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>>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE AND
>>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AZ ILLUSTRATED
WELCOME TO AZ ILLUSTRATED NATURE.
NATURE. I'M GEORGIA DAVIS.
I'M GEORGIA DAVIS. TONIGHT WE'LL TELL YOU ABOUT THE
TONIGHT WE'LL TELL YOU ABOUT THE EFFORTS TO REINTRODUCE THE
EFFORTS TO REINTRODUCE THE MEXICAN GRAY WOLF INTO ARIZONA
MEXICAN GRAY WOLF INTO ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO.
AND NEW MEXICO. IT HAS BEEN 15 YEARS SINCE THE
IT HAS BEEN 15 YEARS SINCE THE ANIMALS WERE ALLOWED TO ROAM
ANIMALS WERE ALLOWED TO ROAM AGAIN IN THEIR FORMER HABITAT
AGAIN IN THEIR FORMER HABITAT AND MEET A MAN WHO IS
AND MEET A MAN WHO IS AFFECTIONATELY CALLED THE
AFFECTIONATELY CALLED THE GRANDFATHER OF CLIMATE CHANGE.
GRANDFATHER OF CLIMATE CHANGE. HE'S PREDICTING TOUGHER TIMES
HE'S PREDICTING TOUGHER TIMES FOR ARIZONA.
FOR ARIZONA. FIRST, HERE'S A LOOK AT TODAY'S
FIRST, HERE'S A LOOK AT TODAY'S HEADLINES.
HEADLINES. >>> A LOSS FOR THE STATE OF
>>> A LOSS FOR THE STATE OF COLORADO COULD BE A
COLORADO COULD BE A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR GAIN FOR
MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR GAIN FOR ARIZONA.
ARIZONA. U.S.A. BASKETBALL IS PLANNING TO
U.S.A. BASKETBALL IS PLANNING TO MOVE FROM COLORADO SPRINGS TO
MOVE FROM COLORADO SPRINGS TO TEMPE.
TEMPE. IT'S PART OF A $350 MILLION PLAN
IT'S PART OF A $350 MILLION PLAN WHICH INCLUDES U.S.A.
WHICH INCLUDES U.S.A. BASKETBALL'S NATIONAL
BASKETBALL'S NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS, HOTEL AND
HEADQUARTERS, HOTEL AND RESIDENTIAL UNIT.
RESIDENTIAL UNIT. U.S.A. BASKETBALL IS A UNIT THAT
U.S.A. BASKETBALL IS A UNIT THAT SERVES FOR MEN'S AND WOMEN'S
SERVES FOR MEN'S AND WOMEN'S BASKETBALL AND SELECTS TEAMS FOR
BASKETBALL AND SELECTS TEAMS FOR THE OLYMPICS.
THE OLYMPICS. >>> SCHOOL OFFICIALS ARE RELATE
>>> SCHOOL OFFICIALS ARE RELATE WAITING FOR THE RELEASE OF
WAITING FOR THE RELEASE OF SCORES.
SCORES. THEY'RE PLANNING TO ANNOUNCE THE
THEY'RE PLANNING TO ANNOUNCE THE RESULTS OF THE 2012-2013 GRADES
RESULTS OF THE 2012-2013 GRADES FOR ALL SCHOOLS.
FOR ALL SCHOOLS. GRADES A THROUGH F FOR EVERY
GRADES A THROUGH F FOR EVERY SCHOOL THROUGH THE DISTRICT.
SCHOOL THROUGH THE DISTRICT. >>> TWO DOCTORS FROM THE
>>> TWO DOCTORS FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA MEDICAL
UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA MEDICAL CENTER ARE BREAKING GROUND WITH
CENTER ARE BREAKING GROUND WITH A NEW CARDIOVASCULAR SURGERY.
A NEW CARDIOVASCULAR SURGERY. THEY ARE THE FIRST SURGEONS IN
THEY ARE THE FIRST SURGEONS IN THE WORLD TO PERFORM A ROBOTIC
THE WORLD TO PERFORM A ROBOTIC IMPLANTATION OF AN APPARATUS OF
IMPLANTATION OF AN APPARATUS OF THE ARTICULAR DEVICE.
THE ARTICULAR DEVICE. IT TAKES OVER THE FUNCTION OF
IT TAKES OVER THE FUNCTION OF THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HEART WHEN
THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HEART WHEN IT IS FAILING.
IT IS FAILING. THAT'S A LOOK AT TONIGHT'S
THAT'S A LOOK AT TONIGHT'S HEADLINES.
HEADLINES. >>> THE MEXICAN GRAY WOLF WAS A
>>> THE MEXICAN GRAY WOLF WAS A NATURAL INHABITANT OF OUR
NATURAL INHABITANT OF OUR LANDSCAPE FOR CENTURIES, BUT
LANDSCAPE FOR CENTURIES, BUT HUNTING, POISONING AND OTHER
HUNTING, POISONING AND OTHER SUCH MEASURES TOOK THEIR TOLL ON
SUCH MEASURES TOOK THEIR TOLL ON THIS ANIMAL ALMOST TAKING IT TO
THIS ANIMAL ALMOST TAKING IT TO THE POINT OF EX-TINGION.
THE POINT OF EX-TINGION. HOWEVER, IN THE 1990s FOLKS
HOWEVER, IN THE 1990s FOLKS LAUNCHED A CONCERTED BUT
LAUNCHED A CONCERTED BUT CONTROVERSIAL EARTH TO
CONTROVERSIAL EARTH TO REINTRODUCE THIS PREDATOR.
REINTRODUCE THIS PREDATOR. THE PROGRAM HAS MANY SUPPORTERS
THE PROGRAM HAS MANY SUPPORTERS BUT THERE ARE MANY DETRACTORS.
BUT THERE ARE MANY DETRACTORS. TONIGHT WE'LL HEAR FROM BOTH.
TONIGHT WE'LL HEAR FROM BOTH. WE BEGIN WITH THE TUCSON
WE BEGIN WITH THE TUCSON RESIDENT WHO HAS BEEN WORKING ON
RESIDENT WHO HAS BEEN WORKING ON BEHALF OF THE WOLF FOR MANY
BEHALF OF THE WOLF FOR MANY YEARS.
YEARS. TONY PANIAGUA HAS THAT STORY.
TONY PANIAGUA HAS THAT STORY. >>> THE MEXICAN GRAY WOLF USED
>>> THE MEXICAN GRAY WOLF USED TO ROAM FREELY OVER MILLIONS OF
TO ROAM FREELY OVER MILLIONS OF ACRES.
ACRES. AFTER NEARLY GOING EXTIPGT THEIR
AFTER NEARLY GOING EXTIPGT THEIR TERRITORY WAS LIMITED TO
TERRITORY WAS LIMITED TO RESTRICTIVE ENCLOSURES, BREEDING
RESTRICTIVE ENCLOSURES, BREEDING PENS AS PART OF RECOVERY IN THE
PENS AS PART OF RECOVERY IN THE UNITED STATES.
UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, IN 1998 THE WORK AND
HOWEVER, IN 1998 THE WORK AND DREAMS OF MANY SUPPORTERS
DREAMS OF MANY SUPPORTERS FINALLY BECAME REALITY WITH
FINALLY BECAME REALITY WITH FORMER INTERIOR SECRETARY BRUCE
FORMER INTERIOR SECRETARY BRUCE BABITT AND OTHER DIGNITARIES ON
BABITT AND OTHER DIGNITARIES ON HAND, THE ANIMALS WERE
HAND, THE ANIMALS WERE REINTRODUCED INTO THE WILD AFTER
REINTRODUCED INTO THE WILD AFTER GETTING SOME TIME TO BECOME
GETTING SOME TIME TO BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THEIR NEW
FAMILIAR WITH THEIR NEW SURROUNDINGS.
SURROUNDINGS. >> IT WAS REALLY AN UPLIFTING
>> IT WAS REALLY AN UPLIFTING EXPERIENCE.
EXPERIENCE. >> CRAIG MILLER WAS THERE THEN
>> CRAIG MILLER WAS THERE THEN AND HE CONTINUES TO BE INVOLVED
AND HE CONTINUES TO BE INVOLVED IN THIS ENDIFFER.
