Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
STEVE BROWN: Yeah.
AUDIENCE: So how on earth did you narrow it down?
How did you pick what you wanted to focus on?
Because there's a finite amount of space to cram an
awful lot of stuff into.
STEVE BROWN: You mean the 60,000 stories of Burning Man?
And how do you find the right stories for 90 minutes?
So we were looking for, I'd say, a story arc that was very
similar across the board.
Which are people that, what they took from Burning Man was
the catalyst or inspiration to act on a dream, and set off on
a journey to do some big, ambitious projects that they'd
never done before.
It's one of the more common experiences of Burning Man.
And it's actually one of my experiences from Burning Man
with this film.
This is the first time I've ever produced a feature film.
And it was very much that similar kind of a journey.
Burning Man is a community that is sort of designed
intentionally to give people the freedom and the permission
to act on their dreams.
And so there are a lot of stories like that, start at
Burning Man.
So I was looking for, and our team was looking for, stories
where we could follow somebody who was acting on a dream.
Somebody like Katy, who didn't used to be an artist, but she
went to Burning Man and decided that that was what she
was going to be.
And we filmed her from conception to realization of
her first art project.
Otto Von Danger, very different side of Burning Man,
and kind of unexpected for people to think it's just a
rave or it's some sort of hippie thing.
But for him, this was the first time he did a big,
meaningful project.
They were just really trying to make a statement and make a
difference in the world.
And what he was actually trying to do was trying to
create a statement that was really uniting the
frustrations of both the Tea Party and the Occupy movement.
And so it was a big, ambitious project.
And Jon La Grace, not only was he kind of on the front line
of this growth of Burning Man becoming worldly, and people
with a lot of money showing up and kind of paying for a
catered experience of Burning Man, which was very
controversial.
He was from one of those camps, a producer of one of
those camps.
But this was the year when he was, when the whole camp was
really trying to give back and really was trying to do
something new, which was host Play)A(Skool, which was the
set for TEDxBlackRockCity.
Which is how I got connected to them in the first place,
because I was the co-organizer of that.
So we were looking for stories that were somebody acting on a
dream, what happens next, and kind of a cross-section of
different aspects of Burning Man-- theme camps and kind of
the roughneck side of Burning Man, and the art side of
Burning Man.
And then we got invited in to film more and more of the
founders and inside the organization.
And we realized their story was the same thing.
The had big dreams.
And those dreams were also getting very complicated as
they kind of collided with reality in the year that
Burning Man hit limits for the first time.
AUDIENCE: How did you ensure the consent of everyone being
filmed, especially for the rabbit popping out, where
people are riding on the ramp?
STEVE BROWN: So anyone we were interviewing, we asked for
permission.
General crowd scenes in public places, that's a little more
complicated.
But a crowd scene in a public place where lots of people are
being filmed, that's kind of fair game.
But anybody we interviewed, or really kind of went in close
and told their story, we asked for consent.
AUDIENCE: Hi.
Thanks for making the film.
What didn't make it into the film?
STEVE BROWN: What is that?
AUDIENCE: What didn't make it into the film?
What scene, what aspects?
STEVE BROWN: Oh, so much.
[LAUGHTER]
STEVE BROWN: Actually, my background
is in tech and software.
And from my standpoint, some of the most fascinating
stories of Burning Man are the creativity and the innovation
that happens when it's not about pleasing your venture
capitalists, or about money, or sort of the Silicon Valley.
But it's just pure play and innovation in this harsh
environment.
And you see that in art.
But you also see that in technology.
And I mean, there was a project just this last year
where people from Ideate were--
you take off your clothes.
Go into a full-body scanner.
And then they would make a 3D model of you.
And then they would attach a little tracking device to you.
And then their radio-controlled octocopter
would come and drop your clone off somewhere in the playa.
That was sort of cool, and fun, and
interesting, and playful.
But we just weren't there filming that one.
But some that we did film were more tech stories.
A couple years ago, you go to Burning Man.
And you turn on your iPhone.
And you would say, gosh, I didn't know
AT&T worked out here.
Well, it doesn't.
It was just some guys from the OpenBTS project who were the
open source mobile phone sort of operating system.
And they had a solar-powered antenna.
And they were playing a cell phone company out there, beta
testing really cool technology about how do we create mobile
technology for people who live on $1 a day.
For the liberation technologies for poor
countries, and their beta site is Burning Man.
And their next customers are in Somalia.
Or who knows where they are.
So there were things like that that were really interesting.
