Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
TOM MERRITT: Coming up, the man who created Drizzt
Do'Urden and 22 "New York Times" bestsellers.
Let's just stop asking him about the Wookie, OK?
He's got other stuff going on.
It's out author's guide to RA Salvatore.
VERONICA BELMONT: Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to the "Sword and Laser." I'm Veronica Belmont.
And I'm Tom Merritt.
And this is one of our author guide episodes where we invite
one of our favorite authors up to the
space castle and chitchat.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
We're going to chit chat today and
introduce you to RA Salvatore.
VERONICA BELMONT: Now the author of 22 "New York Times"
best sellers, RA Salvatore supported himself during the
early days of his writing career by working part time
and a nightclub bouncer.
He credits the job with not only giving them the
experience to write intense battle scenes, but the time to
develop his first manuscript, titled "Echoes of the Fourth
Magic."
TOM MERRITT: He submitted the manuscript to several
publishers, including TSR, who purchased the manuscript in
1987 and asked Salvatore to write the second book in the
Forgotten Realms line.
In 1988, TSR published outsource first Forgotten
Realms novel, "The Crystal Shard," and introduced the
fantasy genre to Salvatore's most iconic character, the
Drow Ranger Drizzt Do'Urden.
VERONICA BELMONT: Since his introduction, Drizzt, has
starred in Salvatore's novels for 22 years, appearing in
more than 18 novels spanning 17 series.
Three series like the Dark Elf trilogy, the Sell Swords, the
War of the Spider Queen, and, currently, the Sundering,
Drizzt has fought to protect his adopted homeland after
rejecting the dark ways of its people, the Drow.
TOM MERRITT: Beyond the other forgotten realms Salvatore has
also written for the "Star Wars" expanded universe,
spanning "Vector Prime," the first of the New Jedi Order
series, in 2000.
Since 21 years after the events of the "Return of the
Jedi," "Vector Prime" chronicles the emergence of
the Yuuzhan Vong, a powerful alien race poised to invade
the "Star Wars" galaxy.
VERONICA BELMONT: But "Vector Prime" is perhaps best known
for being the novel where everyone's favorite Wookie,
Chewbacca, is heroically, but permanently, killed off.
While the controversial move was ordered by execs at
Lucasfilms, Salvatore has said he regrets
having been that guy.
Since he was, after all, the author of the book.
TOM MERRITT: Salvatore's bibliography also features
five original series, beginning with the Chronicles
of Ynis Aielle, beginning in 1990 with the publication of
Salvatore's first manuscript, "The Echoes of the Fourth
Magic." Set in a post-apocalyptic but
fantastical future, the series follow the crew of a research
submarine who are transported into the future and found to
be the ancient ones destined to save the world.
VERONICA BELMONT: Salvatore followed with the
Spearwielder's Tales--
the story of a young man transported to the fairy realm
and tasked with reforging a legendary spear, and the
Crimson Shadow series, starring a Robin Hood-like
figure who sets out to defeat the evil wizard king
Greensparrow.
His next two series, the Demon Wars saga and the saga of the
First King, were both set in the world of Corona, a
medieval realm that bears a striking geographic
resemblance to Eastern Canada.
TOM MERRITT: The Demon Wars saga spans seven novels that
tell the story of a powerful demon bent on
conquering the world--
and the humans and elves fighting to defeat him.
Set centuries before the Demon Wars saga, Saga of the First
King chronicles the earliest days of Corona, and the coming
of age of its first real hero, the Highwayman.
VERONICA BELMONT: Salvatore has also made a name for
himself writing video games, graphic novel adaptations,
film novelizations, and a host of short stories.
In all, he has published upwards of 53 written works
but has said that he can't quite remember the exact
number and that he doesn't plan to stop
writing anytime soon.
TOM MERRITT: As Lem completes the networking procedures to
connect us with RA Salvatore, please enjoy this look at
today in alternate history.
VERONICA BELMONT: We're very happy to have RA Salvatore
with us today.
Thank you so much for joining us.
RA SALVATORE: Good to be back.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, good to talk to you again.
RA SALVATORE: Well, kind of back.
[LAUGHTER]
TOM MERRITT: Welcome to our new space castle the.
