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>>> PRESENTATION OF "DIALOGUE"
ON IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION IS
MADE POSSIBLE BY THE GENEROUS
SUPPORT OF THE LAURA MOORE
CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION COMMITTED
TO FULFILLING THE MOORE FAMILY'S
LEGACY OF BUILDING THE GREAT
STATE OF IDAHO.
>>> NEXT ON "DIALOGUE," HER
CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES IN
SOUTHERN AFRICA READ LIKE A
NOVEL BUT THEY ARE REAL.
THEY ARE THE SUBJECT OF TWO
BEST-SELLING MEMOIRS.
I TALKED WITH AUTHOR ALEXANDRA
FULLER ABOUT HONESTY, FEAR AND
ACTIVISM, NEXT ON "DIALOGUE."
>>> HELLO, AND WELCOME TO
"DIALOGUE," I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.
WHEN SHE WAS JUST A CHILD,
ALEXANDRA FULLER LEARNED HER WAY
AROUND A SUBMACHINE GUN AND LAND
MINES.
FULLER GREW UP IN SOUTHERN
AFRICA WITH HER PARENTS, WHO
WERE WHITE FARMERS.
IT WAS A TIME WHEN THE COUNTRY
WAS COMING OUT OF COLONIAL RULE
AND CIVIL WARS WERE RAMPANT.
IT EXPOSED THE ULTIMATELY
TENUOUS RULE OF THE REGIME THAT
HAD BEEN IN PLACE.
HER MOTHER WOULD LOSE THREE OF
HER CHILDREN TO DISEASE AND
ACCIDENT, AND VERY NEARLY LOSE
HERSELF TO MANIC DEPRESSION AND
ALCOHOLISM.
FULLER OUTLINES HER OWN COMING
OF AGE AND HER MOTHERS.
DON'T MISS "COCKTAIL HOUR UNDER
THE TREE OF FORGETFULNESS" AND
"DON'T LET'S GO TO THE DOGS
TONIGHT."
IN "SCRIBBLING THE CAT," SHE
WRITE BUSY A RHODESIA SOLDIER
HAUNTED BY HIS PAST.
AND "THE LEGEND OF COLTON H.
BRYANT," THE STORY OF AN OIL RIG
WORKER WHO WORKED AND DIED IN
WYOMING, WHERE SHE NOW LIVES.
I SPOKE WITH ALEXANDRA FULLER AT
THE SUN VALLEY WRITERS'
CONFERENCE.
I STARTED BY ASKING HER IF SHE
HAD ALWAYS WANTED TO WRITE ABOUT
HER LIFE.
>> I BELIEVE THE FIRST THING TO
BE SAID WAS ACTUALLY I STEERED
AWAY FROM MY OWN MATERIAL FOR A
LONG TIME, BECAUSE TO ME IT WAS
AN ORDINARY CHILDHOOD.
ACTUALLY GROWING UP IN WAR, WITH
INSECURITY, WITH THE SPECTER OF
POVERTY, IS THE MOST COMMON
EXPERIENCE FOR MOST PEOPLE
GLOBALLY.
IT'S UNUSUAL I THINK TO BE
MIDDLE CLASS AND SECURE.
AND THAT IS A FALLACY, A VENEER
OVER A TREMBLING STRUCTURE AS
WE'VE SEEN WITH THE FINANCIAL
CRISIS AND CLIMATE CHANGE.
YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT THAT AS A
5-YEAR-OLD OR A 10-YEAR-OLD.
I ALWAYS DID KNOW I WAS GOING TO
WRITE.
I THOUGHT, THOUGH, AND RATHER
GRANDLY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO
WRITE GREAT NOVELS, INSTEAD I
WROTE 10 NOVELS.
THEY WERE ALL REJECTED BY
EVERYONE.
AND MY AGENT FIRED ME.
AND I FELT LIKE I HAD NOWHERE
LEFT TO GO BUT THE TRUTH.
I ACTUALLY WASN'T EXPECTING TO
GET PUBLISHED.
I WROTE A VERY CANDID BOOK ABOUT
MY CHILDHOOD.
BY THEN I HAD MOVED TO THE
STATES AND I HAD LIVED HERE FOR
ABOUT SIX YEARS.
AND I REALIZED THAT MY CHILDREN
WERE GOING TO BE AMERICANS.
AND THAT THEY WOULDN'T KNOW WHO
I WAS, AND THAT THIS PIECE OF ME
DOESN'T GET EXPRESSED IN THIS
CULTURE.