IN THIS ENDIFFER. MILLER IS THE SOUTHWEST
MILLER IS THE SOUTHWEST REPRESENTATIVE OF DEFENDERS OF
REPRESENTATIVE OF DEFENDERS OF WILDLIFE WHICH WORKS ON BEHALF
WILDLIFE WHICH WORKS ON BEHALF OF LARGE NATIVE CARNIVORES SUCH
OF LARGE NATIVE CARNIVORES SUCH AS THE MEXICAN GRAY WOLF.
AS THE MEXICAN GRAY WOLF. >> EVERYONE CAME TOGETHER TO
>> EVERYONE CAME TOGETHER TO RIGHT A WRONG OF THE PAST AS WE
RIGHT A WRONG OF THE PAST AS WE SAW IT AND WE KNEW IT WASN'T
SAW IT AND WE KNEW IT WASN'T GOING TO BE EASY AND BIOLOGISTS
GOING TO BE EASY AND BIOLOGISTS DIDN'T KNOW IF THESE CAPTIVE
DIDN'T KNOW IF THESE CAPTIVE RAISED ANIMALS HAD RETAINED
RAISED ANIMALS HAD RETAINED THEIR INSTINCTS NECESSARY TO
THEIR INSTINCTS NECESSARY TO SURVIVE IN THE WILD.
SURVIVE IN THE WILD. WE DIDN'T KNOW IF WOLVES WERE
WE DIDN'T KNOW IF WOLVES WERE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH
GOING TO BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH TERRITORIES, BREED, PREY, ENOUGH
TERRITORIES, BREED, PREY, ENOUGH TO SURVIVE.
TO SURVIVE. WHILE IT'S BEEN A ROCKY ROAD,
WHILE IT'S BEEN A ROCKY ROAD, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF
THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF CHALLENGES.
CHALLENGES. THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF
THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF SUCCESSES, TOO.
SUCCESSES, TOO. I THINK THE FACT THAT THE
I THINK THE FACT THAT THE POPULATION IS ON AN UPWARD
POPULATION IS ON AN UPWARD TRAJECTORY IS A SIGN THAT THINGS
TRAJECTORY IS A SIGN THAT THINGS ARE WORKING.
ARE WORKING. I THINK WE'VE GOT SOLUTIONS THAT
I THINK WE'VE GOT SOLUTIONS THAT WORK.
WORK. >> MILLER SAYS THE SOLUTIONS
>> MILLER SAYS THE SOLUTIONS INCLUDE COOPERATIVE EFFORTS WITH
INCLUDE COOPERATIVE EFFORTS WITH RANCHERS AND OTHER
RANCHERS AND OTHER REINTRODUCTION OPPONENTS THAT
REINTRODUCTION OPPONENTS THAT SHOW THE NUMBER OF CATTLE KILLED
SHOW THE NUMBER OF CATTLE KILLED BY WOLVES.
BY WOLVES. MANY RANCHERS TURNED OUT IN FULL
MANY RANCHERS TURNED OUT IN FULL FORCE IN 1998 EXPRESSING THEIR
FORCE IN 1998 EXPRESSING THEIR CONCERNS THEN AND STILL NOT
CONCERNS THEN AND STILL NOT ACTIVELY OR OPENLY EMT BRACING
ACTIVELY OR OPENLY EMT BRACING THE REINTRODUCTION PROGRAM.
THE REINTRODUCTION PROGRAM. MILLER SAYS THERE ARE MORE THAN
MILLER SAYS THERE ARE MORE THAN 100 RANCHERS IN THE AFFECTED
100 RANCHERS IN THE AFFECTED TERRITORY BUT LESS THAN 20% ARE
TERRITORY BUT LESS THAN 20% ARE WORKING WITH HIS GROUP.
WORKING WITH HIS GROUP. STILL, THERE HAS BEEN PROGRESS
STILL, THERE HAS BEEN PROGRESS OVER THE YEARS.
OVER THE YEARS. >> YEAH, I THINK IT'S CHANGING.
>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S CHANGING. I THINK PEOPLE WERE 15 YEARS AGO
I THINK PEOPLE WERE 15 YEARS AGO VERY HESITANT TO GET INVOLVED.
VERY HESITANT TO GET INVOLVED. FOR EXAMPLE, IN 1998 BETWEEN
FOR EXAMPLE, IN 1998 BETWEEN ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO, THERE
ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO, THERE WERE EXACTLY TWO RANCHERS WHO
WERE EXACTLY TWO RANCHERS WHO WERE WILLING TO WORK WITH US,
WERE WILLING TO WORK WITH US, PARTNERSHIP PROJECTS INVOLVING
PARTNERSHIP PROJECTS INVOLVING RANGE RIDERS, MANAGING CATTLE A
RANGE RIDERS, MANAGING CATTLE A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY TO REDUCE
LITTLE DIFFERENTLY TO REDUCE VULNERABILITY.
VULNERABILITY. THIS YEAR WE HAD 16 PROJECTS SO,
THIS YEAR WE HAD 16 PROJECTS SO, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF RANCHERS
YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF RANCHERS WILLING TO COOPERATE WITH US,
WILLING TO COOPERATE WITH US, REDUCE CONFLICTS, MAYBE EVEN
REDUCE CONFLICTS, MAYBE EVEN TURN WOLVES INTO AN ASSET FOR
TURN WOLVES INTO AN ASSET FOR THEIR OPERATIONS IS IT
THEIR OPERATIONS IS IT INCREASING.
INCREASING. THAT'S ENCOURAGING.
THAT'S ENCOURAGING. TRYING TO RESTORE WOLVES AND
TRYING TO RESTORE WOLVES AND RAISE CATTLE AT THE SAME TIME IS
RAISE CATTLE AT THE SAME TIME IS LIKE TRYING TO SOLVE THE MIDDLE
LIKE TRYING TO SOLVE THE MIDDLE EAST CRISIS AND I THINK WE'VE
EAST CRISIS AND I THINK WE'VE GOT A SOLUTION.
GOT A SOLUTION. THAT SOLUTION INVOLVES HIRING
THAT SOLUTION INVOLVES HIRING SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF PRODUCERS
SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF PRODUCERS AND TRAINING THEM, PROVIDING
AND TRAINING THEM, PROVIDING TOOLS AND TECHNIQUES, RESOURCES
TOOLS AND TECHNIQUES, RESOURCES TO HELP BETTER MONITOR LIVESTOCK
TO HELP BETTER MONITOR LIVESTOCK IN THE PRESENCE OF WOLVES AND
IN THE PRESENCE OF WOLVES AND INTERVENE TO PREVENT WOLVES FROM
INTERVENE TO PREVENT WOLVES FROM DEVELOPING A DEPENDENCY ON
DEVELOPING A DEPENDENCY ON CATTLE AS A FOOD SOURCE.
CATTLE AS A FOOD SOURCE. WE PROVIDE RANGE RIDERS.
WE PROVIDE RANGE RIDERS. WE HELP ESTABLISH SECURE NIGHT
WE HELP ESTABLISH SECURE NIGHT PASTURES.
PASTURES. WE'LL INCREASE ALLOTMENTS.
WE'LL INCREASE ALLOTMENTS. PROVIDE SUPPLEMENTAL FEEDING.
PROVIDE SUPPLEMENTAL FEEDING. HELP MOVE CATTLE INTO SAFE AREAS
HELP MOVE CATTLE INTO SAFE AREAS TO CREATE SECURITY FOR CALVING
TO CREATE SECURITY FOR CALVING OPERATIONS AND WE'LL ALSO
OPERATIONS AND WE'LL ALSO THROUGH DIFFERENT PARTNERSHIPS
THROUGH DIFFERENT PARTNERSHIPS HAVE DEVELOPED WAYS FOR PEOPLE
HAVE DEVELOPED WAYS FOR PEOPLE TO BENEFIT FROM THE PRESENCE OF
TO BENEFIT FROM THE PRESENCE OF WOL OF THE.
WOL OF THE. IT'S ALL ABOUT HELPING TO
IT'S ALL ABOUT HELPING TO REINTEGRATE WOLVES INTO THE
REINTEGRATE WOLVES INTO THE LANDSCAPE AND HELPING PEOPLE
LANDSCAPE AND HELPING PEOPLE LEARN HOW TO ACCEPT THEM.
LEARN HOW TO ACCEPT THEM. >> HE SAYS PART OF THE
>> HE SAYS PART OF THE ACCEPTANCE IS DRIVEN BY
ACCEPTANCE IS DRIVEN BY ECONOMICS.
