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Kody: PREVIOUSLY ON "SISTER WIVES"...
DO YOU WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER BABY WITH ME, OR DO YOU NOT?
HE BASICALLY SAID NO.
HE SAID NO?
YEAH.
I THINK ABOUT KODY AND I BECOMING EMPTY NESTERS.
BUT IT'S ME BECOMING AN EMPTY NESTER
AND KODY AND CHRISTINE AND ROBYN AND JANELLE
RAISING A BUNCH OF MORE KIDS.
I GOT A CALL FROM WESTMINSTER, AND I GOT ACCEPTED.
Kody: IF SHE GETS ENOUGH SCHOLARSHIPS,
SHE CAN GO TO WESTMINSTER.
IF SHE DOESN'T GET ENOUGH SCHOLARSHIPS,
SHE'S GOT TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
ASPYN, LOGAN, AND I ARE GOING TO GO HELP
POLYGAMISTS FLEEING ABUSIVE SITUATIONS.
I REALLY JUST DON'T LIKE THAT ANYBODY'S INVOLVED IN TRYING TO STILL LIVE POLYGAMY.
IF YOU'RE GONNA TRY AND CONVINCE ME POLYGAMY'S GOOD --
NO.
MAYBE IN THESE OTHER CULTURES, IT IS ALWAYS ABUSE.
AND NEXT...
OUR FAMILY IS PARTICIPATING IN A PANEL DISCUSSION ABOUT POLYGAMY.
ONE OF THE PANELISTS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF MY MOM'S SISTERS.
SHE'S TOTALLY AGAINST POLYGAMY,
AND SHE'S NOT EVEN SAYING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE.
AND I'M GIVING HER THE PLATFORM THAT SHE NEEDS
TO TALK ABOUT WHY SHE HATES MY FAMILY SO BAD.
I JUST WANT TO GO KIDNAP HER
AND JUST SAY, "HEY, HONEY, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THIS.
YOU JUST BELIEVE THAT, LIKE WE ALL WERE TOLD WE HAD TO DO IT."
THEIR OPINION CANNOT AFFECT ME.
MY STOMACH'S IN KNOTS.
I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS TODAY.
FIGHTING AGAINST IT COMPLETELY.
THEY SAY YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST PIG, KODY.
I COULD AGREE WITH THEM.
THE LOUDEST NOISE COMING FROM OUR CULTURE
ARE THOSE WHO HAVE LEFT IT AND ARE ANTAGONISTIC TOWARD IT.
Robyn: I'M WORRIED THAT IT'S JUST GONNA BE ANOTHER AMBUSH.
WE GET AMBUSHED ALL THE TIME WITH ANTI-POLYGAMISTS.
Meri: I BELIEVE IN LIVING THIS LIFESTYLE.
IT JUST MAKES EACH OF US BETTER.
Janelle: I THINK WE HAVE SOMETHING REALLY AWESOME.
I WOULDN'T WANT ANYTHING ELSE.
Christine: I LIKE SISTER WIVES.
I WANTED THE FAMILY. I DIDN'T JUST WANT THE MAN.
Robyn: SEEMS LIKE DESTINY,
LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE ALL BEEN TOGETHER FROM DAY ONE.
Kody: LOVE SHOULD BE MULTIPLIED, NOT DIVIDED.
-- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com
CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS
WHEN I WAS ABOUT 14, MY MOTHER TOLD ME
THAT SHE BELIEVED IN THE PRINCIPLE OF PLURAL MARRIAGE.
MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS SAY
THAT I'M ENTITLED TO CHOOSE MY HUSBAND,
WHETHER HE'S MARRIED OR NOT.
THAT'S OKAY.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOOD POLYGAMY.
IT IS INHERENTLY HARMFUL.
THIS ABUSE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
IS NOT BECAUSE OF POLYGAMY
BECAUSE IT IS NOT ONLY IN POLYGAMY.
IN GENERAL, PEOPLE COULD STEREOTYPE THAT MARRIAGE IS BAD.
YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU WOULD LEAVE IF YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.
DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS.
I'M ASKING.
DO NOT MAKE ME A VICTIM, SWEETIE.
I WAS TALKING ABOUT A DIFFERENT MOM AND A DIFFERENT WIFE.
YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT. YOU SAID SISTER WIVES HATE EACH OTHER.
Kristyn: PARTNERSHIPS ARE VERY DIFFERENT THAN PLURAL MARRIAGE.
TWO PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER,
NOT HAVING A WHOLE BUNCH OF CHILDREN,
NOT ON WELFARE, NOT ON FOOD STAMPS.
THAT'S ANOTHER STEREOTYPE.
STEREOTYPE.
HANG ON. JUST A MINUTE.
I THINK THAT I HAVE THE RIGHT
TO SAY MY FEELINGS ABOUT POLYGAMY
AS MUCH AS YOU GET TO SAY THEM.
IT'S PATENTLY UNFAIR AND UNJUST, IN FACT,
TO SAY THAT POLYGAMY IS EVIL
BECAUSE EVILS HAPPENED TO YOU IN POLYGAMY.
Christine: ALL RIGHT, LET'S START WITH HOMEWORK, GUYS.
DONE. MATH GAMES.
AAH!
THIS WEEK, OUR FAMILY IS PARTICIPATING
IN A PANEL DISCUSSION ABOUT POLYGAMY.
IT LOOKS AS THOUGH IT COULD TURN OUT TO ESSENTIALLY BE A DEBATE
BETWEEN OUR FAMILY AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE
WHO HAVE HAD LESS THAN FAVORABLE EXPERIENCES IN PLURAL MARRIAGE.
BYE, TRUELY. I LOVE YOU SO MUCH.
HAVE FUN AT ROBYN'S HOUSE.
YOU'RE NERVOUS.
I AM. HOLY COW. I AM [BLEEP] MY PANTS.
YOU'RE RUBBING YOUR HANDS, AND IT'S SO WEIRD TO SEE.
I THINK I'M NERVOUS 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW...
IT'S VERY PERSONAL.
ASPYN, WILL YOU CALL ROBYN
AND JUST LET HER KNOW THAT TRUELY'S AT HER DOOR?
SHE WANTS TO KNOW IF SHE CAN COME PLAY.
Christine: THERE'S ACTUALLY FOUR PANELISTS ON THE OPPOSING SIDE,
AND THEN THERE'S ONE OF US.
THERE'S FIVE OF US.
WELL, WE'RE REPRESENTING ONE, YOU KNOW?
ONE STORY.
ONE STORY.
IT JUST SEEMS LIKE...
WHY DO YOU WANT TO GO?
JUST BECAUSE. I DON'T KNOW.
THAT'S NOT A VERY GOOD ANSWER.
WELL, I'M GOING TO. I JUST WANT TO SEE IT, I GUESS.
I TOLD ASPYN ABOUT THE PANEL DISCUSSION,
AND SHE REALLY WANTED TO GO.
SHE'S LIKE, "I NEED TO HEAR ALL THINGS.
"I NEED TO HEAR ALL OF THE TRUTH IN ORDER FOR ME
TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHAT I WANT TO DO."
THERE'S NO ULTERIOR MOTIVE?
NO, I JUST WANT TO SEE YOU GUYS SPEAK.
THERE'S NOT REALLY ANYTHING...
I WANT TO GO TO THE U.N.L.V. PANEL
JUST TO BASICALLY BE THERE FOR MY MOM
'CAUSE SHE'S REALLY NERVOUS ABOUT THIS,
AND I JUST THINK THAT IT WOULD BE NICE
JUST TO HAVE A FAMILIAR FACE IN THE AUDIENCE.