I THINK THAT A LOT OF IMMIGRANTS
HAVE A SENSE OF BEING
BICULTURAL, YOU EVEN SOUND
DIFFERENT WHEN YOU GO HOME OR
WHEN YOU'RE ON THE PHONE TO
PEOPLE FROM HOME.
WHEN YOU ARE IN THE U.S., YOU
BECOME THIS OTHER THING.
NOT THAT THAT'S NOT AUTHENTIC,
IT'S JUST NOT EFFECTIVE FOR ME
TO RUN AROUND HERE AS A ZAM
BEIAN.
I WANTED MY CHILDREN TO KNOW,
THIS IS WHERE YOU CAME FROM.
IT WASN'T THE ROMANCE YOU READ
ABOUT IN OUT OF AFRICA, AND THE
FLAME TREES OF THIKA.
THERE WAS A LOT OF RACISM.
>> ONCE YOU DECIDED TO SHIFT
FROM NOVEL TO MEMOIR, IT WAS A
RUSH.
I DON'T MEAN A RUSH AS A HIGH,
BUT THE WORDS JUST CAME TUMBLING
OUT.
>> WAS IT SIX WEEKS?
>> YES.
>> AND THAT WAS BECAUSE YOU WERE
TELLING THE TRUTH.
>> I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
>> IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN A SCARY
TRUTH AT TIMES.
WHEN I WAS READING IT, YOU'RE
WRITING WAS VERY, VERY HONEST,
ASSESSMENTS OF YOUR FAMILY
MEMBERS AND SOME OF THE THINGS
THAT HAPPENED.
AND YET YOU DIDN'T --
>> WELL, LISTEN, I THINK THAT IT
IS VERY SOUTHERN AFRICAN TO HAVE
AN INTERNAL EDITOR WHO'S TAKEN
PERMANENT VACATION.
THE PEOPLE I GREW UP AROUND FEEL
-- I'M SHOCKED A LITTLE BIT, I
GO BACK TO ZAMBIA FOR A MONTH
EVERY YEAR.
IT TAKES ME A WHILE TO REMEMBER,
PEOPLE HERE ARE VERY DIRECT AND
BLUNT.
AND THAT'S IN PART BECAUSE OF
THE LIFE AND DEATH KIND OF, YOU
KNOW, FABRIC OF BEING THERE.
PEOPLE DON'T MESS AROUND.
THERE'S NOT TOO MUCH TO PROTECT
THEMSELVES.
FROM THERE'S LESS TO LOSE IN A
WAY BECAUSE YOU'RE SO MUCH
CLOSER TO THE REALITY OF THE
INEVIDENT I BELIEVE.
>> IF SOMETHING'S GOING TO
HAPPEN TO YOU TOMORROW, SAY
WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND TODAY.
>> ABSOLUTELY, WHY BEAT ABOUT
THE BUSH.
>> BUT THEY ARE NOT PUBLISHING A
BOOK THEIR MOTHER IS GOING READ
OR THEIR FAMILY, AND YOU DID.
>> I WASN'T EXPECTING THE BOOK
TO BE PUBLISHED.
HAVING BEEN REJECTED BY EVERY
MAJOR PUBLISHING HOUSE IN THE
COUNTRY AND FIRED BY MY AGENT, I
EXPECTED IT TO BE SHELVED.
I WASN'T EXPECTING MY AGENT TO
GET IT PUBLISHED.
EVEN NOT EXPECTING IT TO GET
PUBLISHED, I WASN'T -- THERE
WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I
WAS VERY AWARE OF.
SOME OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH
HAVING CHILDREN MYSELF BY THEN.
BY THE TIME I WROTE "DON'T LET'S
GO TO THE DOGS TONIGHT," MY
CHILDREN WERE SORT THE EIGHT AND
SIX, MY OLDEST CHILDREN.
AND I WAS UNDONE BY THE
REALIZATION OF WHAT MY MOTHER
HAD GONE THROUGH.
SHE LOST THREE OF HER FIVE
CHILDREN.
THE LOSS OF MY CHILDHOOD -- FOR
MOST OF MY CHILDHOOD SHE'S A
VERY VIVID PERSON, LARGER THAN
LIFE, TALK ABOUT UNCENSORED.
THE ONE THING I COULDN'T BRING
MYSELF TO DO IN THE MEMOIR IS
JUDGE HER.
IN THE EARLY TO MID 1990S, THE
MEMOIR, LOOK WHAT A HORRIFIC
LIFE I HAD, IT WAS VERY POPULAR.
THEN I READ "RUNNING IN THE
FAMILY," "THE LIARS CLUB" AND
"THE MEADOWS."
