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[Big Ten Network opening credits]
>> Meredith: Alright, I want to start this off and focus on a topic that is talked about
a lot on college campuses, especially when it comes to admission. And that's diversity.
And I think a lot of people, when they think of diversity, they think racially diverse.
A diverse campus. What really makes a diverse campus? Is it just the racial factor? Because
honestly, in my opinion, it really has a lot to do with geographically diverse. There are
so many in-state students in the school, and I think that's great, but it's a lot of in-state
students, and east coast and west coast students. And I feel like, do all campuses have this
problem? Like, what makes a campus diverse?
>> Mike: I don't know, in my opinion, Wisconsin, they have a lot of alumni in Los Angeles from
Wisconsin, but they go to a lot of private schools, they don't come to LA unified schools.
So I think that's the problem. But I agree with you with diversity that it does include
more than racially. It does include geographically, even academically. Not every student who comes
here should have a 4.0. I think that some of the smartest people on earth have a 2.5.
Different interests, just everything.
>> Andreall: I definitely believe in taking a holistic approach to admissions. Because
all students will not make that grade. But that doesn't mean that those students shouldn't
have the opportunity to go to college. Everybody's circumstances and situations are different.
I think that, here at our university, being a student that did work in admissions, our
diversity needs to expand there. Recruitment efforts - my freshman year I was the only
person from the state of Tennessee to come to this university. They don't recuit in my
area. And I went to one of the top high schools in Memphis. And out of the 102 years of my
school, I am still the only student from my high school that's gone to UW Madison. And
they say - my freshman year, it was like one out of every 690 people have a degree from
this university in the United States. And I'm the only one from my high school. So.
>> Jeff: I don't think there's as much of an emphasis as there should be on political
diversity, ideological diversity, and diversity of interest. Personal interest. Do you play
the violin? Do you play basketball? These are things that make individuals distinct.
And we tend to look at just the numbers - GPA, grade point average - more than anything
else. It's important to look at, but it's not the end all be all.
>> Alex: It's so unrealistic, though, to think that we're going to make a class that's so
diverse that, not only can they play every single instrument, there might be those kind
of people but we're not encountering them.
>> Mike: Ok, so let's move on. As you know, we have the first African-American president,
Barack Obama. So what impact do you think Barack Obama will have in diversity on college
campuses? Personally, I think this is a great thing for, you know, people of color who don't
necessarily see people like them on college campuses, especially with a Harvard degree
who was the editor of the Harvard Law Review. So I think this is great, it's going to encourage
people, people who think the only possibility is to be a professional athlete, or a musician.
It's going to open a window for them. This is a perfect example, a perfect paradigm I
think.
>> Meredith: I agree. I think it's going to take a little while to maybe see that change.
I think this is an influence that's really going to stick with younger children. Grade
school, middle school. But I do, I really do think I'm excited to see that change.
>> Jeff: I don't think his presidency will necessarily make campuses more diverse, but
I think it'll inspire leaders in higher education, especially leaders of color, as well as people
from traditionally under-represented backgrounds. To take up leadership roles in universities
and colleges. Because here you have, you know, the first black president who is the leader
of the free world. There cannot be anything more powerful than that.
>> Mike: And what more unusual route can you take, other than being a mixed race person,
who was from Hawaii, grew up in Indonesia? If he can do it, then the world is open.
>> Alex: I think the word is just hope. He inspires hope in a lot of people, and that's
really crucial in this time.
>> Andreall: And I wonder how many, not only in the younger Americans who are going back
to school, or talking about going to school for the first time, but I wonder how it impacts
individuals who are currently out of school, who are putting it off, saying I'm going to
go back, I'm going to go back. My aunt actually just enrolled back into college to get her
RN degree. And I wonder how many more Americans have been inspired. Especially people of color,
to continue their education, and be like, you know, I can do this. I can do this.
>> Mike: If you think of the higher-ups, who see that, OK Barack Obama is president. We
need to go out and recruit this and this and this. I don't think change is necessarily
going to happen that quick. I don't think that those people, the higher-ups, are necessarily
that focused on this. They're focused on alumni, money, alumni resources, I don't think it's
a top priority.
>> Meredith: I think it's mostly going to be seeded in what, you know, what sorts of
backgrounds are going to be applying to colleges, I don't think it's going to start up here,
it's going to start down here.
>> Andreall: Yeah, because I think a lot of people are of the mindset that, just because
he was elected, that erases everything that our country, is so enlightened now. That race
is, that we're blind to race.
>> Andreall: So being a student here at UW-Madison, I've always found myself asking the question:
do you feel the university is diverse?