Last thing we talked to you, we were in DragonCon.
RA SALVATORE: Yeah, I like the dragon here, too.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah,
VERONICA BELMONT: He's a good boy.
TOM MERRITT: Keeping the dragon theme.
So "The Last Threshold," Neverwinter Saga book four,
just came out March 5.
Without getting too spoiler-y or anything, what can you tell
folks about it who haven't picked it up yet.
RA SALVATORE: Well, the whole Neverwinter series was about
what would happen to the Dark Elf when he started having--
my main hero that's been running since 1988 now, 25
years old--
what would happen to him when he finally found himself
surrounded by some people who weren't really all that nice.
Are they going to drag him down?
Is he going to lift them up?
And then this book answers that question, finally.
He gets that resolution, as to where he's going from here.
And of course, this book is really just the set up.
The whole saga, everything we've been doing for the last
year, is a set up for a big event coming in the forgotten
realms called the sundering, that's starts this summer with
another book from a called "The Companions." And this is
really change to fifth edition Dungeons and Dragons, and kind
of revitalizing the Forgotten Realms after the last change
to Dungeons and Dragons.
VERONICA BELMONT: So you've been keeping busy.
RA SALVATORE: Oh, we've been really busy.
We've been having author summits up in Washington.
They bring in all the authors that are doing the books to
try to bring the world to the new edition of the game.
And this time, they did it right.
Last time, they kind of gave us--
here's what's changing in the world.
You're going to love it.
And we didn't.
And we had to say.
This time, they brought us in and said, this is what we're
doing to the game, how would that affect the world?
And we're the ones that got to determine that.
So I'm really excited about it.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's nice.
Sounds like there's a little more synergy happening.
RA SALVATORE: I don't like that word.
That's a West coast word.
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: Hey, I'm from the East Coast too.
TOM MERRITT: Put some shoes on, hippie.
VERONICA BELMONT: I've been living out here too long.
That's part of my problem.
RA SALVATORE: Apparently, apparently.
But yeah, actually, it's been great because we've been
standing on each other's shoulders and
jumping higher, basically.
TOM MERRITT: That's great.
RA SALVATORE: Yeah, I've been loving it.
TOM MERRITT: So "The Sundering" comes out August 6.
It's a good idea to read "The Last Threshold"?
RA SALVATORE: Oh, you have to.
You'll have no idea what's going on.
I do that purpose.
It's called job security.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, smart move.
VERONICA BELMONT: Job security.
Love it.
So, moving into some questions from our audience.
David wants to know how Drizzt gained the spotlight.
Did you always intent for him to become
the star of the show.
RA SALVATORE: Oh, heck no.
He wasn't even in the outline I sent to TSR back in 1987
when I was auditioning to do the second Realms book.
I thought the Realms were the Moonshae Isles because the
only printed material they sent me was Doug Niles
"Darkwalker on Moonshae." And on these tiny islands, Doug's
characters would have to have play the role.
So the sample chapter I sent them had Doug's character
introducing the hero of my book, Wulgar.
And then, when I found out, no, they didn't want me on the
Isles, and they showed me what the realms were, this massive
world, we reset the book.
And I got a phone call at work.
I was working as a financial analyst.
And they said, you can't use Doug's characters.
I said, good, I don't want to.
And they said, but I'm going to a meeting to sell your book
to the sales force, and I need a sidekick for Wulgar.
And so I told Mary Kirchoff I'd call her back next week,
I'd come up with something.
She says, no, no, no, I don't have time.
I've got to go to a meeting and I need a sidekick.
So I looked at the clock, and saw it was almost lunch time,
and said all right, I won't take lunch.
I'll work on this.
I'll call you right after lunch with a hero.
She says, you don't understand.
I'm late for meeting.
VERONICA BELMONT: Tell me now.
And I need a new sidekick for Wulfgar.
And off the top of my head I said Drizzt Do'Urden.
Well, actually I said black elf.
They were called black elves.
And a long pause, and she says, a Drow?
And I said, yeah, a Drow.
A Drow ranger, that'll be cool.
No one's ever done that before.
And she said, well, there's probably a reason.
And I said, no, that'll be cool.
