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17:21:17:12 �� 17:30:00:18 Coming up next on "Arizona
17:30:10:00 Horizon's" "Journalists' 17:30:11:15 Roundtable," the first
17:30:12:21 gubernatorial debate is in the 17:30:14:06 books.
17:30:14:21 We'll discuss who won, who lost 17:30:16:09 and what was learned.
17:30:17:15 And the Arizona Chamber of 17:30:17:27 Commerce backs a Democrat for
17:30:21:06 statewide office. 17:30:22:18 Those stories and more next on
17:30:24:21 "Journalists' Roundtable." 17:30:27:09 >>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
17:30:29:06 possible by contributions from 17:30:30:24 the Friends of Eight, members
of 17:30:32:09 your Arizona PBS station.
17:30:33:18 Thank you. 17:30:34:27 >>> Good evening, and welcome
to 17:30:37:03 "Arizona Horizon's"
17:30:38:15 "Journalists' Roundtable," I'm 17:30:39:06 Ted Simons.
17:30:39:27 Joining us tonight, Luige del 17:30:41:03 Puerto of the "Arizona Capitol
17:30:42:00 Times," Howard Fischer of 17:30:45:00 "Capitol Media Services," and
17:30:46:03 Bob Christie of the Associated 17:30:47:21 Press.
17:30:48:18 Fred DuVal and Doug Ducey went 17:30:51:09 at it in their first
17:30:52:24 face-to-face debate this week. 17:30:55:15 Luige, looked like education and
17:30:58:24 maybe the economy are the focus 17:31:03:00 here?
17:31:04:00 >> They are obviously the big 17:31:07:06 focuses of the debate.
17:31:08:24 We can see a stark contrast in 17:31:12:18 how they view the government,
17:31:14:03 how they view spending, and what 17:31:16:03 they want to do.
17:31:16:21 Both of them of course want to 17:31:18:15 improve the state's economy, but
17:31:19:27 there are some clear differences 17:31:22:03 that we've known all along.
17:31:23:24 I think they are both very 17:31:25:12 articulate, did pretty well.
17:31:27:27 I think DuVal probably needed 17:31:32:00 this debate more than Ducey.
17:31:34:09 He's a beneficiary of the 17:31:36:15 primary.
17:31:42:03 Duvall probably needs to more 17:31:47:03 define himself.
17:31:49:21 >> He's decided that education 17:31:51:00 is the key.
17:31:52:03 We can talk all we want about 17:31:54:03 cutting taxes, attracting big
17:31:56:21 business. 17:31:57:12 Companies aren't going to come
17:31:58:15 here until we have good 17:32:00:00 education.
17:32:00:18 We've shorted schools $300 17:32:02:21 million a year for four or five
17:32:03:15 years. 17:32:05:03 We owe them the money, let's pay
17:32:07:21 them the money and let's invest. 17:32:10:09 >> What we hear from Doug Ducey
17:32:11:21 is well, yeah, the courts did 17:32:13:27 rule, let's drag this out a
17:32:15:18 little longer and see if we can 17:32:17:09 revamp the structure, how the
17:32:19:06 money's paid out. 17:32:20:15 And saying trust me, because
17:32:22:09 I'll have a plan for how we will 17:32:25:03 redo the money, but I don't know
17:32:26:24 what it is. 17:32:27:06 >> And that's really difficult
17:32:28:18 for Doug Ducey because he has --
17:32:30:12 you know, he's campaigned, his 17:32:33:03 signature line is I've grown a
17:32:35:03 company, now I'm going to shrink 17:32:37:12 a government.
17:32:38:09 >> He was asked repeatedly what 17:32:40:21 are you going to shrink, and he
17:32:42:27 generally wouldn't answer those 17:32:44:21 questions.
17:32:45:09 I'm going to go through the 17:32:46:27 budget line by line.
17:32:48:03 He's the state treasurer, he 17:32:50:27 ought to know that budget
17:32:52:12 forwards and backwards and he 17:32:53:27 didn't answer the question.
