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OBASOHAN: America’s democracy is not the oldest, but perhaps the most successful -- but still at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to voting. Today's topic is compulsory voting. My name is Victor Obasohan. Professor Falcon will be making the argument that compulsory voting ought to be a necessity in America. We're going to watch how he pulls this off.
FALCON: Very simple. We complain in this society all the time that not enough people vote. Voting, voter turnout is at historically low levels. So that when we compare democracy in America to democracy around the world and we see that more people vote in European countries, Asian countries, than vote here in the United States, how can we hold ourselves up as the model of democracy in the world, when half of Americans don't even bother in the first place?
OBASOHAN: This is one of the beauties of America's democracy. You know, have you heard of the word “freedom,” Professor Falcon? Freedom to vote or not to vote. This is what separates us from other countries.
FALCON: Yes. But I've also heard of citizenship and responsibility and duty and obligation. We make Americans, basically, serve on jury duty. That's a civic duty. When you become 18, you get your driver's license in most states. You are automatically put on a list for jury duty.
OBASOHAN: You don't know how to get out of jury duty? There are ways to get out of this. But I won’t say that to our students.
FALCON: No. There are legitimate reasons to get off of jury duty, but people have to prove their reason to get off of jury duty. People should have to vote because it's a responsibility, it's a right that too many people have sacrificed for.
OBASOHAN: Where are you going to stop, Professor? I'm shocked at this -- that you're making this argument.
FALCON: I'm not saying who they should vote for. I'm just saying that they should vote.
OBASOHAN: I understand you're not saying that. You are suggesting that we are going to be like North Korea, Cuba, where the government, you know, will pick us up, you know, ship us --
FALCON: There's a difference, and you know there's a big difference. They don't have multiparty systems. They don't have all the freedoms that we have in this society.
OBASOHAN: But multi- or not multi-, you are suggesting that there must be compulsory voting.
FALCON: We can afford -- the average American can afford to spend 20 minutes every four years or every two years. Americans can spend an hour if they can spend an hour in traffic.
OBASOHAN: Leave it up to me. Don't ask the government to pick me up, force me. Are you going to be suggesting --
FALCON: Why don't we make it voluntary for people to pay taxes?
OBASOHAN: Oh, that, too. I'm for that.
FALCON: If people want to drive, they have to get a driver's license.
OBASOHAN: I'm for that.
FALCON: If they want to buy a gun, they have to get a permit. I say if you want to be a citizen, you have to vote. I don't think that's asking for too much.
OBASOHAN: That is the freedom we have in this society, to vote or not to vote. Leave it up to us, you know. That is the fabric of this society. I don't want to be like a European, where you have to register me. You're violating my privacy.
FALCON: How is that violating somebody's privacy?
OBASOHAN: You are taking my identity.
FALCON: You're taking information you freely gave up when you signed up for a driver's license.
OBASOHAN: I may not want to give it up. I may not want to give it up for that particular purpose, to vote.
FALCON: Was it an invasion of your privacy when you applied for a driver's license?
OBASOHAN: But --
FALCON: Wait. Wait. Answer the question. Was it an invasion of your privacy? No.
OBASOHAN: No. I'm going to flip it around to you. I’m going to flip it around. When do you -- are you going to be suggesting that those of us who apply for a driver's license automatically will be registered to vote when we may not want to vote? What are you doing to us?
FALCON: Simply, yes.
OBASOHAN: You are making this a police state.
FALCON: A police state? You are exaggerating.
OBASOHAN: You are making this a police state saying we have to vote. You want a driver's license? You go vote. You want a job? You go vote. I mean, where is the freedom? Many of us came here for that purpose -- freedom in America -- and you are taking it away.
FALCON: Is it a police state when we require people to have their children enrolled in school, public or private? We have compulsory education in the United States. I don't hear you calling that a police state.
OBASOHAN: No. I call it a police state.
FALCON: Then you're exaggerating.
OBASOHAN: If I want my kids to go to school, okay. If I don't want them to go to school, they can stay home. My choice. That is freedom. Freedom.
FALCON: What is the burden imposed on citizens by asking them to vote?
OBASOHAN: I may have better things to do.
FALCON: What if we make voting easier?
OBASOHAN: Well, you can try, but still leave it up to me to decide.
FALCON: As it is now, the United States makes it harder for people to participate because we require citizens individually to register whereas basically every other modern democracy in the world today automatically registers. It makes it easier for people to participate.
OBASOHAN: My fear, Professor Falcon, is that this collection of data -- what are you going to do with it? I think you are driving us to a police kind of state. I’m afraid you are going to make us a North Korea.
FALCON: Americans give up personal information all the time.
OBASOHAN: Voluntarily. Voluntarily. Voluntarily. Not by force.
FALCON: No. They do it because they want to get a credit card.
OBASOHAN: Oh, yes. I give it up because I want a credit card.
FALCON: I'm saying if people want the benefits of citizenship, then they should make the small sacrifice, and I think voting is a small sacrifice to ask.
OBASOHAN: To you, it may be small. To me, it may be a big deal. I may not want to vote. Period. You know, but I want to enjoy the benefits. Then give me the freedom.
FALCON: Since you're talking about freedom so much, you're making it sound like people don't vote because they're free, and they're expressing their freedom.
OBASOHAN: Yes. Yes.