AND PLUS, I WANT TO HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON.
I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS DEBATE.
FIGHTING AGAINST IT COMPLETELY.
I HAVE NO INTEREST IN GOING...
AND TALKING ABOUT MY FAMILY LIVING IN PLURAL MARRIAGE
IN AN ANTAGONISTIC ENVIRONMENT,
AND I THINK IT'S GONNA BE ANTAGONISTIC.
Janelle: IT'S SO MUCH PERSONAL EXPERIENCE VERSUS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,
AND I'M WORRIED THAT OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
WILL BE INVALIDATED...
BY THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
BECAUSE OF ALL THE STEREOTYPES THAT ARE OUT THERE.
I FEEL LIKE WE'RE GOING IN AGAINST A STACKED DECK.
I KNOW YOU'RE WORRIED, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.
ONE OF THE PANELISTS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF MY MOM'S SISTERS,
KRISTYN DECKER,
AND SHE'S THERE TO TALK
ABOUT HOW SHE HAD THIS TERRIBLE EXPERIENCE
LIVING PLURAL MARRIAGE AND HOW SHE IS COMPLETELY AGAINST IT.
I KNOW YOU'RE MAD AT YOUR AUNT,
BUT WHY ARE YOU MAD AT HER SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THIS?
I THINK YOU JUST WANT TO PICK A FIGHT, MOM.
SHE'S TOTALLY AGAINST POLYGAMY,
AND SHE'S NOT EVEN SAYING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE.
SHE REALLY IS JUST SAYING NO ONE SHOULD LIVE IT.
WHAT AM I GONNA DO WHEN I SEE HER?
I'M SCARED...
'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M SUPPOSED TO FEEL.
I DON'T KNOW.
DO YOU LOVE HER 'CAUSE SHE'S IN YOUR FAMILY,
OR DO YOU DISLIKE HER 'CAUSE SHE'S ANTI-POLYGAMIST?
TOUGH PLACE TO BE IN, YEAH.
AND I'M GIVING HER ALL THE PLATFORM THAT SHE NEEDS
TO TALK ABOUT WHY SHE HATES MY FAMILY SO BAD.
HEY. WELCOME. COME ON IN.
IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
THERE'S ACTUALLY FOUR PANELISTS ON THE OPPOSING SIDE --
WILLIE STEED, WHO'S FROM FLDS,
KOLLENE, WHO WE MET BEFORE -- SHE'S FROM THE KINGSTONS --
MY AUNT KRISTYN,
AND THEN CHRISTINE MARIE,
AND THEY'VE ALL BEEN IN POLYGAMIST RELATIONSHIPS BEFORE.
DO YOU WANT ME TO HELP?
YEAH.
I FIRST MET KOLLENE WHEN LOGAN, MADDIE, AND I
WENT TO UTAH TO HELP OUT A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION
THAT HELPS POLYGAMISTS,
WHETHER THEY'RE IN POLYGAMY OR THEY WANT TO GET OUT.
AND ALL THIS YUMMY STUFF.
Kollene: I'M GOING TO THIS PANEL DISCUSSION
BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO SIDES OF POLYGAMY, GOOD AND BAD,
AND I THINK THE BAD STORIES AREN'T BEING TOLD ENOUGH.
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE PUBLIC SEE
THAT IT DOESN'T JUST LOOK LIKE THE BROWN FAMILY,
THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF HEARTACHES
AND A LOT OF HARDSHIPS.
I WANT TO HEAR YOUR STORIES ABOUT YOUR LIVES.
I'M SO CURIOUS ABOUT EVERYTHING.
Willie: I WANT TO SHARE MY STORY WITH THE WORLD
'CAUSE I KNOW THAT NOT EVERY POLYGAMIST EXPERIENCE
IS JUST A WONDERFUL ROSEBUSH OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A MEADOW, SO...
AND THAT'S KIND OF HOW THE BROWNS SEEM TO PAINT POLYGAMY.
ARE YOU TWO AS NERVOUS AS I AM? [ LAUGHS ]
ABOUT DOING THIS THING ON THURSDAY?
I'M KRISTYN DECKER, AND I GREW UP AS A --
I WAS BORN INTO POLYGAMY.
MY FATHER HAD 13 WIVES.
MY MOTHER WAS THE FIRST OF 13,
AND SHE HAD 8 CHILDREN OUT OF MY DAD'S 23 BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN.
AND THEN I WAS TOLD THAT I SHOULD LIVE IT,
AND I BELIEVED IT, SO I DID.
I WAS MARRIED AT 17, AND WE HADN'T BEEN MARRIED VERY LONG
BEFORE HE WAS ALREADY FLIRTING WITH OTHER WOMEN,
WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OKAY
BECAUSE THAT'S HOW SOMEBODY'S GONNA GET ANOTHER WIFE.
BY THE TIME I -- WE HAD ABOUT A 33-YEAR MARRIAGE
WHEN I SAID, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I'M DONE.
"I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE. IT'S NOT OKAY.
AND I CAN'T LIVE LIKE THIS."
HOW LONG WAS YOU...?
50 -- THE YEAR I TURNED 50 IS THE YEAR I LEFT.
WOW.
SO WHEN I SEE YOUNGER PEOPLE GOING SOONER,
YES, YES, YES! [ LAUGHS ]
Kollene: MY NAME'S KOLLENE.
I GREW UP IN THE KINGSTON POLYGAMIST COMMUNITY,
AND I AM...
MY MOM HAD A VERY LARGE FAMILY -- 12 KIDS --
AND SHE'S THE SEVENTH OF 14 WIVES.
AND I LEFT ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO.
LIKE, I WANT TO SAY WHAT I WANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW?
I DON'T WANT TO BE, LIKE, INTERRUPTED BY HIS BELIEFS
OR THEIR BELIEFS OR WHATEVER.
I MET THE BROWNS A WHILE AGO.
I GOT TO KNOW THEM PRETTY WELL.
I REALLY --
IT'S A LOT MORE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I GREW UP WITH.
IT'S A LOT DIFFERENT.
I WAS GONNA TELL YOU THAT I MET KODY.
I WAS AT CHRISTINE'S HOUSE, AND THEY WERE --
I THINK THAT THEY HAD JUST MET EACH OTHER,
BECAUSE SHE WAS, LIKE, ALL SPARKLY EYES
AND GOOEY EYES ABOUT SEEING HIM,
AND AT THAT TIME,
I BELIEVED IN POLYGAMY WHOLEHEARTEDLY,
AND I WAS LIKE, "OH, THEY'RE SO CUTE.
THEY'RE SUCH A CUTE COUPLE."
WHEN I THINK ABOUT CHRISTINE AND THE FAMILY RIGHT NOW,
I JUST WANT TO GO KIDNAP HER AND JUST SAY,
"HEY, HONEY, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THIS.
YOU JUST BELIEVE IT, LIKE WE ALL WERE TOLD WE HAD TO DO IT."
OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS,
I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH POLYGAMIST COMMUNITIES
IN NORTH AMERICA.
IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE YOU'VE GOT, UH...
YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING AT STAKE HERE.
I THINK RELATIONSHIPS ARE COMPLEX.
PLURAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE MORE COMPLEX.
Christine: TODAY ALL THE ADULTS ARE GONNA GO TO U.N.L.V.
WE'RE GONNA MEET A PROFESSOR
WHO'S ARRANGED TO HAVE A PANEL DISCUSSION
BETWEEN OUR FAMILY
AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEFT POLYGAMIST CULTURE.
