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No! Don't let him put me in there with all those other butts.
Well, I've actually got a whole sheep in here. It's a mutton.
I've been cooking this thing all night for this episode of
Food News & Chews. What do you think about that?
Oh, man.
This is Monroe County Dip. We got that from our buddyâ
Where is everybody else's?
We got this from our buddy Wes Berry, with KY BBQ
he's our guest on the show. Can't wait for the next segment,
interview with him. Then we have the ultimate pot luck recipe
It's his kicked up Cornbread Salad from the book. Can't wait
to try it out with some of this mutton.
Oh, yeah.
Excuse us while we eat. We'll be back with Food News & Chews.
Hey! Welcome to Food News & Chews and this is the
Food News. It's the barbecue edition and Food News. And,
we're going to bring you some barbecue headlines.
We have a barbecue. You've got to excuse me, I'm a little bit loopy.
I've been putting wood on a fire all night, doing the low and slow
barbecue method. We've got our friend Wes Berry on the
episode today.
Yeah.
And, he's written a book called Kentucky barbecue.
Well, sure. And you been preparing. And, tell us a
little bit about the barbecue newsâ the sauces and that
kind of stuff. It's the rage right now and actually, barbecue
is very popularâ
It's in the limelightâ
âalong with beer.
Picnics and family style gatherings are really in and
we've spent all night long doing some mutton
and some brisket and some shoulder and just kind of
exploring different regions but you know, Sylvia
always has some good food news for me.
Yeah, let's get into some food news. Hey! Interesting
thing, food safety is increasing as a concern. It's nearly
everyday in the summer and while this will have been
a bit in the past, a couple weeks by the time people see this show.
The latest thing is ***. Do you believe people are messing with
***?
Now, I think there is actually a safety label or a safety disclosure
on the side of a bottle.
This couldâ
What's wrong with ***?
âthis could make you blind. Anyway, seriously, it does bring back
the issue that I know you're passionate about which is
knowing where your food comes from.
Sure.
Which may be even more important than local.
It's very important. So, ***?
...is being contaminated with methanol and bleach.
Isn't that what it's made of anyway?
Anyway, let's move on.
Wow.
Food trucks are big into barbecue. And why is that Jeremy?
Is it easier to cook? Why do we have such a thing going on
in barbecue?
It's the portability of it, you can prep barbecue ahead of time.
Transports well.
Transports well.
You know, plus smokersâ all you really need is a good fire
a good wood fire and you can do that anywhere. You
can do that in the woods so barbecue just seems to be a great
thing for festivals, good for sharing, great for large populations.
And they say, you know, here's a kind of a thing with Paula Deen
having been in the news a lot.
Yeah.
It's fairly low cal. I'm getting somewhere with this.
Uh-huh.
Anyway, fairly low cal stuff.
Not when I make it.
It's got all kinds of sauce and all of that. You know, but obesity was
just declared a disorder. A disorder.
What are your thoughts on that? I guessâ you know we're talking
about disorder versus a disease, right? Which one is it?
Well, it's kind of the same thing. Now, they think it will lead
to a lot more research because it falls now into a category.
It's kind of interestingâ
So, they labeled it a disease though not just a disorder?
Yeahâ well, it's called a disorder.
Okay.
But I think it is kind of the same thing because they categorize it
as something we need to really be paying attention to and
Paula Deen is so interesting in that whole thing too because she
had all of that going on with Diabetes and all thatâ and late
night jokesâ you know, "Paula Deen has a great heart. Well, only
when she stops eating her own food." That sort of thing you know.
Ohhhhh, yeah that's right.
But I mean, it's all real interesting that we'reâ
I guess that obesity comes intoâ
And Bloomberg with all of his stuffâ
âgenetic issues. And talk about lifestyle choices also with obesity.
You know also if they are going to classify it then it's the AMA that did that.
Yeah.
Maybe they did it to code it better to make it easier toâ for insurance companies
to pay for it.
It all leads to all of that.