THEY CHANGED EVERYTHING, THEY
TOLD A VERY LOVING STORY ABOUT
FLAWED PEOPLE.
YOU CAN'T PUT THOSE BOOKS DOWN
BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU'RE HOLDING
THE TRUTH, NOT SOME
EMBELLISHMENT.
I THINK WE ARE SO AFRAID -- THIS
IS A CONVERSATION I HAVE SO
MUCH.
THERE'S ALMOST A SORT OF
ACCUSATION OF, WELL, HOW COULD
YOU HAVE BEEN SO HONEST?
WHICH MAKES ME REALIZE MOST OF
US MUST BE LYING OUR PANTS OFF
MOST OF THE TIME, AND THAT'S THE
MOST ACCEPTED PART OF OUR
CULTURE.
WE SOMEHOW HAVE MADE A CONTRACT
WITH ONE ANOTHER NOT TO SPEAK
OUR TRUTH.
WHY, AND WHO IS BEING HURT BY
THAT?
THE POWERFUL ARE THE ONES THAT
END UP WITH THE VOICES IN THOSE
CIRCUMSTANCES.
THAT BEGAN TO RUB AND IRRITATE
ME, BECAUSE IT MEANT THAT THE
VOICES OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS
AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WERE NOT
BEING EXPRESSED.
SO -- AND THAT'S WHAT THESE
BOOKS, "OUT OF AFRICA," THE
ROMANCE AND HOW HEAVENLY IT WAS,
AND IGNORED THE 44 MILLION
PEOPLE IN KENYA OR 46 MILLION IN
ZIMBABWE WHO WERE VOICELESS, AND
IGNORED THE PRESSURE OF THE OWE
PRESSERS.
YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE YOUR
FOOT OFF THE HEAD OF THE PEOPLE
YOU ARE OPPRESSING, IN CASE
THINK RISE UP.
OF COURSE ALTHOUGH I LOVE MY
PARENTS, I WASN'T HOLDING THEM
UP OR PUTTING THEM UNDER A
MAGNIFYING GLASS.
I WAS SAYING ONLY WAY THIS BOOK
MAKES SENSE OR IS OF ANY VALUE
WHATSOEVER IS IF I SAY, THIS IS
REPRESENTATIVE OF A BIGGER
WHOLE.
THIS IS WHAT OPPRESSION LOOKS
LIKE.
IT LOOKS LIKE LOVE AND FAMILY.
IT IS ONLY PERPETUATED IF WE ALL
AGREE WITH THAT COMPLICIT, NOT
IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN, DON'T
AIR YOUR DIRTY LAUNDRY IN
PUBLIC, AND LET'S JUST BE QUIET
BIT.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK
ME, THEY ARE THE INTIMATE
STORIES OF INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOUR
FAMILY AND THE MEMOIRS, AND THEN
THE LARGER STORIES.
WE DON'T JUST LEARN ABOUT YOUR
FAMILY, WE LEARN ABOUT AFRICA
AND WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE
TIME.
AND IN YOUR BOOK ABOUT THE OIL
RIG WORKER IN WYOMING, WE OF
COURSE LEARN ABOUT HIM.
BUT WE ALSO LEARN ABOUT MUCH
LARGER ISSUES.
IS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU, TO
HAVE THESE INTIMATE STORIES THAT
THEN LEAD TO A LARGER PROBLEM OR
SOMETHING THAT MAKES THE READER
JUST A LITTLE BIT UNCOMFORTABLE?
>> I DON'T SET OUT TO MAKE
ANYONE UNCOMFORTABLE BUT THE
WORLD'S A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE
PLACE.
IF YOU'RE NOT OUTRAGED YOU'RE
NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
WE'VE REALLY COME AWAY FROM THE
ABILITY TO HAVE A SAFE
CONVERSATION.
ONE OF THE GREATEST GIFTS FOR ME
COMING OVER HERE AS AN I AM
GRANT, I ACTUALLY GOT SWORN IN
AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN IN■■
WYOMING.
THE MAN WHO DID THE SWEARING IN
WAS THE DENTIST.
WE WERE ALL THERE WEEPING.
IT WAS A BIGGER DEAL IN A LOT OF
WAYS THAN I ANTICIPATED.
HE SAYS, WHATEVER IT IS THAT
BROUGHT YOU HERE, WHATEVER
HUNGER BROUGHT YOU TO THIS
COUNTRY, WHATEVER HAS DRIVEN YOU
FOR THE PLACE YOU LOVE MORE THAN
ANYTHING ELSE, DON'T LOSE YOUR
HUNGER.