>> Alex: No. I think this university is extremely homogenous. I actually take a really big,
I have a really big issue with it. It bothers me, um, it bothers me that I feel like most
of my day I'm surrounded by people that are exactly like me.
>> Mike: Yes. I agree with you on that point. The university is split into two universities,
that's what I feel like. There's two universities here at the University of Wisconsin Madison.
There is the predominant, I'll call it, the predominantly white. And then there's the
other one. The minority university. There are two sections to the university. That's
just the way I feel about it.
>> Andreall: And I attend the minority university.
>> Alex: Thanks for clarifying that.
>> Jeff: I think on some issues though, it does better. So, you know, looking at it in
terms of it's racial composition and ethnicity. I think when it comes to first-generation
students, the university actually does pretty well. Last year's admission stats were the
greatest for first-generation students, in terms of the number admitted. Socioeconomically,
comparatively to other institutions, I think we do OK, we could do better. But I think
we do have to look at diversity holistically.
>> Andreall: But, I'm sorry, I will take great... I just, I completely disagree in the University's
saying, well we admit all of tehse students. But when it comes time for graduation, yeah,
who is getting out of here? Who cares if you brought 100 people in, and you're graduating
4 or 5, you know. That's a problem for me.
>> Alex: Once you get admitted into college, if you're getting scholarships, or whatnot,
or even if you're not, it's your responsibility from that point out to get yourself through.
>> Mike: But everybody's not starting at the same point, though. No, but everybody's not
starting at the same point. My high school education might be completely different than
your high school education. For example, when I came to college, I didn't really know how
to do research in the library. All I knew was research on the computer. So I had a project,
last semester as a matter of fact, I had to go to the historical society, I didn't know
how to do that. I had to figure it all out by myself.
>> Meredith: But look at the whole state. This is a state school. OK. Most of the people
who come to this university are from this state. And, I would argue, should be from
this state. Taxpayer money. Look at the state - look at the state of Wisconsin.
>> Andreall: Well, if we're going to talk about diversity, if Wisconsin is composed
of what, I learned in my sociology class, 7% people of color, if you expect to have
a diverse institution, come on, that's gotta be a joke. That's a joke.
>> Jeff: Well I think that's the tension. We're a public school, but diversity is integral
to the quality of the education. OK, so, moving on, so we've established that UW Madison could
do better in this respect, what are some of the things that it could be doing to increase
diversity on campus?
>> Andreall: I'm really, I'm telling you, being a student who is part of a smaller scholarship
program, not one of People of Posse, those are some of the what I would consider student
of color pipeline programs here for the university flagship. I feel that the university really
needs to focus their recruitment in states where they don't have a lot of alumni. Me
being from Tennessee, once again, I was the only person to come from my entire state.
>> Mike: It's all athletes that come from down south, for the most part.
>> Alex: Going off of that though, they can afford to take away recuiting purposes or
recruiting efforts, excuse me, from places like Minnesota. I'm from Minnesota, I'm from
Minneapolis, and we have recruiters come to my private high school. We already know what
Madison is. Half my grade applied to Madison. We don't need recruiters there.
>> Andreall: It's this private, this privitization of the University. One, I can understand because
of the funding, you're dealing with a different socioeconomic status with those kids, but
I feel like, especially here, Milwaukee. Students that don't come through the People program
- there are a ton of schools in Milwaukee. Just in this state alone, if we're going to
speak about recruitment, since Meredith believes that the majority of students should come
from this state. I really feel that they need to step their efforts up in those areas where
students aren't being recognized.
>> Mike: I agree. It's more of a thing of, I agree with you on that, but how do you do
it. Like, you already have the pipeline programs like you said - Posse and People - specifically
for the Milwaukee, Racine, and even Madison area. So it's all about, how do you get them
to come here. And you need that preparation before you can come to college.
>> Jeff: Exactly. I think on that point, the admissions is only half of the equation. We
need to focus on the campus climate here at the University, right. If students back in
their hometowns hear that attending UW-Madison was a positive experience for their friends,
then they're much more likely to apply. Then if they get an offer of admission, attend.
>> Meredith: I also think this campus kind of lacks with it's giving tours and letting
prospective students who are already interested - they already have this interest, you know,
it should be easy. But whatever. When I took tours as a high school student, they treated
it as, you know, we don't care if you come here or not. We have plenty of applicants.
>> Mike: The biggest problem I remember was in high school...