17:32:55:03 >> But to be fair, neither did 17:32:57:00 DuVal.
17:32:58:15 He said procurement 17:33:00:24 reapportionment: I'm sorry,
17:33:02:00 those are nickels in the couch. 17:33:05:15 Our maybe we'll privatize the
17:33:09:21 lottery. 17:33:10:27 >> That's exactly the point,
17:33:11:27 that's one-time money. 17:33:13:18 $550 million in rainy day fund.
17:33:16:21 >> The state trust plan, I think 17:33:18:15 it's 4.5, that's been floating
17:33:23:24 around, the state trust lands 17:33:26:12 fund is up to four or $5 billion
17:33:29:24 or so. 17:33:30:18 >> We have a lot of big ideas,
17:33:31:27 but no idea how to incorporate 17:33:33:24 them in the real world.
17:33:35:27 >> This is really where the 17:33:37:09 realities of running a
17:33:38:12 government, you know, and it 17:33:40:15 clashes with campaign rhetoric.
17:33:42:12 What you have is that a state 17:33:46:03 that will have a deficit next
17:33:47:15 year, not to mention the 17:33:48:24 court-ordered K-12 funding that
17:33:51:15 will have to come up with money 17:33:53:21 for that, but our resources
17:33:55:18 really are not enough to cover 17:33:57:03 our expenses.
17:33:58:18 That is the first thing either 17:34:00:03 one will have to solve from Day
17:34:01:27 One. 17:34:02:15 That starts next session.
17:34:04:09 >> And that's where it gets 17:34:06:00 tricky.
17:34:07:09 Ducey says right out of the 17:34:09:00 gate, I will not raise taxes.
17:34:19:21 DuVal has not really said. 17:34:25:06 Taking a look at job recovery,
17:34:27:18 how do we do this? 17:34:29:12 Do we want the government -- if
17:34:30:24 we want a $6 million government, 17:34:33:18 we can do that, maybe the
17:34:35:09 University, maybe a couple of 17:34:36:27 prisons or things like that, but
17:34:39:00 you've got to decide, if you 17:34:40:18 want government, education,
17:34:43:00 K-12, how do you pay for it. 17:34:45:09 >> The income tax has been cut.
17:34:48:18 Recently taxes were raised by 17:34:50:15 the citizenry said I think I
17:34:52:12 understand for education we need 17:34:54:21 that penny sales tax for three
17:34:56:21 years. 17:34:57:06 >> And that's why we're in this
17:34:58:18 education mess that we're in. 17:35:00:18 We managed to get over the
17:35:02:00 recession with this temporary 17:35:03:24 sales tax.
17:35:04:03 It went away. 17:35:05:12 They tried to make it permanent,
17:35:07:06 but they cut a billion and -- 17:35:14:06 $1,300,000 illegally.
17:35:17:06 The temporary sales tax is gone 17:35:18:18 and you've got this huge hole
in 17:35:20:27 the budget.
17:35:26:18 Ducey's problem is he's going to
17:35:29:06 cut taxes even more. 17:35:31:06 I don't know how you're going
to 17:35:33:03 fill this giant budget gap --
17:35:35:24 >> We're going to make it up in 17:35:38:09 volume.
17:35:39:00 Don't you understand how this 17:35:40:03 works?
17:35:41:03 >> Talking about cutting taxes, 17:35:42:27 and you're right, we did this
17:35:45:27 estimate a couple weeks ago. 17:35:48:06 Our estimate is $800 million
17:35:51:09 would be given away in tax cuts 17:35:53:09 in the next three fiscal years.
17:35:55:21 That's a remarkable amount of 17:35:57:06 money.
17:35:57:18 If we are already doing that at 17:35:59:09 a time when we are facing a
17:36:01:21 deficit, and you're thinking 17:36:03:15 about cutting the income tax,
17:36:05:18 the individual taxes constitute 17:36:08:12 around 41% of the state's
17:36:10:12 budget. 17:36:10:21 If you add the corporate, it's
17:36:12:24 like 49%, it's like half of the 17:36:16:00 budget.