BRING US YOUR HUNGER AND YOUR
ANGER, THAT'S YOUR GIFT TO US.
DON'T LOSE IT.
IT WAS SO MOVING AND SO
COMPELLING.
I NEVER HAVE FORGOTTEN HIS
WORDS, AND FOR ME, COMING FROM
SOUTHERN AFRICA WITH YEARS OF
APARTHEID, AND YEARS OF
REPRESSION, FOR ME THAT'S
FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
AND THE MUCH MORE RATHER
UNSPOKEN PIECE OF THAT IS THAT
IT TAKES INCREDIBLE COURAGE TO
BASEBALL TO LISTEN OPENLY TO
PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPRESSING THEIR
OPINIONS.
AND THAT THAT ISN'T REALLY WHAT
I TEACH YOU HERE.
THEY TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE
FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND THEY
DON'T TELL YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE
OF THE IT YOU NEED TO LISTEN.
FOR ME TO SPOUT OFF MY POLEMIC,
MY BIGGEST STORY, THE POWER OF
THE OIL COMPANIES, WHICH I THINK
HAVE UNDUE POWER, AND THE LACK
OF REGULATIONS ON THE OILFIELDS
HAVING TO DO WITH HUMAN SAFETY
-- WYOMING HAS IT HIGHEST DEATH
RATE IN THE NATION AMONGST
WORKERS, MOST ALWAYS THE HIGHEST
OR IN THE TOP FIVE, BECAUSE WE
CONTRIBUTE TO SO MANY DEATHS ON
THE RIGS.
FOR ME TO SAY THAT I KNOW
ALREADY IN SOME WAYS I'M ABUSING
MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND I'M
MAKING IT HARDER FOR THE READER
TO HEAR ME.
BECAUSE THAT ISN'T A STORY WE
CAN ALL RELATE TO.
BUT IF I JUST TELL A STORY OF
ONE MAN AND HIS FAMILY, WHO WAS
KILLED ON THE RIGS IN 2006, THEN
WE BECOME ATTACHED TO HIM AND HE
IS ALL OF US.
AND WHAT FALLS AWAY IS THE
THINGS THAT DIVIDE US IN THIS
COUNTRY, WHICH IS YOUR POLITICAL
AFFILIATIONS.
AND YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU'RE SENSE
OF WHETHER OR NOT OIL COMPANIES
HAVE A RIGHT TO DRILL, WITH OR
WITHOUT REGULATION.
IF ALL OF THAT FALLS APART AND
I'M TELLING YOU THE STORY OF A
MAN, THAT MAKES IT QUIETER.
IT TAKES THE FLAMMATION OUT OF
THE DISCUSSION, I HOPE.
>> HE WAS DEAD WHEN YOU DECIDED
TO WRITE ABOUT HIM.
YOU CAME ACROSS HIS OBITUARY
WHILE YOU WERE RESEARCHING AN
ARTICLE.
UNLIKE YOUR MEMOIR, WHERE YOU
COULD DRAW ON YOUR OWN MEMORIES
AND TALK WITH YOUR FAMILY AND
VISIT AFRICA, YOU HAD TO COME UP
WITH HIS LIFE DETAILS THROUGH
OTHER PEOPLE, YES?
PAINT A PORTRAIT OF SOMEBODY
THAT WAS NO LONGER AROUND TO
TALK TO.
>> AND IT WAS -- WHAT WAS
AMAZING WAS THAT HE WAS 26.
SO THE PERIOD OF TIME THAT I
NEED TO DO COVER WAS ACTUALLY
RELATIVELY SHORT.
I DID A LOT OF DRIVING BECAUSE
COLTON DID A LOT OF DRIVING.
SO I REENACTED HIS LIFE THE BEST
THAT I COULD, SO I WOULD HEAR
THAT HE HAD PUSHED CATTLE AND
BEEN ON CATTLE DRIVES.
SO I GOT MYSELF ON CATTLE DRIVES
IN WYOMING AND I SPENT HOURS AND
HOURS AND HOURS ON THE OIL
PATCH.
I WENT BACK TO SCHOOL.
I WENT TO THE CHINESE RESTAURANT
WHERE HE HAD HIS WEDDING LUNCH
AND I LISTENED TO THE STORIES OF
HIM.
I SAW VIDEOTAPE OF HIM, AND HIS
BEST FRIENDS THAT COULD DO HIS
VOICE.
IT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME THAT I
CAPTURE THIS ACCURATELY BECAUSE
I FELT SUCH RESPONSIBILITY
TOWARDS HIS FAMILY.
