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>> ON OCTOBER 22, A NOTED HARVARD UNIVERSITY SCHOLAR
GATES JUNIOR LAUNCHES A SIX PART SERIES ON PBS, "THE
AFRICAN AMERICANS; MANY RIVERS TO CROSS," EXPLORING HOW
PEOPLE FORGED THEIR OWN HISTORY, CULTURE AND SOCIETY
AGAINST TREMENDOUS ODDS. NOW, NEW MEXICO'S HISTORY
OFTEN FAILS TO MENTION OUR VIBRANT AFRICAN AMERICAN
COMMUNITY, SO I SAT DOWN WITH LOCAL EXPERTS TO CAST MORE
LIGHT ON THEIR MANY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE EVOLUTION
OF THIS STATE. JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT
AFRICAN AMERICANS IN NEW MEXICO GEORGE GEDER, PRESIDENT
AND HISTORIAN OF THE NAACP SANTA FE BRANCH.
OUR FRIEND RITA POWDRELL, OWNER OF POWDRELL BARBECUE
HEADS THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN MUSEUM AND
CULTURAL CENTER, AND SHE IS THE CO-CREATOR ALONG WITH OUR
OTHER GUEST, BRENDA DABNEY, OF THE EXHIBIT NEW MEXICO AFRICAN
AMERICAN LEGACY, VISIBLE, VITAL AND VALUABLE.
THIS EXHIBIT HAS BEEN TRAVELING THE STATE FOR
SEVERAL YEARS, EDUCATING PEOPLE ABOUT THE GROUP THAT IS
OFTEN LEFT OUT OF THE CULTURAL DESCRIPTION OF NEW MEXICO AND
THAT WOULD BE US, AFRICAN AMERICANS.
LET ME START WITH YOU, RITA, GOOD TO SEE YOU, BY THE WAY.
IT HAS BEEN A WHILE. TELL ME ABOUT THE EXHIBIT,
WHAT YOU WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH WITH VISIBLE, VITAL AND
VALUABLE. WHAT WAS THE GOAL WHEN YOU
GUYS PUT TOGETHER THE EXHIBIT? >> WELL, THE EXHIBIT IS NOW
PART OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN CULTURAL CENTER INITIATIVE
WHICH STARTED IN 2002. AND, BASICALLY, OUR PURPOSE IS
WE WANT TO RESEARCH HISTORY OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THE STATE
AND ARCHIVE IT AND THEN WE JUST WANT TO EXHIBIT IT
THROUGHOUT THE STATE BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST AREN'T AWARE OF
THE HISTORY OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IN NEW MEXICO AND IT
IS A LONG, ILLUSTRIOUS HISTORY OF MAINTAINING A SOVEREIGN
DEFINITION IN THE FACE OF OPPRESSION AND PROVIDING
SANCTUARY FOR OUR OFFSPRING SO THAT THEY FEEL VALUED, THEY
KNOW EXCELLENCE AND THEY SURVIVE AND MOVE FORWARD WITH
THEIR DREAMS AND GOALS. AND THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED BY
THE NEGATIVE DEFINITION THAT COMES FROM THE OUTSIDE.
>> I LIKE THE USE OF THE TERM OF SOVEREIGN DEFINITION AND,
BRENDA, THAT IS AN INTERESTING WAY TO USE THAT WORD BECAUSE
WHAT RITA IS GETTING TO, OF COURSE YOU KNOW THIS, IF YOU
DON'T DO IT FOR YOURSELF, SOMEONE ELSE IS GOING TO
DEFINE YOU. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
SO, WHEN YOU THINK -- WHEN YOU WERE PUTTING THIS TOGETHER,
WHAT WERE SOME OF THE ASPECTS OF OUR COMING TO NEW MEXICO
THAT YOU WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT? >> WE HAD FIVE ASPECTS OF IT.