Yeah. No, that's exactly right. Uhâ Beer. Does beer go with barbecue?
You know, I'm a wino.
Yeah, beer definitely goes with barbecue. That's like peas and carrots.
Well, here's some news.
And some other things I can say.
Alltech and Dr. Pearse Lyons
Yeah.
One of our great sponsors and a great source of material and information.
He's at the Irish Gathering where they are going to try to get people to come to
Ireland all year long who have roots there.
Sure.
I'm going. Are you? I'm half Scotch. Half Bourbon. Half wine.
Isn't that about how to brew beer, the history of beer?
Well, he's going to serve Johnathon's Woodsongs,
MIchael Johnathon's Woodsongs will perform in Ireland here in July of 2013
and they are going to serve Bourbon Barrel Ale.
Nice.
And so, get people to come to Ireland to drink Bourbon Barrel Ale.
Sounds good. Kentucky & Ireland.
Let's do it.
Final piece of news is interesting. Nickelodeon,
all of this stuff about Bloomberg. Trying to save the world, Big Gulps
and require composting and all of that kind of stuff. Disney, decided
to take away all advertising you know the GMO stuff,
Whole Foods is refusing.
What do you mean by take away all advertising?
Advertising that is bad for kids.
Oh, I see.
Advertising sugary kinds of things. Well guess who
stood up against that?
Who?
Nickelodeon. You've got little kids. What do you think about that?
Well, I think that's, guest I've got to hand it to Disney. I think it's a really
nice thing. Even though my daughter is only three years old she is always,
"I want that and can I have that?" "Will you buy me this?"
"Can we eat this?"
Yeah.
You know just the commercialism just sinks in very young and it can
really influence your decisions.
Well, think about that because Nickelodeon said they're in charge
of programming, not food choices. Anyway, we'll be back with
talking about food choicesâ yummy.
Yeah.
Yummers. Barbecue. We'll be right back with Food News & Chews.
Welcome back to Food News & Chews and I'm sitting here
between twoâ I finally had to sit between them because all they want
to talk about is butts.
I was getting a little self conscience so anywayâ Jeremy! Tell me about...
I'm with my pal Wes Berry a.k.a. Professor Pork Belly. That's a great name
somebody dubbed to you, right?
I dubbed myself.
Dubbed and rubbed. We're talking butts, we're talking and pork shoulders
and mutton and brisket and all the good stuff that is good barbecue, right?
All those good smokey treats, you got it!
Man, I can smell it! We're here at Azur.
Ahhh, it smells so good.
We're going to be doing a great big dinner tonight.
You'll hear about it later and we'll be like, "Oh, my gosh. We have eaten
way too much."
Well, we did all these styles of barbecue which I really wasn't even familiar
with and as a chef I know two rules. Low & slow.
What is the low part?
The low means temperature.
Ohhhhh.
And the slow means time.
I told you I don't know anything about cooking.
Right on.
He cooks everything that I do, Jeremy.
It refers to my I.Q. and my metabolism.
Hey. Quickly. The CNN guy said the other morning that the camera
adds ten pounds to you and takes away ten I.Q. points. That means
I am in the minus.
You guys are too witty. I will have to catch up.
Tell us about all of this.
Well, you know. I started out in 2009 with an idea to eat at every
barbecue place in Kentucky.
Look how trim you are.
Well, I'm shaved some off.
It's low cal though.
Yeah, absolutely.
Actually, barbecue is supposed to be.
100% American protein. It's like the Atkins Diet, I guess.
Yeah, it's not like cream sauces it's more like and Jeremy you know about sauces.
You just put away the potato salad and the sauce and the banana pudding
and all the good fixings and you're okay. Meat and a dry rub. Have all you want.
When I hit the road, I am looking to taste meats primarily. I've eaten at 170
barbecue places now in Kentucky.
One hundred seventy.
I tend to not eat side dishes unless they were awesome.
That's true. You can choose. You have to know some taste to know what they are.
But, you've got this. Tell us about this.
That's right. I have written a book called the Kentucky BBQ Book.