It'll be a Drow ranger.
And so she thought about it, and she's
late for her meeting.
And she said, well, since it's just a sidekick, I'll let you
get away with it.
What's his name?
And off the top of my head I said, Drizzt Do'Urden of
[INAUDIBLE]
the ninth house of Menzoberranzan.
And she said, what?
And I said, I have no idea.
And she said, can you spell it?
And I said, no.
She asked me where the Menzoberranzan was, and I said
must be a city, I don't know.
[LAUGHTER]
And that's how it happened.
I never played him in a game.
I never thought of the character before.
And then I started writing the book.
And on page two, I had Drizzt running across the tundra--
this was page two of "The Crystal Shard," when I was
writing it.
And he got jumped by some yetis.
But in that scene, when he was running across the tundra, I
knew it was his book.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's a great story.
I love that story.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, I love that story.
RA SALVATORE: And that was 1987.
That was July of '87.
TOM MERRITT: Now, you so you've been writing Drizzt for
a long time.
And Nicole had the question of whether it's kind of like the
band that has to keep playing their hit over
and over for 20 years.
Is it difficult to imagine new plotlines for
him after 20 books?
RA SALVATORE: No, because my books are character-driven,
not plot driven.
The way I write all my books, whether it's the Dark Elf
books, or the Demon Wars books, or the Crimson Shadow
books, or any of them is, I introduce these characters,
and I know enough about them that I might be
interested in them.
And then I sit back and I let them tell me the story.
And when I'm writing a book, it's almost the way other
people read a book.
I don't really know what's happening, or what's going to
happen next, but it all seems to keep falling together as
they tell me their story.
I've said many times, I'm going to write this character
until I'm not having any fun, or nobody wants
to read about him.
VERONICA BELMONT: Gotcha.
RA SALVATORE: And I'm still having fun.
There was one time, there was one point, where I was
starting to feel a little bit trapped by the character.
And it was almost like this creative rebellion inside of
me, saying, you can do so much more, and
all this other garbage.
And then I saw a "Behind the Music," you know the wonderful
VH1 "Behind the Music"?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
RA SALVATORE: With John Fogerty.
And he was talking about how he would never play CCR songs
when he was on his own.
And he was mad.
And then he realized, it wasn't about him.
It was about the people he was playing for.
And you can't believe the letters and emails I get from
people who found a friend in this character.
And so there's a little bit of both.
I feel a responsibility to the people who have found a friend
with this character.
But I also love writing about him.
So it's a good--
I don't want to use the word synergy, I'm
not going to do that.
VERONICA BELMONT: But it's in your brain now.
RA SALVATORE: Yeah, and thanks for that, by the way.
No, but it works out because I really love writing the
character and the characters around him.
So far, so good.
Who knows.
VERONICA BELMONT: That analogy with music actually really
seems to hold true.
It seems to be very similar kind of thing, though.
You want to do what makes the fans happiest as well.
TOM MERRITT: Play the hit.
RA SALVATORE: It's not just making them happy.
It's reaching them.
When you get a letter from a soldier who says, thank you
for letting me forget what I had to do today and not think
about what I had to do tomorrow; when you get a
letter from someone who's battling cancer, and they use
your characters; when I get letters, and I get them all
the time from kids in high school, who find friends in
the companions of the hall--
these are their friends.
You know, I get picked on.
But I have these friends.
Or someone else is going through a tough time in their
life, and they tell you how they're relating to that
character--
that is an incredible privilege as an author.
How blessed am I that my work gets to reach some people in
that little way?
VERONICA BELMONT: And it's a nice safety net that we know
that we can stay liking your characters because unlike
George R. Martin, there's a good chance you
won't kill all of them.
RA SALVATORE: Did you read "The Last Threshold"?
VERONICA BELMONT: No.
RA SALVATORE: OK
VERONICA BELMONT: Did you kill all of them?
Bob!
I can't trust anybody.
So we have a couple of Forgotten Realms questions.
One from James, "How did it affect the stories you had
planned when Wizards decided to reboot the Forgotten
Realms?" And Darren asks, "How did they tell you?"
RA SALVATORE: Which time?
TOM MERRITT: The most recent time, I think, is what he's
asking here.
