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Transcription of interview with Michael Moss on October 2, 2013.
Douglas Goldstein, CFPÆ, Financial Planner & Investment Advisor
Michael Moss is a number one New York Times bestselling author. He wrote a book that has
disturbed a lot of people called Salt, Sugar and Fat.
Douglas Goldstein, financial planner & investment advisor, interviewed Moss on Arutz Sheva Radio.
Douglas Goldstein: How did you get involved in this?
Michael Moss: I was actually believe it or not writing about Jihadi militants in the
Middle East when a colleague of mine got kidnapped by the Taliban, we decided we really should
do something safer. I came home and I mentioned just because immediately I was sort of thrown
into another kind of war which is in many ways is as complicated and as significant
as those other wars and that of course was food and this one trillion dollar processed
food industry that by many of you points as badly out of sync with what America in the
world needs in terms of health and nutrition.
Douglas Goldstein: It is an industry and any industry their goal is to become as profitable
as possible. Do you really think that the food industry has an obligation to the health
regarding public health?
Michael Moss: I donít view this industry as this evil empire thatís marching around
the globe intentionally making us all overweight or otherwise ill. You pointed it out correctly,
these are companies doing what companies want to do which is make as much as possible by
selling as much product as possible that the problem lies in their collective zeal to do
that and the problem lies in their own dependency on using heaps of salt, sugar, fat to make
their products utterly luring and salable.
Douglas Goldstein: When you say their dependency, this is just the tool that they use to addict
people the same way the cigarette companies would use nicotine?
Michael Moss: I, as an investor reporter, am trained to follow the money but I have
to tell you the research and reporting for this book was like being inside a detective
story in part because of the language that they use in talking to each other when they
think that no one else is listening. Thereís no word that they hate more than the A word
ìaddictiveî but when theyíre describing their day and night efforts to maximize the
allure of their products, the language that they use is every bit is revealing. They talk
about cravability, smackability and one of my favorite terms more-ishness. These are
bench chemist, marketing [inaudible0:03:42], CEO describing their all out effort not just
to get us to like their products but to want more and more of them.
Douglas Goldstein: And they are good at this obviously right?
Michael Moss: They are totally good. I was researching in writing the book, knowing as
much as I was learning and I was getting cravings especially for potato chips which is my damn
fault. I literally would get up from the desk and walk down stairs and open a bag and go
ìWow, these guys really know their stuff.î
Douglas Goldstein: The food companies are trying to obviously get us to buy more and
more food. People often look to buy their investing companies where they can be pretty
sure that the company will have ongoing earnings. At the rate that this food companies are going,
do you think that itís reasonable that they will continue to be able to addict people
to salt, sugar and fat?
Michael Moss: From an investment standpoint, the good news is that these companies are
as hooked on profit as we are hooked on their products and there are some people who actually
date the problem back to the early 80s with the high-flying text stocks thatís when you
saw Wall Street starting to put performance pressure on blue chip companies including
the food industry and thatís when you started to see CEOs of the food giants start thinking
about their market share, their stock price not on annual basis or quarterly or even monthly
but on a weekly daily basis as one cup. They even put a ticker tape in the lobby of its
headquarters so every employee could see the latest stock prices theyíre coming in to
go to work.
Douglas Goldstein: So youíre saying that the speed that people want the information
is so fast and that these companies are really trying to fit into that model which is good
for a shareholder presumably?
Michael Moss: Good for a shareholder, incredibly frustrating even to some of their own people.
I was really struck by how inside these companies are cabals of insiders who are desperate to
try to do the right thing by consumers. I spent the whole chapter talking about Kraft
actually setting out unilaterally with anti-obesity initiative back in 2003 and doing some remarkable
things to tone down its marketing and its formulation running into the problem that
this is such a fiercely competitive industry. When you walk into the grocery store, it seems
all trunk wall and their soft music, the colors are bright and friendly but behind the scenes,
these companies are duking it out for space on the shelf and that fierce competition basically
rules out any attempts by companies individually to try to tone down again their reliance on
salt, sugar, fat.
Douglas Goldstein: There are certainly people on both sides of the equation saying whether
the government should or shouldnít be involved. In the smoking industry, they put up their
warnings and even in the financial industry, thereís a huge amount of government oversight.
Is the food industry an appropriate place for the government to get involved or should
we just let the marketplace duke it out, share the information like you have with readers
and let everyone make his own decision?
