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for joining us, sir. Bottom line: give us your executive summary on exactly what happened
three weeks ago with Occupy Wall Street, who they are, and the attempt by the Federal Reserve
inner cartel to co-opt it, in my view, and trick the people into calling for austerity,
to be paid to the very culprits of our predicament.
LAROUCHE: Well, of course, this is an old story. It went through several phases, and
what we're looking at now, is a result of what happened in 2007, when the bailout process
really started. It actually ran openly in 2008, but it was already running in 2007,
at the end of September of that year. So, we now are in a breakdown crisis, of the entire
international system: that is, the trans-Atlantic system. And there is no cure for this in the
ordinary way. This thing is, we're going dead in the water. And you can't say exactly what
date, because a lot of things can be done to adjust things in the short term. But essentially,
we've reached the limits. This thing is coming down.
Now, the solutions are fairly obvious. We
have to go to Glass-Steagall first. But I think we have to get Obama out first.
Now, I don't think that situation is impossible
now. Obama is extremely unpopular; even some of the press has been going after him on interviews,
in a way which treats him as dead meat, politically. And I think he's pretty close to that right
now.
JONES: Yes, sir, in fact you talked about this months ago. Now we have the Washington
Post, Chicago Tribune, every day calling for him to basically step down. What did you make
of him trying to embrace Occupy Wall Street yesterday, in that speech, and what did you
make of the fact that so many people are now basically deserting him, and then his statement
of, "Well, I haven't prosecuted bankers because what they did was legal." Well, yeah, this
very group of bankers changed the law, got rid of Glass-Steagall, to allow themselves
to commit crimes, but we've had the government say black people aren't humans before, and
it's the law. Hitler said that he was allowed to put people in death camps, because [garble]
but it's still illegal to pass a law to be able to do something that's illegal under
common law.
LAROUCHE: Yeah. The problem here is, this thing is really coming down now, and Obama
is down. You'll find that a lot of the press is down on him too, which means the signal
is out: This guy is politically dead meat. How it's going to work out is not exactly
certain. What is needed is the Glass-Steagall. Without this reform and this isn't
going to be enough. We're going to have to go to a credit system. That's the only way
that you can get enough jobs that is, productive jobs, not the so-called fake jobs
but enough jobs to start rebuilding the U.S. economy.
And we're going to have to do it quickly.
We have very little time to waste. We have options, but it's highly dangerous, and at
the last minute, virtually, when the building is about to go up in flames, people have now
changed their mind, and decided they're going to fight against Obama, and fight against
the kind of things he represents.
JONES: And so he's spinning that, and running with open arms towards people that have woken
up to him, in a desperate way to co-opt it. But I'm on the ground, sir. I'm not seeing
that working. So I want to get into to where you see this going for Obama, what the Anglo-American
establishment will do, versus some of your ideas of, instead of giving tens of trillions
to foreign bankers they hoard, this credit system to defibrillate the economic heart.
LAROUCHE: Well, that's a very simple thing
to do, from the standpoint of technicalities, and I think we have now a real surge inside
the U.S. population. You've got to look at the 80% of the population, of the voting population,
which has tended to vote against both Republicans and Democrats, who they suspect are being
sympathetic to what Obama represents. That's where it stands now.
And what's happened, you've seen now the press
itself, which has last come on the game, and begin to ask nasty questions, and make general
insults to the President, in the last appearance. So he is actually dead meat, and the only
thing that can keep him in the presidency still, would be a virtual coup, like some
kind of thing of that sort. He's finished now. The exact date he's finished is what's
uncertain. But the
JONES: We got you on a bit late, and I want to spend as much time with you as we can.
But, Mr. LaRouche, let me ask you this question from your deep understanding and connections
out there, in Wall Street, in D.C. Are the mainstream organs of establishment mouthpieces,
like Wall St. Journal, like Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, telling him to step down
is that so they get a new puppet to con people? Or is that members of the establishment realizing
the system coming down is probably going to destroy them as well, and is that desperate
floundering? Do the banksters think they're in control of things, or has it reached panic
level? Because I'm seeing real signs now of panic, and that's even more scary.
LAROUCHE: There is panic. But first of all,
there's qualified panic. There's an effort to get this guy out. Now we've had, up to
80% of the actually voting people have tended to vote against both Republicans and Democrats
who went with Obama. That was early in September. Now, we're getting an actual breakdown crisis.
They cannot go any further with this bailout. The bailout effort would blow everything out.
We have internationally all kinds of things that are going on. I say, right now we're
on the edge. There's a highly popular motivation out there for...
JONES: We're going to skip this break, guys.
Sorry, Lyndon, go ahead.
LAROUCHE: We're actually in a breakdown crisis, and the only thing that'll work we
have to understand what the positive measures are that will work. The first thing you've
got to do, you've got to get this President out of there, because with the cowardice among
the politicians, despite what some of them are saying these days, they don't have the
stamina to buck this guy really. And he has to be be bucked, absolutely. His whole program
has to go. Otherwise, you cannot save the United States.
Now, if you can get him under control, in
the process of being impeached, or something like that, you can control him, at least temporarily.