Fourth edition, it was a shock.
And they said, we're advancing the world 100 years.
And half of my main characters are human.
And I'm sitting there thinking, well, 140-year-old
humans don't fight very well.
How am I going to do this?
And that was a fight.
I actually wrote a long letter to Wizards, to a couple of the
editors up there, the senior editors, and said, please
don't do this.
There are other ways to accomplish what you want.
But it's their world.
And if they want to do that to their sandbox, my choice is, I
can you keep working and playing in their sandbox, or I
can go play in somebody else's sandbox, or I can
make one of my own.
This time, the biggest thing was, I was sitting at GenCon a
couple years ago.
And I knew this was coming because
fifth edition was coming.
And I knew what they needed to do.
And James Wyatt, after I did my seminar, James Wyatt was
like, I don't know what we're going to do.
We need so many people.
It's gone off the rails in so many ways.
And we need to do x, y, and z.
And I started laughing.
And I said, I know how you're going to do it.
And here's how you're going to do it.
And I explained to him some things that I had done.
When Ed Greenwood and I walked out of that meeting back in
2006, when we were told about the reboot for fourth edition,
Ed looked at me, and I thought he was going to start crying.
I mean, these were his realms, that had been taken away from
him, essentially, by this big change.
And he said to me, what are we going to do?
And I said, we're going to be smarter than them.
We're going to think long term.
And I had already started planning.
And Ed had already started planning.
All right, when they realize that these aren't the realms
that everybody loves, and they need to do something, we set a
planning back in 2006 how we were going to fix it for them.
That was how we looked at it.
We were going to fix Ed's realms.
And so I sat there in that room after the seminar at
GenCon a couple of years ago.
And I said, OK, James here's what I'm going to do.
And here's, I think, the way other
authors should do there's.
And he just looked at me after about 20 minutes of me
explaining to them in detail, and he said, how did you come
up with that?
I said, it took me a few years, but there it is.
And so fourth edition, a lot of times,
people would complain.
People complain whenever there's change.
Fourth edition people would complain to me about this or
that, and I would just hold up my hands and say, it's got
nothing to do with me.
You know, you're talking to the wrong person.
Fifth edition, not the game so much, but the things that go
on in the forgotten realms, if people want to complain to me
about what happens, I will take full responsibility,
happily, because I was part of it.
And I'm very proud of it.
TOM MERRITT: Christopher, and seconded by our own producer
Becca, want to know, because a lot of your books are
RPG-related, grid, or gridless?
RA SALVATORE: Grid or gridless?
I play?
We have a white board that I carved with an Exacto knife.
TOM MERRITT: That's pretty much a commitment to grid,
right there.
VERONICA BELMONT: That is grid.
Yeah, that's very grid-y.
Get it, gritty?
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, I do get that.
That's funny.
VERONICA BELMONT: Sorry, that's terrible.
I apologize.
RA SALVATORE: One thing I didn't like about fourth
edition, though, is the movement.
The fact that it was all about positioning.
It became [INAUDIBLE] game with positioning.
So even though we have the grid, that's just to draw the
lines straight, for me.
VERONICA BELMONT: Gotcha.
Nathan wants a little advice about publishing.
Do you think that self publishing
is the way the future?
Or are publishing companies almost essential to
succeed as an author.
RA SALVATORE: I have no idea.
And the reason I have no idea is because the model is
changing everything.
More than half of my back list books are ebooks now.
There's a big lawsuit going right now where the
independent bookstores are trying to open up the DRM
code, the kind of proprietary code for Kindle or Nook.
The independent stores say, we should be able to
sell Kindles books.
We should be able to sell Nook books.
And the people are saying, we want one format.
I mean, if you have a Nook, you want to be able to read
everything on it.
And if you have a Kindle, and is it going to go to
proprietary?
Are we having a VHS beta fight right now?
And I think we are.
And I think it's going to be very interesting to see what
happens because, from the very beginning, the question was,
are people going to treat the authors correctly?
You have to understand that an author's contract is based on
a model that no longer exists.
An author makes about 10% to 15% of a hardcover, maybe 6%
to 10% of a paperback.