It came out in March. In the book I showcase my favorite places.
Places that ranked at least good on my Good Scale.
Right. I did some of the recipes from in there and there's different
regions and styles in Kentucky which hopefully we can talk about.
But, I only found a couple typos and one of them is that Azur was not in there.
I figured maybe after tonight for the second printing.
You need an Addendum.
I see now you do barbecue.
How many barbecue places, I mean how would you find out how many there were?
Well, at first I hit the internet but I also calledâ
Just people whoâ
Real estate offices, word of mouth. I used many ways of finding out of where to go.
Sure.
Yeah. Are you from Western Kentucky? Right?
I'm from Barren County, Glasgow is the seat of that county.
Yeah.
Originally.
I love that place and Bowling Green.
South Central Kentucky is what we call it.
Yeah. Yeah, but Jeremy what about the regions of the state?
Western Kentucky is one of them.
Well, I think this is a good way to kind of pose the question.
What would be maybe the one meat or style that kind of defines KY
because nobody else seems to really do it?
You know, I started writing this book on Kentucky barbecue because
it ticked me off when I would watch the television and I would see the shows
on America's best barbecue and they would never mention about barbecue
in Kentucky.
Sure.
They mention the big four places.
North Carolina. What are the big four places?
North Carolina, Memphis, Kansas City, Texas.
Okay.
Right.
So, and I grew up eating stuff called Monroe County style.
Very weird. They take a Boston Butt, they freeze it, slice it thinly
on a band saw, basically, grill these thin pork steaks over hickory coals for
about 15-45 minutes. They sop it with this weird sauce of butter, lard, vinegar
cayenne pepper and black pepper and salt.
It is weird.
More like a kind of a North Carolina sauce.
It is.
East North Carolina sauce. That's what I thought barbecue was.
When I hit the roads, I discovered that Western Kentucky is mostly
about whole pork shoulder cooked for a really long time over hickory coals
some people use Boston Butts. Around Davis County/Owensboro you've
got the mutton tradition.
Oh, yeah. What's the big place there?
Uhhh, well Owensboro's most famous restaurant in the state, Old Hickory
is beloved by many.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, mutton is old sheep.
How old is that place?
Old Hickory?
Yeah.
Been in business since like 1918, I think.
Wow.
So, that's pretty solid.
I bet there are some real stories out there too.
Yeah, totally. I met many characters in my travels. So, the book
actually started out to be a simple guide but it turned out to be stories
about people who do the work, anecdotes about Kentucky landscapes and
language and recipesâ
Yeah. You're an English professor, right?
I do teach.
So that led you to this and you're a native of Western Kentucky.
Yeah, so did you get into cooking the barbecue or just more are you more
Uhhâ
âmore the aficionado of tasting?
Both. I smoke meats at home a lot. But I have also been a food freak all my life.
I just wanted to be able to do something that would enable me to hit the roads and
talk to people and eat a lot.
Man, that sounds likeâ
Check, check, check!
â hit the jackpot on that! Barbecue is great. It's got such a great history.
Especially in the whole south. It kind of bridges all of your different classes
and different sides, amazing stuff. I see where you've got a passion for it but
also wanted to learn how to cook it. You know, there are so many versatile
things to do barbecuing versus grilling is a whole different argument. Like the one
thin pork steaks you're talking aboutâ that's more like grilling.
It's grilling!
Right! As opposed to western low and slow as we know as barbecue.
Yeah.
Lots of good stuff.
What do you like to drink with your barbecue?
Sauce, right?
Oh, there's sauce, right. Something called beer. Doesn't that go with barbecue?
You know. If you're talking about what I really want to drink with barbecue
it would be Sweet Tea. Seriously.
Hahaha. Yeah, right.
It goes really well. But also, some kind of pilsner or lager.
I'm sure there are some wines that go well with it. It's not my area.
Oh, that would be me. I'm a wino.
Gotcha.
I like Bourbons. Bourbons before, Bourbons after but not during.