17:36:16:18 The sources of half of the 17:36:18:12 budget, doing away -- economists
17:36:20:21 have said it's not possible. 17:36:23:00 >> That led to the best line of
17:36:24:15 the night which was Fred DuVal, 17:36:30:00 fairy tale stuff.
17:36:32:00 I'd love to promise you balmy 17:36:35:12 summers.
17:36:36:03 >> He's used the tooth fairy 17:36:39:03 before, and he's going to use
it 17:36:41:03 again in the same way Ducey is
17:36:43:03 going to, as he did in the 17:36:45:00 debate, mention that DuVal was
17:36:48:03 responsible for increasing 17:36:49:15 tuition.
17:36:50:03 >> Which is despite "the 17:36:53:03 republic" saying it's a factual
17:36:57:18 statement. 17:36:58:06 A little misled there.
17:36:59:21 Going back to look at 2006 to 17:37:05:24 2012, 8500 to around 5,000, from
17:37:15:03 29% down to 17%. 17:37:17:06 They say look, we did make cuts,
17:37:19:21 we've made changes. 17:37:21:18 Fred talked about alternatives
17:37:24:03 to going into a classroom. 17:37:26:09 If you want three Universities
17:37:28:06 -- well, five, if you consider 17:37:31:03 major branch campuses as being
17:37:33:15 full-blown Universities, you 17:37:35:03 have to pay it for.
17:37:36:09 >> That's why this whole attack 17:37:38:00 is going wear thin after a
17:37:39:21 while. 17:37:40:06 That doesn't keep the Republican
17:37:41:24 governors' association from 17:37:44:03 running ads and thinking that's
17:37:46:21 where it goes. 17:37:47:24 Anybody who looks at the numbers
17:37:49:24 says, how do you keep the lights 17:37:51:09 on?
17:37:51:27 >> And DuVal saying, we did what 17:37:55:24 we had to do, we fixed your
17:37:58:03 mess, something along those 17:37:59:09 lines.
17:37:59:24 Did what we had to do, could go 17:38:01:27 on the other side with the
17:38:03:06 legislature saying we did what 17:38:04:27 we had to do as far as the
17:38:06:03 budget is concerned because 17:38:07:09 there was no money coming
17:38:08:24 anywhere. 17:38:09:09 >> That's absolutely true.
17:38:10:24 The problem right now is the 17:38:12:15 legislature, many state
17:38:14:27 legislatures around the country 17:38:16:09 tightened their belts, made
17:38:19:00 massive cuts, but didn't make 17:38:22:00 massive tax cuts.
17:38:23:03 Now that the economy is 17:38:25:15 rebounding, boom, they are flush
17:38:28:21 again. 17:38:29:12 Even California, in a much more
17:38:31:18 horrible deficit, has now got a
17:38:34:00 surplus because they didn't go 17:38:35:21 in and slash these taxes.
17:38:37:12 That's a philosophical argument 17:38:39:00 on either side.
17:38:40:00 The facts are that many states 17:38:41:27 now have extra money, they don't
17:38:43:12 have this cliff that we're 17:38:44:24 running up against because we've
17:38:47:03 cut a billion in revenue. 17:38:49:03 >> What's fascinating, we've cut
17:38:51:21 corporate income taxes by 30%, 17:38:54:06 individual income taxes by 10%,
17:38:56:18 after prior tax cuts from the 17:38:59:12 Symington administration.
17:39:01:06 We've given new tax credits to 17:39:03:12 research and development.
17:39:04:06 All in the idea that companies 17:39:05:18 would be coming here.
17:39:07:06 Yet when Tesla was looking, 17:39:09:18 where did they go?
17:39:10:27 They went to Nevada. 17:39:12:15 I recognize that Nevada is
17:39:14:18 giving away the store. 17:39:15:27 >> About $1.3 million.
17:39:18:24 >> But they may have State of 17:39:20:00 Oregon show for it.