BUT ALSO BECAUSE I HAD TAKEN ON
THIS LARGER ISSUE.
I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE VERY
IMPORTANT THAT I CAPTURE THE END
OF HIS LIFE AS ACCURATELY AS I
COULD.
THE LACK OF RESPECT WITH WHICH
THE DRILLING COMPANY TREATED HIS
FAMILY.
THE MOMENT AT WHICH I KNEW I WAS
GOING TO HAVE TO WRITE THIS
STORY WAS WHEN COLTON'S MOTHER
TOLD ME THEY WERE IN THE
HOSPITAL AND COLTON WAS ON LIFE
SUPPORT, THE SAFETY OFFICER
SHOWED UP AND SAID, I CAN'T
BELIEVE I'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH
THIS, EXPLETIVE.
I'VE BEEN UP 36 HOURS ON ANOTHER
ACCIDENT AND NOW I'VE GOT TO
DEAL WITH THIS.
WHAT THE SAFETY OFFICER SAID TO
THE FAMILY IS, I'LL TELL WHAT
YOU WE'RE GOING TO DO.
IF HE DIES WE'LL GET YOU A HOTEL
ROOM FOR THE NIGHT.
>> I THOUGHT, THIS ISN'T A
MISSED FLIGHT, YOU'VE MISSED
YOUR CONNECTION BECAUSE OF BAD
WEATHER, THIS IS YOUR SON THAT'S
DYING.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE VERY
ACCUSTOMED TO IN OUR CULTURE IS
THAT WE LOOK UP TO AND LISTEN TO
POWER.
MAYBE THAT'S ALWAYS THE CASE.
BUT WE ASSUME WE CAN TREAT
PEOPLE WHO AREN'T AS EDUCATED
AND POWERFUL AS US BADLY,
BECAUSE WE ASSUME THAT THEY ARE
VOICELESS, THAT THEIR STORIES
WON'T MAKE IT INTO THE PUBLIC
ATMOSPHERE AND WE WON'T BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE WAYS IN
WHICH WE HAVE TREATED THEM.
>> THE FAMILY EMBRACED OR
ACCEPTED THE BOOK, EVEN THOUGH
HIS DAD WORKS --
>> THE WHOLE FAMILY WORKS.
>> -- IN THE OIL INDUSTRY.
AND THE OIL COMPANIES, HAVE
THERE BEEN IN YOUR VIEW ANY
CHANGES OR IMPROVEMENTS IN
SAFETY SINCE YOUR BOOK CAME OUT?
>> THE PROBLEM WITH THE
IMPROVEMENTS AND SAFETY AS I SEE
IT, IS THAT THEY ARE VOLUNTARY.
I DON'T THINK THAT VOLUNTARY AND
SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS SHOULD BE IN
THE SAME SENTENCE.
I THINK THEY SHOULD BE MANDATED.
THESE AREN'T TRIVIAL ACCIDENTS
OUT ON AN OIL PATCH.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSEQUENCES
ARE NOT TRIVIAL, AS WE'VE SEEN
IN THE GULF OF MEXICO AND WITH
WATER CONTAMINATIONS IN PASSIVE
VEIL 81, ALLEGEDLY FROM THE
HYDRO FRACKING PROCESS.
I THINK THE MISTAKES THAT HAPPEN
ARE FATAL, ENORMOUS AND
IRREVERSIBLE.
SO THE OVERREGULATION IN MY MIND
IS FINE.
I HAVE TO SAY THAT I'VE GONE TO
MY OWN TRANSITION OF THIS, AT A
POINT WHERE I FELT STRONGLY
THAT, YOU KNOW, OIL AND GAS
DRILLING WAS PART OF WYOMING, A
VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THE
WYOMING ECONOMY AND IT PROVIDED
JOBS AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT
HAD BEEN A PART OF THE STATE FOR
A LONG TIME.
AS I HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN CHANGES
OTHER THAN VOLUNTEER CHANGES IN
SAFETY, I'VE BECOME MORE AND
MORE OUTSPOKEN.
>> DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF TO
BE AN ACTIVIST?
>> YES.
>> IN THIS AREA?
>> UH-HUH.
>> WELL, IN ALL AREAS.
>> YES.
>> YOUR BOOKS ARE WORKS OF
ACTIVISM?
>> WELL, LOOK, I DON'T THINK YOU
CAN PULL THE THREAD OF WAR IN
THE CONGO, AND YOU PULL THAT
THREAD AND IT'LL WIND UP WITH
YOUR CELL PHONE IN IDAHO.