ECONOMICS. >> I THINK THERE'S A GROWING
>> I THINK THERE'S A GROWING ACCEPTANCE OF WOLVES AND
ACCEPTANCE OF WOLVES AND BUSINESS LEADERS ARE KEEN TO THE
BUSINESS LEADERS ARE KEEN TO THE IDEA THAT THEY CAN PROFIT OFF OF
IDEA THAT THEY CAN PROFIT OFF OF THE RESTORATION OF WOLVES AND
THE RESTORATION OF WOLVES AND WHAT THAT REPRESENTS.
WHAT THAT REPRESENTS. >> WOLF-RELATED MARKETING
>> WOLF-RELATED MARKETING EFFORTS OFTEN RESULT FROM MONEY
EFFORTS OFTEN RESULT FROM MONEY FROM VISITORS PART OF ECO
FROM VISITORS PART OF ECO TOURISM OR OTHER ACTIVITIES OR
TOURISM OR OTHER ACTIVITIES OR THE SALE OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS,
THE SALE OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS, INCLUDING T-SHIRTS OR EVEN BEER.
INCLUDING T-SHIRTS OR EVEN BEER. >> AND THERE WILL BE A RECEPTION
>> AND THERE WILL BE A RECEPTION AT THE PINE TOP BREWING COMPANY
AT THE PINE TOP BREWING COMPANY IN PINE TOP WHERE THERE WILL BE
IN PINE TOP WHERE THERE WILL BE AN UNVEILING OF ALPHA MALE
AN UNVEILING OF ALPHA MALE IMPERIAL ALE.
IMPERIAL ALE. IT'S A COMMEMORATIVE BREW
IT'S A COMMEMORATIVE BREW CELEBRATING THE RETURN OF WOLVES
CELEBRATING THE RETURN OF WOLVES AND WHAT THAT REPRESENTS FOR
AND WHAT THAT REPRESENTS FOR ARIZONA AND THE SOUTHWEST.
ARIZONA AND THE SOUTHWEST. A REWILDING OF OUR SOUTHWESTERN
A REWILDING OF OUR SOUTHWESTERN LANDSCAPES.
LANDSCAPES. >> MILLER ADMITS THE ROAD TO
>> MILLER ADMITS THE ROAD TO RECOVERY HAS BEEN BUMPY AND
RECOVERY HAS BEEN BUMPY AND CHALLENGING BUT HE REMAINS
CHALLENGING BUT HE REMAINS OPTIMISTIC.
OPTIMISTIC. HE CREDITS CHANGING ATTITUDES,
HE CREDITS CHANGING ATTITUDES, INCREASING AWARENESS AND
INCREASING AWARENESS AND IMPROVING EFFORTS THAT ARE
IMPROVING EFFORTS THAT ARE GIVING THIS WOLF A SECOND CHANCE
GIVING THIS WOLF A SECOND CHANCE IN THE TERRITORY IT FORMERLY
IN THE TERRITORY IT FORMERLY INHABITED FOR THOUSANDS OF
INHABITED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
YEARS. >> OH, IT'S INSPIRING.
>> OH, IT'S INSPIRING. YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT THE RAREST
YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT THE RAREST AND MOST CRITICALLY ENDANGERED
AND MOST CRITICALLY ENDANGERED MAMMAL IN THE WORLD THAT WAS
MAMMAL IN THE WORLD THAT WAS ALMOST LOST.
ALMOST LOST. YOU CAN'T GET CLOSER TO
YOU CAN'T GET CLOSER TO EXTINGION THAN HAVING ONLY ONE
EXTINGION THAN HAVING ONLY ONE FEMALE REMAINING IN THE WILD.
FEMALE REMAINING IN THE WILD. FORTUNATELY SHE AND A HANDFUL OF
FORTUNATELY SHE AND A HANDFUL OF MALES WERE LIVE CAPTURED,
MALES WERE LIVE CAPTURED, BROUGHT INTO CAPTIVITY AND 20
BROUGHT INTO CAPTIVITY AND 20 YEARS LATER THEIR OFFSPRING WERE
YEARS LATER THEIR OFFSPRING WERE REINTRODUCED INTO ARIZONA AND
REINTRODUCED INTO ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO.
NEW MEXICO. TODAY WE HAVE 75 ANIMALS, 11
TODAY WE HAVE 75 ANIMALS, 11 PACKS.
PACKS. GOOD PARTNERSHIPS WITH LAND
GOOD PARTNERSHIPS WITH LAND OWNERS AND RANCHERS WHO HAVE
OWNERS AND RANCHERS WHO HAVE LEGITIMATE REASONS TO OPPOSE
LEGITIMATE REASONS TO OPPOSE WOLVES AND WHO ARE WORKING WITH
WOLVES AND WHO ARE WORKING WITH US ON ALLEVIATING CONFLICTS.
US ON ALLEVIATING CONFLICTS. IT'S VERY INSPIRING.
IT'S VERY INSPIRING. >>> AS YOU JUST HEARD, DESPITE
>>> AS YOU JUST HEARD, DESPITE INCREASING PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE AND
INCREASING PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE AND SUPPORT FOR THE WOLVES IN
SUPPORT FOR THE WOLVES IN ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO, THERE
ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO, THERE ARE STILL DETRACTORS OF THE
ARE STILL DETRACTORS OF THE REINTRODUCTION PROGRAM.
REINTRODUCTION PROGRAM. JOINING US FROM PHOENIX IS
JOINING US FROM PHOENIX IS PATRICK GRAY.
PATRICK GRAY. VICE PRESS OF THE ARIZONA CATTLE
VICE PRESS OF THE ARIZONA CATTLE MAN'S ASSOCIATION.
MAN'S ASSOCIATION. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CELEBRATING
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CELEBRATING THIS.
THIS. DO YOU THINK THIS IS A CAUSE FOR
DO YOU THINK THIS IS A CAUSE FOR CELEBRATION?
CELEBRATION? >> I'M NOT SURE THIS IS A CALL
>> I'M NOT SURE THIS IS A CALL FOR CELEBRATION.
FOR CELEBRATION. THERE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSES TO THE
THERE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSES TO THE PROGRAM.
PROGRAM. IF YOU LOOK OVER THE LAST 15
IF YOU LOOK OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS THE POPULATION HAS HELD
YEARS THE POPULATION HAS HELD STEADY BETWEEN 40 AND 60
STEADY BETWEEN 40 AND 60 ANIMALS, WOLVES OUT THERE ON THE
ANIMALS, WOLVES OUT THERE ON THE GROUND, AND I THINK ONE OF THE
GROUND, AND I THINK ONE OF THE HUGE BENEFITS THAT CAME OUT OF
HUGE BENEFITS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT IS THAT THERE WERE SOME
THAT IS THAT THERE WERE SOME SUCCESSFUL PACKS OUT THERE THAT
SUCCESSFUL PACKS OUT THERE THAT ARE TRULY WILD AND THEY KEEP TO
ARE TRULY WILD AND THEY KEEP TO THEIR BUSINESS AND WE'RE OKAY
THEIR BUSINESS AND WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT.
WITH THAT. THE STRUGGLES THAT WE HAVE ON
THE STRUGGLES THAT WE HAVE ON THE GROUND ARE USUALLY THOSE
THE GROUND ARE USUALLY THOSE THAT INTERFERE WITH OUR BUSINESS
THAT INTERFERE WITH OUR BUSINESS OF RUNNING LIVESTOCK AND MORE
OF RUNNING LIVESTOCK AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THOSE WOLVES THAT
IMPORTANTLY THOSE WOLVES THAT INTERFERE WITH THE DAY-TO-DAY
INTERFERE WITH THE DAY-TO-DAY LIVES OF THOSE RURAL COMMUNITIES
LIVES OF THOSE RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE
THAT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE REINTRODUCTION.
REINTRODUCTION. >> SO LET'S GET INTO THAT IN
>> SO LET'S GET INTO THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.
JUST A MOMENT. THE MAIN FOOD SOURCE FOR WOLVES
THE MAIN FOOD SOURCE FOR WOLVES AND SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN
AND SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN STUDYING THIS ARE SHOWING THAT
STUDYING THIS ARE SHOWING THAT IT'S ELK BUT THAT ISN'T ALWAYS
IT'S ELK BUT THAT ISN'T ALWAYS THE CASE?