17:39:21:15 The question becomes, okay, for 17:39:23:06 all this talk, we have a very
17:39:24:24 high business personal property 17:39:27:00 rate.
17:39:27:15 If you're a company, this table, 17:39:29:00 this coffee mug this, computer
17:39:30:27 is taxed every year. 17:39:32:12 That is antibusiness.
17:39:33:15 They have lowered that. 17:39:34:24 But at the point we're trying
to 17:39:37:03 take every little bit and say,
17:39:39:00 look, we're going keep cutting 17:39:40:24 it, if companies won't -- this
17:39:43:27 is the debate with common core 17:39:45:27 last year, where the chamber
17:39:49:15 came out and said, we will not 17:39:51:06 hire people.
17:39:52:24 Moat role larks Intel said, we 17:39:55:06 won't hire grads because they
17:39:57:09 are not turning out qualified 17:39:59:03 people.
17:39:59:24 >> There are two schools of 17:40:01:00 thought.
17:40:01:15 Most economists have said look, 17:40:03:18 if you want to attract the
17:40:05:21 businesses, Arizona has done as 17:40:07:24 much as it could have done.
17:40:09:27 We pretty much -- we are there 17:40:11:21 already.
17:40:12:03 We've cut as much as we've cut 17:40:14:03 to ensure those companies come
17:40:16:09 in. 17:40:16:18 We have to focus on incentives.
17:40:18:09 That's what they are saying. 17:40:19:18 We have to focus on cuts that
17:40:22:03 would incentivize companies to 17:40:24:00 come here.
17:40:24:18 >> And I think we have to focus 17:40:25:27 on quality of life issues and
17:40:28:15 education issues. 17:40:30:06 We've got the tax structure now.
17:40:32:15 Now, if we can -- many would say 17:40:35:00 if we stop with the 1062s and
17:40:37:21 1070s and stop putting up such 17:40:40:27 a horrible picture of state --
17:40:42:24 >> A suggestion of maybe just 17:40:44:27 carving a beachfront somewhere
17:40:47:15 and we'll be all set. 17:40:49:00 >> They do have that.
17:40:50:21 You mentioned common core, and 17:40:54:06 common core mentioned in the
17:40:56:03 debate. 17:40:56:12 Again, Doug Ducey not enamored
17:40:58:27 of common core. 17:41:00:03 We'll talk about the chamber of
17:41:02:06 commerce endorsing a Democrat 17:41:03:21 because of common core.
17:41:05:06 Yet a Republican candidate 17:41:08:09 endorsed by the chamber doesn't
17:41:11:06 seem to like common core. 17:41:13:24 How do you square that?
17:41:16:03 >> Ducey is a very good 17:41:17:27 politician, he's very good at
17:41:20:09 not getting pinned down. 17:41:21:27 >> We know he dislikes common
17:41:24:09 core. 17:41:24:21 But he hasn't declared he's
17:41:26:24 going to get rid of it right 17:41:28:15 away.
17:41:28:21 I think what's going to happen 17:41:31:00 is common core is going to stay
17:41:32:18 because we've had it for four 17:41:34:03 years and really what, do you
17:41:35:15 replace it with? 17:41:36:27 We're going have debates maybe.
17:41:39:00 But the fact of the matter is we
17:41:41:00 do need standards and right now 17:41:43:09 we don't have anything else
17:41:45:00 besides common core. 17:41:46:12 >> That was one of the points
17:41:47:09 the chamber made when I asked 17:41:48:24 about not endorsing Diane
17:41:50:21 Douglas but endorsing Doug 17:41:52:24 Ducey, they said, well, he
17:41:55:21 understands the need for 17:41:57:27 standards as opposed to Diane
17:41:59:18 off in la-la land. 17:42:04:03 >> There are teachers who say
if 17:42:05:27 you put in another standard they
17:42:07:21 are going to scream and yell all 17:42:09:24 the way down the hallway.