>> Andreall: So,
being here at the University, as Mike stated earlier, you know it seems like there's kind
of two universities. There's the student of color university, and then there's, you know,
'whooo Wisconsin' university. So do you feel that there's a self-segregation going on between
students here at the university?
>> Meredith: Totally. I think definitely, yeah. There's a huge segregation. And I don't
know, you know, if there's fingers to be pointed or who should be to blame for that, but, I
mean organizations are competitive with other organizations, and some minority groups and
non-minority groups. And I just...there's so much segregation, I think. And I don't
think it's so...this is going to sound ironic...black and white, I don't think it's that stark,
but there are a lot of different groups that, they feel they're exclusive.
>> Jeff: I think it is reserved more for racial and ethnic self-segregation. I think that's
the most visible, obviously, form of it. But it seems to me that it's probably for obvious
reasons. First of all, if you feel as though you are in some sort of minority population
on campus, even if it's not racially, that you're going to be hanging around socially,
with people who are like you.
>> Andreall: But do you think that's a problem? Because when you go into the real world, you're
not going to be able to take your buddies with you.
>> Alex: It is, but how do you change that? You know.
>> Mike: Step outside of your comfort zone. I feel like minority students come here automatically
step out of their comfort zone because they are the minority. So wouldn't the challenge
be brought back by people who aren't a minority to also step outside of their comfort zone?
>> Alex: The thing is, I know personally, I honestly haven't even encountered the opportunity
to really expand. I'm serious. I'm thinking about being in classes, I'm thinking about
being in a sorority, Ok.
>> Andreall: The thing is, because in saying that, you have self-selected your environment.
You have selected the environment that you chose to be placed in, that you chose to enclose
yourself into that environment. To say, this is the group I want to interact with, and
this is where I'm going to stay. IT doesn't mean that, we have 900 clubs. Easily, you
could tell your friends, I'm gonna go check this out real quick. I'll be back.
>> Alex: I'm in tons of different clubs. But that doesn't mean necessarily that they're
diverse clubs, and it's not something that's like, OK, because this club is of a certain
type, it's not diverse. The only thing that I can think about on campus that directly
segregates the two is the sorority system. And that's always really bothered me. They're
under two different governing bodies.
>> Mike: They're under two different governing bodies because they were founded on two different
historical bases. Ok. I'm going to throw out a real simple question. On this campus, are
things getting better?
>> Jeff: I think nominally, they're slowly improving, slowly, and I emphasize that word.
But I think we still have a long ways to go. And it's really tough. How do you foster more
diversity if you feel as though you, if you don't have a lot of it to begin with.
>> Meredith: And how do you force people to go out of their comfort zones? Like you were
saying, I mean, how do you mandate these things?
>> Mike: There's classes.
>> Meredith: Classes, fine. But you were saying, I mean, there are people in your class, but
it doesn't mean you're going to sit down and be buddy-buddy with them.
>> Mike: There's different classes. There is a class here called intercultural dialogues.
Intercultural dialogues. It literally involves every different part of people on campus.
I know that sounds weird, but any type of segment that there is on campus, any type
of group it involves them in the class, and literally you inter-culturally dialogue with
each other. I facilitated it last semester.
>> Meredith: For someone, for me, OK, for my majors and what I want to do, I'm under
a very strict class schedule. I have to take these courses in this sequence to graduate.
And I feel like I don't have that kind of room to incorporate that.
>> Mike: I agree with you. How can people say that I think it's more important to travel
abroad, and learn a second language, when you can't travel to the classroom and actually
have dialoue with me and learn my language. I might talk different than you.
>> Andreall: I really do feel like I would choose to differ when individuals say, step
outside of your comfort zone, I feel like once you get so far out there you just retreat
back, you don't want to just try it again. But by expanding your comfort zone, and going
out and dabbling a little at a time, I mean, if it's just going to the international student
services when they have different desserts. Trying different things will put you in those
environments. Not to say you have to take a class, or you have to join another group.
But say hello. I go, I sit on the bus, and somebody sits next to me and move. I put my
bag right there. I think to myself, oh well.
>> Alex: I think it's something you really have to make a conscious effort for though,
and I think it's something we need to do individually moreso than place the blame on...
>> Jeff: If the university...sorry to interrupt, but if the university is going to be successful
in doing this, it also has to convince people outside the university that it's important
to it's mission, right. That includes state leaders. A lot of people don't attend because
they don't have the financial aid. Tuition is too high. We need to make universities
as accessible as possible, and that means encouraging people in the legislature to think
about diversity in new ways.
>> Mike: That's a major part, I definitely agree with you on that. But it can also be
a lot smaller than that. If somebody of color walks by you, say hello. Make them feel acknowledged.