HIS NAME IS PROFESSOR JANKOWIAK,
AND HE IS ACTUALLY GONNA BE THE MODERATOR FOR OUR PANEL.
[ DOORBELL RINGS ]
Janelle: CHRISTINE?
[ TRUELY FUSSING ]
YOU'RE NOT GONNA COME. HEY.
HONEY, YOU CAN'T COME THIS TIME. I LOVE YOU.
READY TO GO?
YEAH.
WE'RE LATE.
I KNOW.
I'M WORRIED BECAUSE WE'RE NOT OUT THERE
TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT POLYGAMY IS FOR THEM.
OR THAT THE MASSES SHOULD BE LIVING POLYGAMY.
Robyn: WE, AS A FAMILY, DECIDED TO GO PUBLIC,
AND WE ARE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT OUR LIVES.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PLURAL FAMILIES THAT WILL.
THERE'S A STIGMA, AND SO THE MOTIVATION,
NO MATTER HOW FUNCTIONAL YOUR FAMILY IS,
ISN'T STRONG ENOUGH TO GET YOU TO GO PUBLIC
WHEN THERE'S SO MANY RISKS TO BEING PUBLIC.
Kristyn: THIS MORNING, I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER,
KNOWING, OR FEELING, THAT WE'RE RIGHT IN THIS CAUSE,
TO SAY, "THIS ISN'T OKAY. THIS WAY OF LIFE IS REALLY HARMFUL."
AND MORE NEEDS TO BE HEARD ABOUT THAT.
THERE'S COFFEE, TOO.
OH, SWEET.
WE'RE GOING TO LAS VEGAS.
I'M FEELING A LITTLE NERVOUS,
EXCITED.
I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T REALLY QUITE KNOW WHAT TO THINK.
I DO FEEL A SENSE OF AWARENESS TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW
ABOUT POLYGAMY AND WHAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES
BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF AN UNKNOWN WORLD.
THE MORE STORIES THAT ARE OUT,
THE MORE KNOWLEDGE YOU CAN GET FROM EACH STORY.
MY NAME IS WILLIE.
I WAS RAISED IN THE FLDS COMMUNITY
IN SOUTHERN UTAH.
AND MOST PEOPLE KNOW IT AS THE WARREN JEFFS RELIGION.
AND I COME FROM A FAMILY OF 42 CHILDREN.
MY MOM WAS THE THIRD MOM.
SHE HAD 14 CHILDREN OF HER OWN.
AND MY EXPERIENCE OF POLYGAMY
WAS AN EXTREMELY DIFFICULT ONE AS A CHILD BEING RAISED IN THAT.
IN THE END, A YEAR AGO,
I LEFT WITH ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM THERE
BESIDES MY FAMILY THAT I CAME OUT WITH --
MY MOM AND SIX -- HER SIX DAUGHTERS.
I'M NOT REALLY NERVOUS TO SEE CHRISTINE.
IN FACT, I JUST CAN'T WAIT TO GIVE HER A HUG.
I ALWAYS ADORED HER.
I KNOW THAT WE'RE ON OPPOSITE DEALINGS ABOUT THIS,
AND THAT WILL BE A CHALLENGE TO DO.
BUT I STILL LOVE THEM, NO MATTER WHAT.
YOU READY, GUYS? WE'RE ON THE WAY.
OKAY.
Jankowiak: OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS,
I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH POLYGAMIST COMMUNITIES
IN NORTH AMERICA.
I NEVER GOT ACCESS TO WARREN JEFFS' COMMUNITY,
BUT I GOT ACCESS TO THE RIVAL COMMUNITY IN CENTENNIAL PARK.
I'M REALLY GLAD TO HEAR YOUR BACKGROUND ON THIS, PROFESSOR,
BECAUSE I'VE KIND OF BEEN WONDERING WHY IT WAS
THAT YOU WANTED US TO COME IN AND HAVE THIS PANEL DISCUSSION.
IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE YOU'VE GOT, UH...
YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING AT STAKE HERE.
CURIOSITY, REALLY. REALLY, JUST CURIOSITY.
EVERYONE I TALK TO -- MEN AND WOMEN --
READILY ADMITTED THAT A POLYGAMIST FAMILY'S VITALITY
DEPENDED ON THE HUSBAND.
AND I FOUND THAT MANY, MANY MEN WERE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT.
I THINK RELATIONSHIPS ARE COMPLEX.
PLURAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE MORE COMPLEX.
I REALLY WANTED TO SEE WHAT WERE THE ISSUES,
HOW WERE THEY RESOLVED,
WHY WERE SOME FAMILIES MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN OTHER FAMILIES.
Janelle: IT WAS VERY WEIRD
TO HEAR MYSELF ANALYZED AS A CULTURAL GROUP.
[ Chuckling ] IT WAS LIKE, "SO I'M A SPECIMEN?"
HE WAS A GREAT GUY, EASY TO ENGAGE.
Robyn: VERY RESPECTFUL.
DOWN TO EARTH,
AND VERY RESPECTFUL.
FOR US, I GUESS SOME OF OUR BIGGEST CONCERNS
ABOUT THE PANEL DISCUSSION IS THERE'S A LOT OF CRITICISM.
THE LOUDEST NOISE COMING FROM OUR CULTURE
ARE THOSE WHO HAVE LEFT IT AND ARE ANTAGONISTIC TOWARD IT.
Jankowiak: YOU'RE NOT GONNA CONVINCE THE PEOPLE
WHO'VE MADE UP THEIR MIND,
BUT WHAT YOU CAN CONVINCE IS THE NEUTRAL PUBLIC.
THE TOPIC OF POLYGAMY IS INTRINSICALLY INTERESTING
BECAUSE IT REPRESENTS AN ALTERNATIVE TO MONOGAMY,
WHICH IS REALLY THE CENTRAL NOTION OF AMERICAN CULTURE,
AND PEOPLE ARE ALL CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT WORKS.
WE KNOW NOT ALL MONOGAMIST MARRIAGES WORK.
SO IS POLYGAMY A POSSIBLE, VIABLE ALTERNATIVE?
Christine: PROFESSOR, AS FAR AS TIME-WISE GOES,
I KNOW THAT THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE PANEL
WERE COMING IN.
NOW, YOU WEREN'T LOOKING AT TALKING WITH ALL OF US
AT THE SAME TIME?
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.
OKAY, WHAT TIME -- WHEN ARE THEY COMING IN?
OH, COMING IN PROBABLY IN 30 MINUTES.
Christine: THE LAST TIME I SAW AUNT KRISTYN
WAS PROBABLY ABOUT EIGHT YEARS AGO.
AND IT WAS OKAY. IT WAS FINE.
THE REASON WHY I REALLY HAVE NO INTEREST IN DOING THIS PANEL --
JUST REALLY HONESTLY --
KRISTYN DECKER BEING MY AUNT IS REALLY DIFFICULT,
AND DOING A PANEL WITH HER IS NOT SAFE,
AND I DON'T LIKE -- I'M NOT THRILLED ABOUT THIS.
SURE, I'M NOT BEING COMPASSIONATE,
I'M NOT BEING KIND. FINE.
BUT I'M JUST BARELY GOING PUBLIC.
I DON'T KNOW. I JUST...
[ SIGHS ]
I JUST FEEL LIKE SHE'S ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE.
HERE I AM, BEING OPEN, AND IT IS HARD.
IT WAS NOT AN EASY DECISION TO BECOME OPEN.
AND THEN SHE COMES OUT, AND SHE'S FIGHTING ME.