If you then enact Glass-Steagall again, the new version it's the same thing as
before, but it's the new version then you will solve the problem by bringing it
under control. But you have to realize, we have a huge mass of worthless paper, which
has been dumped on the United States, as other nations, in this bailout process for the past
several years. So we don't have much legroom to move. We need to get a real employment
program that is, a production program, not just...
JONES: Let's go back then. We bring back in
Glass-Steagall it doesn't let them create derivatives any more, which then destabilizes
and creates uncertainty in the entire financial universe. We write off the fraudulent debt
of these megabanks, and what? triage it into some other financial institution? How do you
do that?
LAROUCHE: No, there's only one thing you can do. You go with Glass-Steagall, yes. That'll
solve the problem in one sense. It will bring the thing under control. But you will have
the Wall Street crowd and the London crowd, and so forth, will take a bath beyond belief.
They're going to lose heavily.
But the problem is, with Glass-Steagall, we will do the right thing, but can we do enough
of the right thing? We've got to put people back to work rather fast I mean, real
production, fast. It will be a hard job. We're going to have to have more credit in the system.
So, we're going to have to create a credit system, of the type that the United States
did in the first Constitution, which is how we got out of the mess we were in at the end
of the war. We're going to have to do that. We're going to have to launch some large programs,
and high-gain programs, and these programs will actually allow us to get into a recovery
mode. We're going to have to...
JONES: Look at how they're getting rid of NASA. Building projects, bridges, NASA, maglev
what are some of the other examples? And people say this is socialist. I'm here debating different
programs. The point is, we've already given tens of trillions to foreign banks that goes
nowhere, paying off derivatives. The point is, they've already killed our free market.
There's got to be some way to put people back to work, instead of just going on welfare
rolls might as well give them as job, is what you're saying.
LAROUCHE: No, we won't even give them welfare
the way it's going now. That's what's happening now.
So what we have is a situation where the Federal
government must take responsibility for what it's responsible for. Private interests are
not compelled to serve the public interest they're compelled to try to do what they can
in their judgment, and in their own interest. But we need a large program, like what Roosevelt
did. We need it on a large scale. NAWAPA is one of the key drivers. We have to reform
our system, as a credit system. We have to build up a banking system, of the proper type,
now.
We've got to get high-technology jobs in there, and we've got to start bringing the population
back into the direction of high-quality production.
We also have an option, with what's going on with Russia and China, and some other countries
today, in the Pacific region. We have the market and ability to launch one of the biggest
programs of recovery that's ever been done. It's potentially available to us. It's going
to take some years to get the thing really successful, but we can act immediately to
stabilize the present situation, and reverse some of the evil trends that are killing people.
JONES: We're talking to Lyndon LaRouche right
now, and we'll give you the websites in a moment. And regardless of whether you like
his solutions or not; I like some of it. I just don't know if it's ever doable, and there's
always the danger of this. But we're already at the point of a collapse.
Lyndon, my issue here is, you talk about high
technology programs that have led the world, that made America great. Look at just Apple,
with some well-deployed, well-marketed trinket technology that was already out there
they were just good at marketing [gap] cash reserves and the U.S. government. There's
no doubt that pure research and true development would put this country at the forefront. Why
do the banksters wage war against industrial and high-tech economies? Why do they openly
say, Maurice Strong and others, they want a post-industrial world in the United States,
while transferring it to China? Why are they destroying their own military command base?
LAROUCHE: Well, they're doing it because that's
what they're like. Essentially, it's that... look, what happened was, you had, we were
about to go to war in Indo-China. The President, President Kennedy, opposed that. He opposed
it flat, with Douglas MacArthur on it. So, suddenly, Kennedy is killed. Now, what happened?
Not only did we get into a war, which ruined
us for about 10 years of war in the Indo-China area, and that ruined us permanently, because
Kennedy, who'd opposed that war, and who had a large industrial development program in
there, was killed. And the killing of Kennedy resulted in the cancellation of the NAWAPA
program. NAWAPA was on the boards.
Bobby Kennedy was going to go for it too. If we'd gone with NAWAPA at that time, we'd
have solved our problem, and maintained the dynamic that we were getting into in the beginning
of the 1960s.
JONES: Well, he was also moving to nationalize the Fed, and start issuing interest-free U.S.
money, at least to the government.
LAROUCHE: Well, that's different. That's actually a credit system. That's been done before in
war, and other kinds of emergencies. And it's correct to do it, as long as it's the right
program. But this is the situation.
Once Kennedy was killed, and then his brother Bobby too, this assassination ensured this
long war like this long pattern of long wars we've been going into ever since.
We've been bled to death by long wars, and the public and the soldiers...
JONES: So, you're saying that these finance
capitalists, parasites, crony monopoly men, it's a tropism. They can't help but destroy
everything it's what they do. They don't build things, they wreck things.
LAROUCHE: Well, you've got a political interest
behind it, not just the money people, but the money people happen to be working for
a kind of interest. They don't give a damn about the United States. They don't give a
damn about the people. They want to reduce the population size. The British, for example,
are insisting on reducing the world's population from about 7 billion people, down to less
than 1.