, these children. Number two:
if you feel, now in Malaysia, you are passionate to take my interview,
because Dabbawalas are good for that way , all over the world recognize
I want to present same to corporate people. Man look at the story of the
of Dabbawala; how passionate they are working. I know you cannot replicate
their system but you can replicate their cultures:
honesty. What take aways: honesty, passion, commitment,
time management, what do you call it execution, customer
satisfaction. That work I'm presenting to corporate people
Roshan: And ensure that customer is God. Pawan: Customer is the God, absolutely.
Roshan: And that absolutely a brilliant thought. Pawan: So see in every case today
I was delivering to some people, I told them for the day
you are my customer. What is my prime duty, what I'm delivering, all
two hundred people should satisfy while wait, if they are not satisfied
their investment is useless, my tool is useless.
So everybody should think of customer. Now you are thinking
those will look this interview, they should satisfy or you've taken
good interview of good person of good system. You must have.
Roshan: So Lily we've got to do this in Malaysia, we got to make sure the Dabbawala culture
gets integrated into Leaderonomics. Lily: I get it, it's honesty, it's
customer satisfaction, and it's a just making sure that you are always working passionately.
Roshan: And don't forget customer is god right. Lily: Customer is god right.
Roshan: Any words of wisdom that you would like to give our viewers? Pawan: I will
suggest just my opinion to viewers. See if
anybody who do some business. I know the people are doing business
to earn money but I believe the money earned should be the
second objective. The prime objective: customer service.
You must think what customer need. Roshan: And fulfil that need.
Pawan: Yes, if you attack if you target their need,
and if they are satisfied then money will flawlessly come out automatically.
But because of only you want to earn money
then you lose or you deteriorate your quality.
Because you think for money, but if you think for customer I think your quality will increase
your good will increase, and customer willing to pay anything. Believe me.
So entrepreneur, those who are starting new business; passion
think think think of customer. That's it. I think you will
get a very good business. Maybe India maybe Malaysia. Roshan: Absolutely. And you know
Dr Pawan Agrawal here on the Leaderonomic Show. Dr Pawan, thank you so much for being here. Pawan: Thank you so much
for the nice interview. It was one of the best interview which I face.
[ Together ]: (Laughter) Roshan: Alright. Good take. Pawan: Excellent. Roshan: Dr Pawan Agrawal from the Mumbai
Dabbawala Education Centre here on the Leaderonomic Show.