17:42:12:09 Goodness, gracious, when does it
17:42:15:09 stop? 17:42:16:00 >> We put these standards in
17:42:17:15 place, they are very -- they are 17:42:19:06 much different than the previous
17:42:20:15 ones. 17:42:21:27 They are gold standards.
17:42:23:06 They don't necessarily talk 17:42:25:15 about these are the curriculum,
17:42:27:03 is this is what your new student 17:42:30:03 needs to be able to understand
17:42:31:12 and reason at the end of the 17:42:33:06 day.
17:42:33:27 Problem for Mr. Ducey and a lot 17:42:37:00 of proponents of this, common
17:42:39:12 core was so politicized, it has 17:42:44:06 no --
17:42:45:06 >> Even John Huppenthal 17:42:46:27 equivocated saying he was for
17:42:49:00 it, against it, really for and 17:42:51:03 against it.
17:42:52:00 So that's right. 17:42:53:06 Maybe the Tea Party has won the
17:42:55:06 debate insofar as the public 17:42:57:18 perception of common core.
17:42:59:27 >> Had there been somebody other 17:43:01:18 than Barack Obama in Washington
17:43:04:06 perhaps we wouldn't have had the 17:43:06:09 same debate.
17:43:07:24 >> We'll go to the Diane Douglas 17:43:10:12 versus David Garcia.
17:43:12:12 Mr. Garcia was endorsed by the 17:43:14:15 chamber, the guy was the first
17:43:16:12 Democrat endorsed by the chamber 17:43:18:21 for statewide office since Janet
17:43:21:15 Napolitano in 2006, so it's a 17:43:24:00 rare thing.
17:43:25:24 Diane Douglas is a one-issue 17:43:28:09 person.
17:43:28:24 David Garcia, if you look at 17:43:30:24 him, he's worked in the
17:43:32:18 superintendent's office. 17:43:33:24 He's worked for Republican
17:43:35:12 superintendent and that's really 17:43:36:21 crucial.
17:43:37:09 >> And he understands, you know, 17:43:38:21 administration of large
17:43:40:15 education systems. 17:43:42:15 Diane Douglas has been on a
17:43:45:06 school board in Peoria. 17:43:46:18 I think that also worked in.
17:43:49:12 >> Yes. 17:43:49:21 And the other interesting thing
17:43:51:00 is that they never even 17:43:53:12 interviewed her.
17:43:54:06 They asked for her candidate 17:43:56:27 questionnaire which she
17:43:58:06 submitted. 17:43:59:00 They looked at it and said, we
17:44:01:03 know where you stand. 17:44:03:21 >> It goes a step beyond common
17:44:06:12 core. 17:44:06:24 When I talked to the Chamber's
17:44:09:24 president, he said you've got an
17:44:11:27 interesting situation. 17:44:13:12 One of the departments is
17:44:14:15 administering federal grants 17:44:16:09 above and beyond common core.
17:44:18:12 You have a woman who is 17:44:19:24 philosophically opposed to the
17:44:21:21 federal grant. 17:44:23:03 How can you put somebody into
a 17:44:24:21 job who doesn't believe in the
17:44:27:15 core duties of the job? 17:44:29:18 That's where it ended.
17:44:31:12 >> At the end of the day the 17:44:32:12 Superintendent of Public
17:44:32:12 Instruction, really, it's not a
17:44:35:18 policy position. 17:44:36:15 He can lobby for changes, he or
17:44:39:06 she or whoever becomes the next 17:44:41:21 superintendent, could say hey,
17:44:43:00 let's stop common cor,e, all he 17:44:44:24 or she wants but that authority
17:44:47:12 is not vested with the 17:44:49:00 superintendent.