FIRST OF ALL, WE TALKED ABOUT THE EARLY ORIGINAL FAMILIES
AND WHY THEY CAME AND WHAT THEY DID WHEN THEY GOT HERE,
SO, THAT LED US INTO ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND THEN WE
LOOKED AT CHURCHES AND WE HAD ONE TIME GROUPED THEM TOGETHER
BUT WE FOUND THAT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA SO WE SEPARATED
CHURCHES FROM SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS.
SO, THEY CAME HERE, THEY FOUND SOMETHING TO LIVE OFF OF AND
THEY HAD THEIR SANCTUARY OF CHURCH AND THEN THEY HAD THEIR
SOCIAL AND SOME POLITICAL ORGANIZATIONS AS WELL.
AND, THEN WE LOOKED AT PATTERNS OF INTEGRATION AND
SEGREGATION IN NEW MEXICO. >> INTERESTING, FIVE BIG
SUBJECTS, ANY ONE OF THEM COULD HAVE BEEN ITS OWN
EXHIBIT. IT IS AMAZING.
GEORGE, GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANKS FOR COMING IN FROM
SANTA FE. IT WAS INTERESTING WHAT
SURPRISED MOST FOLKS HERE WHO ARE NOT AFRICAN AMERICANS IS
THAT THERE WERE AFRICAN AMERICANS THAT HAD A FOOTHOLD
IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO FOR QUITE A PERIOD OF TIME.
WE TEND TO THINK OF US BEING SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO AS POINT
OF ENTRY AND WHERE WE MADE OUR STAND, SO TO SPEAK, BUT TALK
ABOUT THAT, ABOUT NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.
>> YES, WELL, MY FAMILY, MY WIFE AND I CAME TO SANTA FE
ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS, WHERE
ARE ALL THE BLACK FOLK? AND, SO, WE JOINED THE SANTA
FE BRANCH OF THE NAACP WHICH WOULD BE OUR POINT OF ENTRY
INTO THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND WHAT I NOTICED
WAS THAT THERE IS A RICH HISTORY THERE IN SANTA FE.
AND IT IS INCLUDED IN THE NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS OF THE
MEMBERSHIP AND SO MY FIRST THING WITH THE BRANCH WAS, LET
ME BE A HISTORIAN, LET ME GATHER ALL THE NEWSPAPER
CLIPPINGS, OBITUARIES, SO THAT I CAN LEARN ABOUT THE AFRICAN
AMERICAN COMMUNITY AS IT EXISTS IN SANTA FE AND ALSO TO
BRING IT TO LIGHT AND BRING IT TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE TO
SAY THAT, THERE IS AN AFRICAN INSOLENT IN SANTA FE AND THAT
IS HOW I GOT STARTED WITH THAT.
>> THAT IS INTERESTING. BRENDA, IT IS INTERESTING,
YOUR FAMILY WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE FAMILIES, THE DABNEYS,
AS YOU MENTIONED, SOME OF THOSE ORIGINAL FAMILIES.
>> IT WASN'T DABNEYS. IT WAS MY GREAT GRANDFATHER
CAME HERE AS A BUFFALO SOLDIER AND HIS NAME WAS JOHN COLLINS.
>> SORRY. >> THAT IS OKAY AND HE CAME
HERE AS, YOU KNOW IN THE MILITARY AND ONE OF THE JOBS
OF THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS WAS TO PROTECT THE MEN WHO WERE
LAYING THE TRACK FROM TOPEKA, KANSAS GOING TO CALIFORNIA
AND, YOU KNOW, FROM WHOEVER IT WAS THAT WAS GOING TO STOP OR
TO IMPEDE THEM. THAT WAS ONE OF THEIR JOBS.
ANOTHER JOB HE HAD WAS AS A SCOUT BECAUSE HE SPOKE SEVERAL
INDIAN DIALECTS AND WAS ALSO SENT TO ALBUQUERQUE TO WORK AT
THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO MOVE THE COURSE OF THE RIVER.
THE RIVER'S NATURAL BED RUNS BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND
STREET, AND YEARS AGO, WHENEVER WE HAD, YOU KNOW, A
LARGE RAINFALL, THE WATER WOULD JUST POUR DOWN THOSE TWO
STREETS, WE HAVE SINCE CORRECTED THAT, BUT THEY MOVED
IT TO WHERE ITS PRESENT BED IS.