Something very cold and refreshing because it's going to be hot outside when
you barbecue.
Yeah.
Jeremy, when you were in culinary schoolâ because barbecue is really
popular now. Food trucksâ I have the J.Renders on my shirt.
Yeah, yeah.
The food truck favorite and stuff because it's relatively inexpensive.
Mmm, I think it's kind of a big rebirth over the past five years.
It's very popular.
It is popular. It's kind of a good ole American tradition. Remnants of the
recession. People are getting back in the community, gathering. Barbecue
is a good thing for that.
Yeah.
It's where everybody bringsâ it's almost like a potluck, a social interaction
and that's kind of what we all came back to. I would say in culinary school
barbecue is kind of shunned. Just like old Southern cuisine. It was considered
fattening, processed and dirty and sloppy but it's not. It's actually way more
pure and traditional. Even though there are things like canning and preserving
and pickling it doesn't seem fresh but you're taking something at the peak of its'
season and preserving it.
Oh, nice.
Perfect flavors.
Hey! What's next? What's next? You've done barbecue tasting all over.
Yeah.
Now, how are you going to branch out? And grow your barbecue?
Writing a book is a whole lot of work.
Take a vacation, right?
I'm hosting a little tv show down Bowling Green way.
What is that?
It's calledâ a segment of the Local Traveller.
Yeah.
Amy Hess.
Yes, Amy Hess she is great.
So, basically, I would like to do more tv stuff.
Oooh, oooh!
Join us, we love it!
It's fun business. As long as I get to have fun, talk to people and eat food
I'm pretty happy with that.
Now, what do you think about barbecue sauce?
I can appreciate many different kinds of sauces but I like the meat that
stands on its' own. Like a dry rub. Some of my favorite places in Western
Kentucky, they just salt the meat and put it on the pit and a couple of places
put it on the pit even without salt.
Wow.
They give flavor through some dipping sauces and stuff like that. Like
Old Hickory in Owensboro their Worcestershire base mutton dip.
Mmmm. Hmmm.
Yeah.
Well, okay. Sounds great. Well, Jeremy you've got a lot of sauces that
you're getting ready to prepare. Do you like sweet?
We've got a few different kinds of varieties but more importantly we actually
have some good fixins'. Some kicked up a cornbread salad recipe from the book.
We're going to do it in the next segment. Wes is going to put that together for us.
Alright. That sounds great. Now, I'm sitting here between two buttsâ. I mean
two really great guys and we'll be right back with Food News & Chews with Wes Berry.
Uhâ Jeremy. Don't interrupt me. I'm trying to learn how to cook.
First time I've ever hear you read a cookbook Sylvia.
That's like an oxymoron. Sylvia cook. Doesn't belong in the same sentence.
Hey! We're back. We're back with Food News & Chews. And tell us
what we're going to be doing here and you've got to get this book because
that is where the recipe is.
We're here with Wes Berry if you're just tuning into us now.
Hey Folks!
Wes Berry A.K.A. Professor Pork Belly, I love that name,
I've got to keep bringing it up.
It's awesome! He's got all the research.
Look how trim he is.
Cool thing is I went through this book almost page by page looking
for some good finds. This is one of the recipes that stood out for summertime.
We're going to be doing this around mid-summer; when the show is going to be on.
Mmmhmm.
We want to give you guys some ideas of something you can take to a potluck.
A great idea.
Yeah. Cornbread salad rocks! I love it! Cornbread is great by itself but when
you put all of this good stuff in there I will eat it for leftover, breakfast, lunch
dinner and for a midnight snack.
Yum!
I love that.
I love that too.
For all times.
And one thing that seems to beâ talk about cornbread for a minute. You know
in the Southâ a lot of people in the North add flour to your cornmeal and
that makes it more cake-y.
Sure
But in the South, it's straight corn. Corn meal some eggs, a leavener and
typically, it's great when it comes out of the oven but the next dayâ
it leaves a lot to be desired.
That's right. It dries out some and this is a way you can take that leftover
cornbread and do something goooood with it.