17:44:49:12 >> We'll go further with that. 17:44:50:24 Is the Republican led
17:44:52:12 legislature -- I think we can 17:44:53:24 assume it's going to be a
17:44:55:12 Republican legislature again -- 17:44:56:18 are they going to listen to a
17:44:58:24 David Garcia, a Democrat? 17:45:01:06 >> Well, that's a really good
17:45:03:09 question. 17:45:03:24 It really depends on what he is
17:45:05:27 going to be asking for. 17:45:07:12 Huppenthal was asking for, what,
17:45:09:24 30, $32 million for his data 17:45:13:12 system he's been wanting to put
17:45:15:00 in place. 17:45:15:18 He had to fight so hard every
17:45:17:21 single year to get just bits and 17:45:20:09 pieces, just a small sum of what
17:45:22:06 he's asking for. 17:45:23:18 I guess at the end of the day
17:45:25:09 they have to fund it. 17:45:26:21 >> I think they also recognized
17:45:28:00 that again, Garcia's street cred 17:45:31:18 versus Diane Douglas, look, at
17:45:34:03 the point where I went up to the 17:45:37:12 governor and said, you've
17:45:38:12 endorsed the candidate for 17:45:41:21 statewide office.
17:45:44:15 >> What about Diane Douglas? 17:45:47:00 >> She looked at me and said,
I 17:45:48:27 won't be talking about that.
17:45:50:09 She backed almost anything with 17:45:52:15 a GOP label, will not back Diane
17:45:54:27 Douglas. 17:45:55:18 >> The voters vote, they are not
17:45:59:00 enamored on the right of the 17:46:00:21 Republican Party with common
17:46:01:27 core to say the least. 17:46:04:03 They will get support and this
17:46:06:00 will be a very close race. 17:46:09:00 >> I want to see whether the
17:46:10:24 chamber of commerce puts its 17:46:11:24 money where its mouth is and the
17:46:14:24 spending on this race. 17:46:16:03 Diane Douglas is running with
17:46:19:00 Clean Elections money and she's 17:46:20:21 going to be limited in her
17:46:22:09 spending. 17:46:22:27 I'm curious to see if the
17:46:25:21 chamber uses its political 17:46:28:06 advocacy arm on the debate.
17:46:30:15 >> Any winners? 17:46:32:03 Losers?
17:46:33:03 Haymakers? 17:46:34:12 What was the tenor of the
17:46:37:00 debate, any tone? 17:46:38:27 >> It was Les Resnick trying to
17:46:41:18 get them to answer questions, at
17:46:43:27 a certain point you can't just 17:46:46:09 say I'm going to sit there until
17:46:47:27 you answer. 17:46:48:18 I think perhaps a few extra
17:46:50:06 points for DuVal, only in the 17:46:53:09 sense that he has at least
17:46:55:03 defined himself for those who 17:46:56:21 watch as somebody who supports
17:46:58:15 education, and suggests he's got 17:47:01:09 something out there.
17:47:03:03 No real haymakers or anything 17:47:06:21 like that.
17:47:07:06 A few snide lines but that's it. 17:47:09:27 >> I was a little disappointed.
17:47:12:00 I expected that with all of the 17:47:15:06 debates we had, we would see him
17:47:18:12 start to roll out some of his 17:47:20:00 programs.
17:47:20:18 He didn't do that. 17:47:21:21 He wouldn't go through, he
17:47:23:09 didn't answer the question. 17:47:24:21 >> You and I will be sitting
17:47:26:15 there November 3rd. 17:47:27:27 >> I think that's the truth.
17:47:29:15 >> We'll see how he does on the 17:47:33:27 same-sex marriage, shifting
17:47:36:06 gears. 17:47:36:24 >> Fascinating decision for
17:47:38:12 what's -- when this started off, 17:47:41:00 there were actually two lawsuits
17:47:43:00 in federal court by different 17:47:45:00 groups challenging the long-term
17:47:46:21 state law about men and women 17:47:48:24 marrying, and the state voter
17:47:51:15 approved constitutional 17:47:52:18 amendment.
17:47:54:18 Meanwhile, they added up a 17:47:56:15 couple of plaintiffs, a guy
17:47:59:00 named Fred McGuire and George 17:48:02:24 Martinez, living together 45
17:48:05:00 years, got married in 17:48:07:00 California, got added to the
17:48:08:21 case to make sure one of them 17:48:10:24 would be able to smile.