THE CASE? >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. IT ISN'T ALWAYS THE CASE.
IT ISN'T ALWAYS THE CASE. YOU KNOW ORIGINALLY THEY HAD
YOU KNOW ORIGINALLY THEY HAD TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SMALLER
TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SMALLER UNDULATES BEING THEIR PREY-BASED
UNDULATES BEING THEIR PREY-BASED DEER.
DEER. THESE WOLVES HAVE ADAPTED TO ELK
THESE WOLVES HAVE ADAPTED TO ELK AND IT'S JUST GOING TO BE JUST
AND IT'S JUST GOING TO BE JUST LIKE HUMAN NATURE.
LIKE HUMAN NATURE. IT'S ANIMAL INSTINCT THAT IF
IT'S ANIMAL INSTINCT THAT IF THEY'RE HUNGRY ENOUGH THEY'LL
THEY'RE HUNGRY ENOUGH THEY'LL EAT WHATEVER IS IN FRONT OF THEM
EAT WHATEVER IS IN FRONT OF THEM SO OF COURSE CATTLE ARE A PART
SO OF COURSE CATTLE ARE A PART OF THEIR PREY BASE, BUT MORE
OF THEIR PREY BASE, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I THINK THAT IF YOU
IMPORTANTLY, I THINK THAT IF YOU LOOK AT A TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN
LOOK AT A TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN PREDATOR THAT IS ROAMING AROUND
PREDATOR THAT IS ROAMING AROUND OUT THERE, IT CAUSES STRESS
OUT THERE, IT CAUSES STRESS AMONGST THOSE LIVESTOCK.
AMONGST THOSE LIVESTOCK. SO YOU'RE TALKING SIDE EFFECTS
SO YOU'RE TALKING SIDE EFFECTS OF DECREASED WEIGHT IN MOTHER
OF DECREASED WEIGHT IN MOTHER COWS AND IN CALVES, ABORTIONS,
COWS AND IN CALVES, ABORTIONS, AND A LOT OF TIMES WOLVES JUST
AND A LOT OF TIMES WOLVES JUST LIKE TO KILL FOR SPORT BECAUSE
LIKE TO KILL FOR SPORT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT KIND OF ANIMAL THEY
THAT'S WHAT KIND OF ANIMAL THEY ARE.
ARE. >> INTERESTING.
>> INTERESTING. SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT JUST
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT JUST KILTS BUT STRESS HAVING IMPACTS.
KILTS BUT STRESS HAVING IMPACTS. OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, 2009 THE
OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, 2009 THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE FIRST
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME STARTED TO PUT MONEY
TIME STARTED TO PUT MONEY FORWARD TO HELP PAY FOR, YOU
FORWARD TO HELP PAY FOR, YOU KNOW, COMPENSATION WHEN THERE'S
KNOW, COMPENSATION WHEN THERE'S CATTLE LOSS OR SOME PREVENTION
CATTLE LOSS OR SOME PREVENTION MEASURES LIKE FENCING, SO
MEASURES LIKE FENCING, SO FOCUSING, OF COURSE, ON
FOCUSING, OF COURSE, ON PREVENTING KILLS AND THEN
PREVENTING KILLS AND THEN PAYMENT AFTER THE FACT, SO HOW
PAYMENT AFTER THE FACT, SO HOW DO YOU FEEL LIKE TO PROGRAM IS
DO YOU FEEL LIKE TO PROGRAM IS WORKING?
WORKING? IS IT WORKING?
IS IT WORKING? >> WELL, THAT PROGRAM IS PRETTY
>> WELL, THAT PROGRAM IS PRETTY MUCH GONE TO THE WAY SIDE AND
MUCH GONE TO THE WAY SIDE AND ANYBODY THAT HAS WORKED WITH
ANYBODY THAT HAS WORKED WITH THOSE TYPES OF GOVERNMENT
THOSE TYPES OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS KNOW IT ALL SOUNDS GOOD
PROGRAMS KNOW IT ALL SOUNDS GOOD ON PAPER AND REALISTICALLY WHEN
ON PAPER AND REALISTICALLY WHEN YOU GET OUT ON THE GROUND AND
YOU GET OUT ON THE GROUND AND YOU START TO TRY AND IMPLEMENT
YOU START TO TRY AND IMPLEMENT IT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO WORK.
IT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO WORK. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO GO JUMP
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO GO JUMP THROUGH THE HOOPS TO MAKE SURE
THROUGH THE HOOPS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S A BIOLOGIST OUT
THAT THERE'S A BIOLOGIST OUT THERE TO REVIEW THE KILLS AND TO
THERE TO REVIEW THE KILLS AND TO CONFIRM THEM AND SOMETIMES WE
CONFIRM THEM AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE TROUBLE GETTING THOSE FOLKS
HAVE TROUBLE GETTING THOSE FOLKS OUT THERE TO REVIEW THAT.
OUT THERE TO REVIEW THAT. MONEY IS SHORT ALL ACROSS THE
MONEY IS SHORT ALL ACROSS THE GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. I THINK EVERYBODY IS WELL AWARE
I THINK EVERYBODY IS WELL AWARE OF THAT.
OF THAT. THIS NOTION THAT THEY'RE STILL
THIS NOTION THAT THEY'RE STILL PUTTING IN ABSORB BATIVE AMOUNTS
PUTTING IN ABSORB BATIVE AMOUNTS OF FENCING, RANGE RIDING,
OF FENCING, RANGE RIDING, HAZING, ALL OF THAT JUST DOESN'T
HAZING, ALL OF THAT JUST DOESN'T EXIST TODAY.
EXIST TODAY. >> DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS THAT YOU THINK MIGHT WORK?
THAT YOU THINK MIGHT WORK? >> BOTTOM LINE IS WE'RE ALWAYS
>> BOTTOM LINE IS WE'RE ALWAYS WILLING TO COME TO THE TABLE TO
WILLING TO COME TO THE TABLE TO TALK AND DISCUSS THIS AND
TALK AND DISCUSS THIS AND CURRENTLY WE ARE AT THE TABLE.
CURRENTLY WE ARE AT THE TABLE. WE SIT ON THE RECOVERY TEAM.
WE SIT ON THE RECOVERY TEAM. WE HAVE CATTLE RANCHERS THAT SIT
WE HAVE CATTLE RANCHERS THAT SIT ON THOSE COMPENSATION COMMITTEES
ON THOSE COMPENSATION COMMITTEES TO DISCUSS HOW THAT CAN HAPPEN,
TO DISCUSS HOW THAT CAN HAPPEN, AND WE ALWAYS ARE -- WANT TO BE
AND WE ALWAYS ARE -- WANT TO BE PROACTIVE AT OUR APPROACH SO WE
PROACTIVE AT OUR APPROACH SO WE WANT TO DETER WOLVES FROM COMING
WANT TO DETER WOLVES FROM COMING INTO THE COMMUNITIES AND COMING
INTO THE COMMUNITIES AND COMING IN AND AFFECTING OUR LIVESTOCK,
IN AND AFFECTING OUR LIVESTOCK, YOU KNOW, BEFOREHAND.
YOU KNOW, BEFOREHAND. WE DON'T LIKE TO GO THROUGH THE
WE DON'T LIKE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND HAVE LIVESTOCK
PROCESS AND HAVE LIVESTOCK KILLED AND THEN HAVING TO BE
KILLED AND THEN HAVING TO BE COMPENSATED THAT WAY.
COMPENSATED THAT WAY. FURTHERMORE, EVEN THOUGH THERE
FURTHERMORE, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS -- THERE MAY BE A LEVEL OF
IS -- THERE MAY BE A LEVEL OF COMPENSATION FOR THAT COW
COMPENSATION FOR THAT COW WHATEVER MARKET PRICE IS, IT
WHATEVER MARKET PRICE IS, IT DOESN'T FIGURE IN THE FACT THAT
DOESN'T FIGURE IN THE FACT THAT NOW THAT RANCHER HAS TO GO FIND
NOW THAT RANCHER HAS TO GO FIND A REPLACEMENT COW, SPEND THAT
A REPLACEMENT COW, SPEND THAT TIME MAKING SURE IT FITS THE
TIME MAKING SURE IT FITS THE GENETICS OF THAT HERD, MAKING
GENETICS OF THAT HERD, MAKING SURE IT FITS THE GEOGRAPHIC
SURE IT FITS THE GEOGRAPHIC REGION SO IT HAS THE BEST
REGION SO IT HAS THE BEST ABILITY TO SURVIVE.