And they were just under the same kind of story-- people
inspired to do something creative, and original, and
ambitious in this environment.
And not doing it for money.
And not doing it for status.
And not doing it for fame.
But purely doing it as a creative collaboration.
And there's a lot of stuff like that.
Not all of it is simple enough and visual enough to work in a
film like this.
I mean, we're back to the last question.
There are 60,000 stories out there.
You need to find stories that are fairly simple, and fairly
visual, and can line up.
AUDIENCE: Obviously, you went through and sort of talked a
lot about people's stories, the struggles that
they had to get there.
I'm interested to know what your struggle was
in making the film.
Like what were your kind of highs and lows?
STEVE BROWN: So making a film, I discovered,
is a lot like a--
well, it's just another startup.
Which means you need to have some crazy idea.
You need to convince some really great people to join
and collaborate with you.
You need to raise the money.
You need to execute like crazy.
And then at some point, you've got to get distribution.
And it was kind of the same thing.
And every one of those steps is loaded with challenges just
like it is with a startup.
I think that the biggest challenge in making a film
like this-- which is a story of real people and real lives,
no actors, no script, but a working hypothesis for where
the story is going and what's going to happen next--
the biggest challenge is actually being there when the
story is unfolding.
And there were stories that we were following that kind of
went in a different direction or just didn't really go where
we thought it was going to go.
And other ones really kind of grew.
But if you're not there with the camera rolling, it's like
it didn't happen.
So the biggest challenge is actually being there when
things are happening.
And you saw so many things in here.
You saw that we were actually there in a lot of really
unique moments in the story, both of those artists who were
trying to manifest their dream and do something project, but
also of the Burning Man organization and the founders.
So all these moments when their dreams were colliding
with reality and getting very complicated, we were in there,
in those meetings.
I mean, actually, I wasn't in those meetings.
And my co-director, Jessie Deeter,
wasn't in those meetings.
But our camera and sound people were in the meetings.
And they were like, you can't come to this meeting.
This is a private meeting.
But we're going to let your cameras be in here.
It was a really strange thing.
So we were there at these moments when they were arguing
kind of fundamental questions of their principles.
They had this sort of collision of principles
between this openness that allowed people to truly be
free versus now, what do they do when it's sold out and too
many people want to go.
And it was really--
I mean, everybody around the world thought, whoa.
They didn't know what was going on.
But when you saw the footage inside the board room, you see
they're having really heartfelt debates about
principles and values.
And that was a big surprise.
And it was really amazing to witness that.
But that was very lucky that we were there with the cameras
rolling when all that was going down.
AUDIENCE: What was the funding?
How did you raise the funding?
And who provided the funding?
And what was the budget for this movie?
STEVE BROWN: Well, you saw the whole
last part of the credits.
And there are actually some people from the early days of
Google on that list.
I did most of the fundraising.
And I asked a lot of people, told people about the project.
And I explained the vision of what we're trying to do in the
story, and why I thought it was a story that was much more
relevant than just a Burning Man story.
It was a very universal story.
And some people backed it.
For the talk, I'm not going to put a number
on the actual budget.
But if you look at--
I mean, we were 13 months in production of filming.
And all those shoots had a director of photography and a
sound engineer.
Had a producer, associate producer there helping
organize it all.
And you have hundreds of hours of footage and then 100 more
hours of archival footage from the old days.
And then there was a lot of time spent with our amazing
editor, Andy Gersh, editing that down to the 90 minutes
that you saw.
And then there's an amazing soundtrack for the movie.
And even though most of the artists on the soundtrack have
been inspired by Burning Man, or have some connection to
Burning Man, and did some amazing original music for the
film, they also have labels, and managers, and agents.
So all that costs a lot of money.
So it was a pretty big, ambitious project for a
documentary.
AUDIENCE: What were you doing just before you started this?
And how did you decide to actually get
started on this project?
It was so big.
STEVE BROWN: So I've been involved in a number of
startups, usually software.
And kind of every time, it's been kind of this similar
drill of you have a vision which is to solve some problem
that's going to change the world.
And you raise money.
And you start to execute on that vision.
And you get more, and more, and more focused on a very
specific thing to make that work.
And I found it kind of starting to be more
constraining.
And I was looking for a creative canvas
that was more open.
And film is a very wide open and very
human creative canvas.
So I was really interested in getting involved with that.
And so when we sort of stumbled across a story that
looked really relevant and interesting,
things kind of unfolded.
You go to Burning Man.
And you say, gosh, I've always wanted to make a film.