But that model was set up in the days when publishers had
to have a sales force of hundreds of people because
there were so many independent bookstores.
There aren't anymore.
That model was up in the days when publishers, if they
wanted to sell 50,000 books, had to print 90,000 books and
eat the returns, because they didn't have
just-in-time printing.
And if you didn't have big enough print runs, it was
hugely expensive.
Now you can change a print run on the fly.
You can print ten books, and ten different books, ***,
***, just like that.
So the world has changed, but the contracts haven't.
If ebooks really become dominant, it begs the
question, why would an author work for a publisher, if the
author is only getting 15%?
And so I've been working with Wizards of the Coast
extensively on how to monetize short stories, how to make the
contracts more equitable to the authors.
And it's hard because even the publishers are going through a
lot of turmoil right now.
So for a new author coming in, I would never have said
self-published a few years ago.
Now it seems to be the way to go because one of the fallouts
of all this turmoil is, the publishers don't know what to
do anymore.
So they're reluctant to take people on.
So it's actually harder to get a publishing deal for a first
time author, now, than it was 10, 15, 25, 30 years ago.
Well, I don't know if it's harder.
It was always miserable.
For me, self publishing--
were I starting today, I would send it to all the publishers,
my manuscript.
If I didn't get a bite on it, I would think about self
publishing because it doesn't cost you anything, really-- a
few bucks, right?
It doesn't really cost you anything to self publish.
And try to build kind of a market for the book, go to Ren
fairs, do whatever I needed to do to build a little audience,
then go back to the publishers.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
And we've asked you before, when we had you on the audio
show at Dragon Con, about writing tips.
And you said to aspiring writers, if you can stop
writing, do it.
For people who may not have seen that interview, or
listened to that interview, can you sort of explain that?
And is that still your advice?
RA SALVATORE: Yeah, the advice remains the same.
If you can quit, quit.
If you can't quit, you're a writer.
And I say that because, if you're a writer, it means that
one of the ways that you make your way through life, this
journey of life, is by asking yourself questions and
answering them in your stories.
Writing is my journey.
When I have questions in my head or feelings in my heart
that I need to get out, I hear my characters in the books.
And I make those characters resolve the feelings for me.
This is true of every writer.
Some are very aware of it.
Others aren't.
But this is what writing is all about.
So it's almost like your way of making sense of the world.
And when you look at it that way, if you're a writer, then
there's no way you can not do that and be happy.
But if you can quit, if it's not that important to you,
that you can quit writing, and it's more about I want to make
money at this, I want fortune and fame, quit.
Because this business will kill you.
Because this business is, I can name you off
the top on my head.
And I won't.
But I could name you a dozen authors who you, if you are
ignorant of the business, probably think are living in
million dollar mansions and driving Ferraris who are
living on less than minimum wage as writers.
It is a tough, tough business.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, Absolutely.
VERONICA BELMONT: So we made it to through this whole
interview without asking a single Chewie question.
And I'm going to continue that.
But I am going to say, lots of folks want to know if, or
when, you will continue writing in
the "Star Wars" universe.
Are there anymore sequel novels in your future?
RA SALVATORE: Well, I think Del Ray still has-- in fact I
know go Del Rey still has the contract.
I'm not really doing much with them at the time.
I mean, it would depend on my schedule.
It would depend on their schedule, and if they asked.
I mean, it's the bottom line right now is, I
haven't been asked to.
And they have some pretty good writers over there in Aaron
Allston, and Karen Travis, and Troy Denning, of course, who I
lured back to the Forgotten Realms for "The Sundering." It
made me happy.
But I love Troy.
I love his work.
I wouldn't be averse to doing it, but it would have to be
the right project when I have time.
Right now, "The Last Threshold" just came out.
I've got a comic starting in April called "Cutter," from
IDW, another one of the comics about a side story to
the Dark Elf saga.
Also helped set up "The Sundering" in a different part
of the world.
I've got "The Companions" coming out in August.
I've got two books coming next year, and two books coming in
the year after.
VERONICA BELMONT: So you're keeping busy.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: You've got a lot going on.
RA SALVATORE: If that wasn't enough, I'm making
a game of my own.
A paper [INAUDIBLE].