IT'S LIKE, I DON'T NEED THAT.
I GET ENOUGH PEOPLE OPPOSED TO WHAT I'M DOING.
TO HAVE IT COME FROM FAMILY IS JUST HURTFUL.
THANK YOU, PROFESSOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
NO, NO, THANK YOU. BYE NOW.
WE APPRECIATE IT.
SURE.
Robyn: I'M WORRIED THAT IT'S JUST GONNA BE ANOTHER AMBUSH.
WE GET AMBUSHED ALL THE TIME WITH ANTI-POLYGAMISTS,
AND THEY'RE FAMILY AND THEY'RE FRIENDS
AND THEY'RE PEOPLE THAT MAYBE WE USED TO KNOW.
IT ACTUALLY MAKES ME ANGRY
AT THE FAMILIES THAT ARE DOING WELL FOR NOT SPEAKING UP,
AND IT MAKES ME ANGRY
AT THESE ANTI-POLYGAMISTS FOR BEING SO CLOSE-MINDED.
THEY'RE ASKING US TO ACCEPT THEIR STORY,
BUT THEY'RE NOT ACCEPTING OURS.
HI. I'M BILL JANKOWIAK. HI. NICE TO MEET YOU.
IF CHRISTINE SAID THAT SHE WANTED JUST TO BE LEFT ALONE,
THEN I WOULD HAVE TO QUESTION THAT
BECAUSE I WOULD SAY, "IT ISN'T ABOUT YOU."
WHAT I WOULD WANT YOU TO DO, CHRISTINE, IS SAY TO US,
TO ME, SAY, "YOU KNOW WHAT?
"I REALIZE OUR FAMILY IS UNIQUE, OUR FAMILY IS GREAT,
"OUR FAMILY IS WONDERFUL,
"AND I REALIZE WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME NOW,
"THE MORE I HEAR, THE MORE I LEARN
THAT POLYGAMY IN GENERAL IS DYSFUNCTIONAL."
SHE'S NOT ONLY COMPLETELY AGAINST ME
AND MY FAMILY STRUCTURE
AND MY RELIGION AND MY LIFESTYLE,
SHE'S COMPLETELY VOCAL ABOUT IT,
TRYING TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT IT'S INHERENTLY WRONG OR ABUSIVE.
SO NO, I REALLY DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER.
I FEEL BETRAYED.
THEIR OPINION CANNOT AFFECT ME.
MY STOMACH'S IN KNOTS.
I WANT TO TELL MY STORY, EVEN IF IT CAUSES ME HEARTACHE.
THEY SAY YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST PIG, KODY.
Christine: I'M NERVOUS-MAKING, A LITTLE BIT.
DON'T BE.
REALLY?
YEAH.
OKAY.
I'LL TRY NOT TO OVERTHINK THINGS.
Meri: I AM...FINE.
I'M NOT NERVOUS.
I MEAN, IT'S OKAY THAT NOT EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD
BELIEVES IN PLURAL MARRIAGE,
AND I'M NOT GONNA GO OUT AND OPPOSE WHAT THEY DO.
SO I JUST THINK IT'S KIND OF SILLY
THAT EVERYBODY'S KIND OF RILED UP ABOUT THIS ONE.
MY STOMACH'S IN KNOTS.
IT'S NEVER EASY TO SIT AND DEFEND.
I DON'T KNOW. IT'S WEIRD.
DEFEND YOUR HAPPINESS? I DON'T KNOW.
IT'S NERVE-WRACKING.
ALMOST LOOKS LIKE THE COLLAR WANTS TO GO OVER THE TOP.
I NEED SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
I'M NOT THE FASHION PERSON. YOU NEED TO GO ASK ROBYN.
DON'T LOOK AT MY FACE. LOOK AT THE CLOTHES.
YOU'RE TOO CUTE.
OH, OKAY.
I'VE MADE MY CHOICES,
MY FAMILY'S MADE THEIR CHOICES, MY CHILDREN ARE HAPPY.
WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING. THEIR OPINION CANNOT AFFECT ME.
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ME HAPPY IF THEY WANT TO SIT HERE AND SAY,
"HEY, YOU'RE A DOPE."
OKAY, FINE, I'M A DOPE.
I THINK WE GET THE HAIR STUFF.
DO I BELIEVE THAT HE'S NOT NERVOUS?
Man: YEAH.
I BELIEVE HE'S REALLY NOT THAT NERVOUS.
HE'S ALWAYS PRETTY CONFIDENT GOING INTO THESE THINGS,
AND HE'S THE ONE WHO BEARS THE MOST HEAT, USUALLY.
WHY?
BECAUSE USUALLY THEY'RE QUICK TO BLAME THE MAN.
THEY THINK SOMEHOW HE'S MANIPULATED ME
OR MADE ME MAKE THIS CHOICE, WHICH IS SO BALONEY.
SO HE GETS MOST OF THE HEAT IN THESE CRITICISM SITUATIONS.
SO I THINK HE'S GOOD.
I'M NOT, BUT I THINK HE IS.
COME ON.
HI.
COME ON IN.
HEY, THERE.
GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
HEY.
YOU GUYS NERVOUS?
HI, SWEETHEART.
YES.
YEAH?
YEAH, I THINK EVERYBODY'S GOT TO BE NERVOUS.
MY NAME IS CHRISTINE MARIE.
I CAME FROM THE MAINSTREAM MORMON CHURCH.
I WAS A VERY DEVOUT MORMON.
I WAS LED ASTRAY BY A MAN
WHO WAS A SELF-PROCLAIMED PROPHET
WHO PLAYED ON MY BELIEFS AND LED ME DOWN A ROAD
THAT ENDED UP WITH ME BELIEVING
THAT I SHOULD BE IN A POLYGAMIST RELATIONSHIP.
AFTER ABOUT NINE MONTHS
OF THIS TREMENDOUSLY CONFUSING EXPERIENCE,
ONE OF THE BELIEVERS,
HE CONFESSED THAT THE PROPHET WASN'T A PROPHET AT ALL.
HE WAS A CON ARTIST.
MY SISTER WIFE WAS A FAKE SISTER WIFE.
SHE WAS NOT A BELIEVER.
NONE OF THE PEOPLE IN THE GROUP WERE BELIEVERS AT ALL.
OKAY, SO...
HERE, LET ME GRAB...
Willie: THIS IS A PART OF YOUR LIFE YOU FORGET ABOUT,
AND YOU TRY BURYING.
AND YOU WANT TO -- SO, YOU HAVE A TENDENCY
TO BREAK YOURSELF INTO TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
Kollene: MM-HMM.
I GOT THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE -- ALTER-EGOS -- GOING ON HERE.
[ CHUCKLES ]
I'VE GOT FOUR.
FOR GIRLS, THEY TRY AND GET THEM OUT FROM OTHER GROUPS
AND, LIKE, "HEY, LET'S GIVE THEM TO THE MEN
"THAT NEED MORE WIVES.
"AND THAT WAY, WE CAN GET MORE BLOODLINES
SO WE CAN HAVE MORE MARRIAGES THAT AREN'T INCESTED."
THAT'S WHAT MY GROUP IS BASED OFF OF, IS ***.
I MARRIED MY SECOND COUSIN.
NOT MY FIRST. EVERYONE WAS LIKE, "OH, IT'S OKAY.
IT'S OKAY BECAUSE HE'S ONLY YOUR SECOND COUSIN."