And all of a sudden, you're surrounded by people that say,
how can I help?
And so that stuff starts to become real.
AUDIENCE: I'm wondering.
How did you recruit people to be the subjects of your film?
STEVE BROWN: So you sort of start with what you know.
But we were also seeking out a kind of a story which
resembled really kind of our own story with the project--
people that were acting on a dream, setting
off on some big project.
And we also had to go with where people were accessible.
There were probably some amazing projects where people
in Europe were building something to
bring to Burning Man.
And it was the same story.
But we weren't over there.
We were here.
So our subjects were a little closer to home--
the ones that we were able to film all the way through were
a little closer to home.
But we discovered Katy.
We were filming a number of people.
And actually, I remember I showed some of our footage,
some selects of some of the people we were starting to
develop character sketches of.
I showed it to my daughter.
And she said, Dad, this is a very important story about
creativity, and being free, and being able to be creative,
and following your passion.
That's a very important story for young people, too.
So it shouldn't just be a bunch of old people having a
midlife crisis.
[LAUGHTER]
STEVE BROWN: And then I went back.
And I looked at the people.
And I realized, you know what?
We need to keep looking.
And so we were looking.
And then we went to film Marco Cochrane, who is an artist,
amazing artist, who does these huge sculptures of Burning
Man-- "Bliss Dance" and "Truth is Beauty." And he's been out
doing that for 20 years.
And so that's really interesting.
But there wasn't a story unfolding.
Because it was just similar to what he's been
doing for a long time.
But right behind him, working, welding on one of the
sculptures, was Katy.
And so we went there interviewing
Marco, to talk to Marco.
And then we said, well, who's that?
Who's that on your team?
And it turned out she was right at the
beginning of that story.
So we were looking for that kind of story.
And we wanted to find a story where it was connected to the
great art of Burning Man.
And she was there.
Well, Otto Von Danger, this one's my son's fault.
So he said, Dad, this is not going to be a good movie
unless there's somebody that's a little bit crazy.
[LAUGHTER]
STEVE BROWN: Anyway, so we actually went up to the playa
on July 4, 2012.
And we actually thought we might be shooting
the end of the movie.
Because we thought Burning Man might not happen.
Or it might never be the same.
It might not come back together.
Because a lot of the big projects were not able to--
their crew couldn't get tickets.
And everyone was mad at Burning Man.
And so no one could raise money.
And so everything sort of felt like it was falling apart.
So we went up there for July 4.
Where it's kind of like the old days-- no organization, no
fence, no tickets.
And that's where I met Otto Von Danger.
And he had some crazy project he was doing out there where
they were exploding things, and blowing things up, and
shooting lots of guns.
And I asked my son.
He was with me.
And he says, well, how about Otto?
And he said, I think he'll do.
And he was a wonderful story.
He was a wonderful character.
And he really embodied a number of things, but just
this passion and commitment in this campus of Burning Man
that allows people to do huge, ambitious things that you
wouldn't expect them to be able to do.
Otto Von Danger is living on disability.
He's an injured Marine.
And he's having a hard time getting by.
And then at Burning Man, he's working on a massive,
super-challenging, super roller coaster,
big, ambitious project.
And to me, that kind of story where--
I mean, Katy was a nanny, and Otto is a disabled veteran,
and Jon La Grace, somebody who lost everything, they're not
like the Google founders.
They're not like the famous people who are
out at Burning Man.
They're very ordinary people with actually a lot stacked
against them.
But you kind of flip the values.
And in this environment, they shine.
And they rise.
And they're the heroes.
And I thought those were the kind of people that, one, we
were looking for.
But two, they were also more accessible.
They were open to us following them around for a year.
AUDIENCE: Thanks.
I was sort of struck by the fact that everybody went
through this intense process of very systematically
building and working in sort of structured--
even though it was a little crazy--
process.
And then they got to have their moment of release at
Burning Man where their project all came to an end,
and they saw the results.
You were still in the middle of your process at that point.
Can you talk about that a little bit and how your
experience was?
STEVE BROWN: Yeah.
We're still in the middle the process.
Because we're just now launching the film in theaters
and on demand just this weekend.
So, yeah, but kind of like the people in the film, it is sort
of a never-ending process.
The interesting thing--
so two kinds of projects were in the film.
There were the ones that burned down.
And that creates a space to do something totally new.
And then there are other ones where, like Katy, is heart.
She didn't burn that down.
It comes back down the hill.
It's in a warehouse.
She's trying to figure out what to do with it.