Yeah, I did 20 years ago.
And I decided I wanted to try to put it back together.
So my son and I have been working on it, my son Bryan
and I who, he's a systems designer for games.
He's freelancing and contracting with a bunch of
companies right now.
But he had time, and so we've actually made a paper game
that we're perfecting, playing for my group right now.
And we're having a blast.
So who knows, maybe I'll do a Kickstarter.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, you should.
That'd be great.
Let us know if there's public information about that where
we can investigate that.
That sounds awesome.
RA SALVATORE: Yeah, well, I mean, I know friends who've
been doing Kickstarters, and getting their games out there,
and having a lot of fun.
For me, that's what this whole thing is about.
It's about having fun.
TOM MERRITT: Yeah, and it's always fun to talk to you.
Thank you so much, Bob, for taking the time to
chat with us today.
RA SALVATORE: Absolutely, my pleasure.
TOM MERRITT: "The Last Threshold," Neverwinter Saga
book four just came out March 5 in the US.
Go buy several copies.
VERONICA BELMONT: All of the copies.
But before we go, what would an author's guide be without a
white board video from Aaron explaining how Salvatore's
books have documented the changes in the D&D universe.
AARON: R. A. Salvatore write in plenty of series, including
the "Star Wars" universe, and personal YA favorite, the
Spearwielder tales.
However, about 2/3 of his work is set in the Dungeons and
Dragons universe.
Considering how the game has changed over time provides a
kind of handy index to the development of Salvatore's
writing style.
During the first post-Tolkien flood of fantasy, you could
feel the genre, including Salvatore's books, stretching
over now familiar tropes like a gelatinous cube engulfing a
loan adventure.
It's all dungeon crawls and swashbuckling fight scenes.
In the '90s, second edition was all about new settings and
broader world building.
Salvatore's Underdark setting got major attention, and his
protagonist's engaged in epic wars, and
cross dimensional intrigue.
With third edition, D&D caught up to the grunge movement.
Every character had an angst-ridden back story, and
armor was covered with spikes.
Salvatore's writing during this period is deeply
internalized, incorporating lengthy meditations on
morality and identity-- between sword fights.
This was good prep for fourth editions Points of Light
setting-- a bleacker, crueler world which made heroism a
difficult proposition to maintain.
Now the announcement of a new edition, codenamed make Next,
has fans speculating wildly about the future of the game
and its most prominent chronicler.
Will Drizzt and company recover their youthful
idealism or follow the current trend of gritty, dark fantasy?
Will we run out of Cheetos and Mountain Dew before we know
the answers?
I, for one, lurk in my mom's basement, metaphorically
speaking, eager for the answers--
I emphasize, metaphorically.
VERONICA BELMONT: That was awesome, as usual.
And in fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think that is
actually a second Salvatore-related whiteboard
that Aaron has done.
TOM MERRITT: He did a Drizzt one before, right.
VERONICA BELMONT: He did, I'm positive because I remember
seeing it in my head, like what Drizzt
looks like to Aaron.
TOM MERRITT: RA Salvatore in a special club of white
board-ness.
VERONICA BELMONT: Maybe he'll end up in a white board video.
TOM MERRITT: Along with, yeah, people who have been in white
board videos.
VERONICA BELMONT: [LAUGH]
Just a word before we go--
we're nearing the end of our year long
run on Geek and Sundry.
It's been absolutely fantastic.
We're so happy to have met and reached all of you new fans
out there on the show.
And don't forget, you can still read along with us on
our audio podcast, and, of course, in
our good reads group.
TOM MERRITT: That's right folks, but we're not being
assassinated.
We've got two more video episodes.
And as always, you want more "Sword and
Laser," go to GoodReads.
Sign up for our goodreads.com forum.
Subscribe to our audio podcast at swordandlaser.com.
And keep getting all the awesome Geek and Sundry shows
by subscribing to our YouTube channel at
youtube.com/geekandsundry.
VERONICA BELMONT: You know, I don't know if we can say that
we're not being assassinated.
I haven't read the fine print in the contract.
So I'm assuming--
TOM MERRITT: Oh, I'll review that.
We may be back?
We'll see you next time.
VERONICA BELMONT: Bye.