WE'VE BECOME USED TO TRYING TO
SEPARATE OUT, WHAT COULD THE WAR
IN CONGO POSSIBLY MEAN FOR ME.
AND HOW UNCOMFORTABLE WE ARE
WITH THE FACT THAT IT HAS
EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HOW WE
CONSUME AND LIVE.
WE ARE ALL IN STRICT BLY BOUND
TOGETHER.
I THINK WE HAVE TO START -- WE
MUST, THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO
THINK OF THIS OTHER THAN THE
RIGHTS OF WOMEN AND THE RIGHTS
OF MINORITIES, THE RIGHTS OF
HOMOSEXUALS, THE RIGHTS OF
GRIZZLY BEARS, THE RIGHTS OF
WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN CONGO,
IT'S ALL SOMETHING THAT IS
CONNECTED.
>> TALK TO ME ABOUT THE
CONNECTION BETWEEN YOUR LIFE IN
WYOMING AND AFRICA.
BECAUSE AGAIN, READING THE
BOOKS, THERE WERE SOME
SIMILARITIES I FELT IN THE LAND,
AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED ON THE
LAND, BETWEEN YOUR PARENTS AND
THE WORKERS IN WYOMING.
>> UH-HUH.
>> DO YOU SENSE A CONNECTION?
>> I'M ALWAYS MORE COMFORTABLE
IN THE TRENCHES.
AND WHEN I WAS DOING COLTON'S
STORY, AND I HAD ALREADY
INTERVIEWED HIS PARENTS, THEY
SAID, I THINK YOU SHOULD GO AND
TALK TO HIS BEST FRIEND JAKE, HE
STILL LIVES OUT ON THE OIL
PATCH.
JAKE LIVES IN A CABIN THERE, AND
I WALKED IN.
AND JAKE'S 7-YEAR-OLD SON WAS
PLAYING WITH A GUN ON THE FLOOR.
JAKE LOOKED OVER AND SAID,
THAT'S RIGHT, JAKE, REMEMBER, IF
YOU SHOOT IT, YOU'VE GOT TO EAT
IT.
>> IT WAS ALSO A VERY DIRECT
CONNECTION WITH A LOVE OF THE
LAND, NOT BECAUSE IT'S JUST
BEAUTIFUL, BUT BECAUSE IT
SUSTAINS LIFE.
EVEN THOUGH JAKE AND COLTON WERE
ENGAGED IN AN INDUSTRY THAT AT
THE END OF THE DAY I KNOW IS
DESTRUCTIVE.
>> WHEN I READ YOUR
DESCRIPTIONS, WHETHER IT WAS OF
THE PEOPLE OR THE LAND, I FELT
AS IF I WAS THERE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT,
HOW LONG IT TAKES YOU TO COME UP
WITH THE WORDS.
I CAN ALMOST SMELL THE SMELLS
THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
BUT IT'S VERY POWERFUL WRITING,
AND I WONDERED, DOES IT FLOW
FROM YOU PRETTY EASILY, THOSE
SENSORY DETAILS?
>> IT'S VERY HARD WON.
IT'S VERY HARD WON.
IT'S ALMOST AS IF -- I THINK YOU
HAVE TO -- IN A WAY I THINK WE
HAVE BEEN CIRCLING AROUND THIS
ALL ALONG.
THE QUESTION REALLY THAT YOU'RE
ASKING ME, WHO ARE YOU?
WHAT DO YOU USE TO PROTECT
YOURSELF FROM THE WORLD?
I THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION I
ASK MYSELF ALL THE TIME.
WHAT THING AM I USING TO PROTECT
MYSELF FROM HEARING OR SEEING
YOU, WHAT PREJUDICES AM I
BRINGING TO THE STORY THAT'S
DISABLING ME FROM HEARING OR
SEEING YOU?
>> AND I THINK WE ALL HAVE OUR
WAYS OF PROTECTING OURSELVES
FROM FEELING TOO MUCH, BECAUSE
IT'S RAW AND PAINFUL AND VERY
REWARDING TO REMOVE ALL OF
THE-ISMS FROM YOURSELF AND JUST
TELL THE STORY.
IT GIFT I THINK IS THAT THE
SENSORY MATERIAL COMES TO YOU,
AND THEN THE WORDS THAT CONVEYS
THAT TO THE READER.
NOT EVERY READER FEELS AS IF I
SUCCEED, EITHER.
THAT'S THE OTHER THING YOU'VE
GOT TO DO AS A WRITER, AND
THAT'S REALIZE YOU CAN ONLY
REALLY WRITE FOR AN AUDIENCE OF
ONE.