ABILITY TO SURVIVE. ALL OF THAT IS NOT CALCULATED IN
ALL OF THAT IS NOT CALCULATED IN SO IT MAKES IT REALLY DIFFICULT
SO IT MAKES IT REALLY DIFFICULT ON THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
ON THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. >> DO YOU THINK THERE'S SOME
>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S SOME POSSIBILITY OF RETAINING THAT?
POSSIBILITY OF RETAINING THAT? >> THE BEST SOLUTION IS FOR THE
>> THE BEST SOLUTION IS FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO PULL OUT,
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO PULL OUT, LEAVE WHAT IS ON THE GROUND IN
LEAVE WHAT IS ON THE GROUND IN THE HANDS OF THE STATE AND THE
THE HANDS OF THE STATE AND THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF GAME AND
ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF GAME AND FISH IS VERY CAPABLE IN HANDLING
FISH IS VERY CAPABLE IN HANDLING WHAT IS OUT THERE ON THE GROUND
WHAT IS OUT THERE ON THE GROUND AND WORK WITH WHAT IS THERE TO
AND WORK WITH WHAT IS THERE TO TRY AND BUILD THAT POPULATION
TRY AND BUILD THAT POPULATION FURTHER BUT AT THIS TIME I JUST
FURTHER BUT AT THIS TIME I JUST DON'T SEE THE FEDERAL
DON'T SEE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, U.S. FISH AND
GOVERNMENT, U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE PLAYING A
WILDLIFE SERVICE PLAYING A PROACTIVE ROLE IN REALLY HELPING
PROACTIVE ROLE IN REALLY HELPING THIS WOLF THRIVE AND SUCCEED.
THIS WOLF THRIVE AND SUCCEED. >> UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S ALL THE
>> UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.
TIME WE HAVE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
TO TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE. >> NOT A PROBLEM.
>> NOT A PROBLEM. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON. >>> THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION
>>> THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION RELEASED CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS
RELEASED CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS TODAY OUTLINING THE NATIONAL
TODAY OUTLINING THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY'S MASSIVE
SECURITY AGENCY'S MASSIVE COLLECTION OF DOMESTIC PHONE
COLLECTION OF DOMESTIC PHONE RECORDS.
RECORDS. >> THE RELEASE COMES AMID
>> THE RELEASE COMES AMID REPORTS OF A NEW NSA SPYING
REPORTS OF A NEW NSA SPYING PROGRAM ON INTERNET ACTIVITY.
PROGRAM ON INTERNET ACTIVITY. WE LOOK AT THE LATEST
WE LOOK AT THE LATEST REVELATIONS AND THE SECRET COURT
REVELATIONS AND THE SECRET COURT AT THE CENTER OF THE
AT THE CENTER OF THE CONTROVERSY.
CONTROVERSY. >> THEN BEN BERNANKE'S TENURE AS
>> THEN BEN BERNANKE'S TENURE AS FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN NEARS
FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN NEARS ITS END AS THE DEBATE OVER WHO
ITS END AS THE DEBATE OVER WHO WILL REPLACE HIM BEGINS.
WILL REPLACE HIM BEGINS. WE'LL EXAMINE HOW THAT WILL
WE'LL EXAMINE HOW THAT WILL AFFECT THE RECOVERY.
AFFECT THE RECOVERY. >>> EGYPT'S POLICE URGED THEM TO
>>> EGYPT'S POLICE URGED THEM TO TAKE ALL MEANS NECESSARY.
TAKE ALL MEANS NECESSARY. MARGARET WARNER EXPLORES THE
MARGARET WARNER EXPLORES THE POTENTIAL FOR VIOLENCE AND THE
POTENTIAL FOR VIOLENCE AND THE ACTIONS OF THE NEW MILITARY
ACTIONS OF THE NEW MILITARY RULE.
RULE. >>> AND IN INDIA CHILD LABOR IS
>>> AND IN INDIA CHILD LABOR IS OUTLAWED BUT A STAGGERING NUMBER
OUTLAWED BUT A STAGGERING NUMBER OF CHILDREN STILL TOIL AWAY.
OF CHILDREN STILL TOIL AWAY. THERE ARE EFFORTS TO CHANGE THAT
THERE ARE EFFORTS TO CHANGE THAT PRACTICE.
PRACTICE. >>> THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON
>>> THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S NEWS HOUR.
TONIGHT'S NEWS HOUR. >> ANDREW CARNEGIE ONCE SAID THE
>> ANDREW CARNEGIE ONCE SAID THE MAN WHO DIES RICH DIES
MAN WHO DIES RICH DIES DISGRACED.
DISGRACED. HE WENT TO SPENDING HIS WEALTH
HE WENT TO SPENDING HIS WEALTH ON A LIBRARY.
ON A LIBRARY. >> IT WAS A SERVICE EVERYBODY
>> IT WAS A SERVICE EVERYBODY HAD ACCESS TO.
HAD ACCESS TO. >> I'M DAVID GREEN.
>> I'M DAVID GREEN. HOW A 19th CENTURY STEEL BARON
HOW A 19th CENTURY STEEL BARON GAVE LIBRARIES THEIR HIM IN.
>>> CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOW ONE OF THE TOP CONCERNS FOR SCIENTISTS
THE TOP CONCERNS FOR SCIENTISTS AROUND THE WORLD.
AROUND THE WORLD. SOME EXPERTS, HOWEVER UKS HAVE
SOME EXPERTS, HOWEVER UKS HAVE BEEN STUDYING THIS ISSUE FOR
BEEN STUDYING THIS ISSUE FOR DECADES.
DECADES. TONIGHT WE INTRODUCE YOU TO DR.
TONIGHT WE INTRODUCE YOU TO DR. WALLY BROKER, A GEO SCIENTIST
WALLY BROKER, A GEO SCIENTIST WHO WORKS AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
WHO WORKS AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY AND WHO RECENTLY VISITED TUCSON
AND WHO RECENTLY VISITED TUCSON TO GIVE A LECTURE.
TO GIVE A LECTURE. HE'S OFTEN DESCRIBED AS AN
HE'S OFTEN DESCRIBED AS AN INTELLECTUAL GIANT IN CLIMATE
INTELLECTUAL GIANT IN CLIMATE SCIENCE.
SCIENCE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.
TODAY. I KNOW YOU'VE HAD A BUSY DAY.
I KNOW YOU'VE HAD A BUSY DAY. TALKED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.
TALKED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. I APPRECIATE YOU MAKING SOME
I APPRECIATE YOU MAKING SOME TIME TO COME IN HERE.
TIME TO COME IN HERE. SO YOU WERE ONE OF THE FIRST
SO YOU WERE ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE BACK IN THE '70s TO START
PEOPLE BACK IN THE '70s TO START SAYING, WE NEED TO BE PAYING
SAYING, WE NEED TO BE PAYING ATTENTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND
ATTENTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND HUMAN CAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.
HUMAN CAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE. HOW DID YOU GET TO THAT
HOW DID YOU GET TO THAT REALIZATION?
REALIZATION? >> WELL, I WAS NOT THE FIRST.
>> WELL, I WAS NOT THE FIRST. I MEAN, EVER SINCE THE 1950s
I MEAN, EVER SINCE THE 1950s PEOPLE WERE THINKING ABOUT IT IN
PEOPLE WERE THINKING ABOUT IT IN A SERIOUS WAY.
A SERIOUS WAY. UNTIL 1958 THERE WERE NEVER
UNTIL 1958 THERE WERE NEVER ACCURATE MEASURES OF C O2 AND
ACCURATE MEASURES OF C O2 AND THEN CHARLES DAVID CEILING WHO
THEN CHARLES DAVID CEILING WHO WAS FROM SCRIPPS STARTED THE
WAS FROM SCRIPPS STARTED THE MONITORING PROGRAM ON THE
MONITORING PROGRAM ON THE EXTINCT VOLCANO IN HAWAII AND HE
EXTINCT VOLCANO IN HAWAII AND HE SHOWED THAT, INDEED, C O2 WAS
SHOWED THAT, INDEED, C O2 WAS RISING AND HE COULD SAY THAT A
RISING AND HE COULD SAY THAT A LITTLE MORE THAN 50% OF WHAT WE
LITTLE MORE THAN 50% OF WHAT WE PRODUCED EVERY YEAR STAYED IN
PRODUCED EVERY YEAR STAYED IN THE AIR.