[ CHUCKLES ]
ONE OF MY SISTERS RECENTLY MARRIED ANOTHER BROTHER
FROM ANOTHER MOTHER, NOT MY MOM'S KIDS,
BUT A DIFFERENT SISTER.
WHAT IS OUR GOAL FOR TONIGHT?
I WANT TO TELL MY STORY EVEN IF IT CAUSES ME HEARTACHE
AND REMEMBERING AND ALL THE PAIN
SO THAT MAYBE POSSIBLY I COULD SAVE ONE LIFE.
Kristyn: MY SPEAKING OUT ISN'T ABOUT HATING THEM.
IT ISN'T ABOUT HATING ANYBODY.
IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO --
JUST LIKE YOU SAID -- HELP OTHER PEOPLE.
TO COME OUT AND TALK ABOUT IT --
I DON'T THINK ANYONE REALLY REALIZES
THE TOLL IT TAKES ON THE PERSON EXPRESSING THEIR STORY.
KNOWING WHAT I KNOW NOW, I KNOW WHY PEOPLE DON'T.
SWEETIE, I GRABBED SOME THREAD REAL QUICK.
Christine: OH, THIS IS GOOD. I LIKE THAT.
YEAH.
Kody: OKAY, WHERE'S MERI?
HOW'S IT GOING?
CHRISTINE, DID YOU GRAB THE NEEDLE AND THREAD?
[ CHILD SHOUTING ]
THANK YOU.
WE KNOW BAD THINGS HAPPEN IN OUR CULTURE.
WE KNOW THAT THESE PEOPLE HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE.
WE VALIDATE THAT.
WE'RE SORRY THAT THAT HAPPENED.
IT'S A TRAGEDY.
THEY WILL NOT VALIDATE
THAT WE ARE HAVING A GOOD EXPERIENCE
AND THAT, IN OUR CULTURE, PEOPLE HAVE A GOOD EXPERIENCE.
ARE YOU NERVOUS?
I'M VERY NERVOUS.
I'M TRYING TO DISTRACT MYSELF FROM THINKING ABOUT ACTUALLY...
REALLY? ARE YOU NERVOUS, MERI?
I'M NOT NERVOUS AT ALL.
[ LAUGHS ]
REALLY?
NOT AT ALL.
WE'RE TRYING TO SEPARATE OURSELVES FROM THIS STEREOTYPE,
AND THERE ARE THOSE THAT KEEP WANTING TO PLACE THE STEREOTYPE
BACK ON US AND KEEP WANTING TO SAY,
"HEY, YOU BELIEVE IN A FAITH THAT IS FAULTED.
YOU ARE WEAK WOMEN. YOU ARE A CONTROLLING MAN."
ALL THESE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO STEREOTYPE
WITH THE LIFESTYLE.
THEY SAY YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST PIG, KODY.
I COULD AGREE WITH THEM.
[ LAUGHTER ]
WHATEVER.
PEOPLE ARE ANGRY ABOUT POLYGAMY
BECAUSE MOST OF WHAT PEOPLE SEE
IS STUFF THAT MAKES ME ANGRY,
AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POLYGAMY,
TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST.
YOU PUT ON THE MEDIA THAT THERE'S COMMUNITIES
THAT LIVE PLURAL MARRIAGE
WHERE THERE'S ABUSE HAPPENING TO CHILDREN
AND MEN RAPING YOUNG GIRLS.
THAT MAKES ME ANGRY, TOO. BUT THAT'S NOT POLYGAMY.
BUT PEOPLE LUMP IT ALL TOGETHER
THAT IT IS POLYGAMY BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T KNOW.
I JUST REALLY WASN'T READY TO FACE MY AUNT KRISTYN YET.
WHENEVER WE'RE WALKING INTO THESE EVENTS,
I ALWAYS FEEL LIKE DEAD MAN WALKING.
YOU JUST FEEL EVERYBODY'S EYES ON YOU,
AND YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE WALKING TO YOUR EXECUTION.
Robyn: YOU SAID SISTER WIVES HATE EACH OTHER.
I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU GUYS.
OH, RELAX. EVERYTHING'S JUST FINE.
HI, WILLIE.
HOWDY.
NICE TO SEE YOU.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
HI, KOLLENE.
[ INDISTINCT CONVERSATION ]
THE PROFESSOR ASKED US IF WE WANTED TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM
WITH THE OTHER PANELISTS BEFORE THE DISCUSSION,
AND I JUST REALLY WASN'T READY TO FACE MY AUNT KRISTYN YET,
AND SO I JUST SAID, "PLEASE, NO. COULD WE JUST STAY SEPARATE?"
HELLO, PROFESSOR. HOW ARE YOU? GOOD TO SEE YOU.
PUSH THE DOOR SHUT SO THEY DON'T GET FREAKED OUT AND SCARED.
NO, LEAVE IT OPEN. WE WANT TO SEE THEM FREAKED OUT AND SCARED.
[ Laughing ] NO, WE DON'T.
Robyn: PEOPLE COULD PROBABLY LOOK AT US AND GO,
"WOW. THIS IS A LOT OF DRAMA. I MEAN, THEY'RE JUST GONNA TALK.
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE..."
THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND
THAT WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS ANTI-POLYGAMIST...
WAVE OF HATE...
ALL OF OUR LIVES.
...ALL OF OUR LIVES,
ALL OF OUR MARRIAGE, YOU KNOW.
YOU KNOW, FOR SOME OF US, FROM THE TIME WE WERE TEENY KIDS.
HAVING FAMILY MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, TELL YOU, "SEE YOU IN HELL."
I EVEN HAD FAMILY MEMBERS WHO SAID
THAT THEY WOULDN'T ASSOCIATE, AND DIDN'T FOR YEARS,
UNTIL THEY FELT LIKE I WASN'T SOME KIND OF PERVERT.
WE'RE LOST.
SORRY.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHY WE HAVE TO DO THIS.
YOU KNOW WHY, CHRISTINE.
I KNOW. IT'S AN IMPORTANT STORY AND WE HAVE TO.
'CAUSE YOU SAID, OF ALL PEOPLE,
YOU WERE TIRED OF WARREN JEFFS BEING YOUR POSTER CHILD.
IT'S A SISTER WIFE.
DUN-DUN-DUN.
[ LAUGHS ]
Kody: MERI, WOULD YOU?
Meri: SURE.
Christine: SO, I'M IN THE BATHROOM, AND...
I HEAR AUNT KRISTYN OUTSIDE LAUGHING --
NOT AT ME -- I KNOW SHE WASN'T LAUGHING AT ME.
SHE WAS JUST LAUGHING WITH SOMEONE ELSE OUTSIDE.
AND I JUST THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS COMING
'CAUSE SHE WANTED TO CONFRONT ME.
I JUST THOUGHT THAT I WAS GONNA BE IN THE BATHROOM,
STUCK FOREVER.
HEY, MERI.
HOW ARE YOU?
I'M GOOD. HOW ARE YOU?
HI, ROBYN.
HEY.
Christine: OKAY.
Christine Marie: ARE THEY IN THE BATHROOM?
THEY'RE IN THERE, ALL OF THEM.
I JUST FELT LIKE IT WAS LIKE A JUNIOR-HIGH DRAMA THING.
Christine: YOU GUYS CAME,
AND I FINALLY STEPPED OUT EMPOWERED AND PROTECTED.
I'M LIKE, "OKAY, ONE IN FRONT, ONE IN BACK.
JUST GET ME OUT OF HERE."
AFTER THE SISTER WIVES CAME DOWN AND WENT IN AFTER HER,
AND THEN SHE WALKED OUT REALLY FAST,
I'M LIKE, "WHAT WAS THAT?"