17:48:13:03 George died in August. 17:48:17:27 State health department says we
17:48:19:24 can't do that, we don't honor 17:48:22:06 out-of-state marriages between
17:48:24:15 men and men. 17:48:26:18 They said, look, there are
17:48:28:09 reasons we need this. 17:48:30:21 He's entitled to be recognized.
17:48:34:24 He had a valid marriage and the 17:48:36:27 judge needs to recognize that.
17:48:38:21 He said narrowly on this one, 17:48:42:06 list this person.
17:48:43:15 >> But the much broader point 17:48:46:03 here, is that in unequivocal
17:48:49:24 language, the judge said, it 17:48:51:12 appears from everything I've
17:48:52:09 seen and all the other decisions 17:48:54:27 happening around the country,
17:48:57:12 Arizona's gay marriage ban is 17:49:01:09 likely to be unconstitutional.
17:49:05:21 >> In fact, I think you're 17:49:07:24 seeing a template.
17:49:10:00 >> It's a different judge. 17:49:11:24 >> It's the same judge exactly.
17:49:14:06 He said there is probably a 17:49:16:03 conflict between this same-sex
17:49:19:27 marriage ban and the U.S. 17:49:21:12 Constitution.
17:49:23:18 >> You're seeing the template of
17:49:26:03 what he'll rule on the bigger --
17:49:33:24 >> It focuses on this particular 17:49:35:24 --
17:49:36:03 >> The argument was well, we're 17:49:37:21 not guilty of discriminating
17:49:39:27 against people on the basis of 17:49:41:27 *** orientation.
17:49:44:21 Duh, the only reason they can't 17:49:46:15 marry is because of their ***
17:49:48:12 orientation. 17:49:49:06 >> And again, it applies only
to 17:49:50:27 this couple.
17:49:51:24 We want to make sure we get the 17:49:53:09 state's position on this.
17:49:54:15 They said it was unfortunate it 17:49:56:18 was the case between these two
17:49:59:09 gentlemen, but there was no 17:50:00:21 irreparable harm, thus no need
17:50:03:15 for emergency action. 17:50:06:00 The real harm would be to the
17:50:08:06 State and the state's idea of 17:50:10:09 the sanctity of marriage.
17:50:20:03 >> The public has an important 17:50:21:24 interest in the same officials'
17:50:24:21 complying with the highest law 17:50:26:21 in the land, the United States
17:50:27:27 Constitution. 17:50:28:27 When law runs afoul of the
17:50:31:27 Constitution, you necessarily 17:50:37:00 ride in compliance with the
17:50:39:15 higher law. 17:50:40:06 That becomes the Fourth
17:50:41:00 Amendment. 17:50:42:03 >> A lot of this extends from
17:50:44:06 the DOMA ruling. 17:50:46:27 The judge said this definition
17:50:48:18 of marriage is illegal. 17:50:54:06 We have seen district courts and
17:50:56:15 even state courts saying, look, 17:50:58:21 the U.S. Supreme Court has
17:51:00:12 already stated that this 17:51:02:24 definition of marriage is
17:51:05:15 unconstitutional. 17:51:08:00 >> The Ninth Circuit had heard
17:51:10:24 two cases on Monday this week. 17:51:13:00 A Nevada case from a year and
a 17:51:17:12 half ago where a federal court
17:51:21:18 upheld their marriage ban, after 17:51:24:21 DOMA.
17:51:26:06 It looks like the ninth circuit 17:51:29:00 is going to throw that out, too.
17:51:31:21 The Supreme Court will rule. 17:51:36:21 It's believed they will take
17:51:39:12 those cases and we should know 17:51:41:06 by this time next year.
17:51:42:21 >> And despite the things you 17:51:45:24 say and -- in terms of what the
17:51:56:15 Supreme Court will do. 17:51:58:03 The federal government in
17:51:59:09 refusing to recognize marriages 17:52:01:15 have taken from the states their
17:52:03:15 ability to define marriage. 17:52:05:00 If you use that same logic,
17:52:08:15 giving Arizona the ability to 17:52:11:12 decide marriage.