FALCON: People in this country don't vote because, for the most part, we know, because they don't feel like it matters. They don't feel like government listens to them. They don't think it will make a difference. They don't think they have choices. And what I'm saying is that if we put everybody in a voting booth, we will make them responsible. We will make that connection again. People will see that elections actually make choices.
OBASOHAN: You are also making the assumption that most Americans are fully educated on political questions.
FALCON: Doesn't matter. Doesn’t matter.
OBASOHAN: No. It does matter.
FALCON: We're educated, and we're disagreeing about this issue.
OBASOHAN: Most of us Americans do not know about politics. You are suggesting that these ignorant Americans should go out there and vote? They represent a danger to this democracy.
FALCON: The beauty of democracy doesn't lie in the individual expression through voting. The beauty of American democracy lies in the overall picture of democracy in America. And when you have more Americans voting, when you have every American voting, that sends a signal to the world that democracy, self-government, popular consent, the things that this country was based on. We should live up to that.
OBASOHAN: That picture ought to be voluntary, based on the fabric of this society called freedom. I don’t want ignorant Americans who do not know about politics, who don't know what the issues are or the candidates are, voting. That’s a danger to --
FALCON: Then let's switch this argument around a little bit since you went there. Let's make people take tests to vote.
OBASOHAN: Ah! You are going to force us to take tests now.
FALCON: You're the one who said you don't want ignorant Americans voting. How are you going to stop that?
OBASOHAN: Oh, you want a test now?
FALCON: You want ignorant people not to vote. How are you going to tell the difference? I'm saying let everybody vote: intelligent, non-intelligent, schooled, unschooled, rich, poor. Make everybody vote. And you know what will happen? It will even out. It will even things out.
OBASOHAN: I don't think so. I think the ignorant ones may actually win out. They may actually elect somebody, you know.
FALCON: And if that happens, I'll hang out with you and the homies in Nigeria. Some people think they have already won.
OBASOHAN: Yeah. We'll speak about the current administration. But to make the case to protect against this ignorant kind of potential danger to this democracy, then we must let it be voluntary.
FALCON: I think James Madison would not be rolling in his grave. He would be crossing his hands and smiling really big right now because they didn't trust the masses. They didn't trust the people. They built a democracy that was based on an elite. Only the most educated people, the aristocrats of the colonies, would be able to govern. And what I'm saying is that in the over 200 years that have gone by since then, the American people have risen to the challenge. Maybe not everybody equally. But everybody should have a part in the system. There should be an investment besides paying taxes.
OBASOHAN: On the cosmetic side, there is no reason why people should not be involved.
FALCON: Let's make taxation voluntary.
OBASOHAN: I'm for that.
FALCON: Okay. And what's going to happen to your precious freedom when we no longer have a government that can protect it?
OBASOHAN: The government of the United States, perhaps, tends to do too much. Leave us alone. If you can simply leave us alone --like libertarians, we'll be better off. Government, you are too intrusive.
FALCON: I can imagine people who don't vote, looking at the results of an election and saying, "Oh, well, that's not my president. Or, oh, well, that wasn't my choice, but it doesn't matter because I didn't help." We make people vote. We make their number count. I think it will change the way Americans look at politics.
OBASOHAN: I know you know this, Professor Falcon. One of reasons we still elect our president indirectly we have the Electoral College is, because of this danger that most Americans are not fully informed. Now, you want to open the floodgate and say to everybody, "Come and vote." You know, we have tombstone voters in this country? Tombstone voters. People --
FALCON: Another disagreement. We don't have the Electoral College because most Americans are too ignorant.
OBASOHAN: I'm making that argument. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that most Americans are too ignorant to be trusted to votefor the Chief Executive.
FALCON: We have the Electoral College.
OBASOHAN: Yes. But those electors are savvy politicians who understand the system.
FALCON: And who are motivated by self-interest and not intellect. So it's got nothing to do with --
OBASOHAN: Self-interest!
FALCON: It has nothing to do with how much education they have, or how much information they have.
OBASOHAN: Self-interest is an American idea. You know, I mean, Americans we are greedy people. We like --
FALCON: We have the Electoral College because the Framers were afraid of the people. Are you still afraid of the people?
OBASOHAN: Yes. I'm afraid of the people -- ignorant people who cannot --
FALCON: Then you're not talking about democracy. You're talking about something else. I'm talking about democracy, self-government, popular consent, participation, political parties, multiparty systems, interest groups. I'm talking about making people see the connection. And by asking them to spend five minutes every other Tuesday, every six months, or if it's municipal elections. That's not asking for too much.
OBASOHAN: On paper, Professor Falcon, I don't mind Americans participating, but do not force us. Don't make us like Europeans, North Koreans, Cuba. I don't want to be like those people. I want to have that choice.
FALCON: By making people vote in the United States, we're not making them Cubans.
OBASOHAN: Oh, yes. You are saying, "like." We may not be Cubans, but we are “like.”
FALCON: By taxing people mandatory in this country --
OBASOHAN: I think it’s un-American to tax people. Freedom. Don't tax me. Maybe to them you have $5. Don't tax me $10. I may be able to afford $5. Freedom.
FALCON: I think it's going to be clear. I'm for democracy. You're not.
OBASOHAN: Well, our students will get to decide as they watch this and continue to debate this. But one of the fabrics of this society is the voluntary idea of voting. Professor Falcon appears to believe that it ought to be compulsory. I'm of the other point of view. You continue this debate. Thank you.