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I'm joined by doctor for he munis he's the president the Baltimore chapter
above the comedy a Muslim community USA he's also a senior fellow
at the hop birder Center for Ethics at the University
a baltimore great to have him back on the program
doctor Eunice we are here to talk about drones in drone policy and there's been
so much news in the last few days we have of course testimony
in american congress from survivors up drone attacks
we have increased information about the
I sanctioning within Pakistan love
drone policy at least to some extent and of course we're constantly learning more
about cases where
a farmer farming at night for example mistaken for someone who is
committing some kind of crime is is incorrectly
the victim love a drone strike where do you see the the most
a a pragmatic argument when it comes to drones
right now what's the area where we could really try to hammer out some of the
issues if you will
it's extremely ironic day first of all thank you very much for having me on
drone strikes r-lake
you have young girl with a mosquito sitting on her cheek
and we try to slap that mosquito are we try to fire at that girl and then expect
that no collateral damage will happen we know
for the past 10 years the drone strikes are ineffective because we have not
weaken al Qaeda we were fighting al-qaeda in around Arabian Sea ten years
ago
and today we're fighting al-qaeda around Mediterranean Sea 2000 miles
away from that spot and in Mali that's another 2,000 miles away so we know that
al Qaeda is not weaken
what is important is for us to come together and
as a people really see is this word
is this the best that america has to produce because for every
mara important target that we hit with a drone
there are about 50 civilians dead this is according to David McMillan
a few years ago he wrote a piece in New York Times so right now what we know
Pershore
is that drones don't work they do not keep us safe
what is the alternative that so much longer conversation well I think that
there's so to comment on what you said we
we know we now have the number one remember that they're different groups
and al Qaeda so to say broadly speaking that al Qaeda has or hasn't been
weakened because there are now two thousand miles from where they were
we have to be we we have to kinda look at et segment about Qaeda so I would
issue that note of caution but going further to this idea of the collateral
damage
we have to consider not only the collateral damage but we also have to
think about
the number of new enemies that each drone strike
can create and I've been doing some reading about that and it actually turns
out that even putting aside the collateral damage momentarily let's
pretend for a second
that we could target and only kill the
actual people we want to kill we may be creating more than one enemy
with each enemy that is killed there is no question about that Dave just look at
beso shares out in 2010 the gentleman who tried to
explode you know his SUV in Times Square his testimony is pretty clear
he resented the drone strikes talk us are never other is the bombings in
Boston
I am in no shape or form trying to defend these terrorists a.m. India
Muslim community we are the victims of terrorism at the hands of Taliban
but at the same time we must stand up for justice where is the justice when
one
out of or victims of drone strikes is dubbed as
unknown militant essentially that say that we don't have a clue
one out of four times twenty five percent of the time as we are killing
so you you're right that we are only going to create more enemies for our
children
there are some pragmatic problems though and I'll a list to have them number one
we know that the conversation about well
instead of doing drone strikes we should do nothing
is a completely unrealistic conversation because that wouldn't be the case if if
the US were not doing drone strikes we would be doing
we would have much much bigger involvement in many of these areas and
then the other point where pragmatism need to take some kinda
above presence is that we have now information
about paribus Rashid declaring that former President Musharraf
is going to be put on trial for sanctioning drone attacks in there has
been
more information coming out about the sanctioning up these drone attacks if
even the country where the droning is taking place
is either implicitly or explicitly okay with it
how are how are americans going to be able to change the policy
very good point excellent point and I do not
oppose drone strikes because the President of Pakistan a la Sharif
opposes them
because this is what Americans need to know about no I Sharif
this is a man was in exile in Saudi Arabia who now comes back
with a very clear vision of negotiating the Taliban
with negotiating a Sharia law for Pakistan the first thing he said after
coming into power
that he wanted to negotiate with Taliban one other person decisions he made
was to sideline the human rights ministry which is now
not a stand-alone ministry in Pakistan it is working under the law and justice
department
this is the track record demand was literally in bed with Taliban and let's
go to John Louis
a terrorist organizations I have absolutely no sympathy
I do not condemn drone strikes because the Pakistani Brett
prime minister does so because these guys in bed with Taliban
what we have to see though is why did Taliban
attack Malala yousufzai a fourteen fifteen-year-old girl
because here is here is an insight for us as Americans I know this is not a
quick fix I know the country's not going to call it practical today
but I live on are not afraid a bombs there are free to books
that is what they're afraid up we should spend that money in establishing schools
in Pakistan in Waziristan
and save the next generation Dave nicholas kristoff wrote a nice piece
where he said that the cost
a one soldier in alanis done for one year
in that cost we could establish twenty schools time flies by I know this is not
a short term strategy
but unless somebody thinks long-term the kids who are being
you know who are being harassed today whose parents are being killed in those
drone attacks
they are going to be some love them they could be the terrorists up tomorrow
we have to also consider the other side of this which is you and i have been
focusing mostly on what hasn't worked and what doesn't work about these
policies
but there will be those who will say it and even if we disagree broadly there
are cases
where we do have the correct information that they're is an individual that can
be targeted by one of these strikes
presumably let's assume we have the support I love the host country the the
country where the individual is living
and let's say we can pull off that drone straight without collateral damage let's
say technology continues to improve
is there not some responsibility if you do have action actionable intelligence
and you can eliminate those a collateral damages
to take that person out in the interest of preventing more deaths
at their hands here is where the logic breaks today
when you look at gallup earlier this year they came out with a survey
sixty-five percent of Americans would say yes to that question that you just
posed
however if you change the scenario and you say that terrorist is a US citizen
and that terrorist is hiding somewhere in america
that number drops from 65 percent to 13 percent
I think that's at the heart of the issue here so there's a double there's a
there's a double standard right did a double standard you know if that
terrorist
who's now in america he's more likely to kill more Americans
yet thirteen-percent eighty-seven percent of Americans would say no to
that
that is really my point I think we as Americans we are part liberty and
justice
in our schools in our Pledge of Allegiance at extremely difficult
to take it out if I DNA when we see that injustice on our own soil
we speak up why not speak out when that injustices happening in another country
very quickly this year we've seen a drop-off in the number of drone attacks
at least from the information that is public and we can glean
do you think that this has been in part the result above the conversations that
have have started in the US and there's been significant backlash the more than
americans have learned about these attacks
or is that simply a coincidence and there's other reasons we don't know for
the reduction
there's no way to know for sure but if I had to guess I would say yes there is a
response to the increasing awareness of this issue
because now more and more Americans will become aware of it so I think there is a
direct correlation but that's just my gut feeling
all right we've been speaking with doctor for him Eunice hot birder Centre
for ethics and the univer-
at the University of Baltimore also president of the Baltimore chapter
the comedy a Muslim community USA pleasure as always having
thank you very much date take care