THE AIR. THE REST PRESUMABLY WENT INTO
THE REST PRESUMABLY WENT INTO THE OCEAN AND INTO VEGETATION.
THE OCEAN AND INTO VEGETATION. SO I WAS AWARE OF THAT BUT
SO I WAS AWARE OF THAT BUT THAT'S THE YEAR I GOT MY Ph.d.
THAT'S THE YEAR I GOT MY Ph.d. SO DURING THE NEXT LET'S SAY 13,
SO DURING THE NEXT LET'S SAY 13, 14 YEARS THERE WAS NO WARMING
14 YEARS THERE WAS NO WARMING AND YET C O2 IS GOING UP AND UP
AND YET C O2 IS GOING UP AND UP AND UP.
AND UP. BY THE WAY, IT STARTED IN 1850
BY THE WAY, IT STARTED IN 1850 WE NOW KNOW FROM AIR TRAPPED IN
WE NOW KNOW FROM AIR TRAPPED IN POLAR ICE THAT IT WAS ABOUT 280
POLAR ICE THAT IT WAS ABOUT 280 PARTS PER MILLION.
PARTS PER MILLION. WHEN KEELING'S RECORDS STARTED
WHEN KEELING'S RECORDS STARTED IN 1958 IT WAS 315.
IN 1958 IT WAS 315. IT'S NOW ABOUT 395.
IT'S NOW ABOUT 395. SO IT'S GOING UP AND GOING UP
SO IT'S GOING UP AND GOING UP EVER MORE RAPIDLY.
EVER MORE RAPIDLY. ABOUT 3 PARTS PER MILLION IN A
ABOUT 3 PARTS PER MILLION IN A COUPLE OF YEARS.
COUPLE OF YEARS. >> FOR THOSE OF US WHO DON'T
>> FOR THOSE OF US WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, PART PER
KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, PART PER MILLION, HOW --
MILLION, HOW -- >> THAT MEANS OUT OF A MILLION
>> THAT MEANS OUT OF A MILLION MOLECULES OF AIR, 395 ARE C O2.
MOLECULES OF AIR, 395 ARE C O2. THE REST ARE NITROGEN, ARGON,
THE REST ARE NITROGEN, ARGON, OTHER THINGS.
OTHER THINGS. THAT'S JUST THE CONCENTRATION IF
THAT'S JUST THE CONCENTRATION IF YOU TAKE A SAMPLE OF AIR AND YOU
YOU TAKE A SAMPLE OF AIR AND YOU HAVE A DEVICE TO MEASURE HOW
HAVE A DEVICE TO MEASURE HOW MUCH OF THAT AIR IS C O2.
MUCH OF THAT AIR IS C O2. >> AND HOW ALARMING IS THIS 300
>> AND HOW ALARMING IS THIS 300 PARTS PLUS PER MILLION?
PARTS PLUS PER MILLION? >> WELL, WHAT'S ALARMING IS THAT
>> WELL, WHAT'S ALARMING IS THAT WE'RE GETTING 85% OF OUR ENERGY
WE'RE GETTING 85% OF OUR ENERGY FROM FOSSIL FUELS.
FROM FOSSIL FUELS. IN THE YEAR 1990 THERE WERE 20
IN THE YEAR 1990 THERE WERE 20 BILLION TONS OF C O2 WERE ADDED
BILLION TONS OF C O2 WERE ADDED TO THE ATMOSPHERE.
TO THE ATMOSPHERE. LAST YEAR 32.
LAST YEAR 32. SO WE'RE NOT DECREASING THE
SO WE'RE NOT DECREASING THE AMOUNT OF C O2 THAT'S GOING IN
AMOUNT OF C O2 THAT'S GOING IN THERE, WE'RE INCREASING IT.
THERE, WE'RE INCREASING IT. AND THE FEAR IS THAT THIS
AND THE FEAR IS THAT THIS BUILDUP WILL EVENTUALLY CAUSE
BUILDUP WILL EVENTUALLY CAUSE ALL KINDS OF HAVOC ON THE PLANET
ALL KINDS OF HAVOC ON THE PLANET AND IT MAY AFFECT FOOD
AND IT MAY AFFECT FOOD PRODUCTION, SEA LEVEL, LOTS OF
PRODUCTION, SEA LEVEL, LOTS OF THINGS.
THINGS. EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE
EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE CHANGED A LITTLE BIT, AND SO
CHANGED A LITTLE BIT, AND SO IDEALLY WE WOULD GO TO OTHER
IDEALLY WE WOULD GO TO OTHER SOURCES OF ENERGY, BUT IN THE
SOURCES OF ENERGY, BUT IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THERE HAVE
LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THERE HAVE BEEN BIG DISCOVERIES OF FOSSIL
BEEN BIG DISCOVERIES OF FOSSIL FUELS, OIL AND NATURAL GAS, SO
FUELS, OIL AND NATURAL GAS, SO THAT HAS ENSURED OUR SUPPLY OF
THAT HAS ENSURED OUR SUPPLY OF THOSE AND REMAIN CHEAP.
THOSE AND REMAIN CHEAP. IF THEY STARTED TO RUN SHORT,
IF THEY STARTED TO RUN SHORT, THEY'D GO UP.
THEY'D GO UP. BUT THAT MEANS THAT NON-WIND
BUT THAT MEANS THAT NON-WIND POWER, SOLAR POWER, THEY'RE
POWER, SOLAR POWER, THEY'RE BECOMING LESS AND LESS FAVORABLE
BECOMING LESS AND LESS FAVORABLE ECONOMICALLY AND THEREFORE THE
ECONOMICALLY AND THEREFORE THE REPLACEMENT IS NOT GOING ON.
REPLACEMENT IS NOT GOING ON. SHE SAID WE CONTINUE TO GET MOST
SHE SAID WE CONTINUE TO GET MOST OF OUR ENERGY C O2 -- I MEAN
OF OUR ENERGY C O2 -- I MEAN FROM FOSSIL FUELS.
FROM FOSSIL FUELS. THAT C O2 WILL STAY IN THE
THAT C O2 WILL STAY IN THE ATMOSPHERE FOR A HUNDRED YEARS.
ATMOSPHERE FOR A HUNDRED YEARS. STAYS THERE UNTIL IT SUCKS UP BY
STAYS THERE UNTIL IT SUCKS UP BY THE OCEAN.
THE OCEAN. >> THAT'S A BETTER KWI THAT I
>> THAT'S A BETTER KWI THAT I ASKED YOU.
ASKED YOU. YOUR WORK IS DEALING WITH THE
YOUR WORK IS DEALING WITH THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THE OCEAN
INTERACTION BETWEEN THE OCEAN AND CLIMATE CHANGE?
AND CLIMATE CHANGE? >> WELL, TWO ASPECTS OF IT.
>> WELL, TWO ASPECTS OF IT. ONE WAS I WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED
ONE WAS I WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW FAST
IN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW FAST THE DEEP OCEAN IS VENTILATED.
THE DEEP OCEAN IS VENTILATED. THAT IS, HOW RAPIDLY OUR NEW
THAT IS, HOW RAPIDLY OUR NEW DEEP WATERS EXTENDING FROM THE
DEEP WATERS EXTENDING FROM THE POLAR REGIONS REPLACING OLD
POLAR REGIONS REPLACING OLD WATER THAT WAS DOWN THERE WHICH
WATER THAT WAS DOWN THERE WHICH IS THEN PUSHED UP TO THE
IS THEN PUSHED UP TO THE SURFACE, HOW LONG DOES THAT
SURFACE, HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE.
TAKE. WELL, IT TURNS OUT IT TAKES
WELL, IT TURNS OUT IT TAKES ABOUT 800 YEARS TO REPLACE ALL
ABOUT 800 YEARS TO REPLACE ALL THE WATER IN THE DEEP SEA AND SO
THE WATER IN THE DEEP SEA AND SO THAT SORT OF SETS THE TIME SCALE
THAT SORT OF SETS THE TIME SCALE FOR UPTAKE OF THE C O2 BY THE
FOR UPTAKE OF THE C O2 BY THE OCEAN.