Make them feel like a part of the university.
>>
Alex: So, talking about diversity, something we obviously have to integrate into the discussion
is affirmative action. We can talk about how effective affirmative action is on campus,
we can talk about affirmative action as a general rule, but I just have to say that
fundamentally, I really kind of have a problem with the basis of it. And, beyond the fact
that affirmative action effectively hurts me, I understand the need for affirmative
action, and I understand the need for the benefits, but I think rather than being based
on race or minority status, it should be based on income. That's a pretty important, and
fundamental difference between how it's been previously defined.
>> Andreall: Wait a minute, so you really think, or you think.
>> Alex: I think it shoul be based on income.
>> Andreall: And it hurts you how? As a woman or as a white woman?
>> Alex: I think affirmative action hurts me because if I, for example, I was applying
to University of Wisconsin- Madison. And my application goes in, and I have all of the
exact same qualifications as somebody else that was a minority, I would get rejected.
>> Mike: No, that's not how it works. Affirmative action works on the basis that there are two
people that are comparatively the same, African-American and white, and they have exactly the same
qualifications, that's the only reason they might pick somebody over you.
>> Alex: That's what I just said.
>> Andreall: It doesn't mean you automatically lose that position.
>> Mike: But people automatically assume that you had a higher GPA than that person. That's
the problem I have.
>> Alex: No, I'm saying if it's exactly comparable, we're the exact same. Than I'm the one that
gets hurt.
>> Mike: But you talk about wanting diversity on this campus, don't you want to have this
diversity on campus? I'm sure that if you applied to this university, you applied to
more than just this one. You probably have a better chance of getting into any other
one than, let's say an African-American who didn't have the funds. Not to assume that
you have a lot of money, but an African-American maybe wouldn't have the funds to apply to
all different kinds of schools.
>> Meredith: That's what she's saying, why don't we just base it solely on income? If
you look at those two things, minus race, they're identical. Identical. But this person,
they or their family makes significantly less, pick them instead.
>> Alex: One of my best friends from high school was extremely affluent, and she's African-American,
and ended up getting these mass tuition scholarships, just because she was African-American.
>> Andreall: Now, see, wait a minute. That's the assumption. That's what bothers me about
students here, specifically at this university. Is because they assume that if you are a person
of color, you only got here based on your skin tone.
>> Alex: Oh I definitely don't think that.
>> Andreall: That's just the way I took it. I feel like, I'm sitting in the same classes
with you, I'm reading the same books that you're reading, I'm taking the same tests
that you're taking, so I mean. And me, I made a 32 on my ACT. I had a 3.8 when I graduated.
I made it here solely based on my acadamia. And I feel that it's an insult for you to
say, for people to assume that, and make that assumption.
>> Mike: OK everybody, it's time for our famous final words. So let's start off with the term
politically correct.
>> Meredith: The phrase I think of is walking on eggshells. Whatever is politically correct
I think seems to turn over and over and over.
>> Mike: To me, it means say what you want to say. Because that's your political right.
>> Jeff: But be PC doing it.
>> Andreall: I think it's a way to tiptoe around trying to make other people comfortable,
when in reality I think you should just go ahead and say it. But you should be cautious,
and be able to own what you say.
>> Mike: You should be respectful, but I don't think you're going to go past anyone unless
you say what's on your heart and what's on your mind. And if you feel like you have,
like I appreciate your honesty. That's why, you know, a lot of people feel the same exact
way but they don't ever say anything about it. And that's a problem I have, when you
sit there and you harbor all of these negative feelings, you should say something about it.
You should express your thought. And then, that's why we have free speech. That's why
we can talk about it.
>> Alex: Well I hope I was politically correct in doing so.
>> Mike: It doesn't matter. Say what you wanna say. OK. What about Prop 8?
>> Alex: I personally am a huge fan of Proposition 8, I'm sorry, that's, the opposite. I'm a
huge proponent. No, I'm saying this completely wrong. I'm an opponent of it. Proposition
8 is the
>> Andreall: Oh it's the ban.
>> Alex: Exactly, yes. It integrates into the constitution in California, Florida, and
Arizona in this past election. And basically said that marriage can only be between a man
and a woman. And it amended the constitution, which is a huge huge deal. And I have a serious
issue with that. I completely think that gays should have the exact same rights as us.
>> Jeff: I absolutely agree, I think it's a societal regression on some level, right.
You're taking a step forward and moving two back. The good thing is that the fight is
out there in the open. States have started to institute marriage equality. Massachusetts,
Connecticut is falling in line...