>> THERE IS A THEME A THREAD OR
A CONNECTION BETWEEN ALL THE
BOOKS THAT YOU'VE WRITTEN?
>> YOU DON'T KNOW THIS AT THE
TIME.
BUT FOR ME, THAT THEME AND
CONNECTION IS THAT ALL MY BOOKS
ARE ANTIWAR BOOKS AT THE END OF
THE DAY.
MY BOOKS, MAYBE THE ONLY BOOK
THAT IS DIRECTLY ABOUT WAR IS
"SCRIBBLING THE CAT."
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I
THINK ALL MY WORK REVOLVES
AROUND, WHAT IS IT THAT WE'RE
FIGHTING FOR AND WHY.
AND THAT'S ALMOST ALWAYS BECAUSE
WE UNDERSTAND AS HUMANS THAT
RESOURCES ARE LIMITED.
ANYONE WHO LOOKS AND BEHAVES AND
BELIEVES AS WE DO ARE ENTITLED
TO THE RESOURCES.
AND IF YOU DON'T LOOK, BELIEVE
AND SOUND LIKE WE DO, YOU'RE
NOT.
THE GIFT OF GROWING UP IN
RHODESIA WAS THAT BETWEEN 25 AND
100,000 WHITE PEOPLE FELT
ENTITLED TO THE RESOURCES OF AN
ENTIRE COUNTRY, IN WHICH SIX
MILLION PEOPLE LIVED.
I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT
DIFFERENT FROM NOW LIVING IN THE
U.S. WHERE SOMETHING LIKE 5% OF
THE WORLD'S POPULATION FEELS
ENTITLED TO 25% OF THE WORLD'S
RESOURCES.
I THINK THE INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF
ENERGY AND VIOLENCE WE EXPEND
GETTING THOSE RESOURCES.
>> SO THE WORK CAN BE INTERNAL,
AS WELL.
>> I THINK THE WAR IS ALWAYS
INTERNAL, AND IT'S USUALLY FEAR,
FEAR OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH, FEAR
OF OURSELVES, FEAR OF OUR OWN
APPETITES.
>> I HAVE TO SAY YOU DON'T HAVE
TO RESPOND TO THIS, BECAUSE I
KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO
NECESSARILY TALK ABOUT WHAT
YOU'RE WORKING ON IN THE FUTURE,
BECAUSE IT COULD CHANGE.
BUT IN READING YOUR WORK, I FELT
THAT PERHAPS WRITING ABOUT
WOLVES, WHICH IS A STORY IN
WYOMING WHERE YOU LIVE, ALSO
INVOLVE AS LOT OF FEAR, ALSO
INVOLVES RESOURCES, THE LAND,
THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING
RICH AND REWARDING THERE.
>> AND I THINK THAT WOLVES ARE
WHAT PEOPLE IN WYOMING BELIEVE
IN INSTEAD OF THE DEVIL OR GOD.
IT'S A MUCH-MYTHOLOGIZED THINGS.
THIS POOR MAGNIFICENT INNOCENT
ANIMAL.
JUST BEING THIS ANIMAL, WHATEVER
A WOLF IS, THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY
AND BELIEF SYSTEM THAT WE THROW
ON TOP OF IT, THE AM OF ANGER,
THE WAY THAT IT'S BECOME SUCH A
DIVISIVE ISSUE, OUR INABILITY TO
HEAR ONE ANOTHER AROUND THE
ISSUE OF WOLVES, I THINK THAT IS
SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO
EXPLORE.
AND IT SUITS MY, I THINK, SENSE
OF CONTRARINESS.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK MIGHT BE
YOUR NEXT ADVENTURE?
BESIDES BEING A MOTHER.
IT'S PROBABLY AN ADVENTURE ALL
THE TIME.
>> WELL, I -- BOY, I DON'T KNOW.
I WOULD HATE TO THROW OUT TO THE
UNIVERSE THAT I KNOW WHAT'S
COMING NEXT, BECAUSE I DON'T
THINK WE EVER DO.
BUT I DO KNOW THAT I AM GOING OH
ON ASSIGNMENT TO ZIMBABWE AND
IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO
BE BACK THERE WITH MY WORKING
BOOTS ON.
AND TO SEE AND DOCUMENT WHAT'S
HAPPENED TO PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN A
FAILED STATE, AND WHO
NONETHELESS, WITH THE LOGICAL
OPT MIX CONTINUING TO HAVE
CHILDREN, EDUCATE THEM,
CONTINUING TO BELIEVE IN A WORLD
THAT WILL SUSTAIN THEIR DREAMS.