AND WHILE HE WAS HERE, HE KIND OF LIKED ALBUQUERQUE, WAS
LIVING IN SILVER CITY. AND, SO, WHEN HE WAS
DISCHARGED FROM THE MILITARY, HE SENT FOR HIS WIFE MELISSA
WHO WAS IN NEW YORK AND BROUGHT HER OUT HERE AND SHE,
THE RAILROAD STOPPED AT TOPEKA AND SHE HAD TO RIDE A
STAGECOACH TO MEET HIM. BUT, ANYWAY, HE STARTED
HOMESTEADING HERE AND THIS IS IN THE LATE 1800'S.
>> HOMESTEADING; WAS THAT A BIG PART OF OUR TOE HOLD HERE?
WAS HOMESTEADING PART OF THAT PROCESS?
>> I THINK SO, SOME OF THE FAMILIES THAT WE TALKED TO,
YES, AND THEY HAD QUITE A BIT OF TRACTS OF LAND AND THEY
WORKED IT, YOU KNOW. WE WERE TALKING TO OTHER
FAMILIES THAT CAME OUT, YES, THEY DID HAVE -- THEY WERE
HOMESTEADING. >> INTERESTING, RITA, I CAN
REMEMBER YEARS AGO SITTING DOWN WITH YOUR HUSBAND JOE
TALKING ABOUT ENTREPRENEURSHIP HERE IN AFRICAN AMERICANS AND
THERE WAS A GREAT PICTURE HE SHOWED ME ABOUT THIRD AND GOLD
DOWNTOWN. I BELIEVE IT WAS AN AFRICAN
AMERICAN MESSENGER SERVICE THAT WAS THE BIGGEST IN
ALBUQUERQUE DURING THE -- IT WAS AMAZING.
>> YEAH. TALK ABOUT THAT, OUR
ENTREPRENEURSHIP OVER TIME. >> I THINK ONE OF THE
FASCINATING THINGS ABOUT THE EXHIBIT BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN
TRAVELING THE STATE, SANTA FE, LAS VEGAS, NEW MEXICO, LAS
CRUCES AND THEN, OF COURSE, ALBUQUERQUE, AND THE BIGGEST
THING YOU FIND IS THAT COMING INTO THIS NEW LAND THAT HAD
JOB CEILINGS AND THINGS THAT PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO GET AWAY
FROM, WHAT HAPPENED WITHIN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY WAS
OUR OWN SOVEREIGN DEFINITION AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP SO A LOT
OF BUSINESSES STARTED WITHIN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY
FROM THE GROCERY STORE IN LAS CRUCES AND THEN YOU COME HERE
AND YOU HAVE BOARDING HOUSES. YOU HAD HOTELS BECAUSE AFRICAN
AMERICANS COULD NOT LODGE WHERE EVERYBODY LODGED, SO IT
STARTED A BOARDING HOUSE, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRY, AND YOUR HOTEL
INDUSTRY AND, OF COURSE, WE NEEDED BARBERS AND BEAUTICIANS
AND WE SET UP, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE CHURCHES BECAME.