Michael Moss: The most recent case that came up of course is Mayor Bloomberg in New York
City trying to limit the sale of the hugest size sodas in some venues and getting incredible
pushback from the soda industry which accused him of fostering another state. Youíve been
trying to be sympathetic with that but in the absence of some government intervention,
youíre not left with a level playing field, youíre left with the snack food companies
and soda companies spending tens of millions of dollars to get kids to imprint brand-wise
to their products and thatís a very powerful mechanism. So I think itís wrong to think
that in the absence of government, youíve got sort of just a level playing field but
Iíll tell you one thing that really struck me was interviewing the former CEO of Philip
Morris who I write about in the book because they became the largest food manufacturer
in North America by acquiring the old company General Foods and Kraft and I put that question
to myself ìWhat about government regulation?î and he said ìLook Michael, Iím no fan of
government intervention but you have to realize the financial pressure in these companies
to perform so intense that for no other reason, they might want to embrace government regulation
to give them some shielding and protection from Wall Street which I found to be totally
fascinating.
Douglas Goldstein: Was that a suggestion to have government intervention or just perhaps
transparency? If this information is in the packaging, would that be enough or do you
think that they should actually do Bloomberg soda?
Michael Moss: I think the real sense is that the marketing power of the food giants and
the formulations that they have is so overpowering that even having the information in hand when
you walk into the grocery store, for many people is not enough to do the right thing
by your own health. The positive side of that is that Iím hoping two things to put as one
is serve as a wake-up call to the industry but also empowering the people because information
is power. Ultimately, we are the ones who decide what to buy and how much to eat but
again itís really difficult. I spent time with the former president of Coca Cola for
North America and South America and said ìMichael, I know youíre looking for smoking guns but
there really is no smoking gun here. The gun is right on the table.î Thatís the genius
of Coke and what youíre referring to is sort of the industry almost daring us to challenge
the obvious, daring us to read the fine print on their labels and make a right decision
because they know itís so difficult.
Douglas Goldstein: What would you suggest someone to do? The fact is eating healthy
caused a lot more than to fill up during the day on cheap processed food?
Michael Moss: Thatís one of the areas that I think government could pay some attention
to. Walking to the grocery store wanting to do the right thing is going to cost you in
the wallet because it does typically cost more to eat some vegetables than many of the
highly processed foods so thatís one thing thatís going to have to change to help people
who have the right intent but not the financial means.
Douglas Goldstein: Can you just tell us what does your shopping cart look like?
Michael Moss: Iíve got two boys in home, 9 and 14. They are walking bliss point for
sugar. My wife works outside of the home like there is no way weíre going to end out the
[accumbency] of processed foods. Weíre trying to gain to control over them rather than let
them control us. Weíve been working on breakfast cereal like the bunch of North Americans hooked
on, if not Israel. Weíre trying to get the boys to actually like cereal brands with less
sugar in them and we do find that when we engaged them in that decision, they bring
stuff home that theyíd be rather be eating Fruit Loops or Coco Puffs but that plain Cheerios
that they bring home, they really find that they like them better knowing that theyíre
part of the conversation and decision making so thatís what weíre trying to do, just
chip away a little bit.
Douglas Goldstein: Even though Cheerios are high sodium cereal right?
Michael Moss: Some of them indeed are high sodium and thatís one of the issues you canít
solve the obesity epidemic or diabetes by just dialing back on one of the holy trinity
salt, sugar, fat. Typically, what the industry has done over the years is that when they
pulled back on one, theyíll increase the other two because they need to maximize a
lure in the taste or they wonít sell.
Douglas Goldstein: How can people follow your work?
Michael Moss: I have a website called www.michaelmossbooks.com where you can get updates. The book is now
being translated into 14 languages and you can get some of the news on my speaking appearances.
Douglas Goldstein, CFPÆ, is the director of Profile Investment Services and the host
of the Goldstein on Gelt radio show (Monday nights at 7:00 PM on www.israelnationalradio.com.
He is a licensed financial professional both in the U.S. and Israel. Securities offered
through Portfolio Resources Group, Inc., Member FINRA, SIPC, MSRB, NFA, SIFMA. Accounts carried
by National Financial Services LLC. Member NYSE/SIPC, a Fidelity Investments company.
His book Building Wealth in Israel is available in bookstores, on the web, or can be ordered
at: www.profile-financial.com (02) 624-2788 or (03) 524-0942.
Disclaimer: This document is a transcription and/or an educational article. While it is
believed to be current and accurate, divergence from the original is to be expected. The original
podcast can be heard at https://sites.google.com/site/goldsteinradioshows/. All information on this website is purely
information and should not be used as the sole basis for making financial decisions.
The opinions rendered herein are those of the guests, and not necessarily those of Douglas
Goldstein, Profile Investment Services, Ltd., or Israel National News. Readers should consult
with a professional financial advisor before making any financial decisions. Please see
the complete disclaimer at https://sites.google.com/site/goldsteinradioshows/.