OCEAN. EVENTUALLY IT WILL TAKE UP MUCH
EVENTUALLY IT WILL TAKE UP MUCH OF THE C O2 THAT WE'RE GOING TO
OF THE C O2 THAT WE'RE GOING TO PRODUCE BUT WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT
PRODUCE BUT WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS SO WE'LL
SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS SO WE'LL BE STUCK WITH IT FOR A LONG
BE STUCK WITH IT FOR A LONG TIME.
TIME. THE OTHER ASPECT IS THAT ICE
THE OTHER ASPECT IS THAT ICE CORES TAKEN IN GREEN LAND SHOWED
CORES TAKEN IN GREEN LAND SHOWED SOMETHING THAT NOBODY HAD
SOMETHING THAT NOBODY HAD EXPECTED, THAT THE CLIMATE OF
EXPECTED, THAT THE CLIMATE OF GREEN LAND AND IT TURNS OUT ALL
GREEN LAND AND IT TURNS OUT ALL THE WHOLE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE
THE WHOLE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE UNDERWENT SHARP WARMINGS AND
UNDERWENT SHARP WARMINGS AND COOLING DURING GLACIAL TIME THAT
COOLING DURING GLACIAL TIME THAT WERE 10 DEGREES CENTER GREAT.
WERE 10 DEGREES CENTER GREAT. THEY WERE HUGE.
THEY WERE HUGE. THE QUESTION IS WHAT IN THE HELD
THE QUESTION IS WHAT IN THE HELD COULD CAUSE THAT BECAUSE IT
COULD CAUSE THAT BECAUSE IT HAPPENED VERY QUICKLY IN A
HAPPENED VERY QUICKLY IN A DECADE.
DECADE. I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT
I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT THAT IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE -- WHAT
THAT IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE -- WHAT DO WE CALL THAT, THE DEEP WATER
DO WE CALL THAT, THE DEEP WATER PRODUCTION IN THE NORTHERN
PRODUCTION IN THE NORTHERN ATLANTIC THEN THAT WOULD DO THE
ATLANTIC THEN THAT WOULD DO THE TRICK, AND THAT WAS IN THE MID
TRICK, AND THAT WAS IN THE MID 80s.
80s. THAT'S STOOD THE TEST OF TIME.
THAT'S STOOD THE TEST OF TIME. SO WE NOW KNOW THAT THE OCEAN
SO WE NOW KNOW THAT THE OCEAN CAN DO SOME OUTRAGEOUS THINGS.
CAN DO SOME OUTRAGEOUS THINGS. WHEN IT DOES, IT HAS A STRONG
WHEN IT DOES, IT HAS A STRONG AFFECT ON THE ATMOSPHERE AND,
AFFECT ON THE ATMOSPHERE AND, HENCE, THE CLIMATE OF THE
HENCE, THE CLIMATE OF THE CONTINENTS SO THAT'S WHY I SAY
CONTINENTS SO THAT'S WHY I SAY WE'RE POKING AN ANGRY BEAST.
WE'RE POKING AN ANGRY BEAST. THE SMALLER THE POKE, THE LESS
THE SMALLER THE POKE, THE LESS LIKELY A VIOLENT REACTION, BUT
LIKELY A VIOLENT REACTION, BUT IT'S VERY SCARY BECAUSE WE HAVE
IT'S VERY SCARY BECAUSE WE HAVE NO GLOBAL PLAN OF HOW TO STOP
NO GLOBAL PLAN OF HOW TO STOP THE C O2 EMISSIONS.
THE C O2 EMISSIONS. THEY'RE GETTING BIGGER AND
THEY'RE GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER, THEY'RE NOT GETTING
BIGGER, THEY'RE NOT GETTING SMALLER AND SMALLER.
SMALLER AND SMALLER. >> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT CARBON
>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT CARBON SEQUESTRATION BECAUSE THAT'S
SEQUESTRATION BECAUSE THAT'S ANOTHER PART OF THIS PICTURE.
ANOTHER PART OF THIS PICTURE. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IS THERE HOPE IN THIS
IS THERE HOPE IN THIS TECHNOLOGY?
TECHNOLOGY? >> YES.
>> YES. I THINK IT'S ESSENTIAL WE DO
I THINK IT'S ESSENTIAL WE DO THAT.
THAT. WHETHER WE WILL OR NOT REMAINS
WHETHER WE WILL OR NOT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.
TO BE SEEN. THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO CAPTURE --
THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO CAPTURE -- RECAPTURE C O2 IN THE
RECAPTURE C O2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE.
ATMOSPHERE. ONE IS TO ACTUALLY RECAPTURE
ONE IS TO ACTUALLY RECAPTURE FROM THE ATMOSPHERE.
FROM THE ATMOSPHERE. LET AIR BLOW THROUGH SOMETHING
LET AIR BLOW THROUGH SOMETHING AND WE'LL TAKE THE C O2 OUT AS
AND WE'LL TAKE THE C O2 OUT AS THE AIR PASSES BY.
THE AIR PASSES BY. THE OTHER ONE, WHICH IS
THE OTHER ONE, WHICH IS SEEMINGLY MUCH BETTER, WILL BE
SEEMINGLY MUCH BETTER, WILL BE TO GO AT THE STACKS OF POWER
TO GO AT THE STACKS OF POWER PLANTS, NOT LET IT GET INTO THE
PLANTS, NOT LET IT GET INTO THE AIR, BUT IN EITHER CASE IF YOU
AIR, BUT IN EITHER CASE IF YOU CAPTURE IT, YOU HAVE TO DO
CAPTURE IT, YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.
SOMETHING WITH IT. AND IT'S A HUGE AMOUNT SO THE
AND IT'S A HUGE AMOUNT SO THE IDEA WOULD BE TO PRESSURIZE IT
IDEA WOULD BE TO PRESSURIZE IT AND YOU CAN MAKE C O2 INTO A
AND YOU CAN MAKE C O2 INTO A LIQUID JUST LIKE YOU CAN MAKE
LIQUID JUST LIKE YOU CAN MAKE WATER VAPOR INTO WATER.
WATER VAPOR INTO WATER. AND YOU WOULD THEN PUMP THAT C
AND YOU WOULD THEN PUMP THAT C O2 DOWN INTO SUBSURFACE
O2 DOWN INTO SUBSURFACE RESERVOIRS, SAND STONES, MAYBE
RESERVOIRS, SAND STONES, MAYBE SALT, AND THEY WOULD BE DESIGNED
SALT, AND THEY WOULD BE DESIGNED SO THAT, I MEAN, YOU WOULD
SO THAT, I MEAN, YOU WOULD CHOOSE PLACES WHEREVER THE C O2
CHOOSE PLACES WHEREVER THE C O2 WOULD BE LONG-TERM TRAFFIC.
WOULD BE LONG-TERM TRAFFIC. STAD OIL IN NORWAY HAS BEEN
STAD OIL IN NORWAY HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR 18 YEARS IN A
DOING THIS FOR 18 YEARS IN A SAND RESERVOIR BENEATH THE SEA.
SAND RESERVOIR BENEATH THE SEA. THEY CAN SEE IT SEISMICALLY SO
THEY CAN SEE IT SEISMICALLY SO THEY KNOW WHAT IT'S DOING.
THEY KNOW WHAT IT'S DOING. THAT WAS ENCOURAGING, THE FIRST
THAT WAS ENCOURAGING, THE FIRST MAJOR TEST YOU CAN STORE IT FOR
MAJOR TEST YOU CAN STORE IT FOR A LONG TIME.
A LONG TIME. >> THAT RAISES QUESTIONS FOR ME.
>> THAT RAISES QUESTIONS FOR ME. YOU'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE
YOU'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE MATERIAL THAT HAS TO BE HELD.
MATERIAL THAT HAS TO BE HELD. SO UNDERGROUND DOES IT CAUSE --
SO UNDERGROUND DOES IT CAUSE -- I'VE HEARD WHEN YOU'VE JACKED
I'VE HEARD WHEN YOU'VE JACKED LIQUIDS OR WHATEVER IT IS
LIQUIDS OR WHATEVER IT IS UNDERWATER AND YOU HAVE ISSUES
UNDERWATER AND YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH SEISMIC ACTIVITY --
WITH SEISMIC ACTIVITY -- >> WOULDN'T DO IT IN JAPAN, NO,
>> WOULDN'T DO IT IN JAPAN, NO, BUT, I MEAN, YOU WOULD DO IT IN
BUT, I MEAN, YOU WOULD DO IT IN REGIONS THAT ARE NOT HIGHLY
REGIONS THAT ARE NOT HIGHLY SEISMICALLY ACTIVE.