17:52:13:12 >> I disagree you with you on 17:52:14:27 the Windsor case, it involved
a 17:52:18:06 gay couple from New York City
17:52:20:03 who were together for decades, 17:52:21:18 married in Canada.
17:52:23:12 One of the couple died and the 17:52:25:18 other was forced to pay a very
17:52:29:00 large inheritance tax. 17:52:31:12 If she had been married there
17:52:33:12 would have been a tax exemption. 17:52:36:18 The court ruled that's unfair
to 17:52:38:18 them to not recognize their
17:52:40:27 marriage. 17:52:41:09 And that's just --
17:52:42:21 >> But that still goes back to 17:52:44:27 the marriage being legal where
17:52:47:18 perfect and each state or 17:52:50:18 province around the country made
17:52:52:06 that decision. 17:52:53:03 >> You're right.
17:52:53:18 But here's what happened since 17:52:55:03 then.
17:52:55:24 You could interpret the ruling 17:52:57:06 in Windsor two ways.
17:52:59:06 You could say that the states 17:53:01:00 really do not have the ability
17:53:02:09 to prohibit same-sex marriage. 17:53:06:09 Or you could basically look and
17:53:08:21 say, look, it's up to the states 17:53:10:21 to decide.
17:53:11:15 Just for this particular case, 17:53:13:00 if it's a federal issue, then
17:53:14:12 you can't prohibit same-sex 17:53:17:06 marriage.
17:53:17:21 >> The case we have today is a 17:53:19:12 perfect example.
17:53:20:06 One of his arguments was, I'm 17:53:21:18 not going to be able to get my
17:53:24:18 benefits I would have been able 17:53:26:18 to get if I had been married to
17:53:29:15 a woman. 17:53:32:09 >> With in this mind, we don't
17:53:34:15 have too much time left but I 17:53:36:12 want to keep on this particular
17:53:38:15 topic. 17:53:39:06 Does this issue about, a factor
17:53:41:03 in the election? 17:53:42:06 >> Well, it came up during the
17:53:43:21 debate. 17:53:44:12 Doug Ducey said, I support
17:53:46:09 "traditional" marriage. 17:53:49:09 What's interesting, he was very
17:53:51:03 careful to say, given the heat 17:53:53:18 own the proposition, I will
17:53:57:09 treat everyone with dignity and 17:53:59:12 respect.
17:53:59:21 >> He clearly recognizes the 17:54:03:21 Cathy Harris line.
17:54:07:24 >> No, absolutely, they have to 17:54:09:21 defend this case, it's a voter
17:54:11:18 approved law. 17:54:14:09 Today Cathy put out that just
17:54:17:06 like all the other judges' 17:54:20:21 rulings are given by activist
17:54:22:24 judges. 17:54:23:12 >> What's interesting about that
17:54:24:27 statement, I think for the very 17:54:26:21 first time she's implicitly
17:54:29:12 acknowledging this is a losing 17:54:30:24 issue for the organization.
17:54:34:00 She said. 17:54:35:03 >> The fact that this is a
17:54:36:21 George H.W. Bush appointee and 17:54:40:09 many of the others are also
17:54:42:00 conservative Republicans. 17:54:43:15 >> She might have to watch her
17:54:45:15 mouth, language, she's part of 17:54:47:24 the -- when Ducey was asked
17:54:53:21 about that, how do you associate 17:54:56:24 years with the Cathys and
17:55:00:21 Jordans. 17:55:02:00 >> I didn't pick this coalition,
17:55:03:27 they sort of picked me. 17:55:05:18 He is kind of pivoting toward
17:55:07:15 the center for the general 17:55:08:21 election.
17:55:09:12 >> Okay, we have to pivot our 17:55:10:24 way out of here.
17:55:11:21 This is it for now. 17:55:12:21 I'm Ted Simons.
17:55:13:21 Thank you for joining us. 17:55:15:00 You have a great weekend.
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