Show us what's up?
Alright, here you go.
Alright.
So, you've got your leftover cornbread. What we're going to do is just layer
this cornbread salad.
Mmmhmmm.
In a bowl. I start with half of the cornbread, we have black eye peas
I also use pinto beans here. Just simply layer this stuff on there.
Fresh tomato.
Good, nice tomatoes. Go ahead Sylvia.
Did you pick upâ where did you pick up these recipes? Are these your own
original ones?
No, no. I've seen different cornbread salads around for years.
Just around? And they just happen to go with barbecue.
You've got it. Tony's Barn.
Fresh corn. I must say this was fresh, it wasn't cooked but you know
if you're going to leave this overnight the acids in the buttermilk and the
sour cream will cook that corn...
Mmmhmmm.
right in the bowl. But if you're going to precook, whip it together, sauté it
and then take it over.
Right on.
You know, I just put some olives in there. I never saw someone's cornbread
salad recipe that has olives in it but I love olives of all kinds, why not?
You know, if you live anchovies you could probably put some anchovies
in here.
Oh, that's okay. We'll stick with this.
So, olives, cheeseâ
Cheddar cheese.
â but the point isâ you can use Monterey Jack or any kind cheese you like.
This sounds like a very creative thing.
We've got some greenâ poblano peppers, I often use regular green peppers.
Right.
You know it's kind of like a seven layer dip but even the corn chips are in it
so I can just eat it like a bowl of cereal.
You got it.
Really.
One of the essential ingredients of a cornbread salad is a sauce. You've
got sour cream, mayonnaise and ranch dressing spices.
The more of this the better and so basically, to make the whole
salad you want to do this again, right?
Just layer it up!
Make a layer salad.
It is like a layer salad.
It's a glass bowl so you can see how awesome it is.
Pretty.
An impressive party food for sure.
Ahhh, here comes the tomatoes.
You know you can do this in July and August in Kentuckyâ
those tomatoes are going to be rocking. You've got to buying local too.
You've got it.
You know folks, when I was traveling around the state eating barbecue
a lot of folks put out the same basic side dishes; potato salad, beans
and slaw. It's rare to find a place that actually puts out interesting side dishes.
No offense to my people here but I find myself asking time and time again
"Why can't you give me an interesting side dish?" Tony's Barn
in Lawrenceburg actually is the onlyâ
Tony's Barn.
Tony's Barn is the only place in the state that I had cornbread salad.
Trinka's Cornbread Saladâ
That's this recipe.
Yes, recipe in the book.
Page 299.
Her salad is not as decadent as this one but it is kind of
a basic cornbread salad.
I love decadent.
Yeah, sure.
Oh, that sounds delicious.
Anyway, I would say thatâ
Does this need to chill?
Let it sit in the refrigerator for a couple of hours and let it marry.
Yeah.
Then again eat it at anytime of the day. It's good for you.
That sounds great.
Hey before we go away I want to make sure people know
how to find your book. I saw it in our local bookstores but is there a way
do you have a website?
Thanks for asking. Yes, I do have a website. I'm a walking billboard.
Ahhhh.
It's right here. wesberryliving.com Thank you Martha Stewart.
Sylvia, you've got to get a spoon here. I'm about to dive into it.
Alright.
If you want me to sign a copy for you and support the hungry professor
go to there and order one and I will ship it right to you. But also
local bookstores have it.
Alright, we've got to try this.
Yes, folks get the book. The recipes are a lot of fun. I enjoyed
having a cookout. Wes, thanks for hanging out.
Ohhhh, that is so good.
My pleasure, thank you for having me on. Oh, and by the way
you can put bacon in here too.
Ohâ baconâ that would kill me.
Isn't this good?
Oh, man that's delicious.
All fresh ingredientsâ it's great!
Alright, well, go to his website, get the book, page 299. Okay.
And we'll be back next week with Food News & Chews.
Oh, man. I'm taking that to my next barbecue.
It's good. That stuff is great man.
I know.