ARE YOU OKAY?
I DON'T LIKE CONFRONTATION. I DON'T LIKE IT.
AND I DO MY BEST TO AVOID CONFRONTATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
AND THERE'S BEEN TIMES WHERE WE'VE HAD TO,
AND I JUST SHUT DOWN.
[ Voice breaking ] I REALLY CAN'T SAY THANKS ENOUGH.
ALMIGHTY FATHER, IN THE NAME OF THE SON,
WE ASK THY BLESSING AND THY DISCERNMENT
AND THY STRENGTH
AS WE ENTER INTO THIS SITUATION THAT WE FIND CHALLENGING.
WE ASK THAT YOU BUOY US UP AND STRENGTHEN US
AND SUPPORT US AND BLESS US WITH INSPIRATION,
THAT WE'LL BE KIND AND THAT WE WILL ACTUALLY BE ACCURATE
IN WHAT WE EXPRESS
AND DESIRE TO BE ABLE TO LIVE OUR LIFE IN FREEDOM.
AMEN.
Wives: AMEN.
[ INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS ]
Janelle: WHENEVER WE'RE WALKING INTO THESE EVENTS,
I ALWAYS FEEL LIKE DEAD MAN WALKING.
YOU JUST FEEL EVERYBODY'S EYES ON YOU,
AND YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE WALKING TO YOUR EXECUTION.
I'M LIKE THAT WITH ANY PUBLIC SPEAKING,
BUT THAT FELT LIKE THAT ESPECIALLY...
WHEN I WAS JUST A YOUNG BABY,
MY MOM WAS INTRODUCED TO THE PRINCIPLE OF PLURAL MARRIAGE.
SHE MADE THE DECISION THAT THIS WAS A PROPER LIFESTYLE
FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILY.
I ACTUALLY GREW UP IN THE MAINSTREAM LDS CHURCH,
THE MORMON CHURCH.
I MET A GUY. HE INTRODUCED ME TO MERI'S FAMILY,
AND FOR A LONG TIME,
THEY WERE KIND OF LIKE MY NOVEL POLYGAMIST FRIENDS.
I WOULD GO TO PARTIES AND SAY, "OH, I KNOW THESE POLYGAMISTS."
I WAS RAISED IN A PLURAL FAMILY, HAD TWO MOMS.
WHAT I DIDN'T KNOW WAS THAT I WAS RAISED IN FEAR
BECAUSE WE'RE TOLD THAT IF PEOPLE FIND OUT
THAT WE LIVE PLURAL MARRIAGE,
OUR DADS WOULD GET PUT IN PRISON.
I FELL IN LOVE WITH THEIR FAMILY,
AND I'M VERY HAPPY WITH MY FAMILY.
YEAH, WE'RE NOT PERFECT, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT FAMILY IS?
MY EXPERIENCE IN PLURAL MARRIAGE HAS NOT BEEN AN EASY ONE.
IT HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE FOR US,
BUT IT HAS ALSO BEEN A BLESSED ONE.
I'VE FELT LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO MARRY THE WOMEN THAT I LOVE.
I WAS NOT TRYING TO BROAD-PAINTBRUSH YOU GUYS.
I THINK THAT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY MY FEELINGS ABOUT POLYGAMY
AS MUCH AS YOU GET TO SAY THEM.
YOU'RE PAINTING US THROUGH YOUR EXPERIENCE.
THE ANTHROPOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT U.N.L.V.
IS HOSTING A PANEL DISCUSSION WITH OUR FAMILY
AND SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN POLYGAMY
AND HAVE HAD A NEGATIVE EXPERIENCE.
MY EXPERIENCE OF POLYGAMY WAS...HELL.
IF ONE MOTHER WAS JEALOUS AT THE OTHER MOTHER,
WE HAD TO TAKE IT OUT --
RATHER THAN TAKE IT OUT ON THE MOTHER,
SHE TOOK IT OUT ON HER CHILDREN.
MY FATHER... WAS NEVER AROUND,
AND WHEN HE WAS, HE WASN'T A VERY DECENT PERSON.
I THOUGHT I WAS THE FIRST WIFE,
BUT THEN HE HAD THIS REVELATION
THAT THERE WAS A NEW WIFE,
AND SHE WAS GOING TO BE THE FIRST WIFE
AND I HAD TO BE -- FINANCIALLY SUPPORT HER AND HIM,
AND SO I BECAME LIKE A SLAVE TO THIS SISTER WIFE.
SISTER WIVES ARE NOT...FRIENDS.
THEY HATE EACH OTHER.
AND IF THEY WERE YOUR BABYSITTER,
YOUR KIDS WERE GONNA GET BEAT AND ABUSED
IN DIFFERENT WAYS BY THOSE MOMS AND HER KIDS.
WHEN MY HUSBAND STARTED COURTING OTHER WOMEN,
MY HEART WAS BROKEN,
AND WHEN THEY DROVE OFF ON THEIR HONEYMOON,
I DIDN'T KNOW IF I WAS GONNA MAKE IT.
AND THEN, WHEN THEY CAME BACK AND I HEARD THINGS,
I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA DIE.
I WAS PRETTY MUCH SUICIDAL BY THEN.
I'M THINKING, "HOW IN THE WORLD
"AM I SUPPOSED TO TREAT HER?
"I'M GONNA HAVE TO SOMEHOW BREAK THE ICE AND SAY HI.
I'M GOING TO HAVE TO."
AUNT KRISTYN, I LOVE YOU.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH YOU.
[ LAUGHS ]
UM, I...
I REMEMBER YOU SO WELL, AND I REMEMBER YOUR HUSBAND.
AND, SWEETHEART, HE WASN'T A NICE MAN.
I'M SORRY.
I'M SO GLAD YOU GUYS ARE HAPPY.
THANK YOU. ME TOO.
I THINK YOUR FAMILY IS AN ANOMALY
BECAUSE ALL AROUND ME, SO MANY HEARTBREAKING STORIES.
BUT YOU ALSO HAVE HEARD A LOT OF GOOD STORIES, TOO.
YOU KNOW WHAT, ROBYN?
I'VE ONLY TALKED TO ONE PERSON WHOSE LEFT
WHO'S TOLD ME THEY WERE HAPPY.
KRISTYN, I AM SO SORRY THINGS HAPPENED THE WAY THEY DID,
BUT YOU'VE GOT TO REALIZE -- AND I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT --
THAT WHO YOU MARRY MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE
IN WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IS.
AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS IN A MONOGAMOUS MARRIAGE.
[ Voice breaking ] BUT I ALSO KNOW --
I HAVE SISTERS AND I HAVE MY MOTHER,
AND THEY TELL STORIES OF FAMILY
AND WORKING OUT THEIR STUFF WITH THEIR SISTER WIVES
AND BEING SO CLOSE.
EVERYBODY'S EXPERIENCES ARE DIFFERENT.
THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT.
WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO NOW IS YOU HAVE A GOOD SENSE
OF WHAT SOME OF THE ISSUES ARE,
AND I'M SURE YOU HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO ASK THEIR QUESTION...
OKAY, SO, I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE WHOLE FATHERHOOD,
AS YOU GUYS HAVE TALKED ABOUT YOUR STORIES,
AND I WANT TO ASK YOU, KODY, HOW MANY KIDS DO YOU HAVE?
17.
17, OKAY.
DO YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE EMOTIONALLY ACTIVE
IN ALL OF YOUR KIDS' LIFE AS BEST AS YOU CAN BE?