Should I do another Kickstarter to add some more
bells and whistles to it and bring it back to Burning Man?
Or what should I do with this thing?
And I think that one of things that is unique about Burning
Man as an entire city but also a lot of the art projects is
that kind of creative destruction.
It goes back to the dust so people can start over.
And this film is almost to the point where
it really is launched.
And then it's wide open space.
And then I--
everybody in film is like this.
Then you can kind of take a breath and say, what's next?
It's what's unique about film is that you have this intense
effort on a project.
And it has an end.
A company goes on.
Well, maybe it has an end when Google buys it.
But maybe it goes on indefinitely.
But films, like a lot of these art projects,
they have an end.
And then that creates a space for something new.
That's what I like about film.
AUDIENCE: I thought there was an interesting kind of a
conflict of ideas between Larry Harvey and John Law.
And the presentation of Law towards the end of the
movie, where he--
you're showing his image and talking about the org of
turning into a nonprofit.
And I kind of wonder if he gave you any kind of a take on
what he thinks about that or how that affects him.
STEVE BROWN: I did sit with John Law.
Sat next to John Law and watched the film with him when
we played in Sacramento.
And I said, John, I'm going to sit next to you in case you
need to kick me.
Because I didn't know before he saw the film what he'd
think of it.
But I mean, he was a really interesting, important
character in the film.
Because there you saw this original rift, this original
collision of values.
I mean, the original dream was one about this
sort of pure freedom.
And then at some point, it got out of control.
People actually got killed up there in 1996.
And it really was out of control.
So they had to decide.
This sort of, almost this Utopian anarchist ideal of
freedom wasn't going to work anymore.
So what are they going to do?
Is it going to just go away?
Or are they going to reinvent it?
And John Law didn't want the reinvention.
It was form an LLC.
Form a company.
Sell tickets.
Put up a fence.
Create a container for it.
Buy insurance.
He didn't want to be part of that.
He wanted to stick to the original dream and the
original value.
So there was a big parting of ways.
And then when we were filming this in 2011, 2012, we were
sort of hitting the next big inflection point where again,
it was a collision of values.
I mean, that was the core of what was happening.
They have values that were really interesting.
And that they'd sort of gone from pure self-expression and
freedom to a combination of values of self-expression and
values of community.
And can we create a community that allows people to truly be
themselves?
And that idea was working, amazingly, for many, many
years until they hit limits, until there wasn't
enough to go around.
And then the question is who gets to decide who gets to be
part of this.
If somebody stands there as the judge, decides who's
worthy of being part of it, then the whole idea that you
truly have that freedom kind of gets eroded.
Because now, I'm trying to prove myself.
I'm trying to prove I'm good enough.
Or at least I have that feeling.
Or there's even a hint of that feeling.
And so that's why they did the lottery.
Because they didn't want to be the judge.
And then that was a catastrophe because it
destroyed community.
So all along it had been this really
interesting debate of values.
Sort of like the Western culture requirement in
freshman year at Stanford where philosophers from kind
of thousands of years ago all the way through the present
are sort of having these fundamental arguments about
freedom versus order.
And how do we create a society that allows people to be free.
But you need some structure.
You need some governance.
Otherwise, freedom goes away.
These kind of debates were all playing out real time.
So the John Law rift was a very early one about order
versus freedom.
And then they reinvented themselves.
And then they had this new collision.
But the resolution of the new collision of values seemed to
be, when we were filming it, that may be there would be a
new transformation.
And what really ticked off John Law was sort of the
becoming this company.
Maybe that was going to go away.
Maybe there was going to be some new form.
And maybe that rift would possibly even heal.
There was sort of hope.
I heard that a number of times in people we talked to.
There was a hope that that rift might somehow heal in
whatever came next.
And we don't know whether or not that's going to happen or
where that's going to end.
But we have seen that this idea of a community of people
that really allow each other to be themselves in the
context of collaborating on art, that that's happening a
lot of places, not just at Burning Man.
We showed this in Washington, DC.
And I had people in the audience say, I've been to
three burns, but I've never been to the playa.
So I mean, it's sort of happening on the east coast.
Who would have thought that that would be happening in
Washington, DC?
And then you saw at the end where it's
happening around the world.
So there's an idea that maybe some of those original values
that John Law was involved with, maybe those are coming
back in sort of the new form of Burning Man, which is not
sort of contained to the playa.
So at the end, we were kind of raising that question.
But the verdict is not in yet.
That story is just beginning.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Thank you so much for coming.
This was excellent.
Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]