WE HAD CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, AND LIKE YOU SAID,
DELIVERY SERVICE WHICH HAD A BUILDING, WHICH HOUSED OTHER
THINGS WITHIN IT. YOU HAD ONE OF THE FIRST
DOCTORS WHO CAME TO ALBUQUERQUE RESIDED IN THE
BUILDING THAT WAS OWNED BY BRYANT DELIVERY SERVICE AND
YOU HAD THE AFRICAN AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS WHICH WERE
ENTREPRENEURIAL BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO KNOW WHAT WAS
HAPPENING AND WE NEEDED TO KNOW BETWEEN COMMUNITIES AND
WHAT TO FIGHT. SO, WHEN SEGREGATION -- WHEN
THE STATE DECIDED TO SEGREGATE, ONE OF THE WAYS WE
FOUND OUT WAS THROUGH THE AFRICAN AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS
AND ENTREPRENEURIAL THINGS IN AREAS THAT OTHER PEOPLE WERE
COMING TO NEW MEXICO FOR LIKE THE TUBERCULOSIS, SO, ONE OF
THE EARLY DENTISTS HAD A TUBERCULOSIS CLINIC, AND THE
WOMEN HAD CATERING AND THEY HAD A CATERING SERVICE AND WE
USED ALL OF THESE THINGS TO DEFINE OURSELVES AND OUR
COMMUNITY AND TO GIVE OUR CHILDREN HOPE BECAUSE A LOT OF
THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED ENTREPRENEURIAL ENDEAVORS DID
SO BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING BLOCKED IN THE AREA THEY WERE
PASSIONATE ABOUT. SO A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME HERE,
COLLEGE EDUCATED TO BE SCHOOL TEACHERS AND THEY COULD NOT BE
SCHOOL TEACHERS, SO THEY BECAME PORTERS AND THEY BECAME
POSTAL CARRIERS AND ON THE TRAINS AND THEY BECAME
JANITORS, BUT THE OTHER THING THEY DID WAS THEY STARTED
BUSINESSES THAT GAVE THEM VALUE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY.
SO WHEN I COME INTO THIS COMMUNITY I HAVE ANOTHER
DEFINITION THAT GIVES ME VALUE AND MAKES ME VITAL AND GIVES
MY CHILDREN THE HOPE THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO BE CYNICAL, YOU
NEED TO KEEP GOING, YOU NEED TO -- SO, YOU NEED TO NOT LET
THESE FEELINGS STOP YOU AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CHILDREN
OF THESE EARLY SETTLERS, THEY ACCOMPLISHED AMAZING, AMAZING
THINGS, EDUCATIONALLY. YEAH.
>> IT IS INTERESTING, I AM THINKING TO THAT PICTURE AND
OTHERS AND THE BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT ARE IN THE
PICTURE IS JUST LIKE BLAM, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, LIKE, THIS
IS WHO I AM, I RUN THIS BUSINESS, I AM IMPORTANT TO
THIS COMMUNITY. THE PRIDE OF IT WAS JUST SO
IMPACTFUL. BUT, CHALLENGES, GEORGE, ALONG
THE WAY. I HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF
FOLKS HERE WHO JUST DON'T BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY SUCH
THING AS SEGREGATION IN NEW MEXICO.
IT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE, JUST NEVER HAPPENED.
YOU KNOW. IT IS INTERESTING, ISN'T IT?
>> RIGHT, AND THAT IS NOT TRUE BUT LET ME POINT OUT SOMETHING
ABOUT THE ENTREPRENEURSHIP ASPECT.
AT THE BRANCH THIS MONTH, WE HAD AN AUTHOR WHO WROTE A BOOK
ABOUT A GENTLEMAN NAMED BUD FOWLER.
BUD FOWLER WAS A BLACK PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYER
AND HE ACTUALLY INTEGRATED BASEBALL MAYBE 60 YEARS BEFORE
JACKIE ROBINSON. WHAT IS KEY TO BUD FOWLER IN
NEW MEXICO IS THAT BUD FOWLER TRAVELED FROM NEW YORK AND HE
WENT TO THE MIDWEST AND HE ENDED UP IN SANTA FE IN THE
LATE 1800'S AND AT THAT TIME SANTA FE HAD A PROFESSIONAL
BASEBALL TEAM AND THEY WON, IF YOU WILL, THE WORLD SERIES AT
THAT TIME. AND, IT IS FASCINATING THAT
THESE CHARACTERS DO COME INTO THE AREA INTO NEW MEXICO, INTO
SANTA FE AND ALBUQUERQUE, AND ESTABLISH A LEGACY THAT OUR
STUDENTS TODAY NEED TO LEARN ABOUT.
SO, THIS MAN, JEFF LANG, WROTE THIS WONDERFUL BOOK AND HE IS
TRYING TO GET THIS CHARACTER BUD FOWLER INTO THE BASEBALL
HALL OF FAME. YEAH.
