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So there has been a lot of back-and-forth in the last couple of years about whether
or not those red-light cameras are legal at all, or if they violate our constitutional
rights and whether or not we are actually supposed to pay those fines we get in the
mail... you get in the mail, not me. Here to set the record straight on red-light camera
tickets is Andy Crouppen of Brown and Crouppen. Andy, good morning. Welcome back to you.
How's it going?
It is going very well. I am glad that you are on that side of the couch because I feel
uncomfortable about this topic matter. I feel like maybe we are going to make someone mad.
But the reality is that there are still some question marks about the legality and the
wording of these laws in different municipalities. Is it constitutional, these red-light cameras,
at their foundation?
A lot of people want to know that. And it comes down sometimes how these statutes are
enacted. Before they were teasing this segment, they wanted to settle this and answer this
question once and for all, and I wish I could come on here and say, "Matt, you rip it up
and toss it out and that's the end of it." It is not that easy.
But it actually kind of sounds like in some municipalities, if you do not pay, you might
be in the legal right.
Possibly. Like in the city of St. Louis, the law is sort of in limbo. A judge recently
ruled that they were unenforceable. However, a city counselor said, "I don't care what
the judge says. We are going to appeal this and we are enforcing them." The difference
is... the distinction is that in the city, the way the ordinance is written, they are
going after the driver, as opposed to in municipalities like Creve Coeur and over in the State of
Illinois, what they are doing is treating them like parking tickets, and so they are
going after the owner of the car. The statutes in Creve Coeur state specifically that you
cannot be arrested if you do not pay these, so they really are treating them as if they
are attaching them to the car and not the driver.
And there is wording in there, in the example of Creve Coeur that you brought up, that basically
treats this as if you let your brother-in-law borrow your car, he takes it to Chicago and
gets a parking ticket, it is you as the owner of that vehicle that is on the hook for that
parking ticket. It is you and Creve Coeur on the hang-up for the red light cam.
Exactly. You are not going to get arrested if you fail to pay it. You may get The Boot,
but it is no different than a parking ticket. In the city, they treated it a little differently.
The way they handled it, there were not points assigned to it, but it was charged to the
driver, so for instance to get out of the ticket, you could say, "No, no, no. That was
my friend Junior driving my car. I let him borrow it," and you had to rat somebody else
out to exonerate yourself. The judge found that (a) the city did not have the authority
to do it; the state of Missouri would have to grant them the power to do it, and (b)
there are some real problems with the law. They are appealing it, like I said. I do not
know what the outcome will be. In terms of paying them, we discussed Creve Coeur, they
can come after you just like a parking ticket. The city is a little different. The city counselor
is saying they are going to enforce them. A judge has said it is not enforceable. So
what I would say: They do have the power to arrest you in the city over these, but it
is my understanding they have not yet done that, but they could do that at any time,
especially now that the court system has said... you know, there is this battle. I hope they
would wait to arrest people until the appeal is finished, but you never know. I would say
if you are a super-cautious person, and you feel like I can't have this outstanding, I
have to pay it, I have to sleep at night...
Pay it...
Well, pay it, but what you can do, you can make some notation on your payment that you
are paying it under protest. The reason that is important is because otherwise, if it ever
is settled, which God-knows how long that will be, if you have not paid it under protest,
you can't get your money back. You have voluntarily paid it. If you pay it under protest, you
may have an argument for your hundred bucks.
Well a hundred bucks is a lot of money.
It's a hundred bucks!
Andrew, thank you very much. If you have a legal question for Brown and Crouppen, e-mail
us at GreatDay@KMOV.com. We will pass it along.