I FEEL LIKE I'M AS ACTIVE IN MY CHILDREN'S LIFE
AS ANYBODY THAT I KNOW
THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN THEIR CHILDREN'S LIFE.
MONOGAMOUS OR PLURAL.
MONOGAMOUS OR PLURAL.
Christine Marie: THEY'RE SPECIAL.
OVERALL, REGARDLESS OF THE CULTURE,
IT IS FILLED WITH UNHAPPINESS, POVERTY,
POOR EDUCATION OF CHILDREN.
I THINK IT'S PATENTLY UNFAIR AND UNJUST, IN FACT,
TO SAY THAT POLYGAMY IS EVIL
BECAUSE EVILS HAPPENED TO YOU IN POLYGAMY.
MONOGAMOUS HAVE ABUSE. OTHER SOCIETIES HAVE ABUSE.
OTHER RELIGIONS HAVE ABUSE. NONRELIGIONS HAVE ABUSE.
IT IS HUGE WITHIN POLYGAMIST SOCIETIES
AND CULTURES AND FAMILIES,
AND THAT'S NOT JUST IN AMERICA, NOT JUST HERE.
TO BE FAIR, WE CAN'T SIT AND BROAD-BRUSH THIS.
YOU'RE PAINTING US THROUGH YOUR EXPERIENCE.
NO. WELL, NO MORE THAN YOU ARE FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
I'M NOT RECOMMENDING PLURAL MARRIAGE FOR EVERYBODY.
I'M ASKING PERMISSION FROM THE WORLD
TO ALLOW ME AND THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO DO IT.
WE HAVEN'T DIRECTED ANYTHING -- PAINTING ON YOU.
WE HAVEN'T DIRECTED IT ON YOU.
Robyn: YEAH, YOU DID, KOLLENE. YOU SAID SISTER WIVES --
I SAID "SISTER WIVES," INDICATING AN -- NOT YOU GUYS.
YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT. YOU SAID SISTER WIVES HATE EACH OTHER.
I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU GUYS.
[ SCOFFS ] BUT DO THEY KNOW THAT?
DOES THE WORLD KNOW THAT?
I WAS NOT TRYING TO BROAD-PAINTBRUSH YOU GUYS.
Kristyn: I THINK THAT I HAVE THE RIGHT
TO SAY MY FEELINGS ABOUT POLYGAMY
AS MUCH AS YOU GET TO SAY THEM.
Woman: KODY, THE WAY YOU INCREASE YOUR TONE OF VOICE,
THE WAY THE FOUR WOMEN AROUND YOU
LOOK AT YOU FOR PERMISSION...
[ MERI LAUGHS ]
...FOR ME, AS A WOMAN, I HAVE A QUESTION.
DO YOU HAVE THE FINANCIAL WHEREWITHAL
TO TAKE THE MONEY OUT TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILDREN
IF YOU HAD TO ESCAPE FROM KODY,
OR DOES HE HAVE TO GIVE YOU PERMISSION?
I MAKE MY OWN PAYCHECK, AND I HAVE MY OWN BANK ACCOUNT.
I DON'T SHARE WITH KODY.
[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]
I'M SORRY THAT THAT'S YOUR PERSPECTIVE,
BUT I DID CHOOSE TO MARRY THIS MAN,
AND I LOOK AT HIM BECAUSE I LOVE HIM,
AND I AM ANXIOUS TO HEAR WHAT HE SAYS,
AND I'M ANXIOUS TO GET THE MIKE
SO THAT I CAN HAVE A TURN TO SAY WHAT I WANT TO SAY.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN IN WONDERING IF WE'RE FREE
BECAUSE I'M SURE, FROM THE STEREOTYPES THAT YOU'VE SEEN,
THAT YOU WOULD WONDER THAT.
KODY ACTUALLY SAYS SPECIFICALLY, "LOOK, IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY,
"I WILL GIVE YOU MONEY AND YOU CAN LEAVE.
"IF THAT'S WHAT YOU HOLDING YOU BACK IS MONEY,
"THAT MEANS NOTHING.
YOU GET YOUR FREEDOM."
BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SLEEP WITH KODY EVERY NIGHT
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO SHARE HIM.
[ LAUGHTER ]
RIGHT?
"YOU'RE JUST BROKEN. HOW DARE YOU?
"HOW COULD YOU LET YOUR HUSBAND CHEAT ON YOU
WITH ANOTHER WOMAN?"
YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU WOULD LEAVE IF YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.
DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS.
DO NOT MAKE ME A VICTIM, SWEETIE.
Kody: THE DEBATE GOT HEATED.
IT GOT PASSIONATE.
AND I STARTED REALIZING,
IN A WAY, THAT IT WAS KIND OF RIDICULOUS ON A LEVEL,
BUT I WAS SO FRUSTRATED.
Robyn: IT STARTED TO BECOME A LITTLE BIT MORE CONFRONTATIONAL
WHEN WE STOPPED ADDRESSING OUR PUBLIC
AND OUR AUDIENCE AND WE STARTED TO ADDRESS EACH OTHER.
YOU DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SLEEP WITH KODY EVERY NIGHT
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO SHARE HIM.
[ LAUGHTER ]
RIGHT?
DAMN. THAT'S TOO BAD.
DO YOU KNOW HOW LIBERATING IT IS
TO NOT HAVE SLEEP WITH HIM EVERY NIGHT?
[ LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE ]
I LOVE MERI, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO SLEEP
WITH MY HUSBAND EVERY NIGHT, EITHER,
AND HE'S NOT SLEEPING WITH OTHER WOMEN
WHEN I'M NOT SLEEPING WITH HIM.
THAT DOESN'T OFFEND YOU OR FRUSTRATE YOU OR SOMETHING
WHEN A WOMAN COMES UP TO YOU AND SAYS,
"YOU'RE JUST BROKEN. HOW DARE YOU?
"HOW COULD YOU LET YOUR HUSBAND CHEAT ON YOU
WITH ANOTHER WOMAN?"
WELL, I JUST THINK SHE'S STUPID.
[ LAUGHS ]
I MEAN, THAT'S HER PERSPECTIVE.
BUT I MEAN, YEAH, I -- IT JUST -- IT'S DUMB.
I MEAN, I KNOW WHAT MY HUSBAND IS DOING
AND I DON'T CONSIDER IT CHEATING
AND SO IT'S OKAY WITH ME.
IT'S LIKE, I KNOW MY TRUTH.
BECAUSE MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS
SAY THAT I'M ENTITLED TO CHOOSE MY HUSBAND,
WHETHER HE'S MARRIED OR NOT, THAT'S OKAY.
YOU KNOW, AND IF IT MEANS THAT MY RELIGION SAYS
I STAY AS A BRIDE OF CHRIST AND DEVOTE MY LIFE TO CHRIST
AND I REMAIN CELIBATE FOR MY LIFE, THAT'S OKAY, TOO.
AND EVERYBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THAT RELIGION.
THERE'S A LOT OF DIVERSITY OF EXPERIENCE AND THOUGHT
IN THE FUNDAMENTALIST MORMON CULTURE.
IT'S NOT ALL ONE CHURCH.
Christine Marie: YOU GUYS ARE SPECIAL,
BUT SO IS SOMEBODY WHO CAN, YOU KNOW,
DRIVE DRUNK WITHOUT GETTING IN AN ACCIDENT.
THAT'S UNIQUE.
SO, OVERALL, WE DON'T WANT TO RECOMMEND THAT.
IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT FOR FAMILIES
TO LIVE THIS LIFESTYLE LIKE YOU,
AND IT'S USUALLY FILLED WITH PROBLEMS, SADNESS, AND POVERTY.
I THINK THAT COMMENT RIGHT THERE
WAS WHAT KODY WAS TALKING ABOUT
WHEN HE SAID PLEASE DON'T PAINT IT WITH A BROAD BRUSH
BECAUSE THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY A BROAD BRUSH.
DON'T THINK IT WAS A BROAD BRUSH.
I'M TRYING TO SAY YOU ARE UNIQUE
AND YOUR F-- YOU KNOW, THAT...
WE'RE NOT THAT UNIQUE.
WE'RE NOT.
IF THERE WERE MORE FAMILIES
COMING FORWARD LIKE OUR FAMILY,
THAT BROAD BRUSH WOULD JUST GO AWAY.
I WOULD ESTIMATE THAT THE PLURAL FAMILIES
THAT I KNOW REASONABLY WELL,
ABOUT 30% HAVE A SATISFACTORY MARRIAGE,
BUT ANOTHER 35% HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES
BUT ARE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN,
AND ANOTHER 35% ARE COMPLETELY DYSFUNCTIONAL.
HOW DOES THIS SQUARE WITH MONOGAMY?
I WOULD SUSPECT WE'D FIND
THE PERCENTAGE IS MORE OR LESS THE SAME.
WHAT IF, LIKE ME, ONE DAY YOU WAKE UP AND YOU SAY, "WOW.
I DID ALL THAT, AND IT WAS ALL FOR SUPERSTITION?"
THEN I WOULD LEAVE.
AMEN, SISTER.
THEN I WOULD LEAVE.
MERI, YOU WERE SAYING, I BELIEVE,
THAT AT ONE TIME I HEARD YOU SAY
YOU WOULDN'T LIVE PLURAL MARRIAGE
IF IT WASN'T YOUR BELIEF, AND ROBYN SAID THAT.
AND SO, BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS --
YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU WOULD LEAVE IF YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.
DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS.
I'M ASKING. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING.
NO, I SAID IF I WOKE UP AND I DECIDED
THIS WASN'T GONNA MAKE ME HAPPY ANYMORE
AND THIS DIDN'T WORK FOR ME
AND IF I DIDN'T BELIEVE THIS ANYMORE, I WOULD LEAVE.
THAT'S RIGHT.
DO NOT MAKE ME A VICTIM, SWEETIE.
KODY, WAS YOUR MOTIVE IN BECOMING A POLYGAMIST
TO LIVE YOUR RELIGION?
I MEAN, YOU HAD THE RIGHT --
MY MOTIVE IN BEING A POLYGAMIST WAS TO LIVE MY RELIGION.
THAT'S WHEN I STARTED.
BUT I WOULD DO THIS ALL OVER AGAIN
BECAUSE I LOVE THESE FOUR WOMEN AND I LOVE MY CHILDREN.
THE DEBATE, IN GENERAL, I THINK, WAS AWFUL.
I'D LIKE TO THANK EVERYONE FOR COMING.
[ APPLAUSE ]
Meri: I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT IT TURNED INTO A DEBATE.
I REALLY HAD HIGH HOPES OF IT BEING JUST A DISCUSSION.
[ INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS ]
Aspyn: THE PANEL DISCUSSION DID NOT GO VERY WELL
JUST 'CAUSE THE OTHER PEOPLE,
LIKE, WOULDN'T SEE OUR SIDE OF IT.
BUT THE PARENTS DIDN'T SEE
THAT THEY WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES.
YOU'RE LICENSED AND EVERYTHING?
YEAH. [ LAUGHS ]
AWESOME.
I WAS REALLY ANGRY. I WAS --
I GOT PASSIONATE AND I GOT PRETTY ANGRY
BECAUSE I REALIZED THAT THE TRUTH WOULD NOT BE HEARD HERE.
DO YOU GUYS WANT TO DO SOME DINNER AFTER?
I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK I'M KIND OF -- I'M DONE.
BUMMED? [ LAUGHS ]
I KNOW. COMPLETELY.
IT WAS SAD 'CAUSE WE NEVER REACHED OVER THE FENCE.
WE NEVER CAME TO ANY KIND OF AGREEMENT
OF HOW WE CAN HELP THE COMMUNITY.
OR EVEN AN AGREEMENT TO DISAGREE,
THAT IT WAS OKAY THAT THEY HAD THEIR STORIES
AND IT WAS OKAY THAT WE HAD OURS.
IT WAS A PLEASURE. IF YOU'RE IN TOWN...
GOOD TO MEET YOU, WILLIE. I'M REALLY SORRY.
OH, IT'S FINE.
GOOD TO MEET YOU.
ARE YOU DOING OKAY?
YEAH.
WHEN I INITIALLY STARTED PROBING
WHAT A POLYGAMIST FAMILY MIGHT LOOK LIKE,
THE FAMILIES THAT DID WORK,
THEY HAD THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS.
ONE, THEY HAD -- THEY WERE ECONOMICALLY WELL-OFF.
TWO IS THAT THE HUSBAND WORKED VERY HARD
ON TRYING TO MANAGE HIS AFFECTION.
IF HE HAD A FAVORITE WIFE, HE KEPT IT VERY QUIET.
AND THIRD AND MOST IMPORTANT --
AND THIS IS WHAT I REALLY LEARNED FROM THE BROWNS --
IS THAT THE SISTER WIVES HAD BECOME FRIENDS.
Meri: WE WENT INTO IT
JUST KNOWING HOW UNCOMFORTABLE CHRISTINE WAS
WITH HER AUNT OPPOSING HER, AND IT JUST GOT INTENSE.
IT WAS ROUGH.
Christine: I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY WAY TO PREVENT IT.
I DON'T, EITHER. I THINK IT WAS WHAT IT WAS.
AND WE JUST -- WE'VE GOT TO GET MORE PEOPLE
TALKING ABOUT THEIR GOOD STORIES.
Kody: IN THE END, I MELTED DOWN.
KODY, I DON'T THINK YOU MELTED DOWN.
I REALLY, REALLY DON'T.
I THINK YOU STOOD UP FOR YOUR BELIEFS.
I DON'T, EITHER.
I THINK YOUR BELIEFS WERE UNDER ATTACK,
AND YOU STOOD UP FOR YOUR BELIEFS,
AND I WAS PROUD OF YOU FOR IT.
DAD, WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU IS I CAN'T GO TO SCHOOL.
MARIAH, I'M NOT SAYING THAT.
WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?
I STARTED DESIGNING PIECES OF JEWELRY FOR EACH OF MY WIVES.
CHRISTINE.
I HAVE FAITH THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE
REALLY DECENT PEOPLE ABOUT THIS.
DO YOU LOVE IT?
YEAH, IT'S NICE.
DID YOU LIKE IT?
WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO GO TO A MARRIAGE RETREAT
IN SEDONA, ARIZONA.
WE'RE GOING TO LET YOU SCULPT WITH YOUR OWN BODIES.
CRAZY LADY, YOU ARE PUSHING US RIGHT TO THE THRESHOLD.
"THIS IS HOW CLOSE I FEEL TO YOU, KODY.
THIS IS HOW FAR APART I FEEL."
Christine: NO, I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.
IT WAS THE WORST PART OF THE TRIP FOR ME.
I'M AT A POINT IN MY LIFE WHERE I FEEL
LIKE I REALLY AM HAPPY TO BE SEPARATE.
I JUST DON'T FEEL THAT INVESTED.