IRONICALLY, BUD FOWLER WAS OUT OF NEW YORK STATE AND HE LIVED
BLOCKS AWAY FROM COOPERSTOWN WHERE THE HALL OF FAME IS, BUT
HIS STORY REACHES SANTA FE AND REACHES NEW MEXICO.
AND AS I AM LEARNING, THERE ARE OTHER CHARACTERS THAT HAVE
BEEN HERE EVEN AS RECENT AS ROBERT LAWRENCE CELEBRATED THE
TUSKEGEE AIRMEN, HE ESTABLISHED ROOTS IN HIS LATER
YEARS IN SANTA FE. AND HE BECAME A LIVING LEGEND.
THERE IS MANY OTHER CHARACTERS THAT ARE IN OUR HISTORY.
IN SANTA FE WE HAVE A CEMETERY, THE FAIRVIEW
CEMETERY, AND INTERRED THERE ARE SOME IMPORTANT AFRICAN
AMERICAN FAMILIES; SLAUGHTER AND ROBERTS ARE IN THERE.
AND, THEY HAVE RICH STORIES OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP, ESTABLISHING
BUSINESSES AND AFRICAN AMERICAN IDENTITY IN SANTA FE
AND ALBUQUERQUE AND NEW MEXICO AT LARGE.
SO, WE ARE HERE. WE HAVE EXPERIENCED THE
SEGREGATION AND RACISM LIKE ANY OTHER PLACE IN THE COUNTRY
MORE SO IN THE SOUTHERN HALF OF THE STATE THAN THE NORTHERN
HALF OF THE STATE. AND MAINLY THE DIFFERENCE IS
THE NUMBERS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO TRAVELED THROUGH
THE STATE. AS MIGRATION HAPPENED FROM THE
SOUTH, MISSISSIPPI, ALABAMA THROUGH TEXAS THAT MIGRATORY
PATTERN CAME MOSTLY THROUGH THE SOUTHERN HALF OF THE
STATE. PEOPLE DIDN'T GO TO THE
NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE, SO, YES, WE ARE HERE, WE HAVE
BEEN HERE. THAT HISTORY NEEDS TO BE
EXPOSED AND -- >> IT IS INTERESTING --
>> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT SHOWS YOU THE STRENGTH OF THE
PEOPLE THAT CAME BECAUSE WE WERE WILLING TO GO JUMP OVER
THE BARRIERS AND FORGE AHEAD BECAUSE WE HAD THIS STRENGTH.
WE KNEW THAT WE ARE OUT HERE AND WE ARE GOING TO MAKE THIS
OUR HOME AND YOU KNOW I THINK THAT STRENGTH IS SOMETHING
THAT WE NEED TO PASS ON TO OUR CHILDREN TOO BECAUSE KNOWING
THAT WE HAVE BEEN IN PLACES THAT WE HAVE JUST MADE
SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING AND WE CAN SEE WHERE WE CAN GO AND
MAKE -- THAT IS WHY SOME OF THOSE SERVICE JOBS BECAME
AVAILABLE BECAUSE THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A NEED
HERE. I THINK I CAN FILL THIS NEED.
AND I THINK THAT IS A STRENGTH THAT WE PASS ON TO OUR
CHILDREN. >> IT IS SUCH A RICH TOPIC.
THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH WE CAN HANDLE IN 15 MINUTES.
I WOULD LOVE TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU ALL AGAIN AND TALK ABOUT
THIS. THE SPORTS STUFF IS
FASCINATING, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, A PROJECT YOUR HUSBAND WAS
WORKING ON A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, BUT THE AMOUNT OF
ATHLETES THAT HAVE BEEN OLYMPIC MEDAL WINNERS FROM THE
STATE THAT NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT, IT IS AMAZING.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN, BRENDA, GEORGE AND RITA,
THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT. DON'T FORGET THE SIX PART
SERIES, "AFRICAN AMERICANS; MANY RIVERS TO CROSS," STARTS
OCTOBER 22 AT 7:00 P.M. RIGHT HERE ON NEW MEXICO PBS.