SEISMICALLY ACTIVE. YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE YOUR SITES,
YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE YOUR SITES, BUT I THINK THAT'S NOT A -- I
BUT I THINK THAT'S NOT A -- I MEAN, EVERY CURE WE'RE GOING TO
MEAN, EVERY CURE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IS GOING TO HAVE ITS OWN
HAVE IS GOING TO HAVE ITS OWN PROBLEMS AND SO WE HAVE TO HAVE
PROBLEMS AND SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A BALANCE AND SAY WE HAVE A
A BALANCE AND SAY WE HAVE A REALLY BIG PROBLEM WITH C O2 IN
REALLY BIG PROBLEM WITH C O2 IN THE AIR.
THE AIR. MAYBE THERE ARE SOME SMALL
MAYBE THERE ARE SOME SMALL HAZARDS OF BURYING IT BUT WE'LL
HAZARDS OF BURYING IT BUT WE'LL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THOSE BECAUSE
HAVE TO LIVE WITH THOSE BECAUSE IT'S MUCH WORSE NOT TO BURY IT.
IT'S MUCH WORSE NOT TO BURY IT. THE THING I'VE BEEN PUSHING IS
THE THING I'VE BEEN PUSHING IS THAT I THINK CAPTURING IT
THAT I THINK CAPTURING IT DIRECTLY FROM THE AIR IS BETTER
DIRECTLY FROM THE AIR IS BETTER THAN SMOKE STACKS.
THAN SMOKE STACKS. ONE THING IS THAT TAKES CARE OF
ONE THING IS THAT TAKES CARE OF AUTOMOBILES AND HOME HEATING AND
AUTOMOBILES AND HOME HEATING AND IT COULD TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING
IT COULD TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING PLUS YOU COULD DO IT ANYWHERE ON
PLUS YOU COULD DO IT ANYWHERE ON EARTH BECAUSE IF YOU PULL C O2
EARTH BECAUSE IF YOU PULL C O2 OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE, YOU CAN'T
OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE, YOU CAN'T MAKE A HOLE IN C O2.
MAKE A HOLE IN C O2. THE ATMOSPHERE MIXES TOO FAST.
THE ATMOSPHERE MIXES TOO FAST. OTHERWISE I'D BE DEAD IN NEW
OTHERWISE I'D BE DEAD IN NEW YORK CITY IF THE POLLUTANTS THAT
YORK CITY IF THE POLLUTANTS THAT WE PRODUCE THERE WEREN'T CARRIED
WE PRODUCE THERE WEREN'T CARRIED AWAY VERY RAPIDLY.
AWAY VERY RAPIDLY. FORTUNATELY THE ATMOSPHERE
FORTUNATELY THE ATMOSPHERE MIXING REALLY RAPIDLY.
MIXING REALLY RAPIDLY. >> THIS IS RESEARCH THAT YOU'RE
>> THIS IS RESEARCH THAT YOU'RE DOING NOW.
DOING NOW. ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW SOMETHING
ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD ACTUALLY
LIKE THAT COULD ACTUALLY PRACTICALLY BE PUT INTO PLACE?
PRACTICALLY BE PUT INTO PLACE? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FINANCING,
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FINANCING, TECHNOLOGY?
TECHNOLOGY? >> I LOOK AT IT THIS WAY.
>> I LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. WHEN GARBAGE GOT TO BE A REAL
WHEN GARBAGE GOT TO BE A REAL PROBLEM WE STARTED TO COLLECT
PROBLEM WE STARTED TO COLLECT IT.
IT. WHEN SEWAGE STARTED TO BE A BIG
WHEN SEWAGE STARTED TO BE A BIG PROBLEM, WE STARTED TO PROCESS,
PROBLEM, WE STARTED TO PROCESS, YOU KNOW, THE SEWAGE -- THE
YOU KNOW, THE SEWAGE -- THE WATER.
WATER. WE NOW HAVE TO REALIZE WE CAN'T
WE NOW HAVE TO REALIZE WE CAN'T USE THE ATMOSPHERE AS A C O2
USE THE ATMOSPHERE AS A C O2 GARBAGE CAN AND WE'RE GOING TO
GARBAGE CAN AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THAT.
HAVE TO DO THAT. IDEALLY AND ONE WAY OR ANOTHER
IDEALLY AND ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WE'RE GOING HAVE TO PUT A PRICE
WE'RE GOING HAVE TO PUT A PRICE ON CARMEN.
ON CARMEN. SO IF EXXON TAKES OIL OUT OF THE
SO IF EXXON TAKES OIL OUT OF THE EARTH, THEY'RE TAKING A CERTAIN
EARTH, THEY'RE TAKING A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CARBON ATOMS, THEY
NUMBER OF CARBON ATOMS, THEY HAVE TO PAY INTO SOME FUND AN
HAVE TO PAY INTO SOME FUND AN AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WOULD TAKE TO
AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WOULD TAKE TO GET THAT C O2 BACK WHEN THEY
GET THAT C O2 BACK WHEN THEY RELEASE IT.
RELEASE IT. IT MEANS IT CLOSES THE CYCLE
IT MEANS IT CLOSES THE CYCLE THAT BURNING FOSSIL FUELS IS
THAT BURNING FOSSIL FUELS IS NULL.
NULL. >> THAT'S A TOPIC A LOT OF
>> THAT'S A TOPIC A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT
PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
NOW. UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE RUNNING OUT
UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.
OF TIME. BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU BEFORE
BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU BEFORE WE CLOSE, YOU'VE ALSO LOOKED AT
WE CLOSE, YOU'VE ALSO LOOKED AT WHAT THE REPERCUSSIONS ARE ABOUT
WHAT THE REPERCUSSIONS ARE ABOUT ARIZONA.
ARIZONA. FROM EVERYTHING I'VE HEARD, OUR
FROM EVERYTHING I'VE HEARD, OUR CLIMATE MAY GET EXTREME BY
CLIMATE MAY GET EXTREME BY CLIMATE CHANGE.
CLIMATE CHANGE. >> BY EXAMPLE, IT WAS COLDER
>> BY EXAMPLE, IT WAS COLDER DURING THE GLASHAL FIELD.
DURING THE GLASHAL FIELD. THE GREAT BASIN TO THE NORTH WAS
THE GREAT BASIN TO THE NORTH WAS TWO TO THREE TIMES WHAT IT IS
TWO TO THREE TIMES WHAT IT IS NOW AND BY ANALOGY MODELS WOULD
NOW AND BY ANALOGY MODELS WOULD SAY BY WARMING THE EARTH THE
SAY BY WARMING THE EARTH THE OPPOSITE WILL BE TRUE, 2 TO 3
OPPOSITE WILL BE TRUE, 2 TO 3 DEGREES LOWER.
DEGREES LOWER. PLUS, WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT THE
PLUS, WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT THE POSITIONS OF THE TROPICAL RAIN
POSITIONS OF THE TROPICAL RAIN BELTS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO
BELTS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HEAT UP THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE
HEAT UP THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE RATHER THAN THE OPPOSITE.
RATHER THAN THE OPPOSITE. IT DRIED OUT NEAR ARIZONA.
IT DRIED OUT NEAR ARIZONA. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S --
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S -- I MEAN, THAT'S NOT A FIRM
I MEAN, THAT'S NOT A FIRM PREDICTION, OF COURSE, BECAUSE
PREDICTION, OF COURSE, BECAUSE WE'RE DOING SOMETHING A LITTLE
WE'RE DOING SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT I WOULD -- IF I
DIFFERENT, BUT I WOULD -- IF I WERE TO BET, I'D BET 8 TO 1 THAT
WERE TO BET, I'D BET 8 TO 1 THAT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. THAT'S MY OWN FEELING.
THAT'S MY OWN FEELING. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.
US TODAY. APPRECIATE YOU MAKING SOME TIME
APPRECIATE YOU MAKING SOME TIME TO COME IN.
TO COME IN.