SO FOR ME IT'S ALWAYS A HUMBLING
LESSON TO GO BACK TO SOUTHERN
AFRICA.
IT'S A WONDERFUL MIRROR, AND
IT'S A WONDERFUL TEACHER.
>> I HAVE NEVER MET SOMEBODY WHO
HAS SPENT TIME IN AFRICA, NO
MATTER HOW SHORT THAT TIME IS,
NO MATTER HOW ILL THEY BECAME
FROM VARIOUS DISEASES, WHO
DIDN'T COME BACK TRANSFORMED IN
SOME WAY.
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S THAT
EXPERIENCE OF THE AUTHENTICITY.
THERE'S NO ROOM FOR THE FAKE
THINGS WE DO TO PROTECT
OURSELVES AND THAT SORT OF
POSTURING.
BUT I THINK WE'RE SO USED TO
DOING IT, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW
WE'RE DOING IT.
WE AREN'T REALLY SURE WHAT IT'S
PROTECTING US.
FROM WHEN YOU GO OH OUT TO
SOUTHERN AFRICA, AT LEAST IN MY
EXPERIENCE, THOSE THINGS FALL
AWAY AND YOU MEET YOURSELF FOR
THE FIRST TIME.
WHEN PEOPLE SAY, I WAS
TRANSFORMED BY AFRICA, WHAT I
REALLY WANT TO SAY IS, HERE AND
HERE, MEET YOURSELF, THAT'S ALL
IT WAS.
YOU'RE STILL THERE, THE SAME
PERSON.
YOU PLACE DIDN'T CHANGE YOU, YOU
CHANGED YOU, YOU MET YOURSELF
THERE.
IT'S POSSIBLE TO BE THAT SAME
PERSON.
BUT I'M ALSO VERY AWARE OF HOW
REALLY -- HOW LITTLE ROOM WE
HAVE FOR AUTHENTICITY.
>> FINALLY, PERHAPS AN UNFAIR
QUESTION, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT
AFRICA, OR PARTICULARLY THE
PARTS IN WHICH YOU LIVED, ARE
YOU HOPEFUL AND OPTIMISTIC IN
SOME WAYS?
EACH COUNTRY IS VERY DIFFERENT.
WE TEND TO LUMP THE WHOLE
CONTINENT TOGETHER, IT'S A VERY
VARIED COUNTRY.
>> JUST PICKING OUT ZIMBABWE,
FOR EXAMPLE, UNDER THIS
CRIPPLING REGIME, ESPECIALLY FOR
THE LAST 12 YEARS, AND THIS
ISN'T THE EXPERIENCE THAT EVERY
SINGLE DIM BOB WAY RESIDENT YOU
MEET, OF COURSE -- BUT ON THE
HOLD, WHEN I SPEAK OF ZIMBABWE
AND PEOPLE AND THEIR LOGICAL
OPTIMISM AND LIVING IN A FAILED
STATE, THAT'S VERY EDUCATED,
DYNAMIC, IMAGINATIVE PEOPLE ARE
TRADING CHICKENS FOR HEALTH
CARE.
NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, NOT
BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK THEY
DESERVE BETTER, BUT BECAUSE THEY
DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.
YES, DO I HAVE HOPE BECAUSE I
THINK THAT SPIRIT TO BE CREATIVE
OR IMAGINATIVE AND NOT GIVE UP
IN YOUR COUNTRY, WILL LIVE ON
AND ENDURE BEYOND A
DICTATORSHIP.
TYRANNY ALWAYS FAILS IN THE END.
>> YOU'VE BEEN LISTENING TO
ALEXANDRA FULLER, THE AUTHOR OF
SEVERAL BEST-SELLING MEMOIRS
ABOUT HER LIFE IN AFRICA,
INCLUDING "DON'T LET'S GO TO THE
DOGS TONIGHT" AND "COCKTAIL HOUR
UNDER THE TREE OF
FORGETFULNESS."
IF YOU'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT
FULLER OR WATCH THE INTERVIEW
AGAIN, CHECK OUT THE "DIALOGUE"
WEBSITE.
GO TO IDAHOPTV.ORG AND CLICK ON
"DIALOGUE."
THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN WATCH PAST
INTERVIEW FROM THE SUN VALLEY
WRITERS' CONFERENCE.
I'D LIKE TO THANK IT IS
ORGANIZERS OF THAT EVENT FOR
FINDING TIME IN THEIR SCHEDULE
POSITION AUTHORS INTERVIEWS.
THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN.
I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.
Captioning Performed By LNS Captioning www.LNScaptioning.com
♪♪
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